Tony is the smartest dumb person I've seen. If their is any credit due to creationists it's that they are die hard contrarians at least when it comes to facts.
Tony gave one big ass argument from ignorance or incredulity "I don't know how life began so therefore god did it". Fails to understand the invalidity of pascal's gambit, fails to understand what atheism is and just plain fails in general. We don't need to take it as far as pointing out the problems with their particular form of theism, all we have to do is show the irrationality of the god belief in it's most basic form. We could go the extra mile but that's overkill, which amuses me
science could have proved the evolution theory correct hundreds of years ago if it wasnt for the cruel,sadistic,blood thirsty inqusitors whom forced great scientist to stop research and/or publication of their paper to the public!!!!
God seems to prefer a balance of evidence: there is enough reason to believe if we want to believe, but not enough to intellectually force belief against our will. Instead of overpowering us with undeniable logic or mighty miracles until we grudgingly give up and give in, God wants us to want to come to Him.
@musical149 How convenient. But I'll take the bate - consider now that God has disappeared. Somehow he's vanished, gone fishin' and he's never coming back. He doesn't tell anyone He's left. You wake up to this Godless day and what do you know? What will you do differently today than you ever have done before? I suggest nothing, because I suggest he doesn't exist and that the reasons he doesn't "overpower" us with his existence is simple - he doesn't exist.
Al-Quran has 1400 years ago and Muslim Scientists has been declared "He (God) makes you (human), in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness".
Al Quran sura Az Zumar;6
".....He (God) makes you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. . . ."
Have the Bible and scientists states "He (God ) makes you (human), in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness"?
Atheist want proof of God?,....God owe's us nothing!!!!....He does not have to prove to nonbeliever's He exists. Or when do you go to your boss at work and tell him what to do??? Be happy atheist's that if you repent and look for Him you will find Him.....and that He left a door open for you to enter heaven, BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH SOME OF YOU HATE GOD HE WILL LOVE YOU UNTIL THE END. (unfortunately after you are dead it's game over you will want to repent and it will be too late.)
This Tony character is one of the smartest religious people I have ever heard.
He is also a moron.
Btw, I love how they know exactly what god wants down to his feelings on stem cells, two dudes holding hands and which country to bomb but then when confronted with a question they can not answer, they say "man can not understand the mind of god!"
I am glad that we have debate between theists and atheists because it helps us to understand the world a little better. Please, just keep it intelligent. Be a CapnOrdinary rather than a Tonybonez. Let's all be respectful, and logical, and debate in a way that is conducive to a thoughtful, productive atmosphere.
That being said, the reason why I choose to be religious is not because necessarily see absolute, physical truth. I feel happy because of my religious beliefs. Going to church makes me feel fulfilled. Volunteering at the food bank with my friends from church does the same. I believe it is time that religion becomes less of a way to explain the world and more of a way to live in the world.
I am a religious person. Tonybonez was hilarious. Not in a "Ha-ha" way but in a "I weep for humanity" way.
I don't think that it is possible to scientifically prove that there is a god. I think that belief in god requires faith. Maybe one has had a profound spiritual experience of some sort, but other than that, there is no tangible proof. That is why we say that one is a member of "the catholic faith" rather than "the catholic direct observation of one's tangible surroundings."
BTW...bad choice of acronym for T-Bonez at 5:07. ( considering the message he's trying to instill) and I think Capn knows what "kinnding" means, very childish for a grown man.
1:30 makes no sense to me, and where did 0.0000000001 come from? So IN MY OPINION, Capn's credibility comes into question. 2000$ ? I never read that believing in a supreme being "costs" anything.
and the reference to achilles is silly. 5:35 T-Bonez "a reasonable" statement
6:00 The Rev. Moon comparison is irrelavant, as I recall the bible stating that there would be many imposters, but they would not last, that comment actually seems to favor TBz.
Even though I DON'T KNOW who is right, or whether it "takes faith" to be an atheist, or whether science has a good explantion as to where all this matter and life "came from" I do find TBz presentation a little more persuasive. To top this off, I find it a little nauseating that Capn would post "peace" at the end, after approx. 6-8 personal insults and/or sarcasims, (which in itself is a form of violence, and I would like to commend TBz for not retorting., maybe this in itself says something?
ofmany thousands of innocen people. Firstly why was this line there in the first place, and secondly why did God let this happen? As it was all done in his name.
Another teaching from the bible I dont know the exact line but I assure you it is there is for parents to kill thier sons if the are rebellious. Is this from the teachings of a loving God? Now we would look upon someone who would follow this teaching as sick and fucked up in the head! This shows that the bible is outdated and unreliable
"So the main benefit of being atheist is o you can have another man stick it in your butt?" Another one of your biased irrational viewpoints, you assume this is the main benifit of being athiest? you are twisting my words into something else entirely. Though im not homo or bi I was merely trying to approach this from thier point of view and make my point as least biased as possible. As they arent welcomed by the christian commmunity as being gay is a sin. However, there is no such...
... unfair prejudices amongst athiests (though there would obviously be some homophobia, as there would be in any other group of ppl). But enough on this.
Which historians do you speak of? How do you know they are trusted?
I think you must have been mislead with that Stephen Hawking quote, or you have simply got mixed up... maybe he was talking about how life came about our something. But if you are correct about the chance of Earth forming without an intelligent designer, then this would...
... have completely uprooted the way we have theorised how the solar system was formed and how other stars and solar systems are formed. It is very likely that you have got at least some of the details wrong. Tbh I think you have been brainwashed, you have been taught not to listen to the reasoning of those who do not believe in God because we are allegedly under Satan's influence (yeh right! :P ). You have been taught to bipass all reasoning and logic when it comes to thinking about...
... whether God exists or not because you have to have faith. This 'faith' is nothing more than believing in something no matter what... even if it has been completely disproven (again, im not saying God has been disproven, butthere is much evidence against his existence). Because of all this you are impossible to have a logical debate with. Either that or you are trolling (which I also partly suspect). Why dont you reply more to Martiangrundy's points. Do you have anything to say in response?
My first piece of evidence is the flaws and inconsistencies in the bible itself. Christians believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago, while ignoring the huge amounts of evidence against this such as fossils and the ability to determine something's age through a process called 'carbon dating. More;A certain teaching in the bible such as 'sufer not the witch to live' (we now know that the existence of witches is as improbable as that of unicorns). This led to the burning, mutilation...
If you read the old testement "God" is definetly NOT about being "loving" he is a "jealous god" he floods and kills innocents, turns innocent to salt, asks a man to kill his only son, has a wager with the devil and allows job to lose everything including his family and forsakes his only son. No in the old testement "god" is not the loving father he's EYE for a EYE. And as far as people believing that jesus was the son of god, there was a bunch of people who did'nt believe he was to back then
SO, you " Played it smart, and threw in with jesus just in case "EH?
And you consider this a noble and worthy reason to "believe" in your creator, just to hedge your bets, and get into heaven?
You don't give your omnipotent, omnipresent, god too much credit for sense, do you? Don't you image he would see through this?
So this position is superior to someone who in all honesty, and with all integrity, just cannot bring themselves to believe in far fetched sounding Mythological stories?
The silly old myth your talking about doesn't threaten me in the slightest, can you people not get this into your heads? It's no different than telling me Santa clause won't come if I'm not good.
You see NO ONE is risking hell, it's a complete fantasy.
"atheists complete irrationality".
You evidently don't know the definition of ir/rationality either.
Just how is it rational to believe in something for which there is NO evidence whatsoever.
What? The prophecies of the Old Testament coming true in the New Testament? There is no way we can consider them as reliable because they are written in the book that is being placed under scrutiny in this argument.
However there is much evidence against the bible eg: the line: "suffer not the witch to live" This teaching alone led to the burning and mutilation of thousands of innocent people. If God loves us so much then why did he teach this? Maybe cos he doesn't exist and these were made up.
The OT gives a time line of a man born in Bethlehem of a virgin, who would perform miracles, die, resurrect, and bring the entire world into the knowledge of the God of Israel.
And it all comes into fruition in the life of Jesus Christ.
Yes I know. But... it cannot be used as reliable evidence in this argument because we are debating the existence of God right? And therefore the accuracy of the bible.
Why don't we seperate the OLD and NEW Testaments and consider some of the OT as a prediciton or prophecy and try to look at the historical evidence that Jesus was the son of God.
When investigated in depth there si only 1 logical conclusion, but I often think it is atheists fear that keeps them ignorant. They fear the possibility of God so much they risk hell!!
There is not much historical evidence of this, or anything that happened in the bible that i am aware of.
FYI: Athiests arent afraid of the possibility of God because to them, his existence is simply out of the question. However I think this may be different with Agnostics. i am Agnostic I think, but i am a lot more convinced by the Atheist side than the theist. If there was substantial evidence in a particular religion being correct I would convert on the spot.
Not much evidence that Jesus was the son of God? What about the ressurection, or wait let me guess--just a hoax right. Or What about Jesus miracles---let me guess another hoax right. Or what about the Roman empire (largest in the world at the time) Officially declaring Jesus as God---another hoax??
Do you see why it takes more faith to be atheist or agnostic than Christian. I simply dont have that much faith!
HOW CAN YOU BE 100% SURE ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD?? I certainly am not!!
well you actually have to prove he was god using documents from that time that are non biblical. anyone can write a self fulfilling prophecy. the romans becoming christians isnt evidence just like people in iraq proclaiming muhammed is gods prophet isnt evidence of islam.
Havn't I said this before!? Information about historical events that has come from the bible itself cannot be considered suitable evidence because we are debating the accuracy of the book (the bible! just in case you forgot!) that it is coming from! Apart from what is written in the bible, there is very little evidence (that I am aware of) that anything like the miracles, or Jesus coming back from the dead actually happened. Please read my comments properly.
to imnoadvertiser1: saying "However there is much evidence against the bible eg: the line: "suffer not the witch to live" " this isnt actually evidence against the bible this is evidence against a loving god. someone could just come back with saying hes a jealous/vengeful god.
Well, I used that argument as it is opposite to what's taught in the bible (as you know - it teaches about a loving God). If the bible is wrong, then that would cast doubt on his very existence, not his personality. However, I guess you do have a point. But that would mean the bible is so flawed then why believe anyhthing it says?
there are better factual arguments against the accuracy of the bible. and if you think about it if god is the moral standard... and he is a lovely person according to his own book, whatever he does is an act of love because he sets the standards for love. i think the idea of hell is fucking rediculous but saying it is evidence againt the bible doesnt really work out well.
"When investigated in depth there si only 1 logical conclusion, but I often think it is atheists fear that keeps them ignorant. They fear the possibility of God so much they risk hell!!"
Sorry, but that statement is completely pisspotical!
Your talking complete broken biscuits.
We risk hell, because we fear the possibility of god??? BUT isn't hell the threat, why would we fear god, if it wasn't for hell? So we fear him, so we say he doesn't exist, is that it?
I think some atheists are afraid to admit that their might be a God because that means they are accountable for how they live, so they try to use a flawed logic to disprove God's existence, which is a fool's task, don't you agree?
Maybe, some may be afraid. But this, I believe would be a very small minority of athiests that think this way. After all, being athiest is the completele LACK OF belief in God, and without God, there is no hell to believe in either.
Then what source of information did you use to find out about these witnesses to Jesus' powers?
It was abad choice of words I used when I said "disprove," I know it is impossible. But disproving God is as impossible as disproving the existence of unicorns and the flying spaghetti monster. Yet we still think belief in them is silly.
But anyways, what I meant was that I would provide evidence against the existence of God, which I will provide in a moment.
The life of an athiest is free from the shackles of religon. We are free to do whatever we want (within reason - we still have to obey the laws of the countries we live in, though it is not that we have any desire to carry out evil acts such as murder or rape etc, I am athiest(ish) and I have no such desires). Basically people are more free, eg we can have sex whenever we want (homosexuals aswell) without the fear of hell... continuing
while the religious waste their time (in our opinion, as they are trying to communicate with a being that we do not believe to exist) praying every Sunday (im only using christians as an example here, other religions have different 'holy days') while we are out living our lives, furthering our careers etc. Now onto evidence against the existence of God...
I'm at a complete loss as to how you can come up with this nonsense. Maybe because I'm from the UK, but the way you think seems alien to me. AND you talk about "flawed logic".
We don't try to disprove god, it isn't possible to disprove something that doesn't exist.
Neither is it possible to prove he does exist.
BUT something that does exist has some kind of proof. IE something that is real, manifests in some way, hence it is detectable/measurable.
As I stated earlier. And you ignored, as you have with almost every point in every post.
"Obviously one cannot say anything with 100% certainty. But I'd say it's in the 99.9 odd% category, along with the existence of a god. YOUR god, I'd say 100% COULDN'T exist though."
If one hasn't been brainwashed into that way of thinking, it's simply a question of what is likely, or probable.
And I'm afraid god is very very very very unlikely. And as time goes on, and the worlds populace gets
If you were 1 of 1000 people---who had 1000 other people holding guns to all of your heads and they were going to fire in 3 seconds (giving everybody time to duck if they chose to); and only 1 gun had a bullet in the chamber would you choose to duck. Odds are that your gun does not have a bullet.
BTW: why do you assume I was born Christian. Remember to assume makes an ass out of "U" and "ME"!!!
NO ONE is born anything, you may be born into a christian or muslim houshold, however, how does one call a chld who cannot even comprehend anything, any denomination of religion?
I'm sorry but your pathetic analogy only illustrated just how irrational you are, and how far you misunderstand what I was saying, it's really merely Pascals wager, dressed in modern attire.
Stop keep trying to prove the bible with the bible. It CANNOT work.
progressively more educated, more and more people will naturally understand that.
And all this silly talk, (like satan and god) will be very largely assigned to the vualt of history, and myth, as have the one's that have fallen out of fashion, Thor, Dionysus, RA, etc, etc.
After all the only difference is you have been brought up to believe Yawah is the correct one. Had you been brought up elsewhere, or another time, you would believe something entirely different.
So you admit that trying to disprove God is a fools mission, right! Tell that to imnoadvertiser: he tells me he is going to disprove God (see his comments below)
God is detectable if you understand the life of Jesus and how astronomical the odds are that humans not only were created, but that we survived this long.
Faith is not just simply a question of what is likely, or probable.
The life of Jesus is taught in the bible, a book which has proven to be much less than reliable. You keep providing references from the bible, even though in a logical argument these cannot be used as we are debating the accuracy of the bible itself (how many times have i said this?). How are the odds that humans were created by an intelligent designer astronomical? do you have evidence? Or is it a flawed opinion you've heard from others?
It seems, after all, (how depressing, I was sure you'de get it in the end, and not merely LEAP onto the fact I'd mentioned not proving god, seems I gave you far too much credit), that indeed you are incapable of comprehending what I was saying. I'll say it again, in case you've forgotten.
""Obviously one cannot say anything with 100% certainty. But I'd say it's in the 99.9 odd% category, along with the existence of a god. YOUR god, I'd say 100% COULDN'T exist though.""
It seems my brain in a vat analogy, passed you by completely.
STRICTLY speaking, we can NEVER say anything is 100%, even that were here on earth.
In practical terms, absolutely we can, as I stated earlier.
Just HOW, is god detectable? Your talking completely at cross purposes, (after all Ive said), sorry but your reasoning is childish, and very rudimentary. Ive had far more grown up discussions with my 16 year old stepson. Sorry to insult you, but I dont know how else to say it.
Well, I don't see that as in any way strange, it's a shame you do.
Obviously one cannot say anything with 100% certainty. But I'd say it's in the 99.9 odd% category, along with the existence of a god. YOUR god, I'd say 100% COULDN'T exist though.
So can I take it you don't believe that when we die (our bodies cease to function) we cease to exist.
luckily we are biodegradable, and so will rot down nicely back into the constituent elements that we temporarily borrowed from the universe. Naturally
What the fool lacks in knowledge he will make up in certainty!!!
Basically you have no idea what happens when you die or how life started on Earth. You just have a little voice in your head that says "it could not be God, it had to have happened naturally all on its own.....go ahead deny God against all reason"
and that little voice is the Devil trying to mess with you.
Bottom line no human besides Jesus fully understands God or the universe.
In my unbiased opinion, I declare Toneybonez the winner, even though I have no idea who is right, "capn" seemed less civil, and was on the defensive, without any real convincing comments. next please...
Cosidering the fact that "Capn" put this video out, I'd say without a doubt he seemed more desperate to convince people that there is no god, and typically resorts to insults and temper tantrums. Having no idea who is right has nothig to do with who I thought was more convincing..Capn loses, as do most atheist vs. theist debaters.
But in most young earth creationist vs. old earth evoluntionist debates, I mostly go with the latter, but even so, I don't know if evolution in a fact.
"and Hmmm, if I were to have an opinion as to who was right wouldn't THAT make me biased???"
Well, YES absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Can I then take it you've done a complete turn around. It wouldn't be the first time I've debated with a believer who likes to flip flop around, not knowing actually what they think. Why I wonder did you change your mind? You DO remember your earlier opinion?
"in my unbiased opinion, I declare Toneybonez the winner, even though I have no idea who is right".
Remember what I said about emotional "knee jerk reactions"?
Not that I'm surprised, you don't strike me as the most rational of thinkers. I'm afraid you really don't make much sense.
O.J. Simpson, indeed.
And it's MY comments that were absurd? When one spins a 180, and completely contradicts one's self within a couple of posts, it comes across as a little flaky, to say the least.
I suggest you re read your posts, and try to come down on one side or the other.
No, you don't upset me...you are just a clone of every other atheist out there. I WAS going to end my post last night with; Watch folks, the next thing you will observe is a pathetic attempt at insults...I REALLY WAS! LOL,
grundy, you have really gotten out of hand, this obsession with your invisible primordial soup god is really out of hand! But I guess you have plenty of time on your hands since the chicks won't go near ya! :D
So why don't you go STALK someone else who gives a rats ass!
Once again...what part of "I don't know" don't you understand????????????
and why do you think I would want to have this discussion with someone as repulsive & arrogant as yourself?
Fact is no one knows how life began, and even though I have never stated what I believe in, you somehow ASSumed you did. How can anyone be irrational enough to say they "know" there is no "God", when even the scientific community is mixed on the idea. Pure arrogance!
You keep telling yourself, if it makes you feel better. You'll be well practised in that art, I don't doubt.
"Fact is no one knows how life began".
NO, we don't. So in the absence of anything concrete well wish into existence a deity, to make us feel better. THERE THERE THERE!!! Pat's on head, a number of times.
There you go again, it's SO typical. Inventing what folk say to make you sound as if you know what your saying.
there is no god, (even though it's very highly improbable. Impossible if one want's to go with the self contradictory myth of the bible).
Arrogance??? HHMMMmmmm? Yes I suppose it's far more arrogant, than thinking the universe was created just for US. And by merely "praying" one can have the grand gaffer of the whole shebang actually listen, and even change the natural order, and events, in YOUR favour.
I may be wrong, but I don't recall reading anywhere in the christian bible that we are alone in the universe, but I cannot speak for the koran, or any others as of now.
I may be wrong, but I don't recall reading anywhere in the christian bible that we are alone in the universe, but I cannot speak for the koran, or any others as of now."
So That's it is it? You do yet another climbdown, ramble a little more, and that's it?
What about all the BULLSHIT and LEIS, and INSULTS? (not that I'd expect an apology from you, it's usually only people of integrity).
How could they talk about the universe in an old book? They still imagined
yes grundy...what ABOUT all your BULLSHIT & LIES, and "INULTS"???
I no longer know how to converse with you, you came on at first as arrogant, then you "insult" me first, you make unwarranted assumptions about what my point of view is, and you want me to dignify your dilusional comments by answering your inimaginative questions, as if you were even eqiupped mentally to understand them???
Sorry dude, you have some sort of irrational obsession with this topic,
I'll leave it up to those who can be bothered, to judge.
You really are worth no more time.
I've had more coherence and rationality from my 3 y old niece.
If you reply again, you'll leave me no choice but to collect some of your choice imbecilities, and your contradictory statements together, in one (or four) glorious postings.
If nothing else it will illustrate that I wasn't completely "out of order" with the initial sarcasm.
"honesty and dignity.or integrity" I'm shocked you can spell 'em
You really can't see where you've flip flopped, and contradicted yourself? You've answered umpteen questions, that weren't even asked, hardly any of the ones asked.
Quite apart from trying to "get my goat" by calling me grundy. You've actually admitted TWICE you were wrong, about a couple points.
I was sarcastic about a comment you made, YOU started the insults, and carried on with them.
Can you really go back through all these posts and NOT feel a chump?
grundy...U are out of control man, I suggest you seek counseling, I have a very good friend that is a psychologist, and definitley sees a problem here..ok..
You asked me WHY I thought T-Bonez won...so I told you...end of story. YOU on the other hand have lied, put words & thoughts in my mouth, you are a desperate, deceitful, confused little man, with a chip on his shoulder, more than likely spawned on by something stemming from "religion" or something to do with "God" or a god.
I do not understand what points you are trying to make, or WHY you are so concerned about whether I believe in a supernatural existence, HOW DOES THIS AFFECT YOU???
Where you molested by a preist? Are you dissatisfied with your life? I really do think counseling could help you! Good luck grumpy..I mean grundy :D
Just look at all your completely unbiased comments.
I really have lost interest now, although it was one hell of a chuckle, going back through and reading some of the gems you've posted. Though I can understand how youd enjoy it less. What an embarrassment. Can you even bear it?
I urge anyone with 5 mins to spare, to just flip back a couple of pages, and soak in some "unbiased opinion".
Yes, of course you've "lost interest", or "have no time" grundy...that's the first thing a loser says...and yet continues to post lame brain comments.
Yes, my unbiased opinion is T-Bonez "won" this debate, because he was more convincing. But I don't know who is actually correct, and neither do you, and I am willing to listen to any intelligent opinions & information on this topic from any viewpoint. But this obviously leaves you out, as you have yet to say anything intelligent thus far!
And it isn't as though you've left me with no material, EH? AND, you keep on supplying me with a fresh lot, every post.
You sound very het up again, BTW using my name really won't bother me in the slightest it merely points to your level. But you aren't very old are you?
Ha ha ha ha, there you go again.
"Yes, my unbiased opinion is T-Bonez "won" this debate, because he was more convincing. But I don't know who is actually correct, and neither
Your UNBIASED opinion, (CHORTLE, SNIGGER, CHUCKLE), You just fail to get it, don't you. Every time you post this idiocy, you give someone new a chuckle, to brighten their day. You keep it up, the world needs to laugh more.
Your name itself merely adds an extra flavour of irony, especially after reading your posts. I at first thought it was sarcastic, or satirical, and was actually starting to smile, until I started to read your posts, and realised you REALLY think it is true.
Using your "NAME" doesn't bother you? Hmmmm...DUH??? Is using your NAME suppose to bother you? Hmmm, You're not dealing with a full deck grundy, but since this is the second time you've mentioned me using your NAME??? It can ONLY mean that it DOES bother you :D
But I really don't intend to do that...so I'll quit. How about Dumbo? or Bozo?? IDK, but there is still no trace of an intelligent discussion coming from you, so maybe you should consult your 3 yo. neice
to see if she can help you to understand. It's really very simple, unless you are afraid?
BTW; You are a classic, very predictable, very transparent, you are doing typical "loser" things, ie; "wondering" how old I am, constantly mentioning "3rd" party observations, creating false conclusions through false observations, Dumbo....Why do u feel the need to dance around the subject, and be so evasive with intelligent responses? Or are you still clowning me? Maybe "Bozo" is better? let me know! :D
You can call me whatever you please, and believe whatever you like too. (I'm sure you're well practised in this "art".
Intelligent discussion???
You really have GOT to be joking now. SURELY? NO maybe not.
So far ALL your intelligent discussion has been to childishly name call, and tell leis.
Your non existent credibility, and complete lack of even the most basic of understanding, illustrates perfectly to anyone reading these posts, just how old you are (intellectually speaking).
Since YOU are the one with an agenda here, YOU need to sway my opinion, I on the other hand am UNBIASED, I came to listen to this video with an open mind, and I still believe people are still free speak there opinion without the "thought" Nazi's FORCING people what & how to think!!
So good day sir! For people reading these posts, YOU too have the right to believe however u want. DON'T let GRUNDY or anyone else try to make u think otherwise! In YOUR place G! :P
the "firmament", as a dome over the FLAT disk of the earth, with tiny dots of light. Unless of course there actually was a god, BUT there is no such knowledge contained therein, is there? Why not I wonder?
It's only very recently WE'VE started to understand the size. Have YOU looked? Do you have a handle on this universe we inhabit, and just how BIG and old it really is?
BUT, If were alone in the universe. The upshot would be YOUR god made the
OR, there is other lifeforms in the universe. Did YOUR god make these also? Do you suppose they are "created in his image"? Why no mention of this in a "holy" book?
These questions, no matter which side one comes down on, cause problems in a theistic world-view.
A Naturalistic view, has no such problems. There are no old stories, or dogma to adhere to.
just how big the universe is? You do? And you still imagine it's all for little old us?
And you still think your NOT deluded?
SNIGGER! CHORTLE! SNIGGER! GUFFAW! CHUCKLE!
BTW, You can insult me all day M8, it will not bother me in the least. I just wish you realised how much you were actually being laughed at here, imagining it could.
Go on, you keep "proving" just how thick I am. FAR easier than actually addressing a point, EH?
WOW! my comments had more affect on you than I ever imagined they would!! LOL
you really haven't said much with these 3 comments, only to show you are obsessed by the idea that I MAY possibly believe in a lifeform superior to us reponsible for our exsistence.
Perhaps not necessarily in our "BIG" <---(lol) universe, but maybe even in dimensons apart from our big ol' uni. 2 questions;
How can you possibly arrive at all these assumptions about what I'm thinking & again, why do you care???
I wouldn't expect you to understand, how could you.
Obsessed? No not at all, why would you think that? I "discus" with folk like you all the time.
"Perhaps not necessarily in our "BIG" <---(lol) universe, but maybe even in dimensons apart from our big ol' uni."
Ha Ha Ha. you really are a dim pathetic sort of clown really aren't you, I really won't bother with that, I'll leave it up to everyone else to draw their own conclusions.
How about YOU answer a question, I don't think you have yet.
I could keep the insults rolling in, but I won't, even if you did start them.
I'm not really sure what questions you have asked, I just DON'T KNOW if there is a "God" or not, why would you expect me to dicsuss this with someone who is so vehemently against anyone that even remotely resembles a theist? You've asked me why I think T-Bone won, I told u, b/c he was more convincing to me, would u still be asking me why, if I had posted Cap'n "won"?
Evidently not on the content, or what is said, Its sounds to me as though you're the one who is over emotionally involved, desperate to try to defend your irrational, outdated, invisible man in the sky, belief system.
I know. How about you try to actually rebutt the things in the video, and at least give the odd reason, as to WHY you think "he won", that would carry a little more weight than an emotional "knee jerk" reaction.
He's an idiot. You should point him to one of DonExodus2's videos on abiogenesis and tell him that many of the components that make up life have been created in the lab.
I have no idea if there is, or isn't a god or gods who created the universe and all mankind, and there's no way that anyone could ever know until they die, which does us here on earth no good. My personal beliefs are that If there IS a god/gods, i'll find out when i die, if not it doesn't matter, if you showed me irrefutable evidence that there was a god/gods i'll believe, if you show me evidence that they're isn't i'll believe that theyre isnt, if you dont show me any evidence, i just wont kno
It seems that tonybones had some very valid points and you kept spewing BS and saying next as if you had actually answered something. lol
Atheism is the belief that there is no God.
NOT, that there is no evidence of one. That would be agnostic.
The idea of a God existing or not can never be proven. That said, having a position on either side of the subject takes the exact same amount of faith.
Atheism is too religious to be involved in science.
Atheism can also mean that you don't believe in the god of the bible or any other god that wants to be known or who is actively involved in the affairs of humans. Does it take faith to not believe in Thor or Zeus? Why not? Because there is no reason to believe in them. What reason is there to believe in JC or god of the bible or Allah? Remove the "holy" books and what do you have? All of the desert dogmas rely heavily on the bible, not something I would want to have as a foundation.
Agnostic means you can't know if there is a god. Atheists do not believe in a god, but not necessarily that there definitely is no god. If you don't believe in something for which there is no proof or evidence, that doesn't need faith. You can't prove there is no flying spaghetti monster, but what is the likelihood of it actually existing? We have science that shows us the bible is wrong about the creation of the world and creation of life. Loss of creation is total loss of credibility.
Your definitions are wrong, and the above definition is right. In any event, it takes no faith at all to not believe in god or to believe that the god of the bible (as described) does not exist.
You are wrong about this. Agnostic means that you state that it is not possible to know either way. I am an atheist and I don't believe in god (at least not the desert god), and I think the odds are pretty low for a god, but I can't assert that there is no god with any certainty.
Matt D. discusses this occasionally on The Atheist Experience. Try searching for it on youtube.
Using your definitions of the two, what is the difference between "it is not possible to know either way" and "I can't assert that there is no god with any certainty".
That sounds like pretty much the same damn thing to me. lol
you know I'm pretty god damn certain that agnosticism is someone who is not sure about whether god exists they think it could be but they can't be certain(the old joke what do you get if you cross a agnostic,a dyslexic and an insomniac-someone who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog)
An Athiest is just-they don't believe that god exists. Athiesm doesn't imply any other beliefs-its just no there is no God.
Being that no one can know that god exists for sure, then saying that there is no god makes it a belief.
Atheism is the "belief" that there is "no god", not that you can't prove it. You are dead on with your definition of agnosticism, but christo930 swears it and atheism have the same definition. idk why. lol
I'm repeating myself at this point. I think you get it.
I disagree not with agnostic/athiest nonsense but that you can't know for sure that god doesn't exist,as in I don't think he can logically exist and loads of other different reasons. I believe 100% that I know God doesn't exist.Of course I could still be wrong I don't know how but I could be, so is that not 100%?If so why even bother with the full 100%?
I meant that I religious isn't the right word for athiesm, yeah you can't empirically prove god so its a belief but I don't think religious describes this.
Yes there is 0 difference between the actual context of them, but since athiesm is just saying there is no god(s),then pantheism is taking that one step further.Most athiest are probably panthiests without knowing it.I'd also say that generally science is the way of understanding the world and panthiesm is the human side of that. religion provides something for people and discarding that as athiesm might suggest ,panthiesm embraces that.
I heard a funny story and I don't know if it's true. "Issac newton, having reached a stage of financial success, had a clocksmith create a scale model of the solar system, with complete rotational and orbits. Later a visiting Atheist friend comes to visit and inquires about the makre. Newton replies that there is no maker. the atheist is outraged at the insult to his intelligence for surely this has a maker. Newton then burns him on his doublestandard. no fair,HLMGTFUing
It's not a double standard at all. The assumption that all of reality is a creation and to compare the universe to a clanking-mechanical clock-like machine is quite questionable, since the universe is constantly expanding, which the model could not do.-Obvious human-creation.Indeed the solar system is changing as well.Like an explosion would do...and what then, would have created god? Double standards you say?
This is absolutely silly. The real solar system isn't made out of processed iron or wood that has been cut to shape.
Does helium need to be "made by a maker"? We see it being made by the mega ton every single second in the sun. Chemical reactions and nuclear fusion take place without direction.
there is no god and only our worldly life exist we live and we die..some people live and others die replacing them.. and nothing destroys us except time.. stop believing in God!!!
Atheists shoudn't waste our time with theists. They just play semantic cheap tricks. They believe in god because they are afraid of dying. Technology will solve that and religions will not exist anymore other than in history books. Theists will try to stop this technologies. We, the atheist, should support these tecnology advances, like we have always done
I'm not sure technology cuold ever prevent death but I do think atheists should stop wasting time debating theists. I'm not a big fan of Dawkins but he came out with a great one-liner when invited to debate at some creationist diploma mill. He just said, 'That would look good on your CV, not on mine'. pwned
i like the math reason for believing in god, (just incase). Least it makes sense. The beauty with science, and atheism, is if you proove us wrong we'll happily follow you. Whereas you can demonstrate the bible is b.s (flood, ark), but they stick with it, literally blinded by faith
you could have gone into how DNA and RNA are made up of chains of amino acids. you could have stated that lipids form double walled vesicles under conditions that the early earth was prone to. maybe shown how single molecule monomers can link up into polymers, all by following the laws of physics....
but i think all of these points would have been lost on him.
(i personally refuse to argue with people who can't tell the difference between 'their' and 'there')
When he said that man's science cannot disprove god, I find myself wanting to shout at him, "So what the fuck WILL???"
I mean, whether there is a god or isn't, what evidence could possibly prove or disprove this god? And if the answer is "none," then on what basis should one assert that such a creature exists? Faith and faith alone? Because that's the very definition of gullible.
To find the most compelling arguments against one religion, ask a competing one's proponents opinion. In other words, to find what's wrong with Christianity, on simply has to ask a Muslim for instance.
The problem isn't only extra religious. Even amongst Christianity there is about 30 000 denominations. You'd think that the Holy Spirit would be more consistent than that in its revelations of the truth....
Guys, we seriously need to find a way to disprove god in a rhetorical sense, seeing as it's the kind of evidence they like. 1. Does god defeat himself in purpose or word? 2. ... Nevermind, that's the wrong route. But seriously, there must be some way, even if it ends up being an irrational argument. Irrational arguments are very effective, so even if they stroke a cord of immorality with you, do use them. They can be very productive when dealing with most people.
Yea another commenter said it already.
Tony is the smartest dumb person I've seen. If their is any credit due to creationists it's that they are die hard contrarians at least when it comes to facts.
dibaterman 1 year ago
@dibaterman
surely the same could be said of athiests :P
gammaray4evrr 9 months ago
@gammaray4evrr
Your statement says too much while saying too little. Please elaborate...
dibaterman 9 months ago
@dibaterman
it could be said that evolutionists are die hard contrarians when i comes to facts :P
gammaray4evrr 9 months ago
Tony gave one big ass argument from ignorance or incredulity "I don't know how life began so therefore god did it". Fails to understand the invalidity of pascal's gambit, fails to understand what atheism is and just plain fails in general. We don't need to take it as far as pointing out the problems with their particular form of theism, all we have to do is show the irrationality of the god belief in it's most basic form. We could go the extra mile but that's overkill, which amuses me
ShaolinSoldier 1 year ago
science could have proved the evolution theory correct hundreds of years ago if it wasnt for the cruel,sadistic,blood thirsty inqusitors whom forced great scientist to stop research and/or publication of their paper to the public!!!!
XStompsTheVillain3 1 year ago
This tony kid gets unlimited facepalm. >.<
Ye4hBuddy 1 year ago
1 benefit form atheism over Christianity... SUNDAYS OFF.
THEMADMANINYOURATTIC 1 year ago
God seems to prefer a balance of evidence: there is enough reason to believe if we want to believe, but not enough to intellectually force belief against our will. Instead of overpowering us with undeniable logic or mighty miracles until we grudgingly give up and give in, God wants us to want to come to Him.
musical149 1 year ago
@musical149 How convenient. But I'll take the bate - consider now that God has disappeared. Somehow he's vanished, gone fishin' and he's never coming back. He doesn't tell anyone He's left. You wake up to this Godless day and what do you know? What will you do differently today than you ever have done before? I suggest nothing, because I suggest he doesn't exist and that the reasons he doesn't "overpower" us with his existence is simple - he doesn't exist.
deed02392 1 year ago
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@deed02392
which cannot be proven
gammaray4evrr 9 months ago
@musical149 I won't go to a god who condones slavery.
EvilPieMaKer 1 year ago
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Al-Quran has 1400 years ago and Muslim Scientists has been declared "He (God) makes you (human), in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness".
Al Quran sura Az Zumar;6
".....He (God) makes you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. . . ."
Have the Bible and scientists states "He (God ) makes you (human), in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness"?
mollenth 1 year ago
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Atheist want proof of God?,....God owe's us nothing!!!!....He does not have to prove to nonbeliever's He exists. Or when do you go to your boss at work and tell him what to do??? Be happy atheist's that if you repent and look for Him you will find Him.....and that He left a door open for you to enter heaven, BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH SOME OF YOU HATE GOD HE WILL LOVE YOU UNTIL THE END. (unfortunately after you are dead it's game over you will want to repent and it will be too late.)
TheDan4545 1 year ago
Perhaps the most peaceful resolution to the tiring debate of God's existence, is to assume an Agnostic stand.
The existence of God is difficult or currently impossible to prove or disapprove.
Matters little what history of both religion & science has shown us, for the only certainty is that time warps our history.
EmzekRufus 1 year ago
I just don't get how people can be presented with mountains of evidence and say.. nope it doesn't matter cuz I have faith.
iversonmatthew 2 years ago 3
@iversonmatthew
WHAT EVEIDENCE??????
tonybonez 6 months ago
The sad thing is, if I hadn't been on youtube for the last few years or so, I wouldn't have thought this real.
phocjame 2 years ago
This Tony character is one of the smartest religious people I have ever heard.
He is also a moron.
Btw, I love how they know exactly what god wants down to his feelings on stem cells, two dudes holding hands and which country to bomb but then when confronted with a question they can not answer, they say "man can not understand the mind of god!"
jimbrown257 2 years ago 18
very well said
zantiertasa 2 years ago
LOOOOL wth?? 9:05 he says "just to believe something because yo have seen it before sounds like something a crazy person would say"
you don't believe something you've seen before with your own eyes?? you don't believe what you see with your eyes?!?!?!?! what a retard.
rammy912 2 years ago
I am glad that we have debate between theists and atheists because it helps us to understand the world a little better. Please, just keep it intelligent. Be a CapnOrdinary rather than a Tonybonez. Let's all be respectful, and logical, and debate in a way that is conducive to a thoughtful, productive atmosphere.
Unclebobisnumber1 2 years ago
Cont.
That being said, the reason why I choose to be religious is not because necessarily see absolute, physical truth. I feel happy because of my religious beliefs. Going to church makes me feel fulfilled. Volunteering at the food bank with my friends from church does the same. I believe it is time that religion becomes less of a way to explain the world and more of a way to live in the world.
Unclebobisnumber1 2 years ago
I am a religious person. Tonybonez was hilarious. Not in a "Ha-ha" way but in a "I weep for humanity" way.
I don't think that it is possible to scientifically prove that there is a god. I think that belief in god requires faith. Maybe one has had a profound spiritual experience of some sort, but other than that, there is no tangible proof. That is why we say that one is a member of "the catholic faith" rather than "the catholic direct observation of one's tangible surroundings."
Unclebobisnumber1 2 years ago
its not about winning.
ahaha
crow1448 2 years ago
BTW...bad choice of acronym for T-Bonez at 5:07. ( considering the message he's trying to instill) and I think Capn knows what "kinnding" means, very childish for a grown man.
1unbiased 2 years ago
1:30 makes no sense to me, and where did 0.0000000001 come from? So IN MY OPINION, Capn's credibility comes into question. 2000$ ? I never read that believing in a supreme being "costs" anything.
1:55 bad comment-Capn
2:55 Capn makes a good point.
3:10 T-Bonez makes a good point, and IMO you cannot compare pixies or fairies, etc. to the impact of the contents of the Christian bible.
3:45 Capn makes a valid point.
4:25 bad post - Capn, I would not call the text "random" & new test ,bronze?
1unbiased 2 years ago
and the reference to achilles is silly. 5:35 T-Bonez "a reasonable" statement
6:00 The Rev. Moon comparison is irrelavant, as I recall the bible stating that there would be many imposters, but they would not last, that comment actually seems to favor TBz.
6:40 good point TBz
8:02 good point Capn, (but could have done w/o the sarcasim.
8:10 VERY good point Tbz
8:30-8:40 Capn makes some reasonable assumptions
The "pink unicorn" at 9:20 is a bad example, TBz goes on to say this.
1unbiased 2 years ago
Even though I DON'T KNOW who is right, or whether it "takes faith" to be an atheist, or whether science has a good explantion as to where all this matter and life "came from" I do find TBz presentation a little more persuasive. To top this off, I find it a little nauseating that Capn would post "peace" at the end, after approx. 6-8 personal insults and/or sarcasims, (which in itself is a form of violence, and I would like to commend TBz for not retorting., maybe this in itself says something?
1unbiased 2 years ago
ofmany thousands of innocen people. Firstly why was this line there in the first place, and secondly why did God let this happen? As it was all done in his name.
Another teaching from the bible I dont know the exact line but I assure you it is there is for parents to kill thier sons if the are rebellious. Is this from the teachings of a loving God? Now we would look upon someone who would follow this teaching as sick and fucked up in the head! This shows that the bible is outdated and unreliable
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
imnoadvertiser1:
I use the writings of trusted historians to find out about Jesus time period.
Stephen Hawking has estimated the chances of Earth forming all on its own to be about 1 in 10 to the 62nd power. I trust him more than you.
So the main benefit of being atheist is o you can have another man stick it in your butt?
That doesn't seem like enough of a benefit.
1 benefit of Christianity: an insurance policy on the eternal soul!!
If there is no God we both are dirt, but if there is?
tonybonez 2 years ago
"So the main benefit of being atheist is o you can have another man stick it in your butt?" Another one of your biased irrational viewpoints, you assume this is the main benifit of being athiest? you are twisting my words into something else entirely. Though im not homo or bi I was merely trying to approach this from thier point of view and make my point as least biased as possible. As they arent welcomed by the christian commmunity as being gay is a sin. However, there is no such...
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
... unfair prejudices amongst athiests (though there would obviously be some homophobia, as there would be in any other group of ppl). But enough on this.
Which historians do you speak of? How do you know they are trusted?
I think you must have been mislead with that Stephen Hawking quote, or you have simply got mixed up... maybe he was talking about how life came about our something. But if you are correct about the chance of Earth forming without an intelligent designer, then this would...
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
... have completely uprooted the way we have theorised how the solar system was formed and how other stars and solar systems are formed. It is very likely that you have got at least some of the details wrong. Tbh I think you have been brainwashed, you have been taught not to listen to the reasoning of those who do not believe in God because we are allegedly under Satan's influence (yeh right! :P ). You have been taught to bipass all reasoning and logic when it comes to thinking about...
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
... whether God exists or not because you have to have faith. This 'faith' is nothing more than believing in something no matter what... even if it has been completely disproven (again, im not saying God has been disproven, butthere is much evidence against his existence). Because of all this you are impossible to have a logical debate with. Either that or you are trolling (which I also partly suspect). Why dont you reply more to Martiangrundy's points. Do you have anything to say in response?
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
My first piece of evidence is the flaws and inconsistencies in the bible itself. Christians believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago, while ignoring the huge amounts of evidence against this such as fossils and the ability to determine something's age through a process called 'carbon dating. More;A certain teaching in the bible such as 'sufer not the witch to live' (we now know that the existence of witches is as improbable as that of unicorns). This led to the burning, mutilation...
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
If you read the old testement "God" is definetly NOT about being "loving" he is a "jealous god" he floods and kills innocents, turns innocent to salt, asks a man to kill his only son, has a wager with the devil and allows job to lose everything including his family and forsakes his only son. No in the old testement "god" is not the loving father he's EYE for a EYE. And as far as people believing that jesus was the son of god, there was a bunch of people who did'nt believe he was to back then
vger1970 2 years ago
SO, you " Played it smart, and threw in with jesus just in case "EH?
And you consider this a noble and worthy reason to "believe" in your creator, just to hedge your bets, and get into heaven?
You don't give your omnipotent, omnipresent, god too much credit for sense, do you? Don't you image he would see through this?
So this position is superior to someone who in all honesty, and with all integrity, just cannot bring themselves to believe in far fetched sounding Mythological stories?
WHY.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
see through what?? All he asked for was faith, right??
Faith in Christianity is superior because it means I go to heaven and you to hell, don't worry you will understand when you are there!!
I just dont see how it is worth trying to win some Youtube debate at the risk of hell!!!
I honestly don't and that is why I am on Youtube, to try and understand atheists complete irrationality......
tonybonez 2 years ago
Can you be saying these things tonybonez ?
The silly old myth your talking about doesn't threaten me in the slightest, can you people not get this into your heads? It's no different than telling me Santa clause won't come if I'm not good.
You see NO ONE is risking hell, it's a complete fantasy.
"atheists complete irrationality".
You evidently don't know the definition of ir/rationality either.
Just how is it rational to believe in something for which there is NO evidence whatsoever.
Idiocy
martiangrundy 2 years ago
Wow, the first person on youtube to know exactly what happens when you die!! Jeez I dont even know any Christians who are as certain as you.
Just because you profess endless faith in atheism, doesnt make it so........
No evidence of Christianity????
Where I start, have you ever heard of All the prophecies of the OT??
tonybonez 2 years ago
What? The prophecies of the Old Testament coming true in the New Testament? There is no way we can consider them as reliable because they are written in the book that is being placed under scrutiny in this argument.
However there is much evidence against the bible eg: the line: "suffer not the witch to live" This teaching alone led to the burning and mutilation of thousands of innocent people. If God loves us so much then why did he teach this? Maybe cos he doesn't exist and these were made up.
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
The OT gives a time line of a man born in Bethlehem of a virgin, who would perform miracles, die, resurrect, and bring the entire world into the knowledge of the God of Israel.
And it all comes into fruition in the life of Jesus Christ.
tonybonez 2 years ago
Yes I know. But... it cannot be used as reliable evidence in this argument because we are debating the existence of God right? And therefore the accuracy of the bible.
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
Why don't we seperate the OLD and NEW Testaments and consider some of the OT as a prediciton or prophecy and try to look at the historical evidence that Jesus was the son of God.
When investigated in depth there si only 1 logical conclusion, but I often think it is atheists fear that keeps them ignorant. They fear the possibility of God so much they risk hell!!
tonybonez 2 years ago
There is not much historical evidence of this, or anything that happened in the bible that i am aware of.
FYI: Athiests arent afraid of the possibility of God because to them, his existence is simply out of the question. However I think this may be different with Agnostics. i am Agnostic I think, but i am a lot more convinced by the Atheist side than the theist. If there was substantial evidence in a particular religion being correct I would convert on the spot.
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
Not much evidence that Jesus was the son of God? What about the ressurection, or wait let me guess--just a hoax right. Or What about Jesus miracles---let me guess another hoax right. Or what about the Roman empire (largest in the world at the time) Officially declaring Jesus as God---another hoax??
Do you see why it takes more faith to be atheist or agnostic than Christian. I simply dont have that much faith!
HOW CAN YOU BE 100% SURE ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF GOD?? I certainly am not!!
tonybonez 2 years ago
well you actually have to prove he was god using documents from that time that are non biblical. anyone can write a self fulfilling prophecy. the romans becoming christians isnt evidence just like people in iraq proclaiming muhammed is gods prophet isnt evidence of islam.
uberownagemonkey 2 years ago 6
and btw using the roman empire declaring jesus is god is just such a stupid argument i shat myself and came from the lulz AT THE SAME TIME
uberownagemonkey 2 years ago
Havn't I said this before!? Information about historical events that has come from the bible itself cannot be considered suitable evidence because we are debating the accuracy of the book (the bible! just in case you forgot!) that it is coming from! Apart from what is written in the bible, there is very little evidence (that I am aware of) that anything like the miracles, or Jesus coming back from the dead actually happened. Please read my comments properly.
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
there are other accounts of Jesus life than the Bible, would you like some.
tonybonez 2 years ago
Ofcourse. Lets hear them! : )
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
to imnoadvertiser1: saying "However there is much evidence against the bible eg: the line: "suffer not the witch to live" " this isnt actually evidence against the bible this is evidence against a loving god. someone could just come back with saying hes a jealous/vengeful god.
uberownagemonkey 2 years ago
Well, I used that argument as it is opposite to what's taught in the bible (as you know - it teaches about a loving God). If the bible is wrong, then that would cast doubt on his very existence, not his personality. However, I guess you do have a point. But that would mean the bible is so flawed then why believe anyhthing it says?
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
there are better factual arguments against the accuracy of the bible. and if you think about it if god is the moral standard... and he is a lovely person according to his own book, whatever he does is an act of love because he sets the standards for love. i think the idea of hell is fucking rediculous but saying it is evidence againt the bible doesnt really work out well.
uberownagemonkey 2 years ago
Eh? When did I say that?
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
WWHHAAATTTT!!!!!!!
"When investigated in depth there si only 1 logical conclusion, but I often think it is atheists fear that keeps them ignorant. They fear the possibility of God so much they risk hell!!"
Sorry, but that statement is completely pisspotical!
Your talking complete broken biscuits.
We risk hell, because we fear the possibility of god??? BUT isn't hell the threat, why would we fear god, if it wasn't for hell? So we fear him, so we say he doesn't exist, is that it?
This is crazy!
martiangrundy 2 years ago
I think some atheists are afraid to admit that their might be a God because that means they are accountable for how they live, so they try to use a flawed logic to disprove God's existence, which is a fool's task, don't you agree?
tonybonez 2 years ago
Maybe, some may be afraid. But this, I believe would be a very small minority of athiests that think this way. After all, being athiest is the completele LACK OF belief in God, and without God, there is no hell to believe in either.
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
However, the logic we use to disprove God is a lot less flawed than you think. Would you like to see some examples?
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
imnoadvertiser1:
There are plenty of witnesses to Jesus who are not mentioned in the Bible: Emperor Tiberitus, Josephus, Lucian... (I could go on).
Just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Remember, people believed that the world was flat until 1492.
You are going to disprove God; disprove away.
Let me ask you 1 thing: what benefits does atheism offer???
tonybonez 2 years ago
Then what source of information did you use to find out about these witnesses to Jesus' powers?
It was abad choice of words I used when I said "disprove," I know it is impossible. But disproving God is as impossible as disproving the existence of unicorns and the flying spaghetti monster. Yet we still think belief in them is silly.
But anyways, what I meant was that I would provide evidence against the existence of God, which I will provide in a moment.
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
The life of an athiest is free from the shackles of religon. We are free to do whatever we want (within reason - we still have to obey the laws of the countries we live in, though it is not that we have any desire to carry out evil acts such as murder or rape etc, I am athiest(ish) and I have no such desires). Basically people are more free, eg we can have sex whenever we want (homosexuals aswell) without the fear of hell... continuing
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
continued..
while the religious waste their time (in our opinion, as they are trying to communicate with a being that we do not believe to exist) praying every Sunday (im only using christians as an example here, other religions have different 'holy days') while we are out living our lives, furthering our careers etc. Now onto evidence against the existence of God...
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
I'm at a complete loss as to how you can come up with this nonsense. Maybe because I'm from the UK, but the way you think seems alien to me. AND you talk about "flawed logic".
We don't try to disprove god, it isn't possible to disprove something that doesn't exist.
Neither is it possible to prove he does exist.
BUT something that does exist has some kind of proof. IE something that is real, manifests in some way, hence it is detectable/measurable.
god I'm afraid, doesn't seem to do this, ever.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
As I stated earlier. And you ignored, as you have with almost every point in every post.
"Obviously one cannot say anything with 100% certainty. But I'd say it's in the 99.9 odd% category, along with the existence of a god. YOUR god, I'd say 100% COULDN'T exist though."
If one hasn't been brainwashed into that way of thinking, it's simply a question of what is likely, or probable.
And I'm afraid god is very very very very unlikely. And as time goes on, and the worlds populace gets
Cont.---
martiangrundy 2 years ago
martiangrundy:
...continued from earlier post
If you were 1 of 1000 people---who had 1000 other people holding guns to all of your heads and they were going to fire in 3 seconds (giving everybody time to duck if they chose to); and only 1 gun had a bullet in the chamber would you choose to duck. Odds are that your gun does not have a bullet.
BTW: why do you assume I was born Christian. Remember to assume makes an ass out of "U" and "ME"!!!
tonybonez 2 years ago
I didn't assume you were "born" a christian.
NO ONE is born anything, you may be born into a christian or muslim houshold, however, how does one call a chld who cannot even comprehend anything, any denomination of religion?
I'm sorry but your pathetic analogy only illustrated just how irrational you are, and how far you misunderstand what I was saying, it's really merely Pascals wager, dressed in modern attire.
Stop keep trying to prove the bible with the bible. It CANNOT work.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
---Cont.
progressively more educated, more and more people will naturally understand that.
And all this silly talk, (like satan and god) will be very largely assigned to the vualt of history, and myth, as have the one's that have fallen out of fashion, Thor, Dionysus, RA, etc, etc.
After all the only difference is you have been brought up to believe Yawah is the correct one. Had you been brought up elsewhere, or another time, you would believe something entirely different.
How arbitrary is that?
martiangrundy 2 years ago
martiangrundy:
So you admit that trying to disprove God is a fools mission, right! Tell that to imnoadvertiser: he tells me he is going to disprove God (see his comments below)
God is detectable if you understand the life of Jesus and how astronomical the odds are that humans not only were created, but that we survived this long.
Faith is not just simply a question of what is likely, or probable.
continued in next post........
tonybonez 2 years ago
The life of Jesus is taught in the bible, a book which has proven to be much less than reliable. You keep providing references from the bible, even though in a logical argument these cannot be used as we are debating the accuracy of the bible itself (how many times have i said this?). How are the odds that humans were created by an intelligent designer astronomical? do you have evidence? Or is it a flawed opinion you've heard from others?
imnoadvertiser1 2 years ago
NO NO NO NO NO!!
It seems, after all, (how depressing, I was sure you'de get it in the end, and not merely LEAP onto the fact I'd mentioned not proving god, seems I gave you far too much credit), that indeed you are incapable of comprehending what I was saying. I'll say it again, in case you've forgotten.
""Obviously one cannot say anything with 100% certainty. But I'd say it's in the 99.9 odd% category, along with the existence of a god. YOUR god, I'd say 100% COULDN'T exist though.""
Cont.---
martiangrundy 2 years ago
---Cont.
It seems my brain in a vat analogy, passed you by completely.
STRICTLY speaking, we can NEVER say anything is 100%, even that were here on earth.
In practical terms, absolutely we can, as I stated earlier.
Just HOW, is god detectable? Your talking completely at cross purposes, (after all Ive said), sorry but your reasoning is childish, and very rudimentary. Ive had far more grown up discussions with my 16 year old stepson. Sorry to insult you, but I dont know how else to say it.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
Well, I don't see that as in any way strange, it's a shame you do.
Obviously one cannot say anything with 100% certainty. But I'd say it's in the 99.9 odd% category, along with the existence of a god. YOUR god, I'd say 100% COULDN'T exist though.
So can I take it you don't believe that when we die (our bodies cease to function) we cease to exist.
luckily we are biodegradable, and so will rot down nicely back into the constituent elements that we temporarily borrowed from the universe. Naturally
martiangrundy 2 years ago
What the fool lacks in knowledge he will make up in certainty!!!
Basically you have no idea what happens when you die or how life started on Earth. You just have a little voice in your head that says "it could not be God, it had to have happened naturally all on its own.....go ahead deny God against all reason"
and that little voice is the Devil trying to mess with you.
Bottom line no human besides Jesus fully understands God or the universe.
tonybonez 2 years ago
In my unbiased opinion, I declare Toneybonez the winner, even though I have no idea who is right, "capn" seemed less civil, and was on the defensive, without any real convincing comments. next please...
1unbiased 2 years ago
"In my unbiased opinion"
Yes absolutely, we can see that.
indeed, let's hear WHY you think he won in a little more detail.
you say "even though I have no idea who is right, "capn" seemed less civil, and was on the defensive, without any real convincing comments"
You don't see this as pathetic, and completely self refuting? not even after two weeks?
What unbiased criteria did you use to judge this, in the light of having "no idea who is right".
"next please" HHMMmmmm!
Really, you think so?
martiangrundy 2 years ago
Cosidering the fact that "Capn" put this video out, I'd say without a doubt he seemed more desperate to convince people that there is no god, and typically resorts to insults and temper tantrums. Having no idea who is right has nothig to do with who I thought was more convincing..Capn loses, as do most atheist vs. theist debaters.
But in most young earth creationist vs. old earth evoluntionist debates, I mostly go with the latter, but even so, I don't know if evolution in a fact.
1unbiased 2 years ago
and Hmmmmmm, if I were to have an opinion as to who was right wouldn't THAT make me biased???
1unbiased 2 years ago
"and Hmmm, if I were to have an opinion as to who was right wouldn't THAT make me biased???"
Well, YES absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Can I then take it you've done a complete turn around. It wouldn't be the first time I've debated with a believer who likes to flip flop around, not knowing actually what they think. Why I wonder did you change your mind? You DO remember your earlier opinion?
"in my unbiased opinion, I declare Toneybonez the winner, even though I have no idea who is right".
martiangrundy 2 years ago
Hey grundy,
what does being RIGHT have to do with presenting their case better? Ever heard of O.J. Simpson???
But in all seriousness, don't you DARE put a label on me!!!
1unbiased 2 years ago
OH DEAR, have I upset you?
Remember what I said about emotional "knee jerk reactions"?
Not that I'm surprised, you don't strike me as the most rational of thinkers. I'm afraid you really don't make much sense.
O.J. Simpson, indeed.
And it's MY comments that were absurd? When one spins a 180, and completely contradicts one's self within a couple of posts, it comes across as a little flaky, to say the least.
I suggest you re read your posts, and try to come down on one side or the other.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
No, you don't upset me...you are just a clone of every other atheist out there. I WAS going to end my post last night with; Watch folks, the next thing you will observe is a pathetic attempt at insults...I REALLY WAS! LOL,
grundy, you have really gotten out of hand, this obsession with your invisible primordial soup god is really out of hand! But I guess you have plenty of time on your hands since the chicks won't go near ya! :D
So why don't you go STALK someone else who gives a rats ass!
1unbiased 2 years ago
Ha Ha Ha.
is that an attempt to try to upset me, as you sound to be.
You really do need to do better.
"this obsession with your invisible primordial soup god is really out of hand".
NO, don't be so silly, (although, of course I understand the challenge for you, believing as you do in fairy stories).
Tell you what, lets agree, and say abiogenisis, is wrong, and couldn't happen.
What is your alternative theory?
Surely you DO have one, don't you?
I'd be fascinated to hear it.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
WOW grundy, you sure are thick!
Once again...what part of "I don't know" don't you understand????????????
and why do you think I would want to have this discussion with someone as repulsive & arrogant as yourself?
Fact is no one knows how life began, and even though I have never stated what I believe in, you somehow ASSumed you did. How can anyone be irrational enough to say they "know" there is no "God", when even the scientific community is mixed on the idea. Pure arrogance!
1unbiased 2 years ago
and why do you care so much about what I think anyhow?????
1unbiased 2 years ago
YES of course I'M thick.
You keep telling yourself, if it makes you feel better. You'll be well practised in that art, I don't doubt.
"Fact is no one knows how life began".
NO, we don't. So in the absence of anything concrete well wish into existence a deity, to make us feel better. THERE THERE THERE!!! Pat's on head, a number of times.
There you go again, it's SO typical. Inventing what folk say to make you sound as if you know what your saying.
I never said that I know 100% there
Cont.---
martiangrundy 2 years ago
---Cont.
there is no god, (even though it's very highly improbable. Impossible if one want's to go with the self contradictory myth of the bible).
Arrogance??? HHMMMmmmm? Yes I suppose it's far more arrogant, than thinking the universe was created just for US. And by merely "praying" one can have the grand gaffer of the whole shebang actually listen, and even change the natural order, and events, in YOUR favour.
Absolutely, that isn't arrogant at all is it?
Do YOU have the first clue
Cont.---
martiangrundy 2 years ago
To grundy;
I may be wrong, but I don't recall reading anywhere in the christian bible that we are alone in the universe, but I cannot speak for the koran, or any others as of now.
1unbiased 2 years ago
"To grundy;
I may be wrong, but I don't recall reading anywhere in the christian bible that we are alone in the universe, but I cannot speak for the koran, or any others as of now."
So That's it is it? You do yet another climbdown, ramble a little more, and that's it?
What about all the BULLSHIT and LEIS, and INSULTS? (not that I'd expect an apology from you, it's usually only people of integrity).
How could they talk about the universe in an old book? They still imagined
Cont.---
martiangrundy 2 years ago
yes grundy...what ABOUT all your BULLSHIT & LIES, and "INULTS"???
I no longer know how to converse with you, you came on at first as arrogant, then you "insult" me first, you make unwarranted assumptions about what my point of view is, and you want me to dignify your dilusional comments by answering your inimaginative questions, as if you were even eqiupped mentally to understand them???
Sorry dude, you have some sort of irrational obsession with this topic,
1unbiased 2 years ago
and I don't think you are stable enough to manage a civil conversation with honesty and dignity....or integrity... :D
1unbiased 2 years ago
I'll leave it up to those who can be bothered, to judge.
You really are worth no more time.
I've had more coherence and rationality from my 3 y old niece.
If you reply again, you'll leave me no choice but to collect some of your choice imbecilities, and your contradictory statements together, in one (or four) glorious postings.
If nothing else it will illustrate that I wasn't completely "out of order" with the initial sarcasm.
"honesty and dignity.or integrity" I'm shocked you can spell 'em
martiangrundy 2 years ago
I'm stable enough?
Are you for real?
You really can't see where you've flip flopped, and contradicted yourself? You've answered umpteen questions, that weren't even asked, hardly any of the ones asked.
Quite apart from trying to "get my goat" by calling me grundy. You've actually admitted TWICE you were wrong, about a couple points.
I was sarcastic about a comment you made, YOU started the insults, and carried on with them.
Can you really go back through all these posts and NOT feel a chump?
martiangrundy 2 years ago
grundy...U are out of control man, I suggest you seek counseling, I have a very good friend that is a psychologist, and definitley sees a problem here..ok..
You asked me WHY I thought T-Bonez won...so I told you...end of story. YOU on the other hand have lied, put words & thoughts in my mouth, you are a desperate, deceitful, confused little man, with a chip on his shoulder, more than likely spawned on by something stemming from "religion" or something to do with "God" or a god.
1unbiased 2 years ago
I do not understand what points you are trying to make, or WHY you are so concerned about whether I believe in a supernatural existence, HOW DOES THIS AFFECT YOU???
Where you molested by a preist? Are you dissatisfied with your life? I really do think counseling could help you! Good luck grumpy..I mean grundy :D
1unbiased 2 years ago
"I have a very good friend that is a psychologist,"
YES, I'll just bet you do. Known him since childhood? I don't doubt.
"You asked me WHY I thought T-Bonez won...so I told you...end of story".
HHMMmmm. DID you indeed?
It seems you have a very short memory. I drew attention to the idiotic statement you made, you then proceeded to bury yourself, remember?
Didn't you start with, "In my unbiased opinion". And your name is again?
And I suppose you still image it wasn't an idiotic statement
Cont.---
martiangrundy 2 years ago
---Cont.
too, and that you're really NOT biased at all.
Just look at all your completely unbiased comments.
I really have lost interest now, although it was one hell of a chuckle, going back through and reading some of the gems you've posted. Though I can understand how youd enjoy it less. What an embarrassment. Can you even bear it?
I urge anyone with 5 mins to spare, to just flip back a couple of pages, and soak in some "unbiased opinion".
martiangrundy 2 years ago
Yes, of course you've "lost interest", or "have no time" grundy...that's the first thing a loser says...and yet continues to post lame brain comments.
Yes, my unbiased opinion is T-Bonez "won" this debate, because he was more convincing. But I don't know who is actually correct, and neither do you, and I am willing to listen to any intelligent opinions & information on this topic from any viewpoint. But this obviously leaves you out, as you have yet to say anything intelligent thus far!
1unbiased 2 years ago
..but you do make a good clown! :D and you have made me laugh very hard :D
Ohhh! I think I get it...you're just PLAYING this part for laughs!! LOLOL!! OK, thanks man!! :P
1unbiased 2 years ago
NO problem, I can soon gain fresh interest.
And it isn't as though you've left me with no material, EH? AND, you keep on supplying me with a fresh lot, every post.
You sound very het up again, BTW using my name really won't bother me in the slightest it merely points to your level. But you aren't very old are you?
Ha ha ha ha, there you go again.
"Yes, my unbiased opinion is T-Bonez "won" this debate, because he was more convincing. But I don't know who is actually correct, and neither
Cont.---
martiangrundy 2 years ago
---Cont.
do you".
Your UNBIASED opinion, (CHORTLE, SNIGGER, CHUCKLE), You just fail to get it, don't you. Every time you post this idiocy, you give someone new a chuckle, to brighten their day. You keep it up, the world needs to laugh more.
Your name itself merely adds an extra flavour of irony, especially after reading your posts. I at first thought it was sarcastic, or satirical, and was actually starting to smile, until I started to read your posts, and realised you REALLY think it is true.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
grundy...what is "het up" ?
Using your "NAME" doesn't bother you? Hmmmm...DUH??? Is using your NAME suppose to bother you? Hmmm, You're not dealing with a full deck grundy, but since this is the second time you've mentioned me using your NAME??? It can ONLY mean that it DOES bother you :D
But I really don't intend to do that...so I'll quit. How about Dumbo? or Bozo?? IDK, but there is still no trace of an intelligent discussion coming from you, so maybe you should consult your 3 yo. neice
1unbiased 2 years ago
to see if she can help you to understand. It's really very simple, unless you are afraid?
BTW; You are a classic, very predictable, very transparent, you are doing typical "loser" things, ie; "wondering" how old I am, constantly mentioning "3rd" party observations, creating false conclusions through false observations, Dumbo....Why do u feel the need to dance around the subject, and be so evasive with intelligent responses? Or are you still clowning me? Maybe "Bozo" is better? let me know! :D
1unbiased 2 years ago
You can call me whatever you please, and believe whatever you like too. (I'm sure you're well practised in this "art".
Intelligent discussion???
You really have GOT to be joking now. SURELY? NO maybe not.
So far ALL your intelligent discussion has been to childishly name call, and tell leis.
Your non existent credibility, and complete lack of even the most basic of understanding, illustrates perfectly to anyone reading these posts, just how old you are (intellectually speaking).
Keep it up.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
Just as I thought... nothing that pertains to the video.
Whenever I ask a question, you avoid answering.
Whenever I answer a question, you avoid aknowledging that.
I originally posted MY opinion of the video.
YOU came on with arrogance, and basically demanded to know why I thought this way.
I owe u no explanation, BUT I EXPLAINED!
I even put out an "olive branch" but u ignored it.
So I can only conclude that u aren't equipped for any reasonable communication, or u enjoy being a
1unbiased 2 years ago
such a juvenile acting prick.
Since YOU are the one with an agenda here, YOU need to sway my opinion, I on the other hand am UNBIASED, I came to listen to this video with an open mind, and I still believe people are still free speak there opinion without the "thought" Nazi's FORCING people what & how to think!!
So good day sir! For people reading these posts, YOU too have the right to believe however u want. DON'T let GRUNDY or anyone else try to make u think otherwise! In YOUR place G! :P
1unbiased 2 years ago
---Cont.
the "firmament", as a dome over the FLAT disk of the earth, with tiny dots of light. Unless of course there actually was a god, BUT there is no such knowledge contained therein, is there? Why not I wonder?
It's only very recently WE'VE started to understand the size. Have YOU looked? Do you have a handle on this universe we inhabit, and just how BIG and old it really is?
BUT, If were alone in the universe. The upshot would be YOUR god made the
Cont.---
martiangrundy 2 years ago
---Cont.
whole "kit and caboodle", ALL for US.
OR, there is other lifeforms in the universe. Did YOUR god make these also? Do you suppose they are "created in his image"? Why no mention of this in a "holy" book?
These questions, no matter which side one comes down on, cause problems in a theistic world-view.
A Naturalistic view, has no such problems. There are no old stories, or dogma to adhere to.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
---Cont.
just how big the universe is? You do? And you still imagine it's all for little old us?
And you still think your NOT deluded?
SNIGGER! CHORTLE! SNIGGER! GUFFAW! CHUCKLE!
BTW, You can insult me all day M8, it will not bother me in the least. I just wish you realised how much you were actually being laughed at here, imagining it could.
Go on, you keep "proving" just how thick I am. FAR easier than actually addressing a point, EH?
martiangrundy 2 years ago
WOW! my comments had more affect on you than I ever imagined they would!! LOL
you really haven't said much with these 3 comments, only to show you are obsessed by the idea that I MAY possibly believe in a lifeform superior to us reponsible for our exsistence.
Perhaps not necessarily in our "BIG" <---(lol) universe, but maybe even in dimensons apart from our big ol' uni. 2 questions;
How can you possibly arrive at all these assumptions about what I'm thinking & again, why do you care???
1unbiased 2 years ago
I wouldn't expect you to understand, how could you.
Obsessed? No not at all, why would you think that? I "discus" with folk like you all the time.
"Perhaps not necessarily in our "BIG" <---(lol) universe, but maybe even in dimensons apart from our big ol' uni."
Ha Ha Ha. you really are a dim pathetic sort of clown really aren't you, I really won't bother with that, I'll leave it up to everyone else to draw their own conclusions.
How about YOU answer a question, I don't think you have yet.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
You won't bother with what? Extra dimensons?
I could keep the insults rolling in, but I won't, even if you did start them.
I'm not really sure what questions you have asked, I just DON'T KNOW if there is a "God" or not, why would you expect me to dicsuss this with someone who is so vehemently against anyone that even remotely resembles a theist? You've asked me why I think T-Bone won, I told u, b/c he was more convincing to me, would u still be asking me why, if I had posted Cap'n "won"?
1unbiased 2 years ago
So your making a judgment on WHAT exactly?
Evidently not on the content, or what is said, Its sounds to me as though you're the one who is over emotionally involved, desperate to try to defend your irrational, outdated, invisible man in the sky, belief system.
I know. How about you try to actually rebutt the things in the video, and at least give the odd reason, as to WHY you think "he won", that would carry a little more weight than an emotional "knee jerk" reaction.
martiangrundy 2 years ago
If this comment wasn't so absurd, it'd be hilarious. What part of "I have no idea" didn't you understand?
Toneybonez just made more sense, and presented his side more convincingly, end of story.
1unbiased 2 years ago
He's an idiot. You should point him to one of DonExodus2's videos on abiogenesis and tell him that many of the components that make up life have been created in the lab.
WaxItYourself 2 years ago
I have no idea if there is, or isn't a god or gods who created the universe and all mankind, and there's no way that anyone could ever know until they die, which does us here on earth no good. My personal beliefs are that If there IS a god/gods, i'll find out when i die, if not it doesn't matter, if you showed me irrefutable evidence that there was a god/gods i'll believe, if you show me evidence that they're isn't i'll believe that theyre isnt, if you dont show me any evidence, i just wont kno
BayvilleGangsta 2 years ago
It's hard to take any debater seriously when they use that much text/IM shorthand. "OMFG" isn't exactly the language of intellectuals.
army103 2 years ago
Stupid to continue debate after disrespectful:
"Right....."'s
Just tell them to go kill themselves and go to heaven and block them.
Unknnnnn 2 years ago
It seems that tonybones had some very valid points and you kept spewing BS and saying next as if you had actually answered something. lol
Atheism is the belief that there is no God.
NOT, that there is no evidence of one. That would be agnostic.
The idea of a God existing or not can never be proven. That said, having a position on either side of the subject takes the exact same amount of faith.
Atheism is too religious to be involved in science.
NefariousPrior 2 years ago
Atheism can also mean that you don't believe in the god of the bible or any other god that wants to be known or who is actively involved in the affairs of humans. Does it take faith to not believe in Thor or Zeus? Why not? Because there is no reason to believe in them. What reason is there to believe in JC or god of the bible or Allah? Remove the "holy" books and what do you have? All of the desert dogmas rely heavily on the bible, not something I would want to have as a foundation.
christo930 2 years ago
Just because you do not believe that a god exists, does not mean that you beleive that he doesn't.
Both atheists and agnostics do not beleive that a god exists, but only atheists believe that a god does not exist.
It's simple logic that many fail to understand and I say it again.
Atheism is too religious to be involved in scientific disputes.
NefariousPrior 2 years ago
Agnostic means you can't know if there is a god. Atheists do not believe in a god, but not necessarily that there definitely is no god. If you don't believe in something for which there is no proof or evidence, that doesn't need faith. You can't prove there is no flying spaghetti monster, but what is the likelihood of it actually existing? We have science that shows us the bible is wrong about the creation of the world and creation of life. Loss of creation is total loss of credibility.
christo930 2 years ago
to clarify, the difference in atheism and agnosticism is in the following two statements:
Atheist:
"I beleive that god does not exist."
Agnostic:
"I don't beleive that a god exists."
Only agnotics have a lack of beleif as atheists hold something to be true that cannot be proven. That is, that god does not exist.
I hope that helps.
NefariousPrior 2 years ago
Agnostic: Can not be proven either way.
Atheist : I don't believe that a god exists
Your definitions are wrong, and the above definition is right. In any event, it takes no faith at all to not believe in god or to believe that the god of the bible (as described) does not exist.
christo930 2 years ago
It doesn't matter what you believe, christian, jew, atheist, or agnostic.
God cannot be proven nor dis-proven, by definition, so your definition of agnostic would encompass everyone, Christians and atheists alike.
So you don't have a definition of agnostic and your definition of atheism is actually the definition of agnosticism.
Atheism is: the assertion that deities do not exist. Claiming that they do not exist(which can't be proven) makes it a belief and therefor, religious.
NefariousPrior 2 years ago
You are wrong about this. Agnostic means that you state that it is not possible to know either way. I am an atheist and I don't believe in god (at least not the desert god), and I think the odds are pretty low for a god, but I can't assert that there is no god with any certainty.
Matt D. discusses this occasionally on The Atheist Experience. Try searching for it on youtube.
christo930 2 years ago
Using your definitions of the two, what is the difference between "it is not possible to know either way" and "I can't assert that there is no god with any certainty".
That sounds like pretty much the same damn thing to me. lol
NefariousPrior 2 years ago
you know I'm pretty god damn certain that agnosticism is someone who is not sure about whether god exists they think it could be but they can't be certain(the old joke what do you get if you cross a agnostic,a dyslexic and an insomniac-someone who stays up all night wondering if there is a dog)
An Athiest is just-they don't believe that god exists. Athiesm doesn't imply any other beliefs-its just no there is no God.
venakew 2 years ago
That is exactly my point. rofl
Being that no one can know that god exists for sure, then saying that there is no god makes it a belief.
Atheism is the "belief" that there is "no god", not that you can't prove it. You are dead on with your definition of agnosticism, but christo930 swears it and atheism have the same definition. idk why. lol
I'm repeating myself at this point. I think you get it.
NefariousPrior 2 years ago
I disagree not with agnostic/athiest nonsense but that you can't know for sure that god doesn't exist,as in I don't think he can logically exist and loads of other different reasons. I believe 100% that I know God doesn't exist.Of course I could still be wrong I don't know how but I could be, so is that not 100%?If so why even bother with the full 100%?
venakew 2 years ago
That was my entire point, people not knowing the difference in the two.
You, being that you 'believe' (not 'know'), that god doesn't exist makes you an atheist and therefor religious.
If you didn't 'believe' either way then you would be agnostic.
NefariousPrior 2 years ago
I thought I'd point out I'm not an athiest-I'm a Pantheist.
Yeah I agree that Athiesm is a belief,but not religious but I know what you mean.
venakew 2 years ago
I'm sorry, if you believe in something that cannot be proven you are religious.
That's all I was saying.
btw: Interesting concept this, "pantheism".
NefariousPrior 2 years ago
How so?
I meant that I religious isn't the right word for athiesm, yeah you can't empirically prove god so its a belief but I don't think religious describes this.
venakew 2 years ago
"I thought I'd point out I'm not an athiest-I'm a Pantheist."
Isn't pantheism just super-atheism, you just call nature god.
randomlylostperson 2 years ago
Yes there is 0 difference between the actual context of them, but since athiesm is just saying there is no god(s),then pantheism is taking that one step further.Most athiest are probably panthiests without knowing it.I'd also say that generally science is the way of understanding the world and panthiesm is the human side of that. religion provides something for people and discarding that as athiesm might suggest ,panthiesm embraces that.
venakew 2 years ago
Atheists FTW!!
ArrogantAtheist 2 years ago
If there really is a 'God', there would be no religion's.
MrBondye 2 years ago
I heard a funny story and I don't know if it's true. "Issac newton, having reached a stage of financial success, had a clocksmith create a scale model of the solar system, with complete rotational and orbits. Later a visiting Atheist friend comes to visit and inquires about the makre. Newton replies that there is no maker. the atheist is outraged at the insult to his intelligence for surely this has a maker. Newton then burns him on his doublestandard. no fair,HLMGTFUing
seankubin 2 years ago
"Newton then burns him on his doublestandard."
It's not a double standard at all. The assumption that all of reality is a creation and to compare the universe to a clanking-mechanical clock-like machine is quite questionable, since the universe is constantly expanding, which the model could not do.-Obvious human-creation.Indeed the solar system is changing as well.Like an explosion would do...and what then, would have created god? Double standards you say?
hellasweet4twizzle 2 years ago
This is absolutely silly. The real solar system isn't made out of processed iron or wood that has been cut to shape.
Does helium need to be "made by a maker"? We see it being made by the mega ton every single second in the sun. Chemical reactions and nuclear fusion take place without direction.
christo930 2 years ago
there is no god and only our worldly life exist we live and we die..some people live and others die replacing them.. and nothing destroys us except time.. stop believing in God!!!
hiawathabanias 2 years ago
I don't believe in god so score one for u.... Although it would take ALOT more persuasion to convince a God fanboy to actually see reason.
Science=EPIC WIN and PWNAGE!
hyperdude144 2 years ago 2
Holy shit that Tonybonz fellow is one of the biggest assholes I've ever seen
VitalSigns1 2 years ago 3
4:43 It was his mother, and she dipped him in the Styx to make him invulnerable.
PluralOfEverything 2 years ago
i think that all these people who argue about it on youtube, should organize a bush party go to it, drink and hang out with hot women.
Jcashrulez 2 years ago 4
Atheists shoudn't waste our time with theists. They just play semantic cheap tricks. They believe in god because they are afraid of dying. Technology will solve that and religions will not exist anymore other than in history books. Theists will try to stop this technologies. We, the atheist, should support these tecnology advances, like we have always done
Adlershof 2 years ago
I'm not sure technology cuold ever prevent death but I do think atheists should stop wasting time debating theists. I'm not a big fan of Dawkins but he came out with a great one-liner when invited to debate at some creationist diploma mill. He just said, 'That would look good on your CV, not on mine'. pwned
firthio2 2 years ago
Sing to the tune of "The Wheels on the Bus"
Debates with theists go round & round, round & round, round & round. Debates with theists go round & round, until you shoot yourself in face.
USMarineSgt 3 years ago 3
i like the math reason for believing in god, (just incase). Least it makes sense. The beauty with science, and atheism, is if you proove us wrong we'll happily follow you. Whereas you can demonstrate the bible is b.s (flood, ark), but they stick with it, literally blinded by faith
BrightonStudent 3 years ago
which is why there is not much debate, 'you cant use mans logic with god.' i think thats code for you cant use reason against religious people'.
i'll stick to math model, but im throwing my chips in with Zeus.
BrightonStudent 3 years ago
Screw Zeus! Kali all the way!!!
assatashakira 2 years ago
you could have gone into how DNA and RNA are made up of chains of amino acids. you could have stated that lipids form double walled vesicles under conditions that the early earth was prone to. maybe shown how single molecule monomers can link up into polymers, all by following the laws of physics....
but i think all of these points would have been lost on him.
(i personally refuse to argue with people who can't tell the difference between 'their' and 'there')
EricZombie 3 years ago
FACEPALM.
EricZombie 3 years ago
Sweet zombie Jeebus, what a fuckin' moron.
When he said that man's science cannot disprove god, I find myself wanting to shout at him, "So what the fuck WILL???"
I mean, whether there is a god or isn't, what evidence could possibly prove or disprove this god? And if the answer is "none," then on what basis should one assert that such a creature exists? Faith and faith alone? Because that's the very definition of gullible.
BionicDance 3 years ago
To find the most compelling arguments against one religion, ask a competing one's proponents opinion. In other words, to find what's wrong with Christianity, on simply has to ask a Muslim for instance.
The problem isn't only extra religious. Even amongst Christianity there is about 30 000 denominations. You'd think that the Holy Spirit would be more consistent than that in its revelations of the truth....
wynd2007 3 years ago 2
Guys, we seriously need to find a way to disprove god in a rhetorical sense, seeing as it's the kind of evidence they like. 1. Does god defeat himself in purpose or word? 2. ... Nevermind, that's the wrong route. But seriously, there must be some way, even if it ends up being an irrational argument. Irrational arguments are very effective, so even if they stroke a cord of immorality with you, do use them. They can be very productive when dealing with most people.
lordjavathe3rd 3 years ago
You want a irrational argument that terminates God?
You have to answer their Question:
"As nothing can't produce nothing,where does the big bang come from,what banged?"
Here my answer:
"God exploded."
Problem solved.We are here,God is gone.
gotohellfast 3 years ago 5
You made my day, I laughed so hard. Thanks man
lordjavathe3rd 3 years ago
You are welcome.
For more rational and irrational thoughts,visit my channel.
For utterly nonsense and exclusive irrational stuff,please visit venomfangx's channel.
gotohellfast