No, fail. Kimi was right to push Hamilton to the edge at Bus Stop and Hamilton should have backed off, rather than cheating and cutting the corner. Hamilton was going marginally slower over the line (so marginally that it made literally no difference to the speed difference) and therefore Kimi had little chance of keeping his place as all Hamilton had to do was get back in Kimi's slipstream going into La Source. Hamilton cheated, he was punished for it quite rightfully. Get over it.
Well... this is an classic example of how Hamilton's getting punished all the time, even if he hasn't done nothing wrong. He was faster than Raikonen in that case anyway, (Kimi had slick tires and the wet track wasn't helping). And he also crashed the car eventually because he was pushing too much. Even without that incident, i believe Lewis would have been able to pass him.
I remember watching this and seeing the slight twitches and slips of the cars because it was so wet, an the close fighting for the last few laps between these two were nerve shredding. I thoroughly enjoyed it though and Hamilton deserved that win. Sometimes the FIA do really come up with some immensely daft decisions.
One today for example. Maldonado five place grid drop. Pff, hilarity.
IMO Lewis's best win, did what was needed, got pushed offline, gave raikkonen the position back, over took him, pushed raikkonen to the limit, he crashed out under the pressure, Hamilton stayed cool and won the race, but was decided Massa was more worthy of the win! round spherical things.
ALL OF YOU LEWIS FANS HAVEN'T GOT ANY RESPECT FOR JENSON BUTTON. WHY ARE YOU SO PATHETIC. LEWIS WAS TERRIBLE IN MONACO TAKING OUT PASTOR MALDONADO, WHAT'S HAPPENED TO LEWIS, IN 2007 HE WAS FINE. IN 2011 HE GET'S OCCASIONALLY VERY COCKY. KIMI IS THE KING OF SPA IF HE RETURNS LEWIS ON'T GET IN HIS WAY
Hami dives down the out side of the first bus-stop. They are side by side and Kimi then squezes Hami out. Hami gives the place back and is going 6KPH slower than kimi when they pass the start line.
Kimi then weaves to stop hami getting though which at that time was legal. Hami gets past anyway.
The race goes on for the next 2 laps and Kimi crashes out. Hami get Punished for cutting a corner and gaining an advantage. THERE WAS NONE.
Lewis didnt brake though, he just lifted off momentarily and then went straight back into Kimi's slipstream and made the pass which you cant do because if he hadnt cut the corner he'd have never taken Kimi down into turn one, he was lucky he got a very lenient penalty from the stewards
@64Fabby In response, I simply don't think that Hami gained an advantage as he would of been in that position had Kimi not of squeezed him out. Also, the penalty gave the race to Massa who didn't deserve that race win in the slightest.
Raikkonen being in front (by about half a cars length) can take the racing line when and where he wants it, Lewis should've followed him into the corner but he let his stupidity get the better of him, then he should've followed kimi into turn one and nailed him into eau rouge where Kimi was clearly struggling. And the race couldnt have gone to anyone else, massa was just in the right place at the right time :)
@LEWIS2WIN So if lewis had been sensible and lined up behind Raikkonen when it became obvious he was trying to squeeze Lewis out (Which is 100% fair, Kimi was infront and had the line) are you saying he would have still been alongside Kimi on the start/finish straight? No, he would have been behind him. Cutting the chicane gave him the opportunity to overtake into turn one, therefore it was an advantage.
The irony is if he had lined up behind Kimi he would have won due to the crash.
This was the last sniff off real Formula 1. God just wanted us to see that and remember it how it was the old days. Goodbye Formula 1, Hi people with a lot money that want to see cars folowing each other like a fasion show. Ey nice to see what they have done to the F1, as result the most boring race in history this weekend.
Lewis had to cut the chicane to avoid an accident, its pretty clear tha Kimi barged him off, then Kimi drives like a psycho and screws himself over, pretty exciting race though.
Where was it in that brilliant piece of driving by Raikonen and Hamiton that Hamitlon deserved to lose out on a place? FIA are some dumb idiots for not being able to see that Hamilton had no other option but to cut the chicane and then gave the place back
One of the greatest races that season, It's why we keep going back to Spa :)
That ruling on Lewis' overtake was insane, was a great piece of driving. In the end it didn't affect the championship, but was a ludicrous call in the first place. FIA = Ferrari International Assistance!!! They should be the ones to get a kick up the arse!!!
@chapmana22 True, but what's done is done....it was somewhat messed up situation...on the other hand Kimi got passed/Lewis let him pass right after he had cut the corner, but the judges thought that Hamilton should have slowed down more after he had cut the corner, that he had the edge over Raikkonen because of that.
Anyways it was great to see Kimi and Lewis racing against eachother, though I would have hoped that Kimi would have won...if he did, he would have won Spa five times in a row!
This cost Lewis a the world championship in his debut F1 season, absolutely ludicrous ruling from the FIA Hamilton doesnt get the respect he deserves. To do this in your debut season is purely sensational and not to be forgotten. Watching him that year was like watching Senna all over again champion the following season, Lewis will win many more and become one of the greats.
@MrGrobbo6 mate, this race was in 2008. hamilton debuted in 2007 and the ruling didn't cost him anything, in fact it gave us a great battle in the last race in brazil in which the championship was desided in the last corner. what cost him the championship in 2007 was his mistake in china while entering the pits.
@constantine4711 My apologies, yeah good point I had my wires crossed for some reason. Correct me if I'm wrong but another deciding factor in that 2007 season was Fernando "eyebrow man" Alonso blocking him in qualifying and stopping him from having a crack at pole position, that season was decided by only a few points and it must of had an effect on what Lewis could have scored that race.
@MrGrobbo6 actually that stupid move by alonso in hungary propably cost him the championship because even though he had scored the pole position he took a 5 places penalty and started from 6th loosing many important points, considering both mclaren boys lost the championship by 1 point. on the other hand hamilton who had quilified 2nd, was promoted to pole position after alonso's penalty and won the hungarian grand prix taking a 7 point lead in championshp standings at that point.
It's pretty clear to see why they handed him the penalty. He cut the chicane which gave him the opportunity to get in front of Kimi before the first corner. Had Lewis not cut it, he never would have been in a position to overtake before the first corner. Over-eagerness cost him that win because he would have snatched Kimi's position surely, he was much quicker than Kimi. And this over-eagerness also made his championship fight more difficult as it was Massa who benefited from Lewis's penalty.
@patukka24 no. tbh anything could've happened in that weather. the move though was legitimate in my mind. i'm not saying hamilton is perfect but i think he passed raikkonen fair and square.
hamilton shouldn't have got a penalty. he yielded, it even showed on the data for his car he took his foot off the pedal. why did he get penalised anyway? raikkonen crashed didn't he? he wouldn't have been able to win the race anyway.
Have to say, i thought Hamilton deserved the penalty - i've got nothing against the bloke and i was glad to see him lift the world title, but the way he postioned himself as he yielded the spot made it disadvantageous to Raikonnen. Cracking race though, i really enjoyed it.
Just while i'm having my two pennies' worth, F1 is of a lower quality without Raikonnen, and anyone who finds this entertaining should switch to MotoGP - pure racing and lots of overtaking on a much more reuglar basis!
@howieboy62032914 mate, i dont think ur judgement is fair, never seen ham crash intentionally except one occasion where he hit raikonen at pit exit at red light, which was pure accident... never seen a red light in pit exit during race days... his fault but not intentional, watch ham's races, he always avoid crashing people either cutting corner or yielding his position! on the other hand, rai in this race was outraged about ham passing him, he tried to crash him twice before he crashd himself
@howieboy62032914 if u have watched vettel webber massa schumi, quite scum drivers... massa very dirty racer... webber have never have enough room in races when he crashes... i can count at least 4 occasions where webber crashed ham... massa does crash or tries hard, not just ham, but many others... vettel too rookie... only good due to an unfair car from the start of the season... same happened to button last year, same car this year, he is barely qualifying...
Lewis Hamilton was ROBBED!!. He gave the corner back and Raikkonen crashed out regardless!! Penalising Hamilton did not give the victory to Kimi; all that happened was the FIA ruined the race and the result!!
Still makes me angry watching this - the worst decision in the history of the FIA to strip Hamilton there. Thankfully the championship went to the right man, and Hamilton rid those demons of Spa this year.
i was there sitting in la source, watching this two years later makes me realize what an awesome race i have seen, my only race so far and its almost impossible to top that one...
@SuperHardTrance I am a Hamilton fan because he actually tries to overtake which is more than can be said for 90% of the grid over the last decade. Only other person that immediately springs to mind is JPM, who I was also a big fan of.
Also how is watching the race again going to justify Massa getting the spa win when he was behind Lewis and Kimi all race, when the rightful winner was Lewis?
@SuperHardTrance and Lewis finished 1st that race for it to be taken away disgracefully. I agree to finish first, first you have to finish. I felt sorry for Kimi that race though :(
@SuperHardTrance ..but he didnt. The rule stated he had to give the position back. Which he did. Infact, Kimi was going faster over the start/finish line than Hamilton. The reason Hamilton overtook into la source is because Hamilton outbreaked him. Kimi wasnt sure where to break, Hamilton knew where to break. It wasnt until afterwards where the rule was clarified to "give the advantage back". So Hamilton never cheated and still got punished for it
@SuperHardTrance how was that weaving? He was trying to break the slipstream. If you watch it again notice how Kimi follows Hamilton rather than Hamilton blocking him. So thats fine. If Kimi doesnt want to get blocked then dont move behind him. Whether he only gave back half a second shouldnt have mattered, Kimi crashed out so what advantage Hamilton gained as a result of cutting the chicane wouldnt have mattered..He would have won the race already.
@SuperHardTrance Oh and yeah he is involved in a lot of incidents, the monaco ones were his fault but I dont get why people blame Hamilton for the Button collision in Canada when it was Jenson who moved over (not deliberate)
@DarudeF1 Hey you narrow minded dick that monkey happened to be felipe massa who had a phenomenal season and was fighting for the championship i dont agree with the fia anymore than you do but dont criticize other innocent drivers
@TheAdams2006 How did Massa deserve to win this race? He wasnt the best or second best here yet the FIA give him the win. And how was I being critical of him??
@TheAdams2006 Calling him a monkey doesnt mean that hes a bad driver though does it? For the record he had a good season but he didnt deserve to win Spa when Kimi and Lewis were genuinely better all weekend.
can all you fags stop arguing and just watch the video. so many retards on youtube trynna start some stupid shit all the time. stfu, ur pissing everyone off.
Still feel like hamilton had an unfair advantage there... The rule is that you have to wait a corner before attacking again, as you have an speed advantage on the straight if you cut a corner.. If there wasn't such a rule everyone could easily make speed with cutting a corner and attack at the next corner.. As easy as that.. Kimi should had win there.. Hamilton is a fool, I new he would gonna crash in Melbourne.. That guy is just to emotionally charged..
The rule, it was modified after this incident. Same, as you wrote it. That wasn't in the regulation that it is necessary to wait for it until the next corner. Sorry for my english.
@dcggames You are the fool, Kimi crashed in case you forgot, and the rule you are referring to (wait until after the next straight to overtake) didn't even exist at the time of this race, it was brought in by the FIA 1 week after Spa during the Italian GP at Monza. All Hamilton had to do was give the place back to Kimi, the word 'advantage' does not even appear anywhere in the FIA rules. As for Melbourne, perhaps you missed the small matter of the crash being entirely Webbers fault,lol.
the fact of the matter is that hamilton let kimi past him after the corner, forget about saying lewis didnt lift off enough the important thing is he did let kimi past
kimi crashed after that anyway.
well thats my opinion the FIA ruined a fantastic face, one of the best of the season
Icetonky, i'm sorry but i disagree mate. It was discussed (can't remember the exact year, but it was Suzuka) between Allen and Brundle that Charlie whiting can only advise to the teams his opinion of wether or not a team have broken the rules. The rules you have stated were the rules, however after careful examination of the incident, they found out that Lewis gained an advantage from cutting that chicane. As EVERY driver stated, there is noway he would've been close enough...
@Neonskyline2004 Nope, you are referring to the 'Alonso/Klein' incident. If you remember that race, Alonso was not pushed onto a chicane, he completely overshot it as his entry speed was far too high. Whiting admitted he hadn't seen Alonso give the place back, and he actually issued a statement after the race stating that Alonso was NOT required to give the place back.
Any advantage Lewis gained he then relinquished, it's right there on the video & it was even backed up with telemetry....
..... which Mclaren produced at the FIA hearing that showed Hamilton had lifted voluntarily, and in accordance with the rules, had given the place back. You completely contradict urself stating that "the rules I stated were correct, but Lewis gained an advantage". He didn't, and neither did drivers say he wouldn't have been close enough, as they, or the stewards, could never make such a judgment as it's purely subjective. Driver opinion has no bearing on the rules, and does not justify penalties
How did i contradict myself? He followed the rules, he gave the place back... however, he gained an advantage, he was closer to the back of Kimi than if he took the chicane correctly... I think the closest thing you can look at it is that, they changed the rules because no-one had done something like that before. Please don't get my wrong, i think the decision was unjust, and i believe that Lewis should've won. Theres no point trying to convince me, i agree... it's just thats how it happened
@Neonskyline2004 You cant possibly say he gained an advantage if
a) the word advantage does not appear anywhere in the rules, the term used is place, meaning track position
b) he gave the place back
c) you cant possibly say where Lewis would've been if he had followed Kimi, the possibilities on a wet track, on worn out tyres are endless & no steward would ever rule on 'what if's' or 'could haves'.
d) search 'Massa v Kubica Fuji Onboard' @1.10 multiple chicanes cut & no penalty!
I've read your comments and am fully aware that advantage does not appear in the rules, and i have never said otherwise. Yes, he gave the place back, thankyou for pointing out the obvious. It's very possible to say where they would've been due to the fact that Lewis wouldn't have been so close to the back of Kimi, so Draft wouldn't have had such an effect, which in turn would've meant that Lewis wouldn't have been able to launch an attack into turn 1.
@Neonskyline2004 My point is, chicane cutting, place given back, no penalty.. durrrr.
As for 'wouldn't of/couldn't of', it's purely subjective and you can't possibly predict such a thing, Lewis was all over that back of Kimi so there is no reason to suggest he wouldn't have been able to overtake, as he wouldn't have had to back off the throttle over the line, meaning he would have had a clear run at Kimi.
Checked the video... Kubica cut the first chicane, came out in front going slower, Massa cut the second, came out alongside. Kubica was pushed off the next corner and gave the place back... what's your point? completely different...
@Neonskyline2004 As for slipstream, it played absolutely NO PART in the overtake, Lewis was in Kimi's slipstream for around 0.5 second and both cars were travelling too slowly for slipstream to be effective.
It's laughable that people argue that Hamilton should have braked and steered back onto the track, did Kubica and Massa do that in the Fuji vid? Nope.
Did Kimi brake and steer back onto the track when he was using the full length of several run-offs (which aren't part of the racetrack)? Nope
Lewis was all over the back of Kimi because of how close he was... where, yet again i point out, he wouldn't have been if he followed the chicane. I haven't said anything about Lewis braking and steering back onto the track, and the argument of "Less grip on the run-offs" counter's the arguement of using them...
@Neonskyline2004 Yet again, you cannot possibly judge that, and no stewards decision is ever based on 'what if's' or 'could haves', so the fact that you are trying to justify it by a subjective argument is bullshit, and it shows your lack of racing knowledge.
Going on your daft comments, you have never been anywhere near a racetrack.... especially a wet one, where there is almost always far more grip available off the racing line, and that includes run-offs.
By the sounds of it, you're now grasping at straws by making a poor attempt at belittling me. How can there be more grip off the racing line where it's standing water? The racing line dries up quicker due to the cars going through it... which i'm assuming you would already know due to your vast amount of racing knowledge... the "what if's" or "could haves" are from common sense... you go round a chicane, the car in front will always be on the throttle before you...
@Neonskyline2004 thanks i was just looking back at the point i was trying to make 7 months ago and you nailed it hamilton wouldnt have been close enough to overtake kimi if he hadnt cut the chicane ... who knows who would have won after that but i think raikkkonen lol
i think you'll find i didn't contradict myself... I have never said that Lewis broke the rules. I have said that the rules you have stated are correct, however he did gain an advantage. He followed the rules to the letter like he did in his first year and that is the same reason he got heavily penalised. All the drivers have unwritten gentleman rules which they've all followed, Lewis followed the rule book. The stewards rewrote the rule after this incident, because being 6kmh slower is nothing
Wrong again, there is no such thing as an unwriten rule, the rules are in place and there are thousands of them that govern everything from complex things like how the ECU electronics control shift, to minor things like the size of sponsor logo's. There had already been a precedent set for this by Charlie Whiting at Suzuka06 during the Alonso/Klein incident.
As for 6kph, that figure is irrelevant, because there is nothing in the rules about speed, only 'place', which Lewis slowed to give back
no such thing as an unwritten rule? serious? stop fighting the fact that if Lewis had gone through the chicane, then by the time he crossed the line behind Kimi he would've been a lot slower than 6kmh, which is the evidence that Mclaren provided to prove that Lewis gave the place back. The Stewards rewrote the rules because no-one had done something like that before so only giving the place back was acceptable. They realised that in this case an "advantage" was gained so they changed the rules
Yet again your ignorant stupidity is laughable, I've even given you links to other races where such incidents have happened (Alonso/Klein, Massa/Kubica), even try searching out some of Schumi's numerous chicane cuts on the likes of Hakkinen & Montoya. If you don't understand the real reason why the rules were changed, I suggest you seek out Bernie Ecclestones comments last xmas when he confirmed Ferrari had a secret deal with the FIA, £millions changed hands in return for Ferrari favoritism.
what's with personal insults? You've provided different situations, where positions were given back and no overtake was immediately made. You've provided evidence and then as soon as i argue with it, you find a new way to argue. Ferrari's deal was the veto of decision's that the FIA made, not the stewards. I've provided possible reasons for the change, all you've done is just say that the change was wrong, all because Lewis got a penalty. They happen, it's a sport
I Totally agree with Formula1master what he is saying makes sense 1:45 says it all really hamilton is quality and if your english and ur commenting agasint him then ur dumb english stick with each other
@2010taylorswiftlover ... im british and have been a kimi fan for years even before he was in f1 .. so why should i change because hamilton is britsih i went to silverstone 2007 (kimi won) and had a kimi cap and t-shirt on and even waving a finland flag kimi no! good luck in wrc and vettel for the crown in 2010 ... lewis cut the corner and deserved his penalty
@scarletchoose So you think he deserved the penalty, even though he gave the place back in accordance with the rules? Are you a typical biased Kimifan who thinks rules should never apply to Kimi.
If you are british, then you would have watched this race on ITV-F1, and you would have heard the convo between Charlie Whiting & Ron Dennis minutes after the incident in which Whiting confirmed twice that Hamilton had followed the rules. He had, so they re-wrote them AFTER the race.
@icetonky ..yes lewis let kimi by but straight away dived into kimis slipstream and overtook kimi all the drivers say there are no overtaking on the final straight because it isnt long enough so there is a fact hamilton got the advantage . as for ron dennis he is mclaren so he is gonna stick up for hamilton i admit the penalty might have been harsh but what can you do kimi should have won the race so i think a 10 grid penalty would have been better ...GO KIMI
@scarletchoose Please forward me a link to the FIA rule that says there is no overtaking on the final straight.
You are talking out of ur arse, the word 'advantage' is NOT mentioned anywhere in the rules, and there is nothing written in the rules that says Hamilton could not do what he did.
As for slipstream, it played absolutely NO PART in the overtake, as Hamilton was in Kimi's slipstream for around 0.5 of a second, and both cars were travelling too slowly for slipstream to be effective.
@icetonky so your telling me that if hamilton had backed off and went around the corner properly he would have been close enough to pass raikkonen into la sourse? no chance listen to the drivers coments after the race and they agree he took and advantage to be close to kimi entering la saurse .. and advantage is in the rules otherwise drivers would all go straight on passed the chacaine int races like monza and spa this rule stops drivers doing that
You cannot possibly say where either driver would have been had they followed different lines, the possiblities of a wet track on worn out tyres are infinite. Why should Hamilton have braked hard and steered back onto the track? Did Kimi do that on the run-offs?
As for the 'advantage', IT IS NOT in the rules, nor is it even mentioned in the rules, and whatever the drivers opinions were, they also didn't know the new rules, which is why they asked for clarification at Monza the following week
i can possible say hamilton would not had been close enough to kimi to pass him into la saurse had he taken the corner properly HE CUT THE CORNER !!!!!!!!?????? fucking advantage forget if he gave the place back or not he shouldnt have been there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@scarletchoose You are a retard, and a typical biased Kimi fan.
Kimi shouldn't have been on the run-offs, but he still used them as they are not part of the racetrack.
As for Hamilton, you are forgetting he was pushed wide by Kimi, and he gave the place back, so there was no advantage. You can throw up all the dumb, ignorant arguments you like, but the fact is Hamilton followed the rules, and did exactly what they required him to do.... give the place back.
i completely agree with you. kimi happened to crash while being on a runoff area! as for the penalty as i have said time and time again, even if they did change the rules it was still legal because of the incident at 1:45. if someone leaves the track under the safety car they are allowed to overtake the person who has made the mistake! Kimi went off the road and hamilton took the place back again then too. that move was completely legal even if the other wasnt and the rule makes no difference
@scarletchoose Do you even know who Charlie Whiting is? He is the most senior FIA official in F1. It is his job to direct the stewards, so if Whiting says Hamilton followed the rules, then he followed the rules, so your argument for a 10 place grid drop is bullshit.
Perhaps you missed the small matter of Kimi crashing all on his own after losing the back end whilst driving on the run-offs. 'Should haves' and 'could haves' mean fuck all, Kimi crashed, the race was Hamiltons
@scarletchoose Good question..... and that is exactly why there was such uproar over this penalty, and why it is still discussed in great detail now.
The ridiculous thing about it was that once Mclaren said they had telemetry to prove that Lewis backed off the throttle and let Kimi have track position back (as per the rules), the FIA then re-wrote the rule and introduced it I week after Spa during the Italian GP @ Monza, applying it retrospectively.
sorry to join in... Charlie Whiting can only "Advise" on the rules, he doesn't confirm if someone is right or not, it's down to the stewards who decide. Though i believe Lewis gained an advantage, he still would've won so i think the penalty was extremely harsh. If there were enough laps to do a drive through, than he would've received that, got back on the track and overtook everyone to win. It's just unlucky timing...
Sorry m8 you are wrong. Stewards cannot pick and choose what they investigate, they are directed by Whiting via co-ordinator Alan Donnelly. In the past Whiting has given his final say, and he & Donnelly are the only 2 full time FIA stewards in F1.
As for the 'advantage', that word is not even mentioned anywhere in the rules, the term used is 'place', which Hamilton gave back.
'What if' or 'could have' is irrelevant, Hamilton followed the rules that were in place at the time, and that's fact
sure, hamilton gained an advantage... hmmm, about a whole tenth even! oh he so deserved to have been docked 25 seconds... so what those part time stewards decided was that if hamilton hadn't cut the chicane he would've lost 25 seconds? hmmm... that's why, wait what? massa won? but he was never even in the running, oh well, he drives a red car and the other crashed so may aswell just gift him the race on a platter...
i dont disagree with the rule that if you cheat then you get a penalty, and if its at the end of the race, you can get a time penalty, but it is still wrong, contemplate my P.O.V. at 1:45 hamilton goes off and raikkonen gets the place back again! now if hamilton cant take it back before the next corner that is equivalent to a yellow flag situation am i right? in france 2002, schumacher overtook kimi when kimi went off the road under yellow flags, because of his mistake. isnt this the same thing?
Hamilton did not choose to cut the chicane, nor did he overshoot the corner, he was pushed wide by Kimi.
If the rules state only that Hamilton must give the place back, and he does exactly that, then how can that be abusing the rules? It isn't, even Charlie Whiting confirmed Hamilton had followed the rules during the race.
Hamilton cutting the chicane had no bearing on his ability to overtake at the next corner. So yes, you are wrong & ur opinion biased
Actually Hamilton himself admitted that he could have gone through the chicane normally, but the racer in him made him cut it. And to be honest I couldn't care about this anymore ... people get lives this was last year. It's all in the past
Lmao.... If you couldn't care less about it, then why are you commenting?
As for your comment, i wonder which bullshit media story that was from, as Hamilton defended his actions due to him being penalized for not using the racetrack.... exactly the same rule Kimi broke with his 3 off-track excursions onto run-offs, gaining speed and traction in the process.
Kimi could also have steered back onto the track but he didn't, or maybe the rules should only be applied to Hamilton?
If Kimi would have finished then he probably would have been penalized, but as he retired why bother? Also I think I read this in F1 Racing but if I'm honest I can't remember. I'll look at it
@bmk139 I TOTALLY AGREE! Why is it the idiotic haters berate Hamilton for cheating, when Raikkonen did what you said many times, but failed to gain advantage. Also, what people forget is that in 2009 @ Spa, Kimi put 4 wheels on the grass @ the top of Kemmel to overtake Fisi - and yet the FIA never batted an eyelid!
Formula One is a story of corruption, and with Jean Todt now in charge, I fear it will probably get worse.
@bmk139 Oke mister fool expert, Kimi crashed because he gave everything he had to catch Hamilton back after he had passed him using an advantage.. You can't say he didn't had any... So rule or not, he wouldn't have passed Kimi if he didn't cut that specific corner.. O, and about Melbourne, Webber couldn't go any other direction because Hamilton, he got blocked easily by Alonso.. And don't you think Hamilton should take a class for driving in the rain?? Because he sucked mann..
@dcggames Dumbass, if Kimi can't keep his car on the track then it's his own fault for using the run off areas. You cannot possibly what would have happened if either driver had taken a different line, the possibilities on a wet track on worn out tyres are endless and it is entirely subjective. No stewards decision has ever been made on ifs or buts.
You show your ignorance of F1 by your last stupid comment, the driver with the highest wet win ratio in F1 is Lewis, 40% compared to Vettels 22%
@dcggames Only an absolute retard would claim any driver who - overtook every driver who finished in front of him except Kubica, who overtook both Ferraris TWICE and Webber TWICE), who made the best moves of the race, who got held up in his 1st pit stop and lost a place to Rubens, then called in for a pointless tyre change when he was guaranteed a podium, then shunted off the track by Webber (who even admitted the crash was 100% his fault and apologized to Hamilton) "sucked mann". LOL
@bmk139 Hoooeee, really eating your hard out there buddy.. Well you just keep supporting Hamilton.. Maybe he will be your boyfriend someday.. O, and about following the sport.. I'm the only one of us two who can say that I have race experience in karting and autosport.. So quit playing the expert when you aren't.. lol
@dcggames Judging by your utterly stupid comments, I very much doubt if you have ever been on a racetrack, in fact I'd put money on you being full of shit, lol.
@bmk139 Just keep playing the tough guy.. Easy huh?? On internet.. Doubt whatever you want, I don't give a damn about what you think.. And you're saying my comments are stupid?? XD Well read some stuff of your own.. Bullshit against bullshit.. seems fairplay to me.. lol O, and please stop spamming my profile page with your nonsense, it looks a bit pathetic...
@dcggames Tough guy? Lol, I'm just taking the piss out of you. Yes your comments are stupid, and very immature. Nobody who has ever competed (seriously) on a racetrack would use subjective arguments about racing lines on a wet track with worn out tyres. Perhaps if you had read my comments properly you would have seen an objective and informed argument, where as your argument is the kind of comments I'd expect from a petulant teenager ("he will be ur boyfriend, ect). Lol
No, fail. Kimi was right to push Hamilton to the edge at Bus Stop and Hamilton should have backed off, rather than cheating and cutting the corner. Hamilton was going marginally slower over the line (so marginally that it made literally no difference to the speed difference) and therefore Kimi had little chance of keeping his place as all Hamilton had to do was get back in Kimi's slipstream going into La Source. Hamilton cheated, he was punished for it quite rightfully. Get over it.
Kartlad90 1 day ago
Well... this is an classic example of how Hamilton's getting punished all the time, even if he hasn't done nothing wrong. He was faster than Raikonen in that case anyway, (Kimi had slick tires and the wet track wasn't helping). And he also crashed the car eventually because he was pushing too much. Even without that incident, i believe Lewis would have been able to pass him.
75NZ 1 month ago
it's the best race of F1but FIA are always for ferrarie
mauris58 3 months ago
I remember watching this and seeing the slight twitches and slips of the cars because it was so wet, an the close fighting for the last few laps between these two were nerve shredding. I thoroughly enjoyed it though and Hamilton deserved that win. Sometimes the FIA do really come up with some immensely daft decisions.
One today for example. Maldonado five place grid drop. Pff, hilarity.
UKFX 6 months ago
IMO Lewis's best win, did what was needed, got pushed offline, gave raikkonen the position back, over took him, pushed raikkonen to the limit, he crashed out under the pressure, Hamilton stayed cool and won the race, but was decided Massa was more worthy of the win! round spherical things.
123aphex456 6 months ago
@123aphex456 not best win you are wrong best cheating is the right thing to say
azo112 1 month ago
2008 was one of the most exciting season in F1 History.
djcheff 6 months ago 2
HAHA RAIKONNEN U PRICK F u HATERS.
MrDumz91 7 months ago
@MrDumz91
2008 was a classic, defo 1 of the top 3 seasons of all time.
123aphex456 6 months ago
@123aphex456 agreed
UKFX 6 months ago
ALL OF YOU LEWIS FANS HAVEN'T GOT ANY RESPECT FOR JENSON BUTTON. WHY ARE YOU SO PATHETIC. LEWIS WAS TERRIBLE IN MONACO TAKING OUT PASTOR MALDONADO, WHAT'S HAPPENED TO LEWIS, IN 2007 HE WAS FINE. IN 2011 HE GET'S OCCASIONALLY VERY COCKY. KIMI IS THE KING OF SPA IF HE RETURNS LEWIS ON'T GET IN HIS WAY
thestonecoldandy 7 months ago
THE FACTS:
Hami dives down the out side of the first bus-stop. They are side by side and Kimi then squezes Hami out. Hami gives the place back and is going 6KPH slower than kimi when they pass the start line.
Kimi then weaves to stop hami getting though which at that time was legal. Hami gets past anyway.
The race goes on for the next 2 laps and Kimi crashes out. Hami get Punished for cutting a corner and gaining an advantage. THERE WAS NONE.
FIA-FERRARI INTERNATIONAL ASISTANCE.
LEWIS2WIN 8 months ago 7
@LEWIS2WIN i know but hey he won the championship yeeeaaayyyy
ustiansniper 7 months ago
@LEWIS2WIN
Lewis didnt brake though, he just lifted off momentarily and then went straight back into Kimi's slipstream and made the pass which you cant do because if he hadnt cut the corner he'd have never taken Kimi down into turn one, he was lucky he got a very lenient penalty from the stewards
64Fabby 7 months ago
@64Fabby In response, I simply don't think that Hami gained an advantage as he would of been in that position had Kimi not of squeezed him out. Also, the penalty gave the race to Massa who didn't deserve that race win in the slightest.
LEWIS2WIN 7 months ago
@LEWIS2WIN
Raikkonen being in front (by about half a cars length) can take the racing line when and where he wants it, Lewis should've followed him into the corner but he let his stupidity get the better of him, then he should've followed kimi into turn one and nailed him into eau rouge where Kimi was clearly struggling. And the race couldnt have gone to anyone else, massa was just in the right place at the right time :)
64Fabby 7 months ago
@LEWIS2WIN So if lewis had been sensible and lined up behind Raikkonen when it became obvious he was trying to squeeze Lewis out (Which is 100% fair, Kimi was infront and had the line) are you saying he would have still been alongside Kimi on the start/finish straight? No, he would have been behind him. Cutting the chicane gave him the opportunity to overtake into turn one, therefore it was an advantage.
The irony is if he had lined up behind Kimi he would have won due to the crash.
seismica 1 month ago
@LEWIS2WIN Judging by your name you have no bias whatsoever. Get a grip.
TREVTHEREV2006 4 days ago
This was the last sniff off real Formula 1. God just wanted us to see that and remember it how it was the old days. Goodbye Formula 1, Hi people with a lot money that want to see cars folowing each other like a fasion show. Ey nice to see what they have done to the F1, as result the most boring race in history this weekend.
Alan471 8 months ago 2
Hamilton the rain master!!
Euclides287 8 months ago
The F.I.A are so racist. Hamilton gets a penalty for small things whil when other people do what Hamilton did they dont get a penalty. Racist idiots!
goobler246 9 months ago
Lewis had to cut the chicane to avoid an accident, its pretty clear tha Kimi barged him off, then Kimi drives like a psycho and screws himself over, pretty exciting race though.
mattmorr 9 months ago
Kimi should won that race!!!! Hamilton cheated!!!! FIA just didn't saw it!!!
IrfanManUtd 9 months ago
Where was it in that brilliant piece of driving by Raikonen and Hamiton that Hamitlon deserved to lose out on a place? FIA are some dumb idiots for not being able to see that Hamilton had no other option but to cut the chicane and then gave the place back
billabongzilla 10 months ago
Some of the most exciting racing I've seen in years ruined after the race. What a shame.
Khips 10 months ago
wtf? hamilton totally deserved the full points win foir this. he raced brilliantly and ook raikonen far and square. sad face... :'(
GiantJizzRobot 10 months ago
@TheUndeadclaws because thats opinion :P
BrandzF1 10 months ago
One of the greatest races that season, It's why we keep going back to Spa :)
That ruling on Lewis' overtake was insane, was a great piece of driving. In the end it didn't affect the championship, but was a ludicrous call in the first place. FIA = Ferrari International Assistance!!! They should be the ones to get a kick up the arse!!!
chapmana22 1 year ago
@chapmana22 True, but what's done is done....it was somewhat messed up situation...on the other hand Kimi got passed/Lewis let him pass right after he had cut the corner, but the judges thought that Hamilton should have slowed down more after he had cut the corner, that he had the edge over Raikkonen because of that.
Anyways it was great to see Kimi and Lewis racing against eachother, though I would have hoped that Kimi would have won...if he did, he would have won Spa five times in a row!
Balnazzardi 10 months ago
Best race i've ever seen so far!
burneduplikefire 1 year ago 2
Stewards were total power-hungry numpties in 2008.
zt2max 1 year ago 4
@zt2max Haha! Amen bro.
Khips 10 months ago
@Khips :-) Glad someone reads my fine words. ;-)
zt2max 10 months ago
This cost Lewis a the world championship in his debut F1 season, absolutely ludicrous ruling from the FIA Hamilton doesnt get the respect he deserves. To do this in your debut season is purely sensational and not to be forgotten. Watching him that year was like watching Senna all over again champion the following season, Lewis will win many more and become one of the greats.
MrGrobbo6 1 year ago 2
@MrGrobbo6 mate, this race was in 2008. hamilton debuted in 2007 and the ruling didn't cost him anything, in fact it gave us a great battle in the last race in brazil in which the championship was desided in the last corner. what cost him the championship in 2007 was his mistake in china while entering the pits.
constantine4711 1 year ago
@constantine4711 My apologies, yeah good point I had my wires crossed for some reason. Correct me if I'm wrong but another deciding factor in that 2007 season was Fernando "eyebrow man" Alonso blocking him in qualifying and stopping him from having a crack at pole position, that season was decided by only a few points and it must of had an effect on what Lewis could have scored that race.
MrGrobbo6 1 year ago
@MrGrobbo6 actually that stupid move by alonso in hungary propably cost him the championship because even though he had scored the pole position he took a 5 places penalty and started from 6th loosing many important points, considering both mclaren boys lost the championship by 1 point. on the other hand hamilton who had quilified 2nd, was promoted to pole position after alonso's penalty and won the hungarian grand prix taking a 7 point lead in championshp standings at that point.
constantine4711 1 year ago
cant hate on lewis he pushing every driver to drive their best race love this is classic f1
ravenatonepiece 1 year ago 11
@jbye1928 Yes I agree Senna number 1, but Lewis Hamilton is nowhere near, I would put him about 25th.
ferrari430scu 1 year ago
@ferrari430scu
ferrari are the biggest cheats in f1, so you cant talk yourself you stupid Tifosi. Hockenhiem 2010 ???
beyblader10171 1 year ago
@beyblader10171 Ask any other F1 driver of the past, the drivers drive for the team, the team decides. Thats why team orders are allowed in 2011.
ferrari430scu 1 year ago
@ferrari430scu
im not that stupid, i already know what the rule changes are for 2011, yeah the team decides Ferrari cheater FIArarri
beyblader10171 1 year ago
@jbye1928 Hamilton is a terrible driver....cheating
ferrari430scu 1 year ago
i like how Raikkonen got destroyed.
xyayxx 1 year ago
NAKAJIMAAAA WAAAAAAA KUNG POW CHICKEN!!!!
araam101 1 year ago
It's pretty clear to see why they handed him the penalty. He cut the chicane which gave him the opportunity to get in front of Kimi before the first corner. Had Lewis not cut it, he never would have been in a position to overtake before the first corner. Over-eagerness cost him that win because he would have snatched Kimi's position surely, he was much quicker than Kimi. And this over-eagerness also made his championship fight more difficult as it was Massa who benefited from Lewis's penalty.
RedPhroggz 1 year ago
@RedPhroggz u r absolutely right
zabraoota 1 year ago
@patukka24 no. tbh anything could've happened in that weather. the move though was legitimate in my mind. i'm not saying hamilton is perfect but i think he passed raikkonen fair and square.
Shadowdp26 1 year ago
hamilton shouldn't have got a penalty. he yielded, it even showed on the data for his car he took his foot off the pedal. why did he get penalised anyway? raikkonen crashed didn't he? he wouldn't have been able to win the race anyway.
Shadowdp26 1 year ago
Heidfeld.
schpyy 1 year ago
Have to say, i thought Hamilton deserved the penalty - i've got nothing against the bloke and i was glad to see him lift the world title, but the way he postioned himself as he yielded the spot made it disadvantageous to Raikonnen. Cracking race though, i really enjoyed it.
Just while i'm having my two pennies' worth, F1 is of a lower quality without Raikonnen, and anyone who finds this entertaining should switch to MotoGP - pure racing and lots of overtaking on a much more reuglar basis!
howieboy62032914 1 year ago 2
@howieboy62032914 mate, i dont think ur judgement is fair, never seen ham crash intentionally except one occasion where he hit raikonen at pit exit at red light, which was pure accident... never seen a red light in pit exit during race days... his fault but not intentional, watch ham's races, he always avoid crashing people either cutting corner or yielding his position! on the other hand, rai in this race was outraged about ham passing him, he tried to crash him twice before he crashd himself
mysticusa 1 year ago
@howieboy62032914 if u have watched vettel webber massa schumi, quite scum drivers... massa very dirty racer... webber have never have enough room in races when he crashes... i can count at least 4 occasions where webber crashed ham... massa does crash or tries hard, not just ham, but many others... vettel too rookie... only good due to an unfair car from the start of the season... same happened to button last year, same car this year, he is barely qualifying...
mysticusa 1 year ago
this is why hamilton is sutch a legand
stpid that he had penalty and went down to thried
byebyeperductions 1 year ago
in this race nick heidfeld was the intelligent of them all!!
bjoerndn2 1 year ago
even martin brundle said hamilton yielded, and he's an ex-driver
Nickomfacc 1 year ago
Kimi is the Spa master, Missing every minute without him in F1
surgeryproductionsuk 1 year ago
Lewis Hamilton was ROBBED!!. He gave the corner back and Raikkonen crashed out regardless!! Penalising Hamilton did not give the victory to Kimi; all that happened was the FIA ruined the race and the result!!
karlmaxwell1234 1 year ago
Why did they strip Hamilton of his points??
curlyafroninja 1 year ago
this was so brilliant by hamilton , stupid Fia
tom0043 1 year ago
Still makes me angry watching this - the worst decision in the history of the FIA to strip Hamilton there. Thankfully the championship went to the right man, and Hamilton rid those demons of Spa this year.
pmanngw 1 year ago
this race was flippin amazing, to bad it ended like it did wanted kimi to win
Ap0llo303 1 year ago
i was there sitting in la source, watching this two years later makes me realize what an awesome race i have seen, my only race so far and its almost impossible to top that one...
aXeroX 1 year ago
2008 World Champion Lewis Hamilton
marcrichiger 1 year ago
This is what makes Lewis the best, always doing exciting overtakings.
Pity they gave Massa the race in the end.
izzyenduff 1 year ago 2
Hamilton won. Great race.
mootle661 1 year ago
Hamilton is good but Kimi the best after Senna!!!
MegaDJLA 1 year ago
imagine a battle between montoya and hamilton!!
f1 needs for sure more action...
ub3ropro 1 year ago 2
Absolute fantastic ending. I remember going crazy when I was watching this live, brilliant!
OllieRetroSound 1 year ago 2
The shit thing about this is the FIA ruined a supreme end to a race and gave the win to some monkey who totally did NOT deserve it
DarudeF1 1 year ago 41
@DarudeF1 cala boca gordo sujo, e fdp
andrecosta1974 10 months ago
@DarudeF1 no they didnt... Hamilton cheated... many times in this race... and he still does today
SuperHardTrance 8 months ago
@SuperHardTrance please explain your answer...so far, 35 people disagree with you
DarudeF1 8 months ago
@DarudeF1 watch the race again... ul see... if ya dont then you are just a Hamilton fan... I'm an f1 fan so
SuperHardTrance 8 months ago
@SuperHardTrance I am a Hamilton fan because he actually tries to overtake which is more than can be said for 90% of the grid over the last decade. Only other person that immediately springs to mind is JPM, who I was also a big fan of.
Also how is watching the race again going to justify Massa getting the spa win when he was behind Lewis and Kimi all race, when the rightful winner was Lewis?
DarudeF1 8 months ago
@DarudeF1 Yeah i miss JPM to...
Anyway bececause you will see cheating. Massa = to finish 1st... you 1st gotta finish
SuperHardTrance 8 months ago
@SuperHardTrance and Lewis finished 1st that race for it to be taken away disgracefully. I agree to finish first, first you have to finish. I felt sorry for Kimi that race though :(
DarudeF1 8 months ago
@DarudeF1 he finished 1st by cheating thats my point...
SuperHardTrance 8 months ago
@SuperHardTrance ..but he didnt. The rule stated he had to give the position back. Which he did. Infact, Kimi was going faster over the start/finish line than Hamilton. The reason Hamilton overtook into la source is because Hamilton outbreaked him. Kimi wasnt sure where to break, Hamilton knew where to break. It wasnt until afterwards where the rule was clarified to "give the advantage back". So Hamilton never cheated and still got punished for it
DarudeF1 8 months ago
@DarudeF1 ok bud... 1 there is following the rules then there is sportsmanship...
2 You can not gain 0.8 of a second and give back 0.5 and say he didnt have an advantage.
3 from 0.49 - 0.56 he is weaving.
4 how many times is he been done for taking people out and weaving... There are many times.
Beleive me i love his racing... i just dont like unfair wins
SuperHardTrance 8 months ago
@SuperHardTrance how was that weaving? He was trying to break the slipstream. If you watch it again notice how Kimi follows Hamilton rather than Hamilton blocking him. So thats fine. If Kimi doesnt want to get blocked then dont move behind him. Whether he only gave back half a second shouldnt have mattered, Kimi crashed out so what advantage Hamilton gained as a result of cutting the chicane wouldnt have mattered..He would have won the race already.
DarudeF1 8 months ago
@SuperHardTrance Oh and yeah he is involved in a lot of incidents, the monaco ones were his fault but I dont get why people blame Hamilton for the Button collision in Canada when it was Jenson who moved over (not deliberate)
DarudeF1 8 months ago
@DarudeF1 Yeah felt sorry for lewis then... coz he was well up 4 it...
SuperHardTrance 8 months ago
@SuperHardTrance
Weaving wasn't banned in 2008
LEWIS2WIN 7 months ago
@LEWIS2WIN so? still not very sporting... Others dont do it
SuperHardTrance 7 months ago
@DarudeF1 Hey you narrow minded dick that monkey happened to be felipe massa who had a phenomenal season and was fighting for the championship i dont agree with the fia anymore than you do but dont criticize other innocent drivers
TheAdams2006 6 months ago
@TheAdams2006 How did Massa deserve to win this race? He wasnt the best or second best here yet the FIA give him the win. And how was I being critical of him??
DarudeF1 6 months ago
@DarudeF1 well the phrase monkey doesn't really sound like a compliment to me
TheAdams2006 6 months ago
@TheAdams2006 Calling him a monkey doesnt mean that hes a bad driver though does it? For the record he had a good season but he didnt deserve to win Spa when Kimi and Lewis were genuinely better all weekend.
DarudeF1 6 months ago
can all you fags stop arguing and just watch the video. so many retards on youtube trynna start some stupid shit all the time. stfu, ur pissing everyone off.
btw sick video, hamilton ftw!
hfcollins 1 year ago 2
fucking hamilton
Hamiltoncheater 1 year ago
ferrari the best
mauro30118 1 year ago
Bloody stewards. This cost Lewis his Championship not China. If he won this then China would have never happened.
M1N1K0B3 1 year ago
Still feel like hamilton had an unfair advantage there... The rule is that you have to wait a corner before attacking again, as you have an speed advantage on the straight if you cut a corner.. If there wasn't such a rule everyone could easily make speed with cutting a corner and attack at the next corner.. As easy as that.. Kimi should had win there.. Hamilton is a fool, I new he would gonna crash in Melbourne.. That guy is just to emotionally charged..
dcggames 1 year ago
The rule, it was modified after this incident. Same, as you wrote it. That wasn't in the regulation that it is necessary to wait for it until the next corner. Sorry for my english.
hexisoft 1 year ago
@dcggames You are the fool, Kimi crashed in case you forgot, and the rule you are referring to (wait until after the next straight to overtake) didn't even exist at the time of this race, it was brought in by the FIA 1 week after Spa during the Italian GP at Monza. All Hamilton had to do was give the place back to Kimi, the word 'advantage' does not even appear anywhere in the FIA rules. As for Melbourne, perhaps you missed the small matter of the crash being entirely Webbers fault,lol.
bmk139 1 year ago
Every race should be like this!!
Thats racing.
Malibutomi 2 years ago 62
@Malibutomi agreed! lose more aero, increase mechanical grip and we'd surely see a hell of a lot more than this.
JontieDesario 1 year ago
@Malibutomi it seems that fia don´t think like you...
portugalfan10 1 year ago
One off*
MENOTYOUism 2 years ago
One or the greatest races ever recorded on videographics..........Ruined by a room full off crooks.....Stroll On.
MENOTYOUism 2 years ago
Awsome win by Lewis (even if he did not get the points) and great race by Kimi as well.
janismateuss 2 years ago
the fact of the matter is that hamilton let kimi past him after the corner, forget about saying lewis didnt lift off enough the important thing is he did let kimi past
kimi crashed after that anyway.
well thats my opinion the FIA ruined a fantastic face, one of the best of the season
Dwalters1988 2 years ago
good vid!
slidel211288 2 years ago
you sad, sad two people.
slidel211288 2 years ago
Icetonky, i'm sorry but i disagree mate. It was discussed (can't remember the exact year, but it was Suzuka) between Allen and Brundle that Charlie whiting can only advise to the teams his opinion of wether or not a team have broken the rules. The rules you have stated were the rules, however after careful examination of the incident, they found out that Lewis gained an advantage from cutting that chicane. As EVERY driver stated, there is noway he would've been close enough...
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
@Neonskyline2004 Nope, you are referring to the 'Alonso/Klein' incident. If you remember that race, Alonso was not pushed onto a chicane, he completely overshot it as his entry speed was far too high. Whiting admitted he hadn't seen Alonso give the place back, and he actually issued a statement after the race stating that Alonso was NOT required to give the place back.
Any advantage Lewis gained he then relinquished, it's right there on the video & it was even backed up with telemetry....
icetonky 2 years ago
..... which Mclaren produced at the FIA hearing that showed Hamilton had lifted voluntarily, and in accordance with the rules, had given the place back. You completely contradict urself stating that "the rules I stated were correct, but Lewis gained an advantage". He didn't, and neither did drivers say he wouldn't have been close enough, as they, or the stewards, could never make such a judgment as it's purely subjective. Driver opinion has no bearing on the rules, and does not justify penalties
icetonky 2 years ago 3
How did i contradict myself? He followed the rules, he gave the place back... however, he gained an advantage, he was closer to the back of Kimi than if he took the chicane correctly... I think the closest thing you can look at it is that, they changed the rules because no-one had done something like that before. Please don't get my wrong, i think the decision was unjust, and i believe that Lewis should've won. Theres no point trying to convince me, i agree... it's just thats how it happened
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
@Neonskyline2004 You cant possibly say he gained an advantage if
a) the word advantage does not appear anywhere in the rules, the term used is place, meaning track position
b) he gave the place back
c) you cant possibly say where Lewis would've been if he had followed Kimi, the possibilities on a wet track, on worn out tyres are endless & no steward would ever rule on 'what if's' or 'could haves'.
d) search 'Massa v Kubica Fuji Onboard' @1.10 multiple chicanes cut & no penalty!
icetonky 2 years ago
I've read your comments and am fully aware that advantage does not appear in the rules, and i have never said otherwise. Yes, he gave the place back, thankyou for pointing out the obvious. It's very possible to say where they would've been due to the fact that Lewis wouldn't have been so close to the back of Kimi, so Draft wouldn't have had such an effect, which in turn would've meant that Lewis wouldn't have been able to launch an attack into turn 1.
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
@Neonskyline2004 My point is, chicane cutting, place given back, no penalty.. durrrr.
As for 'wouldn't of/couldn't of', it's purely subjective and you can't possibly predict such a thing, Lewis was all over that back of Kimi so there is no reason to suggest he wouldn't have been able to overtake, as he wouldn't have had to back off the throttle over the line, meaning he would have had a clear run at Kimi.
icetonky 2 years ago
Checked the video... Kubica cut the first chicane, came out in front going slower, Massa cut the second, came out alongside. Kubica was pushed off the next corner and gave the place back... what's your point? completely different...
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
@Neonskyline2004 As for slipstream, it played absolutely NO PART in the overtake, Lewis was in Kimi's slipstream for around 0.5 second and both cars were travelling too slowly for slipstream to be effective.
It's laughable that people argue that Hamilton should have braked and steered back onto the track, did Kubica and Massa do that in the Fuji vid? Nope.
Did Kimi brake and steer back onto the track when he was using the full length of several run-offs (which aren't part of the racetrack)? Nope
icetonky 2 years ago
Lewis was all over the back of Kimi because of how close he was... where, yet again i point out, he wouldn't have been if he followed the chicane. I haven't said anything about Lewis braking and steering back onto the track, and the argument of "Less grip on the run-offs" counter's the arguement of using them...
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
@Neonskyline2004 Yet again, you cannot possibly judge that, and no stewards decision is ever based on 'what if's' or 'could haves', so the fact that you are trying to justify it by a subjective argument is bullshit, and it shows your lack of racing knowledge.
Going on your daft comments, you have never been anywhere near a racetrack.... especially a wet one, where there is almost always far more grip available off the racing line, and that includes run-offs.
icetonky 2 years ago
By the sounds of it, you're now grasping at straws by making a poor attempt at belittling me. How can there be more grip off the racing line where it's standing water? The racing line dries up quicker due to the cars going through it... which i'm assuming you would already know due to your vast amount of racing knowledge... the "what if's" or "could haves" are from common sense... you go round a chicane, the car in front will always be on the throttle before you...
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
@Neonskyline2004 thanks i was just looking back at the point i was trying to make 7 months ago and you nailed it hamilton wouldnt have been close enough to overtake kimi if he hadnt cut the chicane ... who knows who would have won after that but i think raikkkonen lol
scarletchoose 1 year ago
i think you'll find i didn't contradict myself... I have never said that Lewis broke the rules. I have said that the rules you have stated are correct, however he did gain an advantage. He followed the rules to the letter like he did in his first year and that is the same reason he got heavily penalised. All the drivers have unwritten gentleman rules which they've all followed, Lewis followed the rule book. The stewards rewrote the rule after this incident, because being 6kmh slower is nothing
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
Wrong again, there is no such thing as an unwriten rule, the rules are in place and there are thousands of them that govern everything from complex things like how the ECU electronics control shift, to minor things like the size of sponsor logo's. There had already been a precedent set for this by Charlie Whiting at Suzuka06 during the Alonso/Klein incident.
As for 6kph, that figure is irrelevant, because there is nothing in the rules about speed, only 'place', which Lewis slowed to give back
icetonky 2 years ago
no such thing as an unwritten rule? serious? stop fighting the fact that if Lewis had gone through the chicane, then by the time he crossed the line behind Kimi he would've been a lot slower than 6kmh, which is the evidence that Mclaren provided to prove that Lewis gave the place back. The Stewards rewrote the rules because no-one had done something like that before so only giving the place back was acceptable. They realised that in this case an "advantage" was gained so they changed the rules
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
Yet again your ignorant stupidity is laughable, I've even given you links to other races where such incidents have happened (Alonso/Klein, Massa/Kubica), even try searching out some of Schumi's numerous chicane cuts on the likes of Hakkinen & Montoya. If you don't understand the real reason why the rules were changed, I suggest you seek out Bernie Ecclestones comments last xmas when he confirmed Ferrari had a secret deal with the FIA, £millions changed hands in return for Ferrari favoritism.
icetonky 2 years ago
what's with personal insults? You've provided different situations, where positions were given back and no overtake was immediately made. You've provided evidence and then as soon as i argue with it, you find a new way to argue. Ferrari's deal was the veto of decision's that the FIA made, not the stewards. I've provided possible reasons for the change, all you've done is just say that the change was wrong, all because Lewis got a penalty. They happen, it's a sport
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
Comment removed
scarletchoose 2 years ago
I Totally agree with Formula1master what he is saying makes sense 1:45 says it all really hamilton is quality and if your english and ur commenting agasint him then ur dumb english stick with each other
2010taylorswiftlover 2 years ago
@2010taylorswiftlover ... im british and have been a kimi fan for years even before he was in f1 .. so why should i change because hamilton is britsih i went to silverstone 2007 (kimi won) and had a kimi cap and t-shirt on and even waving a finland flag kimi no! good luck in wrc and vettel for the crown in 2010 ... lewis cut the corner and deserved his penalty
scarletchoose 2 years ago
@scarletchoose So you think he deserved the penalty, even though he gave the place back in accordance with the rules? Are you a typical biased Kimifan who thinks rules should never apply to Kimi.
If you are british, then you would have watched this race on ITV-F1, and you would have heard the convo between Charlie Whiting & Ron Dennis minutes after the incident in which Whiting confirmed twice that Hamilton had followed the rules. He had, so they re-wrote them AFTER the race.
icetonky 2 years ago
@icetonky ..yes lewis let kimi by but straight away dived into kimis slipstream and overtook kimi all the drivers say there are no overtaking on the final straight because it isnt long enough so there is a fact hamilton got the advantage . as for ron dennis he is mclaren so he is gonna stick up for hamilton i admit the penalty might have been harsh but what can you do kimi should have won the race so i think a 10 grid penalty would have been better ...GO KIMI
scarletchoose 2 years ago
@scarletchoose Please forward me a link to the FIA rule that says there is no overtaking on the final straight.
You are talking out of ur arse, the word 'advantage' is NOT mentioned anywhere in the rules, and there is nothing written in the rules that says Hamilton could not do what he did.
As for slipstream, it played absolutely NO PART in the overtake, as Hamilton was in Kimi's slipstream for around 0.5 of a second, and both cars were travelling too slowly for slipstream to be effective.
icetonky 2 years ago
@icetonky so your telling me that if hamilton had backed off and went around the corner properly he would have been close enough to pass raikkonen into la sourse? no chance listen to the drivers coments after the race and they agree he took and advantage to be close to kimi entering la saurse .. and advantage is in the rules otherwise drivers would all go straight on passed the chacaine int races like monza and spa this rule stops drivers doing that
scarletchoose 2 years ago
You cannot possibly say where either driver would have been had they followed different lines, the possiblities of a wet track on worn out tyres are infinite. Why should Hamilton have braked hard and steered back onto the track? Did Kimi do that on the run-offs?
As for the 'advantage', IT IS NOT in the rules, nor is it even mentioned in the rules, and whatever the drivers opinions were, they also didn't know the new rules, which is why they asked for clarification at Monza the following week
icetonky 2 years ago
i can possible say hamilton would not had been close enough to kimi to pass him into la saurse had he taken the corner properly HE CUT THE CORNER !!!!!!!!?????? fucking advantage forget if he gave the place back or not he shouldnt have been there !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
scarletchoose 2 years ago
@scarletchoose You are a retard, and a typical biased Kimi fan.
Kimi shouldn't have been on the run-offs, but he still used them as they are not part of the racetrack.
As for Hamilton, you are forgetting he was pushed wide by Kimi, and he gave the place back, so there was no advantage. You can throw up all the dumb, ignorant arguments you like, but the fact is Hamilton followed the rules, and did exactly what they required him to do.... give the place back.
icetonky 2 years ago
Here are the rules that were in place at the time:
Hamilton was penalized under appendix L to the International Sporting Code (Chapter IV, Article 2.g):
The race track alone shall be used by the drivers during the race.
(Clause: In the event of a driver cutting a chicane and gaining a position, he has to give that place back).
After Spa, the clause was re-written to include:
he not only [has] to give that place back but should also wait for another corner before he [can] attempt to retake it
icetonky 2 years ago
i completely agree with you. kimi happened to crash while being on a runoff area! as for the penalty as i have said time and time again, even if they did change the rules it was still legal because of the incident at 1:45. if someone leaves the track under the safety car they are allowed to overtake the person who has made the mistake! Kimi went off the road and hamilton took the place back again then too. that move was completely legal even if the other wasnt and the rule makes no difference
Formula1master 2 years ago
@scarletchoose Do you even know who Charlie Whiting is? He is the most senior FIA official in F1. It is his job to direct the stewards, so if Whiting says Hamilton followed the rules, then he followed the rules, so your argument for a 10 place grid drop is bullshit.
Perhaps you missed the small matter of Kimi crashing all on his own after losing the back end whilst driving on the run-offs. 'Should haves' and 'could haves' mean fuck all, Kimi crashed, the race was Hamiltons
icetonky 2 years ago
@icetonky Charlie Whiting said that hamilton followed the rules ????? so why the penalty ???
scarletchoose 2 years ago
@scarletchoose Good question..... and that is exactly why there was such uproar over this penalty, and why it is still discussed in great detail now.
The ridiculous thing about it was that once Mclaren said they had telemetry to prove that Lewis backed off the throttle and let Kimi have track position back (as per the rules), the FIA then re-wrote the rule and introduced it I week after Spa during the Italian GP @ Monza, applying it retrospectively.
That isn't fair, it's bullshit FIA politics
icetonky 2 years ago
sorry to join in... Charlie Whiting can only "Advise" on the rules, he doesn't confirm if someone is right or not, it's down to the stewards who decide. Though i believe Lewis gained an advantage, he still would've won so i think the penalty was extremely harsh. If there were enough laps to do a drive through, than he would've received that, got back on the track and overtook everyone to win. It's just unlucky timing...
Neonskyline2004 2 years ago
Sorry m8 you are wrong. Stewards cannot pick and choose what they investigate, they are directed by Whiting via co-ordinator Alan Donnelly. In the past Whiting has given his final say, and he & Donnelly are the only 2 full time FIA stewards in F1.
As for the 'advantage', that word is not even mentioned anywhere in the rules, the term used is 'place', which Hamilton gave back.
'What if' or 'could have' is irrelevant, Hamilton followed the rules that were in place at the time, and that's fact
icetonky 2 years ago
Absolutly fantastic!
raketak111 2 years ago
In the NBA they call that kind of move Lewia did on Kimi an 'ankle breaker' !!!
X-D Go Lewis!
davidsimsjr55 2 years ago
sure, hamilton gained an advantage... hmmm, about a whole tenth even! oh he so deserved to have been docked 25 seconds... so what those part time stewards decided was that if hamilton hadn't cut the chicane he would've lost 25 seconds? hmmm... that's why, wait what? massa won? but he was never even in the running, oh well, he drives a red car and the other crashed so may aswell just gift him the race on a platter...
FormulaOneFan4Eva 2 years ago
i dont disagree with the rule that if you cheat then you get a penalty, and if its at the end of the race, you can get a time penalty, but it is still wrong, contemplate my P.O.V. at 1:45 hamilton goes off and raikkonen gets the place back again! now if hamilton cant take it back before the next corner that is equivalent to a yellow flag situation am i right? in france 2002, schumacher overtook kimi when kimi went off the road under yellow flags, because of his mistake. isnt this the same thing?
Formula1master 2 years ago
FIA FERRARI INTERNATINAL ASISTANCE
janeyb2006 2 years ago
Janeyb2006: You are so clever mate, loved your joke. But I am afraid you don't know how to spell 'Assistance'.
Go back to schooll, you moron.
consulini1 2 years ago
You can't even spell "International" or "Assistance".
ohargreaves 2 years ago
Oooh beware, it's the you-tube grammar police ,lol.
icetonky 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
hamilton is a twat
FISHURMOMBALL 2 years ago
Oh how refreshing, yet another bitter, ignorant Kimifan posting silly, immature comments.
bmk139 2 years ago
yes. you are exactly right
FISHURMOMBALL 2 years ago
so are you!
wiggywaawaa 2 years ago
You are completely missing the point, .
Hamilton did not choose to cut the chicane, nor did he overshoot the corner, he was pushed wide by Kimi.
If the rules state only that Hamilton must give the place back, and he does exactly that, then how can that be abusing the rules? It isn't, even Charlie Whiting confirmed Hamilton had followed the rules during the race.
Hamilton cutting the chicane had no bearing on his ability to overtake at the next corner. So yes, you are wrong & ur opinion biased
bmk139 2 years ago 2
Actually Hamilton himself admitted that he could have gone through the chicane normally, but the racer in him made him cut it. And to be honest I couldn't care about this anymore ... people get lives this was last year. It's all in the past
kimigogome 2 years ago
Lmao.... If you couldn't care less about it, then why are you commenting?
As for your comment, i wonder which bullshit media story that was from, as Hamilton defended his actions due to him being penalized for not using the racetrack.... exactly the same rule Kimi broke with his 3 off-track excursions onto run-offs, gaining speed and traction in the process.
Kimi could also have steered back onto the track but he didn't, or maybe the rules should only be applied to Hamilton?
bmk139 2 years ago 12
Comment removed
kimigogome 2 years ago
If Kimi would have finished then he probably would have been penalized, but as he retired why bother? Also I think I read this in F1 Racing but if I'm honest I can't remember. I'll look at it
kimigogome 2 years ago
@bmk139 I TOTALLY AGREE! Why is it the idiotic haters berate Hamilton for cheating, when Raikkonen did what you said many times, but failed to gain advantage. Also, what people forget is that in 2009 @ Spa, Kimi put 4 wheels on the grass @ the top of Kemmel to overtake Fisi - and yet the FIA never batted an eyelid!
Formula One is a story of corruption, and with Jean Todt now in charge, I fear it will probably get worse.
RoLLWithITOasis1 1 year ago
@bmk139 Oke mister fool expert, Kimi crashed because he gave everything he had to catch Hamilton back after he had passed him using an advantage.. You can't say he didn't had any... So rule or not, he wouldn't have passed Kimi if he didn't cut that specific corner.. O, and about Melbourne, Webber couldn't go any other direction because Hamilton, he got blocked easily by Alonso.. And don't you think Hamilton should take a class for driving in the rain?? Because he sucked mann..
dcggames 1 year ago
@dcggames Dumbass, if Kimi can't keep his car on the track then it's his own fault for using the run off areas. You cannot possibly what would have happened if either driver had taken a different line, the possibilities on a wet track on worn out tyres are endless and it is entirely subjective. No stewards decision has ever been made on ifs or buts.
You show your ignorance of F1 by your last stupid comment, the driver with the highest wet win ratio in F1 is Lewis, 40% compared to Vettels 22%
bmk139 1 year ago
@dcggames Only an absolute retard would claim any driver who - overtook every driver who finished in front of him except Kubica, who overtook both Ferraris TWICE and Webber TWICE), who made the best moves of the race, who got held up in his 1st pit stop and lost a place to Rubens, then called in for a pointless tyre change when he was guaranteed a podium, then shunted off the track by Webber (who even admitted the crash was 100% his fault and apologized to Hamilton) "sucked mann". LOL
bmk139 1 year ago
@bmk139 Hoooeee, really eating your hard out there buddy.. Well you just keep supporting Hamilton.. Maybe he will be your boyfriend someday.. O, and about following the sport.. I'm the only one of us two who can say that I have race experience in karting and autosport.. So quit playing the expert when you aren't.. lol
dcggames 1 year ago
@dcggames Judging by your utterly stupid comments, I very much doubt if you have ever been on a racetrack, in fact I'd put money on you being full of shit, lol.
bmk139 1 year ago
@bmk139 Just keep playing the tough guy.. Easy huh?? On internet.. Doubt whatever you want, I don't give a damn about what you think.. And you're saying my comments are stupid?? XD Well read some stuff of your own.. Bullshit against bullshit.. seems fairplay to me.. lol O, and please stop spamming my profile page with your nonsense, it looks a bit pathetic...
dcggames 1 year ago
@dcggames Tough guy? Lol, I'm just taking the piss out of you. Yes your comments are stupid, and very immature. Nobody who has ever competed (seriously) on a racetrack would use subjective arguments about racing lines on a wet track with worn out tyres. Perhaps if you had read my comments properly you would have seen an objective and informed argument, where as your argument is the kind of comments I'd expect from a petulant teenager ("he will be ur boyfriend, ect). Lol
bmk139 1 year ago