Blood Omen2 is impossible because although Raziel goes back in time and puts Janos' heart back, Janos must die or else Mortanius can not create Kain with his heart.
Janos is dead when Kain is created... then Raziel tears the heart from Kain's chest to put it back and raise Janos. The Kain missing the heart is the Kain from the future, so... that particular point is invalid.
Yes but then Janos' Cannot be alive 200 years after Blood Omen 1 because his heart was removed to make Kain. Raziel puts his heart back in before this and it must somehow be removed again.
His heart was removed when he was killed by Sarafan Raziel, and taken to the Sarafan Stronghold. Raziel (the soul-devouring version) went to retrieve it, but never did - he killed Sarafan Raziel, was saved from the Reaver by Kain, and slipped into the spectral realm until the start of Defiance. So the Heart of Darkness is (at that point) still in the Sarafan Stronghold, where Mortanius can retrieve it and make Kain. Later, Raziel takes it out of Kain to raise Janos, who stays alive till BO2.
And therein lies one of the major incongruities. The Blood Omen 2 defenders will say that we never actually saw Moebius killing him in Defiance, and maybe he didn't die at all, escaped or whatever, but really, I think it's more likely caused by poor communication and writing. Blood Omen 2 wasn't written by Amy Hennig (who wrote the other 4) and as such, incongruities are bound to happen.
Well what about when he Vorador dies in Blood Omen 1. What do Blood Omen 2 defenders say happened then " That might not be his real head they're holding."
Ah, but events change between Blood Omen 1 and Defiance - we see proof of this: in Blood Omen 1, Moebius kills Vorador, then Kain kills Moebius, then Mortanius contacts Kain and meets him at the Pillars for the final confrontation. In Defiance, Raziel finds Mortanius giving his speech to Kain before heading to the Pillars to meet him - then afterwards, Raziel meets Moebius in Vorador's Mansion - if events were identical, Moebius would be dead by then.
@Joudas it is an error they made with Mortanius speech and Mobius in the mansion, they admitted it that it whas an oversight and what happend in Defiance happend in Blood Omen 1, only u dint see those things as young Kain exept Moebius telling him hi whil die (in Blood Omen 1)
@Joudas Amy Hennig did not write the original Blood Omen, Dennis Dyack of Silicon Knights was probably its main writer. Amy is simply the author of the Soul Reaver trilogy (also encompassing Defiancein a way) which focuses on Raziel as the main protagonist, not Kain
It is removed in 500 before Kain from Sarafan-Raziel - Janos is dead now. From 500 b.K. till 30a.K. hidden by the Sarafans. 30a.K. Mortanius takes the heart and puts it into Kain. It is IN Kain from 30 a.K. till the evenets of SR1 (with BO2-events happening to Kain ans so on) then SR1 Kain goes back in time finally bakc to 30a.K. where Raziel removes it and puts it back into Janos Janos now lives. Janos gets thrown into the demon realm in the end of BO2
Interesting. All the centuries Kain has put into changing his and the worlds fate, and rewriting history and yet this is the first time he and the chief manipulator he seeks to overcome meet. All that time and all that fooling with Mobius time machines and he never once found out about the Elder God.
im a bit stuck in the game. i got the balance emblem final part "time". there is a portal when i want to go back. its too high for me to reach. how could i get there? that portal is in elemental power of air room. please help
The Elder God claims that it was Kain who made Raziel what he is, but in the first game he clearly states that he himself granted him the powers Raziel posses and which would make him the power behind the Soul Reaver. So who made Raziel the Soul Reaver now? The Elder God, Kain or was Raziel born to become a Soul Reaver, after he died a second time in the Vortex? It's all very confusing.
you might want to check the history of Nosgoth again. Blood Omen 2 does not happen during or after Defiance. I own all of the games and have played them in chronological order. If you want to know the true meaning of the time-line, the look it up because I am not explaining it here.
False. The Defiance storyline 'enables' BO2. In BO2, the Hylden Lord is free and is in possession of Janos Audron - this occurs near the end of Defiance, and is essentially the main plotline in BO2. Therefore we can assume that it occurs after that point in Defiance, else Janos would be either still 'dead', or with Raziel.
But, if Kain and Raziel never went back in time, BO2 wouldn't have happened either. Essentially, we are both correct and wrong. It's not on an alternate timeline, but it occurs because of the actions of BO2.
BO2 is what would happen if Kain didn't travel throught time in BO1. That's why vorador still lived, there were more vampires, and why kain had an army.
It'd be great if Tony Jay was cast as Unicron if they were ever going to make another cartoon CGI movie of Transformers. Too bad he is gone now. RIP Tony Jay and Orson Welles.
you know the ending of LOK:Defiance leaves an opening for another game and personally I want another one just so I can find out the ending and all the other secrets of the Hylden and Vampires!
More like timeline-wise. story-wise it's even before the first Soul Reaver. But then, all the events from BO2 were 'created' in SR2 when Kain saved Raziel from the Reaver.
Blood Omen 2 is the re-written history that raziel "see's behind Kain's eyes" at the end of Soul Reaver 2, otherwise there wouldn't be the mention of the Hylden at the end of Soul Reaver 2, if they had never been in contact with them knowingly before Blood Omen 2 and Defiance.
What doesn´t realy make sense lies in the spring of history. In LoK history is like a circle. Like the fact that Raziel is born, he get´s killed, is revived by kain, killed again and then he kills himself. The just killed raziel goes through the same procedure and so on. But at some point history should have a start logicaly. And if that is true Raziel would be born but the Soul Reaver raziel would not exist yet thus he would not be killed.Thats the only point i don´t get.
That's complicated: in the original timeline Raziel killed the old Kain un the chapel of William the Just because he could not resist the pull of the reaver. So in 500 before Kain he kills his former seld and is then absorbed into the Blood Reaver creating the Soul Reaver! the story THEN goes on in the circle but as the resurrected Raziel travels back in time to 0 b.K. he does NOT KILL Kain thus creating a NEW TIMELINE. So it makes sense afterall.
Raziel was first human, born as any human is. He was then killed (by his own hand, in a beautifully ironic scene in SR2), and Kain resurrected him as a vampire (making Kain his maker). Kain later casts him into the Abyss, where he is effectively killed a second time, and the Elder God (he claims) resurrected him as what he is now. So they both made him, technically.
That could be the case, but it could be a matter of convenience for that Vile Elder God. Razial's theory is that the Elder God had marely found him and tricked him into thinking He created Razial's new form. Seems possible, and very much like something that manipulator would do. Why else would Raziel still have free will?
Blood Omen2 is impossible because although Raziel goes back in time and puts Janos' heart back, Janos must die or else Mortanius can not create Kain with his heart.
frajo99 2 years ago
Janos is dead when Kain is created... then Raziel tears the heart from Kain's chest to put it back and raise Janos. The Kain missing the heart is the Kain from the future, so... that particular point is invalid.
Joudas 2 years ago
Yes but then Janos' Cannot be alive 200 years after Blood Omen 1 because his heart was removed to make Kain. Raziel puts his heart back in before this and it must somehow be removed again.
frajo99 2 years ago
His heart was removed when he was killed by Sarafan Raziel, and taken to the Sarafan Stronghold. Raziel (the soul-devouring version) went to retrieve it, but never did - he killed Sarafan Raziel, was saved from the Reaver by Kain, and slipped into the spectral realm until the start of Defiance. So the Heart of Darkness is (at that point) still in the Sarafan Stronghold, where Mortanius can retrieve it and make Kain. Later, Raziel takes it out of Kain to raise Janos, who stays alive till BO2.
Joudas 2 years ago
Oh I suppose that makes sense, but it still doesn't explain how Vorador is alive.
frajo99 2 years ago
And therein lies one of the major incongruities. The Blood Omen 2 defenders will say that we never actually saw Moebius killing him in Defiance, and maybe he didn't die at all, escaped or whatever, but really, I think it's more likely caused by poor communication and writing. Blood Omen 2 wasn't written by Amy Hennig (who wrote the other 4) and as such, incongruities are bound to happen.
Joudas 2 years ago
Well what about when he Vorador dies in Blood Omen 1. What do Blood Omen 2 defenders say happened then " That might not be his real head they're holding."
frajo99 2 years ago
Ah, but events change between Blood Omen 1 and Defiance - we see proof of this: in Blood Omen 1, Moebius kills Vorador, then Kain kills Moebius, then Mortanius contacts Kain and meets him at the Pillars for the final confrontation. In Defiance, Raziel finds Mortanius giving his speech to Kain before heading to the Pillars to meet him - then afterwards, Raziel meets Moebius in Vorador's Mansion - if events were identical, Moebius would be dead by then.
Joudas 2 years ago
@Joudas it is an error they made with Mortanius speech and Mobius in the mansion, they admitted it that it whas an oversight and what happend in Defiance happend in Blood Omen 1, only u dint see those things as young Kain exept Moebius telling him hi whil die (in Blood Omen 1)
RobinJanssenBelgium 1 year ago
@Joudas Amy Hennig did not write the original Blood Omen, Dennis Dyack of Silicon Knights was probably its main writer. Amy is simply the author of the Soul Reaver trilogy (also encompassing Defiancein a way) which focuses on Raziel as the main protagonist, not Kain
GGMMPP 1 year ago
The story of Janos' heart goes like this:
It is removed in 500 before Kain from Sarafan-Raziel - Janos is dead now. From 500 b.K. till 30a.K. hidden by the Sarafans. 30a.K. Mortanius takes the heart and puts it into Kain. It is IN Kain from 30 a.K. till the evenets of SR1 (with BO2-events happening to Kain ans so on) then SR1 Kain goes back in time finally bakc to 30a.K. where Raziel removes it and puts it back into Janos Janos now lives. Janos gets thrown into the demon realm in the end of BO2
yozkopf3000 2 years ago
Lord, my head hurts!
XD
lonelysith66 2 years ago
i cba explaining but if you have a big long think about it it works out. all time travel shit, took me ages to get my head round it.
Matty85uk 2 years ago
Interesting. All the centuries Kain has put into changing his and the worlds fate, and rewriting history and yet this is the first time he and the chief manipulator he seeks to overcome meet. All that time and all that fooling with Mobius time machines and he never once found out about the Elder God.
cartoonglutton326 2 years ago
im a bit stuck in the game. i got the balance emblem final part "time". there is a portal when i want to go back. its too high for me to reach. how could i get there? that portal is in elemental power of air room. please help
Hents33 3 years ago
The Elder God claims that it was Kain who made Raziel what he is, but in the first game he clearly states that he himself granted him the powers Raziel posses and which would make him the power behind the Soul Reaver. So who made Raziel the Soul Reaver now? The Elder God, Kain or was Raziel born to become a Soul Reaver, after he died a second time in the Vortex? It's all very confusing.
trustno1 3 years ago
you might want to check the history of Nosgoth again. Blood Omen 2 does not happen during or after Defiance. I own all of the games and have played them in chronological order. If you want to know the true meaning of the time-line, the look it up because I am not explaining it here.
LordBahaii 3 years ago 2
Blood Omen 2 happens Parallel to the timeline of
Defiance, as the actions of Defiance unravel.
Skaflar 3 years ago
False. The Defiance storyline 'enables' BO2. In BO2, the Hylden Lord is free and is in possession of Janos Audron - this occurs near the end of Defiance, and is essentially the main plotline in BO2. Therefore we can assume that it occurs after that point in Defiance, else Janos would be either still 'dead', or with Raziel.
Joudas 3 years ago
But, if Kain and Raziel never went back in time, BO2 wouldn't have happened either. Essentially, we are both correct and wrong. It's not on an alternate timeline, but it occurs because of the actions of BO2.
Skaflar 3 years ago
BO2 is what would happen if Kain didn't travel throught time in BO1. That's why vorador still lived, there were more vampires, and why kain had an army.
bteg 3 years ago
It'd be great if Tony Jay was cast as Unicron if they were ever going to make another cartoon CGI movie of Transformers. Too bad he is gone now. RIP Tony Jay and Orson Welles.
bobcad82 4 years ago 2
you know the ending of LOK:Defiance leaves an opening for another game and personally I want another one just so I can find out the ending and all the other secrets of the Hylden and Vampires!
pkfreevampirehunter 4 years ago 2
Blood Omen 2 comes after Defiance story-wise.
Joudas 4 years ago
Tru.
pkfreevampirehunter 4 years ago
If anything else could be made it would be Blood Omen 3.
9Bman0 3 years ago
More like timeline-wise. story-wise it's even before the first Soul Reaver. But then, all the events from BO2 were 'created' in SR2 when Kain saved Raziel from the Reaver.
KatonRyu 3 years ago
Story-wise, it's the last one in the series. The events in Defiance have to occur before Blood Omen 2 is possible.
Joudas 3 years ago
Blood Omen 2 is the re-written history that raziel "see's behind Kain's eyes" at the end of Soul Reaver 2, otherwise there wouldn't be the mention of the Hylden at the end of Soul Reaver 2, if they had never been in contact with them knowingly before Blood Omen 2 and Defiance.
minib32 3 years ago
hey are they gonna make a sequal for this on the next gen consoles because im dying for a sequal
luv2skate93 2 years ago
Would be nice, but to my knowledge there's no definite word on that yet.
Joudas 2 years ago
What doesn´t realy make sense lies in the spring of history. In LoK history is like a circle. Like the fact that Raziel is born, he get´s killed, is revived by kain, killed again and then he kills himself. The just killed raziel goes through the same procedure and so on. But at some point history should have a start logicaly. And if that is true Raziel would be born but the Soul Reaver raziel would not exist yet thus he would not be killed.Thats the only point i don´t get.
10211111 4 years ago
That's complicated: in the original timeline Raziel killed the old Kain un the chapel of William the Just because he could not resist the pull of the reaver. So in 500 before Kain he kills his former seld and is then absorbed into the Blood Reaver creating the Soul Reaver! the story THEN goes on in the circle but as the resurrected Raziel travels back in time to 0 b.K. he does NOT KILL Kain thus creating a NEW TIMELINE. So it makes sense afterall.
yozkopf3000 2 years ago
I've never heard of that "original" timeline. Do you have a link of some kind?
If true, I do get the picture though. But I've got to give it to them... These guys know how to make a good plot!
Love LoK!
10211111 2 years ago
There are several unofficial sources for the different timelines...
I somehow can not post a link here - it does not function... but you may google it Legacy of Kain + timeline or something like that
to understand it you should also look up the cutscene from SR2 in which Raziel meets Kain in Williams chapel. Kain does explain it:
"history abhors a paradox, Raziel. Even now the time stream strains the diverted self finding a ITS OLD COURSE BLOCKED by your refusal to destroy me"
yozkopf3000 2 years ago
Ahh, yes. Now that you say it, your right. Thanks alot!
10211111 2 years ago
Raziel was first human, born as any human is. He was then killed (by his own hand, in a beautifully ironic scene in SR2), and Kain resurrected him as a vampire (making Kain his maker). Kain later casts him into the Abyss, where he is effectively killed a second time, and the Elder God (he claims) resurrected him as what he is now. So they both made him, technically.
Joudas 5 years ago
That could be the case, but it could be a matter of convenience for that Vile Elder God. Razial's theory is that the Elder God had marely found him and tricked him into thinking He created Razial's new form. Seems possible, and very much like something that manipulator would do. Why else would Raziel still have free will?
vguyver2 4 years ago
Yeah, cthulhu is such a bastard. Want a little wasabi to go with that?
NemoPawn 5 years ago
*eye twitches*BAD SQUID! that's it...I'm getting the sushi knives out....
Ryochii 5 years ago