I think Pilots are one of the most brave professionals. Even when they are face to face with death they follow their trainnings and try to save as many lifes as possible
Too bad this happened as the plane was still flyable even with the snow accumulation. All engine gauges were reading accurate except one, the EPR (exhaust pressure ratio) gauge. The N1(RPM) gauge told them the truth, but they did not look at it. Had they selected the engine anti-ice on, this never would have happened. We use engine heat anytime the outside temp is 10 C or below with visible moisture / precipitation present.
Makes no damn since. BS When hell freezes over and the devil skate on ice. Not sitting on a plane in those conditions. Would have kicked ass just so i can get off the damn plane. Just swinging, head butting, i will climb up your back jump off your head if need be. My life is precious, and GOD agrees. Season pilots make a fatal judgement error.
I believe the final report from NTSB showed that they used reverse thrust to assist movement, they did not do a 2nd de-iceing and the endine de-icers were off not on, thus when they thought they had 100% power they were actually only at around 65/70%. There was NO indication of a bird strike at all. Pure pilot error by guys who were not used to the conditions.
This was truly an accident waiting to happen. Neither pilot had any measurable time in this type weather. Pitot tubes frozen, skewed EPR readings from pitot-static instruments, no anti-icing engaged and deregulation (October 1978) creating a situation where AIR FLORIDA is serving airports with winter conditions. As a sidebar ~ I served as Station Manager for Aero America Airlines in the late 70's & early 80's and we regularly used reversers to move our B707 A/C out of the gate at Spokane.
@MrRonnieG Most of the post here do not know what they are talking about, except you. MrRonnieG has it right.I was a pilot during this time and this is what happened. They were not at actual take off power, but the guages told them they were. If an expierenced pilot and/or a good old boy Piedmont Airlines pilot had been flying it you would have found the aircraft at the end of all the pieces that came off the engines when the throttles were pushed to the stops. They would not have hit the bridge
Air Florida was a scary airline. I flew them from Newark NJ to W. Palm Beach and back. The landing in Newark was awful, and the crew was just a bunch of kids!
The MAIN PROBLEM was not that he used the reverse thrust and put ice on the wings, is the pilot forgotten to on the Anti-Ice Switch. Thumps up if i am right.
The accident was caused by an overanxious captain of a KLM 747 who took off without having permission to do so.
A DUTCH pilot had his moment where he caused the DEADLIEST accident in aviation history.
Granted, the ATCs had communication problems with both aircraft, but it all would have been prevented had the captain not jumped the gun and took off without clearance.
My point: all pilots, no matter what country they hail from, can make deadly mistakes.
It strayed off its flight plan and accidentally into Soviet territory numerous times. This provoked a response that resulted in the aircraft being shot down by a Soviet fighter pilot.
The crew managed to crash land an aircraft, whose engines failed from bird strikes, on the Hudson river COMPLETELY INTACT. Only skill and a little bit of luck could manage that feat.
I'm just going by what was concluded in the accident investigation. It didn't say anything about the computer disabling the engines.
The physical evidence indicated that both engines ingested Canadian geese and, as a result, both engines sustained severe damage that resulted in failure.
Just a correction. I'm a Operations Agent and pilots never do reverse thrust "to assist pushback". An average towcar is already 30 tons.So they dont need to be assisted.Only assist they need just dont start the engines so early if it is a lighter towcar..As i told before,just a correction. Regards,
@kenosape A powerback (using reverse thrust to pushback) poses a risk of FOD and possible injury to people on the ground, not to mention using a lot more fuel than a tug. When a powerback does or did happen, it tends or tended to be with tail mounted aircraft, mainly the DC-9/MD-80. The risk of FOD is lower on these machines due to the engines being mounted fairly high and not slung under the wing. This sort of operation was present in smaller airports where ground equipment was not as redible.
@hammerogod Thats what i mean. If a towcar or a towbarless car şis connected they never assist.It may cause big fatalities or accidents.But if nothing is connected "even if not recommended" they may do reverse thrust which may take your lungs of your body.
Not to mention blowing stuff all over the ramp...which I have also seen happen.
I knew a guy with at Wiley Post in OKC who backed his Turbo Maule INTO his T-Hanger....it took skill but he did it all the time. (he pulled ahead of the Hanger, held the brake and made a reverse turn before backing up...sweet move)...when he left he just drove the thing out...that kept the Hanger REAL clean.
We called him "The FOD King".
He was a Pipeliner for Koch..those guys ain't right in the head.
Once i had seen a Tupolev 154 did reverse thrust.Ramp couldnt find an avaliable towbar for that so they had to.I did not connect the headset because of FOD risk.But believe me even if i was standing 20 metres far from the craft,while reverse thrust i thought a nuke was dropped beside me.That was incredibly loud.
@kenosape You are absolutely right...i am also a Operations Agent and for my own safety i would never want a pilot to do something like a reverse thrust to assist me with a pushback...in the event that a towcar is slipping out there in the snow and cant fully push the plane out which doesnt happen often since they are suppose to have chains on the wheels to deal with that kind of bad weather then im sure they would contact whatever maintenance they need to to come out there and clear the road
@kenosape You sir are completely wrong on that one. I am a pilot, after I was myself an "operations agent" at JFK (and I hope you are not a baggage handler assuming the title of your superiors to sound cool...). Reverse-trust push-back is used at certain facilities by pilots discretion and with prior permission from the airport/terminal authority. One airport where you see it all the time is Dallas Fort Worth. It is engage in mostly by MD-80 and similar jets with rear/high-mounted engines.
@kmerszei First of all i am an operation agent who you owe your life,if you know what load and balance control means and im assuming you are an FO if not a purser. Anyway if you read what i wrote at first,while connected to a tug you can not reverse thrust.If you are not towing a towcar though. Anyway,dont forget that the last thing you see at an airport is my thumb up and i know how much you like and want to see many times...
@kenosape But in this instance it did. Its a major error but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It was a contributing factor to the crash into the bridge.
It was a mistake that killed most of the people on board, 4 people on the ground and put the whole airline called Air Florida out of buisness. This airline had great potential and it was only a few years in operation but it took this one disaster to bankrupt it.
love the monday morning quarterbacking from most of you...u a pilot?? got your wings?? been in the navy? shut up!!!..while tragic and perhaps preventable, how dare any of you act like you know more.
EPR sensors iced over!! They were at half power on the takeoff roll hence the long takeoff roll. All they had to do was to firewall the throttles at the first sign of problems after rotation. This should be instinct. Sure the wings were iced, which contributed but little power will get you no where.
As far as I know, the mechanic had flipped the ice-system from "auto" to "manual" to make some repairs and then forgot to put it back. The crew, who never touched that switch, just never thought about it.
There was actually a lot of debate as to whether the first officer said "on" or "off" on the CVR to the de-icing request, but these pilots made many more mistakes. Using reverse thrust to try to back up in the snow; failing to de-ice again after a long delay; pulling it's nose to the tail of a DC-9 on the tarmac in an attempt to melt snow off the plane. All FAA violations. Even after they got a stick shaker warning of an eminent stall they still didn't increase engine thrust until the crash.
The amount of mistakes by this crew has made flying safer today. We must learn from past mistakes and try not to repeat them. The major issue I have in addation to not turning on the de-icer is using reverse thrust to push off from the gate. I hope no one who flies fixed wing will ever do this again.
There were a lot of rumours in the 80s that amongst the Air Florida pilots were loads of alcoholics. That´s another big problem in aviation. my father, for example, drank with pilots of Lacsa (Costa Rican airline) back in 1983 until 4 hours before these pilots had to take off. Forget about "24 hours from the bottle to the throttle"... nowadays I would say that there´s 20 % alcoholics flying airplanes around worldwide (and not the little ones but 737/747/767).
I flew once with Air Florida in 1982 from Miami to San Jose in Costa Rica and these idiot-pilots (worst ones ever recruited by any airline worldwide) from Air Florida didn´t consider the downfalling winds round San Jose (city´s engulfed by mountains) and they tried to land three times, aborting three times before they landed on the fourth try. There was a sickening sound to the gear, the gear actually took damage, that´s how hard these idiots landed the 737.
The pilots were untrained, incompetent and arrogant. They were in a hurry because of delays in air traffic, also they were afraid the airport would close due to the horrendous weather. The ice crawled up the air-intake for measuring speed and caused the controls to indicate a false higher take-off speed so the 737 stalled. Then, after the plane stalls, these pilot-idiots pull the plane up even further instead of giving full throttle. They didn´t de-ice twice because they wanted to save time...
Youve got to remember that pilots are human and sometimes make inexcusable errors. Inexcusable because the consequences usually change peoples lives. Pilots can have a bad day but are trained not to. ALL PILOTS ARE NOT EQUAL. Thats why I propose a resume and review of each pilot (and career mistakes) in whose hands i put my life in, on booking, each time. Then I dont have to fly with an accident waiting to happen. No offence to the "i forgot to de ice" pilot.
3. They taxied short behind a DC 9 to use it´s exhaust to de-ice. Sorry, this can´t work out.
4. They didn´t use the anti-ice system. This was even part of the checklist ! This must not happen. Every student pilot knows about the existence of this system and uses it. Not only in winter ! That was absolutely negligent and inexcusable.
5. Early during takeoff they noticed that something is wrong. They were before V1 at that time. So they had to aboard the takeoff. But they didn´t.
I don´t agree with those who are trying to advocate the flightcrews acting. They made more than one mistake that sad day.
1. They did not ensure that the plane was free of snow and ice. The last de-icing was long ago. So they failed to check it again before taxi. There was snow and ice visible on the plane.
2. They used reversethrust to help pushing back the plane. They had to know that this was very dangerous. Reversethrust is only allowed at landing and above 80 knots.
That mistake is like taking off on a taxiway or landing without a runway.... and reading the comments bassically saying "you can't do any better" I disagree only on this video, WHO forgets to De-Ice, I mean WHO? Nonetheless, I feel sad for those on board :(
It's very easy to talk s**t about the crew's actions when you are sitting in front of a computer with nothing better to do. But the truth is that these pilots were under a lot of stress, not only because of the weather conditions but also because the flight was way behind schedule. They did make a mistake (a horrible one), but you've got to remember that there are a lot of factors that contribute to a crash. It's never a single random error.
@ryannewman4life1 Well for one I would have pushed the throttle levers through the firewall if I needed to instead of leaving them at stand up and wondering what was going on. So yes, I would have done better.
Actually they did try to reverse from the gate, when they realized that it was too slippery because of the packed ice under the plane. They had to be pulled back normally.
@GoLfErgio92@GoLfErgio92 If you're serious then you're a moron, OPSPEC C065 authorizes it for air carriers, provded it's approved (in this case, I'm willing to bet it was).
Besides, if the airline manufactures had a bit of sense they would fit a system so that if the pilots forgot to turn on the de-icing system and the computers detected ice the system would automatically turn on the de-icing system itself. Does anyone agree with me. Surely its a simple thing that can be done to stop so many people dying over a problem with a simple solution. Please rate my comment.
@jonny2k100 B737 have no DEICE systems installed. The pitot-static probes, control cabin windows, tat probe, engine inlet cowl, and wing leading edges are ANTI ICED. Huge difference as anti prevents ice from forming and deice removes ice that is already there.
@Mandy7D7 , the fuck are you talking about?? After the last De-Ice they had to wait for traffic infront of them to takeoff, and during this time, snow accumulated on the wings and in the pitot tube, giving false IAS and causing the aircraft to become overweighted. After rotating, the stalled, proceeding to crash into the patomac.
@walawalawingding The pitot-static probes did not ice up the Pt2 probe in one or both engines did. Pt2 is the pressure in the inlet of the engine that probe can be anti-iced (NOT deiced) via the engine antiice system. Because cowl/engine ice was turned off pt2 was blocked (by ice) and caused pt2 to be low EPR (engine pressue ratio the prime indication of thrust for a jt8d) was artifically high.
I heard those guys had a history of disregarding protocol, both by the airline, and Boeing. This is another example of how carelessness and shortcuts cost lives.
It wasnt snow in ice being sucked into the engine that caused the crash. The slush was sucked into the thrust sensor on the front nose cone of the engine causing faulty thrust readings. They were below the minimal safe takeoff speed even though their thrust readings were showing sufficent thrust, which cause them to stall while trying to clime.
The slow takeoff speed, ice/snow buildup on the wings from being de-iced to early and not being de-iced again, pilot inexperience, and poor de-ice mixture all lead to this crash. Any experienced piot knows not to use reverse thrust in those conditions.
Also if I remember correctly they didn't have the engine anti ice turned on which aided in the buildup of ice in that thrust sensor inlet.
While the pilots ultimately crashed the plane, it wasn't entirely their fault, as they hadn't been properly trained in snow/ice.
It's easy to point fingers at them, but they had limited knowledge. You have to remember this was during a time of massive deregulation of the industry, and Air Florida took advantage of that by not fully training the pilots in order to maximize profits, figuring the odds of this happening were too low.
@originalGawwad you are right my friend no one is perfect BUT this mistake almost comes to negligence you just dont do that in snow,not even in dry conditions,someone from ground staff could be hurt, and after the de-icing procedure is just common sense or if you do so you have to ask for another de-icing,you can omit any safety procedure just for a hurry,better be late that never be....
continued: the captain should have realized that his engines were "cold" as the f/o told him, slamming the throttles to full power with the reversers engaged. A tragedy of errors, and mostly caused by the flight deck crew.
I have listened to the cvr of this aircraft several times. In my opinion , during the pre takeoff checks, the f/o clearly responded "on" to the check of the deicers. To some it sounded like he said "Off", but there is no way it sounded like "off". The cockpit crew were southerners, we pronounce the word "on" as "own". Very distinctly different from the way we pronounce "off". There is no question in my mind that the first office clearly said "on".
except for the fact that they reviewed the tapes over and over and over again and digitally annalized them and the FAA concluded that the captain said off.
The captain of the flight had failed 2 check rides and had very little experience in snow and ice conditions. The FO was a good pilot with military experience, and he raised important questions at key points in the sequence. However, he did not have snow and ice experience either. Also, neither pilot did a walk-around prior to leaving the gate to monitor the de-icing effort. And, the Eastern plane closing in may have stopped the FO from taking control and rejecting the take-off.
Yeah but read the offical NTSB report and you realise the pilot made a tremendous number of errors before taking off.
Sucking ice and snow into the engines, following another plane too close causing ice to melt and then refreeze on the plane, and then worst of all not turning on the planes de-icing system.
Also a horrible controller error. If Palm 90 had aborted its takeoff prior to V1 (which was clearly indicated), there was a very real chance that they would have been struck by an Eastern Airlines B727 that touched down on the same runway while Palm 90 was in its takeoff run! How much this influenced the pilots (especially the co-pilot) to continue a clearly bad takeoff will never be known.
It is 100% the pilots fault! It is their resposibility to ensure the aircraft is airworthy before take-off. Anytime an aircraft is contaminated in anyway it is the responsibility of the flight crew to ensure it is taken care of regardless of whether perform the actions to clear the contamination or not. You can't blame the loss of hundreds of lives on ice and snow dude, use your head!
No - It is a chain of events, not just the pilots clear errors. The B737 was more prone to pitch and roll with even a little ice and snow on the wings. Even with proper de-icing, the time from gate to take-off often exceeded the time that the de-icing was effective.
The pilots could have simply rejected take-off prior to V1 - except that an Eastern 727 was on the runway landing while they were taking off, and they could have been hit. No one will ever know how much this influenced the pilots.
there is footage of the rescue. It is heartbreaking. Air Florida flight 90 crashed into the Potomac river on 14th street bridge in January in frigid, icy waters. the rescue took a long time and was filmed.
I lost someone I loved on this flight, so all of you people arguing about race and meaningless stuff like that, would you kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP? Is that posible? Shut the fuck up and hope that you never lose someone you love in a plane crash? I hope and pray that you DO, but until that day, shut the fuck up. Just shut, the fuck, UP!
6 did. The Flight attendant was rewarded for giving her lifejacket to a passenger. over all 1 FA and 5 passengers survived. The Pilot and Co-pilot perished.
Good remake. As I pilot I do not know why they proceded with that take off. It was a wonder they even got off the runway! The FO was right it was not right, If I was him I would have retarded the throttles and said we are not doing this. But we all have learned from this.
I think Pilots are one of the most brave professionals. Even when they are face to face with death they follow their trainnings and try to save as many lifes as possible
cramtoro 4 days ago
even when the pilots knew they were going down they still didn't initiate full throttle because of noise abatement rules...incredible
kissklassics 2 weeks ago
Too bad this happened as the plane was still flyable even with the snow accumulation. All engine gauges were reading accurate except one, the EPR (exhaust pressure ratio) gauge. The N1(RPM) gauge told them the truth, but they did not look at it. Had they selected the engine anti-ice on, this never would have happened. We use engine heat anytime the outside temp is 10 C or below with visible moisture / precipitation present.
OlesonMD 3 weeks ago
Makes no damn since. BS When hell freezes over and the devil skate on ice. Not sitting on a plane in those conditions. Would have kicked ass just so i can get off the damn plane. Just swinging, head butting, i will climb up your back jump off your head if need be. My life is precious, and GOD agrees. Season pilots make a fatal judgement error.
BOOM7STAR 1 month ago
No way I would take off in those conditions after sitting on the taxiway for 90 minutes. Sorry folks, but the plane is going back for de-icing.
LateNightCable 2 months ago
"youre going down larry...."
"i KNOW" BOOM
trigman2000 3 months ago
I believe the final report from NTSB showed that they used reverse thrust to assist movement, they did not do a 2nd de-iceing and the endine de-icers were off not on, thus when they thought they had 100% power they were actually only at around 65/70%. There was NO indication of a bird strike at all. Pure pilot error by guys who were not used to the conditions.
freddieclark 3 months ago
This was truly an accident waiting to happen. Neither pilot had any measurable time in this type weather. Pitot tubes frozen, skewed EPR readings from pitot-static instruments, no anti-icing engaged and deregulation (October 1978) creating a situation where AIR FLORIDA is serving airports with winter conditions. As a sidebar ~ I served as Station Manager for Aero America Airlines in the late 70's & early 80's and we regularly used reversers to move our B707 A/C out of the gate at Spokane.
MrRonnieG 3 months ago
@MrRonnieG Most of the post here do not know what they are talking about, except you. MrRonnieG has it right.I was a pilot during this time and this is what happened. They were not at actual take off power, but the guages told them they were. If an expierenced pilot and/or a good old boy Piedmont Airlines pilot had been flying it you would have found the aircraft at the end of all the pieces that came off the engines when the throttles were pushed to the stops. They would not have hit the bridge
navajopa31 3 months ago
Air Florida was a scary airline. I flew them from Newark NJ to W. Palm Beach and back. The landing in Newark was awful, and the crew was just a bunch of kids!
Pakamen1 4 months ago
@kenosape you're a tool. Go back to sucking your boyfriend off nobody owes you shit jack off
Bigsausageboy 4 months ago
The MAIN PROBLEM was not that he used the reverse thrust and put ice on the wings, is the pilot forgotten to on the Anti-Ice Switch. Thumps up if i am right.
Rexang1 4 months ago
American pilots suck.
Snapscape 5 months ago
@Snapscape
Let's revisit Tenerife.
The accident was caused by an overanxious captain of a KLM 747 who took off without having permission to do so.
A DUTCH pilot had his moment where he caused the DEADLIEST accident in aviation history.
Granted, the ATCs had communication problems with both aircraft, but it all would have been prevented had the captain not jumped the gun and took off without clearance.
My point: all pilots, no matter what country they hail from, can make deadly mistakes.
Watcher3223 4 months ago
@Snapscape
Here's another.
Korean Air 007.
It strayed off its flight plan and accidentally into Soviet territory numerous times. This provoked a response that resulted in the aircraft being shot down by a Soviet fighter pilot.
Watcher3223 4 months ago
@Snapscape
And an example of good American pilots:
U.S. Airways 1549
The crew managed to crash land an aircraft, whose engines failed from bird strikes, on the Hudson river COMPLETELY INTACT. Only skill and a little bit of luck could manage that feat.
Watcher3223 4 months ago
@Watcher3223
The engines did not fail; the Airbus's computer idled them.
bethpage89 3 months ago
@bethpage89
The engines ingested birds that were heavier than what was accounted for in their engineering.
They failed because they were damaged to the point where they could no longer function to provide motivation for the aircraft.
Watcher3223 3 months ago
@Watcher3223
Was either engine even damaged? The computer overruled the pilots and idled them. It did not shut them down.
bethpage89 3 months ago
@bethpage89
I'm just going by what was concluded in the accident investigation. It didn't say anything about the computer disabling the engines.
The physical evidence indicated that both engines ingested Canadian geese and, as a result, both engines sustained severe damage that resulted in failure.
Watcher3223 3 months ago
are they making popcorn in the cockpit
smeltedcheese 5 months ago
A catalog of stupid decisions that lead to a disaster.
goombabear 6 months ago
the captain use also the reverse trust for pushback :(
CrYsTaL0796 6 months ago
nICE flight
HerrMeawonnah 6 months ago
ok im only a teen and i eveon would know when 2 turn on the deice
BThoreson09 7 months ago
We're going down!..-- I KNOW!!!!
GekkoKamen 7 months ago in playlist aircrash clips
What airtran use to be?
Awesomeness6699 7 months ago
Noob? or lol?
manuellcamelo 7 months ago
no one cares, you walk avross a street in america people will try to hit you
30inventionman 7 months ago
Just a correction. I'm a Operations Agent and pilots never do reverse thrust "to assist pushback". An average towcar is already 30 tons.So they dont need to be assisted.Only assist they need just dont start the engines so early if it is a lighter towcar..As i told before,just a correction. Regards,
kenosape 7 months ago 17
@kenosape A powerback (using reverse thrust to pushback) poses a risk of FOD and possible injury to people on the ground, not to mention using a lot more fuel than a tug. When a powerback does or did happen, it tends or tended to be with tail mounted aircraft, mainly the DC-9/MD-80. The risk of FOD is lower on these machines due to the engines being mounted fairly high and not slung under the wing. This sort of operation was present in smaller airports where ground equipment was not as redible.
NickGarrettIsCool 7 months ago
@kenosape
" pilots never do reverse thrust "to assist pushback"
Not to "Assist" but to actually move the aircraft away from the gate without the assistance of a tug is not uncommon.
I worked on the ramps at OKC (Will Rogers Intl) and DFW Intl.
I have seen Turboprops and Jets do it many times (both Corporate and Commercial).
If you are saying that it never happens when the aircraft IS attached to a tug then I would say you are probably correct.
Never seen that happen.
hammerogod 6 months ago 2
@hammerogod Thats what i mean. If a towcar or a towbarless car şis connected they never assist.It may cause big fatalities or accidents.But if nothing is connected "even if not recommended" they may do reverse thrust which may take your lungs of your body.
kenosape 6 months ago
@kenosape
Not to mention blowing stuff all over the ramp...which I have also seen happen.
I knew a guy with at Wiley Post in OKC who backed his Turbo Maule INTO his T-Hanger....it took skill but he did it all the time. (he pulled ahead of the Hanger, held the brake and made a reverse turn before backing up...sweet move)...when he left he just drove the thing out...that kept the Hanger REAL clean.
We called him "The FOD King".
He was a Pipeliner for Koch..those guys ain't right in the head.
hammerogod 6 months ago
@hammerogod You are damn right!
Once i had seen a Tupolev 154 did reverse thrust.Ramp couldnt find an avaliable towbar for that so they had to.I did not connect the headset because of FOD risk.But believe me even if i was standing 20 metres far from the craft,while reverse thrust i thought a nuke was dropped beside me.That was incredibly loud.
kenosape 6 months ago
@kenosape You are absolutely right...i am also a Operations Agent and for my own safety i would never want a pilot to do something like a reverse thrust to assist me with a pushback...in the event that a towcar is slipping out there in the snow and cant fully push the plane out which doesnt happen often since they are suppose to have chains on the wheels to deal with that kind of bad weather then im sure they would contact whatever maintenance they need to to come out there and clear the road
Sbeezy229 6 months ago
@kenosape You sir are completely wrong on that one. I am a pilot, after I was myself an "operations agent" at JFK (and I hope you are not a baggage handler assuming the title of your superiors to sound cool...). Reverse-trust push-back is used at certain facilities by pilots discretion and with prior permission from the airport/terminal authority. One airport where you see it all the time is Dallas Fort Worth. It is engage in mostly by MD-80 and similar jets with rear/high-mounted engines.
kmerszei 5 months ago
@kmerszei First of all i am an operation agent who you owe your life,if you know what load and balance control means and im assuming you are an FO if not a purser. Anyway if you read what i wrote at first,while connected to a tug you can not reverse thrust.If you are not towing a towcar though. Anyway,dont forget that the last thing you see at an airport is my thumb up and i know how much you like and want to see many times...
kenosape 5 months ago 8
@kenosape what is 'operation agent', 'load and balance control', 'FO', 'purser', 'tug'?
markyboy28able99 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
kmerszei 5 months ago
@kenosape Think you will find they DID use reverse thrust as its highlighted in the NTSB report!!
andrewboyle1 4 months ago
@kenosape But in this instance it did. Its a major error but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. It was a contributing factor to the crash into the bridge.
supramanz 2 months ago
Comment removed
adam3176 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@kenosape Thats not true.. In the ICE they Have a Hard time PUSHING the plane.. I worked With those guys
adam3176 3 weeks ago
@kenosape I have been on a plane which used reverse thrust to back out of the gate.
58trojan23 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
ninjadude92584 8 months ago
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Rednaxela311 9 months ago
It was a mistake that killed most of the people on board, 4 people on the ground and put the whole airline called Air Florida out of buisness. This airline had great potential and it was only a few years in operation but it took this one disaster to bankrupt it.
duncan7599 9 months ago
People survived that.
MASON1246 9 months ago
love the monday morning quarterbacking from most of you...u a pilot?? got your wings?? been in the navy? shut up!!!..while tragic and perhaps preventable, how dare any of you act like you know more.
Ensconced70 10 months ago
EPR sensors iced over!! They were at half power on the takeoff roll hence the long takeoff roll. All they had to do was to firewall the throttles at the first sign of problems after rotation. This should be instinct. Sure the wings were iced, which contributed but little power will get you no where.
A3002nde 10 months ago
Microsoft Flight Simulator 2004.
MyVideoHubOnDell 11 months ago
As far as I know, the mechanic had flipped the ice-system from "auto" to "manual" to make some repairs and then forgot to put it back. The crew, who never touched that switch, just never thought about it.
TheKollav 11 months ago
There was actually a lot of debate as to whether the first officer said "on" or "off" on the CVR to the de-icing request, but these pilots made many more mistakes. Using reverse thrust to try to back up in the snow; failing to de-ice again after a long delay; pulling it's nose to the tail of a DC-9 on the tarmac in an attempt to melt snow off the plane. All FAA violations. Even after they got a stick shaker warning of an eminent stall they still didn't increase engine thrust until the crash.
zenmachinefilms 1 year ago
The amount of mistakes by this crew has made flying safer today. We must learn from past mistakes and try not to repeat them. The major issue I have in addation to not turning on the de-icer is using reverse thrust to push off from the gate. I hope no one who flies fixed wing will ever do this again.
tsaguyinnlr 1 year ago
wwwwwwwwooooooooooowwwwwwww...........
that is one STUPID mistake the pilots made
TheCelsojr 1 year ago
If the two pilots had not died.... they would be IN PRISON right now
angrygynecologist 1 year ago
yes, and the pilot said loud, when the checklist was done, de-ice OFF
unbelievable :O
SuperApple1995 1 year ago
AAAAAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA lolololololololololol!!!!!!!!!
YouGotJEWD 1 year ago
There were a lot of rumours in the 80s that amongst the Air Florida pilots were loads of alcoholics. That´s another big problem in aviation. my father, for example, drank with pilots of Lacsa (Costa Rican airline) back in 1983 until 4 hours before these pilots had to take off. Forget about "24 hours from the bottle to the throttle"... nowadays I would say that there´s 20 % alcoholics flying airplanes around worldwide (and not the little ones but 737/747/767).
schwarzerkuerbis 1 year ago
I flew once with Air Florida in 1982 from Miami to San Jose in Costa Rica and these idiot-pilots (worst ones ever recruited by any airline worldwide) from Air Florida didn´t consider the downfalling winds round San Jose (city´s engulfed by mountains) and they tried to land three times, aborting three times before they landed on the fourth try. There was a sickening sound to the gear, the gear actually took damage, that´s how hard these idiots landed the 737.
schwarzerkuerbis 1 year ago
The pilots were untrained, incompetent and arrogant. They were in a hurry because of delays in air traffic, also they were afraid the airport would close due to the horrendous weather. The ice crawled up the air-intake for measuring speed and caused the controls to indicate a false higher take-off speed so the 737 stalled. Then, after the plane stalls, these pilot-idiots pull the plane up even further instead of giving full throttle. They didn´t de-ice twice because they wanted to save time...
schwarzerkuerbis 1 year ago
Drugs! is the problem, legal & illegal!!
Zyvex10 1 year ago
more FS shit
boaterbil 1 year ago
How many ppl lost their lives?
awesomeness1290 1 year ago
Youve got to remember that pilots are human and sometimes make inexcusable errors. Inexcusable because the consequences usually change peoples lives. Pilots can have a bad day but are trained not to. ALL PILOTS ARE NOT EQUAL. Thats why I propose a resume and review of each pilot (and career mistakes) in whose hands i put my life in, on booking, each time. Then I dont have to fly with an accident waiting to happen. No offence to the "i forgot to de ice" pilot.
marialovesmarvin 1 year ago
Part 2/2
3. They taxied short behind a DC 9 to use it´s exhaust to de-ice. Sorry, this can´t work out.
4. They didn´t use the anti-ice system. This was even part of the checklist ! This must not happen. Every student pilot knows about the existence of this system and uses it. Not only in winter ! That was absolutely negligent and inexcusable.
5. Early during takeoff they noticed that something is wrong. They were before V1 at that time. So they had to aboard the takeoff. But they didn´t.
Slaterator 1 year ago
Part 1/2
I don´t agree with those who are trying to advocate the flightcrews acting. They made more than one mistake that sad day.
1. They did not ensure that the plane was free of snow and ice. The last de-icing was long ago. So they failed to check it again before taxi. There was snow and ice visible on the plane.
2. They used reversethrust to help pushing back the plane. They had to know that this was very dangerous. Reversethrust is only allowed at landing and above 80 knots.
Slaterator 1 year ago
C'mon, cut them some slack! They had very little experience in snowy conditions. It's on the aircraft. Air FLORIDA!!!
255nwa 1 year ago
That mistake is like taking off on a taxiway or landing without a runway.... and reading the comments bassically saying "you can't do any better" I disagree only on this video, WHO forgets to De-Ice, I mean WHO? Nonetheless, I feel sad for those on board :(
NemoRahul 1 year ago
a pilot cant ever make that mastak
dupasraca 1 year ago
It's very easy to talk s**t about the crew's actions when you are sitting in front of a computer with nothing better to do. But the truth is that these pilots were under a lot of stress, not only because of the weather conditions but also because the flight was way behind schedule. They did make a mistake (a horrible one), but you've got to remember that there are a lot of factors that contribute to a crash. It's never a single random error.
stevenseagullWTF 1 year ago
I sat in stunned silence for a good 10 or 20 seconds after hearing the crash. Absolutely chilling.
tvpirate05 1 year ago
WT*!
winchitox270 1 year ago
What A**holes and retards
MrIssues2 1 year ago
where did you get the plane?
FS9757 1 year ago
im tried everyone diss the pilots if they i would like you do any better
ryannewman4life1 1 year ago
@ryannewman4life1 Well for one I would have pushed the throttle levers through the firewall if I needed to instead of leaving them at stand up and wondering what was going on. So yes, I would have done better.
archer49d 1 year ago
@archer49d no you would have shitted your pants no stop trying to be cool because everyones ur not
ryannewman4life1 1 year ago
@ryannewman4life1 You sound like a pissed off 15 year old with no friends. Now go down to the basement where you belong.
archer49d 1 year ago
damn,it seems like everytime a plane is about to crash,you here that eeerie rattleing sound.
tinoman2007 1 year ago
iItseems to me that most crashes are due to plot error!Why on earth would they take off with visible ice on the wings?
bornblond9gb 1 year ago
@bornblond9gb you can't see the window from the cockpit :)
The flight attendants should have noticed it though..
stevenseagullWTF 1 year ago
@bornblond9gb sorry! i meant wings not "window"
stevenseagullWTF 1 year ago
We are good at doing challenging things once.
We make mistakes doing easy things several times.
NFX425 1 year ago
When the pilot failed to get line speed he should have run it off the end of the runway. Don't take your problems into the air.
49bobbyk 1 year ago
reverse thrust to assist in the push back? That's the most stupid thing I've ever heard, that's not true...
GoLfErgio92 1 year ago
@GoLfErgio92
Actually they did try to reverse from the gate, when they realized that it was too slippery because of the packed ice under the plane. They had to be pulled back normally.
Tiger99g 1 year ago
@GoLfErgio92 @GoLfErgio92 If you're serious then you're a moron, OPSPEC C065 authorizes it for air carriers, provded it's approved (in this case, I'm willing to bet it was).
archer49d 1 year ago
Since when planes pushback with reverse trust?That's insane cannot be true
fsxdosmildos 1 year ago
Is a mestake they forgot to put anti-ice we know no anti-ice in snowey days May this happen
TheAmessz 1 year ago
Only five people survived this crash. It was very sad day for one of the survivors because she lost a baby and her husband in the crash. Very sad.
TornadoSponge12390 1 year ago
Between 0:53 and 1:10 is that the stick shaker "popping"
InvaderZim871 1 year ago
where is that air florida because i live in the state florida of the usa you know and it never snows here in florida! only once!
pablo12345th 1 year ago
@pablo12345th Air florida 90 was departing from Washington DC,not florida :).
bobnoxadrez 1 year ago
forgot the sharp ascent typical of 737's with iced wings, and crash in stall attitude
jfsa380 1 year ago
Besides, if the airline manufactures had a bit of sense they would fit a system so that if the pilots forgot to turn on the de-icing system and the computers detected ice the system would automatically turn on the de-icing system itself. Does anyone agree with me. Surely its a simple thing that can be done to stop so many people dying over a problem with a simple solution. Please rate my comment.
jonny2k100 1 year ago 4
@jonny2k100 B737 have no DEICE systems installed. The pitot-static probes, control cabin windows, tat probe, engine inlet cowl, and wing leading edges are ANTI ICED. Huge difference as anti prevents ice from forming and deice removes ice that is already there.
beerbrewer737 1 year ago
What flight simulator is that?
MastrPwnr72 1 year ago
"were going down Larry...I know" hard to hear
thermo1984 1 year ago
Shameful pilots killed 78 people through their pig headed arrogance for training and the rules.
Mandy7D7 1 year ago
@Mandy7D7 , the fuck are you talking about?? After the last De-Ice they had to wait for traffic infront of them to takeoff, and during this time, snow accumulated on the wings and in the pitot tube, giving false IAS and causing the aircraft to become overweighted. After rotating, the stalled, proceeding to crash into the patomac.
walawalawingding 1 year ago
@walawalawingding The pitot-static probes did not ice up the Pt2 probe in one or both engines did. Pt2 is the pressure in the inlet of the engine that probe can be anti-iced (NOT deiced) via the engine antiice system. Because cowl/engine ice was turned off pt2 was blocked (by ice) and caused pt2 to be low EPR (engine pressue ratio the prime indication of thrust for a jt8d) was artifically high.
beerbrewer737 1 year ago
@walawalawingding Never mind the fact that they didn't set power correctly.
archer49d 1 year ago
I remember reading about Lenny Skutnik, the man who jumped into the icy river to rescue a passenger from drowning.
I'm pretty sure there's a picture of him in the dictionary next to the word "hero".
dmuth 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
MUST BE AMERICANS
ISniffDirtyPanties 2 years ago
I heard those guys had a history of disregarding protocol, both by the airline, and Boeing. This is another example of how carelessness and shortcuts cost lives.
theschoolofchuck 2 years ago
What kind of Airline would hire a flight crew like this....God they must have been 2 idiots flying that plane.....
How5by5 2 years ago
i hate it wen ppl say ohh mr mom deid ohh my family died.u ppl should not belive it coz it is a lie.they just want to get atension
kurdman12345678 2 years ago
@kurdman12345678 you dont know that keep thinkn that homie
xXBRETT972558Xx972 2 years ago
It wasnt snow in ice being sucked into the engine that caused the crash. The slush was sucked into the thrust sensor on the front nose cone of the engine causing faulty thrust readings. They were below the minimal safe takeoff speed even though their thrust readings were showing sufficent thrust, which cause them to stall while trying to clime.
ryan33111 2 years ago
The slow takeoff speed, ice/snow buildup on the wings from being de-iced to early and not being de-iced again, pilot inexperience, and poor de-ice mixture all lead to this crash. Any experienced piot knows not to use reverse thrust in those conditions.
Also if I remember correctly they didn't have the engine anti ice turned on which aided in the buildup of ice in that thrust sensor inlet.
ryan33111 2 years ago
While the pilots ultimately crashed the plane, it wasn't entirely their fault, as they hadn't been properly trained in snow/ice.
It's easy to point fingers at them, but they had limited knowledge. You have to remember this was during a time of massive deregulation of the industry, and Air Florida took advantage of that by not fully training the pilots in order to maximize profits, figuring the odds of this happening were too low.
Sadly, many people lost their lives as a result.
zenmachinefilms 2 years ago
the pilot was from police academy,the movie
diztanguy 2 years ago
still respect You have nt been on the cockpit
jeTROGIBBS 2 years ago 3
WHAT!!!!!!!!!!??????REALLY!!!???they made that stupid mistake???how could be posible for a pilot do that???gosh!!!
jorgemdllin 2 years ago 26
@jorgemdllin HINT: They are human.
Pilots are not some super-human species uncapable of making errors.
originalGawwad 8 months ago
@originalGawwad you are right my friend no one is perfect BUT this mistake almost comes to negligence you just dont do that in snow,not even in dry conditions,someone from ground staff could be hurt, and after the de-icing procedure is just common sense or if you do so you have to ask for another de-icing,you can omit any safety procedure just for a hurry,better be late that never be....
Cheers
jorgemdllin 8 months ago
@jorgemdllin ive seen someone that forgot about their landing gear lol
MrFlyguy124 7 months ago
continued: the captain should have realized that his engines were "cold" as the f/o told him, slamming the throttles to full power with the reversers engaged. A tragedy of errors, and mostly caused by the flight deck crew.
rmachayes 2 years ago 2
my grandfather died from this when my mom was only 13
13danagirl 2 years ago 5
I have listened to the cvr of this aircraft several times. In my opinion , during the pre takeoff checks, the f/o clearly responded "on" to the check of the deicers. To some it sounded like he said "Off", but there is no way it sounded like "off". The cockpit crew were southerners, we pronounce the word "on" as "own". Very distinctly different from the way we pronounce "off". There is no question in my mind that the first office clearly said "on".
rmachayes 2 years ago 2
except for the fact that they reviewed the tapes over and over and over again and digitally annalized them and the FAA concluded that the captain said off.
sk8more1015 2 years ago
i never thought someone could FORGET to turn on the de-iceing system in the middle of winter!
ned987 2 years ago 33
ned987
The captain of the flight had failed 2 check rides and had very little experience in snow and ice conditions. The FO was a good pilot with military experience, and he raised important questions at key points in the sequence. However, he did not have snow and ice experience either. Also, neither pilot did a walk-around prior to leaving the gate to monitor the de-icing effort. And, the Eastern plane closing in may have stopped the FO from taking control and rejecting the take-off.
ard767 2 years ago 2
@ned987 Actually, what's ridiculous about this incident is that the pilots didn't forget, at all. They actually said on the cockpit recording:
First-officer: "It's a losing battle trying to de-ice these things. It gives you a false feeling of security, that's all it does."
Captain: "Well, it satisfies the Feds [government regulators]."
discountbacon 1 year ago
@ned987 they dont always need to cuz planes get de iced on the tarmac and usually get to an altitude without icing before ice forms
piloty5 1 year ago
@ned987 Happened to me on a Spirit Airline flight once before, they JUST remembered to do it RIGHT before we took off. :S
LadyVanDaele 10 months ago
bad and stupids pilots.
talcaforever 2 years ago 2
It wasn't all of the pilots' fault. It was mostly the ice and snow that accumulated on the wings causing the airplane to stall and crash.
LightningFever86 2 years ago
Yeah but read the offical NTSB report and you realise the pilot made a tremendous number of errors before taking off.
Sucking ice and snow into the engines, following another plane too close causing ice to melt and then refreeze on the plane, and then worst of all not turning on the planes de-icing system.
Bad piloting all around.
spyder357 2 years ago 2
That's also true...
LightningFever86 2 years ago
Also a horrible controller error. If Palm 90 had aborted its takeoff prior to V1 (which was clearly indicated), there was a very real chance that they would have been struck by an Eastern Airlines B727 that touched down on the same runway while Palm 90 was in its takeoff run! How much this influenced the pilots (especially the co-pilot) to continue a clearly bad takeoff will never be known.
ard767 2 years ago 2
It is 100% the pilots fault! It is their resposibility to ensure the aircraft is airworthy before take-off. Anytime an aircraft is contaminated in anyway it is the responsibility of the flight crew to ensure it is taken care of regardless of whether perform the actions to clear the contamination or not. You can't blame the loss of hundreds of lives on ice and snow dude, use your head!
jpar84 2 years ago 2
Yeah, someone already told me that. It's just that I'm too nice, lol. Sorry.
LightningFever86 2 years ago
No - It is a chain of events, not just the pilots clear errors. The B737 was more prone to pitch and roll with even a little ice and snow on the wings. Even with proper de-icing, the time from gate to take-off often exceeded the time that the de-icing was effective.
The pilots could have simply rejected take-off prior to V1 - except that an Eastern 727 was on the runway landing while they were taking off, and they could have been hit. No one will ever know how much this influenced the pilots.
ard767 2 years ago 2
omg
mmdghr 2 years ago
there is footage of the rescue. It is heartbreaking. Air Florida flight 90 crashed into the Potomac river on 14th street bridge in January in frigid, icy waters. the rescue took a long time and was filmed.
melly918 2 years ago
Is it in this footage that a woman, blinded by jet fuel, gets rescued by a guy who jumps into the icy water ?
justmiau 2 years ago 3
"we are going down man~"
"I knoooww!!"
[booooommm~]
bnssapp 2 years ago
This captain was a moron and had NO buisness driving a pickup truck let alone flying an airplane.
koolbossjock 2 years ago
very nice
theKing4720 2 years ago
Was that FSX or FS9?
kmcguire76 2 years ago
"X" is roman number 10, FS is Flight simulator,
IMediaCorp 2 years ago
FS9 i can tell because of the water
ned987 2 years ago
I lost someone I loved on this flight, so all of you people arguing about race and meaningless stuff like that, would you kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP? Is that posible? Shut the fuck up and hope that you never lose someone you love in a plane crash? I hope and pray that you DO, but until that day, shut the fuck up. Just shut, the fuck, UP!
ericlovesjudy 3 years ago
ericlovesjudy,
sorry of your loss
nese67 3 years ago
The 737 hit the potomac bridge crushing a car and its occupant. It then somersaulted into the river. There were only a few survivors.
jerseyscampi 3 years ago
I believe 5 survived
nese67 3 years ago
6 did. The Flight attendant was rewarded for giving her lifejacket to a passenger. over all 1 FA and 5 passengers survived. The Pilot and Co-pilot perished.
AirCanada04 3 years ago
5 passengers survived, only 4 passengers and the FA made it out of the water.
Irishkeeth 2 years ago
how come you never show the crashing part of the accident?
maryoassyrian2007 3 years ago
Out of respect.
thisischavez 3 years ago
Once the plane crashes.. there's not much to show.. the CVR data stops.
After that the only way to find out what happend to the plane and passengers is from physical data.
Photo's and measurements.
If you want to see that type of stuff order a final investigation crash report from the NTSB...
There very interesting.
zbeast 2 years ago
When Did This HAPPEN?
SailorVenus91 3 years ago
jan. 1982
kristar31 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
nice video that was fake right?
777janek 3 years ago
.... it was a simluation of the actual crash. Are you freaking blind...
DevilsMourn 3 years ago 3
No Its Fake, Of course Not, Look at the picture on the end, Its real! 6 Survivors. Get your facts right!
AirCanada04 3 years ago
The facts are: 6 survived the crash, only 5 made it out of the water.
Irishkeeth 2 years ago 2
No, both pilots were killed.
Konerko72 3 years ago 2
Were either of the pilots any of the five that survived?
johnsmithfsx 3 years ago
What runway did he try to take off from?
Stitch1626 3 years ago
this is one of the funniest arguments... looking at you guys from a european standpoint.
Only in the US of A. ;)
DeVizardofOZ 3 years ago
Yeah, hahahhahahaha little europe doesn't have a crime problem...oh wait...
Alfrunk 3 years ago
Excuse me? You know nothing of our country, go worry about your lack of sovereignty and being overrun with muslim hoardes. Disgusting wannabe idiot.
Alfrunk 3 years ago
Good remake. As I pilot I do not know why they proceded with that take off. It was a wonder they even got off the runway! The FO was right it was not right, If I was him I would have retarded the throttles and said we are not doing this. But we all have learned from this.
EF2000CanFly 3 years ago 2
omg..R.I.P ???
coolglock19 3 years ago
Good Remake...I heard the CVR and was wondering were they were in it
rec711 3 years ago