Tony Cecchine's American Catch Wrestling: double wrist lock as "show" hold + counters

[Memyself10101]

i use to put the knee/leg over the opponents head to finish the hold. works very good. is there any cause why you don´t do this in catch?is it enough to twist the wrist?

[cecchinecatch]

@Memyself10101 Putting the leg over the head is fine, but it isn't necessary. It's part of a potential chain of moves. Ordinarily, though, the twist, coupled with moving your chest over the trapped shoulder, will enable you to get the submission without having to step over the head -- which can create space. Nothing wrong with doing it, though. However, since you don't have to move the shoulder very far or lift the opponent much, it's often superfluous.

[pocketfullofstones]

I'm curious. Lou Thesz said Billy Robinson was a hooker as well as Tony. Yet Robinson does his double wrist lock very differently. I wonder why this was.

[cecchinecatch]

@pocketfullofstones Billy is still alive, so maybe someone should ask him. Thing is, just because you know hooks doesn't mean you're showing them. Robinson trained pro wrestlers in Japan, after all, so it makes sense he'd train them in working holds -- and that we'd therefore see working holds from his students or people who look at his instructional material. But who knows? All we have to go on is what he's shown. Thesz also worked with Robinson, so factor that into the equation, too.

[pocketfullofstones]

@cecchinecatch I see. Although why wouldn't Robinson teach Sakuraba his student how to do the real double wristlock. Sakuraba does that up the back thing. Robinson learnt in England. Maybe they had a different way of doing things?

[cecchinecatch]

@pocketfullofstones You got me. Sakuraba was also a former pro wrestler, and the fact of the matter is, these working moves can still be used as legit submission holds. Could be that both Robinson and Gotch learned this variation and stuck with it. Sakuraba used it almost like a hammer lock against one of the Gracies, if I'm remembering correctly.

[Peregrinusexpectavi]

Absolutely right on the wristlock, as on so many things. My jujitsu based partner pulled my arm in, and he found himself in the head scissor, tapping like a typewriter. Forgive me if I don't show him how to perfect the DWL, it's my bread-and-butter (along with the Gotch Toe Hold) and I want to keep my advantage as long as possible! :-)

[wrekaracademy]

Good job Tony. It's about time someone showed the difference between protecting your "opponent" and actual dangerous holds.

[jukido987]

I Dont give a shit what anybody says, Tony knows what he's talking about & Doing!

[cecchinecatch]

@jukido987 The people who've said Tony doesn't know what he's talking about tend not to know what they are talking about. Either that, or they are peddling working holds -- which, while they might get you submissions, are not hooks, which are far more efficient, and are much more difficult to counter.

[jukido987]

@cecchinecatch I Agree 100%. Most people's grasp of "Catch" is superficial but Tony's techniques always involve in depth explanations that make sense.