Andy Burnham on coaltion NHS reforms (09Oct11)

[CantEVERTrustTorys]

@liarpoliticans i take it u never seen the debate on the reforms then? 97 clauses to introduce competition law. Its a back door privitisation of the NHS they want and look like getting. True labour introuced some private companys but never in clinical services, after stuffing their mouths with gold nye bevan will be spinning in his grave at the thought of handing back the power to gps. Same old tory BS of measure the price of everything and the value of nothing. HANDS OFF OUR NHS

[TheKenfig]

Liam Fox is another Bum Boy like William Hague getting us to pay for his gay fun and toff lifestyle with younger men. Labour's Andy Burnham has doen well for a 15 year old boy

[Sres1]

Was this guy the shadow education secretary last week? Just goes to show, you don't need to know shit about anything to bullshit your way through a job.

2:02 'We won't allow our wonderful NHS into a free market'

Instead we'll stifle competition that will force prices through the roof, which will inevitably lead to the fact that we won't be able to pay for the NHS and as such no one will get health cover. It's started to happen, it will only get worse...

The NHS is dead, time to move on

[MetaReaLizard]

@Sres1 Move on to what..? The NHS needs freeing from private contractor claws who supply substandard services for extortionate prices. The kickbacks and corruption show just how endemic an aspect of capitalism it is. The idea that if we pit these immoral greed driven monsters against each other in derregulated free markets, they will magically cancel each other out, is moronic to the extreme. I'd sooner believe in fairies and leprechauns than that fantastical nonsense.

[Sres1]

@MetaReaLizard The alternative is more money to be thrown at the system, supply and demand always win out, but when governments meddle, the system starts to fault.

If the solution to the NHS isn't going to be easy. We've had years of government meddling, the NHS has become bloated and needs the government to fund it's immoral practice of spending vast amounts of money with little to show.

Stats and figures don't lie, the NHS is failing in many areas that you and I will soon be entering.

[erelpc]

If you want to free up resources/budget for NHS, here are the steps to do so:

1. End intellectual property rights and allow a free market in drugs manufacture and healthcare equipment, so that prices go down to their real value and there is faster technological progress.

2. End government's cosy relationship with the BMA, who pretend to care for patient care (even though they ironically opposed the NHS when it was first formed) but are only interested in lobbying for more monopolised benefits.

[MetaReaLizard]

@erelpc I agree the NHS has become bloated with administration etc... but that's a necessity the opportunity to create employment (during economic downturn) in productive infrastructure - Rail, Telecoms, Steel, Gas Transmissions, Perroleum et al is all gone through privatisation. That argument aside though I see the problem as political gamesmanship of handing the opposition a poison chalice when they are defeated, it is our political system that is sick not society, who follow not lead.

[pondman27]

@MetaReaLizard

The health services have been subverted. With medicines charged for at unbelievable mark ups, and that now kill more people than any other single thing in these islands, the amount of influence the mega pharmas now have should be seriously questioned. Same applies to the deployment of so many dubious substances contained in the plethora of vaccines now peddled by doctors.

Founded from friendly societies and now regarded as big business that is killing not healing.

[pondman27]

@erelpc Even better, is stop the deception of disease causing injections. Would you like avian or swine flu this season. Would you like recombinant insect pathogen proteins with that or a dash of formaldehyde and aluminium hydroxide, just to assist in the onset of dementia!

It all gone terribly wrong hasn't it, but then this was the intent of those that regard the useless eaters as a waste of resource.

[ukipwarrior]

I pay for the NHS but i have not used it in 8 years!!! I wouldnt pay for Sainsburys food i had not eaten!!!

[bogart99]

@ukipwarrior So you have not been to a dentist, doctor or optician for 8 years and had perfect health in all that time well then lucky you I hope you continue have such good fortune. You are also paying to support a system that helps others that are not so fortunate and will be there for you should your luck run out.

[ukipwarrior]

@bogart99 I bail out feckless risk takers like alcoholics who know they will get a free liver or medical unemployment benefits!!

[bogart99]

@ukipwarrior Children with leukaemia those little bastards why won't they just die honestly how dare they spend your money and OMG the elderly they have so many health problems Gas the oxygen thieving bastards. Do you read the Daily Mail by any chance?

Don't throw bullshit arguments at me.

[ukipwarrior]

@bogart99 My point is look at how superior many other european countries have their healthcare and actually i read the telegraph u read the guardian per chance

[pondman27]

@bogart99 I have an ongoing claim against a dentist that (for his own profit) initiated a procedure that caused real harm. In his onw words he told me he had used nothing not biocompatible, yet when I looked at the substances used, I horrified to find a cocktail of toxins!

Is mercury good to swallow? No it is not, yet in these islands little children have been given this nerve agent for decades. A literally stupefying imposition and one that is now thankfully being banned in other countries.

[wrightmt01]

@ukipwarrior ok well what happens if you do need to use it and it was NOT free and you had to pay something stupid like 10,000 pounds for a broken arm???

[ukipwarrior]

@wrightmt01 It isnt FREE you tit we pay 70 billion a year for it!!

[wrightmt01]

@ukipwarrior yes we as a whole you pay next to nothing for it in comparison to america. In america you have to pay for everything. it cost my grandad 5,000 pounds for a minor operation

[pondman27]

reforms, bills and the entire destructive commercial construct that is literally killing the populace/

Want to save money in the NHS, stop allowing the pharmacidal corps from deploying their chemical and biological weaponry. Stop the vaccines and get those doctors to relearn healing arts.

The colour of politics is an illusion, same vile subversive agendas are underway.

Hospitals have become dangerous places to be taken into.

[bogart99]

@pondman27 what exactly are the healing arts?

[pondman27]

@bogart99 Oh dear, a boggart! No surprise to find the term an alien thing!

What does the name imply to you?

[bogart99]

@pondman27 Please don't answer a question with a question.

To me it means a system of medicine based on the idea of the four humours which was spurious rubbish born out of ignorance and like all quackery based in natural law ethics which is bad science, what I hope you mean is however a better doctor patient relationship leading to better prognosis. Could you answer my question now?

[pondman27]

@bogart99 To disregard so flippantly the insights of your own ancestors whilst too many aspects of the modern approved scientific view of the body is the ral quackery being forced upon the innocent a gullible.

To heal involves much much more then the understandings of such things as humours.

Doctors all to often today do not form the relationships they once did and many people are dying and suffering unnecessarily. It is bad science that produced thalidomide, ethyl mercury, fluoride etc., etc.

[MetaReaLizard]

Went to A&E with my daughter who hurt her ankle. There was one doctor who was cearly stretched to hell the waiting rooms were full to the brim ill and injured people haveing to stand for several hours... Wasn't like that under labour... in fact last time I remember it that bad was the Thatcherite years. Not that I am an ardent Labour supporter or anything. My daughter got a certificate and a Teddy bear though for being brave and patient? Sad when injured kids have to stand in corridors.

[FreddyTheJumpingCat]

@MetaReaLizard

I'm sorry for your daughter. But you're really clueless aren't you?

[MetaReaLizard]

@FreddyTheJumpingCat I think I keep myself pretty well informed in all honesty, so no would be the short answer to your question. I am simply presenting the facts; it is your choice how to interpret them. As I said, I am not a supporter of "New labour" or it's new format (whatever that is). I do believe in a collective responsibility for infrastructure; including health services, transportation et al. The current economic models and societal values require serious revision, first ofc.

[Sres1]

@MetaReaLizard took the wife to A&E during Labour times, we sat in the waiting room for 2hrs, young lad sat there with us, holding a bloody towel to his head, no clean swabs for the young lad. In those 2hrs his gash (would require stitches) healed up.

So don't give me that bullshit that it's Conservative's fault.

[MetaReaLizard]

@Sres1 Well in all honesty i'm a regular visitor to A&E as my wife has a kidney disorder that can often require emergency treatment... and her mother is a nurse with over 40 years experience... So I think i'll trust my insight is a bit more informed and free of bullshit than yours, thank you for your constructive input all the same.

[Sres1]

@MetaReaLizard I never discounted your event, I just said that it's not to do with Conservative values on the NHS, the NHS has always been the same.

The NHS does not change, it is the constant when politics changes, the NHS does not, it continues to suck money out of the system.

The NHS is a failed medical experiment that will eventually fail due to lack of money in the system. We are getting closer to that now with the current debt crisis.

[MetaReaLizard]

@Sres1 The private sector sucking money out with the corrupt "Contract Tendor" system and providing as little as they can legally get away with as a service is what drains the NHS. It is not a failed experiment at all... what is failed is privatisation of sectors that are not served by "competition", but in fact are inhibited. Collaboration and scale superceed competiion in this sector. The overall benefit to the economy of a healthy peopulace is obvious before any moral ethical argument.

[Sres1]

@MetaReaLizard Who set up the Contract Tendor system? Government? You have a system setup by the most corrupt of the corrupt, where self service is the only system that works, you scratch my back I'll get you in the door.

If the NHS was such a shining beacon of hope, why are more and more people going abroad for operations, why are new drugs not getting to patients, why do we have a postcode lottery, these are the failings of the NHS.

The NHS in it's current state does not work.

[MetaReaLizard]

@Sres1 Contract Tendor system was setup by a Neoliberal capitalist government. The problems you refer to with the NHS are the subsequent deterioration since such policies have been adopted. New drugs are not getting to patients because they are witheld through overpricing as a consequence of patent rights and the corrupt kickbacks made possible by the afforementioned system. I agree the NHS in it's current state does not work, as I said it need to be wrenched from the claws of private hands.

[Sres1]

@MetaReaLizard it's not in private hands though, it's in public hands, with private tendering.  All of the NHS's failings come from government & union meddling.

The NHS is sick it is the patient.

[MetaReaLizard]

@Sres1 other vital sectors have failed under privatisation also... Our railways are a joke, BP is an international embarrassment, gas and electricity has become a cartel monopoly who can not fail to make a profit and bribe the regulator who supposdedly protect us from their uncompetitive position. British steel has shrunk to insignificance. More iimportantly though is the jobs that have been shed and the damage a decaying infrastructure has done to our private manufacturing base.

[Sres1]

@MetaReaLizard The rail network was never fully privatized, it is still subsidised, ruled by union mobs.

Gas/elec all a cartel as you said, never fully released to the private sector, gov wanted to keep their grubby mitts on it.

BP are hardly an embarrassment, I'm sure you'll rely on them for your pension like the rest of us.

Primary & Secondary business was decimated by socialist belief that everyone is equal, here's a hint, they're not, there will always be poor ppl and always be rich ppl

[MetaReaLizard]

@Sres1 In reverse socialists don't believe in equal people they believe in egalitrainism in the most part. Pesnions are increasingly worthless.. I have sat on board meetings with BG and OFGEM it's a private cartel... the very nature of Energy transmission means it can not be opened to competition effectively and so requires regulation.. i.e.e it is nto suited to privatisation. Subsidisation is a product of the companies holding the government to ransom over jobs and maintenance.

[Sres1]

@MetaReaLizard egalitarianism or everyone is equal in every sense. This will never happen ever.

The problem with re-floating a nationalised service is all the horror that goes with it, aka the workers. Take the abomination that is Royal Mail that just won't die, essentially to privatise a system you need to complete destroy it and create a new from it. Royal Mail will eventually fail and other companies will take their place.

The same will happen to the NHS

[destinyson23]

Labour talking = Labour lying.