Where are the naked girls? I mean how can you have a bunch of stuff seeming to float in an empty room and expect people to get all excited about anything, without naked girls?
@950horsepower Yes, and the associated photons would have a small propulsive effect IF this idiot did not put everything into a closed box. That is like sealing a rocket into a steel drum and expecting the drum to take off.
@Brotramel So? it still defies gravity, it is due to losing some electrons, just as i predicted hole doping would aid in superconductivity i also predicted thunder was not from air expansion, thunder will one day be known as the implosion of electrons being added back to positively charged water molecules. Thus the rain falls back down after a lightning strike once again bloated with its electrons. They are getting closer to this understanding threw hydroelectricity.
@flowerbower drift my a$@, i explained what will be in your texted books one day. I remember you Flower, how do you feel about cold fusion now being peer reviewed? A little sheepish i would hope. You guys would have bet your life heaver than air flight was impossible and the earth was flat, in short you literally have to have your reality dictated to you by your peers.
@jocell202 Haha, peer-review per se means nothing these days: look at Progress in Physics, for example, a journal run by crackpots and peer-reviewed by crackpots. Real phenomena produce stronger experimental effects with passing time, not weaker ones. Where are the steaming vats which Pons & Fleischman showed?
As for the usual 'stock examples'; you should study the history of science and technology for yourself and try to sound less like a mindless parrot.
BTW, don't be impressed by its 'academic backing': the silly 'Dean Drive' had academic backing.
Don't be impressed by its being awarded SMART money. A perpetual motion machine was also once awarded SMART money (circa £45000).
Even the fraudulent, and non-existent, Searl Effect Generator was awarded £40000 by other suckers. Imagine how much money would be saved if civil servants knew any physics!
OTOH, one of Thatcher's financial (sic) advisors thought that pyramid-selling schemes were OK!
@flowerbower The radiation reflective barium and aluminium gave it away, Its typical mentality, put your land and people at risk in order to protect them. Its the same mentality as the US gun laws and they wonder why lunatics keep killing people everyday.Their excuse is, aerosiling isnt going on, and HAARP is now an atmospheric heating experiment. BTW the UK if you remember on the BBC news(sci-tech) stated a few months ago, they may be spraying salt water in the air to cut global warming? lol
@flowerbower Contd...so why would spraying the air with salt water to create "fluffy white clouds" if they weren't going to cool the air and land below by blocking out the sun, which they say may i add "isn't effecting this global warming because its man made" each idea contradicts the other. You can tell, they are arming up again but not just against Russia, but China too, BUT AT WHAT COST?. Remember the last lot of government backed media crazy UFO alien crap, years ago? Its Starting again
@flowerbower Remember the NVQ they started, one of thatchers government ministers started that as a government backed private educational qualification for people who have been in the same job for 40yrs and they needed the 20yr old teacher who didn't know anything about the said subject to teach them and pass them for a price of £600 per head, paid directly to the ministers bank account. that was and still is the biggest scam on earth.
Of course, the most ludicrous aspect of this is that the photons would indeed have a propulsive effect IF they were not confined by this arrangement.
Moreover, it is not even original: Goddard the rocket pioneer patented an enclosed electromagnetic propulsion device. At that time, he still believed in the all-pervading 'aether'. In later life he expressed embarrassement at his stupidity. Can Shawyer do that without having to return the money?
maybe a strong diamagnetic Mu-Metal(Nickel-iron alloy) wire coated in enamel and wrapped into a coil shape,throw a DC supply through it, not only would you create a magnetic field,but maybe induce a strong electro-diamagnetic field.Below the coil create and attach an ion-wind/corona assembly which may change the magnetic permeability of the air below.Maybe the coil would then float without the normal alloy table top and electromagnetic coil as the diamagnetic coil counteracts air
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Here you are again: putting together likely-sounding ideas without a thought for the magnitudes involved. In fact, part of what you are describing was popular with crackpots 50 years ago - who called it MHD propulsion. I used to be annoyed that the 'levitating frog' demonstration was awarded an Ignobel prize, but now I agree, in that it unduly heightened the expectations of the layman.
@flowerbower How is it in that lonely place, sat there saying to oneself, everyone is stupid but me? do you say because the numbers dont add up and we know everything there is to know, nothing else can be possible..you remind me of how the church would act towards the science you think you know everything about. Only when people start to look at it in a different way, you rant and rave shouting blasphemous, off with his head. You have a polarized mind, you see paint, where others see a picture
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Haha, you would like to think that, wouldn't you? However, I bask in the approbation of the other few scientists who bother to harry the crackpots and I have the tacit support of the entire community of physicists (engineers are a different species; not every white-coat-wearer with an 'ology' degree is a scientist).
Amusingly enough, I DO equate pseudoscience to modern art: neither 'stands by itself', but has to have the (shady) perpetrator always on hand to 'interpret' it.
@flowerbower All experimental ideas, created by engineers or anyone for that matter, live in the realms of Pseudo science until a phenomena is found that doesn't add up, and to make things worse, the likes of you, take it, and pat yourselves on the head for finding it. If lets say 100% of observational testing find no change on 10 of the same experiments, its thus then fact. but if another 20 were completed and one showed a (limited observational) irregularity, it turns your numbers to shit.
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Rubbish: pseudoscience is quite distinct from 'untested science'. Pseudoscientists always start with a short list (energy-from-nowhere, mystic-type levitation, cure-for-cancer, etc.) of profitable inventions and then concoct dubious 'proof' with which to extract development money from gullible (but rich) investors.
Real scientists detect subtle anomalies and spend a lot of time on checking that they are not deceiving themselves. Some mere inventor then steals the credit.
@flowerbower untested science? who is a scientist and who isn't, many recognised scientists have been wrong with their "testing" so who are you to categorize the list, or are you the only one in it? lol
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER You seem again to subscribe to the lay idea that science is based entirely upon key experiments performed by famous scientists. It is, in fact, a gestalt activity in which facts are a matter of the dynamic balance of evidence for and against a given hypothesis. Such hypotheses may be drawn from any quarter: for instance, the currently accepted model for positronium was proposed by an amateur scientist cum crackpot.
@flowerbower being into aeronautics, would you think a man made barium aerosol with diamagnetic alloy particles creating high altitude cloud coverage, would reflect or hinder spy plane or orbit based radar and scanning equipment and increase the overflying stealth spy planes radar signature?
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Hmm, sounds like Project Argus; one of the most irresponsible 'scientific' (actually military) experiments ever carried out, although the aim in that case was to improve communication.
But what is the point? Until very recently Burghfield nuclear assembly plant was always erased from Ordnance maps. Nowadays it is fully visible on Google Earth. One can even 'walk the perimeter' on Google Street-Level. That was once a 'nuclear police' arrestable offence. BTW someone showed ...
@flowerbower Yes it was said to improve communication on the battlefield, they call it HAARP now. Only as you say, it doesnt work for communications, so why would they keep using it today. The thing is, they have stated the aerosoling isn't being done, but anyone with half a brain can see whats going on, more so when biologists have been testing the soil aluminium content under areas of this experiment, the microbial and plant life is dying off. They deny aerosling has anything to do with HAARP
@flowerbower I know most countries have this HAARP array, but they are saying along with the communications idea, they are using it to test atmospheric effects by heating up the upper atmosphere. The radiation reflective barium with aluminium particles was the give away. The only problem is, aluminium is highly toxic..they are a set of fucking idiots, it defeats the point, why put at risk the land and its people with this crap, to protect them, its like the US gun law mentality
@flowerbower I know most countries have this HAARP array, but they are saying along with the communications idea, they are using it to test atmospheric effects by heating up the upper atmosphere. The radiation reflective barium with aluminium particles was the give away. The only problem is, aluminium is highly toxic..they are a set of fucking idiots, it defeats the point, why put at risk the land and its people with this crap, to protect them, its like the US gun law mentality
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER [cont] in Journal of Applied Physics some 30 years ago that a suitable cloud of material, freshly deployed above a city, could effectively protect the latter from a nuclear airburst weapon.
@flowerbower Stick to the Garry Mckinnon UFO dissinfo program, and leave the EM drive experiments alone. You cant win, its only a matter of time, unless you take over the internet and create an equilibrium full of zombies, which i dont think will be possible. Remember, continue to observe with a limited observation, you are not going to understand what it going on, you may think you do, but you dont.
The internet has already been taken over ... by the sort of people who used to rant at passing traffic, write demented letters to newspapers or line the pockets of vanity publishers with their unreadable tomes about the paranomal.
Has it never occurred to you that the internet might itself be a government plot? After all, it gives 'the people' the impression that they have some sort of power while simultaneously alienating them from real life.
@flowerbower I see you seem you like Mitchell and Web, would you say its an intellectually based comedy for the educated, or a failed intellectuals attempt to utilize their uncontrollable personality disorder or sarcasm, in order to amplify the line between the educated and uneducated, by emphasising on in ones face ironic bullshit, to the lesser mortals wouldn't really see it?
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER I welcome any exposure of the pseudoscientific scams which are endemic in our supposedly modern high-tech society. Unfortunately, this is usually a case of 'any port in a storm' and I always end up criticising those, who first appeared to be 'on the same wavelength', because they turn out to be insufficiently skeptical about other matters.
@flowerbower lol@unsufficiently skeptical That's the only problem with the human mind, it seems to follow a single track and finds it hard to remove itself from it. Like a racist, an information racist.
This thing flies man! what kind of mental speed is that! How can we tap into its revolutionary drive system to enable man to go places that man can only dream of at the moment? Phew! pass me my glasses I can hardly believe my eyes! This is one hell of a crazy combobulation you've made. Call the off the search party guys, this dude has nailed it!!!
Currently the electro magnetic is being contracted to aero space companies in the us. These aero space companies work tightly with nasa. Currently the idea is to find a source of power that can exceed 1 mega watt for as long as desired. This video shows the new model made in august of 2010 that operates between 140 watts - 425 watts, generating to a max of 345 milli newtons. The first model made was much larger and and generated over 1 newton on its lowest powered test.
@DawsonTyson Oh yes, NASA; which wasted some $10M on trying to reproduce the 'Podkletnov effect'. Funny that: physicists had said right from the start that it was merely an experimental artefact.
And who can forget the great enthusiasm for 'electrogravitics' of 60 years ago, which was based upon the dubious conclusions of a single crackpot?
@flowerbower you are right that they wasted money on a reproduction during the initial construction of the device. how ever, in a zero gravity environment it has yet to be tested and ill remind you that all technology comes with new ideas, trials and errors, and at times shear dumb luck. understand that knowledge is our evolution and is gained over time.listen, i dont lecture. i just want back up the fact that this is a huge step in proving that the unknown and science fiction can be reality.
@flowerbower close but not quit. i say this as fact, not to inspire those with with no rational imagination. and you are right, what i said has meaning to reality yet is meaningless to those who are short sighted.
@DawsonTyson Ah, don't tell me: those who perform careful experiments and firmly establish scientific laws which then allow them to cut easily through cant and fraud, are short-sighted. Meanwhile, those who fail to study those scientific laws and instead try to earn a quick buck by duping the general public (which has studied them even less), partake of the godhead and will take us to the stars. Pulleeeze!
This proves absolutely nothing until the device runs from a battery and is tested inside a vacuum by someone *other* than Roger Shawyer. Further, it's extraordinarily unclear how Shawyer claims that a device you can put inside a box (ie, a closed system) can produce a net external force, and not violate conservation of momentum. To be clear, violation of conservation of momentum is equivalent to violation of conservation of energy. Which is for a physicist, saying 0 = 1 to a mathematician.
This reminds me of the Mythbusters' (not so) free energy propane heat wheel. It does work, but agonizingly slowly... not powerful enough to do much work.
@djxtatik Which is all rather irrelevant because it is clear that the entire concept is based upon a misunderstanding of basic physics. One can look at it in 2 ways: if one imagines the photon situation, it is the same as the old 'pigeons in a lorry' scenario. If one imagines the (standing) wave situation, it is - in essence - just the hydrostatic paradox. Introducing relativity is just a red-herring. In fact, it is an exact contradiction of one of Einstein's thought experiments.
@ollieoniel Unfortunately for that thesis a) light does not require a medium for propagation (that realisation was one of the greatest discoveries of all time) and b) even if it 'pushed off a medium' that medium would be enclosed and would still not produce any reaction. Shawyer's theory is nonsense and its financial backing by the government is an indictment of the seriously dumbed-down state of UK science.
@ollieoniel Space-time is not a medium. Most of the light that you have ever seen travelled through a vacuum; light-waves do not have to 'wave' in anything. The aether was an unnecessary hypothesis. Yeah sure, do my own tests. When I have time but, for now, I am too busy checking that the Earth is not flat. Seriously, it is for Shawyer to provide better proof: his experimentation is currently as ropy as his theory. Engineers make bad scientists; especially electrical ones.
@ollieoniel It is not a medium; it is a reference frame. Do you really think that a perfect vacuum is going to develop 'new' properties, not observed in increasingly high vacua? Where did I say that light does not exist? I 'merely' pointed out that photons, bouncing around within a closed container, cannot possibly lead to propulsion. I have a thick file listing the stupidities of electrical engineers. check out the CVs of prominent crackpots, and see for yourself.
@ollieoniel I suspect that your 'eye for nonsense' is nowhere as keen as mine. Perhaps I wasn't clear: most of those holding crackpot views on physics are electrical engineers. Let me start you off: Laithwaite, Aspden, Valone ...
Since the speed of light in vacuo is the absolute upper limit on information transfer, nothing can have an infinite velocity (NB the photon's REST mass is zero). You have clearly read a lot about science and, equally clearly, have understood nothing.
@ollieoniel Have you noticed how many suspects on Crimewatch are non-white? Is that racism, or an inevitable reflection of the available data? Same principle for crackpots.
Information transfer is the key factor; it explains why quantum non-locality experiments do not disprove special relativity.
@Checkingokop Of course. If you knew anything about real physics, rather than just the nonsense posted on the internet by crackpots, you would know so too. And please do not bore me with tales of astronomical phenomena which appear to prove the opposite; these were long ago shown to be relativistic paradoxes. Do you have any proof that there is anything (material) that can travel faster than light (in a vacuum)? BTW, don't forget that there are at least 7 ways of defining the speed of light.
@flowerbower I dont have any proof, but in some cases the speed of light can be increased relative to its surroundings, giving the apperance of FTL travel! :)
@StaggnGuvnor I know that trick: it can be demonstrated using a simple electrical circuit (I have a paper on it somewhere in my files). It is done by sending a signal in the form of a shaped pulse rather than a sharp spike. It is not really FTL, but a degree of ambiguity concerning the phase and group velocities creeps in and makes it look FTL.
@flowerbower Thats quite interesting, also in qunatum tunnelling it perceived by the outside world that light is travelling 1.7 times faster, though it is not actually. :)
@StaggnGuvnor The key question in special relativity is how fast information can be transferred, and the limiting speed on that is c. There are entities which exceed c, but they do not transfer information. The decades-old Aspect quantum non-locality experiments showed that EPR-type situations can involve exceeding c by an arbitrarily high factor (so the tunneling case is no surprise). However, an EPR-type test cannot transmit information, and special relativity thus remains intact.
@SHITONASTICK1100 There is no experimental or theoretical evidence, that I am aware of, which indicates that information can be transferred in that way at FTL speeds.
@flowerbower you don't increase the speed of light, you change what light travels through. If the EM field ends up to be the carrier for the gravitational effect in some way, like nothing more than a frequency or wave length induced or fed by the weak force carriers to the particles in question, which in turn are weak force gravitational effects...by creating an external gravitational or electromagnetic shield or jammer, would simply cancel out inertia/gravity/mass and remove the field density
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER That is what we physicists refer to as a 'word salad'; a string of likely-sounding technical terms having no intrinsic worth. I can see where it comes from: I have always said that TV science programmes like Horizon are a bad idea because they 'educate viewers beyond their intelligence'.
@flowerbower Charming return, its those with the likes of your genius that created and built at cost of billions, the LHC to look for the graviton. I wonder why the graviton was assumed to exist, was it the fact that the graviton was a weak force that traveled at c, and that this boson force carrier could be found in matter because the energy or force was to be pulled from the EM field at a said frequency? If your not interested and just like talking down to people who are, go and fuck off!
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER I like to compare the money spent on worthwhile projects to that spent on, say, gambling.
You appear to watch dumbed-down science on TV, and STILL fail to understand what is going on: the main purpose of the LHC is to look for the Higgs boson; not the graviton.
It is almost amusing that laymen always want to hear about the things that they are least likely to understand whereas a genius like Feynman took delight in things that would appear trivial to laymen.
@flowerbower stick your "Layman" sticker up your blind ass, i know why the LHC was made, they should find it by Christmas if it exists. But do you think they will? i dont think they will, but they may find something else they didnt think they would, but who knows. Lets say we found the graviton and it existed, let's say it was a frequency in the EM field, as a government or governments, would you give that to the rest of the world or would you keep it back, from your enemies?
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Well, if you do know, why do you make comments which suggest the opposite? I have reservations about the Higgs boson because it seems to me to be incompatible with special relativity, and to re-introduce an aether-like entity. The graviton is the QM particle postulated to be associated with gravitational waves (if they exist). I don't know why a fundamental discovery should be considered a matter of strategic importance. The A-bomb could have been built without knowing E=mc^2.
@flowerbower if you only knew about reality - youre type of beings is at the lower level of intelligence, because all you can do is just recite waht youve read or been told by "notables", you can not discern reality for yourself. w w w.wafb . com/story/16083049/was-einstein-wrong
@Checkingokop Ah, the wonderful topsy-turvy world of the loony-tune; where those that do all of the real scientific research know nothing, and those who can just about read dubious internet 'evidence' are all geniuses. You would have been happier in totalitarian societies such as Nazi Germany, Mao's China and Pol Pot's Cambodia, where crackpots were elevated and real scientists were killed. Guess what, that led to disaster: all of the best physicists fled to America and built the atom bomb ...
@Checkingokop [cont] and Lysenkoism in Russia ruined its agriculture so that they had to buy grain from America for decades. Why not try to recognise your innate stupidity, and avoid picking intellectual fights which you cannot win. To put it another way: in a battle of wits, you have only half of what it takes (LOL).
@flowerbower so youre suggesting taht Russians are innately stupid? lol you leprechaun. Import of grain in Russia was around 80's; when was Lysenko's dynasty? Btw, Eisenstein was German, and so was Von Braun, all you can fall back onto is Edison as there werent taht many real American scientists. I also provided you with facts to help you open up your mind, but the level of your intelligence can not surpass a threshold. If we lived in middle ages, youd be saying that earth is the center of all
@Checkingokop My point was that you would enjoy the sort of society which arbitrarily put crackpots in charge of scientific research, as Stalin did with Lysenko. The latter's idiotic ideas concerning seed treatment had long-term effects.
I don't know why you mention the Russian film director, Eisenstein: perhaps you were attempting to write 'Einstein', and missed. I still don't see your point, as I am the first to agree that America imports its brains. Even so, Von Braun was only an engineer ...
@Checkingokop [cont] and war criminal; not a scientist. Neither was Edison. He was just an inventor who, like Tesla, stole the discoveries of scientists. On the one occasion when he did discover a new phenomenon, he attributed it to paranormal activity.
You have not provided any facts worthy of the name. Why not go away and ask yourself why all of the claims of successful perpetual motion, anti-gravity, etc., are restricted to the internet and are not found in the real world?
@flowerbower Look people cant understand, just tell them in a way they can understand ffs...tell them the vacuum consists of an electromagnetic field and a matter field. If they want a medium, that is it. and a wave travels through that medium or that field. people may start to visualise it a bit better then. They wanto try and understand, and not get attacked for asking. Its a wonder people dont kick the shit out of you every day due to your attitude. Change it!
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Why would I tell them nonsense like that? Quantum mechanics suggests that the vacuum consists of virtual particles and that the associated wave aspects lead to observable effects such as the Casimir force and the Knight shift. The delightful thing about this theory is that the basic physics can be demonstrated using everyday objects and that the underlying phenomenon had been observed by sailors ... centuries ago. Simple, no?Stop getting your 'knowledge' from half-baked sources!
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER It is well known that the Casimir effect is basically a geometrical one which arises due to the differing wavelengths that can exist between, and beyond, adjacent bodies. A macroscopic version of the effect occurs when 2 plates are suspended in water and subjected to vibration. It also explains the 'mysterious power' which used to cause becalmed sailing ships to cluster together.
@flowerbower Would you guess that the Casimir effect has something to do with the gravitational field and maybe do you think, it is also where force carriers take energy from?
I was really beginning to believe this EmDrive by reading up on it. Until I saw this video! is this all they could come up with £250,000? rotating a room around ?
@smokingsix It is quite shocking, isn't it; that a government can be conned in this way? Surely, one thinks, they can call upon the best scientists in the country to point out that it cannot work. But that is the problem: if one is not a scientist, how can one be sure that the one whom chooses is not a closet crackpot? Eric Laithwaite pointed this dilemma out himself, and he WAS a crackpot!
Barring some kind of "extra-dimensional" effect resulting from strange quantum physics that haven't been discovered yet, I do not see how such a device could possibly exist where it has no outwardly measurable force creating thrust.
Fifteen hundred years ago everybody KNEW the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago everybody KNEW the Earth was flat. And fifteen minutes ago you KNEW that people were alone on this planet. Imagine what you will KNOW tomorrow. If all of you were to inverst one minute of your time into trying to make something like this work. We might be one step closer to reaching the stars. You will all look silly if this guy makes it work and makes millions of it.
@machcncsystems fifteen hundred years ago people didn't understand the conservation of momentum and energy. Now, fifteen hundred years later, people apparently STILL don't. Just because the average person (myself included) doesn't understand why the emdrive is impossible does not mean the average person is right. You have no more evidence to believe this hoax than to disbelieve in cancer, atoms, liquids. Until its proven or disproven, us amateurs should keep our opinions to ourselves.
@rjdaredevil - sorry, you are wrong in your assumption, I come from the city where they invented the computer and first split the atom. And - I have a Miele-Washingmachine, so I know what I am talking about.
@Junctus 'Many a true word spoken in jest'. One academic has written an entire book about the counter-intuitive effects which vibration can produce. Unusual for an academic, he even takes time out to poke fun at individual crackpots; especially Norman Dean.
This device completely follows the laws of physics. The electrons are converted into high power microwaves in the magnetron, and the microwaves enter a copper cylinder with one end larger than the other. When the microwaves slam into the end of the cylinder, the momentum is released outward while the microwaves are reflected back into the device. The released momentum provides thrust.
Please do not try to 'explain' what you yourself clearly do not understand. The electrons are not 'converted'; their acceleration in the resonant cavities of the magnetron generates photons. The silly misconception that momentum can be 'released outward' is the basis of hundreds of worthless 'anti-gravity' patents. Perhaps you would care to explain why 'reflected' gas molecules do not cause irregularly shaped closed containers to self-propel themselves. Do you believe that photons are magical?
Yeah. This is just like the perpetual motion idea I invented where I 2 friends and I can all make millions of dollars. All we need to start is one dollar. we just keep passing in a circle from hand to hand.
Just because this device doesnt work doesnt mean its impossible... Someone as smart as you are should not limit themselves to the boundries of "modern physics" 200 years ago we couldnt tell and atom from our ass. How much more do you THINK we know? Accept the fact that we dont know everything and that sometimes humans make mistakes. Even in physics.
It is not 'modern physics' which says that this cannot work, but classical physics. This would have been laughed at 200 years ago because its 'principle of operation' is obviously just a disguised version of the hydrostatic paradox, which has been fooling students for centuries. OTOH, Galileo once fell for a similar fallacy: before he actually performed the experiment, he - in effect - expected a working sand-glass (egg-timer) to weigh less than a non-working one.
So where exactly is this 'real science' going on? I edit a physics journal, among other things, and the word is unknown (except as a term coined by the silly Winterhaven project of the 1950s). You really must learn to distinguish between Science, and the activities of various isolated individuals who may have scientific qualifications but who have singularly failed to exercise proper scientific caution with regard to their theories or experiments.
I'm about to get a doctorate in physics at NCSU and can verify that the mathematics involved are totally bogus. He starts off with the Lorentz force which does NOT apply to neutral photons, and it goes downhill from there. The goal is to get investor's money, as with all such hoaxes. Nature's way to indicate that physics classes are a very good investment!
So this is supposed to be proof that this thing exists? Where are the public demonstrations? I mean real ones with astronautical engineers, physicists, etc. looking everything over. Crap like this always seems to be shrouded in some retarded mystery. You'd think one of the people who invented the water powered car would just pass the technology on instead of mysteriously dying wouldn't you? This kind of stuff is so obvious and childish.
Nutters have been claiming to run motors on water since about 1850. And the reasons why scientists are not allowed a close look, or why no saleable machine ever appears, are always the same: commercial secrecy, suppression, etc.
These inventors are always promising some great breakthrough; apparently not noticing that there has long been a greater breakthrough. That is: full acceptance of the conservation laws.
Not so fast! The water powered (and air powered) cars can be destroyed as easily as those "EV1" cars! It's the oil and car companies who hire lots of specialists to attack on the public front and lobbyist to con our stupid politicians! They don't want anything comming in between them and their profits.
haha come on dude :) based on what this guy's done the chinese are 'starting' to develop their own (starting). No engineering firm has a working product they can show you..before they've built it! so give it a few years man, they said we couldn't make it into space decades ago..and then they started building rockets, take this as the first 'public' step into the development of anti gravity propulsion :)
lmao @ China verified math was correct? them chinamens, as I learned many years ago are nothing more than copiers of technology! They cheat, steal and lie with ever breath and rule with absolutism. They are owning the sick materialist nations around the world by labor at 1/10th cents on the dollar labor so I hope this device creates a black hole and sucks some of their politicians into it, maybe with some of ours(USA)
as far as this technology, you cant get something for nothing and basic laws of physics that governs our planet cannot be overcome. However, this principle is somewhat sound and uses the same premise as a laser, using lasing, which are higher frequency protons trapped in a tube multiplying. Seems to me they will end up with a lot of chinamens with their nut sacks micro waved.
I have also looked at the mathematics, and MY conclusion is that it is, as expected, nonsense. You see, there is no point in asking a mathematician about this sort of thing, because they simply look at the mathematics and may well be unaware of the physical subtleties of the situation. The UK mathematician who first backed Shawyer has since retracted his conclusion. Perhaps it is all a clever plot to waste Chinese resources.
No, a torch would make some sense because the exiting photons would act as reaction mass. This is a torch with the bulb completely surrounded by reflectors (one big, one small) so that NO photons can exit. The idiot, Shawyer, thinks that photons hitting the bigger reflector will 'outweigh' the photons hitting the smaller reflector, and make the whole thing move.
If that were so, then every asymmetrical gas-filled box on Earth would be capable of propelling itself.
Im no scientist, Im an engineer. But what it seems is that this system breaks Newtons law of 'every force has an equal and opposite direction'. Its like attaching 2 rockets in the opposite direction and setting them off. Nothing will happen. This is similar to that centripetal antigravity device that looks like a fan. I ill rather use plasma emissions. : )
why people don't listen to physicists...atom bomb perhaps? creation of anti-matter and "mini" black holes and yet you persist, nukes the atmosphere even though there was a risk it could be set on fire...a short list for contemplation.
so, you don't need any referance point to be going lightspeed, you just are going lightspeed ? that makes about as much sense as the war in afganistan right now. i'd love to hear your theorys of what "dark matter" is...my opinion mathematical anomoly. but whatever
Haha, the same old stories. Don't like the bomb, which has actually killed fewer people than conventional weapons or even cars. Worried about newspaper-invented scare-stories and a rather silly comment made by one of the Manhatten team. It is really frightening outside of the batty-cave of ignorance, isn't it?
Haven't you seized even the most basic tenet of relativity? There can be no reference point. There are no such 'privileged observers'. That is why Einstein deserves the ...
I don't believe in dark matter. It reminds me of the planet, Vulcan. That (invisible) planet was invented by 19thC astronomers in order to explain the precession of Mercury's orbit. General relativity furnished a much better explanation. I suspect that a further 'tweak' of Newtonian gravitation may now be required.
nice video, the boys in the board (war) room will love this... pity about the posturing fools, but on the bright side i might get my wish for a flying car!!! are you flying if your an inch off the ground?
...around 1 km/s relative to where it was in space relative to the sun, which we don't know what the sun is moving relative to unless you count the galaxys center.
so, the object is not traveling lightspeed + its relative distance from earth, if we use this as a frame of referance. however, spacetime curving due to the object being at light speed, time being different for the object (relatively...) this makes the two theorys very unstable to use as a model.
I have been trying to make sense of it, but several things seem to have become confused. The first thing is that one simply cannot add relativistic speeds in the way that you imply. Secondly, every observer has his own proper time. Thirdly, the curvature which one would observe at near-light speeds is not the same curvature that is associated with general relativity. BTW, the foreshortening effects which are mentioned in Gamow's Thomkins book would, in fact, be unobservable.
I agree that there are some serious questions to be answered, but unfortunately this is coming out of China, so I doubt we will get much more than the way of fan sites for a while. If it performs to the caliber they claim though, this would rewrite the book on space travel, and give China a definitive advantage in space based warfare.
This is like a re-run of cold fusion: after every sane scientist in the West had rightly given up on it, the Japanese continued to waste money on it until very recently. Why will nobody ever listen to we physicists? Look at the ludicrous Podkletnov 'effect'. Physicists immediately spotted that it was an artefact of bad experimental technique, but NASA wasted millions of dollars on it before giving up. Science is not a lottery; one can do much better than blindly buying a ticket 'just in case'.
They recently released some new info on it and it really brings up more questions than answers, and seriously raises the BS factor of all of this. Still, it would be foolish not to at least imagine the possibilities of such a device (I'm an engineer so that is kind of my line of work.) Weather or not it is possible is up to you physicists
Ah, that is just where engineers and physicists differ: engineers* (and 'inventors' and laymen) are always 'open-minded' and willing to consider the possibility of just about anything. Physicists don't posit laws which apply to everything, from the atom to the cosmos, and then make exceptions for a clumsy 'difficult-to-monitor' gadget. 'Experimental artefact' is always a much better explanation, as with the Podkletnov claim.
* electrical engineers are particularly fond of pseudoscience.
If. If. If. Remember the horrible example of Podkletnov. He published a dubious result in a physics journal, and physicists all criticised it or ignored it. Then NASA spent millions on trying to reproduce an 'effect' which never existed in the first place. Perhaps NASA bosses should employ a physicist. Or perhaps they perversely avoid that: they must still have nightmares about Feynman performing elementary public tests on that O-ring. Seven dead, blurred Hubble, etc. What a bunch of ....
I am all too familiar with scientific or rather pseudoscientific wild goose chases, but the job of an engineer is to experiment and ask "what if?" The job of a physicist is to examine the very nature of the universe while admitting that it is all just a best guess. I do not deny that this particular technology is an extremely hard sell, but if, for whatever reason it does work, one must consider the implications. Besides its China, if it ends up being BS, then thats their problem.
I am also familiar with the lottery (or Pascal's wager) approach to research: it wastes resources, and is a boon to cranks. It was that approach which led, for example, to the ludicrous situation of a UK university holding a patent on a silly gyroscopic antigravity drive. I would suggest that the more down-to-Earth job of physicists is to provide a much better assessment of the odds of success, than simply guessing. In the case of the Emdrive, it seems to be that the inventor made a silly ...
[cont] mistake in a theoretical calculation and then immediately tried to 'make the spirit flesh' by building the complete gadget. No physicist would do that: he would instead build the simplest possible device capable of demonstrating the 'anomaly'. If I were a 19th century scientist who wanted to show that electric motors were feasible, I wouldn't rush to build a complete motor, I would just take a conductive thread, a battery and a permanent magnet and show that the thread, when carrying ..
[cont] a current, tries to wrap itself around the magnet.
Returning to Shawyer's basic theory, it is downright comical. Perhaps you are unaware that mathematicians occasionally use physical laws to prove theorems. For instance, they prove that any conceivable polyhedron must have at least one face upon it can stand stably, because it would otherwise be a perpetual motion machine. Similarly, they prove other theorems about the geometrical properties of convex solids by invoking the kinetic ..
Perhaps that is why Shawyer introduces the 'excuse' of relativity, but he again shoots himself in the foot because his device then becomes - in essence - Einstein's classic 'photons in a box' thought-experiment proof of E=mc^2. If Shawyer thinks that he has disproved such a well-attested law, he should be going for a Nobel prize, not a dodgy 'space drive'!
Oops, I seem to have missed out a step in the above argument; it is an obvious one, but nevertheless ...
the point about convex solids and the kinetic theory of gases is that one can assume, on the basis of physics, that there will be no nett movement, so one can then prove a lot about the geometrical properties of the solid. Shawyer is saying the exact opposite! That is, that one can produce movement 'geometrically' (aka the hydrostatic paradox)
I can see where this is going, im not an internet educated moron, I have the UK government to thank for that which is worse by my standard, if you don't understand what i'm saying about special and general relativity being two intertwined yet flawed theorys then simply give up. read einstien's books, and don't tell me i've spelled things wrong, I don't care, if it makes sense its fine.
Why did you post that as a statement, rather than as a reply? Afraid that I would see it?
You did not even mention general relativity; see how important it is to be precise?
As I have pointed out elsewhere, it is easy to call some theory 'flawed'. It immediately gives one the aura of an authoritative critic, rather than suggesting someone who does not actually know what he is talking about. UK science education is now indeed very poor, so first check that your premises are not wrong.
stupid captcha thing came up so I forgot to press, my bad.
I have to agree, my friend did A level and was told "remember the atomic structure? forget about it." the first day, and I was in top class until I left and was not told this, so the internet is like a second try I guess.
let me give you an example to explain myself i've not been clear.
an object on earth is accelerated to light speed over some arbitrary amount of time, the earth is traveling relatively away from the object at...
What is there to 'research', except anecdote? I suggest that you revise your concept of what constitutes valid evidence before climbing onto every passing bandwagon.
So where's my flying car upgrade?
williamseet 3 days ago
Where are the naked girls? I mean how can you have a bunch of stuff seeming to float in an empty room and expect people to get all excited about anything, without naked girls?
doceigen 3 weeks ago
So, it's microwave?
950horsepower 2 months ago
@950horsepower Yes, and the associated photons would have a small propulsive effect IF this idiot did not put everything into a closed box. That is like sealing a rocket into a steel drum and expecting the drum to take off.
flowerbower 2 months ago
Please tell me how water hangs in the atmosphere by the tons?
jocell202 4 months ago
@jocell202 It's a vaporous gas.
Brotramel 4 months ago
@Brotramel So? it still defies gravity, it is due to losing some electrons, just as i predicted hole doping would aid in superconductivity i also predicted thunder was not from air expansion, thunder will one day be known as the implosion of electrons being added back to positively charged water molecules. Thus the rain falls back down after a lightning strike once again bloated with its electrons. They are getting closer to this understanding threw hydroelectricity.
jocell202 3 months ago
@jocell202 Why don't you learn some real physics and try to sound less like a moron.
flowerbower 3 months ago
@jocell202 If you are referring to clouds: convection and Stokes' drift.
flowerbower 3 months ago
@flowerbower drift my a$@, i explained what will be in your texted books one day. I remember you Flower, how do you feel about cold fusion now being peer reviewed? A little sheepish i would hope. You guys would have bet your life heaver than air flight was impossible and the earth was flat, in short you literally have to have your reality dictated to you by your peers.
jocell202 3 months ago
@jocell202 Haha, peer-review per se means nothing these days: look at Progress in Physics, for example, a journal run by crackpots and peer-reviewed by crackpots. Real phenomena produce stronger experimental effects with passing time, not weaker ones. Where are the steaming vats which Pons & Fleischman showed?
As for the usual 'stock examples'; you should study the history of science and technology for yourself and try to sound less like a mindless parrot.
flowerbower 3 months ago
@flowerbower youre the biggest crackpot here, get a fkn brain, fkn recording machine.
Checkingokop 2 months ago
According to his theory there should be a clockwise rotation and not CC as demonstrated on the video.
butinmyownopinion 4 months ago
BTW, don't be impressed by its 'academic backing': the silly 'Dean Drive' had academic backing.
Don't be impressed by its being awarded SMART money. A perpetual motion machine was also once awarded SMART money (circa £45000).
Even the fraudulent, and non-existent, Searl Effect Generator was awarded £40000 by other suckers. Imagine how much money would be saved if civil servants knew any physics!
OTOH, one of Thatcher's financial (sic) advisors thought that pyramid-selling schemes were OK!
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower The radiation reflective barium and aluminium gave it away, Its typical mentality, put your land and people at risk in order to protect them. Its the same mentality as the US gun laws and they wonder why lunatics keep killing people everyday.Their excuse is, aerosiling isnt going on, and HAARP is now an atmospheric heating experiment. BTW the UK if you remember on the BBC news(sci-tech) stated a few months ago, they may be spraying salt water in the air to cut global warming? lol
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@flowerbower Contd...so why would spraying the air with salt water to create "fluffy white clouds" if they weren't going to cool the air and land below by blocking out the sun, which they say may i add "isn't effecting this global warming because its man made" each idea contradicts the other. You can tell, they are arming up again but not just against Russia, but China too, BUT AT WHAT COST?. Remember the last lot of government backed media crazy UFO alien crap, years ago? Its Starting again
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@flowerbower Remember the NVQ they started, one of thatchers government ministers started that as a government backed private educational qualification for people who have been in the same job for 40yrs and they needed the 20yr old teacher who didn't know anything about the said subject to teach them and pass them for a price of £600 per head, paid directly to the ministers bank account. that was and still is the biggest scam on earth.
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
Of course, the most ludicrous aspect of this is that the photons would indeed have a propulsive effect IF they were not confined by this arrangement.
Moreover, it is not even original: Goddard the rocket pioneer patented an enclosed electromagnetic propulsion device. At that time, he still believed in the all-pervading 'aether'. In later life he expressed embarrassement at his stupidity. Can Shawyer do that without having to return the money?
flowerbower 4 months ago
@TheLilphucker It is not a breakthrough: it is yet another example of the poor education and inferior experimental technique of modern UK engineers.
flowerbower 4 months ago
maybe a strong diamagnetic Mu-Metal(Nickel-iron alloy) wire coated in enamel and wrapped into a coil shape,throw a DC supply through it, not only would you create a magnetic field,but maybe induce a strong electro-diamagnetic field.Below the coil create and attach an ion-wind/corona assembly which may change the magnetic permeability of the air below.Maybe the coil would then float without the normal alloy table top and electromagnetic coil as the diamagnetic coil counteracts air
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Here you are again: putting together likely-sounding ideas without a thought for the magnitudes involved. In fact, part of what you are describing was popular with crackpots 50 years ago - who called it MHD propulsion. I used to be annoyed that the 'levitating frog' demonstration was awarded an Ignobel prize, but now I agree, in that it unduly heightened the expectations of the layman.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower How is it in that lonely place, sat there saying to oneself, everyone is stupid but me? do you say because the numbers dont add up and we know everything there is to know, nothing else can be possible..you remind me of how the church would act towards the science you think you know everything about. Only when people start to look at it in a different way, you rant and rave shouting blasphemous, off with his head. You have a polarized mind, you see paint, where others see a picture
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Haha, you would like to think that, wouldn't you? However, I bask in the approbation of the other few scientists who bother to harry the crackpots and I have the tacit support of the entire community of physicists (engineers are a different species; not every white-coat-wearer with an 'ology' degree is a scientist).
Amusingly enough, I DO equate pseudoscience to modern art: neither 'stands by itself', but has to have the (shady) perpetrator always on hand to 'interpret' it.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower All experimental ideas, created by engineers or anyone for that matter, live in the realms of Pseudo science until a phenomena is found that doesn't add up, and to make things worse, the likes of you, take it, and pat yourselves on the head for finding it. If lets say 100% of observational testing find no change on 10 of the same experiments, its thus then fact. but if another 20 were completed and one showed a (limited observational) irregularity, it turns your numbers to shit.
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Rubbish: pseudoscience is quite distinct from 'untested science'. Pseudoscientists always start with a short list (energy-from-nowhere, mystic-type levitation, cure-for-cancer, etc.) of profitable inventions and then concoct dubious 'proof' with which to extract development money from gullible (but rich) investors.
Real scientists detect subtle anomalies and spend a lot of time on checking that they are not deceiving themselves. Some mere inventor then steals the credit.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower untested science? who is a scientist and who isn't, many recognised scientists have been wrong with their "testing" so who are you to categorize the list, or are you the only one in it? lol
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER You seem again to subscribe to the lay idea that science is based entirely upon key experiments performed by famous scientists. It is, in fact, a gestalt activity in which facts are a matter of the dynamic balance of evidence for and against a given hypothesis. Such hypotheses may be drawn from any quarter: for instance, the currently accepted model for positronium was proposed by an amateur scientist cum crackpot.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower being into aeronautics, would you think a man made barium aerosol with diamagnetic alloy particles creating high altitude cloud coverage, would reflect or hinder spy plane or orbit based radar and scanning equipment and increase the overflying stealth spy planes radar signature?
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Hmm, sounds like Project Argus; one of the most irresponsible 'scientific' (actually military) experiments ever carried out, although the aim in that case was to improve communication.
But what is the point? Until very recently Burghfield nuclear assembly plant was always erased from Ordnance maps. Nowadays it is fully visible on Google Earth. One can even 'walk the perimeter' on Google Street-Level. That was once a 'nuclear police' arrestable offence. BTW someone showed ...
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower Yes it was said to improve communication on the battlefield, they call it HAARP now. Only as you say, it doesnt work for communications, so why would they keep using it today. The thing is, they have stated the aerosoling isn't being done, but anyone with half a brain can see whats going on, more so when biologists have been testing the soil aluminium content under areas of this experiment, the microbial and plant life is dying off. They deny aerosling has anything to do with HAARP
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@flowerbower I know most countries have this HAARP array, but they are saying along with the communications idea, they are using it to test atmospheric effects by heating up the upper atmosphere. The radiation reflective barium with aluminium particles was the give away. The only problem is, aluminium is highly toxic..they are a set of fucking idiots, it defeats the point, why put at risk the land and its people with this crap, to protect them, its like the US gun law mentality
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@flowerbower I know most countries have this HAARP array, but they are saying along with the communications idea, they are using it to test atmospheric effects by heating up the upper atmosphere. The radiation reflective barium with aluminium particles was the give away. The only problem is, aluminium is highly toxic..they are a set of fucking idiots, it defeats the point, why put at risk the land and its people with this crap, to protect them, its like the US gun law mentality
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER [cont] in Journal of Applied Physics some 30 years ago that a suitable cloud of material, freshly deployed above a city, could effectively protect the latter from a nuclear airburst weapon.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower Stick to the Garry Mckinnon UFO dissinfo program, and leave the EM drive experiments alone. You cant win, its only a matter of time, unless you take over the internet and create an equilibrium full of zombies, which i dont think will be possible. Remember, continue to observe with a limited observation, you are not going to understand what it going on, you may think you do, but you dont.
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Ah, another conspiracy theorist!
The internet has already been taken over ... by the sort of people who used to rant at passing traffic, write demented letters to newspapers or line the pockets of vanity publishers with their unreadable tomes about the paranomal.
Has it never occurred to you that the internet might itself be a government plot? After all, it gives 'the people' the impression that they have some sort of power while simultaneously alienating them from real life.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower how do you plot.."get fucked"? lol
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@flowerbower I see you seem you like Mitchell and Web, would you say its an intellectually based comedy for the educated, or a failed intellectuals attempt to utilize their uncontrollable personality disorder or sarcasm, in order to amplify the line between the educated and uneducated, by emphasising on in ones face ironic bullshit, to the lesser mortals wouldn't really see it?
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER I welcome any exposure of the pseudoscientific scams which are endemic in our supposedly modern high-tech society. Unfortunately, this is usually a case of 'any port in a storm' and I always end up criticising those, who first appeared to be 'on the same wavelength', because they turn out to be insufficiently skeptical about other matters.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower lol@unsufficiently skeptical That's the only problem with the human mind, it seems to follow a single track and finds it hard to remove itself from it. Like a racist, an information racist.
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
This thing flies man! what kind of mental speed is that! How can we tap into its revolutionary drive system to enable man to go places that man can only dream of at the moment? Phew! pass me my glasses I can hardly believe my eyes! This is one hell of a crazy combobulation you've made. Call the off the search party guys, this dude has nailed it!!!
rubymolly1 5 months ago
Hang it from the roof of a warehouse and subject it to the pendulum test.
MasterTxJ 5 months ago
@MasterTxJ Nah, just throw it from the roof and save time.
flowerbower 4 months ago
Oh visit emdrive.com
DawsonTyson 6 months ago
Currently the electro magnetic is being contracted to aero space companies in the us. These aero space companies work tightly with nasa. Currently the idea is to find a source of power that can exceed 1 mega watt for as long as desired. This video shows the new model made in august of 2010 that operates between 140 watts - 425 watts, generating to a max of 345 milli newtons. The first model made was much larger and and generated over 1 newton on its lowest powered test.
DawsonTyson 6 months ago
@DawsonTyson Oh yes, NASA; which wasted some $10M on trying to reproduce the 'Podkletnov effect'. Funny that: physicists had said right from the start that it was merely an experimental artefact.
And who can forget the great enthusiasm for 'electrogravitics' of 60 years ago, which was based upon the dubious conclusions of a single crackpot?
Will engineers never learn?
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower you are right that they wasted money on a reproduction during the initial construction of the device. how ever, in a zero gravity environment it has yet to be tested and ill remind you that all technology comes with new ideas, trials and errors, and at times shear dumb luck. understand that knowledge is our evolution and is gained over time.listen, i dont lecture. i just want back up the fact that this is a huge step in proving that the unknown and science fiction can be reality.
DawsonTyson 3 months ago
@flowerbower WE AS HUMANITY, ARE A FAR CRY FROM WHAT WE CAN BE
DawsonTyson 3 months ago
@DawsonTyson Sounds like the start of some sort of inspirational spiel ... kind of meaningful and meaningless, all at the same time.
flowerbower 3 months ago
@flowerbower close but not quit. i say this as fact, not to inspire those with with no rational imagination. and you are right, what i said has meaning to reality yet is meaningless to those who are short sighted.
DawsonTyson 3 months ago
@DawsonTyson Ah, don't tell me: those who perform careful experiments and firmly establish scientific laws which then allow them to cut easily through cant and fraud, are short-sighted. Meanwhile, those who fail to study those scientific laws and instead try to earn a quick buck by duping the general public (which has studied them even less), partake of the godhead and will take us to the stars. Pulleeeze!
flowerbower 3 months ago
This proves absolutely nothing until the device runs from a battery and is tested inside a vacuum by someone *other* than Roger Shawyer. Further, it's extraordinarily unclear how Shawyer claims that a device you can put inside a box (ie, a closed system) can produce a net external force, and not violate conservation of momentum. To be clear, violation of conservation of momentum is equivalent to violation of conservation of energy. Which is for a physicist, saying 0 = 1 to a mathematician.
Username93611 6 months ago
I got the instructions from Stewie from family guy.
vinnie181 6 months ago
@vinnie181 Impossible: Stewie's ideas work!
flowerbower 4 months ago
i wanna luck under the table........ or at a perpendicular angle to the table
kedwardsTWO 6 months ago
If this really is an EmDrive... HOLY SHIT!
JBRewind 7 months ago
This rig is designed to simulate a 100Kg spacecraft in weightless conditions. Considering how long it was on, it was an impressive display.
LarryH54 8 months ago
WOW !!!
ThornAndel 10 months ago
This reminds me of the Mythbusters' (not so) free energy propane heat wheel. It does work, but agonizingly slowly... not powerful enough to do much work.
TheNuclearWatermelon 1 year ago
if its true than thumbs up, can you give more explanations and more clear video
tobeperfectstranger 1 year ago
my dog has antigravity balls. till this day I can find him
oscar2oo9 1 year ago
First of all, the machine you see here is NOT levitating.
The test is to see whether the EmDrive can push the device in a circular motion (as seen by the distance markings on the white board.
Its just a proof of concept device.
djxtatik 1 year ago
@djxtatik Which is all rather irrelevant because it is clear that the entire concept is based upon a misunderstanding of basic physics. One can look at it in 2 ways: if one imagines the photon situation, it is the same as the old 'pigeons in a lorry' scenario. If one imagines the (standing) wave situation, it is - in essence - just the hydrostatic paradox. Introducing relativity is just a red-herring. In fact, it is an exact contradiction of one of Einstein's thought experiments.
flowerbower 1 year ago
@flowerbower Its not quite the same thing from what i think
they are trying to get at is that light travels through a medium
photons as science says that medium is. This device pushes off
that medium.
ollieoniel 1 year ago
@ollieoniel Unfortunately for that thesis a) light does not require a medium for propagation (that realisation was one of the greatest discoveries of all time) and b) even if it 'pushed off a medium' that medium would be enclosed and would still not produce any reaction. Shawyer's theory is nonsense and its financial backing by the government is an indictment of the seriously dumbed-down state of UK science.
flowerbower 1 year ago
@flowerbower Light does travel through space time does it not?
light has never been observed oustide some form of medium.
light may not travel through the ether as it has been suggested.
but it always travels though something. Anyway thats not what
I am saying it does I am just saying thats what he says it does.
In truth i dont know if this will work but don't rubish it until you
do your own tests.
ollieoniel 1 year ago
@ollieoniel Space-time is not a medium. Most of the light that you have ever seen travelled through a vacuum; light-waves do not have to 'wave' in anything. The aether was an unnecessary hypothesis. Yeah sure, do my own tests. When I have time but, for now, I am too busy checking that the Earth is not flat. Seriously, it is for Shawyer to provide better proof: his experimentation is currently as ropy as his theory. Engineers make bad scientists; especially electrical ones.
flowerbower 1 year ago
@flowerbower Space time is a medium also space is not a perfect
vacuum infact a perfect vacuum has never been achieved or witnesed.
Acording to you light doesn't exist is it or what is it you are trying
to get at? And oooo look a generalization about engineers how intelligent
ollieoniel 1 year ago
@ollieoniel It is not a medium; it is a reference frame. Do you really think that a perfect vacuum is going to develop 'new' properties, not observed in increasingly high vacua? Where did I say that light does not exist? I 'merely' pointed out that photons, bouncing around within a closed container, cannot possibly lead to propulsion. I have a thick file listing the stupidities of electrical engineers. check out the CVs of prominent crackpots, and see for yourself.
flowerbower 1 year ago
@flowerbower first of all that thick file sounds like thick bull.
second of all you haven't even met one one thousandth of the
electical engineers in the world so all you are doing is
generilizing. Third space time is why a massless particles
called photons have an upper limit and are not infinitely fast.
I am sure you have studied some of this if you are a scientist.
ollieoniel 1 year ago
@ollieoniel I suspect that your 'eye for nonsense' is nowhere as keen as mine. Perhaps I wasn't clear: most of those holding crackpot views on physics are electrical engineers. Let me start you off: Laithwaite, Aspden, Valone ...
Since the speed of light in vacuo is the absolute upper limit on information transfer, nothing can have an infinite velocity (NB the photon's REST mass is zero). You have clearly read a lot about science and, equally clearly, have understood nothing.
flowerbower 1 year ago
@flowerbower ahhh an ego trip how fun. or maybe its the devils
advicate you play but iam not going to indulge you in it as far as
eletrical engineers (why because the arguments you use are the
equivialnt to what a racist would use). information transfer hahaha
so everthing doesn't exist its just information. Photons are massless
when they travel (you haven't been studying) if they had mass, different
frequencys of light would travel at different speeds through space.
Do your research.
ollieoniel 1 year ago
@ollieoniel Have you noticed how many suspects on Crimewatch are non-white? Is that racism, or an inevitable reflection of the available data? Same principle for crackpots.
Information transfer is the key factor; it explains why quantum non-locality experiments do not disprove special relativity.
flowerbower 1 year ago
@flowerbower that is true if you still think that speed of light is the fastest velocity in the universe.
Checkingokop 7 months ago
@Checkingokop Of course. If you knew anything about real physics, rather than just the nonsense posted on the internet by crackpots, you would know so too. And please do not bore me with tales of astronomical phenomena which appear to prove the opposite; these were long ago shown to be relativistic paradoxes. Do you have any proof that there is anything (material) that can travel faster than light (in a vacuum)? BTW, don't forget that there are at least 7 ways of defining the speed of light.
flowerbower 7 months ago
@flowerbower oh really? back in the day they used to think that Newtonian physics were the REAL physics.
Checkingokop 7 months ago
@flowerbower I dont have any proof, but in some cases the speed of light can be increased relative to its surroundings, giving the apperance of FTL travel! :)
StaggnGuvnor 7 months ago
@StaggnGuvnor I know that trick: it can be demonstrated using a simple electrical circuit (I have a paper on it somewhere in my files). It is done by sending a signal in the form of a shaped pulse rather than a sharp spike. It is not really FTL, but a degree of ambiguity concerning the phase and group velocities creeps in and makes it look FTL.
flowerbower 7 months ago
@flowerbower Thats quite interesting, also in qunatum tunnelling it perceived by the outside world that light is travelling 1.7 times faster, though it is not actually. :)
StaggnGuvnor 7 months ago
@StaggnGuvnor The key question in special relativity is how fast information can be transferred, and the limiting speed on that is c. There are entities which exceed c, but they do not transfer information. The decades-old Aspect quantum non-locality experiments showed that EPR-type situations can involve exceeding c by an arbitrarily high factor (so the tunneling case is no surprise). However, an EPR-type test cannot transmit information, and special relativity thus remains intact.
flowerbower 7 months ago
@flowerbower quantum entanglement?
SHITONASTICK1100 6 months ago
@SHITONASTICK1100 There is no experimental or theoretical evidence, that I am aware of, which indicates that information can be transferred in that way at FTL speeds.
flowerbower 6 months ago
@flowerbower you don't increase the speed of light, you change what light travels through. If the EM field ends up to be the carrier for the gravitational effect in some way, like nothing more than a frequency or wave length induced or fed by the weak force carriers to the particles in question, which in turn are weak force gravitational effects...by creating an external gravitational or electromagnetic shield or jammer, would simply cancel out inertia/gravity/mass and remove the field density
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER That is what we physicists refer to as a 'word salad'; a string of likely-sounding technical terms having no intrinsic worth. I can see where it comes from: I have always said that TV science programmes like Horizon are a bad idea because they 'educate viewers beyond their intelligence'.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower Charming return, its those with the likes of your genius that created and built at cost of billions, the LHC to look for the graviton. I wonder why the graviton was assumed to exist, was it the fact that the graviton was a weak force that traveled at c, and that this boson force carrier could be found in matter because the energy or force was to be pulled from the EM field at a said frequency? If your not interested and just like talking down to people who are, go and fuck off!
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER I like to compare the money spent on worthwhile projects to that spent on, say, gambling.
You appear to watch dumbed-down science on TV, and STILL fail to understand what is going on: the main purpose of the LHC is to look for the Higgs boson; not the graviton.
It is almost amusing that laymen always want to hear about the things that they are least likely to understand whereas a genius like Feynman took delight in things that would appear trivial to laymen.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower stick your "Layman" sticker up your blind ass, i know why the LHC was made, they should find it by Christmas if it exists. But do you think they will? i dont think they will, but they may find something else they didnt think they would, but who knows. Lets say we found the graviton and it existed, let's say it was a frequency in the EM field, as a government or governments, would you give that to the rest of the world or would you keep it back, from your enemies?
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Well, if you do know, why do you make comments which suggest the opposite? I have reservations about the Higgs boson because it seems to me to be incompatible with special relativity, and to re-introduce an aether-like entity. The graviton is the QM particle postulated to be associated with gravitational waves (if they exist). I don't know why a fundamental discovery should be considered a matter of strategic importance. The A-bomb could have been built without knowing E=mc^2.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower if you only knew about reality - youre type of beings is at the lower level of intelligence, because all you can do is just recite waht youve read or been told by "notables", you can not discern reality for yourself. w w w.wafb . com/story/16083049/was-einstein-wrong
Checkingokop 2 months ago
@Checkingokop Ah, the wonderful topsy-turvy world of the loony-tune; where those that do all of the real scientific research know nothing, and those who can just about read dubious internet 'evidence' are all geniuses. You would have been happier in totalitarian societies such as Nazi Germany, Mao's China and Pol Pot's Cambodia, where crackpots were elevated and real scientists were killed. Guess what, that led to disaster: all of the best physicists fled to America and built the atom bomb ...
flowerbower 2 months ago
@Checkingokop [cont] and Lysenkoism in Russia ruined its agriculture so that they had to buy grain from America for decades. Why not try to recognise your innate stupidity, and avoid picking intellectual fights which you cannot win. To put it another way: in a battle of wits, you have only half of what it takes (LOL).
flowerbower 2 months ago
@flowerbower so youre suggesting taht Russians are innately stupid? lol you leprechaun. Import of grain in Russia was around 80's; when was Lysenko's dynasty? Btw, Eisenstein was German, and so was Von Braun, all you can fall back onto is Edison as there werent taht many real American scientists. I also provided you with facts to help you open up your mind, but the level of your intelligence can not surpass a threshold. If we lived in middle ages, youd be saying that earth is the center of all
Checkingokop 2 months ago
@Checkingokop My point was that you would enjoy the sort of society which arbitrarily put crackpots in charge of scientific research, as Stalin did with Lysenko. The latter's idiotic ideas concerning seed treatment had long-term effects.
I don't know why you mention the Russian film director, Eisenstein: perhaps you were attempting to write 'Einstein', and missed. I still don't see your point, as I am the first to agree that America imports its brains. Even so, Von Braun was only an engineer ...
flowerbower 2 months ago
@Checkingokop [cont] and war criminal; not a scientist. Neither was Edison. He was just an inventor who, like Tesla, stole the discoveries of scientists. On the one occasion when he did discover a new phenomenon, he attributed it to paranormal activity.
You have not provided any facts worthy of the name. Why not go away and ask yourself why all of the claims of successful perpetual motion, anti-gravity, etc., are restricted to the internet and are not found in the real world?
flowerbower 2 months ago
@flowerbower going away, but not asking, cuz not caring much.
Checkingokop 2 months ago
@flowerbower Look people cant understand, just tell them in a way they can understand ffs...tell them the vacuum consists of an electromagnetic field and a matter field. If they want a medium, that is it. and a wave travels through that medium or that field. people may start to visualise it a bit better then. They wanto try and understand, and not get attacked for asking. Its a wonder people dont kick the shit out of you every day due to your attitude. Change it!
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER Why would I tell them nonsense like that? Quantum mechanics suggests that the vacuum consists of virtual particles and that the associated wave aspects lead to observable effects such as the Casimir force and the Knight shift. The delightful thing about this theory is that the basic physics can be demonstrated using everyday objects and that the underlying phenomenon had been observed by sailors ... centuries ago. Simple, no?Stop getting your 'knowledge' from half-baked sources!
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower I can suggest many things myself, but i wouldnt stake my life on it. so you think the Casimir effect is the EM field?
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
@SASNIGHTCRAWLER It is well known that the Casimir effect is basically a geometrical one which arises due to the differing wavelengths that can exist between, and beyond, adjacent bodies. A macroscopic version of the effect occurs when 2 plates are suspended in water and subjected to vibration. It also explains the 'mysterious power' which used to cause becalmed sailing ships to cluster together.
flowerbower 4 months ago
@flowerbower Would you guess that the Casimir effect has something to do with the gravitational field and maybe do you think, it is also where force carriers take energy from?
SASNIGHTCRAWLER 4 months ago
like david blaine
jipeeji 1 year ago
WTF?! WTF is that?!!!!!
TheSwineyTodd 1 year ago
@TheSwineyTodd A successful attempt to defraud the UK treasury.
flowerbower 1 year ago
I was really beginning to believe this EmDrive by reading up on it. Until I saw this video! is this all they could come up with £250,000? rotating a room around ?
smokingsix 1 year ago
@smokingsix It is quite shocking, isn't it; that a government can be conned in this way? Surely, one thinks, they can call upon the best scientists in the country to point out that it cannot work. But that is the problem: if one is not a scientist, how can one be sure that the one whom chooses is not a closet crackpot? Eric Laithwaite pointed this dilemma out himself, and he WAS a crackpot!
flowerbower 1 year ago
Barring some kind of "extra-dimensional" effect resulting from strange quantum physics that haven't been discovered yet, I do not see how such a device could possibly exist where it has no outwardly measurable force creating thrust.
anwaraisling 1 year ago
Fifteen hundred years ago everybody KNEW the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago everybody KNEW the Earth was flat. And fifteen minutes ago you KNEW that people were alone on this planet. Imagine what you will KNOW tomorrow. If all of you were to inverst one minute of your time into trying to make something like this work. We might be one step closer to reaching the stars. You will all look silly if this guy makes it work and makes millions of it.
machcncsystems 1 year ago
@machcncsystems fifteen hundred years ago people didn't understand the conservation of momentum and energy. Now, fifteen hundred years later, people apparently STILL don't. Just because the average person (myself included) doesn't understand why the emdrive is impossible does not mean the average person is right. You have no more evidence to believe this hoax than to disbelieve in cancer, atoms, liquids. Until its proven or disproven, us amateurs should keep our opinions to ourselves.
KnightValor 1 year ago
my washingmachine can do this as well
Junctus 1 year ago 8
haha well said
sajabz2007 1 year ago
@Junctus mine can too, but alot faster.
Checkingokop 7 months ago
@Junctus u must be an american..lol
rjdaredevil 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rjdaredevil - sorry, you are wrong in your assumption, I come from the city where they invented the computer and first split the atom. And - I have a Miele-Washingmachine, so I know what I am talking about.
Junctus 6 months ago
@Junctus 'Many a true word spoken in jest'. One academic has written an entire book about the counter-intuitive effects which vibration can produce. Unusual for an academic, he even takes time out to poke fun at individual crackpots; especially Norman Dean.
flowerbower 4 months ago
I don't know about the machine, but this video doesn't work :(
badnewswade 1 year ago 6
@badnewswade its working just look closer its moving :D
0102750 10 months ago
This device completely follows the laws of physics. The electrons are converted into high power microwaves in the magnetron, and the microwaves enter a copper cylinder with one end larger than the other. When the microwaves slam into the end of the cylinder, the momentum is released outward while the microwaves are reflected back into the device. The released momentum provides thrust.
TheNuclearWatermelon 2 years ago
Please do not try to 'explain' what you yourself clearly do not understand. The electrons are not 'converted'; their acceleration in the resonant cavities of the magnetron generates photons. The silly misconception that momentum can be 'released outward' is the basis of hundreds of worthless 'anti-gravity' patents. Perhaps you would care to explain why 'reflected' gas molecules do not cause irregularly shaped closed containers to self-propel themselves. Do you believe that photons are magical?
flowerbower 1 year ago
Yeah. This is just like the perpetual motion idea I invented where I 2 friends and I can all make millions of dollars. All we need to start is one dollar. we just keep passing in a circle from hand to hand.
lenfromkits 1 year ago
Just because this device doesnt work doesnt mean its impossible... Someone as smart as you are should not limit themselves to the boundries of "modern physics" 200 years ago we couldnt tell and atom from our ass. How much more do you THINK we know? Accept the fact that we dont know everything and that sometimes humans make mistakes. Even in physics.
Crus777 2 years ago
It is not 'modern physics' which says that this cannot work, but classical physics. This would have been laughed at 200 years ago because its 'principle of operation' is obviously just a disguised version of the hydrostatic paradox, which has been fooling students for centuries. OTOH, Galileo once fell for a similar fallacy: before he actually performed the experiment, he - in effect - expected a working sand-glass (egg-timer) to weigh less than a non-working one.
flowerbower 2 years ago
Let me make it plain and simple. Electrogravitics is a very real science. This video is fake, however this is not impossible.
Crus777 1 year ago
So where exactly is this 'real science' going on? I edit a physics journal, among other things, and the word is unknown (except as a term coined by the silly Winterhaven project of the 1950s). You really must learn to distinguish between Science, and the activities of various isolated individuals who may have scientific qualifications but who have singularly failed to exercise proper scientific caution with regard to their theories or experiments.
flowerbower 1 year ago
I'm about to get a doctorate in physics at NCSU and can verify that the mathematics involved are totally bogus. He starts off with the Lorentz force which does NOT apply to neutral photons, and it goes downhill from there. The goal is to get investor's money, as with all such hoaxes. Nature's way to indicate that physics classes are a very good investment!
WizardBill 2 years ago 2
The governments of China and the UK would disagree with that.
but we'll see where it goes
clayd666 2 years ago
Very nice machine. A slick piece of work. A sealed can from the very man of power span.
Roger, we have clearance for liftoff!
Isochroma 2 years ago
So this is supposed to be proof that this thing exists? Where are the public demonstrations? I mean real ones with astronautical engineers, physicists, etc. looking everything over. Crap like this always seems to be shrouded in some retarded mystery. You'd think one of the people who invented the water powered car would just pass the technology on instead of mysteriously dying wouldn't you? This kind of stuff is so obvious and childish.
sleightly 2 years ago 2
Nutters have been claiming to run motors on water since about 1850. And the reasons why scientists are not allowed a close look, or why no saleable machine ever appears, are always the same: commercial secrecy, suppression, etc.
These inventors are always promising some great breakthrough; apparently not noticing that there has long been a greater breakthrough. That is: full acceptance of the conservation laws.
flowerbower 2 years ago
@sleightly
Not so fast! The water powered (and air powered) cars can be destroyed as easily as those "EV1" cars! It's the oil and car companies who hire lots of specialists to attack on the public front and lobbyist to con our stupid politicians! They don't want anything comming in between them and their profits.
bujoun76 2 years ago
haha come on dude :) based on what this guy's done the chinese are 'starting' to develop their own (starting). No engineering firm has a working product they can show you..before they've built it! so give it a few years man, they said we couldn't make it into space decades ago..and then they started building rockets, take this as the first 'public' step into the development of anti gravity propulsion :)
reshad1 2 years ago
The original clip which was released (2006!) was 4mins and 4secs long. I would suggest that the movement is due to vibration.
flowerbower 2 years ago
lmao @ China verified math was correct? them chinamens, as I learned many years ago are nothing more than copiers of technology! They cheat, steal and lie with ever breath and rule with absolutism. They are owning the sick materialist nations around the world by labor at 1/10th cents on the dollar labor so I hope this device creates a black hole and sucks some of their politicians into it, maybe with some of ours(USA)
HyTechRedNeck007 2 years ago
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HyTechRedNeck007 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
as far as this technology, you cant get something for nothing and basic laws of physics that governs our planet cannot be overcome. However, this principle is somewhat sound and uses the same premise as a laser, using lasing, which are higher frequency protons trapped in a tube multiplying. Seems to me they will end up with a lot of chinamens with their nut sacks micro waved.
HyTechRedNeck007 2 years ago
china have agreed the math is soild and they are now behind this.
toycityworld 2 years ago
I have also looked at the mathematics, and MY conclusion is that it is, as expected, nonsense. You see, there is no point in asking a mathematician about this sort of thing, because they simply look at the mathematics and may well be unaware of the physical subtleties of the situation. The UK mathematician who first backed Shawyer has since retracted his conclusion. Perhaps it is all a clever plot to waste Chinese resources.
flowerbower 2 years ago
o basically this is a overloaded torch?
MrZealot1 2 years ago
No, a torch would make some sense because the exiting photons would act as reaction mass. This is a torch with the bulb completely surrounded by reflectors (one big, one small) so that NO photons can exit. The idiot, Shawyer, thinks that photons hitting the bigger reflector will 'outweigh' the photons hitting the smaller reflector, and make the whole thing move.
If that were so, then every asymmetrical gas-filled box on Earth would be capable of propelling itself.
Hahaha, indeed!
flowerbower 2 years ago
Im no scientist, Im an engineer. But what it seems is that this system breaks Newtons law of 'every force has an equal and opposite direction'. Its like attaching 2 rockets in the opposite direction and setting them off. Nothing will happen. This is similar to that centripetal antigravity device that looks like a fan. I ill rather use plasma emissions. : )
MrZealot1 2 years ago
You would be amazed how many times people have patented the idea of a rocket in which the exhaust is recycled somehow: to use again as reaction mass!
Many others think that centrifugal force is a real, rather than fictitious, force and try to use that for propulsion.
Others think that a gyroscope reacts at right-angles to an imposed force (it doesn't) and try to exploit THAT fallacy.
I blame all of this nonsense on poor teachers and over-simplification of physics lessons.
flowerbower 2 years ago
It just shows some thing turning round.
Could as well be attached to an axle or something.
At least show it from some different angles.
bamikroket 2 years ago
why people don't listen to physicists...atom bomb perhaps? creation of anti-matter and "mini" black holes and yet you persist, nukes the atmosphere even though there was a risk it could be set on fire...a short list for contemplation.
so, you don't need any referance point to be going lightspeed, you just are going lightspeed ? that makes about as much sense as the war in afganistan right now. i'd love to hear your theorys of what "dark matter" is...my opinion mathematical anomoly. but whatever
KKinsane2009 2 years ago
Haha, the same old stories. Don't like the bomb, which has actually killed fewer people than conventional weapons or even cars. Worried about newspaper-invented scare-stories and a rather silly comment made by one of the Manhatten team. It is really frightening outside of the batty-cave of ignorance, isn't it?
Haven't you seized even the most basic tenet of relativity? There can be no reference point. There are no such 'privileged observers'. That is why Einstein deserves the ...
flowerbower 2 years ago
[cont.] accolade of 'genius'.
I don't believe in dark matter. It reminds me of the planet, Vulcan. That (invisible) planet was invented by 19thC astronomers in order to explain the precession of Mercury's orbit. General relativity furnished a much better explanation. I suspect that a further 'tweak' of Newtonian gravitation may now be required.
flowerbower 2 years ago
nice video, the boys in the board (war) room will love this... pity about the posturing fools, but on the bright side i might get my wish for a flying car!!! are you flying if your an inch off the ground?
That70sNinjaHippie 2 years ago
*now traveling light speed* instead of "not" *sigh*
damn you john major/tony blain/gordon brown...
KKinsane2009 2 years ago
...around 1 km/s relative to where it was in space relative to the sun, which we don't know what the sun is moving relative to unless you count the galaxys center.
so, the object is not traveling lightspeed + its relative distance from earth, if we use this as a frame of referance. however, spacetime curving due to the object being at light speed, time being different for the object (relatively...) this makes the two theorys very unstable to use as a model.
does this make sense to you dude?
KKinsane2009 2 years ago
I have been trying to make sense of it, but several things seem to have become confused. The first thing is that one simply cannot add relativistic speeds in the way that you imply. Secondly, every observer has his own proper time. Thirdly, the curvature which one would observe at near-light speeds is not the same curvature that is associated with general relativity. BTW, the foreshortening effects which are mentioned in Gamow's Thomkins book would, in fact, be unobservable.
flowerbower 2 years ago
I agree that there are some serious questions to be answered, but unfortunately this is coming out of China, so I doubt we will get much more than the way of fan sites for a while. If it performs to the caliber they claim though, this would rewrite the book on space travel, and give China a definitive advantage in space based warfare.
YNot1989 2 years ago
This is like a re-run of cold fusion: after every sane scientist in the West had rightly given up on it, the Japanese continued to waste money on it until very recently. Why will nobody ever listen to we physicists? Look at the ludicrous Podkletnov 'effect'. Physicists immediately spotted that it was an artefact of bad experimental technique, but NASA wasted millions of dollars on it before giving up. Science is not a lottery; one can do much better than blindly buying a ticket 'just in case'.
flowerbower 2 years ago
They recently released some new info on it and it really brings up more questions than answers, and seriously raises the BS factor of all of this. Still, it would be foolish not to at least imagine the possibilities of such a device (I'm an engineer so that is kind of my line of work.) Weather or not it is possible is up to you physicists
YNot1989 2 years ago
Ah, that is just where engineers and physicists differ: engineers* (and 'inventors' and laymen) are always 'open-minded' and willing to consider the possibility of just about anything. Physicists don't posit laws which apply to everything, from the atom to the cosmos, and then make exceptions for a clumsy 'difficult-to-monitor' gadget. 'Experimental artefact' is always a much better explanation, as with the Podkletnov claim.
* electrical engineers are particularly fond of pseudoscience.
flowerbower 2 years ago
Well I'm an aerospace engineer so if this thing does work (assuming that the inventor's claims are correct) it would be a big boost to space-flight.
YNot1989 2 years ago
If. If. If. Remember the horrible example of Podkletnov. He published a dubious result in a physics journal, and physicists all criticised it or ignored it. Then NASA spent millions on trying to reproduce an 'effect' which never existed in the first place. Perhaps NASA bosses should employ a physicist. Or perhaps they perversely avoid that: they must still have nightmares about Feynman performing elementary public tests on that O-ring. Seven dead, blurred Hubble, etc. What a bunch of ....
flowerbower 2 years ago
I am all too familiar with scientific or rather pseudoscientific wild goose chases, but the job of an engineer is to experiment and ask "what if?" The job of a physicist is to examine the very nature of the universe while admitting that it is all just a best guess. I do not deny that this particular technology is an extremely hard sell, but if, for whatever reason it does work, one must consider the implications. Besides its China, if it ends up being BS, then thats their problem.
YNot1989 2 years ago
I am also familiar with the lottery (or Pascal's wager) approach to research: it wastes resources, and is a boon to cranks. It was that approach which led, for example, to the ludicrous situation of a UK university holding a patent on a silly gyroscopic antigravity drive. I would suggest that the more down-to-Earth job of physicists is to provide a much better assessment of the odds of success, than simply guessing. In the case of the Emdrive, it seems to be that the inventor made a silly ...
flowerbower 2 years ago
hahaha
MrZealot1 2 years ago
[cont] mistake in a theoretical calculation and then immediately tried to 'make the spirit flesh' by building the complete gadget. No physicist would do that: he would instead build the simplest possible device capable of demonstrating the 'anomaly'. If I were a 19th century scientist who wanted to show that electric motors were feasible, I wouldn't rush to build a complete motor, I would just take a conductive thread, a battery and a permanent magnet and show that the thread, when carrying ..
flowerbower 2 years ago
[cont] a current, tries to wrap itself around the magnet.
Returning to Shawyer's basic theory, it is downright comical. Perhaps you are unaware that mathematicians occasionally use physical laws to prove theorems. For instance, they prove that any conceivable polyhedron must have at least one face upon it can stand stably, because it would otherwise be a perpetual motion machine. Similarly, they prove other theorems about the geometrical properties of convex solids by invoking the kinetic ..
flowerbower 2 years ago
[cont] theory of gases.
Perhaps that is why Shawyer introduces the 'excuse' of relativity, but he again shoots himself in the foot because his device then becomes - in essence - Einstein's classic 'photons in a box' thought-experiment proof of E=mc^2. If Shawyer thinks that he has disproved such a well-attested law, he should be going for a Nobel prize, not a dodgy 'space drive'!
flowerbower 2 years ago
Oops, I seem to have missed out a step in the above argument; it is an obvious one, but nevertheless ...
the point about convex solids and the kinetic theory of gases is that one can assume, on the basis of physics, that there will be no nett movement, so one can then prove a lot about the geometrical properties of the solid. Shawyer is saying the exact opposite! That is, that one can produce movement 'geometrically' (aka the hydrostatic paradox)
flowerbower 2 years ago
I can see where this is going, im not an internet educated moron, I have the UK government to thank for that which is worse by my standard, if you don't understand what i'm saying about special and general relativity being two intertwined yet flawed theorys then simply give up. read einstien's books, and don't tell me i've spelled things wrong, I don't care, if it makes sense its fine.
KKinsane2009 2 years ago
Why did you post that as a statement, rather than as a reply? Afraid that I would see it?
You did not even mention general relativity; see how important it is to be precise?
As I have pointed out elsewhere, it is easy to call some theory 'flawed'. It immediately gives one the aura of an authoritative critic, rather than suggesting someone who does not actually know what he is talking about. UK science education is now indeed very poor, so first check that your premises are not wrong.
flowerbower 2 years ago
stupid captcha thing came up so I forgot to press, my bad.
I have to agree, my friend did A level and was told "remember the atomic structure? forget about it." the first day, and I was in top class until I left and was not told this, so the internet is like a second try I guess.
let me give you an example to explain myself i've not been clear.
an object on earth is accelerated to light speed over some arbitrary amount of time, the earth is traveling relatively away from the object at...
KKinsane2009 2 years ago
This technology and lifter technology explain the 1/2 mile long silent black triangles that fly around the SouthWest US.
callmebigpapa 2 years ago
There is not such 'technology' and the 'observations' are all made by morons with over-active imaginations.
flowerbower 2 years ago 2
The belgian ufo wave? I suggest you research a topic before slandering it.
dalindozindo 2 years ago
What is there to 'research', except anecdote? I suggest that you revise your concept of what constitutes valid evidence before climbing onto every passing bandwagon.
flowerbower 2 years ago 2
And, to be pedantic: a) one cannot slander an abstract concept, b) media exchanges are considered to be libel.
flowerbower 2 years ago 2