Joe Biden explains Patriotism & Taxes to Katie Couric

[erlindamckeag]

nice one.

[avionicswirenut]

Three years since this post...How is change working so far....Real Patriotism will be when we take back America from the dumb fucks in DC....

[nicktm94]

Wen we take money from the rich to use for consumer spending, it reduces the capital investment in our future, and instead goes to satisfying our current wants and perceived needs. yes, the rich spend a (relatively) small portion of all their wealth on luxuries, (which produces jobs) and what do they do with the rest of their money? do they wallop in in? do they burn it? NO they invest it in the parts of the economy that need it most. so don't tax it away from them, just to give it 2 consumers

[P38FORK]

It will be a great day when this bastard drops dead.

[krblizzard]

Hey Joe, how much of your tax refund did you send back last year? You hypocritical piece of shit!!

[rdx506]

@krblizzard 'Jerk-Off Joe' Biden (and his wife) earned over $333,000 in 2009.

He paid less than 22% in Federal income taxes.

He lives in a $4 Million former-duPont estate less than 2 miles from me.

[HandyMan101]

@rdx506 Hey I don't have a problem with biden making a lot of money.

I have a problem with him and obama telilng me that I make too much.

or that "at some point you've made enough money"

They are complete morons.

both of them.

[Eadhmonn]

Whatta schmutz !! the emperor with no clothes discussing the truth behind the Wizard of Oz- A true exercise in futility.

[telaquapacky]

The rich gain more from the system than anyone. Without a progressive tax to check their automatic profits, this country would be just another banana republic- a handful of super rich oligarchs in a sea of poor feudal serfs- the rest of us.

What makes American capitalism work is that the free market is balanced by a safety net, and a progressive tax to keep the rich from taking over. This isn't Socialism- it's what makes your standard of living possible.

TAXES KEEP YOU FREE!

[HandyMan101]

@telaquapacky that's a bunch of bullshit

taking the fruits of ones labor was never intended in the constitution under the income tax system we have.

if the founders were here, they would be ashamed at your willingness to let the government take what isn't theirs.

ie. your hard work.

if I make a million dollars a year, I'm worth that because someone CHOOSES to pay me that.

that's all. nothing more.

[StoogeWatcher]

Biden proves that Democrats are unpatriotic.

[wofasifu]

Hey Joe what about the campaign promises!!! You're hero PROMISED not only to CUT taxes but that there would be NO new taxes.

[Mstrshalom]

I see that JohninBasel is an avid Casey Research reader... :-)

[JohninBasel]

According to Biden et al., the patriotic thing to do is to take your hard-earned money and give it to the government to give to the needy, whose ranks are currently swollen with the bumbling executives of Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, JPMorgan, and similar Wall Street institutions.

[JohninBasel]

His words show a direct correlation between the concept Marx expressed in his from each according to his abilities, to each according to their needs."

The man's a Commie.

[Atomsmasher777]

The rich don't want to pay taxes.

That's why we have a huge Natl debt., Reagan gave the rich huge tax breaks and the debt began growing.

They always get their way.

[tiananman]

The rich pay more taxes than anyone. It's called progressive income tax, and it's unconstitutional. It's popular, but unconstitutional. That's fine if you don't think we should follow the constitution though.

[newyorkmetsfan7787]

Hey speaking of phoniness...remember that time you plagiarized a stump speech back in the 80's Joe? Say it ain't so, Joe!

[riidinghard]

How about that Tim Geitner he must be some patriot. Barack you are supposed to be so smart you and Joe must have played hookey and forgot to do your homework assignment. I don't remember that dummy Bush trying to appoint any tax cheats the last eight years.

[po3jax]

you guys dont seem to realize, either way, we'll be paying higher taxes, which will hopefully boost the economy, and help the citizens in the LONG run! so what if you dont get those few extra bucks a month, most of you will probably spend it on items that aren't necessary, i.e. candy, tv, cable, etc. When you should be spending it on paying electric/water/ rent/mortage, and IRA. People will never learn and waste money.

[CircusMaximus09]

What exactly do you pay in taxes? Do you still live at home? Who are YOU to tell me how to spend my hard-earned money? Some 20 yr old kid?

[the430movie]

Your giving me a heart of Tax!!!!!

[HammockTimeNow]

"Please help me understand where it states ANYWHERE that I am responsible to put money in your pocket, food on your table, pay for your utility bills, pay your kids' college, and that you are permitted to steal it from me??? Please...show me where it states this in our Constitution...I was busy working the day they said it on MSNBC so I must have missed it."

And you only show ignorance by flagging my post...where is my right to free speech?

[innyopti]

nice post! it was flagged:

"Please help me understand where it states ANYWHERE that I am responsible to put money in your pocket, food on your table, pay for your utility bills, pay your kids' college, and that you are permitted to steal it from me??? Please...show me where it states this in our Constitution...I was busy working the day they said it on MSNBC so I must have missed it."

[Featherylock]

I bet Biden doesn't even pay taxes!!

[GospelPete]

Wonder why Couric didn't ask Joe what television shows he watches?

Yellow journalism at it's worst!

[321liftoff]

* I meant you HAVE the choice to hire a better worker!

[1978RDC21]

Actually unions highly regulate the hiring and firing of workers. Often times they stand up for terrible workers, to keep the faith that the union is there for the workers. You know, "Solidarity!" and all that.

[BrezhnevIsMyCoPilot]

So, to those that disagree with Senator Biden, let me get this straight: going on an unnecessary preemptive war is patriotic, but actually supplying the revenue to fund this war through taxation is unpatriotic?

[1978RDC21]

Be sure you don't lump too many people together. Some don't beleive in preemptive war AND don't believe in gargantuan, inefficient, bureaucratic government programs/ bailouts. You take care of you, I'll take care of me. If you want to donate to Jerry's Kids go for it, but don't tell me I HAVE to do the same.

By the way, war is one of the legitimate functions of Federal Gov't. Healthcare and education is not.

[BrezhnevIsMyCoPilot]

1978RDC21, I agree with the first portion of what you say, but the criticism stands for the Republican Party as (with the exception of a tiny libertarian-leaning minority) they both supported the war and opposed funding them through taxation.

On the second point, who is the arbiter of what is a "legitimate function of the Federal Government", you? Unless the Constitution defines it as illegitmate, then legitimacy is determined by the American people through the Congress.

[1978RDC21]

The Constitution is the correct answer. The Constitution did not set up a communist government to take from one and give to another. In fact the Constitution explicitly limits the power of gov't. Do not forget the rights of the individual, it is what this country is founded upon.

Life, Liberty, Property. (you may know it better as PURSUIT of happiness).

[1978RDC21]

I still oppose taxation. It would be one thing to say we will temporarily apply a tax the the populace to pay for the war, or even a road that needed to be built. The problem is, the taxes don't go away. The "GREEDY" gov't. keeps the taxes in effect and just finds other ways to spend the money. So, I have no choice but to vehemently oppose any NEW tax. The gov't. needs to be more efficient with what it already steals from me and everyone else.

[BrezhnevIsMyCoPilot]

Thanks for [long-windedly] sharing your opinions!

As income taxation is Constitutional (see the 16th Amendment), and as the Constitution does not forbid spending on health care and education (et al.), it is up to the American people through the Congress to determine how much to tax and on what to spend it, not 1978RDC21.

As your opinions are shared by neither a majority of the American people nor the Congress, you should be mindful not to presuppose your beliefs as universal and absolute.

[1978RDC21]

You mean it's Un-Constitutional, right? You'll need to do some research for it, but it was never ratified by the required number of states.

So, what you are arguing is that as long as my gang is bigger than yours I can steal from you. See the reason we created a government was so that force could not be used to steal. The problem is people now believe it's ok to vote in a congressman to steal from others for their benefit. It's still theft.

[BrezhnevIsMyCoPilot]

Remember, this is your opinion, not some universal truth being argued. I don't believe taxes are ipso facto good, but they can be managed and spent very well to benefit all in a way private initiative alone likely wouldn't. Drop the moral superiority and hyperbole and argue your case reasonably. Still, I don't see most Americans ever voting Libertarian.

Also, if you really believe the "16th Amendment was never really passed" conspiracy theory, then this isn't worth discussing any more at all.

[1978RDC21]

Be careful regarding the majority. The majority don't vote on taxation. The elected representatives do. There is no law requiring them to poll their constituents before they vote on a bill.

Though you and the media may scream louder for more taxes and less freedom, it doesn't mean you have a majority.

[1978RDC21]

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. Sell not liberty to purchase power."

Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

[BrezhnevIsMyCoPilot]

"Our new Constitution is now established, and has an appearance that promises permanency; but in this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes."

Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)

[1978RDC21]

So, does Franklin argue FOR taxes in your quote? or did you put that up because it's the same person I used?

Again, for your benefit, I will agree that SOME taxes are necessary. Beyond military, courts and police (the reason gov't. was established) taxation gets excessive. Especially so, when you enslave one to support another.

[BrezhnevIsMyCoPilot]

No, but taxes are part of the price we pay for living in a society, as opposed to in anarchy. For example, I'm not particularly fond of police, but I accept that without them things could be a lot worse. There's no "enslavement" here--taxes are a critical part of the modern social contract.

One last quote:

"I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization."

-Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

[takomaguy]

C'mon , Joe, C'mon! Throw throw the right, THE RIGHT! Attaboy, Joe!

[1978RDC21]

Not only is Biden an idiot he's a communist. (paraphrasing here) 'We take the taxes from rich people and give it to the middle class.' What about the poor and poverty stricken Joe, did you forget about them?

Boy, that world is looking pretty heavy on Atlas' shoulders... He's looking pretty tired.

[321liftoff]

Idiot, the poor will get the tax cut too under the Obama/Biden ticket. Only people making 250,000 + a year will see a tax increase.

Boy, you're stupidity must weigh pretty heavy on your shoulders... You're looking pretty moronic.

[1978RDC21]

First, in case you are as retarded as you seem to be, poor people don't pay taxes! They receive tax money from the gov't.

Second, I was being sarchastic. Every time these turds open their mouth to release another steaming pile they talk about helping the poor. Problem is they haven't helped the poor in the 60 years this Socialism has been going on.

[321liftoff]

SOCIALISM IS NOT A PRODUCT OF THE DEVIL. Do you enjoy highways? Public parks, transportation, water works, bridges, public high schools, social security, public health care? THESE ARE ALL SOCIALIST PROGRAMS. If you hate socialism so much, I dare you to go without it's services. I'd like to see you get to work every day without using a public road.

[1978RDC21]

A majority of what you just stated is the problem. These are social programs we don't need. The military to defend the country, the police and the courts are the ONLY thing the gov't. should run. I can see your argument with roadways, but that doesn't have to be Federal. Public transportation, parks, healthcare, education systems and social security are ALL failures of gov't. They are all very inefficient and usually create more problems than they solve.

[321liftoff]

As I said earlier, if you believe all these extra socialist services are a waste take a stand! Do the patriotic thing for our country and stop using public roads, educational facilities, libraries, sanitation, bridges, walkways, parks, transportation, welfare, reform, unions, or an other public service out there. I'd also like for you to think about the public services your family and friends use. You'd be fine with them losing these public works?

[1978RDC21]

Give me back my tax money and I will!

[1978RDC21]

What do you not understand about take care of yourself? Of course people will on occasion need some help. Alot of people go to their family or church or something along those lines. All the people on wellfare do not NEED it, but they aren't going to complain about getting paid for doing nothing.

[321liftoff]

Have you tried living on minimum wage? Try doing that, and then tell me that hard working people trying to get off welfare DON'T need the help.

[1978RDC21]

321liftoff

The minimum wage is not a living wage... A teenager at their first job doesn't need a living wage. Most families in the U.S. are not supported by a minimum wage.

There may be some legitimate hard working people that have fallen on hard times, I already mentioned that. There is no way you can possibly tell me that ALL people on wellfare need it. I don't know what evidence you need that there is a great deal of fraud involved in the social programs this country runs.

[1978RDC21]

Do you believe that "unions" are a public good that the gov't. should provide? Are you a leech? How much will be enough? You want to tell me that someone who actually goes out and works is greedy because they want to keep what they earn. But you want to TAKE what is not yours and give it to someone who did nothing. You tell me which is greedy the Worker, the Taker, or the Slacker

[321liftoff]

Union people aren't always good and hardworking, but I think it's fair for them to try to get a decent wage. If you get a lazy worker, you don't have the choice to find a harder worker in the union and hire them instead. Without the ability to come together and protests, you have to admit that companies would most likely be paying them below a living wage.

[1978RDC21]

321liftoff

I don't have to admit any such thing. But, let me clarify my position. I don't mind private citizens forming a union if they want. But I have a problem with gov't. employees forming a union. This also includes teachers since their wages come from taxation. How can you expect someone to vote against a tax that would give thema pay raise? If I could vote for the gov't. to take all your wages and give it to me 321liftoff I'd do it in a minute. j/k What precedent would that set?

[1978RDC21]

continued...

Who would want to try and succeed if at any time you could vote it away from them?

What motivates me to be productive if I have no right to keep the proceeds? Sure, some people may still want to research medicine to cure cancer or something benevolent like that. But (and this goes to the minimum wage argument), if we all work for $50/ hr. who will want to take a high-stress/ skill job like surgeon if they can sweep floors at the supermarket?

[1978RDC21]

Another thing, do you know who built the first roads? Private companies. Have you heard of a Toll Road. Now, I can actually understand it's easier to simply pay a state gas tax and have the state take care of the roads within it's borders. But why the hell do we pay a Federal Gas Tax?! (The interstate system is already completed).

[321liftoff]

Please, get your facts straight. The first roads were built around 4000 BC, and the first civilization to make an extensive network of public roads was the Romans, one of the greatest civilizations that has existed so far.

As for whatever taxes you're talking about, I really don't give a damn. I'll agree that some taxes are stupid, but taxes in general ARE necessary.

[1978RDC21]

I apologize, you're right, I should have said the first "modern roads".

[1978RDC21]

321liftoff

SOME taxes are necessary, that's not what I'm arguing. Are you ignorant or just slow?

"Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one." -- Thomas Paine

"Do not let us mistake necessary evils for good." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963)

[akchicago21]

@321liftoff

Did you ever live in a socialist country?

Nazi Germany - National SOCIALISM

Soviet Union - International SOCIALISM.

Shall I continue?

Praise God that you were born in a capitalist country = the United States.

[321liftoff]

@akchicago21 ... Did you go looking for my comment? I posted that 2 years ago. Get a life, troll.

[akchicago21]

@321liftoff OK.

It's a product of Satan then.

God says: "Thou shall not steal"

Socialism says: "Rob the rich".

[321liftoff]

We just gave corrupt Wall Street $700 billion to bail out people who DON'T NEED THE MONEY. If we had every money-grabbing CEO return the billions of dollars they gave themselves for *perks*, then we wouldn't be in this current financial crisis.

So why would you rather give money to amoral, rich, fat-cat stock brokers who stole money at the expense of million's of families' homes, than aid common people losing their houses?

[1978RDC21]

If you're responding to me 321j*ckoff, I'm not arguing for ANY gov't. bailout! Second, how dare you say person 'A' deserves my labor. I sell my labor for a wage I deem acceptable. Not to put some lazy ass in a home but to provide for my family. The second you attempt to take anything from anyone else you are violating the very premise of being deserving. No one "deserves" anything forcibly taken from someone else. If you want to buy the guy a house, do so. Don't tell me what to do with my labor.

[bennyh12345]

FDR adresssed the country via radio-'FDR's fireside chats' The TV was unveiled at the 1939 World's Fair. Biden's hairplugs finally damaged his brain. Telling cripples to stand. Now it looks like Biden not only plagarized from Neil Kinnock, but also Hillary. Talking in a YouTube sponsored debate last year, he said he had been inside the "green zone" seven times and "shot at".

Wrong-he lied.

[texanpilot23]

the top 5% wealthiest people in america pay 75% of the taxes.. so i guess the rich are really patriotic.. i guess according to biden the middle class and lower class need to step up and get patriotic and pay more taxes! we dont need to cut gov't spending and get our national debt under control... na lets just raise taxes and raise spending even more and get the national debt to increase even higher.. damn i wish people would listen to ron paul

[OutlawTomFantastic]

Way to dodge the question, douche. She asked you about whether taxation was patriotic. Ben Franklin once said, "It would be a hard government that would tax its citizens one-tenth their income." That says a lot because those were the original patriots.

[issueresolved2008]

37.2% of americans don't pay any taxes, so how the hell is Obama gonna cut taxes for 95% of Americans.

[CharlieRight]

ssueresolved2008, he will give a rebate to those who don't pay taxes. What this is , is a vot4e buying scheme.

Biden said that paying taxes is patriotic. Obama is about to set up a situation where his constituents are exempt from taxation but are allowed to vote taxes on others. Who then is going to oppose taxation? It is the beginning of the end.

[Atomicflash500]

I don't know who has more cosmetic sugery Coursick or Bidwen ..they both looked bleached out ..

[Atomicflash500]

In one Star Trek episide, Kirk, Spock and the boys ended up in a parralel universe, where history happened a little different. Maybe Joe and Obama are from a parallel universe where FDR was Pres in 1929 and everyone living in all 57 states had televisions.

Biden to Enterprise: Scotty, beam me up now! I'm screwing up the election for the Democratic party!

[UsLiebrichsofGermany]

Why didn't Katie call him on it?

[issueresolved2008]

b/c Katie is biased just like the majority of mainstream media.

[smithfieldfair]

Did anyone catch the historical gaffs in this? FDR was NOT the President during the 1929 stock market crash - Herbert Hoover was and he had warned the previous President, Coolidge, that something like this was coming. Also, there was no television during FDR's presidency; FDR would have used the radio. Seems a VP candidate should know a bit more about US history. He makes Dan Quayle look positively brilliant!

[Stunatra]

Oh please. Even if his facts are screwed up, his message comes through.

[maxzam]

does anyone want to know who voted for the war in iraq? john kerry ted kennedy JOE BIDEN..if bush didnt send troops in he would have been attacked by you democrats..oh ya and Mr. Biden thinks there was television in 1929

[Stunatra]

Go Joe! You tell 'em!

Obama/Biden '08!

[ZippyTheShowDog]

I'm guessing you're just another dumb nigger

[Stunatra]

What's with the racism? I am a white man voting for a black man. Have a problem with that?

[ZippyTheShowDog]

I have a problem, not with his race, but with the fact that the man stands for NOTHING. If he was white, he wouldn't have even been considered. He has never proven himself at all. He comes from Chicago, where the number of murders is greater than the number od deaths in Iraq over the last 6 months.

[TLPFAS]

Hey Jackass Blowhard Biden... Its my money .I could spend my money better than you can... You are an ass ... By the way you only gave 3k in charity and you made 3 million you cheap fuck ... Go fix your hair plugs.. GO AWAY O8 JOE BLOWHARD BIDEN.

[minveg]

You're part of the top 1 percent? I find that hard to believe.

[dirtywest]

I am. And I concur. I can spend my money better than your assclowns in Washington. I donate my money to plenty of charitable causes, all of whom will suffer if the government takes more of my money. The government is good at spending money on bullshit programs and regulations. There is nothing patriotic about that.

[Naviti7]

Bullshit... like the Iraqi war? Who should foot the bill for that?? My children??? No thank you!!

But good for you that you give back. I respect that. But someone is going to have to pay for this war. And it should not be those of us who are voting for the candidate who wants to end it.

[dirtywest]

Everyone is going to have to pay for the war. I didn't support it (or George Bush), but I'm all in favor of finishing it with honor and in victory. Don't be fooled. Obama is not going to be able to pull out of Iraq like he claims. It's much too complicated.

[ZippyTheShowDog]

BOOBIES !!

[akchicago21]

@dirtywest

I am absolutely agree with you.

[cleo1994]

Before the bubble exploded greedy business man made huge profits. Their greed created this situation, I think that's only fair they are paying some of that money back to the taxpayers.

[SupaDaFuture]

Well Put Joey...Taking the millionaires back to the taxes they received under Bill Clinton is exactly the way to go...Remember we had a 3trillion dollar surplus under Clinton...Bush lowered taxes on the millionaires, 3trillion dollar surplus gone then started a war....lol They expect us the middle class to pay for it pfft...

[ZippyTheShowDog]

pffft? Must be a quief you faggot!

[issueresolved2008]

Clinton had a surplus b/c of the presidents before him, just like Bush inherited a deficit from Clinton.

[megC1983]

I think you had better fact check that.

[issueresolved2008]

Actually many agree with me, this is nothing new.

[issueresolved2008]

Here is what one source had to say - "Bill Clinton left behind a two-year recession because of his massive tax increase in 1993, which started the unraveling of what was at the time, the eleven-year economic recovery and boom of Ronald Reagan." Just google Bill Clinton two year recession. So we were already in a "mini" recession when Bush took office, once you start adding in factors like 9/11, Katrina, Iraq, cost of oil, Bush didn't have a chance.

[megC1983]

Clinton did NOT have a surplus. The economy was booming while he was in office, resulting in more $ being paid into SS than out. By law, operative word being law, the SSA must buy gov. securities with any reported surplus. This resulted in more intergovernmental debt. He used that $ to pay down the public deficit. The national debt is comprised of both intergov. and public debt. There was not a surplus. I remain a faithful dem., but will not twist facts to make my case, like you republicans do.

[issueresolved2008]

I am not trying to twist the facts. Democrats twist the facts. What I am trying to say is the Clinton left behind a recession.

[megC1983]

Sorry, but I do not agree.

[issueresolved2008]

You can do whatever you want, but don't attack what I feel is true when plenty of others apparently feel the same way.

[megC1983]

I keep trying to put web address's up to further substantiate my claim, however the comment keeps being deleted.

[CharlieRight]

megC1983 Check it out, the money came from the end of the cold war "peace Dividend" There was a reduction of defense spending under Bush and further cuts under Clinton. There was a Republican Congress for the last 6 years of Clinton's term, their "Contract with America" mandate resulted in part of the so called Surplus.

The news media reported a non existent recession During the Clinton/Bush election campaigns. We are now seeing a repeat of that.

[toilpainter]

Yeah!  That's right! Good job Joe.