The Last Governor 1: A Democratic Time-Bomb, part 1 of 7

[ripcurl456]

weird coincidence...i'm from bath, conservative are useless now, we have don foster liberal for years..

[YotJoey]

Indeed, Patten is one of our best govenors, and we can't forget him, but we can't dismiss China's economic contribution to Hong Kong's development, as well as China's promise in its principles of "one country, two systems" formula. I think now people in Hong Kong still enjoys the autonomy and freedoms as it does during the British rules, and that Hong Kong has risen to a great International status as well as importance by China's rapid growth

[therepublicofHK]

1.) I agree that things are slightly better than expected economically, indeed CEPA has been mutually beneficial (even a little in HKs favour). And, with the exception of the right of abode issue, China has abided by the JD & Basic Law. I must disagree that HK's international status was purely a result of China's growth, but it was certainly a contributing factor.

[therepublicofHK]

2.) However, I could not imagine China not forging closer ties with HK, esp in the absence of democratic reform. Even if HK were still under British rule or even independent, it would not make sense, politically or economically, for a very relativist Chinese govt not to do so. After all, we still have much to offer each other.

[therepublicofHK]

3.) But that's not where the problem lies. Under the UK, HK's cultural integrity, personal liberties and democratic progress were improving. Under China all have fallen backwards. On identity; we have felt pressure from Beijing for blind nationalism, our pro-democratic lawmakers threatened, Yeung Kwong, a leftist terrorist, given the Grand Bauhinia Medal. Told we have 'no residual power', calls for greater incorporation into China, even suggestions that HK & Shenzhen merge.

[therepublicofHK]

4.) As for democratic progress, frankly, it will be unlikely that we will ever get to choose our CE unless the candidates have been vetted by Beijing, as for Legco, unless functional constituencies are abolished it remains a rubber stamp. On personal freedoms; Article 23 was proposed and only withdrawn after 500,000 protesters demanded it and then only after the LP withdrew support

[therepublicofHK]

5.) Never under the UK has our way of life been so under siege. I say that not to praise Britain as much as it is to show what our future holds. We are a people worth defending, not necessarily from bullets, but from apathy and Beijing, whose agenda is cultural hegemony over HK, I believe the fight is on, not for our wallets, but for who we are as a distinct people and whether we will be recognisable after 2047 or even sooner

[YotJoey]

But I believe as new generation of leaders takes leadership in China, they will respect Hong Kong's cultural intergrity and political more, but before they can do that, they need to trust the reformers in Hong Kong are not Chen Shui Bien style agitators, and the legco election this year shows that Hong Kongers are not willing to have agitators like "long hair" to run the territory. Yes, reforms are good, but we can't afford too much agitation.

[therepublicofHK]

1.1.) Indeed an excellent point and the standard view in HK. But allow me to present another POV: Since the Pragmatists, headed by Deng, won the power struggle over the Maoists, we have seen the successive leaderships of China become more relativist in the approach to problems. e.g. De facto but not de jure Taiwan independence, socialist market economy alongside nationalism, & other contradictions.

[therepublicofHK]

1.2.)The CCP can justify such contradictions provided 1.) It is conducive to long term prosperity 2.) There is a face-saving explanation for such policy, even if it is a form of doublethink. Today the CCP's power no longer grows not only out the barrel of a gun but also in its ability to provide growth, and hence hope to many millions that are sadly still poor and upon whose backs ride revolution. Therefore, stability is the coveted prize, as it is the environment where economic growth occurs

[therepublicofHK]

1.3.) As pragmatists covets stability above all else, the CCP and local cronies would unlikely impose upon us something that we would angrily reject. The 2003 protest was a clear example of that, as it firmly stopped article 23 when our lawmakers didn't. But Beijing must always have the appearance of legitimacy, hence Tung was blamed, even though he was essentially appointed by Jiang

[therepublicofHK]

1.4.) Your point about Long Hair is well taken (I prefer Emily Lau!), but his election is immaterial if half of LEGCO is appointed, China can ignore him if every motion he proposes is defeated by appointees. So if our modest democratic institutions fail to deliver reform were else could we turn but to the streets, as we so successfully did in 2003? There is no evidence to warrant the faith so many put in China's benevolence towards democratic progress in HK.

[therepublicofHK]

1.5.) I fear that if we remain passive, China, seeking cultural hegemony over us (which, in their eyes equals stability), will simply take that as our acceptance (or apathy) and implement through local channels whatever they want. Likely a facade of democracy that will always favour China rather than Hong Kong. Such a scenario is hardly democracy and is not worth the effort of even keeping quite.

[therepublicofHK]

1.6.) At worst, should we be truly threatened by China, our power lies in our ability to severely dent China's growth (hence the CCPs power base), the instability our collective anger can cause and the effect that could inspire on other regions in China, and international trade & relations. Compared to other regions in China, here reprisals against opposition have consequences. I do not advocate this, but it is a collective 'panic button' we can press.

[therepublicofHK]

1.7.) I feel we must know our strengths & articulate the consequences to Beijing of imposing the unacceptable. We, not China, should be responsible in determining our future. Then, from a position of strength, a truly lasting future can be negotiated that can suit us both. Provided we give China opportunity to rationalise our new position, I'm sure they would agree. After all, it would be the pragmatic thing to do and any mistakes made would be our burden, not theirs.

[therepublicofHK]

1.8.) On the LEGCO election; Anson Chan's victory was a thankfully foregone conclusion, but HK's former No.2 on side with the Pan-demos is a greater upset to China than a Trotskyist (Long hair) as it lends legitimacy to the cause. On the Dist. Council elections, commentators agree there were many factors for the pro-Beijing victory, but a change in ideology was not one of them. Ultimately, LEGCO's importance is more than the Dist Council as it is the law making body of HK

[therepublicofHK]

1.9.) Finally, I apologise for so lengthy a reply, unfortunately youtube gives me little other choice. If you made it this far I thank you kindly for reading and your discussion. I look forward to more. If I may I would like to suggest a book: DE FACTO FEDERALISM IN CHINA: REFORMS AND DYNAMICS OF CENTRAL-LOCAL RELATIONS by Zheng Yongnian

[e53e54]

interesting documentary film that i can see in here. thanks.

[therepublicofHK]

Not at all, glad you enjoyed it

[ka6442]

我想睇左好耐

[therepublicofHK]

我想睇左好耐 (Translation: I want to see this long time ago). Mo man tai! (Translation: no problem) Enjoy!

[lamkingyan]

How can I purchase a copy of this documentary?

[therepublicofHK]

Sorry, but I haven't been able to find DVD or video copies anywhere, that was the reason I posted my old videotaped copies here. The only thing I can suggest is going to "download you tube videos dot com" (sorry youtube won't let me post links here) and follow the instructions (you'll need the media player VLC, available at "videolan dot org", to watch the download movies)

[cjk91]

I've managed to find it on VHS on a BBC education website. However, £625 (and I'm not joking), seems a bit steep.

[therepublicofHK]

£625?! Thank god for youtube!

[dirtywashedupsparkle]

cont'd - I'm sure the Hong Kong perspective would be more divided as to whether he was a good or a merely troublesome politician. There will always be scepticism as to a person's motives in Chris Patten's position. But at least he put up a fight for something.

[therepublicofHK]

Patten's reforms, at the end of the day, were almost irrelevant, his lasting legacy to Hong Kong was a sense of entitlement that the people can, and should, expect their leaders to fight on their behalf. It was that fact that made him so popular in HK, something he continues to be.

[dirtywashedupsparkle]

I'm not sure Chris Patten was universally popular in Hong Kong, despite the approval ratings. Certainly he was controversial, and certainly he made a noise that ruffled the feathers of China in the last days of British rule in Hong Kong (which is like stirring a hornet's nest).

[therepublicofHK]

con't - As for his popularity, I can personally attest to it. There is a minority who say he should have kept quite for reasons stated in the videos even after the fact, the vast majority of HK disagree. Judging from the sycophantic nature of his predecessors and successors, his popularity had almost as much to do with their shortcomings as it did to his virtues.

[cjk91]

Thank you for these! I thought "why haven't I seen any documentaries about this".

[therepublicofHK]

Glad I could help!