Just so u know Its a dial indicator, and u always need to check to is everything till its square!! When you assemble everything there may be shavings oil etc between machined surfaces, a film of oil can be .001" then you may have shavings etc stuck to the oil which can continue to through everything out of alignment. But you won't know till you run a dial on the vise. It just depends on what you are building. Good luck. Ps millwright by trade
@BEERSHAREver01 I've had someone else correct that, but when I Google "test indicator", this device is what I see, and even the definition in dictionary and wikipedia speak of a test indicator having a lever as opposed to a standard dial indicator and that they read higher accuracy. What gives?
You should always "ALWAYS" do a check of accuracy on the vice straightness before machining "ALWAYS" I am a 25 yr machinist and this is so important. Square is Square!!!
Always a good feeling seeing someone create a "Down & Dirty" procedure hooking up their machine vise on the quick! Forget these knuckle heads commenting with thumbs down! Keep up the good work. SBB
@ems7218....Dude, what do you mean idiots? If you would look at the bottom of the vise, you would see it is already machined to be keyed. Before you start tossing out name calling, maybe you should learn a little more about machining and it's equipment. I was just giving a little constructive criticism and not out to bust someones balls. And if one is going to align a vise to a table in the manner shown, drop a 5/8" bar down into the slot of the table and clamp the vice to it. You're now aligned
@vincent7520 Because the key slots are square to the machine (or they should be) and now when he puts the vice on the table it sits snug into the keyways and is square straight away
Cool trick. It's amazing how simple tricks can save us time and money. I have decided to build my own lathe, not because of lack of money, but I will learn from each part I build. I just got a big peice of structural steel from school that I will use as the base. It is 10" x 47" and weighs about 60 or 70 lbs. I just need a good motor and buy the bearings I need, but I have enough scrap to build it.
Roadracenut.....nice job of what you did, but totally unnecessary. If you look to the left and right of the center hole in the base, there is already keyway slots milled into the vise from the factory. If you have a Kurt Vise, you can go to Kurt's website and purchase two hardened keys that bolt right on. Or you can make the keys yourself.
@remiew45 Ditto, to much work for something that's already been thought of and is incorporate in the vise already. I guess if it makes him happy than good deal!
vids like this ore are like the rain in the soil it makes to go out all the worms under XD haha only soil worms are useful and the ones here are self-made-smartasses-idiots XD hahaha
al our vices comes equipped with such a heel already from the factory, but when it´s an accurate job(tollmaking) we always check with an indicator aswell, we learned the hard way, the t-slots get worned down. but as u state: great tip for the amateur.
Didn't you know that everyone's an expert on YouTube? lol. It's not like you're working from a high precision engineering workshop. Anyone watching this looking for tips sure as shit ain't either, so what do they expect...perfection? If the tip worked for you and helped someone else, that's all that matters. Thanks. :)
@biguglycaprice Yeah, some twisted minds in higher govt decided to impose a "service related economy", and to discourage the local school boards from training the students to learn anything which is actually fun and useful, . . .
An alternative could be to drill and ream a row of, say, four holes in the underside of the vice once you have it squared up like that. Then drill and ream a series of similar holes for dowels along your table. That would give you instant vice positioning with known positions for side stops. Then, if you had another vice or fixtures you could do repeat cuts. This could be handy if you need to machine something a second time, or for making several parts. Yeap, I work in a factory machine shop
actually, you alredy had these. those 2 slots next to the holes that bolt the vice to the table should have keys bolted into them for this exact purpose.
Wow, such commentary over something so simple. WHY would you want to set it up to 0.0001 if you don't have a climate controlled room to work in. Geez, just look at what he has to work with. It's not a modern preloaded ball screw machining centre just a shop floor milling machine. PERFECT for what he obviously wants to use to make things.
Horses for courses boys and girls. It's a great little time saver and one I use myself. Keep up the videos. I like 'em.
@newraysUtube I've been toolmaking for 47 years, and the last time any part actually had a tolerance of plus or minus .0001" was in 1966. I was making punches to cut paper and I certainly wasn't using a mill.
@winterka100 - oh, now, now; a lot of our internal components we used in petroleum valving manufacture were into the ten-thousandths...me thinks you fudge a bit, here. Might want to look into those companies around OKC that still make American-machined components, before you speak too loudly. Until the name-brand shock absorber company I worked for in the 90's moved to Mexico, we had some parts into the ten-millionths, on print and spec'd....mostly micro-hyd metering holes.
@MountainDweller67 I realise that what you say is true, though the tolerances that you mention are usually restricted to valving , pistons fuel injection pumps etc.I was referring to general machining and toolmaking (mainly plastic moulds and press tools). The main theme of my previous comment was directed at the guy who insists that mill vices should be set up within .0001"Over the years, he must have wasted hundreds of hours worth of his employer's money with his fetish.
I don't understand why you cut a new slot, they're already in the base, even drilled and tapped, on the center line. my 8" swivel vice even came with the dowels to place in them. there's another thing, it works just as well with a couple of dowel pins if you drill and ream holes, and a lot less work than doing it this way.
You don't even need to use a five eight piece of key-steel. If you use only three eight and pull the vice back towards yourself while clamping it down, it will still be rough-e-nuff for most stuff. And it's easier to pull off the table after you've finished. As long as the tee slot has clean edges/faces, it's fine.
After reading most of the comments this simple video has generated, I came to realize what pedantic pains in the ass we machinists, toolmakers etc. are. I guess it's a case of "precisionitis" Arguing over the correct name of a slot for f***'s sake. Of course, the .0001" guy is the winner of the "Ass pain" award. This vice alignment project has ended being more complex than the Moon landing.All good fun!
Im a machinist I also worked for Mitsui seiki installing,repairing, 5axis machines so they can machine to accuracy of 2microns . If this guy is happy about this let him enjoy his accomplishment . Some of us have unbelievable tolerance but let's not crack shots at the guy say good job post some more videos we like watching.
I am familiar with this tip, however I couldn't figure out how to hold the vice in place. As often the case the solution is amazingly simple. I plan on doing this on my own machine, I will probably buy some tool steel for the job as it's the only thing I can get that dimentionally accurate. I can't get imperial sized aluminium here and I have 5/8" slots. Thanks for the video it has made a difference.
What's funny is many milling machines only really have a repeatable accuracy of .001 due to problems with gibs, ball screws, casting imperfections etc. So, aiming for .0001 during alignment isn't going to do you any good. Great job with this rapid alignment tool! Looks good to this amateur machinist!
@manofstl2000 , Real machinists don't call themselves machinists, others do. There's no reason to post a hateful comment on this video. Most of the work shops see is +/- .005 because of cost. Sure, we can all work out to four or even six with the right equipment and skill, but if his vice is indicated within half that's good enough for 90% of the work in the world. roadracenut, great video and usefull tip for many practical applications.
@roadracenut One more thing, Don't listen to "real" machinists, most of them are unreliable employees that call themselves journeymen when you hire them but when it's time to stop talking and start making chips they suddenly don't know anything. If you want to know if a guy is a journeymen or master machinist, ask to see his tools...if he doesn't have any or if his box or tools aren't clean, he's full of shit and isn't a machinist I'd hire. Stay safe and keep learning.
I have worked on molds built in Brazil, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, France, Vietnam and India. Converting inch/mm is like breathing to me. Here in the states we have literaly millions of machines, mills, lathes, surface grinders etc.., that are calibrated in inch increments, that are not ready for the scrap yard. As new machines,Digital readouts, CNC come in we will be better able to make the switch. It's coming so relax and remember 0.03937.
Unless you have a bride port, running some cat collets, with balls screws in all axis, hand lapped table and vise and stuffed it in a temperature and humidity controlled room YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE MAKING PARTS TO 1 TEN THOUSANDTHS OF AN INCH!... the typical manual milling machine is more then capable to repeat and produce within .002 of an inch. these morons chiming in talking about .0001 acc, need to go watch surface grinder videos.
to the auth of the video, awesome tip, nice video!
@ToxicZim Not even close. I have never needed to machine anything with that kind of accuracy. I figured I was doing good to even have a Brown & Sharp indicator, and it only reads to .0005. I shoot for .001. Not sure if you heard me mention it on the video, but I am an amateur and I just use this machine for fun. Hitting .0001 sounds like work to me.
@roadracenut with the right machine, coming within even .0002" is not outside the realm of possibilities. I do, however, have a slight problem with you calling it a 'keyway' when its really a slot or groove. A 'keyway' usually pertains to cuts made along the length of an ID or OD using a broach. just saying.
@zapwatt actually the T-slots are what are cut into the table. there is no undercut or "T" in the slot that he milled. and I'm a toolmaker, I also know what I am talking about.
@zapwatt nobody is disputing that. of course those are T-slots. he isnt even talking about the slots on the table, but the slot he milled on his vise.
@boomba3 This idea of metric vs imperial is silliness. We're already there but we're hung up on words. Change your mind & mouth to use the words "fractional" & "decimal" instead, because that matters more. You can be metric and use fractions or you can still be imperial and use decimals which *drumroll* we do! It's simple; The next time you need to do something 10-1/4", just say 10.25" instead. Beyond that if you cannot multiply twelve then numbers are simply out of your league.
I'm sure that you understand that ideally the metric system is better (simpler).Having said that, Australia started converting to metric 35 years ago. Being a toolmaker, it was a nightmare.Half the drawings were metric,the rest, inches.I now happily use both,my machines are still in inches, but it's no big deal.Strangely, machinists and engineering type people never use centimetres (only millimetres) "outsiders"? only use centimetres.I think it will take another 20 years to get it smoothed out.
@winterka100 I use both systems with equal ease and am always amused when I quote a dimension in decimetres. Screws up our metric only guys royally. Even after 35 years of Metric, try walking into a meat shop in Oz or Canada and ask the young person behind the counter for a quarter kilo of sliced meat of some sort. That'll earn you a blank stare. Metricists, bear in mind that we machined in thousandths in Imperial. It was no great challenge.
I like both the mm and Inches. I love math, decimals and fractions are easy. Metric is easy and i like to use it with bearings and shafts stuff like that. But i love fractions to decimals so i will never convert fully to metric.
A trick I discovered myself is to put ground dowle pins (2) in your tee slots in your table. They fit snugly, space them apart accordingly. This give you to contact points to which you can push a work piece up against thus getting it square in an instant. Then Clamp it to the table. It will usually be within .001-003 thousands over the whole piece length. you can then tap it in closer if you need to., I use dowel pins all the time.
You will notice that the manufacturer put the locating slots in line with the mounting holes so you can use all your t slots to mount your vise. If you don't want to make stepped keys you could cut the .625 slot centered on the original slot and use a key that is short enough to fit between the mounting bolts. Also it is a good practice to use some scrap aluminum sheet to place under your step blocks when you are using strap clamps. Saves some wear and tear on the table. Nice work though!
If you look at the center of the vise, you will see a slot that is already prepared for the key way. In addition, you can purchase a pre made key for the appropriate vise slot/t-slot combination. As for the stresses there are none associated with this setup. Great job on the out of the box thinking. Keep it up and forget what everyone else thinks.
@rufusthecat289 Wow. Who knew? Obviously not me! Looks like they are $30 each. I'll have to decide if it's worth my time to buy two for the other axis or do the same again. I haven't had time to even look at the Bridgeport for months. Too busy with home improvement projects and young kids. Thanks for the comment.
@applejak2000 You effectively reduce the strength an rigidity of the vice. Your ability to hold that back jaw square while tightening the vice is reduced... What is so much trouble about making stepped keys if you've got a milling machine?
@rocketman697 how would milling a 5/8 slot on the bottom, as he has done, reduce "your ability to hold that back jaw square while tightening the vice..." ? It has absolutely nothing to do with that. Secondly I seriously doubt that milling a 5/8 slot "effectively reduces the strength an rigidity of the vice. " -- appreciably, at any rate. Go ahead mill very thin stepped keys if you want. What a lunkhead! This trick has been used successfully many many times over the years.
@applejak2000 Well I won't turn this into a pissing contest, or resort to childish namecalling... I will only say that this is not how I would treat my vice.
@rocketman697 If the highest stress in the vise was at the bottom of the vise or it was exposed to a high bending stress, I would be concerned. As to the stepped key, it isn't a ton more work, the truth is since they were so shallow and wider, it didn't even register that that is what they are there for. You all have to understand, I am a total hack, and don't pretend to be a machinist. I have learned a ton from all of your comments and wish I had as much machining knowledge as you all do.
It seems to me you could mill a square bar about 10" long and place accurately centered extra long 5/8 dowel pins at each end. Clamp the bar in the vice with the pins extending down into the t-slot and tighten the vice body down to the table once you've got everything set. Since the pins are centered on the bar (exactly parallel to the longitudal axis of the bar) they are thus parallel to the fixed jaw once the bar is clamped - they thus will bring the fixed jaw into alignment with the t-slot.
i got another faster trick to get a vise withing 0.010 every time depending on how worn out your vise is!
my trick involves 2- 5/8 solid dowels (not pull dowels)
all you do is slip the dowels into the clamp slots of the vise and push the vise forward, then carefully remove the dowels, then place your clamping on loosely, pop your indicator in then tap it a bit 1 way or the other and tighten down! no need to make new slots or anything of that nature!
Very nice. Now, of course, if this level of accuracy is enough for you then you could have just placed the vice on the table and a ground rod in the tool holder and cranked the table back and forth with the vice jaw up against the ground rod. But still, this is a quick way to just attach the vice and clamp it down. I will say I'm not keen on 'cleaning up' the slots on the table since depending on the state of your gibs you run the risk of seriously maiming the table once and for all time.
@jimbrady1776 Thanks. Have you tried this and indicated it? The trick in the video gives me less than .001" accuracy. As for milling the T-slots, my gibbs are in great shape and VERY little metal was removed.
@roadracenut Nope. Although you can accomplish the same thing by clamping a bar into the vise jaws with pins pointing downward to hit the T slot I prefer to use a pivot pin in one vise ear. Yes it takes more time but I'd rather take the time to be more accurate. To each his own.
So basically all you did was square up that aluminum so you can have your vice square upside down, then milled the keyslot, and then drilled/tapped that 5/8 bar to your vice so it would fit into your T slots so its square every time. Nice. While its good practice they make us indicate the vises every time we go too use the mills in our class.
@OnionChang There's nothing hard about it, just time consuming and unnecessary for the kind of accuracy I need. I have far too many other priorities to spend my time indicating my vise every time.
Hey guys, just wondering, I starting training for Machining (CNC etc.) and I was wondering what you guys make so I can determine an average of what I'm getting into.
That really varies a lot depending on what part of the country you live in. Nobody likes to talk about pay but since I'm retired, I don't care anymore. I have seen people start at 10 to 12 bucks an hour or more depending on where you are and go up to 30 or more an hour. Good luck.
As you learn (as I did) you will come up with many little time saving tricks that will make your life SOOO much easier. If you have a workpiece that is tricky to position and/or clamp, take the time to make a fixture or jig. Doesn't have to be fancy or perfect, but as time goes on, you'll be glad you did. I was milling slots in steel tube, and each peice had to be custom setup. I made a fixture, and now each time I need it, I smile. Got that right here!
Yeah, nice work You make!!! But that "device" for vice is good, also that "device" is maked long time ago. It use for indexable heads and rotary tables etc drilling/milling equipment too.
Dude- put (2) 5/8 dowel pins in the key ways, flip the vise and grab the pins with the vise. mount your sacrificial bar (that's slightly proud of .625), Mill the bar to .6245/.6249 end to end. and that's how a pro does it. quick and accurate, and on to the business of business.
I find that pins are more accurate than keys at positioning anything on a jig,fixture or machine table. once you have the vice (or fixture) where you want it and have it aligned to the mill just drill and ream a pair of 1/4" holes for dowel pins. You can also set the vise at 45 or 30 or any position at all on the table and pin it in as many places as you want.
Just so u know Its a dial indicator, and u always need to check to is everything till its square!! When you assemble everything there may be shavings oil etc between machined surfaces, a film of oil can be .001" then you may have shavings etc stuck to the oil which can continue to through everything out of alignment. But you won't know till you run a dial on the vise. It just depends on what you are building. Good luck. Ps millwright by trade
BEERSHAREver01 7 hours ago
@BEERSHAREver01 I've had someone else correct that, but when I Google "test indicator", this device is what I see, and even the definition in dictionary and wikipedia speak of a test indicator having a lever as opposed to a standard dial indicator and that they read higher accuracy. What gives?
roadracenut 5 hours ago
You should always "ALWAYS" do a check of accuracy on the vice straightness before machining "ALWAYS" I am a 25 yr machinist and this is so important. Square is Square!!!
manadeau69 2 days ago
ha ha ha
king12qwaszx12 2 days ago
And where is the Trick?????
FunkJunker 3 days ago
OMG! But what if someone turns your vice! :O It wont work then!!!!!!!!
TheDog2208 3 days ago
Well done.
Always a good feeling seeing someone create a "Down & Dirty" procedure hooking up their machine vise on the quick! Forget these knuckle heads commenting with thumbs down! Keep up the good work. SBB
SteelBustingBiker 5 days ago
КАК ЖЕ ВЫ ЛЮБИТЕ ПОПИЗДЕТЬ!
ktyjxrf004 5 days ago
Pointless, shouldn't take you more than 3 or 4 trips back and forth across the vice to get it in.
Polybun 1 week ago
@ems7218....Dude, what do you mean idiots? If you would look at the bottom of the vise, you would see it is already machined to be keyed. Before you start tossing out name calling, maybe you should learn a little more about machining and it's equipment. I was just giving a little constructive criticism and not out to bust someones balls. And if one is going to align a vise to a table in the manner shown, drop a 5/8" bar down into the slot of the table and clamp the vice to it. You're now aligned
remiew45 2 weeks ago
Bridgeport vises come keyed for the X and the Y axis'...
LongIslandEddie 2 weeks ago
A I stupid ???…
I didn't understand a thing of how this vice is more easily aligned now !!!!…
vincent7520 2 weeks ago
@vincent7520 Because the key slots are square to the machine (or they should be) and now when he puts the vice on the table it sits snug into the keyways and is square straight away
GeneralG1810 4 days ago
@GeneralG1810 Oh !… OK. Got it !…
Simple enough (must have been dumb when I watched …)
Thank you !
vincent7520 4 days ago
@vincent7520 No prob I doubt your the only 1 who didnt know
GeneralG1810 3 days ago
DUDE There is already holes taped for 2 small rods inside the mounting holes all you have to do get a piece of stock drill and counterbore it
TheBrendan1953 2 weeks ago
Hey dude thanks. Ignore the idiots. Its a time saver and I appreciate it.
ems7218 2 weeks ago
thanks for the tip
sparky812zzz 3 weeks ago
Cool trick. It's amazing how simple tricks can save us time and money. I have decided to build my own lathe, not because of lack of money, but I will learn from each part I build. I just got a big peice of structural steel from school that I will use as the base. It is 10" x 47" and weighs about 60 or 70 lbs. I just need a good motor and buy the bearings I need, but I have enough scrap to build it.
megaohmz 3 weeks ago 2
Nice tip, thanks for that.
Should point out though that it's obviously only as accurate as the initial lining up of the Alloy bar, so make sure that's spot-on.
MsBecwarr 3 weeks ago
Your looking right at the T-slot block holders by the bolt down holes,,,,what happened to those?
tomy4tries 3 weeks ago 3
Roadracenut.....nice job of what you did, but totally unnecessary. If you look to the left and right of the center hole in the base, there is already keyway slots milled into the vise from the factory. If you have a Kurt Vise, you can go to Kurt's website and purchase two hardened keys that bolt right on. Or you can make the keys yourself.
remiew45 3 weeks ago 11
@remiew45 Check out my video response to this video.
roadracenut 2 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
@remiew45 Ditto, to much work for something that's already been thought of and is incorporate in the vise already. I guess if it makes him happy than good deal!
aholesmith 5 days ago
umm how am I supposed to make space shuttle parts using this!! /sarcasm
ydna2 3 weeks ago
vids like this ore are like the rain in the soil it makes to go out all the worms under XD haha only soil worms are useful and the ones here are self-made-smartasses-idiots XD hahaha
youutubestinks 3 weeks ago
Wheres the trick?
iannah2147 3 weeks ago
Heres a tip, never clock up with a jacobs chuck , using collets!
fr61d 3 weeks ago
al our vices comes equipped with such a heel already from the factory, but when it´s an accurate job(tollmaking) we always check with an indicator aswell, we learned the hard way, the t-slots get worned down. but as u state: great tip for the amateur.
NORDBANKENSUGER 3 weeks ago
What would it cost for a working used mill like this one?
This is used like a hand crank cnc right?
Dexxxter7780 3 weeks ago
Didn't you know that everyone's an expert on YouTube? lol. It's not like you're working from a high precision engineering workshop. Anyone watching this looking for tips sure as shit ain't either, so what do they expect...perfection? If the tip worked for you and helped someone else, that's all that matters. Thanks. :)
danboynz 3 weeks ago
its even more fun trying to indicate when your just in a highschool class and the tooling is damaged most of the time... NOT lol
ionmanpaintball 3 weeks ago
@ionmanpaintball You're lucky to have a high school shop class. When I was in high school they no longer offered the course.
biguglycaprice 3 weeks ago
@biguglycaprice Yeah, some twisted minds in higher govt decided to impose a "service related economy", and to discourage the local school boards from training the students to learn anything which is actually fun and useful, . . .
phillipgaley 3 weeks ago
Awesome, We have a mill at work and a couple vises that need this so bad. I hate trying to square up, this really helps a lot.
michaelsteinbach 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
An alternative could be to drill and ream a row of, say, four holes in the underside of the vice once you have it squared up like that. Then drill and ream a series of similar holes for dowels along your table. That would give you instant vice positioning with known positions for side stops. Then, if you had another vice or fixtures you could do repeat cuts. This could be handy if you need to machine something a second time, or for making several parts. Yeap, I work in a factory machine shop
wordreet 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
wordreet 3 weeks ago
Dude,....good clip....informative...and from another amature, appreciated. Ignore the negatives...
CorvairFlier 4 weeks ago
drill press
OMBIC 4 weeks ago
please buy a tripod. I'm seasick.
watzupdawg 4 weeks ago
Can you explain this again in metric?
syalcin123 1 month ago
must see videos are seldom any good.
86Ivar 1 month ago
actually, you alredy had these. those 2 slots next to the holes that bolt the vice to the table should have keys bolted into them for this exact purpose.
502deth 1 month ago
It's called a tenente, locates your vice to square to the table... easy!!
TheGeorg33 1 month ago
Thanks for sharing - very interesting - I know what Im doing tomorrow.
teasemeagain 1 month ago
ебло, кто же металическую стружку руками сметает, пускай даже алюминиевую
Revived108 1 month ago
poor vice
Garretthierisser 1 month ago
Odd thing is, the vise already has the key way slot in it.
aztaig 1 month ago
Wow, such commentary over something so simple. WHY would you want to set it up to 0.0001 if you don't have a climate controlled room to work in. Geez, just look at what he has to work with. It's not a modern preloaded ball screw machining centre just a shop floor milling machine. PERFECT for what he obviously wants to use to make things.
Horses for courses boys and girls. It's a great little time saver and one I use myself. Keep up the videos. I like 'em.
baccus61 1 month ago
stupid idea and it's called a dial indicator, not a test indicator.
ebayisajoke 1 month ago
@ebayisajoke It actually is a test indicator. They have dials.
Estevan4882 1 month ago
@ebayisajoke They are actually called "dial test indicators"
jordffffff1 1 month ago
.0001 is for grinding, lapping, honeing, If you're holding a one thou. tolarance on a milling machine, you're doing good.
TheGeezerbiker 1 month ago
@TheGeezerbiker
Yeah, no shit.
cosmic49 1 month ago
Did the Test Indicator died?
troglodyte3344 1 month ago
Just use the indicator - that way you know you are right.
AMilitantAgnostic 1 month ago
1/2 a Thou is fine for most things - I only had a handful of parts where I needed to do better.
newraysUtube 1 month ago
@newraysUtube I've been toolmaking for 47 years, and the last time any part actually had a tolerance of plus or minus .0001" was in 1966. I was making punches to cut paper and I certainly wasn't using a mill.
winterka100 1 month ago
@winterka100 - oh, now, now; a lot of our internal components we used in petroleum valving manufacture were into the ten-thousandths...me thinks you fudge a bit, here. Might want to look into those companies around OKC that still make American-machined components, before you speak too loudly. Until the name-brand shock absorber company I worked for in the 90's moved to Mexico, we had some parts into the ten-millionths, on print and spec'd....mostly micro-hyd metering holes.
MountainDweller67 1 month ago
@MountainDweller67 I realise that what you say is true, though the tolerances that you mention are usually restricted to valving , pistons fuel injection pumps etc.I was referring to general machining and toolmaking (mainly plastic moulds and press tools). The main theme of my previous comment was directed at the guy who insists that mill vices should be set up within .0001"Over the years, he must have wasted hundreds of hours worth of his employer's money with his fetish.
winterka100 1 month ago
@MountainDweller67 What a dude does in his garage shop and industrial production of high precision gear... Not really comparable.
Serostern 1 month ago
Comment removed
manofstl2000 1 month ago
@manofstl2000 Hmmmm....It could be that I was joking..don't you think?
winterka100 1 month ago
I don't understand why you cut a new slot, they're already in the base, even drilled and tapped, on the center line. my 8" swivel vice even came with the dowels to place in them. there's another thing, it works just as well with a couple of dowel pins if you drill and ream holes, and a lot less work than doing it this way.
arfamortis1 1 month ago
You don't even need to use a five eight piece of key-steel. If you use only three eight and pull the vice back towards yourself while clamping it down, it will still be rough-e-nuff for most stuff. And it's easier to pull off the table after you've finished. As long as the tee slot has clean edges/faces, it's fine.
lordchickenhawk 1 month ago
Nice tip there, i sure hope you check it every time though. you cant assume it's perfect everytime.
you assume and then you look like a dodgey machinist when it's wrong :)
isenbert 1 month ago 2
Simple, easy to do, accurate.
That is the way to go!
Mesdriver 1 month ago
After reading most of the comments this simple video has generated, I came to realize what pedantic pains in the ass we machinists, toolmakers etc. are. I guess it's a case of "precisionitis" Arguing over the correct name of a slot for f***'s sake. Of course, the .0001" guy is the winner of the "Ass pain" award. This vice alignment project has ended being more complex than the Moon landing.All good fun!
winterka100 1 month ago 38
@winterka100 I have enjoyed watching the comments this video had produced, but this one is my favorite!
roadracenut 1 month ago 7
@winterka100
Forget it, Jake, it's Youtube.
:)
wackywankavator 2 weeks ago
@wackywankavator Like I said, it's all good fun!
winterka100 2 weeks ago
Oooooh, shakey-cam.
HenrikOlsen 1 month ago
@HenrikOlsen I know, it's a terrible video, sorry about that. See my video response to this, it's much better.
roadracenut 1 month ago
Recheck it when you change the jaws. 100 to 1 you will have to make new slot.
Tubepkp 1 month ago
cool stuff.
odmcarp 1 month ago
@manofstl2000 poser
greatdestroyer1 1 month ago
@manofstl2000 I invented machining.
speedy02 1 month ago
Hey guys - check this out: google:
lathes jr bentley
third picture down - the tiny Taig that fits in your hand. check the whole site out
Now check this out - go to modelengines info; his main site
a broadcast engineer - not a machinist. This guy made a tiny t cutter out of a drill bit in 4 minutes.
I work with lots of machinists here in DC... I'd put that guy up against most of them.
Ya ought to see the tiny radial saws he made - really check out his site.
Amazing...
ajawam 1 month ago
it's kinda cool if you need to do a quick part where accuracy isn't too important.
willardSpirit 1 month ago
Alumin-i-um.... fucking retarded american pronunciations.
guitargenius1234 1 month ago
@guitargenius1234 Try giving a little respect to the British chemist, Humphry Davy, who isolated the metal form and named it aluminum.
Knightmixer 1 month ago
@manofstl2000 And you are hitting that accuracy with a Bridgeport J head and a Kurt vise? ; )
roadracenut 1 month ago
I am an amateur as well and this is a very helpful tip. It's going to be a big time saver for me in my projects.
pmr10101 1 month ago
Im a machinist I also worked for Mitsui seiki installing,repairing, 5axis machines so they can machine to accuracy of 2microns . If this guy is happy about this let him enjoy his accomplishment . Some of us have unbelievable tolerance but let's not crack shots at the guy say good job post some more videos we like watching.
explode13 1 month ago
I am familiar with this tip, however I couldn't figure out how to hold the vice in place. As often the case the solution is amazingly simple. I plan on doing this on my own machine, I will probably buy some tool steel for the job as it's the only thing I can get that dimentionally accurate. I can't get imperial sized aluminium here and I have 5/8" slots. Thanks for the video it has made a difference.
Samqdf 1 month ago
@manofstl2000 your an idiot he called himself and amateur not a machinist....
vutre4 1 month ago 6
@vutre4 You don't get to call anyone an idiot until you learn the difference between "your" and "you're"
1203125 2 weeks ago 4
@manofstl2000 you're an idiot
ericakasatch 1 month ago
to be exact...0001 is one tenth of one thousandth...most machine parts are made with a tolerance of 0-5 thousandths + or -
ericakasatch 1 month ago
noone can hit.0001..that's less tha one thousandth of an inch..you would have to have the most accurate machine on the planet....do you?
ericakasatch 1 month ago
I did the same thing to my vice, except instead of the bar, I just used two neat fitting pins. As for .0001", a total wast of time.
winterka100 1 month ago
@manofstl2000 Why would you waste time setting up to .0001" if it's not required for the job? Maybe you suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder.
winterka100 1 month ago 2
What's funny is many milling machines only really have a repeatable accuracy of .001 due to problems with gibs, ball screws, casting imperfections etc. So, aiming for .0001 during alignment isn't going to do you any good. Great job with this rapid alignment tool! Looks good to this amateur machinist!
FrankenPC 2 months ago
precision is great here, good job
MattHumanPizza 2 months ago
@manofstl2000 , Real machinists don't call themselves machinists, others do. There's no reason to post a hateful comment on this video. Most of the work shops see is +/- .005 because of cost. Sure, we can all work out to four or even six with the right equipment and skill, but if his vice is indicated within half that's good enough for 90% of the work in the world. roadracenut, great video and usefull tip for many practical applications.
rom14141 2 months ago 3
@manofstl2000 OK, I won't call myself a machinist, happy?
roadracenut 2 months ago 10
@roadracenut One more thing, Don't listen to "real" machinists, most of them are unreliable employees that call themselves journeymen when you hire them but when it's time to stop talking and start making chips they suddenly don't know anything. If you want to know if a guy is a journeymen or master machinist, ask to see his tools...if he doesn't have any or if his box or tools aren't clean, he's full of shit and isn't a machinist I'd hire. Stay safe and keep learning.
rom14141 2 months ago 2
i dont get it
sonicfirestormfaizal 2 months ago
I have worked on molds built in Brazil, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, France, Vietnam and India. Converting inch/mm is like breathing to me. Here in the states we have literaly millions of machines, mills, lathes, surface grinders etc.., that are calibrated in inch increments, that are not ready for the scrap yard. As new machines,Digital readouts, CNC come in we will be better able to make the switch. It's coming so relax and remember 0.03937.
gbart57 2 months ago
Cool video and nice tip. I like your milling machine too. Thanks for posting.
SugarcreekForge 2 months ago
Unless you have a bride port, running some cat collets, with balls screws in all axis, hand lapped table and vise and stuffed it in a temperature and humidity controlled room YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE MAKING PARTS TO 1 TEN THOUSANDTHS OF AN INCH!... the typical manual milling machine is more then capable to repeat and produce within .002 of an inch. these morons chiming in talking about .0001 acc, need to go watch surface grinder videos.
to the auth of the video, awesome tip, nice video!
xboxoxzx 2 months ago
How square is it? Is it within .0001 over 6 inches?
ToxicZim 2 months ago 2
@ToxicZim Not even close. I have never needed to machine anything with that kind of accuracy. I figured I was doing good to even have a Brown & Sharp indicator, and it only reads to .0005. I shoot for .001. Not sure if you heard me mention it on the video, but I am an amateur and I just use this machine for fun. Hitting .0001 sounds like work to me.
roadracenut 2 months ago
@roadracenut with the right machine, coming within even .0002" is not outside the realm of possibilities. I do, however, have a slight problem with you calling it a 'keyway' when its really a slot or groove. A 'keyway' usually pertains to cuts made along the length of an ID or OD using a broach. just saying.
vintageludwig 2 months ago
@vintageludwig I see your point and I probably should have called it a slot. However, Google keyway definition and see what Google is just saying! :)
roadracenut 2 months ago
@roadracenut I hear ya. I'm just getting picky over semantics. its all good.
vintageludwig 2 months ago
@vintageludwig
I'm a pro and we call that a "T-slot"
zapwatt 2 months ago
@zapwatt actually the T-slots are what are cut into the table. there is no undercut or "T" in the slot that he milled. and I'm a toolmaker, I also know what I am talking about.
vintageludwig 2 months ago
@vintageludwig
I am talking about the T-slots in the table.
zapwatt 2 months ago
@zapwatt nobody is disputing that. of course those are T-slots. he isnt even talking about the slots on the table, but the slot he milled on his vise.
vintageludwig 2 months ago
@zapwatt I'd be more comfortable calling it a keyway than a T-slot...
vintageludwig 2 months ago
Comment removed
manofstl2000 2 months ago
Comment removed
amgent 2 months ago
i wish and hope America to convert to metric
boomba3 2 months ago 71
@boomba3 Amen brother!
roadracenut 2 months ago 27
@boomba3 This idea of metric vs imperial is silliness. We're already there but we're hung up on words. Change your mind & mouth to use the words "fractional" & "decimal" instead, because that matters more. You can be metric and use fractions or you can still be imperial and use decimals which *drumroll* we do! It's simple; The next time you need to do something 10-1/4", just say 10.25" instead. Beyond that if you cannot multiply twelve then numbers are simply out of your league.
zapwatt 2 months ago 3
@boomba3 Why? Our method of measurement works just fine the way it is. No reason to fix something that isn't broken.
Knightmixer 1 month ago
I'm sure that you understand that ideally the metric system is better (simpler).Having said that, Australia started converting to metric 35 years ago. Being a toolmaker, it was a nightmare.Half the drawings were metric,the rest, inches.I now happily use both,my machines are still in inches, but it's no big deal.Strangely, machinists and engineering type people never use centimetres (only millimetres) "outsiders"? only use centimetres.I think it will take another 20 years to get it smoothed out.
winterka100 1 month ago 2
@winterka100 I use both systems with equal ease and am always amused when I quote a dimension in decimetres. Screws up our metric only guys royally. Even after 35 years of Metric, try walking into a meat shop in Oz or Canada and ask the young person behind the counter for a quarter kilo of sliced meat of some sort. That'll earn you a blank stare. Metricists, bear in mind that we machined in thousandths in Imperial. It was no great challenge.
schlusselmensch 1 month ago
@winterka100 So true I always speak in millimetres for most of my measurements
HappySlave1 1 month ago
@boomba3 Me also!
TRcustomengineering 1 month ago
@boomba3 Think this may take generations for them to learn....they still havnt mastered english yet !!!
ljwartuk 1 month ago 2
@boomba3
I like both the mm and Inches. I love math, decimals and fractions are easy. Metric is easy and i like to use it with bearings and shafts stuff like that. But i love fractions to decimals so i will never convert fully to metric.
LeveL3RC 1 month ago
@boomba3
I hear you. Almost every project I do I measure in metric. My buddy uses SAE. It's hell when you go into the /64ths and smaller. WHY?!
GargamelThinks 1 month ago 2
with all due respect, isn't that a super super obvious way to handle the alignment?? I think most advanced machines have that embedded already...
nyer070 2 months ago
an indicator is still more precise anyways. interapid indicators have more travel then the one you have.
Alienworkshop741 2 months ago
@jeppoification
reddog418 2 months ago
A trick I discovered myself is to put ground dowle pins (2) in your tee slots in your table. They fit snugly, space them apart accordingly. This give you to contact points to which you can push a work piece up against thus getting it square in an instant. Then Clamp it to the table. It will usually be within .001-003 thousands over the whole piece length. you can then tap it in closer if you need to., I use dowel pins all the time.
dfpolitowski2 2 months ago 2
TRIPOD
KC5CQW 2 months ago
Great note, thanks for posting it and to the gentleman for pointing out the pre-existing one.
The only thing I would add is you may want to make your key out of steel. If made from aluminum it may wear over time and change true.
Rivett608 2 months ago
@Rivett608 Thanks. I finally picked up a 5/8" steel key the other day, but now I'm thinking I'll look for a 11/16" piece instead!
roadracenut 2 months ago
The key slots for x & y on a kurt type vise are .688. All bridgeport type mills have .625 slots.
Hardened steel step keys can be bought for $60 per set from MSC.
Milling a slot at the back of the vise will not weaken it. Factoid: For every 1lb of pressure, it exerts 1/4lb down.
Even if keyed, the vise should still be indicated in.
MrPdomeika 2 months ago
You will notice that the manufacturer put the locating slots in line with the mounting holes so you can use all your t slots to mount your vise. If you don't want to make stepped keys you could cut the .625 slot centered on the original slot and use a key that is short enough to fit between the mounting bolts. Also it is a good practice to use some scrap aluminum sheet to place under your step blocks when you are using strap clamps. Saves some wear and tear on the table. Nice work though!
Tadillac53 3 months ago
If you look at the center of the vise, you will see a slot that is already prepared for the key way. In addition, you can purchase a pre made key for the appropriate vise slot/t-slot combination. As for the stresses there are none associated with this setup. Great job on the out of the box thinking. Keep it up and forget what everyone else thinks.
rufusthecat289 3 months ago
@rufusthecat289 Wow. Who knew? Obviously not me! Looks like they are $30 each. I'll have to decide if it's worth my time to buy two for the other axis or do the same again. I haven't had time to even look at the Bridgeport for months. Too busy with home improvement projects and young kids. Thanks for the comment.
roadracenut 3 months ago
what are you talking about....
nwhiggins 3 months ago
That looks more like a drill press than a milling machine... o.O
haeseler333 3 months ago
THAT IS FREAKING GENIUS! Ok what did I just watch?? HAHA! JKJK!
killersushi99 3 months ago
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hyw25snjhwra 3 months ago
@rocketman697
If you bother to read the comments you will find that he stated that the slots on the bottom of the vise that you speak of, are:
A) very shallow
B) are .688 wide
Thus he would have had to go to all the trouble to accurately machine stepped keys.
applejak2000 3 months ago
@applejak2000 You effectively reduce the strength an rigidity of the vice. Your ability to hold that back jaw square while tightening the vice is reduced... What is so much trouble about making stepped keys if you've got a milling machine?
rocketman697 3 months ago
Comment removed
applejak2000 3 months ago
@rocketman697 how would milling a 5/8 slot on the bottom, as he has done, reduce "your ability to hold that back jaw square while tightening the vice..." ? It has absolutely nothing to do with that. Secondly I seriously doubt that milling a 5/8 slot "effectively reduces the strength an rigidity of the vice. " -- appreciably, at any rate. Go ahead mill very thin stepped keys if you want. What a lunkhead! This trick has been used successfully many many times over the years.
applejak2000 3 months ago
@applejak2000 Well I won't turn this into a pissing contest, or resort to childish namecalling... I will only say that this is not how I would treat my vice.
rocketman697 3 months ago
@rocketman697 If the highest stress in the vise was at the bottom of the vise or it was exposed to a high bending stress, I would be concerned. As to the stepped key, it isn't a ton more work, the truth is since they were so shallow and wider, it didn't even register that that is what they are there for. You all have to understand, I am a total hack, and don't pretend to be a machinist. I have learned a ton from all of your comments and wish I had as much machining knowledge as you all do.
roadracenut 3 months ago
It seems to me you could mill a square bar about 10" long and place accurately centered extra long 5/8 dowel pins at each end. Clamp the bar in the vice with the pins extending down into the t-slot and tighten the vice body down to the table once you've got everything set. Since the pins are centered on the bar (exactly parallel to the longitudal axis of the bar) they are thus parallel to the fixed jaw once the bar is clamped - they thus will bring the fixed jaw into alignment with the t-slot.
applejak2000 3 months ago
Did you check it after it was finished and mounted?
dave7222 3 months ago
@dave7222 Yes, believe it or not it was less than .001". Far better than I had hoped for.
roadracenut 3 months ago
It's good to have an Approximation ! My advice is to always have to Indicate, no matter what ! Is better work accurately !
gomezpiro 3 months ago
i got another faster trick to get a vise withing 0.010 every time depending on how worn out your vise is!
my trick involves 2- 5/8 solid dowels (not pull dowels)
all you do is slip the dowels into the clamp slots of the vise and push the vise forward, then carefully remove the dowels, then place your clamping on loosely, pop your indicator in then tap it a bit 1 way or the other and tighten down! no need to make new slots or anything of that nature!
crazykenkid 3 months ago
Very nice. Now, of course, if this level of accuracy is enough for you then you could have just placed the vice on the table and a ground rod in the tool holder and cranked the table back and forth with the vice jaw up against the ground rod. But still, this is a quick way to just attach the vice and clamp it down. I will say I'm not keen on 'cleaning up' the slots on the table since depending on the state of your gibs you run the risk of seriously maiming the table once and for all time.
jimbrady1776 3 months ago
@jimbrady1776 Thanks. Have you tried this and indicated it? The trick in the video gives me less than .001" accuracy. As for milling the T-slots, my gibbs are in great shape and VERY little metal was removed.
roadracenut 3 months ago
@roadracenut Nope. Although you can accomplish the same thing by clamping a bar into the vise jaws with pins pointing downward to hit the T slot I prefer to use a pivot pin in one vise ear. Yes it takes more time but I'd rather take the time to be more accurate. To each his own.
jimbrady1776 3 months ago
THIS IS GOOD
jsbjugmug 3 months ago
So basically all you did was square up that aluminum so you can have your vice square upside down, then milled the keyslot, and then drilled/tapped that 5/8 bar to your vice so it would fit into your T slots so its square every time. Nice. While its good practice they make us indicate the vises every time we go too use the mills in our class.
gearhead9122 3 months ago
What is so hard about indicating the vice and tapping it into place in relation to the spindle and head tram?
OnionChang 3 months ago
@OnionChang There's nothing hard about it, just time consuming and unnecessary for the kind of accuracy I need. I have far too many other priorities to spend my time indicating my vise every time.
roadracenut 3 months ago
Hey guys, just wondering, I starting training for Machining (CNC etc.) and I was wondering what you guys make so I can determine an average of what I'm getting into.
Kingjames313 3 months ago
That really varies a lot depending on what part of the country you live in. Nobody likes to talk about pay but since I'm retired, I don't care anymore. I have seen people start at 10 to 12 bucks an hour or more depending on where you are and go up to 30 or more an hour. Good luck.
rustbukit08 3 months ago
@Kingjames313
you might start anywhere from $10.00 - $12.00 if you just get out of school and have no experience.
applejak2000 3 months ago
you should just mill your vise in half. I cut mine into little pieces and through it on the floor.
shawnstam 3 months ago
@shawnstam
Through?
hrv50 3 months ago
@shawnstam I've done that but it just regenerated and now I have a dozen little vices running around my shop.
jimbrady1776 3 months ago
Not a bad idea actually, but I doubt my compnay would be too happy about me putting slots through the bottom of the vices!
skateboard4zero 3 months ago
@skateboard4zero There is no need to. The manufacturer thought of that already and put slots and tapped holes in the vice just for that purpose.
ardvarkkkkk1 3 months ago
As you learn (as I did) you will come up with many little time saving tricks that will make your life SOOO much easier. If you have a workpiece that is tricky to position and/or clamp, take the time to make a fixture or jig. Doesn't have to be fancy or perfect, but as time goes on, you'll be glad you did. I was milling slots in steel tube, and each peice had to be custom setup. I made a fixture, and now each time I need it, I smile. Got that right here!
thedreamliner2012 4 months ago
Yeah, nice work You make!!! But that "device" for vice is good, also that "device" is maked long time ago. It use for indexable heads and rotary tables etc drilling/milling equipment too.
FactoryDragon87 4 months ago
Dude- put (2) 5/8 dowel pins in the key ways, flip the vise and grab the pins with the vise. mount your sacrificial bar (that's slightly proud of .625), Mill the bar to .6245/.6249 end to end. and that's how a pro does it. quick and accurate, and on to the business of business.
par4par72 4 months ago
I find that pins are more accurate than keys at positioning anything on a jig,fixture or machine table. once you have the vice (or fixture) where you want it and have it aligned to the mill just drill and ream a pair of 1/4" holes for dowel pins. You can also set the vise at 45 or 30 or any position at all on the table and pin it in as many places as you want.
Simpsons36 4 months ago