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From: Dockermark2
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  • We shouldn't make so many distinctions inside the church specially when cristianity is being attack from every side while we sit here fighting LANE # 4 which by the way is not cristianity is emerging to deceive many " Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, a divided house falls"

  • "We're not going to do any drive-bys" "...but no reason to run their car off the road." This guy is really...uh, swell. o.O

  • I honestly believe we are missing the big picture!! Let's (as followers of Christ) stop focusing on the tiny details and spread the word of Christ!! This isnt hard!! Stop listening to what others opinions may be and actually dig down in God's word for yourself.

  • Does this sermon promote people in the audience to love those that arent on the "same highway" as you...?

  • @ylbenmuir I say no.

  • Dude, i don't give a rip how spiritual and doctrinally sound you are as long as you wear blasphemous graphic t-shirts.

    You think it makes you hip and cool? I think it makes you threadbare and hackneyed.

  • Define irony - False teacher rebuking false teachers....

  • If you'd like to read some article on the Emergent Church and on Rob Bell and his book, Love Wins, visit: HELLS BELL DOT NET

  • I Agree with And Support The Emerging church, BUT i DO NOT AGREE With heretic Mark Driscoll! I LOVE Rob Bell Though!

  • @remusnigga How do you figure h'es a heretic?

  • I wish the volume could be louder on this video...

  • Excellent summary of this topic!!!

  • Jesuitic ecumenic garbage straight out of Vatican ll. The skull & crossbones at the beginning of the vid are not coincidental.

    REG6(DOT)COM

  • I don't think we need to make teams or lanes out of the divisions in the church. When you say these lanes are our friends but the last lane isn't: this creates a mentality of US verses THEM which is not helpful to the Church.

  • @fixensmiles By thy fruits you will be judged, Crimes committed in the name of the christian god, The Crusades, The Inquisition, The Witchhunt. The 30 year war, The Conquistadores. The plunder and destruction of the indigenous cultures in the Americas. The participation in the slave-trade. The open support of Apartheid. The pogroms and expulsions of jews in several christian countries. The publication of the worst racist, anti-semitic publication ever. used to justify the Holocaust by Nazism.

  • @tallliza The Bible was not used to justify what the Nazis did. They did however make their own Bible from pieces of the Old and New Testaments with many additions of their Nazi rhetoric and agenda. Such as making the Jews not have anything to do with the Old Testament Furthermore if the Nazis used any philosophy to justify their actions even if they used his philosophy wrongly, which they did, Friedrich Nietzsche is what your looking for and you can't blame the holocaust on one factor like that

  • @tbw980371 If you can read, I did not claim or even suggest, that this racist publication by Luther was the only propaganda tool of the Nazis. But if you read a few passages of that book, you can see how this CHRISTIAN publication was all they needed.. It seems even to be a fact that the protestant churches in Germany initially, had no objection to the elimination of the jews... Von Den Juden und Iren Lugen, Nietzsche, as far as i know, was of little use fot the nazi propaganda .

  • I love watching these guys who are so certain that they're on the front lines of what Christ is doing in the world, preaching this, preaching that, like they've "made it," they're "in," rubbing shoulders with the "big guns" lol. "I know this guy and that guy" Not the Jesus I see written about in the Bible... always seeking out and hanging out with those who society rejected and thought of lesser worth... You've got no idea lol

  • I love Mark, hes great. But you can be a Christian and be homosexual, I think.

    This is just a thought, but I know the Bible teaches us homosexuality is a sin, so it is.

    But

    I also know that Jesus has the grace and love for everyone that he is willing to accept ANYONE who gives their life to him. Just a thought..

  • @jjpwolf actually, to accept jesus is to turn away from sin... Romans 1:26-27, its sinning by having sexual immorality with people of the same gender.

  • @Kutenian good point aha. It doesnt apply to me anyway

  • @jjpwolf I see what your saying...consider Romans 12:2 “And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” with Christ anyone can turn from any sin

  • @jjpwolf - There are so many verses that suggest otherwise. Romans 1, Timothy 1:8-11, 1 Corinthians 6:8-10, Revelation 21:8, amongst many many others. To blatantly live in sin is to blatantly live apart from God. Are we not to turn to Jesus while turn our back on sin? Absolutely, and to suggest that the homosexuality and the Christian life can be walked together is unthinkable.

    That's why faith leads to salvation and salvation leads towards repentance and deliverance.

  • @earthlydescent Homosexuality is as common as other birthdefects. To condemn them is to condemn YOUR creator. Homosexuality is a much a sin as wearing glasses. I do not suggest that homosexuality cannot be the result of the environment somebody grows up in. But then, whose fault is it, that they grow up in such an environment ? It has been around since biblical times. I don`t recall that Jesus ever preached against homos.

  • @tallliza

    the word is God and the word clearly says its a sin and noboody living that lifestyle will make it to heaven,neither will someone who continually lies,steals or is drunk.

  • @tallliza

    the word is God and the word clearly says it many times,1 Corinthians 6:9-10 - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."

  • @ilikmetal Corinthians 6:9-10 Is not the word of god. It is the word of Paul( the first missionary of Christ) and his writings have no more value as the writings of your Sunday-preacher.

  • @tallliza It isn't a sin to be blind. And yes, jesus preached against homos. By stating Gen in Mark 10. Jesus suports the marrage between a man and a woman. Paul the apostle said to be directly instructed by Jesus Christ to take the message to the nations, Acts 9. and Paul confirms in Roms 3 that homos are a sin.

  • @pretoshohmoofc: What Paul said or wrote has the same validity as what your pastor preaches in his Sunday homily. He was no eyewitness. He was just the first missionary. His words are not gods` words. And Jesus never condemned homosexually openly and directly. YOUR interpretation is just that YOUR interpretation. Period.

  • @tallliza You sound like a person who doesn't know their Bible. So this will be easy.

    Paul saw Christ. Acts 9:3-6

    Paul had First hand Teaching from Christ. Gal 1:11-12;Acts 9:1-31;Acts 22:1-22; Acts 26:9-24.

    So it it YOUR interpretation is just that YOUR interpretation. Period.

  • @tallliza Infact I will even quote Galatians 1:11 KJV as one example for you.

    "Paul an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead).

    So i'm sorry, but you are VERY wrong. :-)

    End quote.

  • @jjpwolf In giving your life to Jesus; He will send His Holy Spirit and convict you of homosexuality, therefore transforming you from the inside out. If you truly give your life to Him, he will change you. He loves the sinner not the sin. Its the act he hates not the person. So yes, He will acept anyone who gives thier lives fully to Him, but we also have a choice to be obedient. He's given us a rule book, just like in a job. If we dont follw it, we'll get sacked (hell)Not worth taking the risk

  • @jandtmusicuk He's given us a rule book..... I would love to see that" rule book".. You are not referring to the bible are you ? If your drivers manual was written like the bible, you would never leave your driveway without an accident. the O.T. is an accumualtion of nonsense

  • can someone explain to me what a 'emergent church' is?

  • Billy Gramm says All road leads to heaven not only Jesus so how can you mentioned him???

  • "This is my team so this obviously the right one."

    - Driscoll

  • Why is this dude wearing a shirt of Jesus mixing on a turntable?

  • Male pastors only. Women are too stupid and unworthy, or what? Driscoll is wearing jeans, but he is more old-fashioned than some catholic priests here in Germany ;-)

  • @DasWaldkind1 Driscoll is a complimentarian, which means he believes in essential equality of the sexes, but thinks that just because we are essentially equal and have equal protection under the law, that doesn't mean that there isn't functional differences set up for the sexes in marriage and the church. I tend to agree with him because you have to twist a LOT of stuff around in the Bible to get something else out of it.

  • Yeah, you wouldn't want to question anything. Is there any doubt this is brainwashing?

  • Yeah, you wouldn't want to question anything.

  • @scottiedoeknows Do you know where I can find that shirt?

  • @canesfan21367 i think he said it's from urban outfitter's in one sermon.

  • But wearing a shirt with Jesus as a DJ is ok?

    Wow. :) [meaning it can be seen as blasphemy to many]

    See? If we start picking at everything we're obviously letting the enemy get to us.

    It's amazing how instead of getting together as God's people we're fighting each other with the word. 

  • again...i still don't understand how all truth is some how possessed only by Mark Driscoll.

  • This is why is so important to focus on Jesus and read the bible... Many put their focus on man.  I only Love Jesus... It is difficult to trust man...

  • @jesus7es7dios7 You cannot love God without loving His people. And all men are His people, His creation.

  • If it's people then the people decide what morality they can impose on society. It would be subjective after all based on whoever has power. Survival of the fittest i must say. In hitler's society they go along in terminating jews. In old soviet empire and Mao's regime they force you to work or be killed. So if it's people they can decide whatever they want on morality which is pretty dangerous

  • @roac7777 Immoral? So, what you are implying, is that science has improved societies morals and reverence for life? Hiroshima anyone?

    "enoy life with a sense of wonder"? Kind of hard when ,as an atheist, it is empty and hollow of any intrinsic meaning. Good luck.

  • @birdistheword7769 No not science but people. We are moral despite any god and religion

  • I would pay a million dollars to see Mark Driscoll debate Rob Bell. I'm not saying one would demolish the other or anything like that, but I think it would be really interesting.

  • I love Driscoll's sense of humour.

  • I want to get gay with Mark Driscoll's butthole.

  • I have come to the conclusion that believing in God, any god is a waste of time and a life. There is no scientific evidence that god exists and it is also immoral to wish to be a slave to a mass murdering, infant killing, homophobic, sexually repressive and oppressive dictator.

    So I have stopped worrying and enjoy life with a sense of wonder, as an atheist. Anyone care to comment.

  • @roac7777 How can it be immoral when without God there is no morality?

  • @bilsim We are moral despite god and religion not because of it. How do you think we Homo Sapiens survived for around 120,000 years at least without relgion. If we thought that murder, rape and theft was ok, there would not have been anyone left alive 2,000 years ago. Religion is a childish depraved ideology.

  • i am sympathetic to calvinism, but something seems a bit of with mark driscoll. I'm not sure what it is. His knowledge appears less than he presents it as being. Maybe i'm just saying this because of his shotty wardrobe, but then again i think there is more to it than this. The reason he is able to give the appearence that he is wise, i think is the rsult of pragmatic behaviour. He knows the sorts of behaviours which one wants to see in order to gain spiritual authority over them.

  • Christianity need changes in order to come back to thge well-JESUS, WORD OF GOD!!! What ever Mark or some other say, christianity need change!!!

    btw. why not home church??

  • I'm glad I found this video, I had assumed there was only one Mars Hill church in America and that somehow Rob Bell endorsed this man. Now I know that he doesn't, my opinion of Bell is back up to it's former levels.

  • Actually Driscol, Rob Bell didn't say that without the virgin birth, that everything is the same. He said that in ancient Hebrew times, that being "Born of a virgin" meant that the mother was impregnated on her first time having intercourse, and you can look it up easily, this is a true thing. He didn't say the Bible lied, maybe we don't know enough about the world Jesus lived in at the time, to interpret the right way. That was his claim. Don't lie. 

  • @MarkToTheSky

    I'm pretty sure in Velvet Elvis, Bell's primary goal in "questioning the virgin birth" (and speculating the meaning thereof) is to prompt Christians to question that--if Jesus was not born of a woman who never had sex--would that really affect Christians' faith. It's page 26, where he asks if certain theological beliefs are all that important or not. That's probably why Driscoll (and quite a few of the men he listed in the video) believe Bell calls the virgin birth insignificant.

  • @DefunktPistol

    Yeah, it's almost as though people like Driscoll are missing the point. I haven't read Velvet Elvis in awhile, but I listen to Bell speak on occasion and I've never gotten the impression that he necessarily rejects the idea that Jesus was born of a virgin along with everything else Driscoll mentioned as his reason for not sharing Bell's POV. Bell's point seems to just expound on compelling reasons for following Christ.

  • At this present time 2010. Driscoll is opposed and removed from the Emergemnt Church movement.

  • Devil is still working, before his chariot of lies he puts always the truth in the front.

    Sorry, have no good words for this missleaded emerging church.

    Hey Mark, try to read the bible than you won´t speek such things, Jesus loves you and died for your sins too, if you become a realy cristian you will know what i mean.

  • Be as conservative as the word of God and as liberal as the Grace of God

  • @passkubalon yep, which you can only do by the Spirit of God...

  • @passkubalon amen!

  • Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind daily in His Word. When churches try to be relevent to the culture it loses the truths it is to hold. I do not want my ears to be tickled. I want to eat the meat of the word. I want to be fead truth not a feel good message. Teach the Bible verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book. By doing this you will get the whole concil of His Word and not just a little hear and a little there.

  • @saved03 amem!!

  • . . . . and so the emergent heretics discard a doctrine that we show by our lives we disbelieve.

    Think about it. We claim to be loved by a supernatural being of infinite power, If we really believed that we would be full of joy.

    So, when emergent heretics look at us to justify their heresies they see us rightly, respond wrongly and throw out the wrong thing.

    Do we really think that God does not hold us somewhat accountable for encouraging them in their error by our very lives?

  • How to make the Church relevant?

    Have a love that people cannot fail to notice whereby they either convert or try to kill us, after all Jesus said "father make them one that the world may KNOW you have sent the Son".

    the rest is gimickry.

    The historical Church has signally failed to do this throughout its history.

    That is why we are a burbling irrelevancy, we have nothing to show unbelievers, only a doctrine we show by our lives that we do not believe

  • scribd (dot) com/nb812

  • @WaNPmedia there are two types of people, repentant and unrepentant, a active homosexual is saying either, God is wrong in his word so i will not obey, or, I dont care about how terrible sin is, im going to do it anyways. the bible is clear that that type of person is damned. If your homosexual and a christian then you will recognize your sin and repent and flee from it. Were all born fallen and we need to repent and follow after Christ.

  • I agree with NecrosVenator -True conversion starts with true repentance, not perfection. Driscoll wasn't elaborating here as to why he believes the Bible doesn't condone Homosexuality, he was trying to highlight that Church Leaders shouldn't be uncertain about their theology, as they are 'tending a flock'! The most extreme liberals sometimes appear to be deciding as they go what they think, which is confusing for all - the Bible is constant, doesn't change day by day or at the whim of a pastor.

  • I disagree with Pretoshohmoofc, I am a conservative christian but i do believe the church needs to reform itself, I am an X Catholic, and converted to Penticvostalism only on the 9th May 2010. So am new to a New church. My children went to mass and came away worse than they went ! since moving on to New Truth, my kids LOVE our new church . One must understand WE Christians need to move onwards and farward. God Bless Mark Driscoll.

  • @leighlancs I am not against reform. I too am a pentecostal. I am against taking the age old message of the gospel and changing it to suit a people that is unwilling to come under God's word. The original message was, "come as I am" has been replaced with, "...I'll come, but just as I am."

  • @WaNPmedia I'm not sure he was excluding them based on a type of sin (at least not in this video). Personally I'd say that it's not okay to be a, let's say, liar and a Christian, or a murderer and a Christian, etc. But when I say liar or murderer or whatever, I mean to say a person who is consistently doing those things without any kind of repentance or attempt to confess to God and pursue genuine change. Perhaps that's what Driscoll means to say??

  • im sorry but i happen to be a christian accepted jesus wen i was twelve and i just happen to be a homosexual id like to talk to him see what he says... beleve me id look at him straight in the eye they cant get me down never ever.......

  • The Emerging/Emergent/Seeker Friendly movement is NOT of God. IS NOT CHRISTIANITY. It's a feel good watered down happy warm goobly gob message. It isn't the GOSPEL at all. I went to a church like that and came out of it quickly when I realized what was going on. I also warned others about it before I left.

  • Why shouldn't we question Catholic based creedal doctrines??

  • @benadam74

    You're a few centuries behind the time old pal...ever heard of John Calvin?

  • Its called: DOGMATIC...

    the emergent church is against the DOGMATIC or ABSOLUTE word of God...

    They are truely LOST!!!

  • "DJ Jesus" on your shirt says it all. If that's the product of the "Emerging" church then God have mercy on you.

  • @waluum Maybe its a metaphor. God is his DJ, the one control of the music of his life. Having Jesus as a DJ or with a guitar is not blasphemous.

  • @PaperBard : The shirt digresses the image of Christ, relegating him to a worldly position rather than the Holy Lord and King that He is. It makes what is set apart into something that is casual, and that is a mistake.

  • @PaperBard..... That is quite wrong actually. Jesus is not our buddy, dj, homie, partner, guitarist in our band. HE IS HOLY HOLY HOLY. HE IS GOD ALMIGHTY. HE IS THE GREAT I AM. HE IS THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS and when we do stuff like that, we are borderline blaspheming. If you see this as cool, then you may want to question who Jesus is to you.

  • @KakkoiGuy1 HOW is it blasphemy? How can depitcting Jesus in any other way besides glowing in a campy holy aura be blasphemy? Wouldn't wether or not its disrespectful depend on the how the person wearing said shirt view Jesus? I mean if they feel its a message thay says God is in control of all things, not just churchy activities, then how is that wrong? Jesus doesn't just fit into the 'church' box.

  • @PaperBard It's blashpemy because you are taking a Holy God and debasing him. You are putting him on a level of mere men, on the level of a cosmic buddy and He is not that. There is no reverence in doing such things. Yes Reverence. That is something emergents and most people in Church have failed to remember to give. Church box? Who said that? I didn't. I just said don't blaspheme. Aura? Wow. If that isn't Hinduism, I don't know what is.

  • @PaperBard Jesus never had an AURA. I can tell you either go to one of these emergent churches or you just don't get into your Bible much. I say that with love because one of the things I noticed about emergents is that they embrace hinduism under the guise of Christianity. Aura, Centered Prayer, Center yourself, are all terms they use. They even see Yoga as beneficial in many of their churches.

  • @KakkoiGuy1 If you take out the spiritual mumbo jumbo then yoga is just breathing exercises and stretching, which is beneficial to the human body. And to be honest you can't tell anything about me from a youtube comment, so don't you dare to insinuate you know me. To be honest I would not wear a t-shirt with Jesus on it period, because I feel Christ should be visible in my life, not on a bumper sticker or a t-shirt. But I dont think its wrong in all cases.

  • @PaperBard Actually, the 'church' box is exactly where Jesus 'fits in.' Eph. 2:13-22.

  • @waluum "Dj Jesus" is just a symbol that Jesus is everywhere, you can worship in any form, you think thats part of the emerging church. Jesus would be in bars, gay or straight, Christians today condemn people generally rather than going into the dark places and reaching people that need it.

  • @Kutenian it is not that Christians condemn people but it is about what is written in Scripture and what not

  • @Kutenian Lol actually the shirt is Jesus 'turning tables' in a modern setting, serving as an ironic touch to the fact that he literally 'turned tables' in the temple in Mark 11 & Matthew 21. That's what the shirt means.

  • He's not saying "church planning." He's saying "church planting."

  • He talks about church planning alot!! what church planning did Peter do when he went to the temple to preach the truth about Jesus. did he plan his day or just lift up Jesus. Jesus told us if he be lifted up he would draw all men unto HIM. Jesus Must be lifted up not you or our churchs. Dont play church you are the church!!

  • and with his shirts of jesus doin some beat i truly think thats blaspheme i try to imagine jesus on the cross and a guy at the foot of his cross wearing that shirt seems to me to be a sin

  • how can he comes to mix culture with puritans thought and reformed theology we dont have to be relevant to the culture its really against the ideology of the refrormed church

  • why mixing the calvinist with non...? two different gods much...?

  • Hmmm, kinda overstates his case on the Bell book. Wonder if he overstates anything else?

  • He didn't overstate anything. He states a point in from the book. This is also tied into Doctrine not supposed to be messed with.

  • If you know Mark Driscoll, you would know he was being sarcastic when he said "this is my team so obviously its right".

  • i like when he says, "this is my team and so obviously this is the right one."

  • Leslie Wheatherhead was emergent before was cool: I believe passionately that Christianity is a way of life, not a theological system with which one must be in intellectual agreement. I feel that Christ would admit into discipleship anyone who sincerely desired to follow him, and allow that disciple to make his creed out of his experience; to listen, to consider, to pray, to follow, and ultimately to believe only those convictions about which the experience of fellowship made him sure.

  • If you believe in Emergent theology then you also agree that Buddah, Allah, Krishna, Isis, Horus, Set are all Jesus. Right? YOU LUCIFERIAN MISLED FOOL.

  • You really don't understand the emergent movement...

  • Experience of fellowship? Protestantism was founded on Sola Scriptura. I mean, if correct doctrine didnt matter, why did Paul bother writing all those letters?

  • There is not a problem with asking questions, per se. However, a believer is, by definition, one who believes: 1) the virgin birth, 2) man's sinfulness, 3) Christ's death for sin, 4) His Resurrection, and on and on. (I apologize for the caps, couldn't do italics) Those questions END when the unbeliever BECOMES a believer, BY FAITH. Believers are called by faith--the emergent church conceals that it does NOT have faith by asking questions it doesn't want answered.

  • i don't see a problem with asking questions...i guess i could see his concern in a pastor being so unsure in a lot of pretty important beliefs. but i don't agree with him saying things "should not be questioned"...if it's really true, it should stand up under questioning, right? i mean, i'd like to know why i believe what i believe.

  • See, you're right, but he's talking about being in a pastoral position, where you're accountable for teaching people. We should question things, yes, but in prayer to God. Not in the sense that Rob Bell does.

  • Are you still a 'sinner' as a 'Christian' or are you perfect and incapable of 'sinning'? If you cannot 'sin' then I agree.. there is no possible way to be a homosexual and a christian.

  • Go do some proper research before you say something like that. (and by proper research i mean not just what you want to hear)

  • Speaking philosophically, there is no possible way you or anyone could possibly state that there cannot be a God because of all the senseless evil that exists. How do you know evil is senseless? You are saying because your intellect cant think of a good reason for the existence of evil, than God cannot be. If there is a God who is big and powerful enough to be mad at, conversely there can also be a God who has reasons for allowing evil to continue that your finite mind cannot think of.

  • 1 Jn 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits. Verse 2 & 3: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. To say that the virgin birth is inconsequential is denying that Jesus was God in the flesh.

  • I don't think that you can be a "Liberal and be a Christian". The Dictionary definition of Liberal is

    lib·er·al

    adjective Definition:

    1. broad-minded: *tolerant* of different views and standards of behavior in others

    Gilbert K. Chesterton once said,

    "Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions."

  • I'm sorry, but I think you have it upside down. I'm totally Exoteric in thinking. Meaning, God has shown himself to us in an outward, historical way through revelation.

    That is why I'm a Conservative Christian. I take the Word of God for what it is. Liberal so called "christians" on the other hand love to redefine the Bible to fit into THEIR way of thinking. Making a church that Society will except is more important to you than being obedient to God's word.

  • Ironically I think you are the one creating a Church that is "popular". Christians today worship Ayn Rand and Rush Limbaugh who celebrate greed and aren't even Christians!

  • Yea Ayn Rand in fact was an Athiest. I dont know where Rush Limbaugh stands.

  • I agree.

  • God Bless!

  • @pretoshohmoofc Here here, that is so true.

  • Christians don't worship Ayn Rand and Rush Limbaugh. Agreeing with one's political veiws does not equate worshipping something. Would you say that you worship Pres Obama?

  • @pretoshohmoofc solid.

  • @pretoshohmoofc  hahaha preach it! :D

  • @pretoshohmoofc Tolerance does not equal acceptance.

  • @PaperBard To tolerate something means to put up with something. To allow it to happen. Which then DOES mean to accept it.

  • @pretoshohmoofc Jesus teach about making followers to be His liberated from being enslaved by sin, yet ask those born again to enslave by Him. It means liberated but confined. Yes. you can't be a "Liberal and be a Christian." So, you have to be a Christian or not, hot or cold, yes or no...all in between is.....?

  • @pretoshohmoofc

    What is the definition of Christian...you are trying to make your point with an assumption of what Christianity is...research, then comment.

  • @EugeneVanPotch Since the answer to me is obvious, i'm not sure what your point is. Can you give me an example of what you believe a Christian is. Since you claim that there are more than one kind.

  • @pretoshohmoofc You can be liberal and Christian. In fact liberl vs conservative are just labels we give to ourselves to define ourselves within our society. They are people who see themselves as liberal and are still very christian.

    This is besides the point though people are people no matter what we all are connected so it does not matter if we are different.

    I am a moderate liberal by my definition.

  • @InspiredMuse74 Ok, what would make you as a liberal Christian any different from the Conservative Christian? Can you please give me some examples?

  • @pretoshohmoofc I have actually been to a liberal church. They had a male and a female pastor and accepted people of orientations. This was considered a liberal Christian Church. If I had to give a label to the church I used to a member of I would it was conservative. I have a few gay friends and I see nothing wrong with their lifestyle. I don't see the point of judging.

  • @InspiredMuse74 I have a few gay friends and I see nothing wrong with their lifestyle.

    Rom 1:26

    "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the matural function for that which is unnatural, ...men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own person the DUE PENALTY OF THER ERROR.

    Now..Who should I believe? You, or the apostle Paul?

  • I am not sure Mark Driscoll has understood what housechurch is about. It´s not about style. It´s values.

  • @areka1 you know, my Dad is a pastor and he is a house-church person (btw i go to another church). I became a christian last year and im still trying to understand alot about the different "lanes" as MD calls them. so what kind of values do housechurch evangelicals believe that compels them to to church like that?

  • Wow what a fast talking deceiver.

  • This is a really helpful talk

  • No, he criticizes certain liberal teachers for calling into question Christian (not specifically and exclusively reformed) doctrine. Neither prophesy nor tongues call into question his own doctrine- a doctrine which is consistent with the early Christian church and most of the reformed movement.

  • Martin Luther and John Calvin are not from the same movement...

  • No, but they both count as "Reformed" theology and that's all he's saying. There's a certain collection of theological principles he's marking by citing these guys and these are common to both Luther and Calvin. Strictly speaking Jonathan Edwards is not part of either of these guys' "movements" (he was an American after all), but he, like, they counts as "Reformed" and, thus, as a ancestor of the "Emergent Reformers" Driscoll is describing.

  • Actually, that is incorrect. Martin Luther is not a "Reformed" thinker. He was part of the Protestant Reformation, which is not the Reformed movement. Reformed theology refers to the ideological descendents of John Calvin of which Jonathan Edwards and Karl Barth (whom Driscoll didn't mention, probably because Barth would be disgusted at most of what Driscoll says about how God "hates" humanity) are a part.

  • "disgusted at most of what Driscoll says about how God "hates" humanity"

    That is completely inaccurate. Mark has not said God hates humanity.

  • God looks down and says 'I hate you, you are my enemy, and I will crush you,' and we say that is deserved, right and just, and then God says 'Because of Jesus I will love you and forgive you.' This is a miracle." - Mark Driscoll. (Driscoll, Mark: Jesus Took Our Wrath (Propitiation), Sermon preached November 6, 2005 at Mars Hill Church.)

    This terrible theology not only claims God hates humanity but it separates the work of Christ as being founded in God's love.

  • So...God can't hate?

  • Not both protestant?

  • Protestantism does not equal "Reformed." John Calvin is the father of Reformed theology and he borrows from Martin Luther, especially justification by faith. But, there were some substantial differences between them.

  • Right, and I understand what you're saying, but I think it's what they had in common that Mark is saying he also has in common with them: belief in the authority of scripture, salvation through faith in Jesus alone, etc.

  • Christ's presence in the Lord's Supper, Church government, Election, ect

  • Yes they are. They are both considered "Reformers."

  • Uldrich Zwingli and Balthasar Hubmaier were also Reformers but we don't call them "Reformed" theologians. Reformed theology does not equal Reformation. Luther and Calvin were similar and Calvin largely drew from Luther, but they are not the same.

  • Very careful listening to Mark Driscoll. I have read the books he speaks of, and he tends to take things out of context, and leave out important information. Seems like a nice guy, but just take it with a grain of salt and think for yourself.

  • "he tends to take things out of context, and leave out of important information." like what? i don't agree... or disagree... i'm just curous

  • QuisSeperabit60: You say that being a Christian is about following the Bible, but if I'm not mistaken wasn't the Bible compiled, by committee, well after the life of Christ?

  • How can this man say he likes Spurgeon? That's so ironic. Seriously. Read some of C.H.S. and it is rather comical.

  • yo i def LOVE mark.alot ..hes so dead on....i just think the fact that he said its not ok tbe homo and christian bothers me a little and its not only bc i struggle with it, its just the fact that hes implying that being gay is unforgivable and everything else is..being gay is not a choice..i believe that god put me here to help people deal with it and stop killing themselves because of it..i just think that can really work in the world in ways that might be really crazy.

  • Hi there. Mark is awesome. He's speaks the TRUTH. He preaches Biblical truth. The Bible is clear about homosexuality. I used to be a drug addict, and there are many things that I have struggled with. I've given it all up. I know its wrong and Christ gives me the strength to overcome those impulses. I just want to challenge you to keep reading the Word. Know the truth and the truth will set you free. love ya brother.

    your sister in Christ

  • I think that what he means is that its not okay to sin........you and me are not better than anyone...but our sin if we dont confess and are not changed we are actually comforming to our sinful nature which in itself will destroy our whole being...I believe people need to be approached with sincerity and with a sense mercy for their struggles....not pointing the finger but giving direction....in order to realize only God can reverse our sinful destiny..

  • I'm a fan of many emergent church ideas... so long as core, foundational evangelical beliefs are not discarded in the name of relevancy.