Retribution is the purpose of the criminal justice system. We must torture terrorists for information. Individual rights not collective rights. Ayn Rand even said selfishness is a virtue. War is the state of man.
Force them to work with regular beatings. Don't pay these slaves. Spit on them. Don't respect them. They violated the Constitution they are not entitled to it's protections. Cruel and unusual punishment is not subjecting them to torture. They have no showers.
@ToxicOdiousOne Judgment via the court system is different than "judge not, lest ye be judged." At times we need to step in, help someone stop hurting others by giving them a little "time out," and give them an education.
How can we teach people not to hurt others by punishing them? Prison should be a place of time out, redirection, and education ... to teach prisoners of fear the sanctity of life through reminding them that they are sacred, also.
Why do we waste money on prison food? What let prisoners get obese? Let prisoners starve in their own excrement. Jail is supposed to be unhygenic. It's supposed to be crawling with disease and bugs.
Hmmmm Starting to figure out why the CIA won't come clean about what happened? They are neck deep in it. Hiding their asses is not a matter of "National Security", and the fact that they even make the argument clarifies just how corrupt they have become.
The filthy neo-con NAZI war criminal Cheney dog and his crime partner Bush should be put on trial for war crime against humanity and EXECUTED by hanging.
Just because I believe we need some laws and a common sense measure of regulation which requires government, does not mean I'm a Communist. We certainly may disagree about the scope of government, but that does not mean that we have to put each other on slippery slopes. I do not assume you are a bomb-shelter cowaring militia type, just because you want to limit the scope of govt.
We have a system in place to correct for government mistakes and abuse; when are we going to use it? It's time for the states to call for a continental congress.
The term torture evokes strong emotions. The term is rather broad, and I would consider any situation in which physical or mental distress is used to coerce information out of someone to be torture.
Well, what do you mean by distress? forms of coercion by police happen every day in order to sort through a case. A prosecutor that threatens to "throw the book" at someone if they don't cooperate could be called distress; but it's a valid form of criminal justice that has to be used to solve crimes and find justice.
Now, if you consider mental distress to be some form of permanent, debilitating psychological torment, then I'm with you.
I agree in theory that we need to look at each case and judge them by the circumstance... but in practice, there is too often the temptation to generalize or take shortcuts. Plus, what do we judge them by? Utilitarian affectations? What does the most good for the most people?
I guess I'm a bit of a cynic, in that I don't think there's ever going to be a perfect system. Perhaps the strive towards perfection is a virtue in and of itself. At least that way we don't become complete nihilists.
I think an important criteria is the ability of the person under duress to stop it.
In the case of police interrogation, the person being interrogated [if not under arrest] can get up and walk away at any time. If the person is under arrest, then you have the right to shut your mouth and ask to see a lawyer.
This is strikingly different than the person who is tied to a chair, naked, under bright lights with no ability to stop the interrogation.
If Obama blocks this stuff from being investigated, quite frankly, he's part of the problem.
I don't care who goes down with the investigation, be it the CIA, Republicans, Democrats, current or former administration. These people are NOT above the law.
The US needs to shake these people out and set a precedent so it never happens again.
Well, by that definition someone out there is entitled to torture you. You are probably the right person for someone to torture. "The right people" can be anyone by definition, so you are advocating that it MIGHT be right of your enemies to torture YOU, if only they define it right.
I hate that the govt. tortured people. It's messed up. Waterboarding is horrible. And I'm betting more went on.
But let's be realistic. Mocking a superstition? Running around with your arms out? Putting someone in a box with a caterpillar? Sleep deprivation? You can argue that they most likely didn't accomplish anything, and I'll agree... but I'm not gonna call that torture.
Hundreds of people weren't tortured to death with these mundane things you listed. Much more went on than your examples. Do you not watch the news or do you only watch faux news?
Honestly, I loathe all the television news outlets, including Democracy Now. They stopped being objective long, long ago. Now it's all either partisan or infotainment.
Having said that, I never read any report that hundreds were tortured to death by the government. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but I'd like to see some sources on that.
This is bull shit.... Why are there no investigations being done on the people who did this? Just more proof that republicans are pious, self righteous, blood thirsty, ass holes.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
"Democracy Now"? What a MF joke. These are the people that are destroying America, not the Muslim extremist. I may not like Bush but I hate these kind of assholes even more. These are the kind of bastards that got so many of us killed in Vietnam with that same anti-American bull shit. The do-gooders that think they know what's best for everyone else and proceed to give away all our freedoms and support our enemies.
The vietnam war was anti-american and many soldiers agreed with it once they got out.
I cant believe anybody today is still pro-vietnam war.
It was horrific what our soldiers did there to win, and we were right to protest it and while the way we treated soldiers coming back was wrong as they were "following orders and winning battles they were told to win" but it was the actions of our military and being there period that got our people killed, not protesters.
Your giving away your freedoms by supporting torture.
Torture is un-american, tell me of a super hero that supports torture?
Superman? Truth Justice and the american way, but no torture. Our heroes don't support torture. We all know torture failed during the inquisition, and the witch trials of salem and other places.
So it does not work, and its wrong. But its un-american to fight it? LOL what america were you born in?
1. Uh...you can love America, but love the way an adult loves. An adult will love something, yet recognize areas of improvement. By questioning our government constructively, we can improve America.
2. "Give away all our freedoms." Please list some of your freedoms (be specific) that you have lost due to the citizens questioning their government.
You really give hippies a lot of power, when you blame them for those who died in Vietnam. I doubt you have a good case to be made.
Taxes are the price of admission to a civilized society. Education, infrastructure, law enforcement, rule of law, doesn't just happen by itself, and these basic needs cannot be trusted to the private sector.
Yes, we do need some laws and they need them to be enforced objectively. Thankfully, mistakes can be corrected in America, such as hysteria-based cannibis laws.
I don't consider myself to be an asshole, however. You'll find that most people in this Democracy agree with me.
Knowing that so many people in this democracy (REPUBLIC) agree with you is what scares the shit out of me Zombie. I think you're wrong though! Do you really want a "do everything" central government?
The phrase "never waste a good crisis" is incomplete; just add "if you don't have one then create one". Standard practice for both parties.
BTW: since I've been honored with the title of "Perfect Asshole" by your peers group, I can recognize an up and coming amateur.
(From yesterday) Which freedoms granted in the Constitution have been taken from the citizens by people questioning their govt? Doesn't questioning our govt constructively help us to preserve our civil rights? Isn't it possible that by transparently investigating possible abuse and learning from it, we also protect our fellow Americans from torture and abuse?
Funny thing is that you in US have everything reversed. In most other countries left-wings and self-proclaimed communists are the anti-gov and right-wings are enforcing state authority. And the most hillarious thing about that is that you actually have the most anticommunist paranoid goverment of any nation (with the possible exception of some Latin America regimees).
Weren't the Viet Cong the ones killing US soldiers in Vietnam? My dad was there, and he was shot at by Vietnamese, not by war protestors or by those who think the war was wrong.
Maybe you need to clarify who you mean by "they." Do you actually think that people who are anti-war, or those who want to keep our country on the high road morally and ethically, are somehow unpatriotic or intend to bring America down? Some grand "leftist" conspiracy?
It may be more apt to say that Democracy is 9 goats and a wolf. Goats will herd along pretty easily, but piss one off too much and you'll have a horn print in your crotch.
History & Science prove legitimate information does not come from torture; In fact, an al Qaeda member confessed to al-Qaeda's Deputy Operations Chief Ayman al-Zawahiris location specifically because his captors were decent & fair
Moreover, heads of the DOD demonstrated that people joined against America as a direct result of Americas horrific atrocities at Gitmo; & that just as many Americans have died as a direct result of those atrocities at Gitmo as have died in the WTC towers!
Are places like Gitmo an example of human projection by a society?
I submit that Corporations, by virtue of their legal protection scheme, encourage the elimination of compassion on the human level
Thus, a society like America, (which I argue is a socialist country for corporations), is made largely of citizens who daily disconnect themselves from compassion
The net result is a war mongering society that allows torture & violations of human decency!
I do think that weather the torture is only temporarily phychological or causes long term damage is an important distinction,and that if the combatants sponcer is cignatory too the Geneva convention.Beyond that I can appreciate, and to a high degree,Respect the investigations and reports concerning possible murder as long as the option of manslaugter is included.I do not appreciate ANY Hype...on Any Level...for ANY Reason.
what if the roles were reversed? what if middle eastern troops were kidnaping people from the usa, and the torturers and murderers families were tortured to death?!?!?!?
i want to see them watch their daughters and sons water boarded and hung to death!!!
whole families are being gunned down in their homes as they eat and sleep!
missles rain from the sky, and all those soldiers whom ive seen making children chant homosexual phrases, and run for MILES behind a vehicle for some water...
no most countries which are extorted into joining america's war on terror hates america's government and to a smaller extent the ignorance of its people.
I think you both oversimplifies things. I do not hate the US by any stretch of the imagination, but I strongly disagree with many of its past actions (particularly some of their foreign policies).
Also, even though you (Dane) use some dramatic scenarios, the falldown will only begin when the rights of people are taken away.
its like ony when a country is defeated will everyone feel free to see them as the nazzi bastards they are, not just the "enimy"
i cant immagine how evil they are being with this concidering what the poliece do to the american public on a daily basis... they exicuted a man in the bart station on newyears, and i havent heard anything about this murderer going to prision!
the guy was cuffed on his stomach still... and the cop just walked up and shot through the heart, and they just drug him out of view and diddnt even try to help him, or call for help!
it is all on camera and is posted here on youtube.
american athaurities (im not saying other people arent evil too) must be doing worse behind closed doors with "terrorists" concidering how sadistic and sick they are with american people openly on camera!!
What if some kid wants to blow up kids? Would you torture that kid (or have him/her tortured anyway)? Wouldn't that make you as bad as those who would blow up some kids? Do kids in some way have a higher value than adults? I'd say people who blow up kids are sick and should be put in prison, but never tortured. You're sick as well, but relax, I'd only like you to go to prison aswell, and wouldn't want you tortured...
No it's not. You don't put people in prison to make them talk, which is usually why you torture people. You don't put people in prison because you want them to suffer either. if that's what you're getting at, it's simply a way of making them unable to do whatever wrong they did again.
Torture has many purposes, only one of which is to acquire information. I didn't say putting people in prison isn't necessary at times. I said it is a form of torture, which it is.
And I said it ain't. Prison only has one purpose, to prevent someone to commit crimes. Torture may have many purposes, but I hardly think one is to prevent someone from commiting crimes and neither one makes it justified.
Only naivete would allow the belief that prison's only purpose is to prevent crime. However, that isn't what makes it torture. It isn't the intent of the torturer that makes something torture; it's the psychological or physical harm done to the person sustaining the torture that makes it such. Perhaps you could spend a few days in jail for a crime you didn't commit and see if it feels harmful to you.
Of course, none of this negates the necessity or usefulness of prison. Semantics, really.
Perhaps I could. I still believe it's a side effect. Torture is really time limited compared to any longer visit to a prison, but still shunned more by most. If you're beeing tortured you're likely already in some kind of prison-like facility, prison like in the sence that if you're beeing tortured the ones which held you are not likely to be concerned with your well beeing whereas "official" convicts are. Torture is not publicly accepted, and you will likely not get any form of trial before it.
It may be a "side effect," but that doesn't change anything. You don't dismiss an emergent property because it wasn't intended; it's still a real consequence.
Again, naivete; spend a few days in prison for a crime you didn't commit and see if anyone is concerned for your well-being--including the public (in general).
For your sake, I hope you do not have to have an experience like this to realize how wrong you are.
It does change things. I may suffer psychological and physical harm at the dentist, that doesn't make my dentist visit torture does it? Torture is causing harm for the sake of causing harm, where a visit at the dentist or a prison is something which (may) cause harm while it isn't happening for the sake of causing harm. I'm not arguing that emprisonment doesn't cause harm,but that it isnt the same as torture. Have you been tortured as well as been to prison,seeing that you keep calling me naive?
Aha! I see, now! Thank you for your brilliant anology; dental work and prison sentences are so very similar; how did I not see this before? I have seen the error of my ways; no longer will I try to infuse our language with compassion for those HUMAN BEINGS that society seems to believe do not deserve any compassion at all. The necessary evils of our day should make us all happy to consider, lest we decide our methods might stand improvement!
So, you believe labeling imprisonment as torture somehow shows compassion and a higher moral standpoint? There are many laws for imprisonment in place to protect the human being beeing exposed to it, so it's not like there isn't any compassion. You also said imprisonment is necessary at times, do the people in these cases not deserve that compassion which you believe imprisonment-which-is-not-called-torture lacks?
Language is an important aspect of human viewpoints and can have a distinct impact on our rationale for immorality, especially on a societal level.
What we choose to call something affects how we view it, and in turn, how we choose to deal with it.
The argument is semantic; all imprisonment is a form of torture. We should see it this way because the legal protection of prisoners is poorly upheld, and that fact is ignored because of society's general view of convicted people.
But you would not be convinced if we spent a year discussing it, and while I might concede some points here and there, I would not change my mind, either.
So, I resign from this pointless semantic argument. You win. You out-persisted me.
Nice chatting with you, even if it was pointless. Discussion is always the beginning, isn't it?
Funny how the thought that struck my mind that I would read your comment and then not respond, just drop it what ever you wrote ;)
While I have always thought that atleast in my home land, Sweden, prisoners has had good protection, this may of course is a bad stand point while arguing with someone from another country. It's well reflected in your point about the language, and yes, discussion is always a start.
the answers you get from torture isn't guaranteed to be right, when you get torture, there's a guarantee that you will give an answer, it is not guaranteed that you will give the truth, especially if you don't know the truth, then you might just make one up to make the pain go away.
Did you miss the statistics in the vid saying that likely the people who has died during these tortures are hundreds? This would make your government KILLERS. If you support your government in KILLING, it's pretty much the same thing as hanging out with killers. Thus you just marked yourself as someone who is okay to torture. Smart...
I can see why people would see it that way, the problem is assumption which could be wrong, theirs a risk that you are about to waterboard an innocent man, until he will give you information that he doesn't have, and he will give you information just the same as the guilty guy, only his information is useless to you, and you will now have made him an enemy as well.
sure thats good way of looking at it, no doubt.i myself couldn't torture anyone. if someone killed a person in my family i would kill them fast out of anger but not torture.
i wouldn't say take a person walking in an the wrong area and torture him,but if you know he's a bad guy, with a bomb, in a building full of bad guys he' most likely not the milk man. he want you dead as much as the rest of the guys in that building.
Okay, and what's more likely? That you torture them and they tell the truth, or that you torture them and they tell you what they think you want to hear?
Torture isn't a good way of gaining accurate information.
Hey Democracy Now, What if we all vote to be able to kill Prisoners?
yinzjagoffs 7 months ago
Retribution is the purpose of the criminal justice system. We must torture terrorists for information. Individual rights not collective rights. Ayn Rand even said selfishness is a virtue. War is the state of man.
ToxicOdiousOne 1 year ago
Force them to work with regular beatings. Don't pay these slaves. Spit on them. Don't respect them. They violated the Constitution they are not entitled to it's protections. Cruel and unusual punishment is not subjecting them to torture. They have no showers.
ToxicOdiousOne 1 year ago
@ToxicOdiousOne Judgment via the court system is different than "judge not, lest ye be judged." At times we need to step in, help someone stop hurting others by giving them a little "time out," and give them an education.
How can we teach people not to hurt others by punishing them? Prison should be a place of time out, redirection, and education ... to teach prisoners of fear the sanctity of life through reminding them that they are sacred, also.
eastariel 1 year ago
Why do we waste money on prison food? What let prisoners get obese? Let prisoners starve in their own excrement. Jail is supposed to be unhygenic. It's supposed to be crawling with disease and bugs.
ToxicOdiousOne 1 year ago
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uwcerj 2 years ago
Watching the slow degrading of the constitution and the Justice system brings tears to my eyes.
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FreedomForMankind 2 years ago
DN! rocks...
so many brilliant ppl work there
Tritium8 2 years ago
Hmmmm Starting to figure out why the CIA won't come clean about what happened? They are neck deep in it. Hiding their asses is not a matter of "National Security", and the fact that they even make the argument clarifies just how corrupt they have become.
FreedomsReigning 2 years ago
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The filthy neo-con NAZI war criminal Cheney dog and his crime partner Bush should be put on trial for war crime against humanity and EXECUTED by hanging.
BruceLeeKickYoAss4 2 years ago
How can anyone trust a government that uses a technique for "information gathering", when the same technique is used for "false confessions"?
Define terrorist - beware, slippery slope ahead.
dlucas90 2 years ago
if we like him hes a freedom fighter if we dont hes a terrorist
MPviking89 2 years ago 4
Just because I believe we need some laws and a common sense measure of regulation which requires government, does not mean I'm a Communist. We certainly may disagree about the scope of government, but that does not mean that we have to put each other on slippery slopes. I do not assume you are a bomb-shelter cowaring militia type, just because you want to limit the scope of govt.
ZombieCobain 2 years ago
We have a system in place to correct for government mistakes and abuse; when are we going to use it? It's time for the states to call for a continental congress.
DustyMay1944 2 years ago
The term torture evokes strong emotions. The term is rather broad, and I would consider any situation in which physical or mental distress is used to coerce information out of someone to be torture.
kshackleton 2 years ago
Well, what do you mean by distress? forms of coercion by police happen every day in order to sort through a case. A prosecutor that threatens to "throw the book" at someone if they don't cooperate could be called distress; but it's a valid form of criminal justice that has to be used to solve crimes and find justice.
Now, if you consider mental distress to be some form of permanent, debilitating psychological torment, then I'm with you.
Eldritch78 2 years ago
This is precisely the problem with labels. I guess that we should look at each action on its own merits and decide what is acceptable and what is not.
Saying that the coercion must result in some permanent harm is too narrow.
kshackleton 2 years ago
I agree in theory that we need to look at each case and judge them by the circumstance... but in practice, there is too often the temptation to generalize or take shortcuts. Plus, what do we judge them by? Utilitarian affectations? What does the most good for the most people?
I guess I'm a bit of a cynic, in that I don't think there's ever going to be a perfect system. Perhaps the strive towards perfection is a virtue in and of itself. At least that way we don't become complete nihilists.
Eldritch78 2 years ago
I think an important criteria is the ability of the person under duress to stop it.
In the case of police interrogation, the person being interrogated [if not under arrest] can get up and walk away at any time. If the person is under arrest, then you have the right to shut your mouth and ask to see a lawyer.
This is strikingly different than the person who is tied to a chair, naked, under bright lights with no ability to stop the interrogation.
kshackleton 2 years ago
I agree that we should always strive for perfection [or at least a close approximation] even though we know that we can never actually attain it.
kshackleton 2 years ago
the people that facilitated the torture should die horrible deaths
Finiras 2 years ago
If Obama blocks this stuff from being investigated, quite frankly, he's part of the problem.
I don't care who goes down with the investigation, be it the CIA, Republicans, Democrats, current or former administration. These people are NOT above the law.
The US needs to shake these people out and set a precedent so it never happens again.
Amy31415 2 years ago 4
Democracy... what a joke.
ZombieX13 2 years ago
Stupid liberals. Torture is fine, as long as you torture the right people! The Bush Admin. tortured fuckloads of innocent bystandards for no reason!
Sav3TheWorld 2 years ago
And I suppose the person who has the might gets to decide who is the right person to torture. What a great principle...
omegavalerius 2 years ago 2
Well, by that definition someone out there is entitled to torture you. You are probably the right person for someone to torture. "The right people" can be anyone by definition, so you are advocating that it MIGHT be right of your enemies to torture YOU, if only they define it right.
0no1one 2 years ago
Damn... If there is anything to this.
It's really bad for the US.
Pracedru 2 years ago
In this world there are good guys and bad guys.
The bad guys use torture, thats how you tell they are bad guys.
It's sad that the Usa that used to be a bastion of freedom has sunk to these depths.
Religion, and dogmatism is indeed a curse.
Remember, there is no god in the trenches.
dalinean 2 years ago
Bush should be prosicuted
celestialsalamander 2 years ago
NO........he should be holywaterboarded .sounds nice to me
sortdane 2 years ago
I hate that the govt. tortured people. It's messed up. Waterboarding is horrible. And I'm betting more went on.
But let's be realistic. Mocking a superstition? Running around with your arms out? Putting someone in a box with a caterpillar? Sleep deprivation? You can argue that they most likely didn't accomplish anything, and I'll agree... but I'm not gonna call that torture.
Eldritch78 2 years ago
Hundreds of people weren't tortured to death with these mundane things you listed. Much more went on than your examples. Do you not watch the news or do you only watch faux news?
fractal420 2 years ago
Honestly, I loathe all the television news outlets, including Democracy Now. They stopped being objective long, long ago. Now it's all either partisan or infotainment.
Having said that, I never read any report that hundreds were tortured to death by the government. If I'm wrong, I'm sorry, but I'd like to see some sources on that.
Eldritch78 2 years ago
If you would agree that it didn't accomplish anything, then you would agree that it serves no purpose and should be stopped.
Also, sleep deprivation can kill .
kshackleton 2 years ago
This is bull shit.... Why are there no investigations being done on the people who did this? Just more proof that republicans are pious, self righteous, blood thirsty, ass holes.
tempemonkey2323 2 years ago
MOST politians are actually...This is what we call "Land of the Free" ha..wadda joke
theentrepreneur2006 2 years ago
Somebody has to be held responsible for these deaths and the torture which may have brought it about.
sachaput 2 years ago
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"Democracy Now"? What a MF joke. These are the people that are destroying America, not the Muslim extremist. I may not like Bush but I hate these kind of assholes even more. These are the kind of bastards that got so many of us killed in Vietnam with that same anti-American bull shit. The do-gooders that think they know what's best for everyone else and proceed to give away all our freedoms and support our enemies.
DustyMay1944 2 years ago
The vietnam war was anti-american and many soldiers agreed with it once they got out.
I cant believe anybody today is still pro-vietnam war.
It was horrific what our soldiers did there to win, and we were right to protest it and while the way we treated soldiers coming back was wrong as they were "following orders and winning battles they were told to win" but it was the actions of our military and being there period that got our people killed, not protesters.
waltermh111 2 years ago 3
Your giving away your freedoms by supporting torture.
Torture is un-american, tell me of a super hero that supports torture?
Superman? Truth Justice and the american way, but no torture. Our heroes don't support torture. We all know torture failed during the inquisition, and the witch trials of salem and other places.
So it does not work, and its wrong. But its un-american to fight it? LOL what america were you born in?
adolthitler 2 years ago 3
Superheroes? Let's get back to reality.
RhunDraco 2 years ago
Never thought i'd be saying this but I agree with Adolth hitler here.
fractal420 2 years ago
1. Uh...you can love America, but love the way an adult loves. An adult will love something, yet recognize areas of improvement. By questioning our government constructively, we can improve America.
2. "Give away all our freedoms." Please list some of your freedoms (be specific) that you have lost due to the citizens questioning their government.
You really give hippies a lot of power, when you blame them for those who died in Vietnam. I doubt you have a good case to be made.
ZombieCobain 2 years ago 9
good job zombie.
tam705618 2 years ago
Right on, zombie.
RhunDraco 2 years ago
agreed !!
theentrepreneur2006 2 years ago
If you have to pay taxes on land you own then you don't own it.
Don't pay taxes and all you own will be taken from you.
How many people are in jail for putting something into their own body? Laws that only benefit drug companies!
READ THE CONSTITUTION AND YOU'LL SEE WHAT FREEDOMS ARE BEING TAKEN OR GIVEN AWAY and you're helping them do it.
Are you one of the assholes that think you know what's best for everyone and that there needs to be a law to make it happen?
The list goes on
DustyMay1944 2 years ago
Taxes are the price of admission to a civilized society. Education, infrastructure, law enforcement, rule of law, doesn't just happen by itself, and these basic needs cannot be trusted to the private sector.
Yes, we do need some laws and they need them to be enforced objectively. Thankfully, mistakes can be corrected in America, such as hysteria-based cannibis laws.
I don't consider myself to be an asshole, however. You'll find that most people in this Democracy agree with me.
ZombieCobain 2 years ago
Knowing that so many people in this democracy (REPUBLIC) agree with you is what scares the shit out of me Zombie. I think you're wrong though! Do you really want a "do everything" central government?
The phrase "never waste a good crisis" is incomplete; just add "if you don't have one then create one". Standard practice for both parties.
BTW: since I've been honored with the title of "Perfect Asshole" by your peers group, I can recognize an up and coming amateur.
DustyMay1944 2 years ago
(From yesterday) Which freedoms granted in the Constitution have been taken from the citizens by people questioning their govt? Doesn't questioning our govt constructively help us to preserve our civil rights? Isn't it possible that by transparently investigating possible abuse and learning from it, we also protect our fellow Americans from torture and abuse?
ZombieCobain 2 years ago
Funny thing is that you in US have everything reversed. In most other countries left-wings and self-proclaimed communists are the anti-gov and right-wings are enforcing state authority. And the most hillarious thing about that is that you actually have the most anticommunist paranoid goverment of any nation (with the possible exception of some Latin America regimees).
DINDRAGON 2 years ago
Weren't the Viet Cong the ones killing US soldiers in Vietnam? My dad was there, and he was shot at by Vietnamese, not by war protestors or by those who think the war was wrong.
Maybe you need to clarify who you mean by "they." Do you actually think that people who are anti-war, or those who want to keep our country on the high road morally and ethically, are somehow unpatriotic or intend to bring America down? Some grand "leftist" conspiracy?
RhunDraco 2 years ago
The ones that got people killed in Nam or any other foreign war are the ones that started the war not the protestors.
fractal420 2 years ago
Torture is wrong....Plain and simple.
boony68 2 years ago
Excellent points. This is not about policy differences, this is about cold-blooded torture and murder.
jayraskin 2 years ago
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch
DarthHuru 2 years ago
Or more accurately in this case...
Democracy is 9 lambs and a wolf voting on who to throw over the cliff.
robman419 2 years ago 2
It may be more apt to say that Democracy is 9 goats and a wolf. Goats will herd along pretty easily, but piss one off too much and you'll have a horn print in your crotch.
Chirox82 2 years ago
And constitution says its not going to be the sheep.
CriticalAtheist 2 years ago
History & Science prove legitimate information does not come from torture; In fact, an al Qaeda member confessed to al-Qaeda's Deputy Operations Chief Ayman al-Zawahiris location specifically because his captors were decent & fair
Moreover, heads of the DOD demonstrated that people joined against America as a direct result of Americas horrific atrocities at Gitmo; & that just as many Americans have died as a direct result of those atrocities at Gitmo as have died in the WTC towers!
sugarpuddin88 2 years ago
Isn't Cheney a 5 time Draft Dodger?
Are places like Gitmo an example of human projection by a society?
I submit that Corporations, by virtue of their legal protection scheme, encourage the elimination of compassion on the human level
Thus, a society like America, (which I argue is a socialist country for corporations), is made largely of citizens who daily disconnect themselves from compassion
The net result is a war mongering society that allows torture & violations of human decency!
sugarpuddin88 2 years ago
I do think that weather the torture is only temporarily phychological or causes long term damage is an important distinction,and that if the combatants sponcer is cignatory too the Geneva convention.Beyond that I can appreciate, and to a high degree,Respect the investigations and reports concerning possible murder as long as the option of manslaugter is included.I do not appreciate ANY Hype...on Any Level...for ANY Reason.
Thereminator101 2 years ago
hehe, guter re-upload :)
die idee hast du doch sicher von meinem channel... kannst auch gerne mein video über folter re-uploaden, also, dieses hier: watch?v=RFU6vy7UBgY
kurtilein3 2 years ago
Ja, I saw this vid on your channel. Thanks for uploading !!! :)
-FFreeThinker
Best0fScience 2 years ago 2
was it karl marx that said the ends justifies the means?
jbz3 2 years ago
Don't forget, Jesus loves torture. He loves it so much he had to come down here and get some for himself.
gatorboymike 2 years ago 8
The more you suffer the speedier your trip to the promised place. :)
stratvic 2 years ago
This sounds worse than what Scientologists do in thier RFP with Sea org etc. And Scientology is no better than Nazism according to Germany.
shelley0809 2 years ago 2
Don't you just love how this "nation under god", totally missed one of the most important messages of their messiah...
PontusLP 2 years ago
Depends on which bit of that "good book" you choose to read.
stratvic 2 years ago
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PontusLP 2 years ago
what if the roles were reversed? what if middle eastern troops were kidnaping people from the usa, and the torturers and murderers families were tortured to death?!?!?!?
i want to see them watch their daughters and sons water boarded and hung to death!!!
whole families are being gunned down in their homes as they eat and sleep!
missles rain from the sky, and all those soldiers whom ive seen making children chant homosexual phrases, and run for MILES behind a vehicle for some water...
publicdrunkeness 2 years ago 3
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sortdane 2 years ago
it is understandable why everyone hates america
Ryan44567 2 years ago
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sortdane 2 years ago
no most countries which are extorted into joining america's war on terror hates america's government and to a smaller extent the ignorance of its people.
dakusahab 2 years ago
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sortdane 2 years ago
I think you both oversimplifies things. I do not hate the US by any stretch of the imagination, but I strongly disagree with many of its past actions (particularly some of their foreign policies).
Also, even though you (Dane) use some dramatic scenarios, the falldown will only begin when the rights of people are taken away.
Aaberg123 2 years ago
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sortdane 2 years ago
Woman, stop talking or use your voice. WTF is wrong with you?
ContinuumXT 2 years ago
Wow... I hate america once more.
ArtypNk 2 years ago
Wow....thanks for hating america once more..they are scared shit of being hated. Hope you love Iran more now?
sortdane 2 years ago
Yes. Yes I do.
ArtypNk 2 years ago
its like ony when a country is defeated will everyone feel free to see them as the nazzi bastards they are, not just the "enimy"
i cant immagine how evil they are being with this concidering what the poliece do to the american public on a daily basis... they exicuted a man in the bart station on newyears, and i havent heard anything about this murderer going to prision!
publicdrunkeness 2 years ago
the guy was cuffed on his stomach still... and the cop just walked up and shot through the heart, and they just drug him out of view and diddnt even try to help him, or call for help!
it is all on camera and is posted here on youtube.
american athaurities (im not saying other people arent evil too) must be doing worse behind closed doors with "terrorists" concidering how sadistic and sick they are with american people openly on camera!!
publicdrunkeness 2 years ago
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sortdane 2 years ago
Those are the only two options? Life around you must be really weird.
cappastrano 2 years ago 14
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sortdane 2 years ago
seriously. sartdane life is NOT black and white or right and wrong, 1 way or the other. its way too complex to just give only two options.
305pride 2 years ago
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sortdane 2 years ago
What if some kid wants to blow up kids? Would you torture that kid (or have him/her tortured anyway)? Wouldn't that make you as bad as those who would blow up some kids? Do kids in some way have a higher value than adults? I'd say people who blow up kids are sick and should be put in prison, but never tortured. You're sick as well, but relax, I'd only like you to go to prison aswell, and wouldn't want you tortured...
PontusLP 2 years ago
Imprisonment is a form of torture, too.
TritonAlias 2 years ago
your stupid, too
ryanmail2004 2 years ago
you're,* ryanmail.
Now take in the irony.
Gameplayr8891 2 years ago 5
your gameplayr8891
now take that in the email address.
ryanmail2004 2 years ago
excellent point.
roflschofel 2 years ago
No it's not. You don't put people in prison to make them talk, which is usually why you torture people. You don't put people in prison because you want them to suffer either. if that's what you're getting at, it's simply a way of making them unable to do whatever wrong they did again.
PontusLP 2 years ago
Torture has many purposes, only one of which is to acquire information. I didn't say putting people in prison isn't necessary at times. I said it is a form of torture, which it is.
TritonAlias 2 years ago
And I said it ain't. Prison only has one purpose, to prevent someone to commit crimes. Torture may have many purposes, but I hardly think one is to prevent someone from commiting crimes and neither one makes it justified.
PontusLP 2 years ago
Only naivete would allow the belief that prison's only purpose is to prevent crime. However, that isn't what makes it torture. It isn't the intent of the torturer that makes something torture; it's the psychological or physical harm done to the person sustaining the torture that makes it such. Perhaps you could spend a few days in jail for a crime you didn't commit and see if it feels harmful to you.
Of course, none of this negates the necessity or usefulness of prison. Semantics, really.
TritonAlias 2 years ago
Perhaps I could. I still believe it's a side effect. Torture is really time limited compared to any longer visit to a prison, but still shunned more by most. If you're beeing tortured you're likely already in some kind of prison-like facility, prison like in the sence that if you're beeing tortured the ones which held you are not likely to be concerned with your well beeing whereas "official" convicts are. Torture is not publicly accepted, and you will likely not get any form of trial before it.
PontusLP 2 years ago
It may be a "side effect," but that doesn't change anything. You don't dismiss an emergent property because it wasn't intended; it's still a real consequence.
Again, naivete; spend a few days in prison for a crime you didn't commit and see if anyone is concerned for your well-being--including the public (in general).
For your sake, I hope you do not have to have an experience like this to realize how wrong you are.
TritonAlias 2 years ago
It does change things. I may suffer psychological and physical harm at the dentist, that doesn't make my dentist visit torture does it? Torture is causing harm for the sake of causing harm, where a visit at the dentist or a prison is something which (may) cause harm while it isn't happening for the sake of causing harm. I'm not arguing that emprisonment doesn't cause harm,but that it isnt the same as torture. Have you been tortured as well as been to prison,seeing that you keep calling me naive?
PontusLP 2 years ago
Aha! I see, now! Thank you for your brilliant anology; dental work and prison sentences are so very similar; how did I not see this before? I have seen the error of my ways; no longer will I try to infuse our language with compassion for those HUMAN BEINGS that society seems to believe do not deserve any compassion at all. The necessary evils of our day should make us all happy to consider, lest we decide our methods might stand improvement!
Thank you for showing me the light!
TritonAlias 2 years ago
So, you believe labeling imprisonment as torture somehow shows compassion and a higher moral standpoint? There are many laws for imprisonment in place to protect the human being beeing exposed to it, so it's not like there isn't any compassion. You also said imprisonment is necessary at times, do the people in these cases not deserve that compassion which you believe imprisonment-which-is-not-called-torture lacks?
PontusLP 2 years ago
Language is an important aspect of human viewpoints and can have a distinct impact on our rationale for immorality, especially on a societal level.
What we choose to call something affects how we view it, and in turn, how we choose to deal with it.
The argument is semantic; all imprisonment is a form of torture. We should see it this way because the legal protection of prisoners is poorly upheld, and that fact is ignored because of society's general view of convicted people.
TritonAlias 2 years ago
But you would not be convinced if we spent a year discussing it, and while I might concede some points here and there, I would not change my mind, either.
So, I resign from this pointless semantic argument. You win. You out-persisted me.
Nice chatting with you, even if it was pointless. Discussion is always the beginning, isn't it?
TritonAlias 2 years ago
Funny how the thought that struck my mind that I would read your comment and then not respond, just drop it what ever you wrote ;)
While I have always thought that atleast in my home land, Sweden, prisoners has had good protection, this may of course is a bad stand point while arguing with someone from another country. It's well reflected in your point about the language, and yes, discussion is always a start.
Have a nice day.
PontusLP 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
fight fire with fire.
if the m.f. that got kill in our gov.hands was the guy who cut your mothers head off.
what would you do.
you sure as hell wouldn't shake his hand and say cutting heads off isn't a nice way to play now go be a good boy.
we need answers do what it takes to get them. they fucking hate us because of their god!!!!wtf
1deanwdaniel 2 years ago
Yes, violence is response to violence, That's the best way to do things.
cappastrano 2 years ago
the answers you get from torture isn't guaranteed to be right, when you get torture, there's a guarantee that you will give an answer, it is not guaranteed that you will give the truth, especially if you don't know the truth, then you might just make one up to make the pain go away.
DayDark87 2 years ago 5
i understand that.and it's sad that it would even go that far.
but you ever heard you are who you hang out with.if you hang with killers you most likely are a killer
1deanwdaniel 2 years ago
Did you miss the statistics in the vid saying that likely the people who has died during these tortures are hundreds? This would make your government KILLERS. If you support your government in KILLING, it's pretty much the same thing as hanging out with killers. Thus you just marked yourself as someone who is okay to torture. Smart...
PontusLP 2 years ago 4
I can see why people would see it that way, the problem is assumption which could be wrong, theirs a risk that you are about to waterboard an innocent man, until he will give you information that he doesn't have, and he will give you information just the same as the guilty guy, only his information is useless to you, and you will now have made him an enemy as well.
DayDark87 2 years ago
sure thats good way of looking at it, no doubt.i myself couldn't torture anyone. if someone killed a person in my family i would kill them fast out of anger but not torture.
i wouldn't say take a person walking in an the wrong area and torture him,but if you know he's a bad guy, with a bomb, in a building full of bad guys he' most likely not the milk man. he want you dead as much as the rest of the guys in that building.
1deanwdaniel 2 years ago
Okay, and what's more likely? That you torture them and they tell the truth, or that you torture them and they tell you what they think you want to hear?
Torture isn't a good way of gaining accurate information.
xVancha 2 years ago 4
I watched Cheney today saying how great torture was and how grateful everyone should be to the bush/cheney administration. I almost puked.
bezboznik84 2 years ago 5
This comment has received too many negative votes show
What does this have to do with 'how to help sick kids hospital'?
Helghastl33t 2 years ago