The Power of Nightmares Part 3 - The Shadows in the Cave

[amb3rluvzyah]

Don't Panic.

[thewotsit]

Thick blocks of text can only mean one thing...I've stumbled into the political arena.

[faraway109]

This program was aired in GB in late 2004. In this part3, it ridicules the threat of a terror attack on London as "a fantasy that swept through the media", and a means for Blair to "portray a new grand vision of the future". And then, just when this film had been shown in Cannes in Spring 2005, came the London bombing of July 7th 2005. After that, the BBC got disciplined. See any causal link? If you don't, take a look at the "7/7 Ripple Effect" video.

[enlightened1ish]

So now we have all this security in the form of the Patriot Act, TSA, on and on, from a neo-con wet dream? A fantasy?

[Looter246]

Finally, there have been terror attacks and terror plots in the UK since 9/11. Burke asked in his book: "Should I genuinely be frightened of bombs on the London underground?" This was, of course, before the 7-7 attacks.

Th third installment of TPON is only a compelling argument if you're ignorant of the events that have taken place since 9/11.

[jfunkfinger69]

@Looter246 7-7 attacks were also a set up, same as 9/11, probably Mossad again...

[Looter246]

Another misleading statement @ 35:52 The group in Virginia was doing more than just paintballing. They attended terror training camps in Pakistan, they purchased and trained with Kalashnikov-type rifles at ranges in the US. I've read the indictment.

I suggest anyone who watches this film research the claims made within it, Not just accept them at face value.

[Looter246]

An example of how this documentary dates itself and has been proven wrong: at 27:00 There have been numerous terror plots, and some attacks inside of the US, since 9/11. Including the Ft. Hood shooting, Christmas Day bomb plot, Times Square bomb plot, the plot to destroy cargo planes, and the liquid bomb plot to destroy airliners over the Atlantic. In some instances, the plotters had contact with Anwar al Awlaki, chief recruiter for AQ's franchise in the Arabian Peninsula. 

[jfunkfinger69]

@Looter246 Al Qaeda is a CIA created, funded and trained operation, same as the Mujahadeen. Brzezinski and the Zionists again and again...

[Looter246]

@jfunkfinger69 That makes a good story but, the one thing the CIA and al Qaeda can seem to agree on is that they had no relationship. Osama came from an extremely wealthy Saudi family. He had no reason to accept funds from the CIA.

[jfunkfinger69]

@Looter246 Al Qaeda is the CIAs creation and thats why they can agree, because they are one and the same. Bin Laden was disowned by his family so he did not receive funding from them but he was funded by the CIA when he was with the Mujahadeen fighting the Russians in Afghanistan.

[Looter246]

@jfunkfinger69 There was the Afghan mujahideen and there was a much smaller Arab contingent, during the Soviet occupation. The CIA armed the Afghans. OBL had his own wealth, purchased his own weapons. And there is only really one battle that OBL has been documented as participating in during the Soviet Jihad, so "Osama fighting the Russians" is largely a myth.

[jfunkfinger69]

@Looter246 Interesting, where did you source this information ?

[Looter246]

@jfunkfinger69 There are many well-researched books on the subject. "Ghost Wars" by Steve Coll comes to mind.Or books by Peter Bergen. And interviews with Milt Bearden, who was the CIA station chief in Pakistan during the 80's.

[jfunkfinger69]

@Looter246 Well we can safely say that the guy who worked for the CIA isnt really going to be impartial but I shall try and find some info from the other 2 thanks.

[stazzou]

this is just sad...

[MatthewBissonnette88]

Though the terrorists may not have the power to destroy the free world, they can bamboozle our leaders into doing it for them. For every terrorist act committed, the more freedoms and civil liberties we lose as a result. Many tyrannical regimes from the beginning of time said that they wanted absolute power to protect the populace, but then used that power to oppress and destroy their own citizens. Does starting numerous wars across the middle east make us safer? Or does it ensure terrorism?

[Looter246]

We have seen attacks carried out by groups using the cellular structure since 9/11, so this film is obviously a little dated and the film makers and toolbag Mr. Burke have been proved wrong on that account.

[Looter246]

Saying "al Qaeda doesn't exist" is a misleading and sensationalist thing to say. No one is denying that Bin Laden/Zawahiri started a loose organization of radical Islamists. Most conspiracy theories are based on flawed assertions such as this.

This final third of the series is where I begin to disagree with the film makers.

[kalifire]

@Looter246 Why do you think it's misleading and sensationalist to suggest that al Qaeda doesn't exist? I thought the argument was quite powerfully made in this series.

[Looter246]

@kalifire Because, by his own statements, and based on what most experts say, Osama Bin Laden was privy to the planning of the 1998 Africa bombings. And the organization that he created when he merged his group with Zawahiri's Egyptian Islamic Jihad aided the planners of the 9/11 attacks.

AQ as an organization does exist In fact, it has spawned franchises of sorts in places like Yemen and Somalia.

[kalifire]

@Looter246 This documentary accounts for that Bin Laden's prior knowledge, but suggests his 'organisation' was a pre-existing network of disenfranchised militants with no central network or structure, no 'sleeper cells' or anything else our governments lie to us about to keep us suitable afraid.

[Looter246]

@kalifire Centrally-structured and cellular networks are actually two different things. But officials in the UK have uncovered and disrupted a terror or "sleeper" cell that was preparing to carry out the liquid bomb plot to destroy airliners on trans-atlantic flights.

The evidence suggests there was an organization, headed by Bin Laden. You cab argue about what degree of organization there was, but to say AQ doesn't exist is a false statement, IMO.

[kalifire]

@Looter246 Ok, fine, Let's avoid this becoming a typical YouTube battle of unsubstantiated and hysterical opposing positions (not that I'm accusing you of that) and start with the evidence you have cited that 'suggests' there was an organisation headed by Bin Laden. What is that evidence, exactly?

[Looter246]

@kalifire For starters, the 100+ flash drives full of communications between OBL and his lieutenants that were seized when he was killed. Communiques from Bin Laden urging AQ operatives to stay focused on "spectacular" attacks, etc.

This documentary is interesting, but once they bring in Jason Burke I think it really comes off the rails. I think Burke makes too big of a deal out of the fact that the FBI was inclined to treat AQ like the mafia. Fact is, this doc is now dated, incorrect

[baldmancrazy]

So first [they] say there is a sophisticated base and a great firefight with RPGs taking down a helicopter, al-Qaeda fighters shooting out with SEALs, and bin Laden grabbing a woman as a human shield only to be valiantly brought down by superior US marksmanship.

In reality, the helicopter malfunctioned and crashed due to American incompetence, there were in fact just babies and women in the compound, and bin Laden was unarmed and shot at point blank range in his pajamas.

[stap0510]

Another piece of leftwing propaganda.

[susu666]

@stap0510 another piece of paradigm effected lemming (you)

[stap0510]

@susu666

Sorry that the obvious truth hurts so much.

And it is somewhat hypocritical calling me a lemming as a occupy-lemming yourself.

And off you go with your left-wing propaganda.

[MrOldskoolboy]

Great docus, great job posting them, Thank you.

[EmmittBrownBTTF1]

@dumalucky History is often a comedy of errors among competing agendas. Osama unwittingly plays into the neo-con fantasy. The Taliban are still a problem especially for pakistan and Afghanistan. The inside job hypothesis is not supported, in fact this doco makes no suggestion in that direction.

[TheRacistsMustDie]

Bit of a pessimistic note at the end I must say. Mr. Curtis doesn't really seem to know himself what to do next; not that he's obliged to or anything, but that's just something that struck me.

[343TheSentient]

Okay, this is great and all but they forgot to include that Sadam Hussien did indeed hide in a hole underground. Loved the music by the way, anyone know the name of the Battlefield 3-like theme at the beginning?

[FalseFlag369]

This is so Orwellian! Arresting someone for something they might do, rather than for something they have done. This is taking the "preemptive strike" idea down to the "Nth" level. The greatest threat is not what Islamic terrorists might do, but what the superpower U.S. and its allies (Britain etc.) might do. This is so much like a nightmare that I want to awaken from. Was the collapse of Building 7 simply an illusion? Extraordinary Rendition, torture, all an illusion?

[TheWamlad]

Please put an end to household Bills I hate Bills I'm forever paying Bills never seems to end with the same one when paid them and I never able to save up properly cause of them do that instead of being desctructive. I wish there no such thing as I Bills in the first place then we wouldn't be all this in this mess. Who ever thought of Bills needs their head examined I hope it collapses then we won't have to pay Bills anymore.

[mrjacksevern]

Does anyone know what the piece of music is at 00.47?

[TVScio]

@helenasophiahi blah blah blah... Quit being an alarmist. You'll have your time december 2012 and it'll end jan 1st 2013...til then, do something or stfu.

I'm tired of these pretentious nerd bags with lingo learned from alex jones thinking they're informed. Good for you, you're just as brain washed as every one else..Only we don't pretend we're saved... Now go watch noam chomsky you tool.

[syro666]

@TVScio HA I love when stupid people like yourself that be-leaves everything on mainstream media must be true cause the TV never lies. You my friend are the brainwashed one when faced with the fact of reality of the world we live in is not what you think you immediately attack the person claiming that they are retarded conspiracy theorist. When did questioning alleged facts become a crime? You have been brainwashed to hate anyone who questions the norm. Its quite sad really

[TVScio]

@syro666 Maybe you'll stir yourself right into paranoid schizophrenia with that bs.

I never once said the government or the system was on our side. You're the one who's been brainwashed by youtube videos you goon. Why don't you stop making less assumptions, and gather more information moron. Go take your anti-psychotics. You're not righteous.

To busy acting like a paranoid fool to form a reasonable thought. Hence why you're atking random people on youtube over assumptions. Douche.

[syro666]

@TVScio Yes I guess direct testimony from people who were in these focus groups saying soviet union was crumbling and that there was no evidence of any kind of military build up is just make believe? and I am the paranoid schizo? quite the opposite I am not under the governments spell of the "great terrorist threat".

[TVScio]

@syro666 You enlightened being, how dost thou reach such a pinnacle of consciousness.

I'ma guess by the 666 you're a 15 yr old sitting in a dark room in your moms house, listening to marilyn manson, thinking you've got the world figured.

lol I'll leave it at that since you seem to be arguing with yourself, I have fking clue what you're talking about. Nor do I care.

[syro666]

@TVScio Of course like most fucking sheep when confronted with the fact you resort to insults and name calling instead of making your own points to prove me wrong. HA obviously what I am saying is too far out of your league for you to comprehend, just keep watching your BBC and CNN and maybe they can get you to support another invasion idiot.

[TVScio]

@syro666 when no one understands your paranoid ranting about lord knows what...it's not because what you're saying is out of their league...it's because you're off your anti-psychotics again.

And I didn't resort to insults, only assumptions...which is what you base everything you know off of. So quit being a hypocrite, douche.

[syro666]

@TVScio Did you even watch the documentary? I'm am not stating I am out of "there" league (I don't know who you are referring too) I am stating what I said is out of your league. Your obviously one of the stupid sheep that believes the status quo and anyone who questions it is stupid and schizo. That is what they taught you they manipulate stupid people such as yourself that when a person like me questions authority you yourself take it as a direct shot, If were all wrong why do you care

[syro666]

@TVScio Why don't you do something other than trolling people valid comments. I guess actual evidence is just not enough for you. Lets see what other names you can call me without bringing up any valid points for your argument. Typical Conservative let me guess you would have voted for Bush a third time if it weren't for those pesky laws that keep people in power from establishing a fascist government. Then you could just shoot whoever did not agree with you right?

[fancystarh]

the movies is great but regarding sep11 how come that fanatic al qaada that never existed had technology to attack US? it makes no sense & not even by the leaders Osama nor Zawahri but by another simple person !! other series explain that the sep11 attacks were made by the neo-cons them selves watch : New American Century documentary

[AndrewKH85]

This was a good watch, but a bit naive... This documentary series give the impression that a single, partisan group is responsible for the demise of the country. Its not a delusion one group shares, its a international goal that different groups want to achieve in different ways,which is where the political, social and national roles come into play. Rich people arent satisfied playing chess on a chess board.

[Hauntedscotland]

@helenasophiahi I am German, and Germans of today crave equality and peace in the world, because of their past. Can you imagine what it feels like to me to see all this....?

[2001Horatio]

All seems harmless enough.. but the police in the US are now acting like Nazis and we all have to get our nuts felt every time we go to an airport. Free America is finished.

[2001Horatio]

Didn't you just LOVE those cut away diagrams of Bin Laden's mountain retreats... like the baddie in a James Bond movie... so pathetic... and NOTE the obsequious playing along of US TV's "Talking Heads" - really is there ANY point in watching US TV? No

[2001Horatio]

It IS a fight between "Good" and "Evil" but which side is the "Good" - it's not as obvious as it seems

[2001Horatio]

More than any other people on Earth... Americans live in the Matrix. If you don't believe me.. go and live there for a few years. The Matrix is so pervasive you can almost SEE it, superimposed on what passes for reality there.

[livingmartyr1]

shaykh osama even said in an interview it was america that gave him the name al qaeda. he said that he was just a muslim apart of the ummah.

[tlowndes2]

@zlovering "There is also virtually no funding for a researcher wanting to disprove the current climate change theories" Which theories? The climate skeptics or the climate scientists ones?

[CruelSculpture]

@tlowndes2 The current theories on climate change has become so bastardized and terrifying that there is no longer a unified climate change theory to challenge. The words have become such that even their mention invokes thoughts of polar ice caps and desertification in the rain forests and that anyone who challenges the small bits (say the impact of nuclear energy) of it is essentially challenging the whole and is targeted as such.

[Azzenstudent]

@zlovering Your theory is right-wing conspiracy mongering. Any evidence that any professor was denied funding? No. You simply repeat the talking points of Big Oil and consider yourself "open-minded".

[Azzenstudent]

@zlovering Please. Conservatism has nothing to do with being credulous. Science is probably a better guide to reality than disinformation campaigns from self-interested economic sectors. Nor does science take a role in Big Government vs Not-So-Big Government debates. That's just another aspect of the astonishing reliance on conspiracy theories that informs zealots like yourself. Since you have no evidence, you simply assert twaddle as a substitute for reasoned argument.

[Azzenstudent]

@zlovering Okay, another comment, another conspiracy theory. How do you "know" that science is used to increase the role of big government? And how "massive" is government spending on the environment? Do you think it matches the subsidies that government gives to Big Oil? That would be Big Government I assume you approve of. But since it's nothing more than right-wing talking points you're typing, why even bother caring if something is true or not. Conservatives right! Liberals wrong! You win.

[Azzenstudent]

@zlovering Actually, zlovering, I don't make a habit of believing things absent solid evidence. Climate change, for example, has solid evidence behind it (say, atmospheric physics). Its denial has essentially no evidence besides the conspiracy theories you hold in such high regard. This is the epistemological standard on the right now: if you believe something fervently, it must be true. That's why so many wingnuts are also fundamentalists.

[Azzenstudent]

@zlovering You are too uneducated to even distinguish between your science-denying belief system and the economic interests that benefit from your ignorance. It's not a crime to be naive, but at a minimum, you should be skeptical about the motives of these interests. You are like a child in this respect. You believe outlandish conspiracy theories about scientists yet think huge economic interests would never lie. Really, you wingnuts are amazing.

[Azzenstudent]

@zlovering Look, it's very easy to believe Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Reilly. They make everything seem very simple. Science is not simple. It's rigorous and complex. So, why do you believe science deniers? Could it be because you prefer simpleminded bromides to something much more difficult? I'll say it again: the epistemological standards on the right are embarrassingly low. You don't know science yourself but you're convinced of its evil motives. This is conspiracy theorizing.

[g1a1r1y3]

@Azzenstudent

Thomas Kida's "Don't Believe Everything You Think: The 6 Basic Mistakes We Make in Thinking" is an excellent book that explains this type of thinking in wonderful fashion. Yeah, the politics of fear work, and to me, this says less about governments and more about the people who elect them.

[TVScio]

@Azzenstudent Just cause science was your favorite subject in grade school...doesn't make you a scientist. Stop fronting like you're watching youtube vids from your laboratory dexter...

[Azzenstudent]

@TVScio I am not a scientist nor did I claim to be one. I simply defend it against Know Nothing, zealots, right-wing assholes, and stooges for Big Oil. This shouldn't be a political debate but since anti-science right-wingers have intruded into the arena of science in order to vandalize it, we have no choice but to fight back.

[Azzenstudent]

@TVScio Your first mistake: "Obummere" is not a liberal. He gets involved in wars precisely because he's just another tool of the oligarchy. Ditto Bill and Hillary. In order to free yourself from the talk-radio twaddle where D = evil liberal and R = saintly conservative, you have to think outside the box. That you will not do because the box keeps you enthralled with simple-minded dramas. It's how the oligarchy controls you.

[miazagora]

@Azzenstudent It's not just "the right" - it's "the left" as well. Look at all the extra military conflicts (wars) Obummer has gotten us involved in. Look at Hillary Clinton. Look at what Bill Clinton did during his Presidency - bombing a medicine factory, which was not mentioned in this video series. Don't just blame "the right" - it's both.

[Peaceoo8]

That part of the cave was hilarious, had me in stitches.

[dezmundo1251]

32:34 never mind that the convictions were overturned....the amazing thing is that they were convicted at all!

[hobogasm]

@zlovering i dont see your problem with the way this is structured at all. @ 27:18 for example a professor of law states that these people were being accused of something with no concrete evidence. i think he is qualified to say that. it then goes on to show us this evidence so we can make up our own mind. If you think about all the lies they were saying about HOW they took down osama, when the KNEW it wasn't true, its easy to see the extent the U.S government will go for good PR on this.

[toweronepower]

46:48 Man second from left is scared of Saddam catching him looking at him.

[uqiimu]

Really think that this documentary is very interesting as well as informative. Unfortunately , there's too much music. I'm trying to digest information, and at the same time filtering out the music rubbish. It's like trying to eat a delicious salad with lots of dirt particles still remaining on the lettuce!

[jackjude]

@uqiimu ...I like the often unhinged music as well as the offbeat humour - you may want eat a salad but this isn't raw documentary. It contains a lot of Adam Curtis's personality, tastes, and often debatable views - very interesting though

[toutdroitreserve]

@uqiimu the music tends to cover the voice over. Yet, the selection is interesting and forms part of the underlying message of the documentary. for instance the most recurrent piece is by E. Morricone and entitled "investigation of a citizen above suspicion." It is the soundtrack a 1970 italian movie portraying a cynical murderer who no matter how many pieces of evidence he deliberately leaves behind, will never get caught because of his status of chief police officer.

[Servant2All]

TFTD (Thought For The Day) - Perception is REALITY! (to the perceiver)

Thanks. Watching now. Downloaded the series at archive.org and was about to upload it and did a search first. That damn Adam Curtis is a "pistol"!

Between this series and his "Century of the Self" series, all Americans should have a deeper meaning of Bro. Malik Shabazz's - aka Malcolm Little, aka Malcolm X's - words: "I say you've been had. You've been took. You've been hoodwinked, bamboozled, run amok, and led astray".

[WORLDARYANREVIVAL]

the English swear their shit dont stink!

didnt they refer to themselves as the EMPIRE! didnt they colonize half the globe for 100 years!

i think we all need to remember that!

and that for a long time up to the late 70 s it was england that the world despised and not the U.S. enuff wit the radical islam shit theres no such thing! they were radical from the start! that whole islamic terrorist shit started because of england!

did everyone forget that PALESTINE was a country created by the BRITS!?

[JimDownWell]

@WORLDARYANREVIVAL - the English swear their shit dont stink!

Are you are referring to the English or the British?

-didnt they refer to themselves as the EMPIRE!

No, they referred to the Empire as the Empire. England was still England, a nation in the United Kingdom.

- and that for a long ... because of england!

I have no idea what you're saying, but I understand it's always difficult for people to comment in a foreign language other than their mother tongue so I will not complain.

[TheSeaMyst]

Obama is just as guilty as bush for letting this thing go on he is just as guilty as bush one and two for starting the new world order that has been attacking other land's without any cause we the people must demand these people be brought to justice all of them conda lisa rice general betrayus and all the other people who lied about the weapons of mass destruction, that they than laughed about owe those bombs over there! 'These brazen killers in my country all need brought to justice now!

[TheSeaMyst]

This all started because of the league of nations new world order, Bush one run's they are the criminals that enrage other countries, these criminals need to be charged with crimes against humanity! 'Now or these sick devil', people will make others mad at our country, and the whole world will soon hate our country! the united states of, 'America It's these criminals that need brought to justice 'Bush is a killer he will kill again! 'Unless we charge him now for this!

[GorgonLuvs8008135]

They americans are also pumping up the capabilities of Anonymous like pumped up Al qaeda.