sorry, but that last sentence ". . .fear of others judgement I'm not has been. . ." should read, ". . . fear of others judgement has been and. . ." The "I'm not" was supposed to be erased.
somewhere down there in the comments you guys were mentioning trans folk, so that's kinda what i was replying to as well as the video. I have also struggled with people seeing me as something I am not and making assumptions based on what they see. Its paradoxical to what I envision a queer community being. To be fully comfortable expressing myself however I want without letting fear of others judgement I'm not has been and continues to be a journey.
thanks for sharing! I guess I'm a year late for this video, oops. One thing I love transfolk for is the questions regarding gender and sexuality that they can force us to ask. i.e. lesbian identified couple with one partner going through a ftm transition leaving the lesbian identified woman questioning her identity. Have you checked out Kate Bornestein? I loved book Gender Outlaw. She rocks! I'm not femme or butch or totally andro either. . .
Ok, Julz?- you're sooo elfishly cute! :) Sorry for the off-topic, but I was squeeing the whole time. And as a femmy, I think you are right. But, hey, humans - troublesome.
Great video! I love that you are so open. I'm a Queer-femme lesbian, how's that for a title? Currently dating a transman who identifies as queer and not straight. There are so many shades of gray out there that everyone has to choose their identity based on themselves, how they feel inside, outside and who they choose to date and who they can't help being attracted to.
I think the diversity in our own community is fascinating. So I do understand what you are saying when you describe who you feel you are... I am just showing you who i am ... I am a butch gender. We are both butch but we are both different in our thoughts ideas and feelings of who we are and that doesnt make either of us wrong in our description of ourselves.
Oh i think your butch. I wouldn't tell you your not butch. What im trying to communicate is sub cultures within our own community. The butch that i am used to just be called butch. As the community has grown, time has passed and more people are coming out. We have developed these sub cultures and of course labels to go along with them. Each one to express our thoughts ideas and feelings about who we are Sexually.
Your cool. I will say though we arent the same butch.. if your a butch that likes other butchs or any other kind of lesbian then your a butch lesbian. Which is cool but different from a butch gender. The butch gender only wants a Femme that understands what it is in its dynamics. The butch gender isnt a female but isnt a man either.. but we dont mind being mistaken for one. We are the bender and the femme that finds us knows exactly what we are thats what makes it so awesomely dynamic.
I don't agree with you on that. If a man liked another man, we wouldnt question the validity of his manhood. Who hes attracted to has nothing to do with his gender. So why would the fact that Im not exclusively attracted to femmes have anything to do with my gender as a butch?
Lesbian is a term used to describe a homosexual woman. I am not a woman. I'm not a man, either. Im a butch. Therefore, I dont see lesbian as an accurate description for me.
Beyond that, I prefer the term queer because I'm attracted to all sorts of queer and/or trans folks. Im comfortable enough with my identity to admit that Im attracted just about everyone except straight cis men (sorry fellas, nothing personal). The fact that Im attracted to Rachel Maddow or my buddy Carson from Trannystar Galactica (duplicatekeys) has absolutely nothing to do with my gender as a butch. If I say Im butch, then I am and Im not about to let anyone tell me otherwise.
Hi, Julz this isnt a comment on this particular video, I am a transwoman myself and religion is an topic of interest to me. It realy caught my ear to hear that you were converting to judaism and I was wanting to know why you are converting? also surely you arnt becoming orthodox because they wouldnt except a gay person born jewish let a lone a transman wanting to convert to the faith. When I was in boy mode I was studying judaism at a local conservative temple and I also thought about converting
Thanks for sharing! Hadn't realised that you'd chosen not to identify as trans. It's similar in some ways to the struggles that I had coming to terms with the fact that I was actually a woman and everyone else seemed to have got it wrong (myself included). Labels are wonderful to identify with but not to be identified without consent. it brings so many misconceptions into the world. The only person who can judge who or what you are is you x
I couldn't agree more. You probably hadn't realized that I don't identify as transsexual because this is a pretty recent development for me. I do like the umbrella term transgender for myself, but that can get a little confusing for people, so I mostly stick to butch and genderqueer. Thanks for your comment.
I personally just like the terms queer because it's ambiguous as I can be. Unless of course, I need to contribute my input in an environment which would be beneficial to do so.
I'm really proud of you to be able to face yourself with sincerity and say "this is how I am". I see transition as self-realisation, regardless of how that may be to anyone else xxx
The labels are a mess, and at time they stretch too far. None of us are freaks or robots, and we're not going to fit into neat little categories just because society wants us to. As a community, we (the Q's) need to stop trying to impose this madness on each other.
We all present what we want to the world, and if they cannot deal with that, eff them. What is this that a lesbian can't look good? Pfft. Nonsense!
Excellent video. I also took much inspiration from the trans community to be who I am - a butch lesbian. It's just WHO I AM and it does give a sense of belonging to know we are not alone, we can be masculine and still want to be women. Thanks for sharing this! Peace!
Thank you for your comment and for subscribing. Thanks for putting yourself out there on youtube, also. I always look forward to watching your videos. Take care.
I can definitely relate to how you feel, but coming from the other side of the spectrum. I have no idea what kind of label might even come close to what I feel inside. All that I do know is that I don't feel like I need to be a woman to feel that my identity is complete. I enjoy "feminine " things but I don't feel as though I am a man or woman, I simply am me. nothing more, nothing less.
I noticed the other day how there is no non-derogatory term for feminine men (just things like "sissy"). It's really sad to me that we live in such a misogynistic society that it's okay for women to express masculinity, but it's seen as perverted or hypersexual when a man expresses femininity. And that's not to say that it's easy to be butch - it's not - but I can see why it would be incredibly difficult to gain recognition and acceptance as a feminine man.
Oddly, though, I HADN'T thought about the point that you brought up, regarding terms for femme men, etc. I like to think that with the Placebo song "Nancy Boy" (and I believe Donovan Leitch also used it as a band name), some UK G/ GQ/ MtF guys were reclaiming that term. "Twink" is another UK term for femme/ gay guys that I HOPE could have positive connotations (although, that's up to UK folks to determine; it's not in use HERE). I just like the sound/ tone of the term, aesthetically!
Zaftig, huh? I've never heard that term before, but you're totally right. We need to get to work on creating some more positive adjectives. I like twink a lot more than nancy boy, but you're right, it's up to the people using it to determine if it's going to be a positive or negative term. Excellent points you bring up, thank you.
Right. And I don't just mean for people to personally choose whether they like a term, but also, since I've only read SMALL amounts of literature from the UK, I'm not sure to what extent these terms HAVE been reclaimed, or are considered insulting to large, or few, gays, femme FTMs, femme GQs, etc.
About 99 % of people think that I'm a man. And when they notice that I'm "girly", then I get mistaken as a gay man. And when I say that I'm a girl, I get people grabbing by "balls" to see if I have any. Nice... :P
It gets really annoying after awhile, right? What makes it worse is when other queer women also think you're a man. It can make the dating scene really rough. I just saw your videos, by the way, and they're great! Thanks for the comment.
Have you seen Eddie Izzard? My immediate reaction to this comment was " 'ello Sue! I've got a French loaf! Do you like bread?" But obviously if you haven't seen Dress to Kill, you won't have any idea what this is. If that's the case, I recommend you check it out.
Exactly! Gender can be very complex and multilayered, so it only makes sense that the ways we express gender are also complex. We're both women and we both enjoy traditionally masculine things at times. That doesn't have anything to do with who we find attractive or how we feel about our bodies, and it certainly doesn't mean we aren't real women or that we are, or want to be, men.
It's good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well.
I wonder if the reason some butch women don't relate that label to gender (and particularly masculinity) is because they already have people mixing that up with wanting to be a guy. I find your take on this interesting (in an earlier video, too) that a woman can embrace masculinity without identifying as or wanting to be seen as a guy, and by implication that a guy (straight or gay) can embrace the feminine without having any desire to be female. Interesting idea to explore.
It's a relatively new concept that sexuality can operate independent of gender, and vice verse. When "butch" was at its peak, that distinction hadn't been made yet, so people assumed that this gender identity came with sexual criteria. I think many people today look at butch and only see what it was understood to be when it was coined, but our knowledge of gender and sexuality has grown since then and I think we should take that knowledge and apply it to terms like butch.
Also, I'm not threatened by the trans folks mixing things up. They inspired me to find my own path and stick to it, no matter how hard it may be. I never would have found my way to the butch identity if it weren't for the support and encouragement of trans folks. I hope that they, in turn, aren't threatened by masculine women or feminine men. I think its a beautiful thing when we can all find our own identities and embrace the differences in others.
Very well said! Bravo. Also, congrats on your own journey in discovering yourself and continually doing so. With that being said, I apologize if I offended you while we are out. At the time, I thought you still ID'd as trans, but may not have been out to everyone. Obviously that's not the case :) So basically, I hope i didn't make you uncomfy...but now i know for next time haha
Haha, no problem at all. Sorry if you were a little bummed I didn't tell you in person or anything. I wanted to take you aside to tell you, but I'm actually pretty hard of hearing and it was just too noisy in the club to have that conversation. Thanks for watching.
Awesome video. And just to add that within butch/femme identities there are femme's that can fix the kitchen sink but can't cook a meal and butches that couldn't tell you who won the football game or even how to play. It's about self-perception and society's labels... and this is getting really long so maybe I just need to make a video.
I think making a video is excellent idea! I know a lot of people think this topic is overdone, but there is so much more that we haven't covered and it's really important that we delve a little deeper into this. Thanks for your comment.
sorry, but that last sentence ". . .fear of others judgement I'm not has been. . ." should read, ". . . fear of others judgement has been and. . ." The "I'm not" was supposed to be erased.
marissaspeer 7 months ago
somewhere down there in the comments you guys were mentioning trans folk, so that's kinda what i was replying to as well as the video. I have also struggled with people seeing me as something I am not and making assumptions based on what they see. Its paradoxical to what I envision a queer community being. To be fully comfortable expressing myself however I want without letting fear of others judgement I'm not has been and continues to be a journey.
marissaspeer 7 months ago
thanks for sharing! I guess I'm a year late for this video, oops. One thing I love transfolk for is the questions regarding gender and sexuality that they can force us to ask. i.e. lesbian identified couple with one partner going through a ftm transition leaving the lesbian identified woman questioning her identity. Have you checked out Kate Bornestein? I loved book Gender Outlaw. She rocks! I'm not femme or butch or totally andro either. . .
marissaspeer 7 months ago
is there such a thing as SOFT BUTCH? is it the same as butch lesbian?
aqstoy 8 months ago
is there such a thing as SOFT BUTCH?
aqstoy 8 months ago
Love the video and the Banksy shirt!
orangerevolt 1 year ago
I love butch women. I always say having a butch is like having a guy without the assholeness.
Imogen1885 1 year ago
Ok, Julz?- you're sooo elfishly cute! :) Sorry for the off-topic, but I was squeeing the whole time. And as a femmy, I think you are right. But, hey, humans - troublesome.
Mav3ricky 1 year ago
love the vid!!! you go girl!!!
schaefferbecky 1 year ago
great video!
OFFICIALINFINITETV 1 year ago
great video!
OFFICIALINFINITETV 1 year ago
Totally right.
AAAlucarde 1 year ago
Great video! I love that you are so open. I'm a Queer-femme lesbian, how's that for a title? Currently dating a transman who identifies as queer and not straight. There are so many shades of gray out there that everyone has to choose their identity based on themselves, how they feel inside, outside and who they choose to date and who they can't help being attracted to.
femmedrea 1 year ago
@femmedrea Thanks for the comment! I'm glad you liked the video.
JulzB525 1 year ago
I think the diversity in our own community is fascinating. So I do understand what you are saying when you describe who you feel you are... I am just showing you who i am ... I am a butch gender. We are both butch but we are both different in our thoughts ideas and feelings of who we are and that doesnt make either of us wrong in our description of ourselves.
DRMweevr 2 years ago
Oh i think your butch. I wouldn't tell you your not butch. What im trying to communicate is sub cultures within our own community. The butch that i am used to just be called butch. As the community has grown, time has passed and more people are coming out. We have developed these sub cultures and of course labels to go along with them. Each one to express our thoughts ideas and feelings about who we are Sexually.
DRMweevr 2 years ago
Your cool. I will say though we arent the same butch.. if your a butch that likes other butchs or any other kind of lesbian then your a butch lesbian. Which is cool but different from a butch gender. The butch gender only wants a Femme that understands what it is in its dynamics. The butch gender isnt a female but isnt a man either.. but we dont mind being mistaken for one. We are the bender and the femme that finds us knows exactly what we are thats what makes it so awesomely dynamic.
DRMweevr 2 years ago
I don't agree with you on that. If a man liked another man, we wouldnt question the validity of his manhood. Who hes attracted to has nothing to do with his gender. So why would the fact that Im not exclusively attracted to femmes have anything to do with my gender as a butch?
Lesbian is a term used to describe a homosexual woman. I am not a woman. I'm not a man, either. Im a butch. Therefore, I dont see lesbian as an accurate description for me.
JulzB525 2 years ago 2
Beyond that, I prefer the term queer because I'm attracted to all sorts of queer and/or trans folks. Im comfortable enough with my identity to admit that Im attracted just about everyone except straight cis men (sorry fellas, nothing personal). The fact that Im attracted to Rachel Maddow or my buddy Carson from Trannystar Galactica (duplicatekeys) has absolutely nothing to do with my gender as a butch. If I say Im butch, then I am and Im not about to let anyone tell me otherwise.
JulzB525 2 years ago
ps. i'm "butch"
TheRoar02able 2 years ago
your so cute!
TheRoar02able 2 years ago
Labels are not important I agree.
Allleslove3 2 years ago
great video- thanks for being such an intelligent voice in support of butch/femme topics. ps you're quite a looker ;)
emisocks 2 years ago 3
"Quite a looker"?!! Hot damn, that just makes my day. Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed the video and I really appreciated this comment.
JulzB525 2 years ago
also were you converting to the conservative or reformed temple?
taekiun 2 years ago
I'm converting to the reformed temple. I'll send you a longer, more detailed private message about why I'm converting soon. Take care.
-Julz
JulzB525 2 years ago
Hi, Julz this isnt a comment on this particular video, I am a transwoman myself and religion is an topic of interest to me. It realy caught my ear to hear that you were converting to judaism and I was wanting to know why you are converting? also surely you arnt becoming orthodox because they wouldnt except a gay person born jewish let a lone a transman wanting to convert to the faith. When I was in boy mode I was studying judaism at a local conservative temple and I also thought about converting
taekiun 2 years ago
youre hot
redsmooch989 2 years ago 2
Thanks for sharing! Hadn't realised that you'd chosen not to identify as trans. It's similar in some ways to the struggles that I had coming to terms with the fact that I was actually a woman and everyone else seemed to have got it wrong (myself included). Labels are wonderful to identify with but not to be identified without consent. it brings so many misconceptions into the world. The only person who can judge who or what you are is you x
mercuryneedle 2 years ago
I couldn't agree more. You probably hadn't realized that I don't identify as transsexual because this is a pretty recent development for me. I do like the umbrella term transgender for myself, but that can get a little confusing for people, so I mostly stick to butch and genderqueer. Thanks for your comment.
JulzB525 2 years ago
I personally just like the terms queer because it's ambiguous as I can be. Unless of course, I need to contribute my input in an environment which would be beneficial to do so.
I'm really proud of you to be able to face yourself with sincerity and say "this is how I am". I see transition as self-realisation, regardless of how that may be to anyone else xxx
mercuryneedle 2 years ago
Thank you so much. I completely agree. Take care.
JulzB525 2 years ago
I know I'm a few days late, but here goes.
The labels are a mess, and at time they stretch too far. None of us are freaks or robots, and we're not going to fit into neat little categories just because society wants us to. As a community, we (the Q's) need to stop trying to impose this madness on each other.
We all present what we want to the world, and if they cannot deal with that, eff them. What is this that a lesbian can't look good? Pfft. Nonsense!
You are one cool bean to me! : )
SugarPinkButterfly 2 years ago
Thanks! I think you're a pretty cool bean, too!
JulzB525 2 years ago
Excellent video. I also took much inspiration from the trans community to be who I am - a butch lesbian. It's just WHO I AM and it does give a sense of belonging to know we are not alone, we can be masculine and still want to be women. Thanks for sharing this! Peace!
MainelyButch 2 years ago
Thank you for your comment and for subscribing. Thanks for putting yourself out there on youtube, also. I always look forward to watching your videos. Take care.
JulzB525 2 years ago
I can definitely relate to how you feel, but coming from the other side of the spectrum. I have no idea what kind of label might even come close to what I feel inside. All that I do know is that I don't feel like I need to be a woman to feel that my identity is complete. I enjoy "feminine " things but I don't feel as though I am a man or woman, I simply am me. nothing more, nothing less.
rvbgeek 2 years ago
I noticed the other day how there is no non-derogatory term for feminine men (just things like "sissy"). It's really sad to me that we live in such a misogynistic society that it's okay for women to express masculinity, but it's seen as perverted or hypersexual when a man expresses femininity. And that's not to say that it's easy to be butch - it's not - but I can see why it would be incredibly difficult to gain recognition and acceptance as a feminine man.
JulzB525 2 years ago
Bit off topic, J, but it's pretty similar with "curvy"
women. That adjective, and (one I like) "zaftig,"
are about the ONLY positive adjectives for fat/
non-skinny females (who I happen to think are
as good-looking as ANY demographic there is).
thebeardedtraveler 2 years ago
thebeardedtraveler 2 years ago
Zaftig, huh? I've never heard that term before, but you're totally right. We need to get to work on creating some more positive adjectives. I like twink a lot more than nancy boy, but you're right, it's up to the people using it to determine if it's going to be a positive or negative term. Excellent points you bring up, thank you.
JulzB525 2 years ago
Right. And I don't just mean for people to personally choose whether they like a term, but also, since I've only read SMALL amounts of literature from the UK, I'm not sure to what extent these terms HAVE been reclaimed, or are considered insulting to large, or few, gays, femme FTMs, femme GQs, etc.
thebeardedtraveler 2 years ago
About 99 % of people think that I'm a man. And when they notice that I'm "girly", then I get mistaken as a gay man. And when I say that I'm a girl, I get people grabbing by "balls" to see if I have any. Nice... :P
SelfEducatedArtist 2 years ago
It gets really annoying after awhile, right? What makes it worse is when other queer women also think you're a man. It can make the dating scene really rough. I just saw your videos, by the way, and they're great! Thanks for the comment.
JulzB525 2 years ago
you're hot.
more thoughts later.
8aBoyNamedSue8 2 years ago
Why thank you very much. I look forward to hearing them.
I'm still pondering other things that I left out of this, so I'll probably be sending you another video sometime in the near future. Take care.
JulzB525 2 years ago
yup.
i'm as eloquent as a 14-year-old boy sometimes...
the adult women in me will get back to you soon... hah!
8aBoyNamedSue8 2 years ago
Haha, don't worry, take your time.
Have you seen Eddie Izzard? My immediate reaction to this comment was " 'ello Sue! I've got a French loaf! Do you like bread?" But obviously if you haven't seen Dress to Kill, you won't have any idea what this is. If that's the case, I recommend you check it out.
JulzB525 2 years ago
RIGHT ON!
112% agree!
i'm a tomboy trans woman, with doesn't always go over will with other in my community.
I drive a 4x4 truck, and i like power tools! but i also like to be a girl, SO :p
pigpen7471 2 years ago
Exactly! Gender can be very complex and multilayered, so it only makes sense that the ways we express gender are also complex. We're both women and we both enjoy traditionally masculine things at times. That doesn't have anything to do with who we find attractive or how we feel about our bodies, and it certainly doesn't mean we aren't real women or that we are, or want to be, men.
It's good to hear from you! I hope you're doing well.
JulzB525 2 years ago
I wonder if the reason some butch women don't relate that label to gender (and particularly masculinity) is because they already have people mixing that up with wanting to be a guy. I find your take on this interesting (in an earlier video, too) that a woman can embrace masculinity without identifying as or wanting to be seen as a guy, and by implication that a guy (straight or gay) can embrace the feminine without having any desire to be female. Interesting idea to explore.
rivenrock 2 years ago
It's a relatively new concept that sexuality can operate independent of gender, and vice verse. When "butch" was at its peak, that distinction hadn't been made yet, so people assumed that this gender identity came with sexual criteria. I think many people today look at butch and only see what it was understood to be when it was coined, but our knowledge of gender and sexuality has grown since then and I think we should take that knowledge and apply it to terms like butch.
JulzB525 2 years ago
Also, I'm not threatened by the trans folks mixing things up. They inspired me to find my own path and stick to it, no matter how hard it may be. I never would have found my way to the butch identity if it weren't for the support and encouragement of trans folks. I hope that they, in turn, aren't threatened by masculine women or feminine men. I think its a beautiful thing when we can all find our own identities and embrace the differences in others.
Thank you for your thought provoking comment.
JulzB525 2 years ago
awe you always amaze :)
ininkplease 2 years ago
:D Always happy to please.
JulzB525 2 years ago
Very well said! Bravo. Also, congrats on your own journey in discovering yourself and continually doing so. With that being said, I apologize if I offended you while we are out. At the time, I thought you still ID'd as trans, but may not have been out to everyone. Obviously that's not the case :) So basically, I hope i didn't make you uncomfy...but now i know for next time haha
thegaymaker 2 years ago
Haha, no problem at all. Sorry if you were a little bummed I didn't tell you in person or anything. I wanted to take you aside to tell you, but I'm actually pretty hard of hearing and it was just too noisy in the club to have that conversation. Thanks for watching.
JulzB525 2 years ago
PS - Go to bed, dude! It's three in the morning! (I should be talking, right?)
JulzB525 2 years ago
Awesome video. And just to add that within butch/femme identities there are femme's that can fix the kitchen sink but can't cook a meal and butches that couldn't tell you who won the football game or even how to play. It's about self-perception and society's labels... and this is getting really long so maybe I just need to make a video.
TheMrSamAaron 2 years ago
I think making a video is excellent idea! I know a lot of people think this topic is overdone, but there is so much more that we haven't covered and it's really important that we delve a little deeper into this. Thanks for your comment.
JulzB525 2 years ago