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From: TheP1414
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  • I don't mean to be dissing on you, but I'm supposed to be listening to you "breaking down" film of these NFL caliber players?? What are your credentials?? Can you tell me where you played college ball...or better yet, even high school ball?? Let me guess, you didn't play ANY football at all...? You sound awful in your film "breakdown"....give it up please.

  • Watch the Wake Forrest cut. Quick explosive. He blugins defenses. Runs 4.53 dumbfuck! God I can tell you never played. Look at all the plays Marc Ingram goes down.

  • First off Its great what your doing because its actually interesting. Take a look at 7:30 on the tape. Its not a linebacker its taylor mays who catches him who runs a 4.28 forty yard dash. While watching this see some agility problems but not as pronounced as you make it out to be. I am actually under the impression that he has a Jerome Bettis running style. Rewatch it and let me know what you think.

  • First off Its great what your doing because its actually interesting. Take a look at 7:30 on the tape. Its not a linebacker its taylor mays who catches him who runs a 4.28 forty yard dash. While watching this see some agility problems but not as pronounced as you make it out to be. I am actually under the impression that he has a Jerome Bettis running style. Rewatch it and let me know what you think.

  • Another thing i will call this early . The young QB from Standford, Luck. I think he will be a top 10 pick.

  • Don't brink up stats, Bama played better competition, and Ingram shared carries with Richardson, # 2 Rb coming out of high school that year(number 6 recruit in the whole nation). Will be better than Ingram, by junior year.

  • What a sexy man you are Shane.

  • your not an expert the cut at 5:20 u didnt talk about it and every cut u talked about that wasnt good enough it worked...why do u wanna cut left to right or right to left more then u have to.. he will run a 4.42 at the combine guarnteed.. i see why all u guys are talking about taylor mays now.. dude he has more speed then u think everyone just wait for him to prove u wrong

  • that wasnt a USC lb that was Taylor Mays who runs a 4.28 forty

  • btw hitler and his ideas(aka your ideas) are dead and you fucking idiots should be as well

  • go fuck yourself you cock sucking nazi white cock loving fuck faces you deserved to be burned at the stake hahahahahaha DIE

  • Rock, what is with all the vitriol? In one mangled manifestation of your hatred, you have managed to offend, me, my male friends, and my homosexual friends. And that is to say nothing of those souls, out there, who, from time to time, practice the art of onanism.

  • so someone pointing out inaccurate analysis of a player that happens to be white is a nazi? that shows that you have no argument when you have to resort to calling someone a racist. I don't see how simply saying that Toby Gerhart is a good runningback is racist. My grandfather faught against nazis in ww2 and I have no clue why you would think someone supporting a rb from stanford has nazi ideas? are on crack?

  • oh wait you are,on crack that is where the rock in your name comes from. See what it is like to make accusations about a person that you know nothing about?

  • and I doubt hotrod is even white, so how could he be a nazi? the way he has broken down Toby's runs, Id say he was a former runningback, which means he Is probably BLACK. Way to make assumptions on people, oh wait you know what that is called? BEING PREJUDICE

  • hotrod is a psycho from the looney land that is castefootball he is amusing though

  • Rock, Rock, Rock...... I am a psycho, from what? What is castefootball? is this code for something? Please explain.

    Again, I will respectfully point out, as I did with Hefan, I am simply sating facts and pointing out gross inaccuracies as stated by Shane. He wants to be taken seriously and claimed to want feedback on his analysis; I gave him some. Neither you, nor anyone else, has bothered to address my facts. Instead you start an ad hominem attack. Let's just stick to the facts, shall we?

  • lol

  • mark ingram is better, hell his BACK UP had 751 yards, .ingram has better speed, vision, and versatility, he also gained over 1,000 yards after contact, plus gerhart had 343 rushes to ingram's 271...so ingram would have smoked him had he gotten as many carries

  • yards after contact is not an official stat and not recorded for every player, Gerhart had more yards per catch, so i could technically say he would have more receiving yards if he was in an offense that used more short passes. You can't claim someone to be better on a "what if". Ingram's back up getting 751 proves that his runs were more of a product of the offensive line. Gerhart's backup got the most carries in one game during Notre Dame, a poor run d, and didnt do well

  • Hotrod, you're obviously a fan of Gerhart. That's great and all, but you clearly don't view him with an objective eye. You pointed out to me in a message that he is California's all time leading rusher. So what? College football's all time leader is Ron Dayne. He was nothing special as a pro. The NFL isn't high school or college. It's a different game and Gerhardt doesn't look like a special NFL prospect.

  • you still didnt respond to any of his in depth analysis of gerhart's runs, BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT. yeah many successful players havent fared well in the pros, so what should teams start doing, drafting guys who were UNSUCCESSFUL in college? oh wait teams already do that and say its based on "upside" which most dont ever live up to

  • Hefan: That is Rich.

    All I do is come on here and refute gross inaccurate statements of a guy who is purporting to "breakdown" a player's game by reviewing video. I am dealing in facts and pointing out that when he says, things like: "Gerhart can't outrun the USC Linebacker" the video, of the play in question, actually shows Gerhart outrunning the USC LB.

    As a result, to you, I am not being objective, for pointing out false statements? Are you, in fact, familiar with the term "objective"?

  • Hefan: With respect to Gerhart's High School record, I pointed that out for several reasons, two of which: 1) it shows a history of Gheart being a special player; 2) It shows that despite this, he was grossly underrated coming out of HS.

    It is not a guarantee of anything about the future and I never claimed it was. It is not for nothing, though, as you claim.

    Most importantly, it brings attention to two consistent patters, regarding Gerhart.

  • Hefan: Regarding Dayne, I respectfully point out that he was a special player, in college, and you claim "so what"? The so what is that he parlayed that into being the 11th pick of the NFL draft. Gerhart has been special and some are claiming he is not good enough to be a RB in the NFL much less a 1st round draft choice, like Dayne.

    For the record, among other things Dayne suffered from weight issues, or he may have been special, in the NFL too. As it were he had an above avg NFL career.

  • Do facts mean nothing to you? You are so sloppy in your zeal to show Gerhart's faults you often get confused. For example, at the 724 mark, Gerhart clearly outruns a USC linebacker, yet you state that "he can't" and note that he is run out of bounds. The problem is he gets run out of bounds by the S, after he dusts the linebacker! So my question: if you had actually known that TG outran the Linebacker, would you admit that he is faster than you thought? Or do facts not matter in your analysis?

  • Re the play at the 724 mark, below, I address your completely false statement he is not going to outrun the USC linebacker. It was Mays the S, using an angle and the sidelines to push TG out of bounds some 30 yards downfield. FACT: When TG hits the 47, you can clearly see him run right past an actual linebacker. Past this point the LB is never a factor, in the play, precisely because TG outruns him. You can see him falling back. When TG crosses the 35 the LiB is some 8 to 10 yrds behind.

  • At the 724 mark Stanford has 3 and 1 at their 44. Gerhart goes off tackle for the 1st down despite SC having 10 or so men in the box. You state this play as proof of a lack of Gerhart's speed, "He is not going to out run this USC linebacker."

    One more of your false statements. Fact: Gerhart was forced out of bounds after some 30 yards by Taylor Mays, USC's All American, and projected first round draft choice, SAFETY.

  • and Taylor Mays runs a 4.3

  • continuing with the play at the 514 mark, after Gehart makes the cut on the S, who was unblocked but left lying on the field after the cut, you rightfully point out the "the great blocking" Gerhart then breaks it to the sideline and he is quickly tackled, about 27 yards down the field as he is run out of bounds. He was tackled so quickly, no doubt, due to lack of speed. I am not quite sure how he made it to the sideline, as you have reminded us he does not have the speed to get outside.

  • At the 514 mark Stanford is lined up on their own 38 and Toby gets the ball on one of those straight up the middle plays. You say they run these plays so often because of Gerhart's inability to make sharp cuts and his lack of speed to get to the outside. Your outstanding analysis of his short comings are on clear display when he makes a cut in front of the unblocked S at the 47 yard line. Once again the cut is poor, yet the Saftey is left lying on the ground.

  • So, if I understand your "breakdown" of Gerhat's play, he is "not very good at making cuts" "he does not have speed" "when there is not a clear hole, Gerhart really struggles".

    Just think if Gerhart had any speed, had the ability to do anything but run straight ahead, and if he had an ablity to find holes he might have really been something.

    I mean he might have been able to lead the nation in rushing; you know... I am just saying with even a little speed!

  • At the 450 mark you are once again telling us how Gerhart does not have speed and that I quote "But if he would have had better speed... a lot of these plays... the last play, probably would have turned into a touchdown."

    So, let me get this straight, if Gerhart, were not the peg legged man, you make him to be, a lot of these plays would have went for TDs? I mean with more speed he might have led the nation in scoring.... I am just saying, you know .... if he would have had more speed!

  • At the 145 mark or so, I quote "he's really not very good at making sharp cuts." Next throughout the video we see a 235 lb man on multiple plays meeting an unblocked defender in the open field. The 235 lb RB makes a cut, which allows him to escape the defender's grasp, and sprint away to a 1st down or TD. The defender is left lying on the ground, as a result of the cut, and then you go to great lengths to tell how this 235 RB is not effective unless he is running straight ahead. Got it! OK!

  • On the Wak run, this is at least the 3rd defensive player left lying on the ground, after Gerhart makes a cut in the open field. Yet you go to great pains to tell us, as we see with our own eyes yet another would be tackler grasping for air as Gerhart runs away, just how this is not a good cut. I think you would have to admit if you had any sense of fairness that the two cuts on the 60 yard TD play against Washington, and the one here against Wake, were at least effective.

  • Regarding the run against Wake at the 404 mark, you make no mention of the fact that the TE is left with two men to block and as a result, one shoots the gap unblocked. Gerhart sees this and cuts on a dime, which you claim he cant do. As a result of an open field cut an unblocked defender is once again left lying on the ground, as Toby sprints off for yet another big play and more yards. All running backs should be so limited, and we should all be so lucky.

  • Regarding your "breakdown" of Toby Gerhart's running, take a look at the run against Wake Forest at the 404 mark. The play is a counter play to Gerhart (you got that part right, which is about all). The play is designed for Gerhart to start right and counter left and to run to the corner. But at the 259 mark, you state "Gerhart does not have that kind of acceleration ...so with Stanford you usually see him run right up the middle and go with that." Really? Well glad you cleared that up.

  • Regarding the Cal run, which is just one of your many false statements, it is false and highly inaccurate to claim a runner is "caught from behind" due to lack of speed, when he first gets engages a defender from his front. It is only when this guy slows Gerhart down for 5 yards do the trailing defenders, "catch" up. Fact, Gerhart does not get "caught from behind. If he were like most RBs and he hit the ground, when the guy makes contact at the 15 the other guys would have never "caught" up

  • Most importantly, regarding the Cal run, you state that he "gets caught from behind; that's that speed portion (?)" This is simply a false statement. First,l you make no mentions that he encounters an unblocked defender at the 5, and wastes the guy, leaving him on the ground. Next he is engaged by a 2nd defender at about the 15,. The guy is hanging on for about 5 yrds before other defenders catch up from behind, but only after the defender gets to him from the front; not from behind! Good Grief!

  • Regarding the 24 yrd run against Cal, you are so concerned about pointing out Gerhart's faults, you don't even mention the fact that when the ball is snapped almost all of Cal's defenders are as close or closer to where the ball is being snapped than Gerhart. They are stacking the box and everyone in the joint knows it is going to be a running play and who is going to get the ball. Yet somehow, a guy that you say has not speed or cutting ability runs for 24 yards and a first down.

  • Again, I don't have time to address all of your false statements of fact, which leave your commentary at odds with what a close review of the play on the video actually shows. I will address one more here . to make my point.

    The play in question is when is when Gerhart breaks a 24 yard, or so run, against Cal.This happens when Stanford is backed up inside their own 1 yard line.

  • Honestly, you really should consider doing the honorable thing and redo your breakdown of Gerharts play. It is one thing to offer poor analysis, it is quite another to pepper commentary regarding his play with statements that are clearly false.

    I dont have time to address all of your misstatements of fact. But for the love of Pete, go back and look at the actual play on the video, and then consider all the false statements you made about that play.

  • I addressed below your incorrect statement on the 60 yard TD run against Was. when you stated that Gerhart's speed was in question because two DBs "caught" him (60 yards down field mind you). In actuality, neither DB so much as lays a finger on Gerhart in the field of play. You also didn't mention that Gerhart clearly out runs one of the DB's from the 22 to the goal line, when you say he "caught' him! It is fact that he did not and it is clear Gerhart is actually separating from him

  • Did you even look at these clips more than once? Did you look at them long enough to actually see what is going on and to see how the defensive player and Gerhart actually interact on the field. Or were you simply on an agenda and so you looked for things to say, about his speed, cutting ability etc, which were not even remotely supported by the actual play on the field? Do you even care that you make statements that are not true based on the video itself?

  • Comment removed

  • how do you expect for anyone to take you seriously? you are not even "breaking down the film" You simply took a few clips off of a highlight video which means you have not even seen Gerhart play. Hotrod offers more in depth anaylsis than this garbage

  • interesting that you left out the 61 yard run td against CAL. Oh and what about the run last year against OSU where he runs into two defenders and then bounces it to the outside and outruns a db for about a 50 yard td. I guess he managed all of his accomplishments without the ability to make "sharp" cuts.

  • and so what if he doesn't make "sharp" cuts, he makes fluid cuts, weaving in and out of defenders and is able to hit the hole, people think he is slow because of his long graceful strides that make it look easy. a ten minute video is not just another "highlight" video, its almost every play above 5 yards that he has, he rarely has a play for no yards even when there is no hole. He runs no different than guys like Steven Jackson, Marion Barber, Ryan Grant

  • you do realize he ran for over 100 against a USC defense that had 8 players drafted, a 9th one going in the first round this year? 2 of those guys are linebackers going to the pro bowl this year, a 3rd one was considered for rookie of the year, they only allowed one of ther 100 yard rusher, this was when Stanford had no passing attack and teams stacked the box, so all this crap "he wont be able to do this in the nfl" is a load of crap

  • thanks for stealing my vid play for play, the run against cal can be found on google video and much better quality and really shows his agiliity, the version i  have is choppy which is also the version you have

    watch?v=vXyTCJ2yTP8 the updated video, entire season, no replays shown

  • Wouldn't touch him before the 3rd. He just doesn't look like a guy who'll be special in the NFL.

  • Please, think about what you are saying, and think about his relationship with his father and tell me again, how Gerhart is so sloppy?

  • Does Gerhart not strike you as a very intelligent and coachable player? Do you really think that after all these years of making sloppy, or poor cuts, his dad didnt take him aside and say son you are never going to make it with cuts like that? Do you think, his dad is not smart enough to know what he sees in person and on video? Do you think Gerhart is too stupid not to work on something that you think is so bad?

  • ''Do you think, his dad is not smart enough to know what he sees in person and on video? '' So why are we seeing the same results?

  • One more thing for you to think about; respectfully, I might add. Do you understand what type of a relationship he has with his father? Do you know, that not only is his dad a very successful high school football coach, but that he was also a power running back, in high school, college and in the pros with the USFL?

  • I mean really, I am not trying to be a jerk, but just think about it for a moment. Do you really think, you can run for over 13,150 yards in 7 seasons, and not pick up a thing or two about how to run or make cuts?

  • Again, with all due respect do you realize that Gerhart has ran for over 13,150 yards, in his last 7 years of playing elite level high school and major college football. I doubt there is anyone coming out of college this year that has ran for anywhere near that many yards. Do you think he ran for over 13,150 yards and not learn anything about how to use his vision, speed, and cutting on the field?

  • The number of cuts aren't the big deal, it is the sharpness. He either takes multiple steps, or eases into a cut. Just not sharp.

  • With all due respect. I am just asking you to go back and review the vid, with an open mind. When he makes the cut to avoid the CB, iit can not be a sharp cut because, the CB is to his right, he has to cut to his left. Cutting to his left puts him closer to the Safety. You don't want that.. the sharper the cut the more he is in line with the Safety, that is to his disadvantage. Go back and look and you will see Gearhart is already looking at the S when he make the cut on the CB!

  • Please, I am not trying to be a jerk. Just have an open mind. A 235 lb RB makes one cut, and leaves a D1 CB lying on the ground. He makes an immediate cut back in the opposite direction to avoid a S and leaves him lying on the ground on his way to a 60 yard TD run. I don't think you see it happen where a 235 RB jukes two DBs back to back, and have them both lying on the ground. as he goes by.

  • I meant to write, you don't see that too often. I think if you will just review the vid with an open mind you will find you picked a poor clip to prove your argument that Toby Gerhart, does not make good cuts. Carefully look at his head and footwork on the play. Watch the little very slight stutter step he makes after he dusts the CB. He is looking right at the S, when he does it. If you watch closely, that is when the S dives for him, and you will see Gerhart accelerate right past him.

  • in short, he changes gears on the guy and the S goes for it; TG sees it and changes gears again, and boom he is by the guy. Keep in mind there are no blocker between the S and TG as he is making his cut on the CB. If GH had no speed a D1 Would have had plenty of time to come up and break down right in front of him and make the tackle. He didn't do that because of TG's speed and size. If you look the S not only didn't square up, he was unable to even get his head in front of TG body, and missed

  • I am suggesting to you that you have a preconceived notion about TG, and you are trying to find things that prove this. But I think an honest review of that play, does not support your assumptions. You have to admit that TG made several cuts on the play, and left two experienced D1 DBs lying on the ground. A third DB had ample time to cut him off and couldn't, because he didn't have enough speed. What ever you think of the quality of the cuts, you have to admit they were extremely effective.

  • You also sate the run shows TG lacks elite speed because two defensive backs, using angles, catch up with him some 50 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. Are you really sure you want to make the claim that having 2 DB's cut off a 235 lb RB 60 yards down field is proof the RB has insufficient speed? For starters, 8 never does "catch" him despite the fact that at the 22 yd line he is free of his blocker and even with TG. But TG runs by him, and is "caught" in the end zone after pulling up.

  • Please go back and look at the play. Look at the video, at the 237 mark; 8 breaks free, of his block at the 22 yard line; TG, is also at the 22, maybe 3 yards toward the sideline If TG were slow, as you claim,. 8 makes a tackle before 22 yards are up. But that is not what happens. In fact, when TG hits the 18 yrd ln, 8 is now half a step behind. Next, when Gerhart is over the 15 yard line, the DB is now one full yard behind him, over the 16 yard line.

  • TG has another DB to worry about and 8 only has TG to catch; yet TG is pulling away. Again, when TG is over the 15 yard line, the DB is now one full yard behind him, over the 16 yard line. The DB is now turned more up field as he knows he has been beat. As Gerhart hits the 11 the DB is at the 13; he is now two yards behind. You can also see Gerharts head turn once again as she sees the other DB is further down the field. He knows there is no way 8 can catch him, if he doesnt have help.

  • At the 9 it is crystal clear that TG is pulling up, to make a cut, to get in the end zone. Whalen is doing an outstanding job on down field blocking, and has contact with the only defender between TG and the Goal Line. You can see that Gerharts head is now turned more to the left and he is sizing up his options. I argue, that if TG were as slow as you make out, No. 8 capitalizes and tackles TG before he reaches the end zone. But this doesn't happen. Because the big man is not slow.

  • When TG plants his right foot at the 7, No.8 is still at the 9 yard line. They were even at the 22, but now 8 is two yards behind. Sorry but a fair review of the action from the 22 to the end zone does not reveal a lack of speed by TG. It does not show a DB running down a a slow big back. In fact it clearly shows the RB distancing himself from the smaller DB. In fact even after pulling up when TG, plants his right foot at the 7; No.8 is still at the 9 yard line.

  • Next TG is at the 5, and is obviously changing up his running, because of the defender in front of him, even though he is being blocked. Importantly, .8 is trailing at the 7. He is way ahead of the frmr blocker and has only TG to worry about but he does not have the speed.. Next TG, makes a sharp pull up with his foot just behind the 3. No. 8, despite this, is running full speed ahead, and has one foot on the 5 yrd ln, with his body behind it. He has not made up any ground in nearly 20 yards.

  • You claim TG lacks speed and state the two defends catching him after more than 60 yards running is proof. But the run does not show to be true. Fact: No. 8, finally catches up to TG 1 yrd deep in the end zone, after TG has ran into Whalen and slowed down. Fact: Neither DB catches Gerhart and puts as much as finger on him in the field of play. The only defenders that did touch him are lying on the ground, after TGt made a couple of his poor cuts, and left them in the dust..

  • Shane: you asked for comments regarding your "breakdown" of Gerhart Videos, purporting to see poor cuts and a clear lack of speed. I have just thoughtfully, and in clear detail, went over the 60 yard TD play, where you make the claims of poor cuts and lack of speed. I have shown in a clear and convincing manor, that you are wrong. His multiple cuts were extremely successful and no one caught him, because, to the contrary of your claim, the run showed speed, not a runner who is slow.

  • Comment removed

  • Combine times Frank Gore, 4.66 Knowshon Moreno, 4.62 Beanie Wells, 4.59 Julius Jones, 4.59 Cedric Benson, 4.58 Brian Westbrook, 4.57 Brandon Jacobs, 4.56 Jamal Lewis, 4.53 Michael Bush, 4.5 Carnell Williams, 4.5 Michael Turner, 4.49 Steven Jackson, 4.45
  • 40 times can be different than on field speed. Watch Gore, Wells and Westbrook. They run faster than Gerhart, no matter the 40s. We'll see what Gerhart runs though! could really help him!

  • dude you got no point, Brandon Jacobs ran a 4.56 at the combine, Frank Gore was given a 4.66, Beanie Wells ran a 4.59,Cedric Benson put up an unofficial 4.58, Knowshon Moreno ran a 4.55, Michael Turner ran a 4.49, but of course these guys arent good enough..Toby can run about a 4.48-4.5 thats good enough to be a RB. If he puts up a 4.48 and becomes a FB its racism. Look at danny woodhead, he runs a high 4.3 40 time but got converted to WR. USC even wanted Toby to be a FB or LB.

  • I think the Eagles might have stumbled upon something in using Leonard Weaver extensively in a running role. Using Weaver as a sort of power back with McCoy/Westbrook as shifty, quicker backs. I'd use Gerhart in a Weaver sort of role; a dangerous weapon at fullback, while having a threat behind him in the backfield. Giving him 13-15 touches a game and as a receiver out of the backfield, I think he can find success. Not sure if he'll find success as a primary back, although I think he can.

  • Great comment! Definitely could be the way for teams to use him!

  • You really don't have a clue, he has great speed, if he was black you would be jerking off over him, what a joke.

  • lendale white?

  • Go look up Lendale white film, White is faster and more elusive! Even when he was at USC , at 265. I agree with everything the guy posting said. Even if he runs a great forty time, BOTTOM LINE, very simple. LACKS! BURST! Everyone wants to scream oh racism, get the fuck out of here, accept fact as fact! Another thing, Ingram is Wayyy Better than Gerhart. Faster, more, elusive,more agility, equal break tackle.

  • lacks burst? Gerhart has one of the best initial bursts that I have ever seen. The way he explodes through the hole is better than any big back out there. Lendale White was not faster nor was he more elusive, he did however have top recruits blocking for him and Reggie Bush as a change of pace runner to give him plenty of rest. Stanford is the equivalent of Vanderbilt in the SEC, having a back put up such great numbers out there is incredible, they were 1-11 b4 Toby, he got them to a bowl

  • @cal31BRIAN23 lendale white is not faster or elusive, he is fat and slow. if it were true, Gerhart doesn't even need sharp cuts like a scat back because he can break those little arm tackles while guys like Lendale White and Arian Foster lose their balance from air, turf, shoestring. Gerhart has enough 2 make a guy miss, not completly miss, but  defender winds up getting just a hand on his leg which doesn't affect Gerhart's balance, yeah balance one of the most underrated qualities in a back.

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