Common Extensible Cryogenic Engine

[YodaWhat]

It seems engine start was at atmospheric pressure in a chamber -airtight- except for exhaust duct. As engine runs, supersonic exhaust flow entrains and ejects almost all air in test chamber. Only in vacuum would such a large engine be able to run with such extreme smoothness that long, skinny icicles would not break off instantly. Notice that at engine shutdown, the icicles are blown off violently, but not down exhaust duct; rather they're blown sideways into the test chamber. Ice hits lights!

[ApolloWasReal]

Was this test in a vacuum chamber?

[Eagle1Division2]

I thought they tested these in a vacuum chamber, so shouldn't liquid water have not formed? O.o

Seems kinda odd to test it in a specialized chamber like that but not a vacuum chamber :P

[callmeshane303]

Nooo the bell is COOLED with liquid hydrogen and as the BURNED gases blow past it, they condense of the surface..... hot water vapour meet super cooled engine component = water --> ice --> icicle.

[JillmanVideo]

They seriously need to get puffer protection on their mikes.

[Thesterness]

In all seriousness, wouldn't the icicles pose a possible debris hazard to the engine or other parts of the spacecraft?

[planetrob555]

@Thesterness I would say no because the nozzles are the trailing piece of the rocked. Any icicles would just fall off into the atmosphere, not hit the rocket or payload.

[Zoomer30]

This has to be the oddest engine ever made. Ice forming as it's running and it can go WAY down to 10% thrust. The SSMEs also form ice on the nozzles, but not to the extreme.

[Zoomer30]

Hypergolics are nice but VERY toxic. The RCS jets on Apollo used hypergolics, and the astronauts on Apollo Soyuz almost died when the RCS system was left on and fumes from them were sucked into the capsule.

[Kg277]

I wanna stick my dick in there..

[Zvesda]

HOLY SHIT.

Why did we cancel NASA again?

Oh right, welfare...

[matrix49A]

@Zvesda Negro thinks spending whities money to improve knowledge and advance science is yo bad.

[bushiyo2]

@matrix49A wha..?

[supressorgrid]

@matrix49A Whitey planning on going to the moon to get away from you darkies.

[overclockedamd123]

Look up methane rockets for pure epicness :D <----

[JONATHANvideoRespon]

Wondering if there where any photos on the crystalline structure of the ice crystals that cam off the rim?

[ssmNikolaev]

Другими словами вода используется как охладитель и как вторичный источник энергии от реакции водород+кислород?

[davetileguy]

Don't worry Obama will sell it to the chinese -saudis or just cancel the program.

[rainerfilm]

Its a cool engine I guess... That is all I have to say.

[Zvesda]

@rainerfilm

Oh you.

[TechnologyR0xx0rz]

This is so 1337!

[angryadrien]

-423 F?? Holy crap! We've discovered something that's colder and more combustible than a penguin fart on chilli-dog Friday.

[mackjsm]

No Way!  ICE?!?!?!?!?

[DTHRocket]

"Therefore, NASA can use this weight savings to bring a bigger spacecraft with a greater payload to the moon than with the same amount of conventional propellants."

Uh.... I thought that O2 and H2 WERE conventional propellants! What's new?

[Ronsmytheiii]

@DTHRocket : Lunar landers have not used hydrolox engines, until now only used hypergolics

[gui123dias]

@Ronsmytheiii what?

[v12tommy]

@Ronsmytheiii The use of hypergolics is a safety one. The space shuttle uses H2 and O2 for the shuttle main engines because they are not used in orbit and are started on the ground. The issue with using non-hypergolic fuels is that they need to be started somehow, and if the system fails you are screwed. On the other hand, with hypergolic fuels, when the two components hit each other, they automatically ignite. I don't think the non-use is a weight or money factor, but rather a safety one.

[ajshea]

@DTHRocket The advantage of hypergolics is simplicity and absolute reliability - all you have to do is mix them together and you get a bang. hydrolox engines require lots of complicated parts that have to perform perfectly every time. The SSME is the most complex piece of high engineering in the world (IIRC). Its hard to believe that the weight tradeoff of the more complex engine on top of the reliability tradeoff are worth it.

[TheAlleycat9477]

Hydrogen and oxygen fuel burn in the rocket it makes water da! The nozzle is cooled by liquid oxygen which is very cold

[xytronite]

Is that really as quiet as it sounds?

[AGrandt]

@xytronite I have no idea, but the fact alone that the icicles could grow as they did, suggests that the engine is running extremely smoothly. Heavy vibrations would probably have snapped them off in an instant, as happened when they turned the engine off.

[highvoltagefeathers]

@xytronite not even close :P rockets are loud, unless your in space.

[R5H4D0W]

the icicles is not unlike a frozen beard of a Canadian guy in winter, the fuel circuit loops over the nozzle first before going into the turbos who feeds the fuel excited by heat gain into the combustion chamber. While the inner portion of the nozzle may be red hot the outside of the nozzle is constantly being fed by new fuel slurry that is absorbing heat as it gasifies...so what happens when you blow steam on a icy condenser? voila :)

[angryadrien]

@R5H4D0W Also, the heat shield tiles on the spacecraft can be heated to over 5,000 degrees and within a second of removing the heat source, you can touch the tile with your hands.

[MadMichigander1313]

@angryadrien

Actually, the silica tiles on the shuttle can be handled bare handed only on the edges. The flat surfaces would still be hot enough to burn the flesh off your fingers.

[angryadrien]

@MadMichigander1313 the demo I watched didn't differentiate between the edges and the flat surface. it all reacted the same.

[GeneralKenobiSIYE]

@MadMichigander1313 Learned that on Bill Ny the Science guy!!

[emerychandler]

why yall talking about religion?????????this has nothing to do with it, ya i have my beliefs but this is for astronauticle engineering, not religion, plz stop.

nasa way to go keep building them stronger, faster, and more fuel efficent!

[RoboTekno]

It creates icicles because when you mix bad ass and awesome, you get super cool.

[Eagle1Division2]

@RoboTekno :D

[daywalker81]

Like the engines in Alien!

[maco10810]

When you get old and die your Soul leaves your body - then you will see that there is life after death - but sadly there is a thing called the second death - its when those who didnt have Faith are spiritually deleted - the word Hell comes from the word Grave it means a hole in the ground - death - the second death when you will either continue to live for ever or be permanently deleted imagine the look on your face when you see that.

[amourdutigre]

@maco10810

I find that the Abrahamic religions to be the most arogant things on earth. Guess that is why I am a Buddhist. I find your comments repugnant. Believe what you will and be blessed. Just keep it to yourself, thankyou.

ADT

[MaxwellForce]

Was that ice forming at the end or what?? and if so, how is that possibal??

[ismokeot420420]

damn were alot smarter than we give ourselves credit for

[AuburnLaserLab]

The reason water ice is generated at the nozzle exit is due to three factors: First, the major combustion byproduct of LOX and LH2 is water, H20. Secondly, The large area ratio of the nozzle, which is optimized for vacuum conditions, actually results in drastic cooling of the exhaust gases. Finally, the use of propellant for nozzle cooling results in a exceptionally cold nozzle wall, where ice can form.

[MAR108]

awesome blue streak!!!

[rjholling]

Seems kind of silly to use this engine for a lunar landing. For anything going to or from the lunar surface you want absolute reliability which is something that H2/LOX engines do not provide. In Apollo they used a hyperglycolic engine and right for doing so because the fuels react on contact. Imagine how horrible it would have been if Neil and Buzz were stranded on the moon because they used a cryo engine that failed to ignite. It would have killed the space program.

[Vad555]

Safest underground in the bunker...

H ** 2 and O ** 2 give the maximum specific impulse at minimum weight among chemical rockets.

[himoroyden]

That can be justified by reliability and safety analysis. But double the critical function s will increase the weight...

[Membrane556]

The hypergollic OME from the shuttle is probably a better choice as far as reliability followed by the pressure fed Kero LOX Kestrel off Falcon 1.

Though the hydrogen engine is in the LSAM for two reasons one Ares I can't do it's job so LOI is moved to Altair and they think someday they could refuel the lander via ISRU.

Though by the time you got ISRU on the level to refuel a spacecraft you would not be flying Altair or Orion any more as both vehicles would have long since been retired.

[HAL11000]

The ascent module will still use hypergolic fuels; which would provide reliable abort modes during landing.

[Membrane556]

@HAL11000

The OME from the shuttle was baseline though Altair has been defunded while they decide what route the space program is to take.

The Ares I and V vehicles will likely be canceled and replace with cheaper LVs which will impact the over all architecture.

BTW this is not the first time this has happened the Apollo went from Nova to Saturn and the Shuttle went though extensive changes during their development.

[HAL11000]

@Membrane556

I'm aware of the developments, thanks. I wouldn't loose any seep over the cancellation of Ares I & V; An even more shuttle derived heavy lift launch vehicle would be better for the agency.

[A86]

Thanks for explaining this! I saw this video and I always wondered "How the heck is this engine creating ice? Isn't the exhaust thousands of degrees?"

Excellent work NASA. Glad to hear they've created a more powerful engine with lighter fuel.

[blablubb12345]

They didn't "create" a new engine. It's just a RL-10 with deep throttle capabilities below 10% of it's rated thrust as needed for the new lunar lander.

[A86]

Yes, that was a bad word for me to use. I already know about this engine, what I meant to say is that it's good they've created a new variation of this engine that is useful for landing.

[insAneTunA]

yeah, I have one of those in my shed, I don't use it a lot though. But so once in a while I take it out for a spin.

[Membrane556]

@blablubb12345

Well a little more then that look closer at the nozzle. The radiatively cooled nozzle extension found on the RL10B-2 is not present and the regen cooled nozzle appears to have been extended.

The engine appears to have been reworked considerably on the nozzle end.

[callsignDEVIL11]

SCIENCE!!!

[apollosaturn5]

I think the engine test was performed in a "vacuum" test chamber in order to simulate upper stage engine conditions. So there was little air to transfer heat from the engine. The engine exhaust produces a vacuum effect, so all the heat goes out to the exit. Any air in the chamber should be cold enough to avoid melting the ice.

[Goldenrod636]

Can you kill somebody by dumping liquid hydrogen on them?

[Mendicci]

Definitely.

[furiousharry]

no u couldnt

[liquidoxygen0]

Goldenrod: It is possible. Just touching a liquid or any other element as cold as liquid hydrogen is enough to give the contacting body part instant frostbite.

[Igotnogod]

@liquidoxygen0 that is not true.



[gtq838]

depends how much and how fast they get it off of them. I would say if you were to jump into a bath of it you would have about 2 seconds to get out and get dry and start warming up before death by hypothermia. but if we are talking about like a 5 gallon pale being thrown on somebody I would have to say severe frost bite were the clothes meet the body because it would trap the liquid in them.

so yes it can definitely kill you but if you are careful you can touch it very quickly

[Th1s1sR3z0r]

Lol they wont believe in living on mars xD its against their religion lol

[PalomarJack]

Oh, so I'm an exception, then. I'd drop anything I'm doing just for 2 hour ride to space, would you? "No, too scary, if man were meant to fly we'd have wings." "It's a waste of money that should be used to feed the homeless (Useless, lazy, selfish bums that depend on others instead of themselves)." No, I'd say it's most likely against Atheist doctrine more that any other.

You have a nice day.

[PalomarJack]

You ungrateful little shit, if it weren't for all those "evil" religious people that came before you, you wouldn't be here. think before you speak, Johnson.

[shizzle5150]

I love it when people make outlandish statements and present them as facts, especially when they throw in a little vulgar name calling.  Thanks for demonstrating one of the reasons why I said send atheists on space travel missions.

[Oishasan]

@shizzle5150 LMAO!!! best comment ever!!!

[maco10810]

@shizzle5150  you idiot - your brain is the size of a pea - but you make clever comments - get educated - you sack of shit

[shizzle5150]

@maco10810 You keep looking to god for help, I'll look to humanity and the stars. Keep up the canard development, The almost stall free aspect is a great one. Also you don't know shit about my education, I'll thank you kindly not to be a douche bag. In the end I think Sagan said it best, there is no sign help will come from above to save us from ourselves. Fuck off religious tool.

[ammanninox]

@shizzle5150 Right on sorry I am a year late with this comment nevertheless I also am so tired of this offensive religious crap. Did you know that in fact it was man who created a god in his likeness? Because only man could invent such a miserable, revengeful being who has nothing better to do than create men and then a hell where to send them if they do not adore him.

The immense beauty of creation goes so far beyond anything these morons will ever see if they only open the eyes heaven is here

[stonerj0e]

@shizzle5150 the atheists will have the burden of greed and fear and self serving interests . but oh well . they won't last very long anyway !

[saintrobbie375]

@stonerj0e I'm an atheist and find your opinion a generalization and mis-informed. I have no issues with people that are religious. I only have an issue with the people who are religious and push their beliefs on me and tell me that after I die that I will be going to a place I don't believe in anyways.

[neogastropoda1]

its good how may people give you thumbs up, couldnt agree more. OR we could take religous ppl and release them into the vaccum of space lol

[y2kcobrar]

@shizzle5150

Don't feed the troll people (lookin at you Shizzle)

There was no reason to bring religion into the comments of this video to begin with. Everyone knows that nobody can agree on it.

Thanks for stirring people up. Half these comments should be deleted.

[gabydewilde]

fake!

[taliban0king]

so wuz ur mom in bed.

[PalomarJack]

Please Einstein, enlighten us how it's fake, why NASA would waste that much money to fake it and, to what end. We wait with baited breath your postulations of life, the Universe and a couple of other things.

[DG121480]

Industrial strength Snow Cone maker!

[Hekynn]

That looks sooo freaking cool! I hope they get this on the new fleet of Space Shuttles :D

[maglight117]

i need one at school for ac

[Dutchdrummer99]

Cool. Good Job Americans. I hope European bureaucrats will someday start investing some serious money in ESA and the European Space Industry. Ariana and Galileo and ATV are cool but with only 3 billion Euro each year ESA is no match with NASA. The American Bureaucrats don`t seem so afraid to spend their money.

[tjgame2]

Thats like a monster hho torch. Go NASA

[jdcmusicman]

I agree ....

[tjgame2]

The flashback at the end , man.

[EtaCarinaez]

Hopefully the gastanks don't blow up and kill everyone on the rocket (or satellites or whatever you're putting in there).

Good to see technology leaping forward. :p

[DjiXas]

Anyone got in HD?

[kittypie070]

That really is beautiful tech.

The NASA boys don't build 'em for looks, but ohh boy that was a whole darn bag of eye candy.

[redstone1963]

Great post!Thanks for the vid.

[lg221]

Thanks for uploading, it in my PC could not see it from the official website of NASA, thank you very much, greetings from Mexico

[tittysmithy]

I feel like saying this is a fake but my people are telling me this actually works/is real

[robbedoes1985]

why do you think it is fake? vaporising liquid oxy and hydro freezes like hell,i believe drag engines that use methanol or alcohol stay quite cool to, because of the vaporising of the fuel(but i im not sure)

[rglioybrra]

crazy

[JephN]

Very interesting.

[TheToFu]

AMMOUNT OF AWESOME IS OVERLOAD.