"After adjusting for inflation, CEO pay in 2009 more than doubled the CEO pay average for the decade of the 1990s, more than quadrupled the CEO pay average for the 1980s, and ran approximately eight times the CEO average for all the decades of the mid-20th century," IPS writes.
If I want to hire someone on contract for 2 years for 500 million dollars, but after 6 months they are doing a horrible job and I want to fire them, would it not cost less to have a severance package in the original contract for some percentage of the original contract, rather than either letting him continue to do a horrible job or going through expensive legal remedies?
If it wasn't for regulation, none of this would have happened, the government regulated the market by taking on the risk for lenders and making it possible for them to give money to people that they knew could not afford it. What are you not seeing? If it wasn't for the programs that the government has in place which protect businesses from having to absorb the risk of loans themselves, thousands of loans would never have been made and they would be FORCED to operate more responsibly.
EXACTLY!! The government is responsible for allowing corperations to put us into this mess. Do you honestly trust them enough to keep us from going from bad to worse?
Degregulation wasn't the problem though, it was regulation that allowed this mess to happen... Regulation that the government setup through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac...
Degregulation would force them to take the risk on their own instead of passing it on to tax payers...
I guess you're just not seeing it man, I'm trying to tell you that the government is the one responsible for setting up a system that allowed these corperations to get away with this and if the system was setup so they they were held resonsible for their own actions and practices them we wouldn't have this problem. But once regulation is established the risk will no longer fall on the enterprise, but rather the consumer, which is exactly what happened.
The problem is that Deregulation caused the problem, not regulation.
The companies were allowed to do what they did because there weren't regulations in place to stop them.
What YOU want to do is throw away the entire law book because there wasn't a law against murder and people died as a result. Make murder against the law and that solves the problem.
You have no idea what I'm saying man, I'm not even going to try to explain it anymore because I've said the same thing three times and you still refuse to even entertain it. The government can not make a regulation for big business that they can't find a way to get around, just like the government makes laws for murder and people still get away with it, all we can to is make them responsible for their own actions, regulation doesn't do that. I'm a business administration major, I know.
Alright, cool, I can definitely agree with that, deregulation does open doors for corperations to take advantage of consumers. It's just that more often than not, regulation seeks to empower consumers rather than protect them. By doing this, government has to take on the risk that business otherwise would not, (i.e. Fannie Mae).
I can agree on protection regulation. Even anti-trust regulation is designed around protecting business, but in protecting business rights, consumers are protected.
@livinlow15 That is still not even the real piont in the discussion about CEO pay. It comes down to this basic piont. What a business pays it's employees is nobody business or concern. Not the gov or anybody else's. I don't understand why people get all torqued up about this. How does it hurt YOU (figurative you) if somebody else makes x dollars ??
I don't get it, why do we freakin care?? It's not our money? If a corporation want's to blow off money like that on their top execs then go ahead. It doesn't affect me...
When a corporation fucks up, it DOES affect you dumbass.
All corporations exist in a circle of profit. When the right companies do bad, EVERYBODY does bad. That's why our economy is quickly becoming shit now.
Our economy went 'bad' when legislation was pushed through that REQUIRED banks to take on loans which would otherwise be deemed too risky, those loans which were of course defaulted were then sold to our government, once the housing market went down (which was the backing for the otherwise sub-prime loans) the government lost trillions and we footed the bill to save the corperations that our government virtually required to put us in the situation in the first place. Why are we pissed at them?
@livinlow15 you kicked his ass and he comes back with it was deregulation. Ok sc0 suck boy. What deregulatation. Can you tell us. Cause livinow15 knows the deal. The CRA forced banks to loan to unqualified people. The banks then sold those loans to Fannie and Freddie (gov institutions) that backed with full fail and security of the US gov and sold to hedge funds, whos said we got gov backed securities and they sold to hedge funds. So who is the bad guy ?? The fed gov dumb ass.
Don't get me wrong, I'm ticked, but seriously, let's be ticked off at the right people. If you are ultimately responsible for bringing a multibillion dollar revenue into a corperation, shouldn't you be entitled to a cut of that? Now if the government steps in and tells you not only how to run your business but continues to tell you that you're making too much money, how far do you think that it's going to go before they start putting a cap on how much you and I can make and taxing us like crazy?
"If you are ultimately responsible for bringing a multibillion dollar revenue into a corperation"
How about the people that were ultimately responsible for the corporation nearly going bankrupt and needing a bailout? WHY do they get golden parachutes?
What if they are fired? WHY should they get a huge bonus?
Again, you fail to see my point. In essense the government strong armed corperations into bankruptcy through regulation. Forget about if it's fair to pay these people what they make or whatever, the fact of the matter is that if the government didn't have a system in place which allowed them to practice business irresponsibly. How can you say that regulation and organizations like Fannie mae and Freddie mac are a good thing? If they didn't exsist this never would have happened...
@sc0pl355 What do you mean by "allowerd them" ?? So should gov allow us to invest ? Or allow us to ride a motorcycle with out a helmet ? Or allow us to eat too much fat, or alchohol. What the f do you mean by allowed ? Thinks about what you are saying.
@DANJULLMANN44 If there is no law against driving a motorcycle without a helmet, then the government allowed you to do that. There's no law against eating too much fat, so we are allowed to do so.
@DANJULLMANN44 If there is no law against driving a motorcycle without a helmet, then the government allowed you to do that. There's no law against eating too much fat, so we are allowed to do so.
It depends, there's no real black and white answer to that, how much of the capital was reinvested, what is the shareholders equity (up or down from previous period)? How much do they have in accounts recieveable? Long-term/short-term debt and investments? Inventories, bonds/stock issued? I know it sounds trivial but any company can bring in a higher revenue but rake in a lower profit and all of those accounts that I just mentioned play a part in that.
To philsev and all others who think this kind of obsene compensation is OK. Most CEO's become who they are on the blood and sweat of others; they deligate everything. All these hard decisions anyone with an IQ over 120 could make, which is above average by the way. But why should someone with an average to below average IQ suffer their entire life (for not being born with a high IQ) just so a few can live an obsene lifestyle? Study history and you'll see where this leads.. Revolution/Socialism..
your right, most societies end because of financial greed and the population revolting. look at the greeks the romans. they were the 2 biggest civ's ever and they fell fast. I sure hope this happens in america soon, i cant fking take this anymore. its like a bad mmo with a bunch of gold farmers and sellers. ruining the fun for everyone else so they can have far more than they will ever need. Fuck capitolism. Read communist manifesto.
Has anyone ever heard of human capital? Yes I agree that there is abuse in this system. The problem is that the general public does not understand what it actually takes to become a CEO. It takes years of training through education and work experience just like it would for any field (Michael Jordan to basketball or even Jimi Hendrix to music).
To compare a CEO and their pay or compensation package to some guy who works at Walmart is simply ludicrous.
>The problem is that the general public does not understand what it actually takes to become a CEO.
Steve Jobs gets paid $1 a year as his salary. He runs a highly profitable company in this recession.
> It takes years of training through education and work experience just like it would for any field
Bullshit. Both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are college dropouts. BOTH went from working in garages to being CEO's of their own companies in less than two years.
Why is this anyone's business? Those CEOs are able to get great compensation pacakages. I suppose that aside from the obvious reason, envy, I guess the other reason why people consider CEO pay a crisis is the deep down belief that businessmen do really deserve that much money. Just remeber that pay is based on what someone is willing to actually part with to garner your services.
Look, I have no problem paying someone for doing a good job. But these guys are being paid outrageous amounts of money even though they cant cut the mustard.
Tax the living hell out of this pay-level, so it can't keep happening. Let's say, 90% tax rate for income over, say 5 million/annually (gross), or something along these lines, like when income tax was first started.
I had a lousy call centre job in 2004, only lasted 3 months. However, because I did not hand in my notice and just left (bad i know), their payroll still thought I was there so I got about 6 weeks free pay AFTER I'd left. They finally worked out that i was no longer there and sent off a letter officially firing me but didnt ask for the 6 weeks pay back! So that was about €1400.
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cinthiacheung 1 year ago
"After adjusting for inflation, CEO pay in 2009 more than doubled the CEO pay average for the decade of the 1990s, more than quadrupled the CEO pay average for the 1980s, and ran approximately eight times the CEO average for all the decades of the mid-20th century," IPS writes.
hdrmax 1 year ago
@hdrmax So what is your piont ?? What business is it of yours or the gov what a CEO makes ?
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
If I want to hire someone on contract for 2 years for 500 million dollars, but after 6 months they are doing a horrible job and I want to fire them, would it not cost less to have a severance package in the original contract for some percentage of the original contract, rather than either letting him continue to do a horrible job or going through expensive legal remedies?
eiffuy 1 year ago
If it wasn't for regulation, none of this would have happened, the government regulated the market by taking on the risk for lenders and making it possible for them to give money to people that they knew could not afford it. What are you not seeing? If it wasn't for the programs that the government has in place which protect businesses from having to absorb the risk of loans themselves, thousands of loans would never have been made and they would be FORCED to operate more responsibly.
livinlow15 2 years ago
The government didn't strong arm anyone. they opened the gates and told the companies to do whatever they feel is best.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
EXACTLY!! The government is responsible for allowing corperations to put us into this mess. Do you honestly trust them enough to keep us from going from bad to worse?
livinlow15 2 years ago
If Deregulation caused the problem, how will more deregulation fix it?
That's like trying to cure herpes by giving the patient AIDS
sc0pl355 2 years ago
Degregulation wasn't the problem though, it was regulation that allowed this mess to happen... Regulation that the government setup through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac...
Degregulation would force them to take the risk on their own instead of passing it on to tax payers...
livinlow15 2 years ago
dude. deregulation is the problem.
Those companies took risks and did unscrupulous things in the stock market. When the market crashed, it had a ripple effect and crippled the economy.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
I guess you're just not seeing it man, I'm trying to tell you that the government is the one responsible for setting up a system that allowed these corperations to get away with this and if the system was setup so they they were held resonsible for their own actions and practices them we wouldn't have this problem. But once regulation is established the risk will no longer fall on the enterprise, but rather the consumer, which is exactly what happened.
livinlow15 2 years ago
The problem is that Deregulation caused the problem, not regulation.
The companies were allowed to do what they did because there weren't regulations in place to stop them.
What YOU want to do is throw away the entire law book because there wasn't a law against murder and people died as a result. Make murder against the law and that solves the problem.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
You have no idea what I'm saying man, I'm not even going to try to explain it anymore because I've said the same thing three times and you still refuse to even entertain it. The government can not make a regulation for big business that they can't find a way to get around, just like the government makes laws for murder and people still get away with it, all we can to is make them responsible for their own actions, regulation doesn't do that. I'm a business administration major, I know.
livinlow15 2 years ago
Look, all I'm saying is make it difficult to rip us off. Throwing away all regulation makes it easier to rip us off.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
Alright, cool, I can definitely agree with that, deregulation does open doors for corperations to take advantage of consumers. It's just that more often than not, regulation seeks to empower consumers rather than protect them. By doing this, government has to take on the risk that business otherwise would not, (i.e. Fannie Mae).
I can agree on protection regulation. Even anti-trust regulation is designed around protecting business, but in protecting business rights, consumers are protected.
livinlow15 2 years ago
@livinlow15 That is still not even the real piont in the discussion about CEO pay. It comes down to this basic piont. What a business pays it's employees is nobody business or concern. Not the gov or anybody else's. I don't understand why people get all torqued up about this. How does it hurt YOU (figurative you) if somebody else makes x dollars ??
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 Corporations did what they did??? What is this did what the did ? What did they do ??
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
I don't get it, why do we freakin care?? It's not our money? If a corporation want's to blow off money like that on their top execs then go ahead. It doesn't affect me...
livinlow15 2 years ago
They are getting rewarded for fucking up. That is bad for EVERYBODY.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
That kind of thinking is exactly what keeps people like you from making that kind of money...
livinlow15 2 years ago
1) they fucked up. That much is CLEAR.
2) They got BONUSES?
When normal people fuck up on the job, they get reprimanded or even FIRED
sc0pl355 2 years ago
@sc0pl355 Who si they ? And do you think YOU to say what they make !!???
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
When a corporation fucks up, it DOES affect you dumbass.
All corporations exist in a circle of profit. When the right companies do bad, EVERYBODY does bad. That's why our economy is quickly becoming shit now.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
I feel sorry for you...
livinlow15 2 years ago
Feel sorry for yourself bub.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
Our economy went 'bad' when legislation was pushed through that REQUIRED banks to take on loans which would otherwise be deemed too risky, those loans which were of course defaulted were then sold to our government, once the housing market went down (which was the backing for the otherwise sub-prime loans) the government lost trillions and we footed the bill to save the corperations that our government virtually required to put us in the situation in the first place. Why are we pissed at them?
livinlow15 2 years ago
the crash was due to deregulation and opportunist taking advantage of said deregulation via short selling and other unscrupulous behavior.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
@sc0pl355 What the fuck ????
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
@livinlow15 you kicked his ass and he comes back with it was deregulation. Ok sc0 suck boy. What deregulatation. Can you tell us. Cause livinow15 knows the deal. The CRA forced banks to loan to unqualified people. The banks then sold those loans to Fannie and Freddie (gov institutions) that backed with full fail and security of the US gov and sold to hedge funds, whos said we got gov backed securities and they sold to hedge funds. So who is the bad guy ?? The fed gov dumb ass.
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
Don't get me wrong, I'm ticked, but seriously, let's be ticked off at the right people. If you are ultimately responsible for bringing a multibillion dollar revenue into a corperation, shouldn't you be entitled to a cut of that? Now if the government steps in and tells you not only how to run your business but continues to tell you that you're making too much money, how far do you think that it's going to go before they start putting a cap on how much you and I can make and taxing us like crazy?
livinlow15 2 years ago
"If you are ultimately responsible for bringing a multibillion dollar revenue into a corperation"
How about the people that were ultimately responsible for the corporation nearly going bankrupt and needing a bailout? WHY do they get golden parachutes?
What if they are fired? WHY should they get a huge bonus?
Bull Shit
sc0pl355 2 years ago
Again, you fail to see my point. In essense the government strong armed corperations into bankruptcy through regulation. Forget about if it's fair to pay these people what they make or whatever, the fact of the matter is that if the government didn't have a system in place which allowed them to practice business irresponsibly. How can you say that regulation and organizations like Fannie mae and Freddie mac are a good thing? If they didn't exsist this never would have happened...
livinlow15 2 years ago
The 'system' that was in place that allowed them to act irresponsibly was DEREGULATION. There were no regulations to stop them from going hog wild.
Also, get out of my face with your strawman attacks.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
@sc0pl355 What do you mean by "allowerd them" ?? So should gov allow us to invest ? Or allow us to ride a motorcycle with out a helmet ? Or allow us to eat too much fat, or alchohol. What the f do you mean by allowed ? Thinks about what you are saying.
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
@DANJULLMANN44 If there is no law against driving a motorcycle without a helmet, then the government allowed you to do that. There's no law against eating too much fat, so we are allowed to do so.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 Wow thansks for "ALLOWING ME"
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
@DANJULLMANN44 You're welcome.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 And I make allowances for you to be a dumb ass. You are welcome too.
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
@DANJULLMANN44 Too bad that I'm not being a dumb ass.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
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@DANJULLMANN44 If there is no law against driving a motorcycle without a helmet, then the government allowed you to do that. There's no law against eating too much fat, so we are allowed to do so.
sc0pl355 1 year ago
Your on the right track but the keyword isn't revenue, its profit.
If your company brings in 6.2 billion dollars but shows a net loss of 1.4 billion for example, are you really entitled to a bonus and outrageous pay?
spyder357 2 years ago
It depends, there's no real black and white answer to that, how much of the capital was reinvested, what is the shareholders equity (up or down from previous period)? How much do they have in accounts recieveable? Long-term/short-term debt and investments? Inventories, bonds/stock issued? I know it sounds trivial but any company can bring in a higher revenue but rake in a lower profit and all of those accounts that I just mentioned play a part in that.
It's just not that simple.
livinlow15 2 years ago
@spyder357 That is up to board of directors and shareholders. Not you or the gov.
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
@sc0pl355 Yea dude so let's pass a lwas that companies aren't allowed to do bad !!
DANJULLMANN44 1 year ago
What they got fried and got 200 million dollars why the fuck am i in collage to learn how to do an good job then?
theabomation 2 years ago
120 IQ+ or not, you probably might not even have 1 IQ of common sense.
Gonji 3 years ago
To philsev and all others who think this kind of obsene compensation is OK. Most CEO's become who they are on the blood and sweat of others; they deligate everything. All these hard decisions anyone with an IQ over 120 could make, which is above average by the way. But why should someone with an average to below average IQ suffer their entire life (for not being born with a high IQ) just so a few can live an obsene lifestyle? Study history and you'll see where this leads.. Revolution/Socialism..
munggone 4 years ago
your right, most societies end because of financial greed and the population revolting. look at the greeks the romans. they were the 2 biggest civ's ever and they fell fast. I sure hope this happens in america soon, i cant fking take this anymore. its like a bad mmo with a bunch of gold farmers and sellers. ruining the fun for everyone else so they can have far more than they will ever need. Fuck capitolism. Read communist manifesto.
rikestard 3 years ago
Has anyone ever heard of human capital? Yes I agree that there is abuse in this system. The problem is that the general public does not understand what it actually takes to become a CEO. It takes years of training through education and work experience just like it would for any field (Michael Jordan to basketball or even Jimi Hendrix to music).
To compare a CEO and their pay or compensation package to some guy who works at Walmart is simply ludicrous.
philsev 4 years ago
>The problem is that the general public does not understand what it actually takes to become a CEO.
Steve Jobs gets paid $1 a year as his salary. He runs a highly profitable company in this recession.
> It takes years of training through education and work experience just like it would for any field
Bullshit. Both Steve Jobs and Bill Gates are college dropouts. BOTH went from working in garages to being CEO's of their own companies in less than two years.
sc0pl355 2 years ago
Why is this anyone's business? Those CEOs are able to get great compensation pacakages. I suppose that aside from the obvious reason, envy, I guess the other reason why people consider CEO pay a crisis is the deep down belief that businessmen do really deserve that much money. Just remeber that pay is based on what someone is willing to actually part with to garner your services.
Rexanglorum 4 years ago
Still think this is no one's business?
jophus82 3 years ago
Look, I have no problem paying someone for doing a good job. But these guys are being paid outrageous amounts of money even though they cant cut the mustard.
clarkent69 3 years ago
Tax the living hell out of this pay-level, so it can't keep happening. Let's say, 90% tax rate for income over, say 5 million/annually (gross), or something along these lines, like when income tax was first started.
mdstasik 4 years ago
I had a lousy call centre job in 2004, only lasted 3 months. However, because I did not hand in my notice and just left (bad i know), their payroll still thought I was there so I got about 6 weeks free pay AFTER I'd left. They finally worked out that i was no longer there and sent off a letter officially firing me but didnt ask for the 6 weeks pay back! So that was about €1400.
ivangrozny27 4 years ago
Jeez... all that and I'm struggling to pay for my impacted wisdom teeth to come out. Makes me sick.
DblOSmith 4 years ago