@reconcilingfire Rob is the perfect demonstration of the Wrath of God in this country. I'd have to say if Mr Bell doesn't come clean and take his book off the shelves many people will continue to be deceived by this simple image of man. We can only try to reach out to many people who have been indoctrinated by Bell and pray that those who are will come to know the truth about God and His righteous judgement.
@theembracedofgod well spoken. Rob Bell and other such as Joel Osteen are God's Judgement, they tickle ears but do not preach the Gospel. They preach a very false and disgusting view of their own god's love.
With Bell's unbiblical theology he makes Paul out to be a liar. The scriptures says no murderer, fornicatore, etc will inherit God's kingdom (1 Cor 6:9,10). With Bell's theology this is not the case. They can blaspheme God, gratify every desire of the flesh, spend a little time in hell getting "pruned", and then inherit God's kingdom. Indulge in sin and go to heaven. Sounds likes a man made, demonically inspired doctrine. No wonder so many people like it. HELLS BELL DOT NET.
@PreachingJesus Now come on; I do not for one minute that Bell says this! Anyway, if you believe (as many Christians do) that it is faith in Jesus that saves you then you too can get away with all this!
@Theolence Of course he does. Didn't you read the book? Bell believes God will give people the opportunity to get out of hell even if they never believe in Jesus while alive. So they can gratify every desire of the flesh and then, after being "pruned" in hell, they can go to heaven. What a joke. The guys is not fit to be a pastor, teacher, elder etc. Do you want me to list the verse's he takes out of context? Context is a pretty simple things. Doesn't take a genius to understand.
@PreachingJesus I think it's much more moral and loving to not condemn people to eternal damnation and torment just for a few things they did wrong in a finite life when they didn't have enough information to make an informed judgement on the issue. There is still a punishment for the wrongs we do in this theology, but that punishment doesn't (and rightly so) last for eternity. I think this is much closer to the biblical picture given of heaven when it is taken as a whole.
@Theolence First of all, it doesn't matter what you "think or feel". If you, like most Bell supporters, are led by what you "think and feel" you will fall into deception. What matters is what God has said. Bell's whole book is filled with "what he feel's God should do and be". He's a humanist that makes God into his own image. Plus you are minimising sin. Have you read the first three chapters of Romans? People don't just do a "few" wrong things.
@PreachingJesus Sorry if I was unclear, but when I say "I think" this is based on a philosophical and theological basis; as is this book. No one is minimising sin, but in my opinion (sadly) you don't grasp the moral problem that belief in eternal punishment for finite sins brings. This is not consistent with the idea of a God that IS love. I don't blame you for not grasping this point because I thought the same thing, but this is an issue whether you like it or not.
you assume that sin is this a subjective action that has no real effect. This is a problem "finite sins brings"- this assumes that sins are finite to a infinite and eternal God... that can't follow logic of the scriptures. sin against a eternal God=eternal judgement for that sin. you have to remember what I mean on my first sentence, When you sin, it isn't doesn't something bad for yourself, its a action of violation against a eternal God.
Quite the reverse actually. Paul's theology is "as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive" and the life that all will be made alive to is the spotless, righteous life of Jesus Himself. If you're depending on the fact that you don't blaspheme, gratify every desire of the flesh, Indulge in sin etc. to get you into the kingdom, then God have mercy on you! It's all by His grace and it's only our self righteousness that will keep us out!
Got questions about hell? Get answers! I will be teaching a series on the doctrine of hell and will post the answers to your questions online. All submissions will be addressed in a youtube video. Visit my youtube channel to submit your questions.
I was recently fired as youth and teaching pastor for my belief that Hell is not eternal torment. I wrote a book about my beliefs and what the Scriptures actually teach on the subject. It's coming out soon, you can check out my blog to follow along. I'd love to get the message out to as many people as possible. The book is called "What the Hell" How Did We Get It So Wrong? whatthehellbook . com
@remusnigga What research? All Bell did was take verses out of context and make them say something God never intended them to say. His book is a total joke. It's amazing how many people are blinded by his deception. Clearly a sign of the times. If you want to see ALL the scriptures Bell uses out of context visit HELLS BELL DOT NET.... and you will have your eyes opened... that is if you like to read scripture in context because you actually care about what God has said.
If God's love for us will overcome our fate for all of us to go to heaven then why was the book of revelation written about when God will come back to judge the earth and everyone will be judged for his or her own account. God talks about hell, more in the bible than heaven. so why would you think he would let everyone go to heaven when 100% of the bible is about God telling us HOW to get to heaven. Not that we ARE going to heaven.This isn't a topic we can afford to be wrong about.
@Mr217suzuki Does the bible talk more about Hell than Heaven? You do know that Jesus never actually mentions Hell in the way that we understand it as these people had no concept of an eternal Hell? Furthermore, Revelation is a very complicated book that most theologians understand as referring to the oppressive Roman empire that the early church lived in.
Bell's problem is that he doesn't care what the word of God says. It's easy to see. Almost every verse he uses in his book is taken out of context and made to say something God never intended the verse to say. A child could do a better job of reading the Word in Context. If you'd like to read a review that shows Bells errors and the deception behind his work, visit... Hells Bell Dot..... Net
@PreachingJesus I think it's very easy to give the generic 'out of context' reply, but what Bell does throughout this book is try to give a very thorough context of these difficult passages. I think he shows very well that there's a lot more texture to biblical theology than the evangelical church on the whole accepts and we should all question why we believe things like "a personal relationship with Jesus saves us" when it isn't written in the Bible.
@Theolence Context? Can you show me one verse that Bell uses in context? If you go to my site you will see that I clearly show that Bell has no idea about read scripture in context. His book is the worst form of biblical scholarship I've seen in ages. My 10 year old could read in context better than Bell does in his book! Seriously. Go to my site, read my response and then contact me through the contact page and tell me where I'm wrong. HELLS BELL DOT NET......
@PreachingJesus That all sounds like a lot of effort; I'll just say it here. Just look at the first chapter. What Bell does is raise the question "how am I saved"? Now there are many responses to this in the NT and so, to put the question in context, Bell mentions them all. By doing so he shows up the common answer of "ask Jesus into your life" (or similar) as being unreflective of what the NT says. This is not bad theological scholarship, it's just not your form of scholarship.
@Theolence It shouldn't take you much effort to show me the verse's Bell uses in context if you've read the book. I can list many verse that Bell uses to build his case which are totally taken out of context. Seriously, if Bell learned how to contextualize scripture at Wheaton College, he should ask for his money back. How can you defend Bell's abuse of scripture, his attack on God's character, and the fear he uses in his book against people who believe the bible?
@PreachingJesus I defend it because I do not believe it is an attack on God's character. I'm sorry, but I don't! There are many different forms of hermeneutics and many different ways to contextualise scripture. I find that a lot the time bible colleges teach a hermeneutic that is too sympathetic to this 'orthodox' evangelical theology. It's nice to see prominent leaders apply a hermeneutic of suspicion to these texts.
@Theolence I'm not talking about different forms of hermeneutics. I'm talking about simply reading the bible in context. Something God has enabled even a babe in Christ to do. God did not make things so complicated that it takes a man like Rob Bell to tell us what God really meant...even if it disagrees with the plain meaning of the text! Simple questions for you.. 1 Cor 3:11-17.. is that written for believers or non-believers?
@PreachingJesus Ok... So this verse is written to the saints in Corinth, but I don't see why that matters as Bell is using it to give a general picture of Heaven. Also, I don't think it helps anyone by you being so disparaging and flippant to say that it's easy to read the bible in context; even a babe (in Christ) can do it. The fact is it is hard to read the bible because it is a compilation of many different peoples work who all had varying opinions. If it wasn't hard we'd have the same view!
@Theolence U don't think context matters to God? It's not a general view of heaven. It's a view of judgment for believers. It has nothing to do with non-believers as Bell would mislead us and have us believe. These things are important. BUT, I appreciate you being honest about the text. Most Bell defenders aren't. Couple more questions; who does God give talents to in Luke 19:12-27, his servants or non-believers?
@Theolence Also, it DOES matter because Bell has propped himself up as a teacher and elder. The scripture says to qualify for this position "one must be able to teach". Bell has CLEARLY shown he is unable to teach as he cannot even get the context of some BASIC passages of scripture. I could understand him misunderstanding some verses in Revelation, but he does destroy the basic meaning of texts that, as I said, even a babe in Christ could understand. Blind leading the blind.
@PreachingJesus I disagree. I think you need to give him more credit than this. I've enjoyed the conversation though. Gonna send you a friend request; hope to chat more in the future!
Nice to see someone thinking outside of the box of hierarchy and power and fear, and applying love and logic to this message OF Jesus...not the second-hand message ABOUT Jesus.^^
Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a man hit the mainstream with a more potent and sensible translation of what Jesus really meant than Bell. This is, for the unmoving Far Right, fundamentalist faction the largest powder keg they could imagine. Bell brings no animosity, no hate, no threat to anyone whatsoever. The only people who perceive him as a threat are those preoccupied more with hierarchy and power than with love. I feel for Bell, though. He will meet great cruelty from his foes.
Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a man hit the mainstream with a more potent and sensible translation of what Jesus really meant than Bell. This is, for the unmoving Far Right, fundamentalist faction the largest powder keg they could imagine. Bell brings no animosity, no hate, no threat to anyone whatsoever. The only people who perceive him as a threat are those preoccupied more with hierarchy and power than with love. I feel for Bell, though. He will meet great cruelty from his foes.
This is nothing but a FALSE, CONVENIENT gospel to please the masses and embrace every SIN....We are commanded to love all, and pray for everyone's salvation, but there canNOT be any compromise, I hope these convoluted leaders enjoy their short time of fame, that's what this is all about! Oprah must be his best friend....lolol
I am VERY encouraged that of all the pastors contacted to comment on Bell for this piece NONE of them would respond until they had a copy of the book for themselves. That is impressive maturity in the face of a LOT of negative (and indeed positive) comments from folk who haven't even read it yet.
I don't mean to be inciting fear. What is wrong with Mormons is they read the bible and somehow got that there are tons of gods, and that Lucifer was Jesus' brother, and when we die we all become Gods. I don't know about you, but when I read the Bible, I don't get that.
What I don't understand is this: if you say you are a Christian, aren't you admitting that Jesus Christ paid for your sin, and paid the price on the cross, satisfying God's wrath? Well then, if you then continue to say there is no hell, what was the purpose of Jesus? what did he save us from? If there is no punishment, why must there even be a savior?
@HeTotallyJust ....Hi there, I think you are right to question this, the hell is right here of our own making if we choose to go down that road. Jesus saved me from myself going down a road to hell right here, right now. It is the ways of the world (sin) that put me in hell, not God. I put myself there...and beleive me there is a clear difference when you are there and when you are not.
Rob Bell is our brother in Christ. If you think he's that jacked up then pray for his recovery instead of bashing him on social media. Love thy neighbor.
Something of the Father heart for his lost creation and Jesus being the ultimate Saviour of All men has hit his heart. One day everyone will be jacked up on this!
@dickster7000 Paul urges us in his letters to the Church to teach and correct one another... rob bell is one that needs correction. In the end, when he is corrected love is demonstrated. If I was speaking something incorrect I would want correction... but from those who love me.
@dickster7000 loving they nieghbor is guarding the flock from someone that teaches anti Christian ideas...Rob Bell has been called out in regards to his non-Christian teaching and has yet to repent...which means he is to be treated as non-Christian and left alone. We are to preach the Gospel to him, but to protect others from such unorthdox, un Christian teaching such as his. I myself do not regard him as a brother in Christ. Humility is submitting to the Authoratative word of God. :)
Protestants throw the word "heretic" around very frivolously. In order to be a heretic one must disagree with a fundamental church belief - only in this case - WHICH CHURCH'S BELIEF are we talking about? The Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Church of Christ? Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians? And, for all you "bible-based church" people out there, explain to me how the Holy Spirit can lead each of you - individually - to a different scriptural interpretation???
@leb4nb There is no different interpretation to heaven and hell. In fact, most religions would agree that the human race is messed up. Not everyone chooses God, therefore, they go to hell, they did not repent of there actions, so they get to spend the rest of there lives in hell for punishment for what they did.
I heard Rob Bell speak this evening. This is my challenge to my fellow Christians: Read the book before you condemn the message. Is it possible that WE as humans don't get the inside info as to who goes to heaven and who doesn't? If you claim to know (who is saved and who is condemned), you are treading on thin ice. I agree with Rob. GOD is in control, and He decides who spends eternity with him.
@subsequentescalator Of course, but Matthew 7:13-14 also says: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Thomas Jefferson believed in Universalism as well. He wrote the whole New Testament again getting rid of any verse that did not agree with his belief that all people go to heaven. He's wrong by the way.
@k0smon I have a copy I got at a garage sale or something. It's the same thing you get if you just read the "red letters" (words of Jesus in a red letter edition of the Bible). Nothing really dramatic but the edit removes much of the miraculous (for which Jefferson was incredulous) and the back story attempting just to capture the moral teachings. Unfortunately by taking quotes out of proper context you can say anything you want and miss the original author's meaning.
@subsequentescalator I see Rob has gotten to you as well. Yes, God is in control...but he did give us an absolute way of knowing who is "in" and who is "out". Sure, we don't know people's hearts. But if they do not confess Jesus as Lord and live according to his Word, they're not going to Heaven. That's what Jesus said, not what anyone else says today..
@subsequentescalator@subsequentescalator I see Rob has gotten to you as well. Yes, God is in control...but he did give us an absolute way of knowing who is "in" and who is "out". Sure, we don't know people's hearts. But if they do not confess Jesus as Lord and live according to his Word, they're not going to Heaven. That's what Jesus said, not what anyone else says today..
Rob Bell is wrong on his stand point, Christ and scripture that is consistant throughout the bible says very plainly the state of heaven and hell. Christ spoke about this subject many times. Due to accepting salvation it is the only way you obtain Christ and being able to be with him in heaven otherwise, no matter what you do or say, you end up in Hell. As harsh as that is, it is the free will of choice that is very plainly stated in scripture.
Dear Modern Day Pharacees: What if Bell is a heratic AND he is right? What if your own orthodox interpretations of scripture were wrong? What if your literalist belief system was based on a convoluted and perverted faith? What if the gnashing of teeth were your own?
@prajnasword I like many of the questions you brought here. I am currently uploading videos as I work through his book in order to add to the discussion. I appreciate your outlook and I see it as very important for someone to allow themselves the opportunity to be wrong as to learn from it.
I dont know if rob bell is a heretic or not, but to teach that all are saved goes against the plain teaching of Holy scripture and i fully disagree with it because if people are wrong and believe they are going to heaven without needing to have faith in christ, then they could go to hell believing this, and those who teach this doctrine would be partly responsible for the damnation of that persons soul, but if one believes and trusts in Christ for salvation then he will be saved. simple.
Most Christians are simply ignorant of the fact that over the history of the church there are many good thinkers (even conservative ones) that have had differing views on hell. When someone is bold enough to level the charge of heresy they are tipping there hand and showing how little they really know.
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Jesus is the only way to eternal life. Hell is the grave. Man is not an immortal being. Check out my article on facebook where I explain this with dozens of Bible versus. Facebook search Bible Insights and God and Eternal Punishment
it is my understanding, as an ex christian, that christianity is about power and control. Keeping that in mind, no matter how much “window dressing” people put on the religion/relationship/way of life, christianity is about worshipping some guy named Jesus and if you do not, you will be sorry. So, with that in mind, I believe all of christianity is WRONG, UNSPRITUAL and missing the point. BE YOURSELF
@9tailedfoxgoddess I feel so sorry for you. The truth is that the Bible is the most romantic love story you will ever read. In fact, he loves us so much that a man that had no sin, died for our sin. He took our place, and God just wants you to love him. I would challenge you to read the new testament. Listen to no pastor, and allow yourself to find the true meaning of Christianity. Not following a religion or denominator, but being a follower of Christ.
@steverexfg You're ridiculous. If you believe there is no hell, read the Bible. From front to back. You mights as well be a Mormon. What would you say to “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14
@Josiahrocco ....geez dude...chill out.....you are inciting fear.....who is the father of fear....hmmm......and What is wrong with Mormons?...you are no christian....and I don't really give a frick.
@steverexfg Jesus, yes and Martin Luther, and John Wesley, and the early church was considered a cult. No progress is made in our understanding of God without the defenders of the old order getting all grumpy.
Having said that, what beliefs would you consider heretical?
Well, i do understand your belifs, i was an elder in a PCA church so i do get 'election". Anyway, we likely are not going to change our minds on this...I wont call you a hereitc :-) But you a free to call me anything you like, we are brothers (really!) in Christ and brothers sometimes resort to name calling, eh?
Jesus died for the sins of the world and He is the only way to salvation. I wish only peace for you.
At no time did Adam or any of his descendants eat from "the tree of life to live forever" in fact, they were prevented from doing so!! Eternal life is NOT experienced by all in two different locations. In contrast to Bell, you may wish to take a second look and consider the perspective of Conditional Immortality and perhaps the videos on YOUTUBE by EDWARD FUDGE who does an indepth study on the issue. BTW Nice hyping of the book by HarperOne owned NewsCorp. media outlets.
The book of Revelation? Oh please, that's NOT to be read literally, & you KNOW that buthere you go quoting it. Geesh, if ever a book was a mystery & written as metaphor that one was the book! Besides, I never said there is no judgement or that beievers wont be found rightous through Gods grace & Christ's blood....all I am saying is what we know to be true, God wills all to be saved, Gods will be done. Let's not act like the podigals older bro and get all upset at HIS grace. :-)
The definition of the scripture is the scripture. The greek word for desire in 1 Tim 2:4 is not that which expresses God's will of decree(His eternal purpose), but Gods will of desire. There is a distinction between God's desire and His eternal saving purpose. Like I said you can't use one verse and use it incorrectly. You are being dishonest with all of the other verses that talk about election, choosing etc. Not all will be saved Matt. 7. There are many verses about eternal punishment.
@joeforHistruth Everybody goes to heaven...you seem to think that Satan is more powerful thatn God! Satan ,in your view, wins most of the souls, God is weaker and unable to defeat Satan in this battle. How small a god who seem to have. Read 1 Tim 4;10. Jesus is the savour of all.
@1macboo "Everbody goes to heaven" What verse from the bible is that?This is not true, not everyone goes.
How from what I said did I hint at saying that I think Satan is more powerful than God? lol
Satan is already defeated, he does what God allows him to do and that's it.
Jesus is the Savior of all believers. No one can come to the Christ unless the Father draws him. God elects, God chooses, this is all over the bible. As Jesus Himself said, "few there be that find it"
@joeforHistruth I think we could both find scripture to back our beliefs, You and i agree that evil is defeated, the difference is that i believe God won and you believe ....I guess...that God won but it's a hollow victory as Satan wins almost every soul. BUT "...our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL PEOPLE, and especially of those who believe." 1Tim 4:10 ALL People w/a special relationship w/believers to be sure. Hey, don't fear Grace. God wins...Satan losses...Thats GOOD NEWS!
@1macboo You can't pull out a verse and build a theology on it. Context, context. The entire bible makes it clear that all do not go to heaven. Christ is Savior to all who believe, if he was Savior to all people then the ones in hell now wouldn't be there. Universalist teaching is heresy and it presents a different jesus, not the one from scripture. I know God wins, He chooses, He draws, He elects, but not all.
@1macboo Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
@0OoJoshuaoO0 The book of Revelation? Oh please, that's NOT to be read literally, & you KNOW that but here you go quoting it. Geesh, if ever a book was a mystery & written as metaphor that one was the book! Besides, I never said there is no judgement or that beievers wont be found rightous through Gods grace & Christ's blood....all I am saying is what we know to be true, God wills all to be saved, Gods will be done. Let's not act like the podigals older bro and get all upset at HIS grace. :-)
@1macboo Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
@joeforHistruthmost scripture is read out of context or in a literal not metaphorical way. If God elects some to go to hell,and He's OK with this then He can not be the God who is Love (1 jn 4:7) How can he will all be saved but be powerless to have HIS will be done? "God WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4). And of course, we know, He works ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL (Eph. 1:10-11).
@1macboo God wil have mercy on whom He will have mercy.(Romans 9:14-24, read it). Read your bible and quit using a verses out of context, the meaning of the scripture is the scripture. It all goes together. It clearly teaches election and hell for unbelievers.
Is God only love??? No. He is also mercuful, gracious, slow to anger, wrathful, a God of vengeance, judgment,justice etc..
It's really humerous how you piece together verses to make your point. Your not being true to the text.
@1macboo Take all those verses in context. All the election verses, all of the judgment and hell verses as well. All of the outcome of unbelief verses. Not just the ones you want to make your false heretical claim.
@1macboo I agree will you that satan is not more powerful than God. But God will send satan to the lake of fire to burn forever, and God will send all people to the lake of fire that rejected Jesus.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
amossunghopark It's already been reviewed and it needs critizing/critiquing if you're interested in truth and following the bible. I tried to post a link but stupid youtube says error, try again. Go to the white horse inn website and you'll find a review by Lansing Pastor Kevin YOung.
Before we prejudge Rob's view on hell, we need to wait until the book comes out. I feel that this is one way to publicize his new book "Love Wins" that is coming out on March 29th. He is a guru when it comes to catching people's attention through short films like his Nooma DVD series. Considering he is a Wheaton College student, I doubt he advocates the no hell theology.
Rather, the Scriptures teach that all of those who are effectually called and regenerated, are converted, and as a result of God's acting upon them, now exercise faith and repentance. This means that effectual calling and regeneration necessarily issues forth in the exercise of faith.
Thank the Canons of Dort for this wonderful explanation.
This gospel call is sincerely offered to all, but only effectually realized in God’s elect.
Men and women believe in Jesus Christ only because God enables them to do so. Faith is not simply a response by those fallen sinners, who now choose to exercise their free-will and believe, having been enabled to do so by the “prevenient grace” of God, supposedly secured for all by the death of Christ.
I find the teaching of Hell is false teaching sorry I've read the scriptures and have been a believer for years but Hell is a false teaching. people should realy read there history and mythologies of the culture back then. the idea of Hell only came into believe after the rain of Constantine.
Rob Bell brings a neo-falsehood here,.. I fear that these feel good Guru's are the present threat to the true gospel in that they, just as cultists prey on the weaknesses of the vulnerable with only choice bits of the gospel message. Rob Bell carefully culls from the bible choice bits to feed his own and others emotions. Of course his message doesn't have to be true to attract a following. If it sounds nice and feels nice then its right...RIGHT?. This is the wide path Christ warns of in Matt 7.
God is love. Love respects human freedom and human choices. If someone chooses NOT to be with God for all eternity, God will respect the decision even if it will result in eternal unhappiness also known as eternal damnation. God does not force humans to choose Him or be with Him even though He made man for Himself. He made the angels also with free will. Some rejected Him and asked to be sent away because they hated God. You choose. Your actions are your choice so choose wisely!
@cool555breeze There is truth in what you are saying but it doesn't mean that all are correct and speak truthfully. There must be a group that speaks correctly if the Bible is true because the Holy Spirit was given to one of those groups of men and Paul refers to it as the "pillar and foundation of truth" 1 Tim 3: 15 Therefore the rest must be in error and speaking lies. The question is which body of men speaks for Him? Whom did He tell, "He who hears you, hears me"?
“For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world but do save the world” (John 3:17)
People do not fully contemplate or understand the ramifications of believing in a God that allows even the possibility of eternal torment for those He clearly asserts He loves with an unrelenting merciful love clearly portrayed in Jesus Christ – 1 John 4:14 (GW) “We have seen and testify to the fact that the Father sent his Son as the Savior of the world.”
Yes I believe it is not a doctrine any longer but a bizarrely preferred sickness among the leading theologians, pastors, and bible teachers “For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind - Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.” (2Ti 1:7,13)
Now it seems It must be some sort of sadistic mental illness; because you cannot reason with someone wanting to prove the warped traditional version of GOD'S judgment. These proponents of eternal torture will not listen to sound words or judgment with any sort of common sense at all. Only the blank stair of madmen returning a strange mix of words of confusion and misinterpretation with total evasion and prevarication of the subject.
The word "Hell" as it is understood today, is the most destructive, disparaging, reproachful, derogatory, insulting, belittling word known to mankind associated with the character and nature of GOD our loving Father and Savior. I used to think it was just a mistaken understanding of the original language of the bible. Now, after speaking with and corresponding in various ways with many people on this topic; I have concluded that it is much worse than I had thought. They are plainly denying truth
It is disgusting to hear people put God on trial, as if He would be awful to put a rebel in hell. The one who is awful, is the one who REJECTS God's work for him. Man is to blame for his own destiny. The gospel is "unto ALL, but only UPON all who believe (on Jesus)". There is not a universal unconditional salvation. The sad thing is, man will still blame God when he is in hell, cursing God as he did while he was on the earth. Hell still not change his dark, dark heart that is black with sin!
Rob Bell is right. Jesus is the savior of the whole world.
Hell is a myth. Jesus never spoke about hell. The bible never does either.
All you have to do is study this & you'll find it out for yourself.
God didn't make a hell, knowing that billions of souls would end up there, being burned alive forever. If God did that, then God is evil.
People who want to be in an elite group of special people are no different then Pharisees. Get over yourselves. You're not special, but you are loved.
@Lightmane321 You mean people have to spend all eternity with Jesus and in heaven even if they don't want to be there? You are so mean and evil to condemn devil worshippers to heaven and the light. Shame on you! What God of a God would force someone against their will for all eternity to be with Him if they didn't want to. That would be a dictator. You are so hateful and mean to force people to heaven! Love means respecting the other's wishes and choices.
@ChulaKirby "What kind of a God would force someone against their will for all eternity to be with Him if they didn't want to."
What you choose in life, He respects at death. Be careful what you choose because many people think they have control of when they die and think they can change their decision. God might respect for all eternity what your choice is today. The devil and the demons rejected Him and He gave them what they chose: Darkness and eternal separation from Him.
Watch how Rob relates good works in relationship with going to heaven. He uses Gandhi as a example. He basically says read between the lines on what I am saying to you. If Gandhi went to hell then there must be only a few people in heaven!!?!?! Well, if you read the Bible and live by the words that Jesus proclaimed, John 14:6 "Jesus {ANSWERED}, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Rob someone already asked the question, now accept the answer!
Why do I relate the very essence of ignorance associated with these questions? Don't get me wrong questions pose a necessity to one building a stronger faith and a closer relationship with God, but one who asks questions only to ponder and become self sufficient with creating the answers to these very questions can not stand. A man made equation/solution can not hold weight amongst God's word. Rob circles his "career" if you will call it around one thing, and that is his interpretation.
I find it funny that people label Rob as a "heretic" based on a 2 minute video without even reading the book and probably never reading any of his other books or listening to him speak. I go to Mars Hill and I've never been to a church that digs so deeply into the Word. It's really easy to make quick judgements about a person based on a promo video or what critics say, but try to take a first hand look at what Rob is actually saying before you write him off as the anti-Christ.
@amyisawinneratlife I agree. It is a two minute video. I mean, for my money it's good advertising. he has only asked questions and people are making it out to be that those questions are his answers. For all I know/don't know (based on the video), is that he could answer "yes, there is a hell and only a few will make it." I haven't read enough of his stuff and I don't know him personally, so I cannot even think to judge his heart. I haven't read any comments yet by those who have read the book.
@1776iscoming If he is right then everyone is in hell. By definition, heaven is all eternity united in union with the All Loving God. And Hell is eternal separation from the All Loving God. If God does not give us the freedom to choose between Him and not Him, then He doesn't respect us. If He doesn't respect us then He doesn't love us. If He doesn't love us then we could never be in union for all eternity with the All Loving God because He would not be loving at all but a dictator. HELL
You lost me. You said that God doesn't give us the freedom to choose between Him and not Him? How can you say that when the scripture tells us that those who choose not to repent and accept His son as the atonement for our sins, will not enter heaven? We have free will to accept Him or deny Him. I'm not sure why you believe that we don't?
@1776iscoming I believe God does give us freedom. If He didn't then there would be no heaven because if God didn't give us the freedom to not choose him then we would be forced to be with Him. In classic Christian definition "heaven" is being united to the All Lovong God (who is love itself) for all eternity. Hell is eternal separation from the All Loving God for all eternity. That if the chief pain of hell suffered by the damn. If a pastor says God doesn't let us not choose then .........
If God doesn't let us not choose Him then we cannot love Him freely and he isn't loving us because he is forcing Himself on us. That is NOT love nor a loving God. That would mean god is not a loving God and if we are forced to spend all eternity with a God who doesn't love us that is not heaven but HELL.
I meant to say "Loving" instead of "Lovong" and "That is" instead of "That if" in the post above.
@ClockFaceOrange No need to believe in 'hell', friend...as long as there are those whom only seek to append thier own self-centered means and selfish desires, then they help perpetuate 'hell on earth'. It's up to each and every single one of us to decide whether or not we wish futher the human condition, or accelerate it's ruin...rather a simple choice, actually...
Gods word is foolishness to those who are perishing....You are perishing if you have not believed in Christ as your Lord and savior...its that simple....Soooo..just believe and trust in the Lord and you will be saved for all eternity.
Rob Bell is just another heretic and false teacher...ignore his spiritual dillusiion and stand up for the truth of Gods word ... his written...true...litteral...inerrant word.
Jesus did accomplish the mission that God sent him here for...He saved us...now we just have to choose to be saved...its up to us...because God created us with a free will to choose hiim or not to choose him. Yes Bells book is heresy and false teaching. There is a hell...and right now as we speak there are people suffering in hell for eternity...until God burns up hell and all in it !! Read your bible people,.He is a Just and merciful God,.Jesus Loves you and only through him your saved.
O, how I do love the clashes of conflicting theological sophisms. It's always an entertaining spectacle when two or more equally unsubstantiated assertions of varying degree of speciousness collide.
Isn't it odd that a person gets condemned as a heretic for believing that Jesus Christ was actually able to accomplish what he came here to do. Christian theology is the intricately detailed explanation of why Jesus wasn't able to accomplish His mission to save the world. Obviously making man's will to reject God more powerful than God's will to save Him. That's not heresy it's anti-christ
Provocation as a teaching tool often makes reading into assumptions very easy to do. It also helps sell books and grab attention. :) Hopefully, in doing so, it will help us all to think deeper and act on the important matters of faith (without necessarily having to agree on everything).
@Macboo1 what does Romans 3:23-24 Romans 6:23, John 3:16-17 mean to you?? (just to name a few...) God sent His son Jesus todie for our sins and by Hhis grace we are saved....not by works or by people....but thru Christ Jesus....Im no scholar but that is Bibical Truth. its the path that is sometimes hard but the rewards are everlasting.....
I think it's necessary to read this book without any presuppositions, but still in a way skeptical. Maybe universialism is true, maybe it's not. Maybe he's not even a universalist. We should probably read the book first before sending rob bell to hell. i'm really interested to read it.
As a christian universalist (and i believe there are more of us than people think) I am excited and pleased to hear of Bell's new book. Universalism IS biblical and perhaps now we can have the discussion. I imagine some of ya'll are looking for green wood though.
@Superbee4401 let's wait on this, brother. i don't think this is universalism( yet at least). i'd call it just damn annoying. he's merely asking deep questions about heaven and hell. the only indication of universalism is his "love wins" statement. love can mean a lot of things though. just look in this culture, we simply cannot tell. so let's wait and save our accusations but definitely be on our guard and warn others. God will be glorified regardless. we will be more mindful of heresies.
GO ROB GO!!! I am SO glad he is preaching the truth. The church has become so misled these past centuries.
reconcilingfire 4 months ago
@reconcilingfire Rob is the perfect demonstration of the Wrath of God in this country. I'd have to say if Mr Bell doesn't come clean and take his book off the shelves many people will continue to be deceived by this simple image of man. We can only try to reach out to many people who have been indoctrinated by Bell and pray that those who are will come to know the truth about God and His righteous judgement.
theembracedofgod 1 month ago
@theembracedofgod well spoken. Rob Bell and other such as Joel Osteen are God's Judgement, they tickle ears but do not preach the Gospel. They preach a very false and disgusting view of their own god's love.
chisumproctor 1 week ago
With Bell's unbiblical theology he makes Paul out to be a liar. The scriptures says no murderer, fornicatore, etc will inherit God's kingdom (1 Cor 6:9,10). With Bell's theology this is not the case. They can blaspheme God, gratify every desire of the flesh, spend a little time in hell getting "pruned", and then inherit God's kingdom. Indulge in sin and go to heaven. Sounds likes a man made, demonically inspired doctrine. No wonder so many people like it. HELLS BELL DOT NET.
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@PreachingJesus Now come on; I do not for one minute that Bell says this! Anyway, if you believe (as many Christians do) that it is faith in Jesus that saves you then you too can get away with all this!
Theolence 6 months ago
@Theolence Of course he does. Didn't you read the book? Bell believes God will give people the opportunity to get out of hell even if they never believe in Jesus while alive. So they can gratify every desire of the flesh and then, after being "pruned" in hell, they can go to heaven. What a joke. The guys is not fit to be a pastor, teacher, elder etc. Do you want me to list the verse's he takes out of context? Context is a pretty simple things. Doesn't take a genius to understand.
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@PreachingJesus I think it's much more moral and loving to not condemn people to eternal damnation and torment just for a few things they did wrong in a finite life when they didn't have enough information to make an informed judgement on the issue. There is still a punishment for the wrongs we do in this theology, but that punishment doesn't (and rightly so) last for eternity. I think this is much closer to the biblical picture given of heaven when it is taken as a whole.
Theolence 6 months ago
@Theolence First of all, it doesn't matter what you "think or feel". If you, like most Bell supporters, are led by what you "think and feel" you will fall into deception. What matters is what God has said. Bell's whole book is filled with "what he feel's God should do and be". He's a humanist that makes God into his own image. Plus you are minimising sin. Have you read the first three chapters of Romans? People don't just do a "few" wrong things.
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@PreachingJesus Sorry if I was unclear, but when I say "I think" this is based on a philosophical and theological basis; as is this book. No one is minimising sin, but in my opinion (sadly) you don't grasp the moral problem that belief in eternal punishment for finite sins brings. This is not consistent with the idea of a God that IS love. I don't blame you for not grasping this point because I thought the same thing, but this is an issue whether you like it or not.
MagicJimDavid 6 months ago
@MagicJimDavid
you assume that sin is this a subjective action that has no real effect. This is a problem "finite sins brings"- this assumes that sins are finite to a infinite and eternal God... that can't follow logic of the scriptures. sin against a eternal God=eternal judgement for that sin. you have to remember what I mean on my first sentence, When you sin, it isn't doesn't something bad for yourself, its a action of violation against a eternal God.
theembracedofgod 1 month ago
@PreachingJesus Sorry, didn't realise I was on someone else's account!
Theolence 6 months ago
Quite the reverse actually. Paul's theology is "as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive" and the life that all will be made alive to is the spotless, righteous life of Jesus Himself. If you're depending on the fact that you don't blaspheme, gratify every desire of the flesh, Indulge in sin etc. to get you into the kingdom, then God have mercy on you! It's all by His grace and it's only our self righteousness that will keep us out!
didswright 2 months ago
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wwwPyro86com 6 months ago
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I was recently fired as youth and teaching pastor for my belief that Hell is not eternal torment. I wrote a book about my beliefs and what the Scriptures actually teach on the subject. It's coming out soon, you can check out my blog to follow along. I'd love to get the message out to as many people as possible. The book is called "What the Hell" How Did We Get It So Wrong? whatthehellbook . com
alyssafaithbaer 6 months ago
This was The BEST Book That i Have EVER Read! rob Bell Has Clearly Done His Research!
remusnigga 6 months ago
@remusnigga What research? All Bell did was take verses out of context and make them say something God never intended them to say. His book is a total joke. It's amazing how many people are blinded by his deception. Clearly a sign of the times. If you want to see ALL the scriptures Bell uses out of context visit HELLS BELL DOT NET.... and you will have your eyes opened... that is if you like to read scripture in context because you actually care about what God has said.
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
If God's love for us will overcome our fate for all of us to go to heaven then why was the book of revelation written about when God will come back to judge the earth and everyone will be judged for his or her own account. God talks about hell, more in the bible than heaven. so why would you think he would let everyone go to heaven when 100% of the bible is about God telling us HOW to get to heaven. Not that we ARE going to heaven.This isn't a topic we can afford to be wrong about.
Mr217suzuki 7 months ago
@Mr217suzuki Does the bible talk more about Hell than Heaven? You do know that Jesus never actually mentions Hell in the way that we understand it as these people had no concept of an eternal Hell? Furthermore, Revelation is a very complicated book that most theologians understand as referring to the oppressive Roman empire that the early church lived in.
Theolence 6 months ago
Bell's problem is that he doesn't care what the word of God says. It's easy to see. Almost every verse he uses in his book is taken out of context and made to say something God never intended the verse to say. A child could do a better job of reading the Word in Context. If you'd like to read a review that shows Bells errors and the deception behind his work, visit... Hells Bell Dot..... Net
PreachingJesus 7 months ago
@PreachingJesus I think it's very easy to give the generic 'out of context' reply, but what Bell does throughout this book is try to give a very thorough context of these difficult passages. I think he shows very well that there's a lot more texture to biblical theology than the evangelical church on the whole accepts and we should all question why we believe things like "a personal relationship with Jesus saves us" when it isn't written in the Bible.
Theolence 6 months ago
@Theolence Context? Can you show me one verse that Bell uses in context? If you go to my site you will see that I clearly show that Bell has no idea about read scripture in context. His book is the worst form of biblical scholarship I've seen in ages. My 10 year old could read in context better than Bell does in his book! Seriously. Go to my site, read my response and then contact me through the contact page and tell me where I'm wrong. HELLS BELL DOT NET......
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@PreachingJesus That all sounds like a lot of effort; I'll just say it here. Just look at the first chapter. What Bell does is raise the question "how am I saved"? Now there are many responses to this in the NT and so, to put the question in context, Bell mentions them all. By doing so he shows up the common answer of "ask Jesus into your life" (or similar) as being unreflective of what the NT says. This is not bad theological scholarship, it's just not your form of scholarship.
Theolence 6 months ago
@Theolence It shouldn't take you much effort to show me the verse's Bell uses in context if you've read the book. I can list many verse that Bell uses to build his case which are totally taken out of context. Seriously, if Bell learned how to contextualize scripture at Wheaton College, he should ask for his money back. How can you defend Bell's abuse of scripture, his attack on God's character, and the fear he uses in his book against people who believe the bible?
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@PreachingJesus I defend it because I do not believe it is an attack on God's character. I'm sorry, but I don't! There are many different forms of hermeneutics and many different ways to contextualise scripture. I find that a lot the time bible colleges teach a hermeneutic that is too sympathetic to this 'orthodox' evangelical theology. It's nice to see prominent leaders apply a hermeneutic of suspicion to these texts.
Theolence 6 months ago
@Theolence I'm not talking about different forms of hermeneutics. I'm talking about simply reading the bible in context. Something God has enabled even a babe in Christ to do. God did not make things so complicated that it takes a man like Rob Bell to tell us what God really meant...even if it disagrees with the plain meaning of the text! Simple questions for you.. 1 Cor 3:11-17.. is that written for believers or non-believers?
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@PreachingJesus Ok... So this verse is written to the saints in Corinth, but I don't see why that matters as Bell is using it to give a general picture of Heaven. Also, I don't think it helps anyone by you being so disparaging and flippant to say that it's easy to read the bible in context; even a babe (in Christ) can do it. The fact is it is hard to read the bible because it is a compilation of many different peoples work who all had varying opinions. If it wasn't hard we'd have the same view!
Theolence 6 months ago
@Theolence U don't think context matters to God? It's not a general view of heaven. It's a view of judgment for believers. It has nothing to do with non-believers as Bell would mislead us and have us believe. These things are important. BUT, I appreciate you being honest about the text. Most Bell defenders aren't. Couple more questions; who does God give talents to in Luke 19:12-27, his servants or non-believers?
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@Theolence Also, it DOES matter because Bell has propped himself up as a teacher and elder. The scripture says to qualify for this position "one must be able to teach". Bell has CLEARLY shown he is unable to teach as he cannot even get the context of some BASIC passages of scripture. I could understand him misunderstanding some verses in Revelation, but he does destroy the basic meaning of texts that, as I said, even a babe in Christ could understand. Blind leading the blind.
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@PreachingJesus I disagree. I think you need to give him more credit than this. I've enjoyed the conversation though. Gonna send you a friend request; hope to chat more in the future!
MagicJimDavid 6 months ago
Respond to this video... One more for you...Luke 19:12-27.. is Jesus talking to "His servants" or to complete unbelievers?
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
Nice to see someone thinking outside of the box of hierarchy and power and fear, and applying love and logic to this message OF Jesus...not the second-hand message ABOUT Jesus.^^
606Athena 7 months ago
@606Athena Amen
Theolence 6 months ago
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hey everybody check out my channel! just search: jeremypowell86
JeremyPowell86 8 months ago
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Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a man hit the mainstream with a more potent and sensible translation of what Jesus really meant than Bell. This is, for the unmoving Far Right, fundamentalist faction the largest powder keg they could imagine. Bell brings no animosity, no hate, no threat to anyone whatsoever. The only people who perceive him as a threat are those preoccupied more with hierarchy and power than with love. I feel for Bell, though. He will meet great cruelty from his foes.
charadester 8 months ago
Wow. I don't think I've ever seen a man hit the mainstream with a more potent and sensible translation of what Jesus really meant than Bell. This is, for the unmoving Far Right, fundamentalist faction the largest powder keg they could imagine. Bell brings no animosity, no hate, no threat to anyone whatsoever. The only people who perceive him as a threat are those preoccupied more with hierarchy and power than with love. I feel for Bell, though. He will meet great cruelty from his foes.
charadester 8 months ago
This is nothing but a FALSE, CONVENIENT gospel to please the masses and embrace every SIN....We are commanded to love all, and pray for everyone's salvation, but there canNOT be any compromise, I hope these convoluted leaders enjoy their short time of fame, that's what this is all about! Oprah must be his best friend....lolol
Den12tribe 9 months ago
@Den12tribe
Have you read the book?
sapnyosentry 8 months ago
I am VERY encouraged that of all the pastors contacted to comment on Bell for this piece NONE of them would respond until they had a copy of the book for themselves. That is impressive maturity in the face of a LOT of negative (and indeed positive) comments from folk who haven't even read it yet.
thechangingman100 10 months ago 2
Love WILL win. in the Hearts of His Believers.
"Not my will be done, But your will be done."
This is the example we must follow. If we can't do this..
Then His Love is not in us.
awakenedenlightenmnt 10 months ago
I don't mean to be inciting fear. What is wrong with Mormons is they read the bible and somehow got that there are tons of gods, and that Lucifer was Jesus' brother, and when we die we all become Gods. I don't know about you, but when I read the Bible, I don't get that.
Josiahrocco 10 months ago
What I don't understand is this: if you say you are a Christian, aren't you admitting that Jesus Christ paid for your sin, and paid the price on the cross, satisfying God's wrath? Well then, if you then continue to say there is no hell, what was the purpose of Jesus? what did he save us from? If there is no punishment, why must there even be a savior?
HeTotallyJust 10 months ago
@HeTotallyJust ....Hi there, I think you are right to question this, the hell is right here of our own making if we choose to go down that road. Jesus saved me from myself going down a road to hell right here, right now. It is the ways of the world (sin) that put me in hell, not God. I put myself there...and beleive me there is a clear difference when you are there and when you are not.
trishseal 10 months ago
False teaching will rise in these last days for people with itching ears.
williamsfilms1 10 months ago
Rob Bell is our brother in Christ. If you think he's that jacked up then pray for his recovery instead of bashing him on social media. Love thy neighbor.
dickster7000 10 months ago 18
@dickster7000 word.
SHIBBYiPANDA 7 months ago
Oh he's jacked up all right. Jack up on Jesus.
Something of the Father heart for his lost creation and Jesus being the ultimate Saviour of All men has hit his heart. One day everyone will be jacked up on this!
didswright 2 months ago
@dickster7000 Paul urges us in his letters to the Church to teach and correct one another... rob bell is one that needs correction. In the end, when he is corrected love is demonstrated. If I was speaking something incorrect I would want correction... but from those who love me.
theembracedofgod 1 month ago
@dickster7000 loving they nieghbor is guarding the flock from someone that teaches anti Christian ideas...Rob Bell has been called out in regards to his non-Christian teaching and has yet to repent...which means he is to be treated as non-Christian and left alone. We are to preach the Gospel to him, but to protect others from such unorthdox, un Christian teaching such as his. I myself do not regard him as a brother in Christ. Humility is submitting to the Authoratative word of God. :)
chisumproctor 1 week ago
Protestants throw the word "heretic" around very frivolously. In order to be a heretic one must disagree with a fundamental church belief - only in this case - WHICH CHURCH'S BELIEF are we talking about? The Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Church of Christ? Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians? And, for all you "bible-based church" people out there, explain to me how the Holy Spirit can lead each of you - individually - to a different scriptural interpretation???
leb4nb 10 months ago
@leb4nb There is no different interpretation to heaven and hell. In fact, most religions would agree that the human race is messed up. Not everyone chooses God, therefore, they go to hell, they did not repent of there actions, so they get to spend the rest of there lives in hell for punishment for what they did.
Josiahrocco 10 months ago
I heard Rob Bell speak this evening. This is my challenge to my fellow Christians: Read the book before you condemn the message. Is it possible that WE as humans don't get the inside info as to who goes to heaven and who doesn't? If you claim to know (who is saved and who is condemned), you are treading on thin ice. I agree with Rob. GOD is in control, and He decides who spends eternity with him.
subsequentescalator 11 months ago
@subsequentescalator Of course, but Matthew 7:13-14 also says: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Thomas Jefferson believed in Universalism as well. He wrote the whole New Testament again getting rid of any verse that did not agree with his belief that all people go to heaven. He's wrong by the way.
Josiahrocco 10 months ago
@Josiahrocco Where can we get a copy of the NT as revised by Thomas Jefferson?
k0smon 10 months ago
@k0smon I have a copy I got at a garage sale or something. It's the same thing you get if you just read the "red letters" (words of Jesus in a red letter edition of the Bible). Nothing really dramatic but the edit removes much of the miraculous (for which Jefferson was incredulous) and the back story attempting just to capture the moral teachings. Unfortunately by taking quotes out of proper context you can say anything you want and miss the original author's meaning.
alandcoons 8 months ago
@subsequentescalator I see Rob has gotten to you as well. Yes, God is in control...but he did give us an absolute way of knowing who is "in" and who is "out". Sure, we don't know people's hearts. But if they do not confess Jesus as Lord and live according to his Word, they're not going to Heaven. That's what Jesus said, not what anyone else says today..
MiriamKrober 10 months ago
@subsequentescalator @subsequentescalator I see Rob has gotten to you as well. Yes, God is in control...but he did give us an absolute way of knowing who is "in" and who is "out". Sure, we don't know people's hearts. But if they do not confess Jesus as Lord and live according to his Word, they're not going to Heaven. That's what Jesus said, not what anyone else says today..
MiriamKrober 10 months ago
Rob Bell is wrong on his stand point, Christ and scripture that is consistant throughout the bible says very plainly the state of heaven and hell. Christ spoke about this subject many times. Due to accepting salvation it is the only way you obtain Christ and being able to be with him in heaven otherwise, no matter what you do or say, you end up in Hell. As harsh as that is, it is the free will of choice that is very plainly stated in scripture.
TheLordDarkWolf 11 months ago
Dear Modern Day Pharacees: What if Bell is a heratic AND he is right? What if your own orthodox interpretations of scripture were wrong? What if your literalist belief system was based on a convoluted and perverted faith? What if the gnashing of teeth were your own?
prajnasword 11 months ago
@prajnasword I like many of the questions you brought here. I am currently uploading videos as I work through his book in order to add to the discussion. I appreciate your outlook and I see it as very important for someone to allow themselves the opportunity to be wrong as to learn from it.
TheCrescentStudios 11 months ago
I dont know if rob bell is a heretic or not, but to teach that all are saved goes against the plain teaching of Holy scripture and i fully disagree with it because if people are wrong and believe they are going to heaven without needing to have faith in christ, then they could go to hell believing this, and those who teach this doctrine would be partly responsible for the damnation of that persons soul, but if one believes and trusts in Christ for salvation then he will be saved. simple.
RaimaWalters 11 months ago 2
Most Christians are simply ignorant of the fact that over the history of the church there are many good thinkers (even conservative ones) that have had differing views on hell. When someone is bold enough to level the charge of heresy they are tipping there hand and showing how little they really know.
faithandpractice 11 months ago
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Jesus is the only way to eternal life. Hell is the grave. Man is not an immortal being. Check out my article on facebook where I explain this with dozens of Bible versus. Facebook search Bible Insights and God and Eternal Punishment
leonmaiolo 11 months ago
it is my understanding, as an ex christian, that christianity is about power and control. Keeping that in mind, no matter how much “window dressing” people put on the religion/relationship/way of life, christianity is about worshipping some guy named Jesus and if you do not, you will be sorry. So, with that in mind, I believe all of christianity is WRONG, UNSPRITUAL and missing the point. BE YOURSELF
9tailedfoxgoddess 11 months ago
@9tailedfoxgoddess I feel so sorry for you. The truth is that the Bible is the most romantic love story you will ever read. In fact, he loves us so much that a man that had no sin, died for our sin. He took our place, and God just wants you to love him. I would challenge you to read the new testament. Listen to no pastor, and allow yourself to find the true meaning of Christianity. Not following a religion or denominator, but being a follower of Christ.
Josiahrocco 10 months ago
they called Jesus a heretic too...
steverexfg 11 months ago 14
@steverexfg You're ridiculous. If you believe there is no hell, read the Bible. From front to back. You mights as well be a Mormon. What would you say to “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Matthew 7:13-14
Josiahrocco 10 months ago
@Josiahrocco ....geez dude...chill out.....you are inciting fear.....who is the father of fear....hmmm......and What is wrong with Mormons?...you are no christian....and I don't really give a frick.
steverexfg 10 months ago
@steverexfg - what are the exact reasons that 'they' gave for their charge of 'heresy' ?
aerycksmusic 10 months ago
@steverexfg Jesus, yes and Martin Luther, and John Wesley, and the early church was considered a cult. No progress is made in our understanding of God without the defenders of the old order getting all grumpy.
Having said that, what beliefs would you consider heretical?
SmartStr33t 10 months ago
and the Apostle Paul
didswright 2 months ago
they called Jesus a heretic too...
steverexfg 11 months ago
Love does not compute
felyal 11 months ago
Well, i do understand your belifs, i was an elder in a PCA church so i do get 'election". Anyway, we likely are not going to change our minds on this...I wont call you a hereitc :-) But you a free to call me anything you like, we are brothers (really!) in Christ and brothers sometimes resort to name calling, eh?
Jesus died for the sins of the world and He is the only way to salvation. I wish only peace for you.
1macboo 11 months ago
At no time did Adam or any of his descendants eat from "the tree of life to live forever" in fact, they were prevented from doing so!! Eternal life is NOT experienced by all in two different locations. In contrast to Bell, you may wish to take a second look and consider the perspective of Conditional Immortality and perhaps the videos on YOUTUBE by EDWARD FUDGE who does an indepth study on the issue. BTW Nice hyping of the book by HarperOne owned NewsCorp. media outlets.
MARK317th 11 months ago
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MARK317th 11 months ago
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The book of Revelation? Oh please, that's NOT to be read literally, & you KNOW that buthere you go quoting it. Geesh, if ever a book was a mystery & written as metaphor that one was the book! Besides, I never said there is no judgement or that beievers wont be found rightous through Gods grace & Christ's blood....all I am saying is what we know to be true, God wills all to be saved, Gods will be done. Let's not act like the podigals older bro and get all upset at HIS grace. :-)
1macboo 11 months ago
SHALL WE ALL GO DOWN THE BROAD WAY??? The Snake is speaking again, this time speaking through rob bell, you wont die
oh yessss everything will will be alright hisssss, yesss Gods love wont let you burn.
WHAT A LOAD OF TRASH!!!!
0OoJoshuaoO0 11 months ago
The definition of the scripture is the scripture. The greek word for desire in 1 Tim 2:4 is not that which expresses God's will of decree(His eternal purpose), but Gods will of desire. There is a distinction between God's desire and His eternal saving purpose. Like I said you can't use one verse and use it incorrectly. You are being dishonest with all of the other verses that talk about election, choosing etc. Not all will be saved Matt. 7. There are many verses about eternal punishment.
joeforHistruth 11 months ago
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"...our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL PEOPLE, and especially of those who believe." 1Tim 4:10
1macboo 11 months ago
Rob does not represent Christ or His gospel. He is a heretic.
Yes Rob few are saved, read Matthew 7:13-14.
joeforHistruth 11 months ago
@joeforHistruth Everybody goes to heaven...you seem to think that Satan is more powerful thatn God! Satan ,in your view, wins most of the souls, God is weaker and unable to defeat Satan in this battle. How small a god who seem to have. Read 1 Tim 4;10. Jesus is the savour of all.
1macboo 11 months ago
@1macboo "Everbody goes to heaven" What verse from the bible is that?This is not true, not everyone goes.
How from what I said did I hint at saying that I think Satan is more powerful than God? lol
Satan is already defeated, he does what God allows him to do and that's it.
Jesus is the Savior of all believers. No one can come to the Christ unless the Father draws him. God elects, God chooses, this is all over the bible. As Jesus Himself said, "few there be that find it"
joeforHistruth 11 months ago
@joeforHistruth I think we could both find scripture to back our beliefs, You and i agree that evil is defeated, the difference is that i believe God won and you believe ....I guess...that God won but it's a hollow victory as Satan wins almost every soul. BUT "...our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of ALL PEOPLE, and especially of those who believe." 1Tim 4:10 ALL People w/a special relationship w/believers to be sure. Hey, don't fear Grace. God wins...Satan losses...Thats GOOD NEWS!
1macboo 11 months ago
@1macboo You can't pull out a verse and build a theology on it. Context, context. The entire bible makes it clear that all do not go to heaven. Christ is Savior to all who believe, if he was Savior to all people then the ones in hell now wouldn't be there. Universalist teaching is heresy and it presents a different jesus, not the one from scripture. I know God wins, He chooses, He draws, He elects, but not all.
Your god is one you have made, this is idolatry.
joeforHistruth 11 months ago
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1macboo 11 months ago
@1macboo Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
0OoJoshuaoO0 11 months ago
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1macboo 11 months ago
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@0OoJoshuaoO0 The book of Revelation? Oh please, that's NOT to be read literally, & you KNOW that but here you go quoting it. Geesh, if ever a book was a mystery & written as metaphor that one was the book! Besides, I never said there is no judgement or that beievers wont be found rightous through Gods grace & Christ's blood....all I am saying is what we know to be true, God wills all to be saved, Gods will be done. Let's not act like the podigals older bro and get all upset at HIS grace. :-)
1macboo 11 months ago
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@1macboo Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 AND WHOSOEVER WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE WAS CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
0OoJoshuaoO0 11 months ago
@joeforHistruthmost scripture is read out of context or in a literal not metaphorical way. If God elects some to go to hell,and He's OK with this then He can not be the God who is Love (1 jn 4:7) How can he will all be saved but be powerless to have HIS will be done? "God WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Tim. 2:4). And of course, we know, He works ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL (Eph. 1:10-11).
Peace Brother!
1macboo 11 months ago
@1macboo God wil have mercy on whom He will have mercy.(Romans 9:14-24, read it). Read your bible and quit using a verses out of context, the meaning of the scripture is the scripture. It all goes together. It clearly teaches election and hell for unbelievers.
Is God only love??? No. He is also mercuful, gracious, slow to anger, wrathful, a God of vengeance, judgment,justice etc..
It's really humerous how you piece together verses to make your point. Your not being true to the text.
joeforHistruth 11 months ago
@1macboo Take all those verses in context. All the election verses, all of the judgment and hell verses as well. All of the outcome of unbelief verses. Not just the ones you want to make your false heretical claim.
joeforHistruth 11 months ago
@1macboo I agree will you that satan is not more powerful than God. But God will send satan to the lake of fire to burn forever, and God will send all people to the lake of fire that rejected Jesus.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
0OoJoshuaoO0 11 months ago
amossunghopark It's already been reviewed and it needs critizing/critiquing if you're interested in truth and following the bible. I tried to post a link but stupid youtube says error, try again. Go to the white horse inn website and you'll find a review by Lansing Pastor Kevin YOung.
rorshakks 11 months ago
how
rorshakks 11 months ago
Before we prejudge Rob's view on hell, we need to wait until the book comes out. I feel that this is one way to publicize his new book "Love Wins" that is coming out on March 29th. He is a guru when it comes to catching people's attention through short films like his Nooma DVD series. Considering he is a Wheaton College student, I doubt he advocates the no hell theology.
amossunghopark 11 months ago
Very sad when you start questioning and doubting the very words of Christ.
themou2008 11 months ago
no response eh, ChulaKirby?
rorshakks 11 months ago
Rather, the Scriptures teach that all of those who are effectually called and regenerated, are converted, and as a result of God's acting upon them, now exercise faith and repentance. This means that effectual calling and regeneration necessarily issues forth in the exercise of faith.
Thank the Canons of Dort for this wonderful explanation.
rorshakks 11 months ago
This gospel call is sincerely offered to all, but only effectually realized in God’s elect.
Men and women believe in Jesus Christ only because God enables them to do so. Faith is not simply a response by those fallen sinners, who now choose to exercise their free-will and believe, having been enabled to do so by the “prevenient grace” of God, supposedly secured for all by the death of Christ.
rorshakks 11 months ago
I find the teaching of Hell is false teaching sorry I've read the scriptures and have been a believer for years but Hell is a false teaching. people should realy read there history and mythologies of the culture back then. the idea of Hell only came into believe after the rain of Constantine.
maskiavelli 11 months ago
Rob Bell brings a neo-falsehood here,.. I fear that these feel good Guru's are the present threat to the true gospel in that they, just as cultists prey on the weaknesses of the vulnerable with only choice bits of the gospel message. Rob Bell carefully culls from the bible choice bits to feed his own and others emotions. Of course his message doesn't have to be true to attract a following. If it sounds nice and feels nice then its right...RIGHT?. This is the wide path Christ warns of in Matt 7.
1984bornagain 11 months ago
@1984bornagain Oh they're much more dangerous than any atheists or such. Wide path indeed.
rorshakks 11 months ago
God is love. Love respects human freedom and human choices. If someone chooses NOT to be with God for all eternity, God will respect the decision even if it will result in eternal unhappiness also known as eternal damnation. God does not force humans to choose Him or be with Him even though He made man for Himself. He made the angels also with free will. Some rejected Him and asked to be sent away because they hated God. You choose. Your actions are your choice so choose wisely!
ChulaKirby 11 months ago
@ChulaKirby Yes, only other MEN believe that you are damned if you don't believe the way THEY DO!
cool555breeze 11 months ago
@cool555breeze There is truth in what you are saying but it doesn't mean that all are correct and speak truthfully. There must be a group that speaks correctly if the Bible is true because the Holy Spirit was given to one of those groups of men and Paul refers to it as the "pillar and foundation of truth" 1 Tim 3: 15 Therefore the rest must be in error and speaking lies. The question is which body of men speaks for Him? Whom did He tell, "He who hears you, hears me"?
ChulaKirby 11 months ago
“For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world but do save the world” (John 3:17)
People do not fully contemplate or understand the ramifications of believing in a God that allows even the possibility of eternal torment for those He clearly asserts He loves with an unrelenting merciful love clearly portrayed in Jesus Christ – 1 John 4:14 (GW) “We have seen and testify to the fact that the Father sent his Son as the Savior of the world.”
NOT1LOST 1 year ago
Yes I believe it is not a doctrine any longer but a bizarrely preferred sickness among the leading theologians, pastors, and bible teachers “For God has not given us the spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind - Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.” (2Ti 1:7,13)
NOT1LOST 1 year ago
Now it seems It must be some sort of sadistic mental illness; because you cannot reason with someone wanting to prove the warped traditional version of GOD'S judgment. These proponents of eternal torture will not listen to sound words or judgment with any sort of common sense at all. Only the blank stair of madmen returning a strange mix of words of confusion and misinterpretation with total evasion and prevarication of the subject.
NOT1LOST 1 year ago
The word "Hell" as it is understood today, is the most destructive, disparaging, reproachful, derogatory, insulting, belittling word known to mankind associated with the character and nature of GOD our loving Father and Savior. I used to think it was just a mistaken understanding of the original language of the bible. Now, after speaking with and corresponding in various ways with many people on this topic; I have concluded that it is much worse than I had thought. They are plainly denying truth
NOT1LOST 1 year ago
It is disgusting to hear people put God on trial, as if He would be awful to put a rebel in hell. The one who is awful, is the one who REJECTS God's work for him. Man is to blame for his own destiny. The gospel is "unto ALL, but only UPON all who believe (on Jesus)". There is not a universal unconditional salvation. The sad thing is, man will still blame God when he is in hell, cursing God as he did while he was on the earth. Hell still not change his dark, dark heart that is black with sin!
paulfearnot 1 year ago
It's wonderful to see Bell stepping up to the plate on this one: hell. I hope he continues to raise the bar of Bible literacy and question....
theNewCovenantGroup 1 year ago
Rob Bell is right. Jesus is the savior of the whole world.
Hell is a myth. Jesus never spoke about hell. The bible never does either.
All you have to do is study this & you'll find it out for yourself.
God didn't make a hell, knowing that billions of souls would end up there, being burned alive forever. If God did that, then God is evil.
People who want to be in an elite group of special people are no different then Pharisees. Get over yourselves. You're not special, but you are loved.
Lightmane321 1 year ago
@Lightmane321 You mean people have to spend all eternity with Jesus and in heaven even if they don't want to be there? You are so mean and evil to condemn devil worshippers to heaven and the light. Shame on you! What God of a God would force someone against their will for all eternity to be with Him if they didn't want to. That would be a dictator. You are so hateful and mean to force people to heaven! Love means respecting the other's wishes and choices.
ChulaKirby 1 year ago
@ChulaKirby "What kind of a God would force someone against their will for all eternity to be with Him if they didn't want to."
What you choose in life, He respects at death. Be careful what you choose because many people think they have control of when they die and think they can change their decision. God might respect for all eternity what your choice is today. The devil and the demons rejected Him and He gave them what they chose: Darkness and eternal separation from Him.
ChulaKirby 1 year ago
@ChulaKirby ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!
Lightmane321 1 year ago
Watch how Rob relates good works in relationship with going to heaven. He uses Gandhi as a example. He basically says read between the lines on what I am saying to you. If Gandhi went to hell then there must be only a few people in heaven!!?!?! Well, if you read the Bible and live by the words that Jesus proclaimed, John 14:6 "Jesus {ANSWERED}, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Rob someone already asked the question, now accept the answer!
Pedal2Floor84 1 year ago
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Why do I relate the very essence of ignorance associated with these questions? Don't get me wrong questions pose a necessity to one building a stronger faith and a closer relationship with God, but one who asks questions only to ponder and become self sufficient with creating the answers to these very questions can not stand. A man made equation/solution can not hold weight amongst God's word. Rob circles his "career" if you will call it around one thing, and that is his interpretation.
Pedal2Floor84 1 year ago
I find it funny that people label Rob as a "heretic" based on a 2 minute video without even reading the book and probably never reading any of his other books or listening to him speak. I go to Mars Hill and I've never been to a church that digs so deeply into the Word. It's really easy to make quick judgements about a person based on a promo video or what critics say, but try to take a first hand look at what Rob is actually saying before you write him off as the anti-Christ.
amyisawinneratlife 1 year ago
@amyisawinneratlife I agree. It is a two minute video. I mean, for my money it's good advertising. he has only asked questions and people are making it out to be that those questions are his answers. For all I know/don't know (based on the video), is that he could answer "yes, there is a hell and only a few will make it." I haven't read enough of his stuff and I don't know him personally, so I cannot even think to judge his heart. I haven't read any comments yet by those who have read the book.
timthetenor 1 year ago
@timthetenor FINALLY a sane comment in all of this :)
moneyshotdre 1 year ago
Rob Bell is dangerous, he and the rest of these emergent pastors are leading thousands, if not millions to hell.
1776iscoming 1 year ago
@1776iscoming If he is right then everyone is in hell. By definition, heaven is all eternity united in union with the All Loving God. And Hell is eternal separation from the All Loving God. If God does not give us the freedom to choose between Him and not Him, then He doesn't respect us. If He doesn't respect us then He doesn't love us. If He doesn't love us then we could never be in union for all eternity with the All Loving God because He would not be loving at all but a dictator. HELL
ChulaKirby 1 year ago
@ChulaKirby
You lost me. You said that God doesn't give us the freedom to choose between Him and not Him? How can you say that when the scripture tells us that those who choose not to repent and accept His son as the atonement for our sins, will not enter heaven? We have free will to accept Him or deny Him. I'm not sure why you believe that we don't?
1776iscoming 1 year ago
@1776iscoming I believe God does give us freedom. If He didn't then there would be no heaven because if God didn't give us the freedom to not choose him then we would be forced to be with Him. In classic Christian definition "heaven" is being united to the All Lovong God (who is love itself) for all eternity. Hell is eternal separation from the All Loving God for all eternity. That if the chief pain of hell suffered by the damn. If a pastor says God doesn't let us not choose then .........
ChulaKirby 11 months ago
If God doesn't let us not choose Him then we cannot love Him freely and he isn't loving us because he is forcing Himself on us. That is NOT love nor a loving God. That would mean god is not a loving God and if we are forced to spend all eternity with a God who doesn't love us that is not heaven but HELL.
I meant to say "Loving" instead of "Lovong" and "That is" instead of "That if" in the post above.
ChulaKirby 11 months ago
@ChulaKirby Do you listen to the Bible Answer Man?
rorshakks 11 months ago
There is no God. Don't be silly and believe in Hell.
ClockFaceOrange 1 year ago
@ClockFaceOrange No need to believe in 'hell', friend...as long as there are those whom only seek to append thier own self-centered means and selfish desires, then they help perpetuate 'hell on earth'. It's up to each and every single one of us to decide whether or not we wish futher the human condition, or accelerate it's ruin...rather a simple choice, actually...
M.D. - A.D.
mdlittle5466 1 year ago
there are no Christian Universalists....there are Universalists...but they are not Christians !!
icthus2010 1 year ago
Gods word is foolishness to those who are perishing....You are perishing if you have not believed in Christ as your Lord and savior...its that simple....Soooo..just believe and trust in the Lord and you will be saved for all eternity.
icthus2010 1 year ago
Rob Bell is just another heretic and false teacher...ignore his spiritual dillusiion and stand up for the truth of Gods word ... his written...true...litteral...inerrant word.
icthus2010 1 year ago
Jesus did accomplish the mission that God sent him here for...He saved us...now we just have to choose to be saved...its up to us...because God created us with a free will to choose hiim or not to choose him. Yes Bells book is heresy and false teaching. There is a hell...and right now as we speak there are people suffering in hell for eternity...until God burns up hell and all in it !! Read your bible people,.He is a Just and merciful God,.Jesus Loves you and only through him your saved.
icthus2010 1 year ago
Rob bell fails to read his bible, like Matthew 7.
Shoots1978 1 year ago
O, how I do love the clashes of conflicting theological sophisms. It's always an entertaining spectacle when two or more equally unsubstantiated assertions of varying degree of speciousness collide.
UserNameForYeeTube 1 year ago
Isn't it odd that a person gets condemned as a heretic for believing that Jesus Christ was actually able to accomplish what he came here to do. Christian theology is the intricately detailed explanation of why Jesus wasn't able to accomplish His mission to save the world. Obviously making man's will to reject God more powerful than God's will to save Him. That's not heresy it's anti-christ
tbone6735 1 year ago
Provocation as a teaching tool often makes reading into assumptions very easy to do. It also helps sell books and grab attention. :) Hopefully, in doing so, it will help us all to think deeper and act on the important matters of faith (without necessarily having to agree on everything).
Rangerdavie 1 year ago
@Macboo1 what does Romans 3:23-24 Romans 6:23, John 3:16-17 mean to you?? (just to name a few...) God sent His son Jesus todie for our sins and by Hhis grace we are saved....not by works or by people....but thru Christ Jesus....Im no scholar but that is Bibical Truth. its the path that is sometimes hard but the rewards are everlasting.....
keu143146 1 year ago
I think it's necessary to read this book without any presuppositions, but still in a way skeptical. Maybe universialism is true, maybe it's not. Maybe he's not even a universalist. We should probably read the book first before sending rob bell to hell. i'm really interested to read it.
iamsomebodysomewhere 1 year ago
As a christian universalist (and i believe there are more of us than people think) I am excited and pleased to hear of Bell's new book. Universalism IS biblical and perhaps now we can have the discussion. I imagine some of ya'll are looking for green wood though.
1macboo 1 year ago
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@1macboo Really? Can you support this idea with scripture?
MaharlikaAWA 1 year ago
If this isn't universalism, I don't know what is.
Superbee4401 1 year ago
@Superbee4401 let's wait on this, brother. i don't think this is universalism( yet at least). i'd call it just damn annoying. he's merely asking deep questions about heaven and hell. the only indication of universalism is his "love wins" statement. love can mean a lot of things though. just look in this culture, we simply cannot tell. so let's wait and save our accusations but definitely be on our guard and warn others. God will be glorified regardless. we will be more mindful of heresies.
nantapatt 1 year ago