Why do I like virtues? Not because they're simpler, but because they guide us better than moral standards do.
Here's an example: with a moral code you have the do's and don'ts, while virtues have the be's and don't be's. But if you have yourself to where you have put a vice into your state of being, you will be more likely to do the donts even though you know its wrong.
Instead of trying to avoid the don't, you should be trying to avoid the dont be. And I think this makes things easier on us.
I like your description about how virtues are a guide, or a pathway in which it leads us in the proper direction. However, I think this description sounds a little more complicated then it needs to be.
I see virtues as a state of being (and I'm making that up yes). The state of being is an attitude towards a topic for example, and depending on what virtues or vices you may have you will respond differently.
You lost me at around 5.50. We don't exist for any grand purpose, there is no 'point' to anything in the universe. We exist because our parents created us, life is a by-product of mindless, natural circumstances, nothing more. I don't see the moral need to "propagate the species rather than to improve the lives of existing humans for it's own sake. Furthermore, the individual gene rather than the species is the basic unity of natural selection and my moral regard extends to non-human animals.
This dude is a genius, positive morals and optimal ethics are a life style. You mentioned real world effects, how will this help in any way with real world effects, the code of behaviour, for arguments sake, decorum, should be of a perpetually progressing society. But society is holding itself back by persecuting the young rather than persecuting the old, or rather persecuting for any reason. Hurting people shows a lack of empathy, which shows the deminishing quality of society.
I'm still at a loss how you can advocate virtue ethics and at the same time ignore the subjective moral dimension of lived ethical experience. Not to insult you, but you're coming at this from a rather bleak and nihilistic perspective. You seem to be relating ethics to a kind of naturalistic materialism and ignore the moral psychology and idealism present in ethical behavior. So I have trouble seeing how you can form a coherent ethical code or framework for virtuous conduct.. Just some thoughts.
And I'm at a loss to figure out what the hell you are talking about. "Subjective moral dimension of lived ethical experience?" "moral psychology and idealism?" Huh?
the difficult questions arise when virtues come into conflict, or when our incomplete knowledge makes it difficult to assess the proper course in a situation. for instance, if a crime is committed which redresses an injustice, is it right to interfere? worse, what is the correct action to take when one's truthful testimony would support or encourage injustice? obviously, specific situations will have specific responses, but not all are easily assessed.
When you talked about is it okay to kill at certain times. I would say no. I may do it if I had to save my life, but I think God would take you in favor if you let yourself die, and the sin be on the other, than kill to save yourself. Expecially if you truly believe that death is a transformation, and doesn't matter.
Thank you for the comment! My take on it is this: Virtue would direct me to defend myself. Duty requires me to defend my family, Justice would require that I fight injustice, etc. My faith is fairly strong, but not strong enough to lay down my life for it. I prefer faith in what is tangible.
I agree completely with you that we are impelled by some of the virtues (certainly not all of them) to take a stand for what we believe in, and in some cases impose our will or rather the will of the communities / tribes well being, on other people!
I had to back to Bluefirewitch's video as this is a reply to that. I've got to say this reply is wonderful reply to her. I agree with her about "elitism" and how it's wrong if that actually exists in the pagan community in reality, cause I have yet to see it. Course, I am new to youtube. All these different Pagan philosophies.. is almost overwhelming. But, CR just seems to make alot more sense for me in so many respects. Wicca, not so much, no offense to those Wiccans out there. Gods Blessings!
Of course, I agree with you about CR (otherwise, I wouldn't be one!) It is pretty overwhelming. It's amazing how much stuff is out there. And every time I think I am getting a handle on things, I find something that opens a whole new avenue of exploration, and the world just got that much bigger. I love it, though. :)
To some extent, at least, ethics do have to be imposed on you, don't they? It's immoral to murder, for example, and a moral rule against murder has to be imposed on us.
It just also seems to me that to the extent such imposition is TRULY moral, we don't mind. It's when the imposition is not moral that it really gets under our skin. That's my current working hypothesis, anyways.
Right! I totally agree with you. I really dislike the idea behind ethics because of what you said and more. I feel that ethics is - like external guidelines that other people put on me/the world.
I'm not too sure if my state of spirituality is subject to that kind of bs. My spirituality should be up to my inner self, my boundries, my interpretations. Not other people's - who 7 times out of 10, know nothing about *me*, much less care about me. Virtues are totally personal to a certain degree, dependent on the self rather than the macrocosm of "the state". I'm down with you.
Why do I like virtues? Not because they're simpler, but because they guide us better than moral standards do.
Here's an example: with a moral code you have the do's and don'ts, while virtues have the be's and don't be's. But if you have yourself to where you have put a vice into your state of being, you will be more likely to do the donts even though you know its wrong.
Instead of trying to avoid the don't, you should be trying to avoid the dont be. And I think this makes things easier on us.
nazra7 1 year ago
I like your description about how virtues are a guide, or a pathway in which it leads us in the proper direction. However, I think this description sounds a little more complicated then it needs to be.
I see virtues as a state of being (and I'm making that up yes). The state of being is an attitude towards a topic for example, and depending on what virtues or vices you may have you will respond differently.
nazra7 1 year ago
You lost me at around 5.50. We don't exist for any grand purpose, there is no 'point' to anything in the universe. We exist because our parents created us, life is a by-product of mindless, natural circumstances, nothing more. I don't see the moral need to "propagate the species rather than to improve the lives of existing humans for it's own sake. Furthermore, the individual gene rather than the species is the basic unity of natural selection and my moral regard extends to non-human animals.
AfricanPrince 2 years ago
This dude is a genius, positive morals and optimal ethics are a life style. You mentioned real world effects, how will this help in any way with real world effects, the code of behaviour, for arguments sake, decorum, should be of a perpetually progressing society. But society is holding itself back by persecuting the young rather than persecuting the old, or rather persecuting for any reason. Hurting people shows a lack of empathy, which shows the deminishing quality of society.
boss1dave 2 years ago
"I intend to do a series of videos on specific virtues,..
PLEASE DON'T!
Have you no shame?!!
Mobilecheese 3 years ago
No. No shame at all. And I intend to force you to watch EVERY SINGLE ONE! BWA HAHA!
fiacharrey 3 years ago
Oh......ok ,then .....bwaak buk buk bwaaaaak!
LOL
Mobilecheese 3 years ago
Empty your mind and eat air!
Mobilecheese 3 years ago
Correction:
"Empty your mind and eat time"!
Mobilecheese 3 years ago
Why do you pseuds insist on trying to intellectualize the fucking obvious?
Who exactly are you trying to impress with this bilious mumbo-jumbo nonsense?
Mobilecheese 3 years ago
Not particularly trying to impress anyone. It usually surprises me that anyone IS impressed, but some are.
And why? Why do some people collect stamps? Why do people like cats instead of dogs? Who knows? .... and what is a "pseud?"
fiacharrey 3 years ago
Wankers! Wischer!
Mobilecheese 3 years ago
I'm still at a loss how you can advocate virtue ethics and at the same time ignore the subjective moral dimension of lived ethical experience. Not to insult you, but you're coming at this from a rather bleak and nihilistic perspective. You seem to be relating ethics to a kind of naturalistic materialism and ignore the moral psychology and idealism present in ethical behavior. So I have trouble seeing how you can form a coherent ethical code or framework for virtuous conduct.. Just some thoughts.
TRAGlCHERO 3 years ago
And I'm at a loss to figure out what the hell you are talking about. "Subjective moral dimension of lived ethical experience?" "moral psychology and idealism?" Huh?
fiacharrey 3 years ago
Subjective (first person)
moral (ethical conduct)
dimension (a property of)
lived (living a life)
ethical (right/wrong-good/bad)
experience (an event you live through)
moral psychology (the study of moral development)
idealism (ideals, ideas, values - how you 'ought to be' rather than how things 'are')
TRAGlCHERO 3 years ago
That's nice. How about... oh, I don't know... plain English?
fiacharrey 3 years ago
I agree with tragichero and cannot find anything that was constructed to obfuscate or anything that was otherwise unclear in his writing.
SidedPanic 3 years ago
I guess I'm just dense, then. I still have little idea what he means.
fiacharrey 3 years ago
Nice cut and paste job!
Mobilecheese 3 years ago
the difficult questions arise when virtues come into conflict, or when our incomplete knowledge makes it difficult to assess the proper course in a situation. for instance, if a crime is committed which redresses an injustice, is it right to interfere? worse, what is the correct action to take when one's truthful testimony would support or encourage injustice? obviously, specific situations will have specific responses, but not all are easily assessed.
whateley23 3 years ago
When you talked about is it okay to kill at certain times. I would say no. I may do it if I had to save my life, but I think God would take you in favor if you let yourself die, and the sin be on the other, than kill to save yourself. Expecially if you truly believe that death is a transformation, and doesn't matter.
Pressence101 3 years ago
Thank you for the comment! My take on it is this: Virtue would direct me to defend myself. Duty requires me to defend my family, Justice would require that I fight injustice, etc. My faith is fairly strong, but not strong enough to lay down my life for it. I prefer faith in what is tangible.
fiacharrey 3 years ago
at 3:36 there's a face in the mountain. I wonder if that's a natural formation?
Pressence101 3 years ago
I agree completely with you that we are impelled by some of the virtues (certainly not all of them) to take a stand for what we believe in, and in some cases impose our will or rather the will of the communities / tribes well being, on other people!
Cadell02 3 years ago
I had to back to Bluefirewitch's video as this is a reply to that. I've got to say this reply is wonderful reply to her. I agree with her about "elitism" and how it's wrong if that actually exists in the pagan community in reality, cause I have yet to see it. Course, I am new to youtube. All these different Pagan philosophies.. is almost overwhelming. But, CR just seems to make alot more sense for me in so many respects. Wicca, not so much, no offense to those Wiccans out there. Gods Blessings!
HergerSeamas 3 years ago
Of course, I agree with you about CR (otherwise, I wouldn't be one!) It is pretty overwhelming. It's amazing how much stuff is out there. And every time I think I am getting a handle on things, I find something that opens a whole new avenue of exploration, and the world just got that much bigger. I love it, though. :)
fiacharrey 3 years ago
Btw, Your FAQ website has helped me greatly!
HergerSeamas 3 years ago
To some extent, at least, ethics do have to be imposed on you, don't they? It's immoral to murder, for example, and a moral rule against murder has to be imposed on us.
It just also seems to me that to the extent such imposition is TRULY moral, we don't mind. It's when the imposition is not moral that it really gets under our skin. That's my current working hypothesis, anyways.
fiacharrey 4 years ago
Right! I totally agree with you. I really dislike the idea behind ethics because of what you said and more. I feel that ethics is - like external guidelines that other people put on me/the world.
pansgrove 4 years ago
I'm not too sure if my state of spirituality is subject to that kind of bs. My spirituality should be up to my inner self, my boundries, my interpretations. Not other people's - who 7 times out of 10, know nothing about *me*, much less care about me. Virtues are totally personal to a certain degree, dependent on the self rather than the macrocosm of "the state". I'm down with you.
pansgrove 4 years ago
Very Good points
I liked the idea of virtues over morals
sinfultictac 4 years ago