GOP Congressman: If Healthcare Bill Is So Fabulous, Why Criminalize Those Who Want To Opt-Out?

[pmesser1]

The NAZIs aren't coming, they are already here! 5 years in jail because you do not want Obama & Pelosi's crap. These fascist pigs need to go. Judge Andrew Napolitano gives it straight at /watch?v=7n2m-X7OIuY

[smilingseal]

If you want to get technical...during presidential elections, the president said consitently he would start withdrawing on 2010 from Iraq considering conditions on the ground. so far is steady as she goes.

On Afghanistan, he actually proposed to beef up and focus there,,,well is is now focused, he has sent more troops, and is considering condition in the ground, the whole picture. McCain would have already sent 100,000 more, more of the same. Now...wait...watch ...learn.

[smilingseal]

I have a suggestion for NCMan28025 and the rest of the repub-nos....

why dont we bring our troops back from the invasions in the middle east, and save us 10 billion per month and save the future consequensial cost associated with post deployment. That woud cut into your war mongering.

he he

[righteouschops]

Hey the Dems are in control now, why don't they bring the troops back? I thought that's what they said they were going to do. The Republicans can't stop them. The Dems have the majority in the house and the senate and the presidency. Don't blame the republicans because the dems can't get anything done.

[work4thewicked]

because the reality my friend is that democrats and republicans are for the most part....the same people with the same end result interests

[NCMan28025]

I have a question for Botox Pelosi and Obama. "How about saving us taxpayers $1 Trillion dollars now and just lock up those who refuse to pay for their own health insurance?" Oops, I forgot. That would cut into the Democrats voting block. My bad!

[Loathomar]

Isn't that some what the idea behind this, what the speaker said was BS because you do not need to have the government insurance to have the possibility being locked up, just need to have health insurance in some way shape or form. You already have insurance? Great, your fine. You don't have insurance and can't afford it? The government can help. You don't have insurance and can afford it, but don't want to get it? Too bad, we don't want to pay for your ER bills when you get very sick.

[smilingseal]

to mjnr7777:

that is all you got? I agree to disagree with you. go ahead and send your hard earned money to invade countries, drop bombs, kill innocent people.....(10 billion a month )

I rather send my hard earned money to help those in need, build our own country, education, and take care of those vets who you voted to send to get fucked in the field. At least have the decency to support bills like the GI bill...wich your buddy McCain nickled and dime, and on R-senator is blcoking

[NCMan28025]

What party is anti-military and has been throughout history? I love how you liberals jump off topic and attempt to change the discussion. This video is about a government mandate that is unconstitutional. It is a mandate that if private citizens refuse Pelosi/ObamaCare, you face fines and jail-time. Pay attention and stay on topic

[Loathomar]

Ya, it is horrible that government is forcing people to pay for a service they get even if they don't pay for it. I figure, I don't need to pay tons of money for health insurance, if I don't have savings so if I get sick I can go to an ER and they must treat me. When I can't pay, the price just gets past on to others. That a far system, right?

BTW, no you can not tell MD not to treat dieing ppl in the ER if they don't have insurance. Most MD will quit before going through with that.

[RoflMoar]

The title of this video says it all.

[megarational]

The newest meme of opposition to the health insurance plan is that if you don't obey the individual mandate to purchase health insurance, you will be criminalized and go to jail.

This is false.

read on...

[megarational]

Section 501 of the House bill imposes a tax of 2.5%of adjusted gross income. You are exempted from the tax if you already have qualifying h. insur. from employer, if you receive benefits from Medicare or Medicaid, if you are a dependent, if you are overseas, and if you have religions objections. You also get subsidies in the form of tax credits and tax deductions if your income is below a certain level; and if you are in poverty you are already exempted because you participate in Medicaid.

[megarational]

If you are not exempted, and you don't purchase health insurance, you just pay a higher tax. You don't go to jail.

Now, if you refuse to pay your taxes, the government will fine you in the same way that it does whenever you refuse to pay your taxes. Prison is also a possibility for the most determined tax cheats, although generally speaking prison terms are reserved for the most egregious violations of the tax laws.

[dtmbcorp]

Let em try to take me to jail.

[Loathomar]

lolz, it would be funny. Can you have someone record it and post it on youtube? What are you going to do? Shoot at the cops? That always turns out well for people...

[southparkgdp]

Every Government program or institution blows budgets and never accomplishes what it sets out to do. It never beats private enterprise. To sacrifice what we have in the off-chance that they may get it right this time is beyond foolish. To quote P.J. O'Rourke, "If you think something costs a lot now, wait until the government gives it away for free."

Ignore the sycophants. Hang on to what the rest of the world envies, America.

[MarkG45]

weve had private enterprise for the last 70 years. Today we have about 1/5 people in America uninsured and a large percentage of that denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.

What is your solution for those the insurance industry refuses to cover? Let them die of cancer because no one wants to pick up the tab? There is no free market solution, healthcare is a human right, and it has to be supported by tax dollars to prevent any shortcomings of the private market.

[klim8hokes]

With all due respect...

Health care is NOT a human right. Human rights are not granted by other humans. Health care is a product. A product produced by the labor of another person. You have no right to lay claim to the labor of another. You want to talk about rights? Freedom is a right. Your right t be free includes my right to be free from you.

[49bigguy]

The constitution guarantees you the right to purchase health care, not to have it provided for you.

The free market solution, like always, will be COMPETITION. The government restricts us from purchasing across state lines. This limits competition. When we can purchase from anyone we choose, people will choose those companies that will cover pre-existing conditions. And because it is the #2 issue with Americans, there will be dozens of companies that will offer it to get a larger market share.

[49bigguy]

The people who want Obama care are proof positive that even the psychologically damaged are allowed to own computers. How did these idiots get through high school government class?

[ObamaEqualsStupid]

Ever wonder why Wal-Mart supports this bill? Because it will put small business out of business, more customers for Wal-Mart.

[jfoges4]

i want to hear what the other side had to say in response. Does anyone know where that video might be?

[MarkG45]

the same fucking reason you have to have car insurance.

the same fucking reason.

[mjnr7777]

Those are state mandates idiot! And riddle me this dummy........why is it that out of state autos are not required to have/ show proof of insurance in all states?

Example.....driver from Wisconsin rear- ends a driver in Illinois. WI driver has no proof of insurance......Illinois requires insurance on vehicles registered in Illinois ONLY.....can't issue a ticket to WI driver with WI plates on car.

Your logic sucks!

[Greg78X]

Thats about 100% wrong.

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

@mjnr7777 I just looked and Wisconsin has a Minimum Liability Law.

LOL but come here to Texas and just get pulled over and not have no Minimum Liability Coverage, you car gets towed from the spot. You don't just get a ticket. You not allowed to drive away without any coverage. A cop would be breaking the law if he did, By allowing to to drive without coverage.

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

(CONT) but that coverage only covers the other person. But when It comes to healthcare it only covers you(and or your family).

[mjnr7777]

You are wrong, but I guess reality In your mind is right....according to you.

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

@MarkG45 the insurance companies lobby congree to mandate car insurance. Drive the price of full coverage from $35 a month to $145 an month. now they have lobbied congress to mandate health insurance. And Obama has listen to them. he will use this as a way to have a total government healthcare plan.

[MarkG45]

youre an idiot if you dont understand why everyone who drives a car needs car insurance. and its the same argument for why we all need health insurance

[jeffmagic32]

Wrong. First, we don't need car insurance. But the argument that we do need it comes from the fact that your car can harm somebody else, or somebody else's property. Second, car insurance mandates are state law, not federal. The Constitution gives the states far more power than it gives the feds to limit our individual rights.

[49bigguy]

Only people who have cars have to carry insurance. I do not have a right to a car so I have to follow the rules to drive. I have a right to my life and therefore the government cannot force me to purchase insurance.

Markg45, if that isn't clear to you, you are a hopelessly ignorant moron. And you will remain in that state until you read and understand the constitution.

[smilingseal]

Republicans...you had your chance.

Now if you still dont want to dance...'than get the fk out the way. Watch and learn.

[mjnr7777]

You're the same idiot comlaining about 8 years of Bush.......WTF, 10 months of Obama!!!!!!!! 2010 will really hurt you Libs.

[MastaHack2]

I really don't understand how this will lower healthcare costs...when has regulation ever lowered the cost of any good or service? NEVER.

[endisnighe]

First thing when they pass the bill, I will go to the local police department and tell them in absolute terms that I will not buy any insurance.

Throw me in jail. I want to suck on the gov tit for a while. Get me some free quarters, free food , free health care.

25% of the US is unemployed. Looks like the beginning of the end of this country.

Nice going Repubs and Dems.

Fracking idiots.

[eightbitgnosis]

This man speaks truth

[myteewhytee]

The government should not take over the health insurance industry. All they can do is fuck it up and make things worse.

Medicare already loses $60 billion per year to theft, and they can't stop it. The theft from a public option program would be even larger. Yes folks, there are a lot of people out there who make a great living stealing directly from our paychecks.

[49bigguy]

172677... you are THE stupidest son-of-a-bitch I have ever read on the internet! Do you have to try to be that ignorant, or does it come naturally?

[172677]

I'm not a "son", being female.

Boy, I love to rile you jackasses up. What a bunch of dummies.....

[49bigguy]

Lady, no one is riled up.....you're simply a curiosity is all.

[172677]

HA!!!! You should see my "inbox" after a few comments on here.

All the tinhatters of the Cracker nation send along their hate, racism, bigotry and ignorance......

Proves my point that there will always be 20% of our population who should be in a sanitarium somewhere under lock and key.

[49bigguy]

That proves nothing. These people are simply rattling your cage to watch you growl.

Your are clearly ignorant of the purpose of the constitution. You probably think the constitution guarantees your rights don't you?

[172677]

Oh, contraire.......

My "cage" is firmly rooted in America.... Having been an activist all my life from the 60's through today, I know that there are those who would usurp our Constitution and remove our rights.

Theyy are called "Republicans" and the Bush administration almost completed the job of destroying my country.

We've taken care of that quite nicely....and the GOP has destroyed itself by eating it's young.

They are part of the past......and they've taken the tinhatters along

[49bigguy]

Provide the list of freedoms you don't have today that you did have before Bush.

And the constitution doesn't give rights to anyone. Our rights are inalienable. The constitutions main purpose is to LIMIT THE GOVERNMENT. Forcing Americans to purchase a commodity (Obama care) is a bigger breech our all of our freedoms than anything the Bush administration ever did. His affected terrorists, Obama's will restrict the right of choice of EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN.

[172677]

So, you don't agree with mandatory car insurance either, then.

And, what you know about the Constitution....is not much.

I point you to Amendments 1-10 AKA the Bill of Rights...and to 11-27 which includes the Civil Rights clause and outlaws slavery.

Don't play constitutional scholar with me....you don't know what you're talking about, numbskull.

[49bigguy]

What a idiot! Car insurance is only mandatory for PEOPLE WHO OWN CARS!

Men are born with INALIENABLE rights. That means that we have them no matter what the constitution or and other document says. The rest of the constitution is about limiting the governments intrusion into those rights.

You REALLY think slaves don't have any rights other than what the constitution gives them? It's no wonder you are so keen on forcing people to buy a commodity. You couldn't get through high school government!

[172677]

Well, considering that about 770 people out of 1000 own at least one car and 40% own 2 or more.....that's not a good example. Fact is, car insurance is mandatory.

And, young as you seem to be, you need to know that ALL humans are born with those "unalienable" rights...not just men.

And, for your information, that word and phrase is NOT from the Constitution; it is from the Declaration of Independence.

You must be a fan of Sen Boehner. He doesn't know one from the other either.

[49bigguy]

Car insurance is mandatory for PEOPLE WHO OWN CARS. Driving is not a right. Therefore, you moron, it can be heavily regulated. My right to NOT purchase any product cannot be regulated by any reading of the constitution.

The Declaration of independence is "any other document" stupid ass.

[Ytaker]

Which constitutional right has Bush taken from you? Be precise.

Also yeah... they should shield people from jail penalties. The democrats should just put an amendment in to ban anyone from going to jail over it. I doubt they want people to go to jail. Stealing their money works just as well. I wonder why they don't.

[172677]

Right to privacy by illegal wiretapping, accessing emails of private citizens, collecting private computer communications, monitoring private phone calls and other acts..without reason or warrants. That would be the 4th Amendment. They also ignores FISA, invaded and declared war on a sovereign nation (only Congress can declare war--Article 1. They deceived we, the people and Congress by lying. They banned the press from meetings that should be public.

I could go on...but no more room.

[49bigguy]

You're right. Your 4th amendments rights are gone because Obama has expanded on Bush's wiretapping policy. He did it quietly, but none the less, he did it.

[172677]

No, Obama has kept wiretapping in place....legally.....by using FISA....

Bush and his gang of crooks totally bypassed FISA...and broke the law doing it....and didn't give a crap.

FISA permits wiretapping only with sufficient cause....

[Ytaker]

Obama kept on wiretapping. His people in Jewel v. NSA even said that the U.S. Government is completely immune from litigation for illegal spying. Understandably, as he doesn't want Americans to die. It's hardly destroying America if a few radical muslims are spied on. It's a commonsense exemption, that both republicans and democrats accept.

Congress passed the House Joint Resolution 114, declaring war on iraq, with 82 aye votes from democrats.

And which ones? Though that is minor.

[172677]

Hey, jackass....Res 114 is NOT a declaration of war....it is an authorization for extended engagement....

The argument about illegal wiretapping is still in litigation...it has not been settled.

Wiretapping continues....as it always has...the difference now is FISA is being used again... Bush bypassed FISA in order to spy on Americans for any reason he and Cheney decided was valid.

FISA prevents that. There must be a valid reason to wiretap anyone......

[49bigguy]

172677,

Just exactly how stupid are you? Don't you realize that every single bull shit claim you make can be fact checked with a Google search in a few seconds? lmao!

H.J. Res 114...

"To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq."

"This joint resolution may be cited as the `Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002'."

That is war idiot.

[172677]

You are the dumass......

Congress hasn't declared war since the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor at the beginning of WWI.

Like Korea, Vietnam, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan and others, congress resolved that armed forces could be used.....to the detriment of all involve, I might add.

Authorized use of armed forces is NOT a declaration of war...even though Bush and his gang of thugs pushed it that way.

YOU are the one who needs to study the different between the two, bub.

[Ytaker]

Insulting me reveals more about you than me, and, the constitution doesn't say how they have to declare war. They made the authorization for war. They didn't see any substantive difference between that and declaring it. Bush was the commander in chief of the military, after all.

With Obama for illegal wiretapping, he's not acquiring authorizations from FISA. He doesn't actually have to tell them who he's wiretapping, or why. He and Bush were together supporting that bill.

[172677]

Like it or not, the President cannot declare war. He can ask for Congress to get involved and, with good reason, ask for a declaration of war. He can ask Congress for permission to send troops to another country without the declaration. That's what happened in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. Unfortunately, by the time the Bush/Cheney/Rummy lies were revealed, 4000 Americans were dead and untold Iraqis. There was NO declaration of war.....Only Congress can declare war, NOT the President.

[2010GOP]

172677:

Ah --- thank you for revealing how ignorant you are

LMAO at the idiots who say "Bush Lied" about WMDs in Iraq.  Funny that Democrats said the same thing in 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002

Funny no one talks about Clinton's Bosnia involvement (you know -- a country that never harmed us); 100's of thousands of dead or displaced civilians

Dead American Soldiers on Clinton's watch = 4,417

[Ytaker]

An authorization of force is an acceptable deceleration of war. The writers of the constitution left it deliberately ambiguous, using declare rather than make war, because they realized that the president was the only person who could effectively carry it out. The supreme court supports it as legal.

And now, Iraq is relatively peaceful, and going towards becoming a stabilizing force for the middle east, a democracy among hosts of autocracies.

[172677]

I'm no longer going to debate this issue with you....it's like having a conversation with a table leg.

And, if you think Iraq is peaceful, you've been watching too much Clusterfox entertainment channel.

[Ytaker]

You mean, me challenging your points, with facts, and you insulting me, and not particularly refuting my points? To be honest, I'd more classify that as, you being utterly partisan and just refusing to see reality- that Obama is not that different from Bush, on security and corruption and military matters.

You know, Obama is considering a surge, similar to Iraq's, to help make afghanistan as peaceful as Iraq? Because the organizer of 9/11 was shielded there. He's trying to make it stable.

[172677]

And, I guess you're not up on H.R. 3846, the FISA Amendments Act, huh???

[Ytaker]

The amendment which hasn't passed yet? I'm not debating based on something which doesn't exist in law.

[49bigguy]

172677,

You have been completely schooled on the war issue. Which by the way, was your way of changing the subject you were also getting schooled on.

You liberals are the most ignorant group of loons to ever open your mouths.

[172677]

Ya know, no matter how many times I read your little missive, I have no clue what you are trying to say.

Endemic among the tinhatters.....lots of words and phrases with no message.

[49bigguy]

Bwahahahaha!!!

[49bigguy]

Hey...I bet the health care in jail will be better than Obama care. At least there will be federal judges to force them to give us the best health care possible.

[irisojects]

It really was bothering me on why the government would want to put you in jail over health care. what would be the motivation? With Obama/Pelosi/Reid there is always an agenda. Lets try this one on for size, when you do a drug crime you forfeit your property and cash or the IRS can come in and seize your assets. I would not doubt that is what will happen otherwise how will they fund this monstrosity?

[stracinsrt4]

Looks like the government shills are posting. Tread harshly free men.

[RobertMergupis]

172677, you really show your ignorance about taxation, as far as the public roads I pay my "FAIR SHARE" every time I buy gas. Thats right that is where they get the money for the public roads!

Do your self a favor before you come on here educate your self. The Grace Commission Reports expose all the facts about where the money goes, and it is not to public roads!

[RetSquid]

'Grace Commission Report"

Have you ever actually read it?

[172677]

I suggest you check Title 23 of the Code of Federal regulations.... Highways and public roads are ALL regulated by the Fed, supported by fuel taxes and by the budgetary process.

So, if you insist on no "gummint" involvement in your life, clear your own roads and use only those that you build yourself.....

[mjnr7777]

Try again.....not ALL roads are regulated by the Govt.

[172677]

You are parsing words.

The fact is that ALL public utilities, MOST roads and highways, ALL public schools, colleges and universities, ALL transportation systems and more are subsidized and regulated by the government.

If government funding was completely removed from states, they would all collapse and be turned into instanct 3rd world countries.

Those who beat their chests simply don't know a thing about much at all.....you don't think, you have no perspective. Ya just blab, blab, blab

[MrSTANDFORAMERICA]

Yeah you are nuts. As well as you're no where close to being 68. Pretty much makes you a liar. And like Obama and him being a all out liar.

your so fucking dumb you think the federal government funds the roads, schools, police dept,fire dept. In the city I live in.

Funny that at our last city meeting so dink came in thinking like that. "why don't we use the federal governments money to bulid that new school we need".

He was laughed out of the meeting.

Dumb ass.

[172677]

You poor clueless schmuck. Are you not aware that ALL states receive Federal money for many, many programs...roads and highways are just one...think public schools and universities, power companies public utilities, educational grants.

There is no end to the ignorance of you tinhatters. You really need to read a book once in a while and stop watch that trashy Fox channel.

America has been dumbing down for years.....and you're just another idiot.

[Laurainelmj]

Your comments are humorous to me 172677 - classic case of hit and run, no guts to see anything through. Do you own a business? Have you ever had to meet a payroll? Have you ever had to let someone go?

[Laurainelmj]

Please read the bill 172677 as you ask others to do...you have not...Sec 202 (p 91-92) requires you to sign up for a "qualified plan" - not your current plan or your employers plan. What is a qualified plan? Sec. 224 (p 118) govt has 18 months after bill becomes law to decide what a "qualified plan" will cover and what it will cost. Sign up first then we'll tell you how it's run. If you do not sign up...Sec. 59b-fines. Typical govt run garbage. Nothing they do runs better than private industry.

[argophontes]

Even without thinking about the politics of all this nonsense, those that support this bill need to stop and think: When was the last time something became better when the government ran it?

[jcruenv]

How can there possibly be liberty and justice for all, when, in the name of justice, people claim rights to income, food, housing, education, health care, transportation, ad infinitum? We cant. Positive rights to receive such things, absent an obligation to earn them, must violate others liberty, by taking some of their income without their consent. - Prof. Gary Galles of Pepperdine University

[Soonerliberty]

Good luck arguing with those who think they are entitled to all things as long as others pay for it. And this is from people who don't understand that the Constitution is a document of negative rights for a reason. Had the founders, who were overwhelmingly classical liberals and fearful of government-run anything, wanted such a system, they could've just declared a king of progress.

[jcruenv]

"king of progress"

Don't give Team Obama any ideas ;)

[jmangell]

The Democrat's bill is nothing more than a government takeover. Nothing else.

172677. Really? What do you refute in his statement? The fact that you'll be fined and sent to jail if you don't buy insurance? It's in the bill.

[172677]

Another tinhatter response from somebody not smart enough to understand what the bill says....

Intellectual midgets usually get their "news" from other tinhatters and teabaggers, listening to rumors and ignorance spew forth.

Read the damn bill, moron.

[Thuferin]

everytime I put something like this on another forum,.. I get verbally abused with comments like, you have no imagination and all you can do is cut and paste." I wonder why they don't like me posting other viewpoints?

[bigkeys72]

THIS RIGHT-WING NUTJOB IS GETTING HIS TALKING POINTS FROM FOX NEWS - REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL EXTREMISTS...I LOVE YOU OBAMA I LOVE OBAMA!!! (Extreme Sarcasm)

[btwall60]

point taken

[bigdogsdontbark]

Mr. Roskam has my support

[herodotall]

Can we talk about Obama's constitutional ineligiblility instead?

With unemployment the way it is, we may need to build some new prisons to house

those who can't afford healthcare?

[172677]

Mans a dumass.....

Guess he doesn't know about Medicare, huh? If you don't take a "prescription" plan on Medicare and decide to do it later, you pay a fine.

Where has he been for the last couple of years....

It was his "leader" Bush who did that one......

[myteewhytee]

That's a stupid argument. You won't be prosecuted and locked up in jail in that situation -- and the "fine" is actually just a higher premium. If you decide to never participate, you never have to pay it.

[172677]

Neither will any other American. Insurance will be REQUIRED and will be made available to ALL. Just like car insurance, you will be required to be insured so the rest of us don't have to pay for your medical bills....

Too bad if you don't like it...it's done.....

[Zoklor]

Your dumb 172677, it will be made available to all? Really? Wth this bill people will be less likely to be able to BUY insurance. There are so many taxes in this bill it will shrink our economy and run small business into the ground. How exactly is that going to make it available to all. seriously, people like you really make me sick because you fail to realize the reality of this bill.

[172677]

You are only parroting what Fox and the teabaggers have to say....and the disgruntled do-nothing Republicans.

You haven't listened to a thing about the actual bill.....or read it.....

So, adjust your tinhat, and try to think.

[Zoklor]

Are you kidding me 172677? It is quite obvious you are bought off intellectually. Try to remember what you learned in school about this country, try and think what makes us the greatest nation. Try to understand the principles of our constitution and declaration of independence. We are free to make it for ourselves, not to have a govt dictate the daily thngs in our lives. Where do you get off thinking that fox has brainwashed me when I actually can understand what freedom is, unlike you.

[captquest1]

Your right on Zoklor, but it's like talking to zombies. They just don't understand about the founding principles. If have adhered to those principles for the last century, we would not be facing these problems in the first place. We may have an economy that actually works . Where working people could afford their own health care and it would be affordable for most. What a concept. And politicians would be accountable for corruption and tax fraud, like this asswipe Rengel

[172677]

You are simply another lunatic cog in the wheel of disenfranchised, fearful and ignorant tinhatters who are so easily influenced by those to whom you feel inferior.

Anyone who watches Fox and takes anything they say seriously is intellectually deficient.

If the shoe fits......

[Zoklor]

typical, faced with any sort of factual debate, the liberal tries to smear their opponent. I see it over and over on TV. The libs always revert to race card or attacking opponents when faced with the fact their policies do not make sense.

[172677]

So far, I haven't noticed any factual debate here....or most other places on YouTube.

It's just a place to whizz through, upsetting the tinhatters, calling out the nonsense, making fun of the Cracker nation, laughing at the teabaggers and overpowering the incredibly gullible, ignorant folks who populate this forum....

It's entertainment.....and an interesting place to reinforce the fact that 20% of our population are dumb as a box of rocks.

[bobjon38]

Yes I agree that obamabots are dumb as a box of rocks.

[Soonerliberty]

It always baffles me why anyone would call others who wish to be left alone by the those who claim to be able to run our lives better than us intellectually deficient. Wouldn't it be more accurate to claim that those who trust the "experts" who have brought us 53 trillion in unfunded entitlement programs and a falling dollar with coming inflation drink at the teat of the endless bureaucratic nightmare that is planning? Such intellectual arrogance is stunning.

[Soonerliberty]

How smart do you have to be realize that big government by planners, no matter how genius they are, doesn't work? One look at history, economic theory, or just plain common sense would tell you that trusting those who plan our lives is a fallacy of massive proportions. I'm sure Julius Caesar, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc. believed that if people would just trust them, everything would be okay. Look how that turned out. That's progress folks! Shut your mouth and accept progress towards tyranny!

[172677]

So, I imagine you "wanting to be left alone" have not attended Public schools, driven on public roads and freeways, never called upon local police or fire departments.

You have no plans to attend any state or national University, don't drive any Fed regulated car or ride in a Fed regulated airline. You don't consume any Fed regulated food or meat, go to any Fed regulated national parks and otherwise avoid anything the govt is involved in.

Grow up, moron...better yet, THINK!!

[Soonerliberty]

Thank you for proving my point. It's almost impossible to get around the government monopolies. Most of those were private until the late 19th century. Government has appropriated or expropriated almost all of those areas of the economy, and just look at the results. Lower competition and higher prices. By their own measures, they have failed miserably. But, of course, we can always put in a plan to fix the plan that was put into place to fix the old plan ad infinitum.

[Soonerliberty]

And yes, I think those institutions are all violations of my liberty. If I do attend a public school, I have no choice in the state-run curriculum. Whether you're atheist or religious, this is a violation of choice. And either way I have to pay for it through involuntary taxation. If I get screwed over by the police, where do I turn? To the same police or to the courts, both of which are run by the state? Insert health care, and you have the same results. Or will it also be run by angels?

[172677]

While you obviously have not attended school, should you decide to, there are plenty of private schools where you pay as you go and they accept NO Federal or State funding.

If you don't like paying taxes for services...then move to China.......they do everything for you and it doesn't cost a thing.

Except freedom, of course.....

[Soonerliberty]

Actually, I have lived in China, Russia, and I now live in Europe, all places leftism has destroyed. Here in Germany, these so-called "services" cost everyone 50% of their earnings. Effects? A state going bankrupt and barely enough to survive on. Sound familiar? It should. It's exactly what the twins Bush and Obama have lead us to.

It's funny that you think there is actually a choice in paying taxes. Your blatant ignorance is alarming and shows why we ended up with a Bush and Obama.

[Soonerliberty]

I assume that you are a product of the public schools, given your blind adherence to tribalist thought (origin of racism, sexism, etc.), economic illiteracy, and poor diction. You're probably a feminist who is bitter and blames the world for your own mistakes. Or perhaps you're one of these sick people who believes communism would've worked with your brilliant leadership. And when you fail, you reach into other people's pockets for justice. Like Ron White says, "You can't fix stupid."

[172677]

China, Russia? Leftism? You're an idiot. 

One way or another, everyone in the US wlll be required to have health insurance. If you don't like it, move to Brazil.....

As an American citizen, you, like everyone else, will pay for the privilege. There's no such thing as a free lunch here.

Of course, you could always become a welfare queen or king, suck off the tit of the taxpayers in our country.

[padseenoodle]

Great debating points! r u mad bro?

[172677]

I'm not a "bro", being female.

And, the rambling by the tinhatters, teabaggers and the Cracker nation hasn't made me mad in 68 years... They are, however, a great source of humor.

And, I LOVE to step right in and get you wingnuts all riled up...it's soooo easy.

I know I've hit the tinhat paydirt when my email starts filling up with ignorant and fearful responses. I hang around awhile for the fun of it..then move on.....

[padseenoodle]

I think maybe you're just a little mad. The whole not responding to arguments and your ad hominems are what tipped me off. Just a guess though, wouldn't want to be an absolutist like all those people you deride!

[172677]

Not mad at all. Healthcare bill has passed the House, it will pass the Senate, life is good.

As Barney Franks so aptly put it, I don't respond to or argue with table legs...which is predominantly featured on this forum.

I just come here to piss you guys off...you're so easy.....it works so well.

[ReVoLo0shiN]

Is Obama different than Bush? Look at what he has done.... Are you blind my friend??

This is all part of a bigger agenda...

There is no Left or Right...

There is no Dem or Pub...

Its much more complex...

Those of us who are awake wont let them complete there plan..

172677 do some research on the Federal Reserve.. Might help you in your quest for truth!

[172677]

Yes, Obama is different from the idiot child Bush...Bush is as dumb as a box of rocks, for starters.

He also is directly responsible for the deaths of over 4000 Americans due to his illegal invasion of a sovereign nation.... He usurped the Constitution, destroyed relationships with our allies, ignored the will of the American people, made his buddies rich with no-bid contracts and let the criminal Cheney ruin the Justice Department....and that's just for starters

[RobertMergupis]

And Obama keeps it going?

[172677]

You have no idea of any "agenda". You tinhatters only listen to what the morons on Fox have to say. You're filled with hate, bigotry and can't stand that a black man is the President.'

\

You know nothing about politics, the Constitution, Bill of Rights.....and absolutely nothing about the banking system.

You are fearful ignorant people...with no power at all....no education...no future.

[ReVoLo0shiN]

The main stream media "including Fox" is a beacon for sheep like yourself..

I never said anything about Race.. In fact i said that Bush and Obama are the same..

No power, education or future? your just Rambling, resulting in cheap shots..

I'm a Veteran of this country and I swore an Oath to the Constitution, not the politicians!

I think i know more than you Sheep!

Peace

[172677]

Main stream media isn't my source of news and I wouldn't watch Fox if it was the last channel operating......

Any person who calls himself a "veteran" and posts the garbage you do is simply lying or is traitorous....to say nothing about the stupid "revolution" screen name.

And, don't throw your service at me. I'm a Marine Corp veteran who served when you were probably kicking the slats out of your cradle, bub.

[ReVoLo0shiN]

I respect your service, And I respectfully disagree with your position..

Your the one who went off on me..

"Post the Garbage I post"? Your the one supporting a complete rehaul of the system you defended and swore an oath too.. Your the one on Obama like he is the messiah...

"Yes we can" Destroy Liberty "Yes we can" Extend the Patriot Act

"Yes we can" Keep bailing out wallstreet

"Yes we can" Appoint Lobbyist and crooks in the white house

"Yes we can" Support NAFTA

"Yes we can"

[172677]

Well, I'm through with this thread. It's been fun. I can only take so much nonsense from the tinhatters and the lunatic fringe - then it's necessary to move on.

Good luck with your "revolution", you idiot.

[panhead1212]

I find it funny how 172677 had no response to zoklor other then calling him names. funny stuff. I agree with ya zoklor. In no way does this help america at all. with this bill my father can get fined a large sum of money because he wouldn't be taking the insurance his business offers him because we use the one offered in my mom's job. and not only that, the business my dad works for can be fined for basically not MAKING my dad use it. i feel the winds of socialism blowing in!

[172677]

Just to show how much you DON"T know....your father and his company will NOT be fined....as long as there is insurance coverage in place. Whether from your mother's workplace or from insurance he buys himself on the open market.

The bill requires everyone to be insured......not HOW.... Like car insurance, it matters NOT who the driver is...only that the car be insured.

Better stop listening to the tinhatters. They don't know a thing about it.

[goingalt]

That is somewhat true.

All coverage must be approved of by the government insurance exchange.

The problem is special interest groups.

For example, if the people who lobby for sildenafil try hard enough, they could have the insurance exchange fully cover sildenafil, thus raising costs for everyone.

On a more ridiculous note, plastic surgeons, can lobby to have part of their procedures covered even if it isn't for repair of the face or body from an accident. increasing costs for boob jobs.

[172677]

And.......an astroid can come whirling out of space and slam into the earth, destroying life as we know it.

Lots of things "can" happen......

That's no reason to delay progress, bub.

[goingalt]

I'm sorry but I do not want to have to share the cost of someone buying Viagra/Revatio. sildenafil is it's generic name.

Everyone knows that special interest groups will want their items to be covered by the insurance requirements. That is the problem. It does not lower costs, it only hides the cost.

[goingalt]

One must always reasonably try and anticipate what can happen.

Odds of an asteroid hitting us and killing all of us. I don't know the odds but it's not like it matters...we'll be dead.

Odds of special interest groups getting their hands in this sweet honey pot. Let's just say the odds are well within my corner.

[captquest1]

This is what bitter looks like folks

[panhead1212]

This is from the healthcare bill:

All individuals would be required to get coverage, either

through their employer or the exchange, or pay a penalty.

I thought it didn't matter how they were insured?

[172677]

Mandatory health insurance is simply that--you are required to carry health insurance of some kind....your choice.

Like mandatory car insurance, if you don't have it, you'll pay the penalty.....

People without insurance put a financial burden on the rest of us who do...when that person needs care...and doesn't have insurance....the rest of us pay through higher premiums.

If you don't want insurance, fine...then pay for everything out of your own pocket..don't suck off those who do.

[JimboVids]

America HATES democrats more than ever now.

[irisojects]

Jimbovids Add me to that list. This Health Care bill is nothing but the raping of Americans and their future. Now I guess if you can't come up with the cash to pay off to jail you go. Gives a whole new spin to the term jailen', huh.

[dmdum]

I am jewish.But I do not think like any of these jewish democratic congressmen + women. I am ashamed.That guy Waxman, Allysha Schwartz (did you see her eyes last night?) and others.I am a republican and I love this great nation. I thought jewish people were better then this.But if I was to go to my local synagogue here in my neighborhood I can guarantee you that not one jew there would be in favor of this boondoggle hc bill.

I hope the jewish Senator Liberman will help us. But, Schumer, Levine.

[wavecats772]

I hope that I have a nice cellmate. I can't afford the 15 grand.

[irisojects]

wavecats Well we know it won't be Barney Frank. Thats the good news. Cause he can not do any wrong, it doesn't matter if his boy friend has a pot stash or running a brothel out of the basement of his house.

[sirus10]

so do republicans and dems put them together you have only one party the corporate party

[myteewhytee]

Democrats do what they do because they hate America and want to destroy it. That's why they want to lock up people who don't want to get their health care from the government.