Incidentally, I'm not convinced the clubface completely dictates the line the ball starts on due to the length of impact between ball and face. You can put topspin on a tennis ball with the racket almost facing the floor. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong
The way to hit a "proper" draw is NOT with the face closed. The way to hit a proper draw is actually with the face open. With the use of Trackman, we've found that the club face is the main cause of where the ball starts, then it will spin away from the path. To hit a correct draw, you have to be swinging on an in to out path, with the face slightly open. The ball will start to the right and then curve back to the left. Look up the Trackman ball flight laws so you can see how to hit fades/draws.
@dsizemore81 All you guys that bash him are teachers? Maybe he could have explained it better but like I've said before, he came to the end of the range, saw what I was doing, and I said "Want to do a few tips?" He accepted. Every teacher does something different and explains different. All you need to say is "He's wrong in my opinion, watch my video instead"
@TheBizup I'm not allowed to have an opinion because I'm not a teacher? You're right, I'm not a teacher and I still know more than the guy in the video. It has nothing to do with explaining something differently. I get so tired of hearing that excuse. The information in the video is flat out inaccurate no matter how you explain it.
@dsizemore81 Sure you can have your opinion, that's why comments aren't off. I'm not saying Dan is right or wrong. Take it as you want it. I do know he's been a teacher forever and makes a good living doing it and he's one of the best golfers in So Cal even at his age.
@TheBizup See what you think of this vid which explains the reasons why a ball curves one way or the other: youtube.com/watch?v=Wnq6TiXw7wU
You can (emphasis on "can") draw the ball the way he's demonstrating in the vid. But, it relies too much on timing. If you roll your hands too much, you hit it left. If you don't roll them enough you hit it right.
@dsizemore81 I think what Dan is try to explain there is the feel you want to get for it. You don't ever want to roll your hands over or hold off unless you're trying something crazy in trees. Just for feel. Just like in my channel I have Joe explaining a draw. That's why I say everyone explains it different, maybe even wrong but the basics are usually there. For me, I do nothing like people explain. I just change my grip and it works for me unless I'm going for a tricky type shot.
@TheBizup I think you're indirectly confirming my point. The point is, the face doesn't dictate the curve of the ball. The face dictates where the ball starts and the differential between the face and path is what dictates the curve. To hit a draw you want an open clubface with and inside-out path. There isn't a time when you want to actively hold or roll your hands over; even in trees. This explains a lot as well: youtube.com/watch?v=i4sT7CXR8WQ
@dsizemore81 I see your point. I aim right, make a strong grip, aim my face at the target and swing and I get a draw. Do the other way, I fade. If needed I do roll my hands over or hold off. In fact I do it a lot. I'm no teacher, just a player that lives off feel. Doesn't mean I'm not doing what you're saying, I'm just feeling the shot. However, I've never opened my face to hit a draw, ever.
@TheBizup Sounds counter productive, I know. The idea is that your face will be open relative to your target which starts the ball right of your target but closed relative to your swing path. So, technically the face is closed to the path which is all you're doing by closing the face at address and swinging out the right. Difference being if the face is pointed at the target, the ball should start at the target and then draw left of it. If it doesn't, something else is happening.
@TheBizup Cont... But, there are a lot of people that don't know the correct ball flight laws (or care to know them). A lot of people have been taught since birth to do exactly what you do to hit draws and fades and that's fine. If you're happy with your game and the ball does what you want it to do, more power to you to keep on keepin' on. Thanks for the discussion.
@TheBizup I think the reason people bash him is because he clearly doesn't understand what he's doing. To say the rolling the face closed is a way to draw is really bad.....why not just close the face to start with if thats what you want and you take out the timing? He doesnt understand that you don't want a closed face at impact-it needs to be slightly open with a path more to the right to give spin. Then the ball starts right and draws. His method will give snap hooks-unless u time it
"why not just close the face to start with if thats what you want and you take out the timing? "
=
Definitely agree.
starting with a square clubface and relying on your ability to time it so the clubface is slightly closed at impact is just adding another variable in there that would be pretty hard to do consistently.
Keeping your SWING consistent and just closing the club at address would seem to be the most consistent and easiest way to pull this off.
@dschultz6072 No, when did I say that. Rhythm, tempo, timing are crucial. But why introduce extra timing elements into your technique, just through lack of understanding the ball flight laws. Snead would say "science and technology-use it to your advantage". Golf is timing and rhythm AND knowledge of ball flight laws and good technique.
This guy is wrong. I know what he's trying to say, but he's wrong. Ball starts off in the direction of the club face and difference between club face angle and path create the spin. It has NOTHING to do with where you contact the ball (left versus right). You have to hit out to the right (so contact left inside) to hit a draw!
@sonicdeviant your half right it does have nothing to do with where you contact the ball but the ball starts out where your swingplane is aiming and spins to where the face is aiming
@NolandStrike The modern theory of ball flight states that the ball's initial direction is 75% determined by where the club face is pointing at impact...the other 25% is swing plane. So the key is to aim the club face where you want the ball to start and then angle swing plane to various degrees to elicit more or less hook spin. The old adage that you aim the club face where you want the ball to end up will still result in a draw, but I guarantee that--it will not end up there (close maybe).
this is perhaps the most wrong advice I have every heard on drawing/fading the ball... it works the other way... as you come into the ball you strike the ball on the inner side (side towards you) while you are still closing the face putting a draw spin...
Its about 80% relation face 20% path
progolf233 2 days ago
@gatornate5. Aim right with club face aimed at target. Simples!
equigs 6 days ago
Incidentally, I'm not convinced the clubface completely dictates the line the ball starts on due to the length of impact between ball and face. You can put topspin on a tennis ball with the racket almost facing the floor. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong
fiftypeehead 1 month ago
Some good points on here. Good video but the comments are just as informative.
fiftypeehead 1 month ago
The way to hit a "proper" draw is NOT with the face closed. The way to hit a proper draw is actually with the face open. With the use of Trackman, we've found that the club face is the main cause of where the ball starts, then it will spin away from the path. To hit a correct draw, you have to be swinging on an in to out path, with the face slightly open. The ball will start to the right and then curve back to the left. Look up the Trackman ball flight laws so you can see how to hit fades/draws.
GatorNate5 1 month ago
Great instruction. Really helped me think about the mechanics of creating a fade. Can't wait to try it out at the range tomorrow.
TomokoMurakami 3 months ago
yeah lets just hit shanks all day. cheers
tension33 3 months ago
Comment removed
AmericansForGuns0com 4 months ago
Comment removed
AmericansForGuns0com 4 months ago
this video really helped me think about club face. thanks!
foundationx4 5 months ago
It's no wonder the average amateur doesn't ever improve. When you have people like this teaching them...
dsizemore81 5 months ago
@dsizemore81 All you guys that bash him are teachers? Maybe he could have explained it better but like I've said before, he came to the end of the range, saw what I was doing, and I said "Want to do a few tips?" He accepted. Every teacher does something different and explains different. All you need to say is "He's wrong in my opinion, watch my video instead"
TheBizup 5 months ago
@TheBizup I'm not allowed to have an opinion because I'm not a teacher? You're right, I'm not a teacher and I still know more than the guy in the video. It has nothing to do with explaining something differently. I get so tired of hearing that excuse. The information in the video is flat out inaccurate no matter how you explain it.
dsizemore81 5 months ago
@dsizemore81 Sure you can have your opinion, that's why comments aren't off. I'm not saying Dan is right or wrong. Take it as you want it. I do know he's been a teacher forever and makes a good living doing it and he's one of the best golfers in So Cal even at his age.
TheBizup 5 months ago
@TheBizup See what you think of this vid which explains the reasons why a ball curves one way or the other: youtube.com/watch?v=Wnq6TiXw7wU
You can (emphasis on "can") draw the ball the way he's demonstrating in the vid. But, it relies too much on timing. If you roll your hands too much, you hit it left. If you don't roll them enough you hit it right.
dsizemore81 5 months ago
@dsizemore81 I think what Dan is try to explain there is the feel you want to get for it. You don't ever want to roll your hands over or hold off unless you're trying something crazy in trees. Just for feel. Just like in my channel I have Joe explaining a draw. That's why I say everyone explains it different, maybe even wrong but the basics are usually there. For me, I do nothing like people explain. I just change my grip and it works for me unless I'm going for a tricky type shot.
TheBizup 5 months ago
@TheBizup I think you're indirectly confirming my point. The point is, the face doesn't dictate the curve of the ball. The face dictates where the ball starts and the differential between the face and path is what dictates the curve. To hit a draw you want an open clubface with and inside-out path. There isn't a time when you want to actively hold or roll your hands over; even in trees. This explains a lot as well: youtube.com/watch?v=i4sT7CXR8WQ
dsizemore81 5 months ago
@dsizemore81 I see your point. I aim right, make a strong grip, aim my face at the target and swing and I get a draw. Do the other way, I fade. If needed I do roll my hands over or hold off. In fact I do it a lot. I'm no teacher, just a player that lives off feel. Doesn't mean I'm not doing what you're saying, I'm just feeling the shot. However, I've never opened my face to hit a draw, ever.
TheBizup 5 months ago
@TheBizup Sounds counter productive, I know. The idea is that your face will be open relative to your target which starts the ball right of your target but closed relative to your swing path. So, technically the face is closed to the path which is all you're doing by closing the face at address and swinging out the right. Difference being if the face is pointed at the target, the ball should start at the target and then draw left of it. If it doesn't, something else is happening.
dsizemore81 5 months ago
@TheBizup Cont... But, there are a lot of people that don't know the correct ball flight laws (or care to know them). A lot of people have been taught since birth to do exactly what you do to hit draws and fades and that's fine. If you're happy with your game and the ball does what you want it to do, more power to you to keep on keepin' on. Thanks for the discussion.
dsizemore81 5 months ago
@TheBizup I think the reason people bash him is because he clearly doesn't understand what he's doing. To say the rolling the face closed is a way to draw is really bad.....why not just close the face to start with if thats what you want and you take out the timing? He doesnt understand that you don't want a closed face at impact-it needs to be slightly open with a path more to the right to give spin. Then the ball starts right and draws. His method will give snap hooks-unless u time it
cockywatchman1976 4 months ago
@cockywatchman1976
"why not just close the face to start with if thats what you want and you take out the timing? "
=
Definitely agree.
starting with a square clubface and relying on your ability to time it so the clubface is slightly closed at impact is just adding another variable in there that would be pretty hard to do consistently.
Keeping your SWING consistent and just closing the club at address would seem to be the most consistent and easiest way to pull this off.
AmericansForGuns0com 4 months ago
@cockywatchman1976 you think a good golf swing is absent of timing? wonder what sam snead would have to say about that.
"golf is timing and rhythm"
dschultz6072 3 months ago
@dschultz6072 No, when did I say that. Rhythm, tempo, timing are crucial. But why introduce extra timing elements into your technique, just through lack of understanding the ball flight laws. Snead would say "science and technology-use it to your advantage". Golf is timing and rhythm AND knowledge of ball flight laws and good technique.
cockywatchman1976 3 months ago
how to hit duck hook
spartanstackandtilt 8 months ago
This guy is wrong. I know what he's trying to say, but he's wrong. Ball starts off in the direction of the club face and difference between club face angle and path create the spin. It has NOTHING to do with where you contact the ball (left versus right). You have to hit out to the right (so contact left inside) to hit a draw!
sonicdeviant 1 year ago
@sonicdeviant your half right it does have nothing to do with where you contact the ball but the ball starts out where your swingplane is aiming and spins to where the face is aiming
NolandStrike 9 months ago
@NolandStrike The modern theory of ball flight states that the ball's initial direction is 75% determined by where the club face is pointing at impact...the other 25% is swing plane. So the key is to aim the club face where you want the ball to start and then angle swing plane to various degrees to elicit more or less hook spin. The old adage that you aim the club face where you want the ball to end up will still result in a draw, but I guarantee that--it will not end up there (close maybe).
sonicdeviant 8 months ago
this is perhaps the most wrong advice I have every heard on drawing/fading the ball... it works the other way... as you come into the ball you strike the ball on the inner side (side towards you) while you are still closing the face putting a draw spin...
JayJarri 1 year ago
@JayJarri you tell him he will never understand
NolandStrike 8 months ago