Top Ten Misconceptions About Catholics -- Part 1

[DovefromGod]

@kickdrum182 I have a question. Why is it that the Catholics churches have the American flag in them (Most even have the gold-fringed flag)? I will NEVER enter a church, protestant or Catholic that has an American flag in it. This nation has murdered 54 Million innocent babies. I'll become Catholic when Pope Benedict forces all nations to get the flag out! What boundaries does Catholicism have on this earth? NONE! (I'm looking to become Catholic but won't yet until the country's flag is out).

[kickdrum182]

@DovefromGod - That's a very good question, and I don't have an easy answer. I'm pretty sure that there is *not* any norm which requires a flag inside of the church, but then again I don't know of any norm restricting their usage either (other than "Environment and Art in Catholic Worship" n. 101, which advises use on only "special holidays").

[DovefromGod]

@kickdrum182 OK, thank you for responding.

[kickdrum182]

@DovefromGod - Catholic theologians like Michael Baxter would agree with you - there is much about the USA (e.g. Roe v. Wade) inimical to Catholic teaching, and so giving prominent place, especially within the sanctuary, to a symbol of that country ought to give us pause. But given that Catholic bishops regularly speak out about unchristian things in US culture (like abortion), one can't take the (perhaps ill-advised) presence of the flag to be a wholesale endorsement of all things "American."

[DovefromGod]

@kickdrum182 I sort of see what you're saying here. However, I must say that abortion is just one issue I can't even begin to imagine how awful it must be in God's eyes. Take for example, we allow divorce+remarriage but that is a single sin. Abortion is like a network of sins that I know comes from the pit of hell. I would rather give thanks to the priests in person for what they do than "Pledge allegiance to the flag" that represents 54 million dead and counting.

[kickdrum182]

@DovefromGod Abortion is an awful reality, and thankfully Catholics are working to stop it by both speaking out against its legal status and by establishing hundreds of crisis pregnancy centers to assist struggling mothers-to-be. I agree that symbols (like the flag) are powerful things (even if we never "pledge allegiance" to it at Mass), and it probably shouldn't be in the sanctuary. But I think this is a matter of *consistency* rather than a lack of Catholic resolve against abortion.

[bheadh]

Another thing our "protesting" freinds might want to consider is the parallels in The Passover and Jesus' life. God commanded Moses to take an "Unblemished Lamb" , "Sacrifice It"..(There can be no salvation without the sheding of blood) "sprinkle the blood on the doorposts (Christs saving blood opens the "doorposts" of our hearts) They were then commanded to EAT the sacrificed Lamb. Many belivers "fell away" because "this is a hard saying" It is most important teaching of Jesus. "I will be with

[danilusable]

Mary is already with God in heaven. She is the mother of Jesus! There is no impossible when u are already in heaven. Mary had given the title Hyper Dulia means high veneration, she had a unique characteristic because she 's special . Well, BTW, we have our different style of veneration, so don't judge catholics, the intention is the most important! :D

[SSmithProductions]

QUESTION: When one prays to Mary, isn't that giving Mary attributes of GOD? Mary cannot hear everyone that prays to her at the same time like GOD, right? Praying to Mary is like calling Mary omnipresent...that's a feature of GOD only.

I would appreciate a response.

[kickdrum182]

@SSmithProductions - great question. No human (incl. Mary) becomes an equal with God by gaining all of God's attributes - rather, the blessed of heaven participate in God's life (1Pet 1:4). Moreover, as Rahner said, death is not simply "changing horses" - we are glorified and changed in the next world. This radically new existence, glorified and in God's life, can account for Rev 5:8, which Catholics traditionally interpret to mean the saints are aware of (and relaying) our prayers on earth.

[Gaijin071]

God is our Creator and Heavenly Father!

We already have Jesus as Our ONLY Way! (John 14:6)

And the Holy Spirit that Guides Us Everyday Anytime and anywhere!

God used Mary as the Mother of Jesus on EARTH! no more no less!

Do we Worship Moses? Joseph? David? Peter? Esther? NO!

Give GOD what he wants..

its your choice.. God Bless..

[kickdrum182]

@Gaijin071 Indeed, we Catholics do not worship Moses, Joseph, David, Peter, nor Esther. Worship belongs to God alone!

[Gaijin071]

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the FORM of ANYTHING in HEAVEN above (God, Jesus, SAINTS, ANYONE) or on the EARTH BENEATH (Satan, Devil, Dead) or in the waters below. Exodus 20:4

You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God... Exodus 20:5 (Notice that God is jealous when someone gives to another something that rightly belongs to Him..) like praying to mary or saints?

[kickdrum182]

@Gaijin071 Key part of that text: an *idol*. As soon as one starts treating a statue, a saint, Mary, a Bible, a rosary, a car, a career, money, etc. as if that thing were God (i.e. treating it as an idol), then they have violated Catholic teaching.

[mmmail1969]

"Where the Catholic church is, there is Jesus Christ."

St. Ignatius Bishop of Antioch: circa 104AD

"Where there is Peter, there is the Church."

St. Ambrose Bishop of Milan: 4th century AD

[CurlyWee]

A Roman Catholic saved by grace? Is this a joke?

[kickdrum182]

@CurlyWee Check out the Lutheran and Catholic Joint Declaration on Justification. There it is written:

"Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works."

[CurlyWee]

@kickdrum182 yes this is a joint declaration...but is this what scripture says????

[kickdrum182]

@CurlyWee Your initial point was that we Catholics don't believe that we're saved by grace. This declaration disproves that. Now, what part of the declaration do you find contrary to Scripture? Accepted by God through grace, faith in Christ's saving work, Spirit calling us to life of good works... what's objectionable?

[aubhar]

1. still idolatry. 2. wrong. john 3:16 not by good works 3. adoration is same as worship. 4. statues everywhere and stations of the cross. 5. you believe in good works.

[seanom23]

@aubhar of course you need good works revelation 20:13 and also dont satan and the evil spirits know that Jesus is lord and saviour and they believe this and yet they're in hell?

[Gaijin071]

@seanom23 the reason they're in hell is because Lucifer(Satan) wants to surpass God, thus they were sent to hell along with his Angels(Devils)...

[matteojrini]

In the bible it says the true christian church existed since the apostolic generation on. That means no protestants and non-denominationolists are right (they arose in the middle ages) Then there is Orthodox and Catholithism which used to be one church before the split of the roman empire in about 400 AD. So it is one of the 2 that is right.

[ClockworkOrangeABC]

@matteojrini

"Then there is Orthodox and Catholithism which used to be one church before the split of the roman empire in about 400 AD. So it is one of the 2 that is right."

Well the split between East and West occurred more like in the 10th century, which says even more! And if the Catholic Church is false and made up rituals and beliefs, then why do the Orthodox believe the same things? Wouldn't they resemble a protestant church more than the Catholic Church?

[thinkerj]

I am sorry, but regardless of how you twist the matter - if you say that works are a decisive factor with respect to whether or not a person will be saved, then you definitely "work your way to heaven". Works of charity are the fruits of salvation - not a precondition for it. God's grace is "accepted" (not sure if I'm comfortable with that choice of word), or rather received, by *faith*. Your gratefulness and love to God will then manifest in good works.

[kickdrum182]

I guess I'm open to the possibility of "acts of faith" or a "life of faith" whereas you seem to suggest that it's a purely intellectual matter (and non-intellectual matters are entirely subsequent).

But, just as you (I imagine) would say that intellectual faith isn't something we "do" to "exact" salvific grace from God, but it is rather a gift from God by which we receive grace, so I say a (not solely intellectual) life of faith operates along the same lines.

[pbaylis1]

@thinkerj

I'm amazed that people who claim to base everything on the bible fail to acknowledge what the bible actually says time and time again. It is not WE who say that works are an essential part of salvation. IT IS THE BIBLE which says it. It is PAUL who says we must work out our salvation with fear and trembling. Works are not fruits of salvation. How many people do you know who become instant saints on accepting Christ? It doesn't work in real life, it's not spiritual and not biblical.

[Cymakil]

typical idolatrous hypocrisy we don't pray TO them we pray THROUGH them, Shi'ite muslims say the same thing about their saints - both groups are hypocritical retards

[kickdrum182]

your own language sufficiently undermines your case - I'll let it stand at that! :o)

[SAYYOURROSARY]

A real Catholic would just say "Outside the Church there is no salvation " and leave it at that so people would convert .

You "New Orderists" are so liberal

it smells . Your liberal understanding of Baptism of Desire is appalling and vile .

Jews need not convert ? Mulims are "holy" .....kissing Korans ? Yea O.K. !

If the "p0pE" kisses it so revently maybe you should read it ! kikdumb420

[kickdrum182]

"Real Catholics" don't just accept a provincial reading of Florence ("extra ecclesiam..."), but rather accept *all* of the Councils (including Vatican II).

Even prior to Vatican II, such a reading of "extra ecclesiam", held famously by Fr. Feeney, was condemned by the Holy See!

Heck, even a quick google search will show that the Angelic Doctor himself spoke of baptism by desire and implicit faith (ST III q69 a4; STh II-II q2 a7 ad3).

I'll stick with Vatican II, Pius XII and St. Thomas!

[zacinfinite]

Nice Try, But even then in place like India where Hindus worship Idols, Catholics set a really bad example of Christian worship.

For Hindus its only Christianity and they see catholics bowing before statues of mary and saints. They ask me why should they convert to christianity, as christians are also idolaters!

I can't tell them that im protestant and they r catholics! In that case they say first unite with your own people then come to us!

Any Advice?

[kickdrum182]

They are onto something there; the need for Christian unity is real!

You could make it clear that no true Christian (including Catholics) worships an idol. As the video states, statues, icons, etc. provide tangible testaments to the reality of the Incarnation, the history of God's salvation, and paradigmatic Christian lives; Catholics do not worship or pray to them.

Perhaps in a culture accustomed to "tangible" worship and liturgy, such practices (properly explained) may be a helpful bridge.

[zacinfinite]

I tried to tell them that catholics dont worshi idols they just respect them.

But these Hindus have a very strong point! They say, "we too dont worship idols but only respect"!

Cant u people just stop bowing down to statues? Its clearly written that YOU SHALL NOT BOW DOWN TO THEM NOR WORSHIP THEM.

Even if ur not worshipping idols yet U r bowing down to them! Ur breakin commandment.

[1acount]

saints were PASSING on other peoples prayers,it just said prayers of the saints, and when was there a book of jas?what do you mean by say "yes"you say yes by gracethrough faith,this guys playing word games now,and when christ said this is my body,he meant it symbolicly,he didnt tell people to worship bread,that is idolatry,what kickdrum182said would be like interpreting that when christ said about the wine,that "this is the new testament in my blood"that"lets go

[kickdrum182]

"Jas" is an abbreviation for "James."

Saying "Yes" to God is exactly what it sounds like: God offers us his grace through many ways in the world. Jesus invites us to be his disciples and to fellowship with him by following his teaching and life; acting with love in the world is a way of responding ("Yes!") to this invitation.

And "New Testament" was not used to refer to Scripture until the time of Irenaeus (150 years after Jesus' death)...your analogy is a bit off.

[1acount]

exodes 20,"thou shall not make any graven image or any likeness of anything that is IN HEAVEN ABOVE(the' saints'),or is in the earth beneath,your making greven images and then ASKING a graven image to give you something,ayour asking a graven image to pray for you,and you see nothing wrong with this,this is idolatry no matter how you try to disguise it,and what he said about revelations,it didnt say in the bible that the

[kickdrum182]

As I said in the video [4:16], if you interpret Ex 20 that strictly (all depictions, on heaven and earth), Num 21:8 and Ex 2:18 are pretty hard to swallow. Depictions *which replace God* are idols and are forbidden.

We do not ask depictions for anything: we do ask saints (living in Christ, and whose likeness is rendered as a reminder in a depiction) to pray for us.

There is no book of "revelationS." And anyone will tell you that it has been interpreted many ways throughout history.

[mscoas6]

This is really nice..like the others here..if people disagree with us then so be it...I just wish they were actually informed about that of which they can be so critical...thanks again and let us all pray for more understanding

[persie31]

yeah.i prefer this this kind of converstaion.we want to reach understanding not chaos and selfishness.God bless us.

[heartofmygod]

Great video ! :)

[adifferentvu]

#1- An engraving image is what it is #2 Mary was a random selection for God she is only a virgin. #3 Love the lord thy God.. It does not go on to say Pope, Mother Mary, e.c.t. #4 God wrote with his spirit, therefore you should read with your spirit. A real Christian will believe when the entire WORLD is taken away from him. Meaning Catholics would just be screwed without their world like objects and people. Read again my friends. God is not about any of this crap HE LIVES IN YOU.

[chloerr99]

the only person who need to pray is we on earth here...we are the one who should pray to Jesus..and there's no need to pray for those who are dead..their judgement are set..that's why we need to repent of all our sins..unless we repent, we will die in our sins! Even Mary need to live his life holy to win his salvation! Jesus is GOD and GOD created Mary!

[chloerr99]

well, when we die, there's only two place..hell or heaven..even praying to mary is a sin! why? if i pray to you..is it a sin? that's why! because mary is just an ordinary women who gains god's favor..we must know that Jesus is God and he came here to this world as human flesh! and i heard some said that they had to pray to mary so that mary will help us to ask forgiveness..is that what you think bout jesus? jesus is faithful and forgive all our sins is we repent!

[FiftyNineBeads]

Done very well, thank you.

God bless you.

[2853787]

It is good to know that there are people who will defend my faith. The video is very concise and respectful of everyone.

It can get a little tough when so many scorn you for things that aren't even true. Thank you for putting this up and confronting those things.

[junmeskie]

IDOLATRY

======== JAPANESE BOW TO OTHER PEOPLE ==========

God commands images made. Exodus 25:18-22, Exodus 26:1,31, Numbers 21:8-9,

Solomon's temple: statues and images. 1 Kings 6:23-29, 35, 7:29

====== FILIPINOS KISS THE HANDS OF THEIR ELDERS =======

[CameraReadyAction]

Excellent!! As is the other one!  Pax Tecum!

[chichirismuse]

Thank you so much for putting this up. Seriously.

[trapspeed97]

Idols constitute money, sex, fame, power, television, Hollywood and other things that humans choose to worship over God. That is what idols are because if you examine Ancient Israel at the time the Ten Commandments are released, there was rampant adultery, love for banking only, and wine to get drunk on. Jesus recognizes this when he flips the money tables over when he goes into the Temple. He told the leaders to stop worrying about counting money and stop polluting the Father's house.

[christianityTHEWAY]

become a Christian. drop your Traditions. The end

[kickdrum182]

If you stop confining the meaning of "Christian" to "one who worships in exactly the same way that I do," you might see the Holy Spirit at work in a surprising number of places.

I find it sad that your eyes are closed to God's activity within the Catholic Church; as I point out in the video (#10), this is not the Catholic attitude toward non-Catholics.

I would be wary of calling people non-Christians; doing so denies the Spirit's presence in them, and denying the Spirit isn't good (Mt 12:31).

[RockyBalboa211]

Or you could stop denying Jesus, and join his church, god bless!

[kickdrum182]

Who's denying Jesus here?

[RockyBalboa211]

...sorry.. um it seems this comment was for another video, gosh when I put this up It was like 3 in the morning and tired lol.. wow.. um sorry about that, merry christmas and God bless. Also great video and Go notre dame!!

[nightcrwlr01]

in the story of moses there is a time after he leads the jews out of egypt that they are being attacked by snakes or serepents and such. Moses then takes this problem before God. God orders Moses to construct a statue of a Bronze serpent and those who pray before it are healed from the poison of the snakebites. one example of praying before statues

this is the only example i can remember off the top of my head. when i get the bible in front of me ill post something else :). hope this helps

[kickdrum182]

Yes, this story is in Num 21, which I cite in the video around 4:15.

[turiel3]

2 Kings 18:4

He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

[kickdrum182]

I cited the passage about the bronze serpent to show that since God ordered it to be made, there is obviously no problem with the making of a statue. The problem is when IT is treated as if it were God (idolatry). The passage you cite above (2Kgs 18:4) is a (good!) reaction against idolatry.

If you can show me a group of Catholics who think that a statue is God, and treat it as such, then feel free to quote this passage at them and tell them it ought to be destroyed.

[turiel3]

Yes in that case it was okay because God commanded the image to be made. I have no record that shows that God commanded any of the saints the catholic church reveres so much. There may be something out there that I haven't read, but from what I know God never commanded catholics to make saints out of anybody.

[kickdrum182]

Technically, Catholics don't *make* saints. God, by his grace, makes a person a saint. The Catholic Church, after recognizing a person's holy life, *declares* that the person is a saint (a holy one who now shares heavenly life with God). It is a matter of acknowledging where God is at work.

In order to remember these holy lives, sometimes Catholics keep pictures or statues as tangible reminders, just as many keep pictures of family members at home. We are all part of the same body (1Cor12).

[kickdrum182]

It's not so much the statue that is revered, but the life of the person who is recalled by that representation. God teaches us to honor our parents (Ex 20:12) and spouses (1Pet 3:7, Eph 5:22,25), and showing honor and respect to fellow Christians is exhorted by Paul (1Cor 11:17ff).

Since the making of statues isn't inherently bad (God has in the past commanded it to be done, after all), it's one way to show such honor (so long as the representation is not worshiped/does not supplant God).

[turiel3]

God makes us saints by His grace. 1 Corinthians 11:17 was taken completely out of context, it in no way supports your position.

Exodus 20:4

Thou shalt not make unto thee ANY graven image, or ANY LIKENESS of ANY THING that is in heaven above(God, Jesus, angels, saints, stars, planets) or that is in the earth beneath(demons, satan, dead), or that is in the water under the earth.

I understand that tangible objects are good reminders, but it still seems to me like it violates the quoted commandment

[catchzz]

Look further in Exodus & God commanded that a statue be made:

Exodus: 25:1820

Does God contradict Himself, or could it be He forbade the worship of statues, not the religious use of statues to be a visible reminder of the invisible realities?

If you really want to learn more, here is an honest video: watch?v=cpXnRbgOM74

This guy knows his stuff as he is a convert. He was once a protestant preacher. To hear more of his story check this 4 part video out:

watch?v=w6JwWJWbsbs

[martalog121]

the (the Jews)were ordered to LOOK at the brazen serpent NOT pray to it!!!

[kickdrum182]

...nor do Catholic pray to statues...

[BigDink57]

kickdrum182: Thanks for clearing some things up here. Now, will the headless and heartless pay attention? Before I gave my life to the Lord...I was an atheist...I hated everything Christian....but even then - through all of that hate, I was intelligent enough to realize that Catholics, Orthodox, Anglican's were not worshipping idols. If I were still an atheist, I would use some expletives here...praise his Name! I am not - so I will not. God Bless You!

[1acount]

worship the bible,he didnt mean it,niether did he with the bread,worshiping an object is idolatry and blasphemy,and ounce a cathlic emailed me and said that if i wasnt a cathlic i was going to hell,when the bible never said that

[kickdrum182]

Catholics do not teach that all non-Catholics go to hell. They do not even teach that all non-Christians go to hell. Lumen Gentium, Gaudium et Spes, and Unitatis Redintegratio make this very clear.

[turiel3]

then what happens to non catholics and non christians?

[kickdrum182]

Salvation remains a possibility. Regarding non-Catholic Christians:

"It follows that the separated Churches and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church" (Unitatis Redintegratio n. 3).

[kickdrum182]

Regarding non-Christians:

"...All this holds true not only for Christians, but for all men of good will in whose hearts grace works in an unseen way. For, since Christ died for all, and since the ultimate vocation of man is in fact one, and divine, we ought to believe that the Holy Spirit in a manner known only to God offers to every man the possibility of being associated with this paschal mystery" (Gaudium et Spes n. 22; cf. Lumen Gentium n. 16).

[turiel3]

WE all know catholics DO pray to statues, no matter how avidly they try to explain it away to make it seem like they don't.

[LSDrumline08]

how would u know are you somehow miracusely tapping into their minds...let people believe and have faith its up to them. Maybe you should look at your own faults and quit judging others for theirs

[turiel3]

and what happens to that same serpent later on in 2 Kings 18:4? I quote straight from the Bible:

He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.

How do you explain this away?

[kickdrum182]

(see my reply in the other place where you quoted this)

[Ankabaranka1]

great video! I was searching on the 'net for something like this and you didnt disappoint :)

[berserker1223]

This is all just a bunch of lies catholics make up, they just twist the words of god, I mean you say you dont worship idols, so then why are you bowing down to a statue, why not jesus? But then a catholic will say "I am thinking about jesus as I bow to the statue." It is a whole load of bull, I am not stupid. Dont insult my intelligence!

[kickdrum182]

Cross-check my statements about idolatry et al with the official teachings of the Catholic Church: seriously, you'll find the same teaching in the Catechism, encyclicals, and conciliar documents. Perhaps there are some Catholics that worship statues, but I've never met one, and one who did would be disobeying the teaching of the Catholic Church. It sounds to me like you want to believe your own misconceptions so badly that you close your eyes and ears to other possibilities.

[kickdrum182]

Perhaps this might help: there are many times when I read the Bible that I'll bow my head and begin praying to God, with the Bible right there open in front of me (perhaps you've done the same). This doesn't mean I'm praying to the Bible, or even bowing to the Bible! Its content has simply assisted me in arriving at a state of reverence and prayerfulness towards the Lord. A statue of Christ on the cross can remind me of his saving act just as like Jn 19: but I don't worship them, only Christ.

[fredlburrows]

Catholics = class

[jahizhim]

idol worship is forbid. Statue of mary and thers should not exist.

[kickdrum182]

Ah, but you missed the point of #4 on the video: statues in Catholic churches are not "idols", because they are not worshipped and they do not replace or take glory from God! God has no problem with statues existing (see 4:16 in the vid). Real Catholics use statues and icons in a way very different from what constitutes idolatry (see 4:45 in vid).

[rasero27]

Also, I'm not sure if you've seen things like "La Santa Muerte" which just seems like evil (Saint Death). It's supposedly the patron saint of drug traffickers, you see statues near the main freeway to Monterrey in Nuevo Laredo, Mexico.

I do enjoy John Michael Talbot's music, and have good Catholic friends; but certain things still deeply disturb me about the faith. I fellowship with many Jewish Christians who frankly feel very uncomfortable in a Catholic Church because of the statues, etc.

[kickdrum182]

I'm unfamiliar with the term "Jewish Christian". Are you talking about "Jews for Jesus" or members of a different group?

[rasero27]

Messianic Jew would be more appropriate. A Jewish person who has put his faith in Yeshua as the Christ (Messiah).

Jews for Jesus tend to have a different ideology than messianic Jews. Messianic Jews still hold to their ancient, biblical, Jewish customs yet proclaim Christ as the long awaited Messiah. There have been many Jews come to Christ in the past half century. If you are interested, I can show you the website of the congregation we attended, and their live streaming service.

[rasero27]

(The streaming services are quite good now. 10:40 a.m. on Saturday mornings. It is a large congregation of Jewish and non-Jewish believers in the Messiah. Since Judaism is the root of Christianity, you may see several similarities between the Mass and a traditional Jewish service (though the messianic congregation exalts Christ as the Messiah as compared to a regular synagogue).

Blessings

[Guardian1223]

"La Santa Muerte" is not Catholic. There is no such "saint" in Catholicism.

[rasero27]

I lived in Mexico for awhile and saw firsthand how many Catholics there were big on venerating statues, kissing images, shouting "Maria! Maria!" It sure seemed like idolatry to me, and Christ was always second-place. One of my American Catholic friends who is becoming a priest even acknowledges this grave error in Latin America. I know American Catholics are not as extreme. My question is, why doesn't Rome condemn Latin Americans' tendencies to idolize statues and images?

[kickdrum182]

All I can tell you is that anyone who puts a statue or even a saint before Jesus Christ, who is God, contradicts Catholic faith and isn't really Catholic. On the other hand, kissing a statue or image isn't necessarily idolatrous, for many acts can be symbolic: kissing an image of Christ may not signify devotion to the image, but may be an outward act expressing devotion to Christ himself. Sacramental life and symbolic action can be confusing without understanding what's motivating the act.

[rasero27]

I do agree. In a typical Jewish service (or even our messianic synagogue), when the Torah scrolls are walked around the sanctuary, most people will line up, touch the Torah, then kiss their lips. Out of reverence and respect to God's Word.

Our messianic Jewish congregation has done a lot of reconciliatory work with the Catholic church. We are not the typical "let's bash the Catholics for what they did to us Jews" type of place. We seek repentance on both sides and reconciliation. Blessings

[fredlburrows]

Besides, Mexicans are derived from native americans and Spanish, the Catholic side being the Spanish side naturally. They blended elements of the Catholic faith with traditional practices that they've used for many generations so you cannot say that this is the Catholic way. Their indiginous religions were heavily into symbols and such. Can't disregard them for that though, it is just their way that has been going on for probably longer than the Catholic church.

[rasero27]

That's a correct assessment. I lived in Mexico for some time and visit frequently, and the blending of Catholicism and pagan religions is known as "sincretismo". My main question though is that since the Catholic church yields such powerful influence over Latin America, why doesn't it just issue an edict of some sort to remind them to abandon their pagan traditions? It was always frustrating for me in dealing with certain people who placed more emphasis on traditions than Scripture down there

[rasero27]

.when I would ask why statues of Mary were above statues of Christ in their churches, the common response would be, "Well she's the Queen of the Universe and the Patron Saint of Mexico". As long as the Catholic Church remains silent, it will just continue to be an issue down there. What is the risk of the Church telling the Mexicans the truth? That they would convert to Protestantism? If you read the numbers, that is already happening in droves. An edict might prevent such an exodus.

[kickdrum182]

A decree like ch. 8 of Lumen Gentium? "There is but one Mediator as we know from the words of the apostle, 'for there is one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a redemption for all'. The maternal duty of Mary toward men in no wise obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows His power...In no way does it impede, but rather does it foster the immediate union of the faithful with Christ." Or one specifically for Latin America?

[nanabonniez]

Thank you so much for educating non catholics and catholics alike about what we really believe. Amazing how many people want to watch the lies and misconceptions about our church and do not want to see the truth.

[PeterMansour]

Thank you Thank you and God bless you.

In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Amen

[DivineLawliet]

God bless the church!