Finnish Winter War - Defence forces newsreel (Raatteentie)

[obuBBubo]

"What millions killed?"

- Seven million (7) Russians, Six plus (6+) Ukranians, Hundreds of thousands of LLithuanians, Estonians & Finns, 37 000 Karelians, etc.

"During WW2 you were trying to kill every Russian civilian you could"

- NOT true. As said, the whole nation was starving because of SU's invasion.

If no invasion, no hunger, no camps no deaths.

A therefore B, no A then no B. SU's sin.

[TheYellowbellyfins]

The Yellow Belly Finns German Puppets

[obuBBubo]

@TheYellowbellyfins is a LIE and a LIAR by default.

In September 1940, Stalin sent Molotov to Berlin to ASK Hitler, if SU could "take care of unfinished business in Finland" (to occupy all of Finland). Hitler said "njet" to him; so no second attempt took place in 1940.

Nazi puppet, lol.

Germans requested that Finnish Jews and Gypsies were to be exterminated; the Finns said a resolute "Nein!!" to the request.

Who was a puppet.

Dark side seems to have its evil puppets as well - even today.

[obuBBubo]

Just in Poland alone:

"military, police and administrative personnel, large landowners, industrialists, merchants. They were usually sentenced to 8–20 years of labor camps.." "

"Massive deportations of the Polish population into remote areas of the Soviet Union took place in 1940–1941. Estimates of the total number of deported Poles vary between 400,000 and 1.6 million people."

Indeed, they had the same "rights" as the Soviets - right to be shot, or to die of hard labour, the cold, the hunger.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo There was no so many poles in western Ukraine and Belarus.In fact only 325000 were deported.

But we didn't commit crimes like finns did in 1941-41,when they called all russian civillians including children on occupied land "POW" and locked them in concentration camps,where 25% of them were brutally killed or died of starvation or hard work.Even children were forced to do the hard work.

[Raven30101979]

@Raven30101979 I don't mention about destiny of russian soldiers in finnish POW camps.Crimes of finns can compare only with crimes of germans.It was policy of genocide against russians.As I know finns also sent some jews(citizens of Finland) to Germany for murdering.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 "As I know finns also sent some jews(citizens of Finland) to Germany for murdering."

Wrong!! Of 500 REFUGEES to Finland, eight (8) were handed "back" to Germans. In 2000, the Finnish Prime Minister Lipponen made an official apology to Jews for failing to protect those eight.

Btw: "In April 1956, the Warsaw Yiddish language Jewish newspaper Folkshtimme published sensational long lists of Soviet Jews who had perished BEFORE and AFTER the Holocaust."

Finger down, please.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo I think those jews you sent for murdering now feel much better after Lipponen apologies.Finland would never exist on the first place if not Russia.Face it! So it's up to Russia to decide what land Finland schould and what schouldn't have.I don't know which court can justify genocide commited by finns against russian civillians.It's silly to blame USSR in antisemitism,after all we had jews in government and Stalin was first who supported creating of State of Israel.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 A therefore B; if no A then no B.

If the Russians had stayed behind their border, there would've been no war.

ANY COURT WOULD TAKE IT INTO ACCOUNT!

Therefore: Russians - GUILTY AS CHARGED!!! Finns - NO conviction recorded - they walk tall and free.

Time for Russians to apologise for the UNPROVOKED murders they committed in their MILLIONS (those MILLIONS must feel REALLY BAD when their MURDERERS don't even bother admitting their CRIMES, lest apologise for what they've done).

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 More about a REAL genocide, and NOT of the bogus "concentration camps" (pictures taken were of Russian camps for propaganda purposes).

"Soviet partisans operated in Finland.... During the operations committed, Soviet partisans killed and injured 250 Finnish civilians, including children and elderly. The partisans often executed civilians throughout, not wanting anyone to witness the atrocities."

Funny; partisans usually operate in OCCUPIED lands, but these rats came from Russia.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo What propaganda?! Murdering of russian children and women in finnish deathycamps is a fact! And it was MUCH more than 192 finns killed by partisans(not by regular troops)In 1939-40 Red Army harmed no finnish civillian on it's way.Nobody was executed or sent to concentration camp.

And Finland was atacking Russia in 1920-22,long before Winter War.You just use any opportunity when Russia is in trouble to atack us and steal our land.So it's Finland agressor,not Russia.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Is this video about Russians getting lost in the snowstorm and ending up in the north whilst securing a "buffer zone" for Leningrad? or is about UNPROVOKED attack by Russians against Finland to rob their land? Latter.

Courts take these things into account and render NOT guilty verdict against the VICTIM.

Whereas the CRIMINALS bear their guilt.

In 1939, they together with Nazis, began occupying INDEPENDENT countries of Europe & MURDERED multitudes.

GUILTY AS CHARGED!

[pioninkukka]

Hieno musiikki.

Sibeliustako tämä on?

[Raven30101979]

@randomjesse Read the book "Siege of Leningrad and Finland".As I know it's translated to finish,so you can find it.

[Raven30101979]

@randomjesse "If Peterbourg will not exist as a big city,Neva would be ideal border of Finland.Peterburg must be destroyed!" Words of Ryti said to german ambassador 11.09.1941 If finns wanted to have it's border on Neva,they had to take Leningrad,one way or another.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 "In fact fair border of Finland is border of 1809 when Russia took Finland from Sweden.It was Russia who included Vyborg and other areas into Finland in 1811,so we had any right to demand it back when Finland became independent in 1917".

Er...history regarding Vyborg did not begin in 1811. Telling a partial truth is as good as a lie.

Also, whoever administrated Vyborg 1721-1811after the Swedes, the inhabitants administered over were NOT Novgorodians nor Svenskas but were FINNS.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo Yes,history of this area began much earlier.Let me remind you who posessed this land starting from 10th century.It was Russia.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 And for a good reason. For it was the Soviet policy to deport and re-populate the nations it subdued.

That Vyborg and Karelia were Russian is hogwash.Even StPetersburg was built on a Finic land - ORIGINAL names confirm the fact. It was Stalin, who very late in history, "emptied" the natives from the area. The natives that go back to at least to 4th century AD; to them, and to Siberian tribes, and others belong all the land-rights in the world ahead of the new-comers the Russians.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Is that so...Now, remind yourself also of the language the inhabitants spoke and of what was their ethnic origin. The fact is the Novgorodians and Swedes were but invaders to the lands that didn't belong to them. Even the Tzar acknowledged the region's cultural & ethnic lines.Untainted revolution did the same.

It's only when communist hegemony began raising its ugly head that INDEPENDENT nations had to fear for the loss of their territories.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo International laws don't recognise tribes untill they created it's own state.As autonomy Finland exists from 1809.As an independent state from 1917.So untill this time you had absolutely no right to demand this territory.Russia was the first State who got this land,so we are legitime owners of this territory.As you know Russia is multinational state with over 200 nationalities,so nobody would mind if finns lived in some parts of Russia.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Is that so..But of course they are recognized by the international COMMUNITY as people existing - with or without a statehood.

Also, ETHICAL AND MORAL duty of man is above international law. A few years ago, Australia said sorry to Aborigines, and began returning HUGE areas of tribal lands to their original owners.

Russia should do the same to make things right

Nobody...? Lol. I think Finns would mind it very much - to their last drop of blood as proven by the past.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo I don't care about Australia.I just telling you that Finland has absolutely no right to demand this land according to existing international laws.So,the only way for finns to live in Vyborg is obtain a visa and a residence permit from russian authorities.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Don't rush ahead of yourself. I never bought your "first-state" argument. The fact is that Karelians, Hameans, Savoans, Siberian tribes, etc. had their own rulers and kings, and defined territorial borders. So, to say that Novgorod with its streets, established housing and walls somehow was a state above those of not so concentrated and sophisticated somehow gained a right over ANY area they occupied at the point of sword IS ABSURD!!

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo Well if you call few villages speaking the same language "The state",I have different opinion about it.In 10th century there was not a state called Finland,and the fact that your tribes didn't manage to become a strong independent state means that we can't consider them as a subject of international law.You should be happy that you dealt with Russia and not England or USA,otherwise you could repeat the destiny of native americans,90% would be killed and the rest locked in reservations.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 That state theory doesn't wash. That is, Novgorodians entering ANY loosely knit tribal land could claim it as its own. That's called colonialism. These days colonies are being returned to their rightful owners. It's about time for Russia to do the same, and re-draw some maps.

They didn't grow strong because the Swedes and Novgorodians were so uncivilized barbarians as not to respect their human rights.

Neither did USSR do. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, 100% Ingrians. Need to cont..?

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo Who knows:) Russian economy is doing well,while Europe is going down.Maybe after some years finns will beg us to take Finland back to Russia.What is about Baltics? You claim that we killed 90% of them and locked the rest in reservations?!Boris was an idiot,and even if he wanted to give away russian land,parliament which in his time was controlled by Communist Party wouldn't let him do it.But as I said his times passed forever.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Nah, I don't claim no 90%, I merely point it out that uncivilized barbarianism began systematic ethnic cleansing in the baltics, & also decimated Ingrians almost 100%.

Im rather disturbed when reading that "fortitude" with its non-existing sense of human rights somehow is deemed as a virtue. Far from it. It is nothing else but vile evil desire cloaked in patriotism, whilst committing heinous crimes against humanity, against weak and frail (as the history and map of Russia show).

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 As to international laws....It was the international community that kicked SU out of the league of nations due to their unprovoked attack on Finland in 1939. And the main players, USA, England and France all spoke with one voice against the invasion. Which follows that Karelia was recognized as Finnish territory by the WORLD.

Yeltsin did the same; he, a) admitted the Soviets had started the war, b) offered Karelia back.

It only takes another Boris, and yous will be needing visas.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo

Good thing,that there won't be another Boris,just like in Germany there never will be another Hitler,and in France another Napoleon,so don't have illusions about it.As for League of Nations decision was inspired by England and it's colonies.If every rupublic of USSR had right to vote,like english colonies,decision would be different.Go to any country in the world and by the map.You will see that everybody recognise Vyborg as part of Russia.I think even on finnish maps it's the same:)

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Not another Boris...don't count your chickens as yet; for, i believe Russia has to go through another dark winter before it is softened enough to throw away the foolish bravado that seems to be rolling out from every Russian lip.

Nah, Boris was no eccentric Napoleon, nor Hitler the madman; he was a man who called as it was. A true conscience of Russia. Pity he isn't around any more. But we will wait for another like him to remove the darkness covering the great Nation Russia now.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo Russia didn't need somebody's help to became a great and strong independend country,despite we had strong enemies who tried all the time to bring us down.If your tribes didn't manage to grow it tells that they din't have a fortitude and didn't deserve to have it's own territory.Finland exists only because Russia allowed it.So you schould be gratefull,that you are not part of Sweden or russian region.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 "If your tribes didn't manage to grow it tells that they din't have a fortitude and didn't deserve to have it's own territory."

Or it tells that they respected the human rights of their fellow humans, and were quite happy to live within the confines of their own territories.

And they did have marked-out territorial borders, same as the American Indians had between the tribes. Did they all deserve to live, and live in freedom? Absolutely. Ps. There're 3 million Russians in America.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo I still don't get your point about Baltics.Do you mean deportation of few thousands people from there to the east in june 1941? For your information it prevented revolt planned after german invasion.Russians always treated all nationalities living on our territory as equal to as.No matter latvian,tatarin or uzbek,all had same rights.That's why Finland exists.If we were like americans,we could kill all natives on the land we get and nobody would stop us.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Isn't that stretching it a bit. KGB records tell us that in Lithuania alone, 24 000 plus Forest Brothers were killed (190 000 a la the natives). It is estimated that from 1941-45, some 750 000 Lithuanians were either killed, deported, or chose to leave rather than live under Russian rule. Add to that Latvians, Estonians and the Finns, and you get a grim picture of SU's treatment of the natives.

What about typing "Population transfer in Soviet Union" Not too nice reading at all.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 "Historian Dmitri Volkogonov, head of a special Russian parliamentary commission, citing KGB documents available after the fall of the USSR concluded that "from 1929 to 1952, 21.5 million [Soviet] people were repressed. Of these a third (7,166,666) were shot, the rest sentenced to imprisonment, where many also died."

Even animals are more "humane" towards their own kind.

Yet is this murderous barbarianism to be removed from the hearts of Russians. What will make it happen?

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo You don't understand what I mean! I don't deny repressions,but most of those who suffered it were russians.Nobody was repressed only because of nationality.All people in Russia had the same rights.As for 1941-45,most of the time Baltics were occupied by germans,so it's stupid to blame USSR in those deaths.Forest brothers were german collaborators,killing civillians not only in Baltics but in Russia and Belarus,so they deserved to be panished.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 But of course I understand. Point in the quote below is: if they CAN do that to THEIR OWN; how much more WILL they do it to those who are NOT their kith and kin.

And they did - as the "Population transfer in the Soviet Union", and "Forced settlements in Soviet Union" amply reveal.

Agreed. Dates should've read 1939 - 1969. Now, there's no denying of the actions taken by SU against the people of Lithuania, Estonia, etc. from 1939 to Barbarossa, and from demise of Reich to 1950's.

[iStupifyYOU]

Russians got raped.

They may have won some land but they lost a shit load of soldiers and they didn't even learn a lesson from this.

Same thing happened in Afghanistan except they didn't get no land

enough said.

[fajfikos]

greeting from Poland for brave Finnish !!

[ToastKinG1996]

My great grandpa was a swedish soldier that helped finnish in the war i am proud of him and all his friends that fighted for finlands freedom!!

[Raven30101979]

Eternal Glory to all soldiers of Red Army who gave their lives for Motherland!Thanks for them we don't have to get visa to visit Vyborg.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Shame on you for making such a misleading and provocative comment; for,

a) Red Army soldiers did NOT defend your motherland with their deaths

b) they ILLEGALLY attacked a SOVEREIGN and peace-loving nation without a warning and UNPROVOKED

c) when you enter Vyborg, you enter a place that DOES NOT belong to you.

d) Vyborg must be immediately returned back to its LEGITIMATE owners the Finns

Ps. You KNOW that what's above is the naked truth, and nothing but the truth.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo

a)They did! If in 1941 Finland atacked from the position thay had in 1939,it would be more difficult to defend Leningrad

b)28.11.39 USSR oficially denounced it's non-atack treatment with Finland

c-d) Territory,we got in 1940 belonged to Russia from 10th century,when Finland didn't exist even in project,so I don't see why Finland can be it's legitimate owner.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 You mean, if a nation of 3.5 million attacked a nation of 184 million with a land-mass some sixty (60!!) time large. Let's get real here. It was a laughable LIE then and aint getting any better however many times is rehearsed.

Secondly, "if in 1941, etc". Er..Finland ATTACKED no one. It merely got its OWN territory back. AND STOPPED AT THE OLD BORDER, and dug in.

So, Red Army "defending L'grad" is a joke. Finns DID NOT attack it. NOT by land. NOT by sea. NOT by air. Period.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Also, England DECLARED WAR on Germany over Poland, and America on Japan because of the Pearl Harbour. BUT, Russians just crossed the border and bombed 18 cities without any prior declaration of war. And why so? Because to do that YOU NEED A REASON. But there was none. For, REFUSAL to surrender a part of YOUR LAND is no legitimate reason for nothing.

And let's not forget the Russians requested a base near the CAPITAL CITY as well. So, "buffer zone" and L'grad is nothing but hogwash

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Karelia etc. territories were never populated by Russians. Those areas always belonged to Finic tribes. They were Novgorodians and Swedes who were intruders and fought over lands belonging to Finic tribes. NATIVES - going back to 4th century AD - spoke neither Swedish nor Russian, but various Finnish dialects.

Saying anything else is as false the content of Stalin's book "The Falsifiers of History".

Should do better. Speaking the truth is a virtue.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo

Since when Petrozavodsk became finnish territory.

Finns didn't stop on the border 1939.And,I repeat that if they atacked us from the border 1939 finns and germans would meet on the east of Ladoga,thus making situation for Leningrad desperate.Finns didn't try to atack Leningrad because they would have lost half of the army in the street battles.They just wanted a hunger in the city to do job for them.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Actually they did - as far as the border opposite to L'grad was concerned (main topic here). Areas further to north; that is another matter, and rather complicated as such.

"if they attacked us from the border 19339" does not wash; for, they did get to the 1939 border, and COULD'VE attacked from there, and continued their EASY walk to L'grad.

Now, by stopping and digging in at their OWN NATIONAL BORDER, how an earth did their God-given birth-right "hunger the city"....NOT so.

[obuBBubo]

@Raven30101979 Since when did Petrozavodsk become Russian territory? Who were the ORIGINAL inhabitants there before Russians occupied it?

North-Karelia's uprising is a known fact. Newly established Finnish government should've helped them at the time.

[Raven30101979]

@obuBBubo

Petrozavodsk was always russian town.Probably you support idea of "Great Finland" up to Urals and claim that all areas where live nationalities relative to finns must become part of Finland.In fact fair border of Finland is border of 1809 when Russia took Finland from Sweden.It was Russia who included Vyborg and other areas into Finland in 1811,so we had any right to demand it back when Finland became independent in 1917.

[Raven30101979]

@Raven30101979

As for "easy walk" to Leningrad,you make a mistake.Even if you managed to capture it,it would cost you half of army.That's why germans also didn't try too much to capture Leningrad.You both wanted it's defenders and civillians to die of starvation,so you would take the city easily.And I repeat,if finns started war from the positions of 1939,they could meet with germans on the east of Ladoga on November 1941,thus cutting last ways for Leningrad supplies.

[koteshub]

If you see a ruski,

Shoot it in its head,

'Cos they're all right WHILE dying,

But better when they're DEAD!

[lintu25]

Vai mitä, omat poikamme huvi ajelulla :D

On noi ollu vesseleitä.

Kiitos.

[luckyowl249]

The lonely Finnish defense & many victories(!!!) against the "glorious Reds" should NEVER be forgotten! Peace is never for nothing!

[JSLegoMaster]

In this battle alone the finnish casualties were around 600 dead while russia lost ca, 15000 men, highest estimatino go over 25000, Its really just breathtaking how well the finns fought, I mean over 20 dead russians for every finn. Thats so dam heroic, Im just proud to have you as my neighbours =)

Greetings form sweden

[KekkonenKalasti]

Huge respects to our war veterans, and my late grandfather, but still I hope we never have to face that situation.

[TroyaE117]

Dark days for Finland.

They had to fight alone against the Russian hordes while the west just talked.

The Finns fought brilliantly.

All they asked was for some decent anti-tank guns.

So the west just talked some more.

[DrMangusti]

@TroyaE117 Yep.

[Xyloni]

@TroyaE117 Actually we were helped by over 8 thousand Swedish voluntary soldiers

[prooijtje]

@Xyloni Sweden is not part of the west, Sweden sent mortars and allowed volunteers to fight in Finland as did the other scandinavian nations, because Finland was the country that stood between them and the Russians

[iStupifyYOU]

@TroyaE117 This war was hell for the Russians

The Finnish soldiers used a tactic ,Finnish motti tactics.

They would literally find big Russian units and pick them off then split the Russians into small groups and just pick away. hit and run guerrilla attacks.

The battle of Raate road. search that

they only lost this war because of the small Finnish army and lack of aid/resources and ect.

[ToweringPillarOfCats]

@TroyaE117 All they got was pretty much a few Molotov cocktails and too big artillery shells.. I'm proud to have family members from this war, my great grandfather got a medal for disabling most tanks, he used random shit such as crowbars, logs and stuff to stop the tanks then throw cocktails or grenades in them, huge respect for my country!

[mrmakemakkara]

SUOMALINEN SOTILAS ON PERIKSIANTAMATON JA KOVA TAISTELIJA JOS SITÄ VAADITAAN

[mt451]

My grand dad was there too. 1./I.JR 27. Wounded to leg by Soviet machine gun on 20.12.1939 at Suomussalmi....

[WhiteWesWelker]

english plz?

[mt451]

@WhiteWesWelker

1 second ago:  My grand dad was there too. 1./I.JR 27. Wounded to leg by Soviet machine gun on 20.12.1939 at Suomussalmi....

[kanervatie]

@WhiteWesWelker The newsreel says:"Our troups have accomplished a great victory in Suomussalmi. Late days of december, the Russian 163rd division was demoslihed in Kianta-lake, with a remarkable amount of pillage.

In the beginning of january, the Russian 44th divison was completely destroyed, all of it's artillery and baggage held as pillage.

Kilometers and kilomters of destroeyd 44th division and what's left of it, filled the "death road" of Raattee."

[kanervatie]

@kanervatie "troups"=troops :)