Kyle, I have noticed in all your shooting videos you run the FSB up or maybe it is fixed. Can you tell me what sight that is and why you prefer to run it at way? I have tried that but it seemed to cloud my FOV. Also do you run the Sight up when you are using your Leupold to?
great drill and i've been through muliple shooting packages and have 2 combat deployments. BUT the only problem i have with these drills is the fact that when you shoot human at this distance, or any distance, they then to drop to the ground after the first shot or two depending on how fast you are. you need to incorperate a target falling to the ground when it comes to the clean up shots, because they will not be stationary or still standiing
Which sight do you recommend for an AR? I have a bushnell red/green sight and it sticks too far off my rifle. I like the looks of the one on your rifle, and I'm sure you don't use anything but the best. Thanks.
@shocknawefilms I use the Leupold 1-8 or an EOTech right now. Although Leupold will have a new 1-6 out soon and that will be the prime choice in my book.
That's only cause you have been condition and trained to think that way! If you have ever been in real combat you would understand my point of view...... Good luck and be safe out there!!!
Why not put 3 round center mass on each target, then reevaluate and put more rounds on target if needed? The other targets could be advancing on you while you are still working on the first one. Just a thought.
@G4Disco That was actually my thinking when I first saw this. Best to shock each target with a round and re-evaluate, especially if you're in a stack and the guys behind you are doing the same thing. However this is a drill meant to train moving your gun rapidly between shots, not true tactics, which is why it's shot the way it is.
This is incorrect about accuracy shooting because you dont just want to shoot in small groups you want to make a mess out of your target. its much harder for a surgeon to save a persons life with multitude of bullets entering the body but if you shoot him in small group the greater chance he will survive even if shot in the head...... So make your shoots all over the body..... unless you have innocent civilians behind your target in that case you will need to control your shoots. good luck..
@guardianation This is the dumbest thing I have read in some time. "So make your shoots all over the body". This is a foolish statement and I hope no one is taking your advice seriously. No professional organizations teach their shooters to spread their shots, it's just ridiculous.
Great stuff as usual Kyle. What type/brand timer is that you are using? Very interested in getting one of these to improve my shooting. Thanks in advance for your response. Happy holidays and Merry Christmas to you and the family!
@Red53Rider I use the Competition Electronics Pro II, however I would not recommend it, I go through 2-3 a year but have not made the change to a better timer, there are some smaller timers available that give you just as many options I have not gotten around to buying one yet.
I'm about to order an upper from BCM with your TRX handguard on it, quick question what ammo do you guys prefer for training? Thanks for the vids, you guys put out great stuff.
Normally I shoot 55 grain ball or 62 grain ball. If you are looking for great practice ammo contact ASYM, Stan Chen can get you bulk, high quality, ammo.
Sir, are you guys looking at the dot or looking pass the dot? i tend to focus at the dot, but the dot is a bit blurred, so meaning i'm looking pass the dot, im always tracking a blurry dot. Should i train to focus completely on the dot like iron sights or the target when using electronic sights..
@TheSafetysoff It depends on the distance. When I am shooting up close I tend to see more of a blurry dot this isn’t an issue because of the distance, when I shoot at distance I focus on the dot like a front sight to maintain accuracy.
You should work at shifting your focus but always seeing your sights before you send a round down range.
@VikingTactics Hello Mr. Lamb. I just want to say I really respect what you do and what you have done. I practically started with your book Green Eyes Black Rifles when I got into tactical shooting. I'd been shooting my whole life but the book helped me more than I can explain. I was wondering why do you prefer EOTechs over Aimpoints? I know a lot of SOF use the EOTech for the speed.
@Musashiprodigy I prefer a sight that works, that is not always the case with the EOTech. If the EOTech works it is faster than the Aimpoint, if it doesn’t work obviously it diminishes your speed a lot.
I am currently transitioning to the new Leupold 1-6.
ive done a similar drill that, when i was taught it, is called the three hole punch. one to the pelvis, then chest, then t box. this wasnt a TTP but rather "remember the three spots most likely to take down an armed opponent" mindset. ive had a few others say it was a pointless drill and even slagged this one. i continue to do it for the round placement in vital areas mindset. any thoughts to where, if anywhere, your drill might be of use outside CQB or in other capacities?
hi, i am apart of ROTC and i just got back from my first FTX about two weeks ago. when we were there we shot M16s and M4, our instructors told us to place our non-firing hand just ahead of where the magazine is. i see your shooters are holding it towards the front sight, is that for better stability?
@ARomanianKid14 Better stability, easier to drive and stop the weapon, easier to manipulate your light system, also gives more strength in a weapons retention situation.
Good luck with your ROTC program, let us know if you or your mates need anything else.
@ARomanianKid14 It's becoming a popular technique since it cuts recoil, allows faster "snapping" to targets, everything KL said. I think you should keep in mind though, that with a conventional M4, you might burn your hand on the hot front sight post (wear gloves.)
Only downside is a drill like this could create training scars leaving you putting more rounds on individual targets than necessary (and not moving on to engage other targets with less overall time) as well as shooting for non-kill areas like the pelvis. Even if it puts the guy on the ground, that doesn't mean he is out of the fight.
@JAndersonIV The problems we see involve folks double tapping and not driving their wpn b/w tgts.
This is a shooting drill, not a scenario. it teaches folks to quickly drive from tgt to tgt and lead with their eyes. It also teaches them to shoot more than 2 rds into the chest IOT break the double tap or hammer “Training Scar”. It'll also help you to open your field of view & not get sucked into just looking thru ur sights while attempting to acquire a target quickly.
Best recommendation I have would be to use bullseye targets to alleviate the confusion between shooting drills for skill development and tactical scenarios. This will hopefully alleviate any “training scar” issues.
Very impressive and thank you for your service to our country. I was wondering what is your opinion on the new 6.8mm SPC round and some of the new piston driven AR platforms such as the LWRC M6 series and the Barrett REC7. I know the old DI vs Piston argument and 5.56 vs (Insert bigger round) has been argued to hell already but I was wondering if I could get the opinion of a former elite operator such as yourself. Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
@PokemonHaloFan If I had to choose 5.56 or 6.8 SPC I would pick 5.56.
If I had to chose between 5.56 and 7.62 I would pick 7.62.
6.8 SPC is not proven, and most of the data I have seen is smoke and mirrors. I would take the 7.62 any day of the week.
Piston/Direct, who cares? Does your weapon work? I have no issues with a DI system, have had a few issues with certain Piston Systems...I think the receiver said Made in Germany.
@TheJaaysog Have you ever been assaulted by a serious, motivated criminal who's out of jail for "good behavior"? Don't assume that your experiences represent all available experiences. To do so is ultimately limited in cognitive scope.
This drill is designed to teach the student to DRIVE the gun!!...you people need to listen. And until you can do it in under six seconds maybe you should just be quiet.
This drill is designed to teach the student to DRIVE THE GUN!!...you people need to listen. And until you can do it in under six seconds maybe you should just be quiet.
after reading some of the comments all I have to say is oh my god. This is a fantastic DRILL, there should be less argueing about a freaking pelvis shot. Here is another very simple rule for a gunfight my old 1stSgt used to tell us. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice, and anything worth shooting twice is worth emptying a magazine into. A pelvis shot is taken to break the combatants ability to move. and the added benefit of blood bearing organs. It is a nasty shot that hurts a lot.
I would use three bullseyes on each target stand to simulate the Gravity boxes on the VTAC Targets. Head, chest, pelvis with a 6 inch bull would make this a good drill.
@nafetshtor What a stupid law that is... LMAO @ Germany... Can you shoot just a black silouhette in the shape of a human? If not, just put the 3 boxs on a square piece of cardboard and envision what you're doing...
@Delta8559272 We put one round in the pelvis because that is the drill, simply teaching students to drive the weapon. In a confrontation we would pick the available vital area and continue to engage the threat until it is neutralized. If I had a pelvis shot I would definitely take it.
You can shoot this any way you want, just remember, this is a drill not a scenario.
@VikingTactics i see but wouldnt a mozambique be faster with mulitple engagements like this exercise? but i know you will be faster and more comfortable with what you train with.
@ijackofftoanime i understand that, but a shot to the pelvis will only immobilize the target while he is fully capable to fire back in the 5 minutes it takes him to bleed out. and if there is a potential for body armor take a mans rifle the M1A socom 2.
@Delta8559272 the immobilization by the pelvis shot will make it easier to make the head shot.
A rifle IS capable of penetrating SOFT body armor, but if the target is wearing a HARD CHEST PLATE in his vest, a chest shot with your M1A socom 2 won't do a damn thing.
@ijackofftoanime that HARD chest plate you are talking about is a ceramic plate made from pressed boron carbide, that is made to shater on impact and if you are running with and M1A why are you using sporter rounds... you use military steel penetrators that run hot. and yes it will stop the first bullet as it should buth if the second shot is within 6 inches of the last one the hard plate will be powder and no resistance.
@Delta8559272 It depends, that ESAPI plate can withstand a lot more than it's actually rated for. Like a 3" grouping of M2 AP (30-06) plus three rounds of M855 (5.56) and then hit with M80 ball (7.62x51), then on a second shot of M80 there was a partial penetration. In that case, a triple tap with M80 or Mk 319 wouldn't have killed the guy. It very well might have done some nasty blunt force injury, but that's all.
@ijackofftoanime and P.S. most if not all military type 3 vests have provisional plates for the pelvis and groin area thus rendering the shot almost if not completely useless
@ijackofftoanime yes but the shot to the head would be the thing to put him down. there is no body armor that protects the head well enough to protect from a .308
@Delta8559272 The groin protector is soft armor. There are generally four strike plates available, front and rear and both sides. In SAPI form they're rated for M80 ball (7.62x51 NATO) and in E-SAPI form they're rated for M2 AP (30-06/7.62x63mm, steel or tungsten penetrator). The dude in the video is Kyle Lamb, he was in Delta/CAG/whatever they call it now, I'd be willing to assume he knows what he's doing.
@Nater245689 first pertson to know what hes talking about. generally what ive seen with the groin protectors is the hard plate never soft armor. now im not saying he dosent know what hes tallking about im just saying that a typical mozambique will work better because there is no SAPI or E-SAPI plates in helmets or faceshields.
@Delta8559272 Groin protectors are soft armor in the IBA, MTV and Osprey kits you'd see issued to US and British troops. SAPI and E-SAPI plates only come in front/rear/left side/right side torso sections and nothing else.. The best groin armor out there is Type IIIA. I wouldn't think the military would be too concerned about going beyond Type II as handgun rounds like the .357 SIG and .44 Magnum are not likely to be encountered on the battlefield.
@Nater245689 you have a good point but you and soo many have yet to acknowlege that THERE IS NO BODY ARMOR FOR THR HEAD OR FACE. ergo it is a softer target. the pelvis may be a bigger target but a shot to the head drops them instantly if its not a grazing shot. and again a shot to the pelvis will leave them to blead out, the 5.56 punches a really clean small hole the initial shock of the wound may knock then unconcious but they will get up and fight again.
@Delta8559272 As I said before, The pelvis is an easier target than the head.
It's better to have a sure hit to the pelvis, after which you can spend all day shooting him in the head now that he's crawling around on the ground with a broken pelvis, rather than missing the guys head leaving him completely unharmed and continuing to shoot at you.
But you seem to be missing the point. The whole point is that the pelvis is a viable target which everyone seems to overlook.
@ijackofftoanime yes but when he is crawling around on the ground he still has his rifle and a working trigger finger...now you have a man with nothing to lose, shooting at you until he runs out of ammo or bleeds out. and yes the pelvis is better than nothing but i am arguing the point that a head shot is a superior shot to take than the pelvis because it is an immediate down instead of waiting 3 minutes for him to bleed out
@Delta8559272 Brass tax, the pelvis is a large cavity of the body that can house a lot of internal bleeding once vital organs are struck. Multiple wounds in different areas of the body would cause uncontrollable shock because the body has to kick into survival mode on more than one area on the body. The drill is also excellent in teaching that an opponent could have the opportunity of wearing body armor. The shot in the head is for insurance purposes.
@sforcesrcg We try to shoot from a fighting stance, the square stance does not allow for quick movement and driving the weapon as quickly. The last issue of Book of the AR-15 had an article that we wrote about the fighting stance.
@turdferguson9725 I prefer to point my weapon at the threat quickly. Have you read the article I wrote about Fighting Stance vs Shooting Stance? I don’t want to rely on the threat’s ability to aim at my plates, and as far as that goes the difference is negligible.
@VikingTactics No, I haven't. Was the article in last years book of the AR? The one I got recently has your article about rollover prone and impact shifts. I have read your book though. I guess I'll just have to learn it in one of your classes. On that note, thanks for bringing classes to AZ, when so many others won't.
@John234pwns I think that makes sense if you are really close in to the threat. The goal of this drill is to get the shooter to abruptly change directions with the weapon several times. Each tactical decision will dictate what will be shot first.
“Anything worth shooting is worth shooting 30 times” -Kyle Lamb
@Buckbaggums Absolutely not, only with a machine gun. Through all the years of training, auto fire is not needed and no more effective in a CQB scenario than semi auto fire. Of course this is just my opinion....
@Zulu1380 Most high explosives won't detonate from a bullet impact. They require a supersonic shockwave to initiate the reaction, such as a spark-gap (with or without a booster charge) or lower-level primary charge. You can shoot bricks of C-4 all day and it won't detonate.
@Zulu1380 It is actually pretty hard to detonate explosives by shooting them. Most terrorists use things like Symtex and RDX, that don't detonate when hit by gunfire.
In the time it takes the shoot the center target, the ones on the sides will hose you. I prefer the IDF version of this drill, which would only work with "targets" that are afraid of being shot at.
Nothing says America like an AR 15. I'm super jellous! I'm saving for my first AR 15 down here in New Zealand at the moment. The problem is it will cost me $5000 just for a basic model and I have to get a special endorsement for my licence if it has any of the typical 'assualt rifle features' hope u guys in the states know how privledged you guys are :)
@ginjaninja1988 Get a new girlfriend! It's pretty easy in the states to find a good girl... Especially with that kiwi accent. The women here are batshit crazy about accents from New Zealand, Australia, South Africa etc
@flyhighkev Might be a good idea. New Zealand women can be a bloddy pain in the arse. Plus i just landed a really good sales role in the military arms industry so I might transfer within company to the US in a few years or so... theres so many more opportunities up there :)
@ginjaninja1988 Most of us have it good but dont think for a second their arent retards over here that want to ban us from having them. Not to mention places like california where its increasingly harder every year to own anything that remotely resembles an ar-15. Good luck to ya
Bear in mind that a lot of drills are designed to reinforce skills used in combat, not to emulate combat. The drill is based on an experience, it is not necessarily what exactly occurred. Much as working a sway ball, or slip rope in the boxing ring doesn't exactly emulate a boxing match, these drills reinforces skills that are vital to be successful. Quick initial hits on the target, quick transitions between target ares, quick transitions to additional threats. A good drill.
I would argue that if these "targets" were bad guys I reckon it would take too long to cycle through all 3 without the risk that at least one of them would gets shots off at you.
@AusJackal This drill was actually put together to replicate the experience one of our instructors had engaging three terrorists wearing suicide vests. Seemed to work okay for him....
@VikingTactics If the bad guys had suicide vests and were that close together! Still think spending so long on each target increases your risk of being shot or in thiis case blown up! And no firearms. Still think that one shot in the kill zone in each and a follow up if they don't go down would be quicker and safer.
@AusJackal Nothing more amusing than some clown on the internet critiquing a former Operator from the MOST ELITE MILITARY UNIT ON THE PLANET EARTH (with all due respect to the Blades of the S.A.S). Thank You for uploading these videos Kyle they are excellent as is your book.
@AusJackal You are not the only one who has served Chief. I do not want to debate you, bc no matter who you are, you are not/nor will ever be Kyle Lambs equal, this is an empirical fact. Kyle served in the premier SMU of the Us and in most peoples opinion, the world. Kyle is not a "so called expert" he is maybe THE expert on issues regarding shooting tactics. Your "hostile ops" are nothing compared to what an SMU does. I do not like to degrade others service but you are a grade A sh*tbag.
@kimball902 I doubt that about 99% of the rest of the world would agree with you about "premier SMU". You still need to grow up. Tell you what do. Try this drill with people armed with fx rounds (that shoot back) I will guarantee you by the time the single shooter moves to the second target he'll me DEAD, cos the 2nd or 3rd bad guy will have engaged. So you called me a clown and shit bag because I have an opinion and my EXPERIENCE contradicts this video... real mature.
@AusJackal Nothing more amusing than some clown on the internet critiquing a former Operator from the MOST ELITE MILITARY UNIT ON THE PLANET EARTH (with all due respect to the Blades of the S.A.S). Thank You for uploading these videos Kyle they are excellent as is your book.
@AusJackal@AusJackal Nothing more amusing than some clown on the internet critiquing a former Operator from the MOST ELITE MILITARY UNIT ON THE PLANET EARTH (with all due respect to the Blades of the S.A.S). Thank You for uploading these videos Kyle they are excellent as is your book.
@kimball902 the fact that people like you believe everything you see on the net as being "gospel" is the reason so many people are killed trying to emulate these so called experts. I am not about the debate my back ground but I can assure you I do know what I'm talking about. If the person who experienced this scenario achieved his engagement unharmed then there would have a large element of luck.
@AusJackal some drills are designed to help with your ability to manipulate a weapon or drive the gun, obviously your not going to run into too many situations where three men of exact size stand in a perfect line waiting to be shot, but doing a drill like this teaches you to drive the gun and make nice accurate shots under time/stress constraints.by your reasoning no one should shoot a rifle slow fire qual because the "enemy" wont stand still while you shoot at him from 300yd's.
@notanotch1107 Good question. I have seen it both ways. If it is a new student I would probably make them shoot from the dominant eye side. I am heavily left eye dominant but continuously work to be able to use my right eye. There are plenty of tricks to making the eyes see something differently.
Kyle I enjoyed the short conversation we had today at the NRA convention. I was the tall black guy from Winston-Salem. Thanks for the insight an I really look forward to taking one of your carbine classes. stay safe!
Is this this real life training, or just a transition drill? Meaning, would you really place rounds in those areas of the body in that sequence in a threat situation?
It makes me cringe to think about taking a 5.56 round to the pelvis.
If someone was wearing hard armor designed to stop high velocity rifle projectiles, or they were continuing to close the distance w/ you, the pelvis & hard drive would be great places to bust. A Lieutenant shot one of the NCO's in my Battalion in Korea through the pelvis & it shut him down quick. It was supposed to be a blank fire exercise, but the douche had brought a live mag of 5.56 tracers IIRC & had them in his LBV. Dude survived, but was seriously ruined for life. LT went bye-bye after.
Kyle, I have noticed in all your shooting videos you run the FSB up or maybe it is fixed. Can you tell me what sight that is and why you prefer to run it at way? I have tried that but it seemed to cloud my FOV. Also do you run the Sight up when you are using your Leupold to?
TheOperator150 1 day ago
Now I know who taught Chuck Norris what he knows.
HAUSS81 1 week ago
great drill and i've been through muliple shooting packages and have 2 combat deployments. BUT the only problem i have with these drills is the fact that when you shoot human at this distance, or any distance, they then to drop to the ground after the first shot or two depending on how fast you are. you need to incorperate a target falling to the ground when it comes to the clean up shots, because they will not be stationary or still standiing
rambosperm 1 week ago
5.04...damn
mynameisjohn87 2 weeks ago
Is that a La Rue tactical he is using?
Dfnsvend099 1 month ago
Love this drill, thanks Kyle!
Volkov556 1 month ago
Kyle,
Which sight do you recommend for an AR? I have a bushnell red/green sight and it sticks too far off my rifle. I like the looks of the one on your rifle, and I'm sure you don't use anything but the best. Thanks.
Erik Schacht
shocknawefilms 1 month ago
@shocknawefilms I use the Leupold 1-8 or an EOTech right now. Although Leupold will have a new 1-6 out soon and that will be the prime choice in my book.
ADIOS
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 month ago 3
That's only cause you have been condition and trained to think that way! If you have ever been in real combat you would understand my point of view...... Good luck and be safe out there!!!
guardianation 2 months ago
Why not put 3 round center mass on each target, then reevaluate and put more rounds on target if needed? The other targets could be advancing on you while you are still working on the first one. Just a thought.
G4Disco 2 months ago
@G4Disco That was actually my thinking when I first saw this. Best to shock each target with a round and re-evaluate, especially if you're in a stack and the guys behind you are doing the same thing. However this is a drill meant to train moving your gun rapidly between shots, not true tactics, which is why it's shot the way it is.
lukipelaSOD 2 months ago
This is incorrect about accuracy shooting because you dont just want to shoot in small groups you want to make a mess out of your target. its much harder for a surgeon to save a persons life with multitude of bullets entering the body but if you shoot him in small group the greater chance he will survive even if shot in the head...... So make your shoots all over the body..... unless you have innocent civilians behind your target in that case you will need to control your shoots. good luck..
guardianation 2 months ago
@guardianation This is the dumbest thing I have read in some time. "So make your shoots all over the body". This is a foolish statement and I hope no one is taking your advice seriously. No professional organizations teach their shooters to spread their shots, it's just ridiculous.
links0311 2 months ago
Great stuff as usual Kyle. What type/brand timer is that you are using? Very interested in getting one of these to improve my shooting. Thanks in advance for your response. Happy holidays and Merry Christmas to you and the family!
Red53Rider 2 months ago
@Red53Rider I use the Competition Electronics Pro II, however I would not recommend it, I go through 2-3 a year but have not made the change to a better timer, there are some smaller timers available that give you just as many options I have not gotten around to buying one yet.
Kyle
VikingTactics 2 months ago
I'm about to order an upper from BCM with your TRX handguard on it, quick question what ammo do you guys prefer for training? Thanks for the vids, you guys put out great stuff.
Glockcrazy19 2 months ago
@Glockcrazy19 I prefer FREE ammo.....
Normally I shoot 55 grain ball or 62 grain ball. If you are looking for great practice ammo contact ASYM, Stan Chen can get you bulk, high quality, ammo.
Kyle
VikingTactics 2 months ago
Sir, are you guys looking at the dot or looking pass the dot? i tend to focus at the dot, but the dot is a bit blurred, so meaning i'm looking pass the dot, im always tracking a blurry dot. Should i train to focus completely on the dot like iron sights or the target when using electronic sights..
TheSafetysoff 2 months ago
@TheSafetysoff It depends on the distance. When I am shooting up close I tend to see more of a blurry dot this isn’t an issue because of the distance, when I shoot at distance I focus on the dot like a front sight to maintain accuracy.
You should work at shifting your focus but always seeing your sights before you send a round down range.
Kyle
VikingTactics 2 months ago
@VikingTactics ...Thank you, that make alot of sense..
TheSafetysoff 2 months ago
@VikingTactics Hello Mr. Lamb. I just want to say I really respect what you do and what you have done. I practically started with your book Green Eyes Black Rifles when I got into tactical shooting. I'd been shooting my whole life but the book helped me more than I can explain. I was wondering why do you prefer EOTechs over Aimpoints? I know a lot of SOF use the EOTech for the speed.
Musashiprodigy 2 months ago
@Musashiprodigy I prefer a sight that works, that is not always the case with the EOTech. If the EOTech works it is faster than the Aimpoint, if it doesn’t work obviously it diminishes your speed a lot.
I am currently transitioning to the new Leupold 1-6.
Kyle
VikingTactics 2 months ago
@VikingTactics That makes sense. Interesting choice. I'm a big fan of Aimpoints and ACOGs. Thank you for the reply.
Musashiprodigy 2 months ago
ive done a similar drill that, when i was taught it, is called the three hole punch. one to the pelvis, then chest, then t box. this wasnt a TTP but rather "remember the three spots most likely to take down an armed opponent" mindset. ive had a few others say it was a pointless drill and even slagged this one. i continue to do it for the round placement in vital areas mindset. any thoughts to where, if anywhere, your drill might be of use outside CQB or in other capacities?
4cea206 2 months ago
hi, i am apart of ROTC and i just got back from my first FTX about two weeks ago. when we were there we shot M16s and M4, our instructors told us to place our non-firing hand just ahead of where the magazine is. i see your shooters are holding it towards the front sight, is that for better stability?
ARomanianKid14 2 months ago
@ARomanianKid14 Better stability, easier to drive and stop the weapon, easier to manipulate your light system, also gives more strength in a weapons retention situation.
Good luck with your ROTC program, let us know if you or your mates need anything else.
Kyle
VikingTactics 2 months ago
@VikingTactics Thanks for the quick response. I will surely remember this when I get back to the range.
Thank you, I will pass it down to them.
ARomanianKid14 2 months ago
@ARomanianKid14 It's becoming a popular technique since it cuts recoil, allows faster "snapping" to targets, everything KL said. I think you should keep in mind though, that with a conventional M4, you might burn your hand on the hot front sight post (wear gloves.)
John234pwns 2 months ago
Only downside is a drill like this could create training scars leaving you putting more rounds on individual targets than necessary (and not moving on to engage other targets with less overall time) as well as shooting for non-kill areas like the pelvis. Even if it puts the guy on the ground, that doesn't mean he is out of the fight.
JAndersonIV 2 months ago
@JAndersonIV The problems we see involve folks double tapping and not driving their wpn b/w tgts.
This is a shooting drill, not a scenario. it teaches folks to quickly drive from tgt to tgt and lead with their eyes. It also teaches them to shoot more than 2 rds into the chest IOT break the double tap or hammer “Training Scar”. It'll also help you to open your field of view & not get sucked into just looking thru ur sights while attempting to acquire a target quickly.
Kyle
VikingTactics 2 months ago
Best recommendation I have would be to use bullseye targets to alleviate the confusion between shooting drills for skill development and tactical scenarios. This will hopefully alleviate any “training scar” issues.
VikingTactics 2 months ago
Kyle
Very impressive and thank you for your service to our country. I was wondering what is your opinion on the new 6.8mm SPC round and some of the new piston driven AR platforms such as the LWRC M6 series and the Barrett REC7. I know the old DI vs Piston argument and 5.56 vs (Insert bigger round) has been argued to hell already but I was wondering if I could get the opinion of a former elite operator such as yourself. Any info you could provide would be greatly appreciated.
PokemonHaloFan 3 months ago
@PokemonHaloFan If I had to choose 5.56 or 6.8 SPC I would pick 5.56.
If I had to chose between 5.56 and 7.62 I would pick 7.62.
6.8 SPC is not proven, and most of the data I have seen is smoke and mirrors. I would take the 7.62 any day of the week.
Piston/Direct, who cares? Does your weapon work? I have no issues with a DI system, have had a few issues with certain Piston Systems...I think the receiver said Made in Germany.
I like POF’s 7.62 light weight Piston rifle.
Kyle
VikingTactics 3 months ago
why are we learning to kill people with maximum efficency?
TheJaaysog 5 months ago
@TheJaaysog Have you ever been assaulted by a serious, motivated criminal who's out of jail for "good behavior"? Don't assume that your experiences represent all available experiences. To do so is ultimately limited in cognitive scope.
8s8lw8d 2 months ago
This drill is designed to teach the student to DRIVE the gun!!...you people need to listen. And until you can do it in under six seconds maybe you should just be quiet.
GunfightersINC 5 months ago
This drill is designed to teach the student to DRIVE THE GUN!!...you people need to listen. And until you can do it in under six seconds maybe you should just be quiet.
GunfightersINC 5 months ago
lmao it sounds more like a fairy tale..FIVE shots on each target in real scenario they would be moving lmao to much time WASTED!!
PharaohII 5 months ago
after reading some of the comments all I have to say is oh my god. This is a fantastic DRILL, there should be less argueing about a freaking pelvis shot. Here is another very simple rule for a gunfight my old 1stSgt used to tell us. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice, and anything worth shooting twice is worth emptying a magazine into. A pelvis shot is taken to break the combatants ability to move. and the added benefit of blood bearing organs. It is a nasty shot that hurts a lot.
AJShott 6 months ago
Kyle, lets make the drill a little more interesting- the Osama Drill, two to the chest one in the left eye fast as you can.
jimmydeanbreakfastsg 6 months ago
I could be wrong, but in a situation like this, wouldnt it make more sense to three shot core each target and then go for the head shots after that?
foughtwolf 6 months ago
why does he hold his gun like that ? does it help ??
jacobninja25 6 months ago
@jacobninja25 Personal preference probably, its always best to just do whatever your comfortable with.
wedvarn 6 months ago
@wedvarn i should try shooting like that i never have and thanks for the reply :)
jacobninja25 6 months ago
What kind of sight was he using?
jkmcdani 7 months ago
SHOOT HIM IN THE DICK!!!!!!
ijackofftoanime 8 months ago
Kyle,
Very nice drill. However, in Germany shooting targets with persons on it are forbidden for civilians. What do you propose as an alternative?
nafetshtor 9 months ago 5
@nafetshtor Guten Tag.
I would use three bullseyes on each target stand to simulate the Gravity boxes on the VTAC Targets. Head, chest, pelvis with a 6 inch bull would make this a good drill.
Kyle
VikingTactics 9 months ago 5
@VikingTactics Good idea, thanks. Tested that yesterday and it is indeed a very good substitude.
Thank you, Kyle!
nafetshtor 8 months ago
@nafetshtor
I would move to a more gun & freedom friendlt country. Happy shooting!
sav308762 7 months ago
@nafetshtor What a stupid law that is... LMAO @ Germany... Can you shoot just a black silouhette in the shape of a human? If not, just put the 3 boxs on a square piece of cardboard and envision what you're doing...
SwitchbackXThunter 6 months ago
@nafetshtor ipsc scheibe nehmen
Warbeast911 5 months ago
Kyle
Thanks for taking the time to always professionally respond to Youtube comments. You're commitment and professionalism is above par.
ohhhlethal 9 months ago
Shooting bricks of c-4 ? C-4+ heat and pressure = boom. A fired round traveling x/Fps + c4 = Boom . Sir
pshups 10 months ago
why do you put one round in the pelvus? why not just shoot a normal mozambique?
Delta8559272 11 months ago
@Delta8559272 We put one round in the pelvis because that is the drill, simply teaching students to drive the weapon. In a confrontation we would pick the available vital area and continue to engage the threat until it is neutralized. If I had a pelvis shot I would definitely take it.
You can shoot this any way you want, just remember, this is a drill not a scenario.
Kyle
VikingTactics 11 months ago 8
@VikingTactics i see but wouldnt a mozambique be faster with mulitple engagements like this exercise? but i know you will be faster and more comfortable with what you train with.
Delta8559272 11 months ago
@Delta8559272 If the guys wearing a vest the shots to the chest will be pointless. The pelvis is an easier target than the head.
ijackofftoanime 8 months ago
@ijackofftoanime i understand that, but a shot to the pelvis will only immobilize the target while he is fully capable to fire back in the 5 minutes it takes him to bleed out. and if there is a potential for body armor take a mans rifle the M1A socom 2.
Delta8559272 8 months ago
@Delta8559272 the immobilization by the pelvis shot will make it easier to make the head shot.
A rifle IS capable of penetrating SOFT body armor, but if the target is wearing a HARD CHEST PLATE in his vest, a chest shot with your M1A socom 2 won't do a damn thing.
ijackofftoanime 8 months ago
@ijackofftoanime that HARD chest plate you are talking about is a ceramic plate made from pressed boron carbide, that is made to shater on impact and if you are running with and M1A why are you using sporter rounds... you use military steel penetrators that run hot. and yes it will stop the first bullet as it should buth if the second shot is within 6 inches of the last one the hard plate will be powder and no resistance.
Delta8559272 8 months ago
@Delta8559272 It depends, that ESAPI plate can withstand a lot more than it's actually rated for. Like a 3" grouping of M2 AP (30-06) plus three rounds of M855 (5.56) and then hit with M80 ball (7.62x51), then on a second shot of M80 there was a partial penetration. In that case, a triple tap with M80 or Mk 319 wouldn't have killed the guy. It very well might have done some nasty blunt force injury, but that's all.
Nater245689 7 months ago
@ijackofftoanime and P.S. most if not all military type 3 vests have provisional plates for the pelvis and groin area thus rendering the shot almost if not completely useless
Delta8559272 8 months ago
@Delta8559272 In that case, a shot to to the chest will be just as useless.
ijackofftoanime 7 months ago
@ijackofftoanime yes but the shot to the head would be the thing to put him down. there is no body armor that protects the head well enough to protect from a .308
Delta8559272 7 months ago
@Delta8559272 The groin protector is soft armor. There are generally four strike plates available, front and rear and both sides. In SAPI form they're rated for M80 ball (7.62x51 NATO) and in E-SAPI form they're rated for M2 AP (30-06/7.62x63mm, steel or tungsten penetrator). The dude in the video is Kyle Lamb, he was in Delta/CAG/whatever they call it now, I'd be willing to assume he knows what he's doing.
Nater245689 7 months ago
@Nater245689 first pertson to know what hes talking about. generally what ive seen with the groin protectors is the hard plate never soft armor. now im not saying he dosent know what hes tallking about im just saying that a typical mozambique will work better because there is no SAPI or E-SAPI plates in helmets or faceshields.
Delta8559272 7 months ago
@Delta8559272 Groin protectors are soft armor in the IBA, MTV and Osprey kits you'd see issued to US and British troops. SAPI and E-SAPI plates only come in front/rear/left side/right side torso sections and nothing else.. The best groin armor out there is Type IIIA. I wouldn't think the military would be too concerned about going beyond Type II as handgun rounds like the .357 SIG and .44 Magnum are not likely to be encountered on the battlefield.
Nater245689 7 months ago
@Nater245689 you have a good point but you and soo many have yet to acknowlege that THERE IS NO BODY ARMOR FOR THR HEAD OR FACE. ergo it is a softer target. the pelvis may be a bigger target but a shot to the head drops them instantly if its not a grazing shot. and again a shot to the pelvis will leave them to blead out, the 5.56 punches a really clean small hole the initial shock of the wound may knock then unconcious but they will get up and fight again.
Delta8559272 7 months ago
@Delta8559272 As I said before, The pelvis is an easier target than the head.
It's better to have a sure hit to the pelvis, after which you can spend all day shooting him in the head now that he's crawling around on the ground with a broken pelvis, rather than missing the guys head leaving him completely unharmed and continuing to shoot at you.
But you seem to be missing the point. The whole point is that the pelvis is a viable target which everyone seems to overlook.
ijackofftoanime 6 months ago
@ijackofftoanime yes but when he is crawling around on the ground he still has his rifle and a working trigger finger...now you have a man with nothing to lose, shooting at you until he runs out of ammo or bleeds out. and yes the pelvis is better than nothing but i am arguing the point that a head shot is a superior shot to take than the pelvis because it is an immediate down instead of waiting 3 minutes for him to bleed out
Delta8559272 6 months ago
@Delta8559272 Brass tax, the pelvis is a large cavity of the body that can house a lot of internal bleeding once vital organs are struck. Multiple wounds in different areas of the body would cause uncontrollable shock because the body has to kick into survival mode on more than one area on the body. The drill is also excellent in teaching that an opponent could have the opportunity of wearing body armor. The shot in the head is for insurance purposes.
pattymcpatterstud1 7 months ago
ive been trained to square up to a target, i see the stance here is different. any reasons. just wondering
sforcesrcg 1 year ago
@sforcesrcg We try to shoot from a fighting stance, the square stance does not allow for quick movement and driving the weapon as quickly. The last issue of Book of the AR-15 had an article that we wrote about the fighting stance.
Thanks
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 year ago
I Read that article. It's really good, very informative. I'm not sure if it's still on sale but everyone should try and read it.
koidog25 1 year ago
@VikingTactics What about facing your plates toward the threat?
turdferguson9725 11 months ago
@turdferguson9725 I prefer to point my weapon at the threat quickly. Have you read the article I wrote about Fighting Stance vs Shooting Stance? I don’t want to rely on the threat’s ability to aim at my plates, and as far as that goes the difference is negligible.
Kyle
VikingTactics 11 months ago
@VikingTactics No, I haven't. Was the article in last years book of the AR? The one I got recently has your article about rollover prone and impact shifts. I have read your book though. I guess I'll just have to learn it in one of your classes. On that note, thanks for bringing classes to AZ, when so many others won't.
And thanks for responding.
turdferguson9725 11 months ago
@turdferguson9725 Yes sir last book of the AR. Had pics of some of the Phoenix guys.
Kyle
VikingTactics 11 months ago
@John234pwns 1 shot to the dome will kill somebody instantly
italiangamer5 1 year ago
Does it make more sense to shoot pelvic first, then head, or vice versa?
John234pwns 1 year ago
@John234pwns I think that makes sense if you are really close in to the threat. The goal of this drill is to get the shooter to abruptly change directions with the weapon several times. Each tactical decision will dictate what will be shot first.
“Anything worth shooting is worth shooting 30 times” -Kyle Lamb
VikingTactics 1 year ago
@Buckbaggums Absolutely not, only with a machine gun. Through all the years of training, auto fire is not needed and no more effective in a CQB scenario than semi auto fire. Of course this is just my opinion....
VikingTactics 1 year ago
@VikingTactics The interesting thing is with a rifle, semi automatic fire can be a lot more effective to keep heads down than automatic.
John234pwns 1 year ago
when you train and become so fast and proficient with semi auto, would you go full auto downrange?
Buckbaggums 1 year ago
@Zulu1380 Most high explosives won't detonate from a bullet impact. They require a supersonic shockwave to initiate the reaction, such as a spark-gap (with or without a booster charge) or lower-level primary charge. You can shoot bricks of C-4 all day and it won't detonate.
silvermediastudio 1 year ago
Great vid, will work this one into the rotation at our shooting club.
silvermediastudio 1 year ago
This guy is an excellent instructor.
SirKnightErrant 1 year ago
Does it matter how big of dip you have in your lip? ;-)
highmark33 1 year ago
@highmark33 the bigger the better. it'll make you a sexual tyranasaur
zgalleg1 1 year ago
@highmark33 Yes. Extra style points for a double horseshoe. Long cut, of course.
silvermediastudio 1 year ago
@Zulu1380 It is actually pretty hard to detonate explosives by shooting them. Most terrorists use things like Symtex and RDX, that don't detonate when hit by gunfire.
jmangle 1 year ago
In the time it takes the shoot the center target, the ones on the sides will hose you. I prefer the IDF version of this drill, which would only work with "targets" that are afraid of being shot at.
DoktorJeep 1 year ago
IDF concepts....
DoktorJeep 1 year ago
Nothing says America like an AR 15. I'm super jellous! I'm saving for my first AR 15 down here in New Zealand at the moment. The problem is it will cost me $5000 just for a basic model and I have to get a special endorsement for my licence if it has any of the typical 'assualt rifle features' hope u guys in the states know how privledged you guys are :)
ginjaninja1988 1 year ago
@ginjaninja1988 so move
DangerousD1985 1 year ago
@DangerousD1985 Im thinking about it. But i dont think the girlfriend would be too keen.....
ginjaninja1988 1 year ago
@ginjaninja1988 Get a new girlfriend! It's pretty easy in the states to find a good girl... Especially with that kiwi accent. The women here are batshit crazy about accents from New Zealand, Australia, South Africa etc
flyhighkev 1 year ago
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ginjaninja1988 1 year ago
@flyhighkev Might be a good idea. New Zealand women can be a bloddy pain in the arse. Plus i just landed a really good sales role in the military arms industry so I might transfer within company to the US in a few years or so... theres so many more opportunities up there :)
ginjaninja1988 1 year ago
@ginjaninja1988 Most of us have it good but dont think for a second their arent retards over here that want to ban us from having them. Not to mention places like california where its increasingly harder every year to own anything that remotely resembles an ar-15. Good luck to ya
Dman40475 1 year ago
Bear in mind that a lot of drills are designed to reinforce skills used in combat, not to emulate combat. The drill is based on an experience, it is not necessarily what exactly occurred. Much as working a sway ball, or slip rope in the boxing ring doesn't exactly emulate a boxing match, these drills reinforces skills that are vital to be successful. Quick initial hits on the target, quick transitions between target ares, quick transitions to additional threats. A good drill.
jenricketenriss 1 year ago
Fuck this, 3 guys engaging me I'm running for cover first, lol.
patio87 1 year ago
I would argue that if these "targets" were bad guys I reckon it would take too long to cycle through all 3 without the risk that at least one of them would gets shots off at you.
AusJackal 1 year ago
@AusJackal This drill was actually put together to replicate the experience one of our instructors had engaging three terrorists wearing suicide vests. Seemed to work okay for him....
VikingTactics 1 year ago 25
@VikingTactics If the bad guys had suicide vests and were that close together! Still think spending so long on each target increases your risk of being shot or in thiis case blown up! And no firearms. Still think that one shot in the kill zone in each and a follow up if they don't go down would be quicker and safer.
AusJackal 1 year ago
@VikingTactics check... and mate.
archon2346 1 year ago
@VikingTactics Seems very similar to the El presidente drill. That drill was intended to evaluate a shooters ability, not combat simulating.
ELITEHAMSTER123 1 year ago
@VikingTactics whoops, someone all ready said that. O//////O
ELITEHAMSTER123 1 year ago
@AusJackal Nothing more amusing than some clown on the internet critiquing a former Operator from the MOST ELITE MILITARY UNIT ON THE PLANET EARTH (with all due respect to the Blades of the S.A.S). Thank You for uploading these videos Kyle they are excellent as is your book.
kimball902 1 year ago
@kimball902 and given you are 30 and I was engaging bad guys professionally BEFORE you were born! I have survived 36 years of hostile ops... Grow up!
AusJackal 1 year ago
@AusJackal You are not the only one who has served Chief. I do not want to debate you, bc no matter who you are, you are not/nor will ever be Kyle Lambs equal, this is an empirical fact. Kyle served in the premier SMU of the Us and in most peoples opinion, the world. Kyle is not a "so called expert" he is maybe THE expert on issues regarding shooting tactics. Your "hostile ops" are nothing compared to what an SMU does. I do not like to degrade others service but you are a grade A sh*tbag.
kimball902 1 year ago 3
@kimball902 I doubt that about 99% of the rest of the world would agree with you about "premier SMU". You still need to grow up. Tell you what do. Try this drill with people armed with fx rounds (that shoot back) I will guarantee you by the time the single shooter moves to the second target he'll me DEAD, cos the 2nd or 3rd bad guy will have engaged. So you called me a clown and shit bag because I have an opinion and my EXPERIENCE contradicts this video... real mature.
AusJackal 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AusJackal Nothing more amusing than some clown on the internet critiquing a former Operator from the MOST ELITE MILITARY UNIT ON THE PLANET EARTH (with all due respect to the Blades of the S.A.S). Thank You for uploading these videos Kyle they are excellent as is your book.
kimball902 1 year ago
@AusJackal @AusJackal Nothing more amusing than some clown on the internet critiquing a former Operator from the MOST ELITE MILITARY UNIT ON THE PLANET EARTH (with all due respect to the Blades of the S.A.S). Thank You for uploading these videos Kyle they are excellent as is your book.
kimball902 1 year ago
@kimball902 the fact that people like you believe everything you see on the net as being "gospel" is the reason so many people are killed trying to emulate these so called experts. I am not about the debate my back ground but I can assure you I do know what I'm talking about. If the person who experienced this scenario achieved his engagement unharmed then there would have a large element of luck.
AusJackal 1 year ago
Comment removed
archon2346 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AusJackal check... and mate.
archon2346 1 year ago
@AusJackal
remaining static while engaging a threat is bad ju-ju.
Shoot and move.
101327 1 year ago
@AusJackal
in the "heat" iv seen even the most determined hostage takers freeze...fine by me, they all died the same...
CPLBSS88 1 year ago
@AusJackal some drills are designed to help with your ability to manipulate a weapon or drive the gun, obviously your not going to run into too many situations where three men of exact size stand in a perfect line waiting to be shot, but doing a drill like this teaches you to drive the gun and make nice accurate shots under time/stress constraints.by your reasoning no one should shoot a rifle slow fire qual because the "enemy" wont stand still while you shoot at him from 300yd's.
hermanpotato 1 year ago
whats the time minute duration on the dvds?
also will the street fighting dvd come out soon?
thanks
IMnotSAS 1 year ago
Why not go from left to right, or right to left, instead of what you do?
Quartz91 1 year ago
@Quartz91 We want the shooter to have to shoot both directions during the same drill. This keeps it equal to both sides.
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 year ago
Do you recomend shooting with your dominant eye or your dominant hand?
notanotch1107 1 year ago
@notanotch1107 Good question. I have seen it both ways. If it is a new student I would probably make them shoot from the dominant eye side. I am heavily left eye dominant but continuously work to be able to use my right eye. There are plenty of tricks to making the eyes see something differently.
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 year ago
Damn, I want to try this now.
norcofreerider604 1 year ago
I like the rules....forces the shooter to me mindful. Good training.
LaRueDeeko 1 year ago
love the backup gun holster
DT5236 1 year ago
Any news on the Rifle dvd's? Can I pre-order?
VTAC coming to the West Coast anytime soon? :)
survivalhub 1 year ago
@survivalhub DVD’s should be out in two weeks. They will be on the Viking Tactics web site then.
I think the first one will be out and the 2nd will follow shortly.
Would love to get back out west, just let us know if you would like to schedule. We are booking July 2011 right now.
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 year ago
Kyle I enjoyed the short conversation we had today at the NRA convention. I was the tall black guy from Winston-Salem. Thanks for the insight an I really look forward to taking one of your carbine classes. stay safe!
datzitteezy 1 year ago
@datzitteezy Great talking with you as well. Looking forward to seeing you in a class.
Let me know if you need anything.
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 year ago
get down with your bad self
tacticoolness 1 year ago
Kyle, whats the scoop on the rifle DVD's?
schreier72 1 year ago
@schreier72 They are coming soon, just waiting on the production now. Should be in the next couple weeks.
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 year ago
Kyle, once again, nice drill for driving the gun.
Do you ever add discrimination, to your drills?
liveblade 1 year ago
@liveblade
Absolutely, whenever you have a chance, throw in the discrimination, it will change the whole perspective of the tactical shooter.
Kyle
VikingTactics 1 year ago
Is this this real life training, or just a transition drill? Meaning, would you really place rounds in those areas of the body in that sequence in a threat situation?
It makes me cringe to think about taking a 5.56 round to the pelvis.
tdo79 2 years ago
If someone was wearing hard armor designed to stop high velocity rifle projectiles, or they were continuing to close the distance w/ you, the pelvis & hard drive would be great places to bust. A Lieutenant shot one of the NCO's in my Battalion in Korea through the pelvis & it shut him down quick. It was supposed to be a blank fire exercise, but the douche had brought a live mag of 5.56 tracers IIRC & had them in his LBV. Dude survived, but was seriously ruined for life. LT went bye-bye after.
LRRPF52 2 years ago
@LRRPF52 Now that's an officer you want leading you into harms way. Geez!!
tdo79 2 years ago
@tdo79: All three target areas on the body are effective.
Different situations require different applications of fire, just want to get guys thinking.
Kyle
VikingTactics 2 years ago
Nice video. Been looking forward to the DVDs. I miss Kyle shooting targets at the speed of light.
SuperRobot7 2 years ago
I hear ya, but this was still pretty damn quick.
tdo79 2 years ago
The start of the video says we can buy a DVD of drills on your website. I didn't see it on there. Is it not for sale yet?
ProfVonW 2 years ago
@ProfVonW
We have them coming soon. Should be on the web site in the next few weeks, DVD 1 followed shortly by DVD 2.
Kyle
VikingTactics 2 years ago
By far some of the most proffesional videos on the internet. Thanks again gentlemen.
jjudson5 2 years ago
Nice video Kyle, going to purchase some of your targets and give it a try.
SPENCERTACTICALcom 2 years ago
looks like alot of fun!
something similar on my channel
north carolina boys exhibiting the second amendment!
jaybeesworld 2 years ago
Nice drill 5/5
SwerVQE 2 years ago
Awesome!!
neillrick 2 years ago
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first
MaceUK71 2 years ago