If we had more sustainable energy source China would become obsolete. It is better to have machines produce good then people.
The only reason why we are still dependent on cheap labor is because our idiot scientist are making bombs and planes with bombs instead of Looking for ways to better harness Energy efficiently.
The only thing i like about china is that they are not bombing Arab people for their oil
The reporter was innocently asking whether the huge disparities in China are just a stage that the Party will eventually figure out. It's like Marx promising that communism will magically dissolve the state by giving it all power and all property.
In fact, China is just the last example that socialism is programmed slavery of the entire country for the benefit of the communist elite.
@nilbud That's precisely why I know so much about socialism, because I've lived it. Unfortunately, the West is absolutely ignorant about it and that's why is already on "the road to serfdom".
It's funny how you expect someone from the East to be in favor of communism. Guess you never wondered why Westerners don't line up to emigrate to Cuba, Belarus, Venezuela, N Korea, where they could see the socialist paradise, but rather prefer to support it from the comfort of a capitalist state.
It's ironic to see all the Federal Reserve bashing; although of course its an inefficient and corrupt body that should be replaced by a central bank, a large amount of the current crisis was caused by financial markets buying cheap credit from abroad rather than getting it from the FR which was attempting to stabilise the dollar.
the real news programming is somewhat uneven. Many times you have very knowledable people like this guy, who realy knows what he is talking about and sometimes they bring people like that guy they define as "a pashtun studying for his PHD in London" who really, really looks like he knows as much as Pakistan as my mother about the politics of my country. They should have my mother sometime ;)
Free markets didnt kill the US.. Fascism did.. Not to mention the 98% devaluation in the dollar thanks to the federal reserve...
Grow some hemp in your back yard and see what happens... No, no... You dont have the freedom to do that because it will piss off a lot of people who make billions off of cotton, plastic, medicines, etc............... Fascism...
@vdubs4life1964 While most of what you said is true, the stuff about the markets is ridiculous. You're conflating a precondition for freedom, voluntarism, with the substance of freedom, the ability of one to control their only life and live as they see fit. Markets do not allow that for most of the people in the united states or around the world. they naturally remove control from the individual to the market. Voluntarism doesn't change that.
@vdubs4life1964 This just proves that the truly free market does not exist, not even in the country that is hailed as the biggest real-world example of this system.
@Maxstate A truly free market system is the lesser of two evils. The lesser of two evils is still evil. We need a Resource Based Economy. /watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg and /watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
Yes, by definition, it's a prerequisites of a 'free market': there must be a non-monopolistic currency. Otherwise, there is a centrally controlled economy, which we have.
@LibertaerUeberAlles the Federal Reserve was run by a self proclaimed libertarian. that is what caused this mess. the problem is deregulation of the banks. go troll on Russia Today and let intelligent adults discuss the real issues. Ron Paul will not end the Fed. just some BS propaganda.
I think he himself knows that. But, had it not been for him, then most people would still be asleep. Promoting issues is his forte. Becoming president is irrelevant.
Besides, I don't care about ending the Fed, literally. Getting legal tender laws repealed is what's important. It would make the "regulation" discussion moot. You can have all the banking "regulations" and fiat-currencies you want, as long as I can transact in pure gold, silver, platinum, palladium, rhodium, etc.
@LibertaerUeberAlles And there is no such thing as a "free market" in your uber-purist sense of the phrase. Your "free-markets" aren't even possible in the real world.
So true. It is a never-ending battle to defend against oligarchs who seek to control our markets via their regulations and subversion. I guess it's the.cardinal challenge of mankind to oppose them.
@LibertaerUeberAlles Today the most powerful economic actors aren't the governments or regulators, its the corporations. The biggest corporations today have more wealth and therefore power than most nations, and among the biggest nations, their politicians are dominated by the interests of the wealthy. On top of all this, corporations are dictatorial, totalitarian institutions with and extreme level of centralization. You claim to support free-markets but ignore the biggest threat- big business.
But, I have mentioned decoupling from the currency monopoly (see one of my previous comments) which would effectively starve large corporations of equity capital, and thereby reduce their power and influence. Consider that it is due to the current inflationary system, that stock market investing is in large part necessary.
Instead, "hard goods," such as metals, can preserve savings with less risk. As I mentioned above, it renders the "regulations" discussion moot.
@spartan2600 I think you or someone else has spouted this before. Free Markets aren't even possible in reality. I believe you gave a very odd context for what you believed to be a "free market".
But in the context of what most people who advocate a free market actually believe, they are not only easily possible, they exist all over the place in microcosms.
You could say the same thing about democracy. Democracy can't and doesn't exist in the ultra purist state. Is it useless to pursue?
@sirellyn Right-wing libertarians and Ayn Randists often say that free markets exist without coercion, but then claim that only the government can coerce people, not wealthy individuals, not businesses, etc. The fact that right-wing concepts of the free market cannot be possible is based upon the fact that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what coercion is- a misunderstanding that happens to be very convenient for billionaires like the Kochs who pay people to repeat the lie.
@spartan2600 Ok again, democracy example. If democracy was strictly adhered to, we'd vote directly on every position in government, and every decision they made. That doesn't obviously happen but to encourage democracy is to encourage movement towards maximum choice.
Same for free markets. The point is to suppress as much of the coercion to the best of our ability (which gets better all the time). We CAN operate without a central bank, SEC etc, but with courts, and police.
@Scientisticsoviet (Regarding banking w/o central banks in 1800s) Actually I'd argue that the financial systems were VERY stable while the individuals banks were not. Even when a whole slew of banks went down people would lose money and be upset, but generally everyone would be ok.
It would be unheard of to even consider a bunch of big banks going down to start a depression. To them at that time that was simply impossible.
@sirellyn Empirically not the case. These crises happened repeatedly through the 19th century, and had long reaching (read "systemic") effects. I can link you the relevant page, through a private message.
@Scientisticsoviet Before the great depression, the only other country wide financial crisis that happened was from recovery from war debt/extraneous printing from war, or (in the case of the 1870's) from the government switching the "meaning of money" by switching over from bimetallism.
It would never happen from a bank or financial institution going under. It's not that it didn't cause turmoil, but it was localized.
And sure, cite your sources, I'd love to read them.
@sirellyn Which can originate from one sector of the economy and spread to another via the financial system, or originate in the financial system itself (as it did in 2007-2008 to a large degree).
This is not to say that the federal reserve is not at fault at all (it kept interest rates quite low for an extended period; From the recession in 2000), but given the innovation in financial instruments, I don't think one can blame the federal reserve solely, or even majorly (for a worldwide crisis)
@Scientisticsoviet Yes you can blame the fed solely. If the Fed did not exist and currency was tied to some sort of commodity (could be oil or wheat for all I care), the 1930s depression, the 1979 recession and the crash of 2008 simply could not occur. If would have literally been impossible.
Or maybe you can explain how any of those could have happened if the Fed & fiat did not exist.
Doesn't mean financial utopia, it means crashes become as significant as the post WW1 1921 crash.
@sirellyn Well, I am most familiar with the current system, and so I will speak only of that; I reiterate: "innovation in financial instruments" such that the unintended consequences were not well understood.
Also, allowing financial institutions to become large enough that they are guaranteed an implicit bailout (because their failure effects the whole economy).
@Scientisticsoviet The assumption was that letting the banks die would kill the economy. This is complete fiction. Lehman Bros went under, it was larger than Goldman at the time and there was virtually no fallout. Add to that the FDIC guaranteed accounts for up to 100k. This would have been a smaller number than the bailout money given to them as well as the post Fed trillion plus funds transfer.
@Scientisticsoviet Also the banks themselves went down due to fractional reserve banking. This was a completely different problem than having a central bank. Having one, while minimizing small busts created the opportunity for a HUGE bust. (like a great depression/recession) when it couldn't pay. Or hyperinflation if the monetary unit was unfixed and they printed the difference.
@sirellyn I'm not too sure about this. The theory you posit is sketchy at best. I think I will ask for proper academic research with the appropriate data before continuing to comment. Still, it seems quite unrelated that central banking was the prime cause behind all and/or most recessions.
Note that I have only done the basic macroeconomics course which includes a portion on central banking. And so it you could have learned something I haven't yet if you are further along in your courses.
@Scientisticsoviet This isn't a theory, this is how the banking system works. The Fed was created because of this. (The lender of last resort) During the bank runs in the early 1930's this is exactly what happened.
In fact the same thing has happened recently in many other countries with central bank, see Yugoslavia, see Argentina etc. What do you think happens in a country when there's a bank holiday? There's no nationwide financial calamity?
@sirellyn But as far as I understand, the problem of the Federal reserve i nearly 30s was that it kept interest rates too high, and didn't lend enough currency to liquify other banks. At least this is what Friedman has said.
(Aside, the reason there isn't a calamity on holidays is because cash doesn't leave the banks in large quanities; In fact it doesn't leave them at all. Banking crises happen a lot of money is withdrawn because of fears of insolvency, (cont.)
@spartan2600 Also I have still yet to hear what the Kochs have done that Soros and other billionaires have not. Aside from "I don't like their political stance on things. And them using their money/influence to push them."
Honestly nearly every billionaire I can find does this unless a total recluse. Have they influenced or bribed someone in a way that Soros or Branson hasn't?
Is it their method or ideology you have a problem with?
@sirellyn You think I support Soros? Soros is generally centerist, the Kochs are far-right. Soros isn't exactly some big anti-capitalist, but overwhelmingly the rich give their money to those who will pursue the rich man's self-interest. Less taxes, less regulation, etc. So what if Soros gave a token amount of money to help legalize marijuana in California? That is the exception.
@spartan2600 It's not just Soros its all other billionaires. Branson, Gates, Buffet, Walton, Ortega, etc etc etc. What have the Kochs done above all the others, aside from have political views that you don't agree with?
What actions make them so bad, (that other billionaires haven't done) aside from their political views?
@vdubs4life1964 It's free market is same sens that soviet unions comunism, nice idea used to cover brutal reality. Good thing that people start to see thru it. From experience of my parents generation in Poland (and rest of eastern blok), they tried to fix socialism, and that was enough to bring down system that claimed this ideology. Hopefully if Americans try to fix capitalism it will bring down American Empire.
@vdubs4life1964 inflation is not something the Federal Reserve invented. It existed even when we were on the gold standard (go back to Ron Paul and tell him that!).
@spartan2600 I think he mentions that in his book... You do have to admit that a commodity backed currency is still better than a fiat system we have now...
I want to know how to abolish interest on debt... I'm thinking that banks should charge a membership fee and abolish the interest.. I dunno.. I'm not pretending to know everything...
@vdubs4life1964 If we wanted to get rid of interest on debt, we could have the government run banks- which is exactly what it used to do before the 1930's. The Post Office used to make small loans to the poor and middle class. Japan has something like this, but at a massive scale and which lends to local businesses.
Bank membership fees are an interesting idea, but impossible to implement currently since banks are private businesses and only seek higher profits, and do not care about our lives.
I use twitter and facebook while I was in China. Though I had to use a vpn. but the point is there are internet cafes everywheeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrreeeee that has uncensored and unlimited access internet. So in retrospect the great firewall is a huge waste of money. The people hate the party there, but the party is lucky that the people are now only interested in making money.
"owned by Japanese, Taiwanese and foreigners" now why did he say it THAT way? Is the internet controlled by the Communist Party in China? YES. Is the internet TOTALLY controlled by the Communist Party in China? NO. For example there was the case of Li Qiming. I agree that the biggest IMMEDIATE threat to any government in the world in the price of food and the second biggest threat is THE banks. Well on second thought maybe the biggest threat are THE investment banks.
@cheddyrod My mom used to chat with this girl from China in the 90's and early 2000's but then China got control over the internet and now her friend is not allowed to go to any site or program where she can communicate with Americans. So I don't know how accurate that statement is about them having TOTAL control over the internet. There is only a couple of dissident bloggers that are constantly under attack by the Fascist regime. China = not Communism even the Soviets thought they were bullshit
that doesn't make any sense because I can comunicate with my friends in China easily using skype and msn messenger. Your mom hasn't tried getting in touch with her lately or her friend must've switched to a different client. I say listen to this guy, and then go travel to China dude. It is worth a trip. So much history. China is an interesting country. If you are thinking of starting something up like a business. China isn't too bad of a place to do this in.
@lordblazer Strange, maybe her friend doesn't have time anymore or something. Who knows, I remember watching some shit awhile ago where they built the largest skate park in the world in Shanghai it looked pretty tight, but the Chinese looked like they had some work to do when it came to landing harder tricks. Maybe its because my mom exposed her friend to some news about a local river in China that had been polluted her friend wasn't aware of.
that makes no sense.... It takes a lot more to catch the gov'ts eye. To be honest though they are quite paranoid in China, with the exception of Shanghai and Beijing. But this is my experience as a black american. Hong Kong is quite racist . Macau everyone thought I was brazilian and only spoke to me in portugese. Anyway dude. I spent a lot of time in China. I say you and your mom should go and visit. Save up money for a yr and get a tkt and go.
@lordblazer: your experiences of China are interesting. I'd like to read more about them. I'm a U.S. citizen, but originally from Hong Kong. As far as racism in HK is concerned, it may be due to the way the British treated the Chinese there when they were running it, rascism goes both ways.
I'm only telling you my experience of HK racism from the perspective of a black american. It wasn't because I was American. It had more to do with me being black. The extra security that my two white friends didn't have to do that I did every time. Police asking for my passport then the harassment that followed as to how a black person is able to have an American passport. It isn't just a HK thing. Its a Southeast Asian thing because the HK wasn't the only place like that.
Me and a few friends want to eventually start up a night club in Shanghai and try to make it trendy. I know a few australians that are living and working in Hangzhou and Shanghai. I know people in Kunming one dude from Ghana, and another dude from the US both have their own english language schools. For both of them China was a place to work and save up money they spent quite a lot of time there, and the landscape of China is constantly changing. there is sooo much energy in china.
@MadXMax187 But basically China is what I wish Japan was more like. I mean seriously Chinese are quite tough people man. Very aggressive, very rude, the line does not exist. A lot of people have a me first attitude, but with this comes a strong sense of duty, and community more so than the Japanese. The Chinese are a lot more honest, and open about expressing their emotions than the Japanese are. That's why I like China. Japan I like for the interesting people I've encountered in my life there
yea. Though China has quite a large middle class (larger than the US population). By percentage though they're quite insignificant and only limited to the cities in China. Places like Shanghai while fucking awesome has a lot of billionaires and poor people and a very small urban middle class. I've been to China twice both times spending a month there. The first time having to hitch hike(banks froze my account O.O) and sooo it was cool, second time a research trip.
The Chinese government holds the party line when it suits them. In regards to population control, social restrictions and politics. But for the most part their main focus is business. What he does not touch on is dramatic consumer inflation is taking hold in China. Yes, I will tell you from being here that food prices have risen A LOT in the past two years. Also, even though there are a lot of college graduates - the jobless rate for recent grads is 50%.
When in China do you live. I traveled through the east coast back in 2009 and I spent time in Yunnan Province mostly in Kunming at Yunnan University back in 2010. MY experience in China had a lot to do with the African diaspora living there. Seeing that I am black american. It is the same for when I was living in Japan up until late March of this year. Anyway there was a person on here that said that its impossible to talk to americans in China. tell him this is not true.
The title is grossly misleading...
Smegma007 9 months ago
So what does Belgium think..? Ah, Blah, blah blah!
phfrankh 9 months ago
So what does Belgium think..?
phfrankh 9 months ago
If we had more sustainable energy source China would become obsolete. It is better to have machines produce good then people.
The only reason why we are still dependent on cheap labor is because our idiot scientist are making bombs and planes with bombs instead of Looking for ways to better harness Energy efficiently.
The only thing i like about china is that they are not bombing Arab people for their oil
jystyle 9 months ago
The reporter was innocently asking whether the huge disparities in China are just a stage that the Party will eventually figure out. It's like Marx promising that communism will magically dissolve the state by giving it all power and all property.
In fact, China is just the last example that socialism is programmed slavery of the entire country for the benefit of the communist elite.
Please: watch?v=Vj4P1DH7o-Q
schmoukiz 9 months ago
@schmoukiz Amazing how you claim to be from Romania and yet you know nothing about socialism.
nilbud 9 months ago
@nilbud That's precisely why I know so much about socialism, because I've lived it. Unfortunately, the West is absolutely ignorant about it and that's why is already on "the road to serfdom".
It's funny how you expect someone from the East to be in favor of communism. Guess you never wondered why Westerners don't line up to emigrate to Cuba, Belarus, Venezuela, N Korea, where they could see the socialist paradise, but rather prefer to support it from the comfort of a capitalist state.
schmoukiz 9 months ago
It's ironic to see all the Federal Reserve bashing; although of course its an inefficient and corrupt body that should be replaced by a central bank, a large amount of the current crisis was caused by financial markets buying cheap credit from abroad rather than getting it from the FR which was attempting to stabilise the dollar.
niriop 9 months ago
What's so free of the Free to rob to root world? There's no free lunch. Don't be a free loader.
If you hate China if you are allergic to the word Commie, then you can learn something from Singapore, the country China has learn so much from.
overseachininadoll 9 months ago
lol I think they are really over estimating facebook when they block it.
hac1m 9 months ago
Real News Network = Socialism Propaganda Channel
Ajusco1974 9 months ago
divide US for Peace sake
mrnawanshehr 9 months ago
the real news programming is somewhat uneven. Many times you have very knowledable people like this guy, who realy knows what he is talking about and sometimes they bring people like that guy they define as "a pashtun studying for his PHD in London" who really, really looks like he knows as much as Pakistan as my mother about the politics of my country. They should have my mother sometime ;)
kurydebarcelona 9 months ago
Unfettered Capitalism is slavery !!!
mba2ceo 9 months ago
slave labor !!!!!!!!
mba2ceo 9 months ago
Free markets didnt kill the US.. Fascism did.. Not to mention the 98% devaluation in the dollar thanks to the federal reserve...
Grow some hemp in your back yard and see what happens... No, no... You dont have the freedom to do that because it will piss off a lot of people who make billions off of cotton, plastic, medicines, etc............... Fascism...
vdubs4life1964 9 months ago 34
@vdubs4life1964 While most of what you said is true, the stuff about the markets is ridiculous. You're conflating a precondition for freedom, voluntarism, with the substance of freedom, the ability of one to control their only life and live as they see fit. Markets do not allow that for most of the people in the united states or around the world. they naturally remove control from the individual to the market. Voluntarism doesn't change that.
ViolentMonopoly 9 months ago
@vdubs4life1964 This just proves that the truly free market does not exist, not even in the country that is hailed as the biggest real-world example of this system.
Maxstate 9 months ago
@Maxstate A truly free market system is the lesser of two evils. The lesser of two evils is still evil. We need a Resource Based Economy. /watch?v=EewGMBOB4Gg and /watch?v=4Z9WVZddH9w
boumar19721972 9 months ago 2
@vdubs4life1964 Free Markets is a fascist term. A BS term to get ignorant conservatives to vote republican.
captcrais101 9 months ago
@vdubs4life1964 Fascism and america...same thing
feyzu66 9 months ago
@vdubs4life1964
uhh...no
Alan Greenspan himself admitted that it was deregulation and free market-ism runneth over that caused the crisis.
pazomblez 9 months ago
@pazomblez
No such thing as a 'free market' when there is a controlled currency via the Federal Reserve.
LibertaerUeberAlles 9 months ago 2
@LibertaerUeberAlles
oh i see you're an ideologue...have fun with that.
pazomblez 9 months ago
@pazomblez
Yes, by definition, it's a prerequisites of a 'free market': there must be a non-monopolistic currency. Otherwise, there is a centrally controlled economy, which we have.
LibertaerUeberAlles 9 months ago 2
@LibertaerUeberAlles the Federal Reserve was run by a self proclaimed libertarian. that is what caused this mess. the problem is deregulation of the banks. go troll on Russia Today and let intelligent adults discuss the real issues. Ron Paul will not end the Fed. just some BS propaganda.
LouieArrighi 9 months ago
@LouieArrighi
Most adults know that being "self proclaimed" doesn't make it so.
Which one of your candidates will end the Fed?
LibertaerUeberAlles 9 months ago 2
@LibertaerUeberAlles you're delusional if you think Ron Paul (one man) will end the fed.
LouieArrighi 9 months ago
@LouieArrighi
I think he himself knows that. But, had it not been for him, then most people would still be asleep. Promoting issues is his forte. Becoming president is irrelevant.
Besides, I don't care about ending the Fed, literally. Getting legal tender laws repealed is what's important. It would make the "regulation" discussion moot. You can have all the banking "regulations" and fiat-currencies you want, as long as I can transact in pure gold, silver, platinum, palladium, rhodium, etc.
LibertaerUeberAlles 9 months ago 2
@LouieArrighi Generally you are delusional if you ever rely on one person to topple an impossible task.
That said, you are just as delusional if you deny that one person could topple an impossible task.
History, both ancient and especially in modern is littered with examples.
sirellyn 9 months ago
@LibertaerUeberAlles And there is no such thing as a "free market" in your uber-purist sense of the phrase. Your "free-markets" aren't even possible in the real world.
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600
So true. It is a never-ending battle to defend against oligarchs who seek to control our markets via their regulations and subversion. I guess it's the.cardinal challenge of mankind to oppose them.
LibertaerUeberAlles 9 months ago 4
@LibertaerUeberAlles Today the most powerful economic actors aren't the governments or regulators, its the corporations. The biggest corporations today have more wealth and therefore power than most nations, and among the biggest nations, their politicians are dominated by the interests of the wealthy. On top of all this, corporations are dictatorial, totalitarian institutions with and extreme level of centralization. You claim to support free-markets but ignore the biggest threat- big business.
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600
But, I have mentioned decoupling from the currency monopoly (see one of my previous comments) which would effectively starve large corporations of equity capital, and thereby reduce their power and influence. Consider that it is due to the current inflationary system, that stock market investing is in large part necessary.
Instead, "hard goods," such as metals, can preserve savings with less risk. As I mentioned above, it renders the "regulations" discussion moot.
LibertaerUeberAlles 9 months ago 2
@spartan2600 I think you or someone else has spouted this before. Free Markets aren't even possible in reality. I believe you gave a very odd context for what you believed to be a "free market".
But in the context of what most people who advocate a free market actually believe, they are not only easily possible, they exist all over the place in microcosms.
You could say the same thing about democracy. Democracy can't and doesn't exist in the ultra purist state. Is it useless to pursue?
sirellyn 9 months ago
@sirellyn Right-wing libertarians and Ayn Randists often say that free markets exist without coercion, but then claim that only the government can coerce people, not wealthy individuals, not businesses, etc. The fact that right-wing concepts of the free market cannot be possible is based upon the fact that they have a fundamental misunderstanding of what coercion is- a misunderstanding that happens to be very convenient for billionaires like the Kochs who pay people to repeat the lie.
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600 Ok again, democracy example. If democracy was strictly adhered to, we'd vote directly on every position in government, and every decision they made. That doesn't obviously happen but to encourage democracy is to encourage movement towards maximum choice.
Same for free markets. The point is to suppress as much of the coercion to the best of our ability (which gets better all the time). We CAN operate without a central bank, SEC etc, but with courts, and police.
sirellyn 9 months ago
@sirellyn Although banking systems without central banks were quite unstable (have look at the banking runs in the 1800s).
Scientisticsoviet 5 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet (Regarding banking w/o central banks in 1800s) Actually I'd argue that the financial systems were VERY stable while the individuals banks were not. Even when a whole slew of banks went down people would lose money and be upset, but generally everyone would be ok.
It would be unheard of to even consider a bunch of big banks going down to start a depression. To them at that time that was simply impossible.
sirellyn 5 months ago
@sirellyn Empirically not the case. These crises happened repeatedly through the 19th century, and had long reaching (read "systemic") effects. I can link you the relevant page, through a private message.
Scientisticsoviet 5 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet Before the great depression, the only other country wide financial crisis that happened was from recovery from war debt/extraneous printing from war, or (in the case of the 1870's) from the government switching the "meaning of money" by switching over from bimetallism.
It would never happen from a bank or financial institution going under. It's not that it didn't cause turmoil, but it was localized.
And sure, cite your sources, I'd love to read them.
sirellyn 5 months ago
@sirellyn The banking crises were systemic, and affect a large portion of the us economy.
Scientisticsoviet 5 months ago
@sirellyn Which can originate from one sector of the economy and spread to another via the financial system, or originate in the financial system itself (as it did in 2007-2008 to a large degree).
This is not to say that the federal reserve is not at fault at all (it kept interest rates quite low for an extended period; From the recession in 2000), but given the innovation in financial instruments, I don't think one can blame the federal reserve solely, or even majorly (for a worldwide crisis)
Scientisticsoviet 5 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet Yes you can blame the fed solely. If the Fed did not exist and currency was tied to some sort of commodity (could be oil or wheat for all I care), the 1930s depression, the 1979 recession and the crash of 2008 simply could not occur. If would have literally been impossible.
Or maybe you can explain how any of those could have happened if the Fed & fiat did not exist.
Doesn't mean financial utopia, it means crashes become as significant as the post WW1 1921 crash.
sirellyn 5 months ago
@sirellyn Well, I am most familiar with the current system, and so I will speak only of that; I reiterate: "innovation in financial instruments" such that the unintended consequences were not well understood.
Also, allowing financial institutions to become large enough that they are guaranteed an implicit bailout (because their failure effects the whole economy).
Scientisticsoviet 5 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet The assumption was that letting the banks die would kill the economy. This is complete fiction. Lehman Bros went under, it was larger than Goldman at the time and there was virtually no fallout. Add to that the FDIC guaranteed accounts for up to 100k. This would have been a smaller number than the bailout money given to them as well as the post Fed trillion plus funds transfer.
There was zero need to bail them out.
sirellyn 5 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet Also the banks themselves went down due to fractional reserve banking. This was a completely different problem than having a central bank. Having one, while minimizing small busts created the opportunity for a HUGE bust. (like a great depression/recession) when it couldn't pay. Or hyperinflation if the monetary unit was unfixed and they printed the difference.
The central bank MADE great depressions possible.
sirellyn 5 months ago
@sirellyn I'm not too sure about this. The theory you posit is sketchy at best. I think I will ask for proper academic research with the appropriate data before continuing to comment. Still, it seems quite unrelated that central banking was the prime cause behind all and/or most recessions.
Note that I have only done the basic macroeconomics course which includes a portion on central banking. And so it you could have learned something I haven't yet if you are further along in your courses.
Scientisticsoviet 5 months ago
@Scientisticsoviet This isn't a theory, this is how the banking system works. The Fed was created because of this. (The lender of last resort) During the bank runs in the early 1930's this is exactly what happened.
In fact the same thing has happened recently in many other countries with central bank, see Yugoslavia, see Argentina etc. What do you think happens in a country when there's a bank holiday? There's no nationwide financial calamity?
sirellyn 5 months ago
@sirellyn But as far as I understand, the problem of the Federal reserve i nearly 30s was that it kept interest rates too high, and didn't lend enough currency to liquify other banks. At least this is what Friedman has said.
(Aside, the reason there isn't a calamity on holidays is because cash doesn't leave the banks in large quanities; In fact it doesn't leave them at all. Banking crises happen a lot of money is withdrawn because of fears of insolvency, (cont.)
Scientisticsoviet 5 months ago
@spartan2600 Also I have still yet to hear what the Kochs have done that Soros and other billionaires have not. Aside from "I don't like their political stance on things. And them using their money/influence to push them."
Honestly nearly every billionaire I can find does this unless a total recluse. Have they influenced or bribed someone in a way that Soros or Branson hasn't?
Is it their method or ideology you have a problem with?
sirellyn 9 months ago
@sirellyn You think I support Soros? Soros is generally centerist, the Kochs are far-right. Soros isn't exactly some big anti-capitalist, but overwhelmingly the rich give their money to those who will pursue the rich man's self-interest. Less taxes, less regulation, etc. So what if Soros gave a token amount of money to help legalize marijuana in California? That is the exception.
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600 It's not just Soros its all other billionaires. Branson, Gates, Buffet, Walton, Ortega, etc etc etc. What have the Kochs done above all the others, aside from have political views that you don't agree with?
What actions make them so bad, (that other billionaires haven't done) aside from their political views?
This is all I'm asking.
sirellyn 9 months ago
@sirellyn Well since you have friend lock on, I will simply ask that you type in "banking crises list" on google.
Scientisticsoviet 5 months ago
@vdubs4life1964 It's free market is same sens that soviet unions comunism, nice idea used to cover brutal reality. Good thing that people start to see thru it. From experience of my parents generation in Poland (and rest of eastern blok), they tried to fix socialism, and that was enough to bring down system that claimed this ideology. Hopefully if Americans try to fix capitalism it will bring down American Empire.
daPawlak 9 months ago
@vdubs4life1964 The free market created fascism you idiot.
ourben 9 months ago
@vdubs4life1964 inflation is not something the Federal Reserve invented. It existed even when we were on the gold standard (go back to Ron Paul and tell him that!).
spartan2600 9 months ago
@spartan2600 I think he mentions that in his book... You do have to admit that a commodity backed currency is still better than a fiat system we have now...
I want to know how to abolish interest on debt... I'm thinking that banks should charge a membership fee and abolish the interest.. I dunno.. I'm not pretending to know everything...
vdubs4life1964 9 months ago
@vdubs4life1964 If we wanted to get rid of interest on debt, we could have the government run banks- which is exactly what it used to do before the 1930's. The Post Office used to make small loans to the poor and middle class. Japan has something like this, but at a massive scale and which lends to local businesses.
Bank membership fees are an interesting idea, but impossible to implement currently since banks are private businesses and only seek higher profits, and do not care about our lives.
spartan2600 9 months ago
@vdubs4life1964 98% devaluation? Where is that figure from? Over what time period? That would mean all imported products now cost 98% more...
Inflation has averaged 2 to 4% in the last 30 years...
Scientisticsoviet 5 months ago
I use twitter and facebook while I was in China. Though I had to use a vpn. but the point is there are internet cafes everywheeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrreeeee that has uncensored and unlimited access internet. So in retrospect the great firewall is a huge waste of money. The people hate the party there, but the party is lucky that the people are now only interested in making money.
lordblazer 9 months ago
"owned by Japanese, Taiwanese and foreigners" now why did he say it THAT way? Is the internet controlled by the Communist Party in China? YES. Is the internet TOTALLY controlled by the Communist Party in China? NO. For example there was the case of Li Qiming. I agree that the biggest IMMEDIATE threat to any government in the world in the price of food and the second biggest threat is THE banks. Well on second thought maybe the biggest threat are THE investment banks.
cheddyrod 9 months ago
@cheddyrod My mom used to chat with this girl from China in the 90's and early 2000's but then China got control over the internet and now her friend is not allowed to go to any site or program where she can communicate with Americans. So I don't know how accurate that statement is about them having TOTAL control over the internet. There is only a couple of dissident bloggers that are constantly under attack by the Fascist regime. China = not Communism even the Soviets thought they were bullshit
MadXMax187 9 months ago 14
@MadXMax187
that doesn't make any sense because I can comunicate with my friends in China easily using skype and msn messenger. Your mom hasn't tried getting in touch with her lately or her friend must've switched to a different client. I say listen to this guy, and then go travel to China dude. It is worth a trip. So much history. China is an interesting country. If you are thinking of starting something up like a business. China isn't too bad of a place to do this in.
lordblazer 9 months ago
@lordblazer Strange, maybe her friend doesn't have time anymore or something. Who knows, I remember watching some shit awhile ago where they built the largest skate park in the world in Shanghai it looked pretty tight, but the Chinese looked like they had some work to do when it came to landing harder tricks. Maybe its because my mom exposed her friend to some news about a local river in China that had been polluted her friend wasn't aware of.
MadXMax187 9 months ago
@MadXMax187
that makes no sense.... It takes a lot more to catch the gov'ts eye. To be honest though they are quite paranoid in China, with the exception of Shanghai and Beijing. But this is my experience as a black american. Hong Kong is quite racist . Macau everyone thought I was brazilian and only spoke to me in portugese. Anyway dude. I spent a lot of time in China. I say you and your mom should go and visit. Save up money for a yr and get a tkt and go.
lordblazer 9 months ago
@lordblazer: your experiences of China are interesting. I'd like to read more about them. I'm a U.S. citizen, but originally from Hong Kong. As far as racism in HK is concerned, it may be due to the way the British treated the Chinese there when they were running it, rascism goes both ways.
danpt2000 9 months ago
@danpt2000
I'm only telling you my experience of HK racism from the perspective of a black american. It wasn't because I was American. It had more to do with me being black. The extra security that my two white friends didn't have to do that I did every time. Police asking for my passport then the harassment that followed as to how a black person is able to have an American passport. It isn't just a HK thing. Its a Southeast Asian thing because the HK wasn't the only place like that.
lordblazer 9 months ago
@danpt2000
Other than that Southeast asia is still not anywhere as bad as Oklahoma xD
lordblazer 9 months ago 2
@MadXMax187
Me and a few friends want to eventually start up a night club in Shanghai and try to make it trendy. I know a few australians that are living and working in Hangzhou and Shanghai. I know people in Kunming one dude from Ghana, and another dude from the US both have their own english language schools. For both of them China was a place to work and save up money they spent quite a lot of time there, and the landscape of China is constantly changing. there is sooo much energy in china.
lordblazer 9 months ago
@MadXMax187 But basically China is what I wish Japan was more like. I mean seriously Chinese are quite tough people man. Very aggressive, very rude, the line does not exist. A lot of people have a me first attitude, but with this comes a strong sense of duty, and community more so than the Japanese. The Chinese are a lot more honest, and open about expressing their emotions than the Japanese are. That's why I like China. Japan I like for the interesting people I've encountered in my life there
lordblazer 9 months ago
@MadXMax187 are you sure?
what kind of communication software your mom uses...?
cuz most Chinese in China uses Chinese communication softwares
eg: Tencent QQ (there is a english international version)
I used it to communication with friends in China...(from Canada)
*by the way... QQ has way more functionalites than MSN Live Messenger... or any other english messenger clients that I know of....
cedarvaleave 8 months ago
Sounds like a certain eliteism or class system developing because of what wealthi is producing.
davidperi 9 months ago
@davidperi
yea. Though China has quite a large middle class (larger than the US population). By percentage though they're quite insignificant and only limited to the cities in China. Places like Shanghai while fucking awesome has a lot of billionaires and poor people and a very small urban middle class. I've been to China twice both times spending a month there. The first time having to hitch hike(banks froze my account O.O) and sooo it was cool, second time a research trip.
lordblazer 9 months ago
The Chinese government holds the party line when it suits them. In regards to population control, social restrictions and politics. But for the most part their main focus is business. What he does not touch on is dramatic consumer inflation is taking hold in China. Yes, I will tell you from being here that food prices have risen A LOT in the past two years. Also, even though there are a lot of college graduates - the jobless rate for recent grads is 50%.
clearasvodka 9 months ago
@clearasvodka
When in China do you live. I traveled through the east coast back in 2009 and I spent time in Yunnan Province mostly in Kunming at Yunnan University back in 2010. MY experience in China had a lot to do with the African diaspora living there. Seeing that I am black american. It is the same for when I was living in Japan up until late March of this year. Anyway there was a person on here that said that its impossible to talk to americans in China. tell him this is not true.
lordblazer 9 months ago
Comment removed
bulldogger 9 months ago