Jordan & Tatiana at Sydney Salsa Congress 2011 Friday

[Ilovedancingxxx]

How can you call this a salsa congress? whats going on with salsa in Sydney?

Go to the school again but don't choose the same teacher, its better if you go to Latin America to learn real Salsa.

[susanshomebiz]

@Ilovedancingxxx Obviously this is not Salsa, this is West Coast Swing and this Salsa Congress has combined with WCS and offered classes in which hundreds participated in and these teachers are performing at the congress, which is usual for the teachers to perform. And it's great the WCS is being offered alongside of Salsa since these two dances are very related.

[Ilovedancingxxx]

it looks like they can dance but that music is not salsa at all, if you think you can dance you should dance to a Real Latin salsa song and then we'll see how good you two are!!! so disappointed with that music, show us some skills with real salsa please.

That song is to easy to dance to, anyone can do it!!!!!!! Guys please don't be to lazy and try with real salsa or you haven't got enough talent.

salsa is about moving the hips and dancing to salsa music, neither of which you do.

[theactress89]

I think they are fantastic dancers.

@HuntersonB

Are you a lindy hopper perchance?

[maricami2004]

Hermoso...sin palabras..!!!! me gustaría saber el nombre del tema musical????

[HunterstonB]

Reading a book, playing music or following choreography is not the same as writing a book, creating music, and dancing to the music are completely different skill sets.

The confusion is that many people think that following choreography, or set routines is 'dancing' . What they are doing is gymnastics to a beat.

[BRaffertyable]

@HunterstonB But if the choreography is their own creation isn't that more akin to writing a book than reading one?

[HunterstonB]

@BRaffertyable

Argueably, but then we get into qualitative discussions about the complexity of the music and skill of musical interpretation.

It's easy to do complex gymastic's to simple piece of music (like the above) very difficult if the music is complex and has many accents and syncopations.

Type 'Sarah Van Drake, Johnny B Goode' into Youtube to see what I mean

[BRaffertyable]

@HunterstonB

"Argueably, but then we get into qualitative discussions about the complexity of the music and skill of musical interpretation."

We really don't; I was just pointing out the flaw in your analogy.

I know sweet FA about dancing, I just like the pretty shapes.

[HunterstonB]

@BRaffertyable

Oh well then, according to your observation its just as easy to to write and perform Shakspeare as the Teletubbies. . . .

3 year old's enjoy and are quite impressed by the Teletubbies - lots of pretty shapes and colours.

With education and experience people usually move on, but some don't.

[HunterstonB]

@BRaffertyable

At the physical level, J & and T's dancing is comparable to Sarah Van Drake. At the musical level - there is no comparison. J & T look like beginners, but you would need to be 'musically literate' to appreciate why, and the vast majority, perhaps 90% of people are not musically literate.

[HunterstonB]

Disagree. Certainly Modern percussive music is greatly influenced by Afrucan muisc - but Irish/Scots Step Dance and European Folk Dance existed long before African music became popular in the USA.

If you listen to an African choir or a Welsh choir or even Latvian choir, its quite clear that the singers are by and large not musically deaf. Some cultures have much better musical literacy than others.

If you can't improvise you are unable to create music or dance - you are following a script.

[BrianCraigEllis]

The song is "The Resistance" by Muse - and I'm doing one or two classes taught by these two this weekend. Yee haa!

[evilmangoeater]

@BrianCraigEllis

It is uprising

[bevieb05]

He looks like he' wearing eye shadow.

[sameese79]

@bevieb05 he is. :)

[legende84]

what the name of the song ? :)

[kur1r1nn]

I will do anything to take lessons from this couple, for me you are the best in the WORLD! is always an honor to watch your videos. I live in Brazil, but I can reach you and be able to do a workshop of their dance.

[salsero3171]

Lo ammetto... sono stato contagiato....FANTASTICI!!!!!

[danzingtiger]

Awesome!! They're the greatest!

[HunterstonB]

And of course a Swing or Jazz musician will 'Swing' the notes so they are longer or shorter than demanded by the Tempo to create emphasis (syncopation)

All a Swing dancer has to do is anticipate where the breaks in the music are going to occur, change their styling for the different sections of the phrase and changes in phrase and then also hit the accents when the musicians syncopate the music.

Simples!!!

[FemmeFataleRockstar]

want me to go on ??, well there are 32 beats to a complete phrase, which mean either 4 x 6 counts plus an 8 count = 32 or your choice... if you count right and make 32, you dance will "move" to the music, if you dont, then youre count will be out and guess what, you wonder why you are not dancing to the music... damn !!! I am good. !!

[FemmeFataleRockstar]

wrong. there is no rockstep like east coast swing. for the record, the "slot" can move. You are correct its not regular swing, its West Coast Swing.... 1, 2 3 and 4 5 and 6. or, 1, 2 3&4, 5, 6 7&8. So, now you are clued. You are supposed to do it to the music, once you understand the basics, you learn musicology, which is timing and phrasing to the music. Wow, bet your hurting on that one.. perhaps stick to you "rock step"... !

[LaSarenea]

HEY EVERYONE! Let me clue you in. WEST Coast Swing, is not regular swing, it is like Hustle in that it is a SLOT dance. But the basic make up is still; triple step, triple step, Rockstep, like swing. The BEAUTIFUL thing about this dance is that you can do it to the music (musicality-look it up) or the beat. This is why the choreography is SO FREAKIN AWESOME!

oh and "theactress89" I suggest you take lessons in ballroom dancing, I would be happy to give them to you :)

[cogumelo8426]

EXCELENTE!!!!!

[HunterstonB]

Although technically flawless, I am always disappointed by their choice of music and interpretation - the dancing doesn't 'Swing'

They could do so much better.

[salserito01]

@HunterstonB personally I love the choice of music! not to mention the routine!

[HunterstonB]

@salserito01

Why? There's nothing in the music to dance to. It's musically unimaginative and very boring. It's like strict tempo ballroom music.

[salserito01]

@HunterstonB why? because I simply love it! and according to the audience response I dare to say that they loved it too (I was there and did there workshops)

sorry to desagree with you but I also think it is a great musicallity routine.

cheers

[HunterstonB]

@salserito01 How can it be 'musical' if there is no music in in it? The problem is most people can't hear or distinquish 'swing' or 'syncopation' in music or dance. So we get acrobatics to a beat - which is what this is.

The public love it - but it isn't Swing dancing.

You're not disagreeing with me - your telling me you can't hear melody in music. Take the test at BBC labs to test your musicality - particularly the melody test.

[theactress89]

@HunterstonB They are hitting the syncopations. Very well. Just because it isn't a classic swing song does not make it less fitting. I think they did do a great job putting together a smart routine that compliments the music while maintaining a beautifully technical west coast swing routine.

Try counting to the 16th counts and watch their footwork. They are hitting the beats beautifully.

What kind of swing are you thinking of when you say "Swing" dancing?

[HunterstonB]

@theactress89 . If you don't know what muesic 'swings' and what doesn't - you rather prove my point.

There is nothiing to dance to in the music because the music follows a steady beat. Swing music does not have a steady beat, it has syncopations (deliberate shortening of lenghting of the beat) and a strong melody.

[theactress89]

@HunterstonB I was actually asking if you were referring stylistically to Lindy, ECS, or WCS, or as a whole.

Listening to this song, you can apply swing syncopations, and they do. One of the beauties of swing is that it can be successfully danced to a variety of music. WCS does especially well with more modern music, and I love what they did to this piece.

[HunterstonB]

@theactress89 You don't understand Swing or Swing music at all. . . . . . . . .. One of the tragdies of WCS is dancers of very limited musical ability think they are dancing Swing when they are not.

I repeat. There is NOTHING in this track that Swings. . . . . It's just acrobatic's to a beat.

Goto BBC Labs and take the musical awareness labs - to be a 'Swing' dancer you need to be getting about 80% on the melody test.

[theactress89]

@HunterstonB

Took the test for a lark. Definitely got higher than 80 on everything minus "social creativity".

I still disagree with you. The basic four count is punctuated by what would qualify as a strong enough sub-beat for a triple step or a forward walk. There is the ability to "swing" to this music.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. As a dancer, I do feel that there is enough in here to make a good west coast swing, though my first dance is salsa.

[HunterstonB]

@theactress89

Ah. . . .Salsa.

You have to understand that dancers divide into two groups. 'The beat dancers' and

The melody dancers'. Swing and Argentine Tango are melody dances, that is to say they are trying to follow the musical construction, not the tempo.

Salsa and most ballroom dances are musically very undemanding, all you have to do is follow the tempo.

Salsa dancers (if they have a good Swing teacher) usually find Swing very difficult

[theactress89]

@HunterstonB Swing, despite being danced to a melody is still danced to a beat. It's a fundamental. In ANY dance.

I'm sad you have such a narrow mind towards dance. Salsa is no more, or less, difficult than swing.

It's too bad you cannot seem to connect to the musicality they are presenting in this piece. I may need a lesson in "musical appreciation", but seems to me that I'm not the only one, and at least I'm intelligent enough to understand a good piece of choreography.

[HunterstonB]

@theactress89 It's unfortunate that you have such a narrow experience of dance. Dancing to the beat is NOT fundamental. How can it be in something like Argentine Tango, where the 'beat' is layered in different components. Following the beat rigidly is easy. .

Salsa is a lot easier that Swing. The problem is that you don't appreciate that one is built around the musical structure and the other is not.

At least we agreed on one thing. It's a great piece of choreography - but it isn't Swing.

[theactress89]

@HunterstonB I've done swing, and argentine tango. Whether you're dancing to the melody or to the rigid beat, you are still dancing on the beat. That tempo can slow down or speed up depending on the feel of the music, but this is true of any dance, salsa included.

One of the things I find beautiful about swing is its adaptability to different musics. This piece is still swing.

[HunterstonB]

@theactress89 I'm afraid I have to completely disagree. I would actually go so far as to say 'Swing' is one of the least adaptable dances - the music has to be right.

This is Hustle or Modern JIve music not West Coast Swing and the dancing more Hustle than Swing.

[theactress89]

@HunterstonB Well, to each their own I suppose. :)

[jadedgurl86]

ummm west coast swing is very adaptable to music....if you don't believe me there are a plethora of wcs vids on here to prove it. Even if you stay w/in classic wcs there is a lot variety the in music used amongst the performers. What you seem to be referring to is actually east coast swing...which is very hard to adapt to varied music....unless the dancers/choreographer really knows what they are doing (and even then, it's difficult). But as HuntersonB wrote "to each their own" 

[MrWildbill20056]

@HunterstonB I'm sorry you display utter ignorance of Salsa. First true Salsa music is rhythmically much richer than most jazz swing. Second the pinnacle of Salsa dance is to be able to depict musical structure, musical mood, each rhythm and each instrument.

Second doing away with this 'beat' concept, all dance must operate on the rhythms of its music, otherwise it forms a complete artistic disconnect. In this sense.

There is no music OR rhythm, they are one fused body!

[HunterstonB]

@MrWildbill20056

Most dancers are musically deaf - that goes for about 90% of people, even those competing at international level. It's glaringly and completely obvious to those are not musically deaf.

It also applies to many musicians who can follow sheet music but can't improvise

If you are interested I can provide you with a simple test.



[MrWildbill20056]

@HunterstonB No, what you mean is musically uneducated.

The origins of modern percussive music are in north west Africa, and I assure you they don't take tests to find out who is a gifted dancer or performer in a tribal setting.

Further, the measure of a great musician might be partially found in their capacity to improvise ie the great Salsa soneros, but certainly not entirely there!

The great classical pieces would be a shambles if one started to improvise!

[xoxoDayDreamingxoxo]

@HunterstonB As a musician, I can tell you that improvising on the spot and mastering a piece well before performing are two very different and difficult skill sets. A "musically deaf" person can not perform from sheet music at a professional and neither can they improvise. Just because you can't improvise well doesn't mean you're not skilled. I have found that some people are good at improvising and playing by ear, but put a piece of music in front of them and they sound dull.

[HunterstonB]

@xoxoDayDreamingxoxo

Exactly. These are two extremely skilled dancers. They can do choreography. They would never have chosen the 'music' they are dancing to if they had any understanding of musical structure, whether the musicality was trained or intuitive.

[xoxoDayDreamingxoxo]

@HunterstonB I don't understand what you dislike about this music. (Why call it 'music'? It's more musical than rap and a lot of heavy metal out there.) It does have a structure. This song does seem like it could be very difficult to dance to, but they keep up with it and stay in sync with the beat. And you should look at videos of Jordan and Tatiana dancing at Jack and Jill competitions. They are good at more than just following a set pattern of moves.

[HunterstonB]

@xoxoDayDreamingxoxo

'They stay in sync with the beat' - - -- - - - - so can marching soldiers.

If you can't see/hear the difference between musical improvisation, and the ability to do it in dance or music. I can't explain it to you.

They have very limited musical improvisational skills. It's very clear in thier choice of music. There's nothing to interpret in the music chosen.

[susanshomebiz]

@HunterstonB Don't listen to HuntersonB. This person is a very negative person and must be very miserable. It's kind of strange that this person would go onto almost all the videos offered by these dancers and bash them over and over again. Perhaps has an ax to grind? Either way, this person needs to get a life. Remember, if you don't have something good to say, then don't say anything at all. Their posts are all negative and very few good comments are ever posted by this person.

[HunterstonB]

@theactress89 To repeat. The music has a very simple contruction. There is no melody to dance to. That should be obvious. If it is not obvious, I suggest you take lessons in musical appreciation.

[qonf]

@HunterstonB While I would agree that this isn't typical swing music, who the hell do you think you are, and what makes you think you are entitled to define what is and what isn't swing. Furthermore, what gives you the tenacity to imply that Salsa and most ballroom dances are "musically very undemanding."

[jeffyboi85]

@salserito01 Agreed! They were incredible!

[jeffyboi85]

Amazing! They were even better LIVE!!!

[Denizsevenn]

wowwoow no comment , really perfectttttttttttt million time

[samhell12]

amazed...