Nice hit. Jagr got caught in a rare moment with his head down, but I would take Jagr any day of the week. And I have to say he gets a bad rap for being a pussy but it seemed to me he scored a lot of timely goals and didn't complain about or draw calls nearly as much as guys like Crosby or the Sedins.
@OneBloodOneGame atleast jagr won 2 stanley cups, i wish sundin had left the leafs earlier and won himself a cup he rly deserved it, but w.e he is still the greatest player to every play for the largest hockey market in the world lol guess thts decent
that title is nice .. "crybaby" he is not a fighter and i'm fucking pretty sure he will kill your fat ass anytime he wants .. you don't know about hockey much do you? how the fuck you can measure defence guy against C or L/RW ? and also show me 1 picture or video when jagr crying in the ice ....
Jagr is better than all the overrated swedish piece of shit players combined. I bet next you swedish idiots are going to say that Henrik Lundqvist is as good as Dominik Hašek. xD
Wtf?? Jagr isn't a crybaby. That was a good hit by Sundin though. Did you see Jagr get hit by Ovechkin in this year's olympic's?? He got up like a boss!!
these days some good would have stood tall and given a shoulder to the face when they could easily go shoulder to body and lay someone out the proper way.
he was sketchy watch any of his moves it looks like he has terrets you like at datsyuk and his is one fliud motion jagr is like watching someone twitch through a toe drag he does them as if someone is taking a stop motion video on him they look bad
datsyuk has never even led the league in points and has zero mvp trophies. hes never led the league in goalscoring either. who cares if the limited amount of highlights he has on youtube arent as fluid as datsyuk.
think about iginla nash kovalchuk kane oshie lecalvier bure st louis they all are fluid skaters and have led the league in points......jagr is not that good hes like crosby hes meh good some nights and other nights useless
shawn1331... oshie has not led the league in points #1. #2 Crosby is better than iginla, kovalchuk, kane, lecavalier, bure and st louis. Jagr is better than everyone you mentioned in your post by a lot. usefulness is not measured in how fluid some of your dangles are.
1#oshie led junoir his whole life almost.2# crosby is useless the bitch won't even fight he can't hit he is not good anyone can skate and shoot but you have to be able to fight and hit to do good so go ahead and say the ones i mentioned are pussy but i don't think you would take on chara(lecavalier) but why waste my time your obviously a bias hockey nut stuck in the glory days of an aging player
look shawno jagr scored 123 pts 4 years ago. pretty sure oshie wont be touching that. anyways its pretty obvious youre a bit young so i say hey man enjoy the sport and lets leave it at that
The Red Wings are my favorite team but I have to disagree with you. Jagr is the greatest deker of all-time. Datysuk is a VERY close 2nd, followed by Hemsky.
Howe is a little overrated IMO. I think I would put Howe at #9 when it comes to all-time forwards. I'd put Esposito and Yzerman right after Jagr and then Howe after that.
nah kid big mistake. Howe has 6 mvps, 6 art rosses and led the league in goals 5 times. people make the mistake of thinking hey he played 25 years hes a compiler. wrong bucko the 100pt barrier was broken by howe, esposito and another guy im forgetting in 1968. he was 40 then. the guy was without a doubt the best player in the league for over a decade, which frankly is astonishing. he was never as dominant as lemieux or gretz but he was close.
Howe was really good, don't get me wrong, but I think there were 8 forwards that were better. Yes howe had some reall GOOD seasons, but he lacked even that single great season. I only put him at #9 because of his long and consistant career, but really, he never had a single really great season and he's overrated simply because of his career point and goal totals.
No no no, that's what I'm trying to tell you. His MVPs are proof he had at least 6 great seasons. He didn't rack up 1800+ points playing in the 70s 80s or even 90s. He was doing it when 70pts won you the scoring title, ie lower scoring years. Messier is not in the conversation because he has a few more points than gordie playing in the extremely high scoring 80s and early 90s. The same is not true of Howe. He was the elite player of his generation.
just because those were lower scoring years, doesn't mean it was harder to score.
goalies and defenseman were much bigger/stronger, faster and smarter in the 80's than they were when Howe played. Howe didn't score more points only because he wasn't good enough to... not because it was harder to score.
Wrongo. the depth in the 1950s was staggering. there were only six teams, even without europeans the depth of the league at that time has yet to be matched. plus there were fewer games played. additionally howe won scoring races by significant margins, indicating how dominant he was. of course he couldnt dominant today, theres been 40 years of innovation in techniques/equipment. dominance over peers is the only way to measure a players greatness.
yes exactly, domination over peers. and of course I realize there weren't as many games played, but even his points per game where all that great. and I'm not knocking him, he was good, but look at the 8 players I have ahead of him. how can you argue that he was better than those guys? I just don't put him as the 2nd best forward of all-time like most ppl do.
I could careless about mvp's. all I could say is, each of those guys ahead of Howe have had MANY seasons better than Howe's best season.
and putting richards and mikita ahead of bossy is beyond ridiculous. and that is just one of the many things wrong with your rankings. I think your ranking has more to do with star power than it does actual accomplishments.
but anyways, to each their own. we both have different ways of looking at rankings.
well... mvps are given to the best player everyyear. judging a season by stats is useful, if youre dealing with years close to each other and similar circumstances. howe won scoring races by significant margins, and domination vs your peers is pretty much the only way to judge greatness for me, at least to a degree. Bossy was a great goalscorer, but how many times was he the best player in the league?
@GregGumbel yeah but you have to look at who Bossy had to contend with. early in his career, Lafleur and Dionne were ruling the league, and later in his career, Gretzky ruled the league. Howe didn't have great players like that to compete against.
Once again, we look at rankings differently. I don't look at mvp's, scoring titles or championships when I make my rankings. I just look at the numbers for the players at the peak of their careers. Howe just sin't that good IMO.
you should probably look that up before you present it as fact. He won several by margins of 20 or better, in a lower scoring league. the only guys that have won scoring titles by larger percentages were named Gretzky and Lemieux. so...?
@GregGumbel once again, margin of victory shouldn't matter because you have to consider who his competition was. as years go on, it becomes more and more difficult to score against evolving defenses and goalies... and even still, players who came after Howe, were able to score at a higher rate than him. Howe is top 10 but not top 3. and you stil have to explain why Bossy isn't in your top 10.
no youre dealing in anachronisms. defenses evolve and goaltenders improve but... so do offensive schemes, tricks, etc. it goes both ways. again, his competition was 5 other teams with the best talent in north america, and again, when there was expansion howe, in his40s, promptly scored 100pts. Like i said, it's nice to look at Bossy's goal totals(especially gpg) but he was only the best goal scorer in the league for a brief time. relegating a guy like bossy to 11 or 12 is not an insult to him.
@GregGumbel not putting Bossy in the top 10 is an insult to him IMO. and stop using big fancy words :P
and Bossy played 10 seasons in the NHL. thats more than enough to rate him. 7 of those 10 seasons he scored AT LEAST 117 pts and 9 of those seasons he had 50+ goals with 5 of those seasons being 60+ goals. Bossy's accomplishments were just to sick to not have him in the top 10 all-time forwards. you need to recheck that ranking man.
oh god, plz don't tell me you think Howe is a better goal scorer too? man, i feel you're not learning anything from these discussions. I feel like all this is in vain. you just refuse to be enlightened.
its pretty close in terms of goalscoring, but even if you give the nod to bossy howe is still the superior playmaker by a fair margin. i think youll find most hockey historians will rate howe higher than bossy pretty much universally.
yes, most hockey historians like to favor older generations. Thats why I'm here, to put things into perspective. Can't favor a player who didn't score at a high rate at a time when it should have been easier to score.
most historians like to favor the players who were the most dominant in their era. "it should have been easier to score"? what does that even mean in the context of howe's career? it became easier to score when the talent pool became more diluted with expansion. howe was playing against the best 100 players in the world (barring some soviets) night in and night out. Bossy's goal scoring numbers are pretty but he played in a higher scoring era. its not hard to understand
@GregGumbel oh and I Howe is not that much better of a playmaker than bossy. he might be a notch better, but I would say its a fair margin. Bossy was the better player overall.
@GregGumbel I'm sorry to say, but when I look at your list, it really looks random, other than Lemieux and Gretzky at 1 and 2. I don't understand what your ranking is based on.
and no Bossy in your top 10 forwards? thats beyond ridiculous.
pucko is right, who is a better leader? u could say i'm biased since i'm a huge mats sundin fan but if u want more proof, look at what all the players say about him. when mats retired, all i heard nhl players and coaches say was he was a great leader and showed great class. i respect jagr but i don't think he can lead a team like mats can.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
If you honestly think Sundin is better then Jagr then you know absolutley nothing about hockey. Apparently pucko is a huge Maple Leafs fan, and man does that team suck
I'm not a maple leafs fan at all, I'm a Mats Sundin fan, I also have huge respect for Jagr but if i were to build a team around any of those two players 15 years ago, I would pick Sundin any day.
@pucko13 really? maybe thats why the leafs suck, since jagr had 5 scoring titles, a hart trophy, a lester b. pearson award, and 2 stanley cups, while sundin, has..... none of that
@pucko13 a sundin fan but not a leafs fan? youre either from the toronto area, your swedish or you know great hockey players or all of the above lol either way im a huge sundin fan
@pucko13 I don't want to be "that" guy.. But as a die hard leafs fan, i would agree with you possibly in the perspective that Sundin was a better captain than Jagr, hands down.. But as a player, Jagr completely outclasses Sundin. (my opinion) However i would take Gilmour over either ;).
btw anyone's allowed to like a team... i like the leafs indeed but so what and yes they really DO SUCK but i like them cuz there my local team for example
Oh...so what YOU are saying is that pucko13 doesn´t know anything about hockey just because he likes Sundin better than Jagr? Maple Leafs got one hell of a history behind them and is now the most valuable team in NHL. Don´t you think that has something to do with there capacity lol?
@purple0wnzx that was the weakest comback ive ever heard... they are the team with the longest playoffless streak. by the way thanks for seguin hell be an asset to the bruins dynasty to come the next decade
@TheGreenMonsta43 we had like 5 players who hat 55+ pts the rest wernt to far behind go chirp st louis i here they have a decent record w/o the cup too and same with other teams and before chicago won the cup they had a worse record then the leafs.
@fishdevil77 There's no question that Jagr was a more gifted player than Sundin, but he never went anywhere in the playoffs without Lemieux and the year the Czechs won gold at the Olympics, it was all Hasek. Jagr was the type of guy that would score 6 points when his team won 8-2 but would be shut out when you really needed him, he even admitted himself, he hates being on the ice during the last minute of a one goal game. To take Sundin over Jagr isn't as crazy as it sounds.
WTF SUNDIN IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN JAGR! WTF U TALKING BOUT! First of all, Jagr is a moneybitch gone to KHL for money by the corrupt Russians. He also moved to a better club and all just for win and money. Sundin stayed in Toronto all his NHL-career and just finished in Vancouver to have ONE shot at the cup. Now if Sundin would have played in the Pens or Rangers, HE WOULD HAVE DONE SOOOO MUCH MORE POINTS THAN JAGR!
Jagr's one of the best wingers of all time. Some people go by reputation but if you've followed his career more closely you know he's been clutch and actually carried the Pens in a number of playoff series. Sometimes a diva, but also a warrior at times.
Btw, don't got the exact numbers but I think he's among the all time highs in GWGs and OT goals.
I'm Swedish but there's no way I can say Sundin was better than Jagr.
Jagr was better because he got more goals assists and points and neither was a 2 way player and jagr absolutely dominated offensively like no european before, however Mats was A MUCH BETTER PERSON
Jagr wasn't clutch JimB667? He only scored the tying goal and game winner in overtime of game 6 against the Devils in '99 with a bad groin that severly limited his ice time and skating. He only scored the game tying goal with seconds left on the clock in game 1 of the '92 cup finals against the Blackhawks that led to Mario's game winning goal and eventual sweep of the series. No he wasn't clutch at all. I'm sure he has more clutch playoff goals in one season than Sundin has in his career.
hahaha Jagr is better than Sundin. He has more goals, more points and the added bonus of 2 Cups on his resume. He may be a head case but as a hockey player, I'd take Jagr in his prime over Sundin and day of the week.
Oh and Crosby's better that Sundin also, maybe someday when you jealous and bitter, hating punks get a clue you'll figure it out too. The Leafs couldn't do it with Sundin as captain but Crosby at only 21 captains the Pens to a cup.
You need to get off Jagrs dick bro. He is not as good as Sundin. Sundin was way more consistent and way more clutch than Jagr could ever wish to be. Sundin was a born leader, Jagr was not. Look at all of Sundins Gold Medals... Sundin scored many game tying goals in the playoffs with under 1 mins left. And who said anything about Crosby? I never said Crosby was not better. Stay on topic
yeah absolutely and Sundin has quit as well and has started to play poker heh but sure, both players are pretty old. But it's no age comparing to Chelios or Fetisov for that matter :/
of course Jagr in his prime was more skilled than Mats. Jags just wasn't in this series, and pretty much any playoff game he played in NY was a write off. Both players brought different things to the table. Mats was a clutch goal scorer and motivator - something Jagr was not.
I just don't think these two can be compared. Jagr obviously put up bigger offensive numbers, but Sundin was a far better player in terms of physical presence and leadership. Simply saying one is "better" is useless. Both great players, one of which happened to get absolutely rocked by the other in this video.
Yeah, I bet that talking about sweden Finland in hockey would hurt you to much! ;)
I agree with you, jagr was a better player than Sundin. jagr was almost as good as Peter Foppa Forsberg in his prime. He was a tard bit better at scoring goals but lacked Forsbergs all around abilities. Forsberg was one of the best two -way players in the league, perhaps the greatest passer and had marvelous puck handling tecniq combines with a strong and physical gameplay!
crybaby jagr? i think your mistaking him for sidney crosby
jeffhardy009wwe 3 months ago
Have Sundin won 5 Art Ross trophies? I don't think so...
TheLastDuckStanding 4 months ago
which one won the stanley?
Guinnesss94527 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
sundin is fucking noob, without brain the opposit of Jagr
SKAYPER007 5 months ago
Comment removed
SKAYPER007 5 months ago
its a pretty good video seeing as it was filmed on a calculator
phreddy87 5 months ago 3
Sundin even let-up on that hit...should've went right through him.
ieas29 5 months ago
He could have murdered Jagr too...He layed up a cause its another legend
prozachary 5 months ago
if i had a dollar for every pixel in this video id have one dollar
penquinngvh 6 months ago 9
maybe sundin should try crying....he might of got a cup.
giorgim24 6 months ago 3
@giorgim24 you're probably the stupidest person ive seen on the internet
p4t4r2 6 months ago
@p4t4r2 coming from the kid who thinks "stupidest" is a word
jeffhardy009wwe 3 months ago
@jeffhardy009wwe it is, you idiot.
p4t4r2 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@p4t4r2 its actualy "you're probably the MOST stupid person ive seen on the internet" "idiot"
jeffhardy009wwe 3 months ago
Was this recorded with a camera of sub-par quality?
hockey389 7 months ago
Did you record this with a cheese grater?
Xplisit23 7 months ago
Was this recorded by or from a rock?
BubbaBodecker 7 months ago
Nice hit. Jagr got caught in a rare moment with his head down, but I would take Jagr any day of the week. And I have to say he gets a bad rap for being a pussy but it seemed to me he scored a lot of timely goals and didn't complain about or draw calls nearly as much as guys like Crosby or the Sedins.
Luftwaffel 7 months ago
was this recorded off a commodore 64?
tjackson76 8 months ago
did u record this with a fucking potato?
ripDerekBoogaard 8 months ago
jagr and sundin ? who is better, of course Jagr, this wasn't fair
rolpit21 8 months ago 3
Was this recorded off an NES?
burningfarts 8 months ago
sundin had the best clapper of all time
sightlines 10 months ago
does this remind u of jagr and ovechkin??? i duno haha
DougyKeithMusic 11 months ago
Wowwwww all of you are fools. Both players are totally epic in their own way and I shouldn't even have to explain that -_-
vrambo 11 months ago
The quality reminds me of Sega Genesis.
nyr9teen9d4 11 months ago 12
Jagr > sundin
IAmNikoo 1 year ago
@IAmNikoo jagr < shit
carrollshelby222 11 months ago
Fuck yea, thats a hip. hit em low, right in the body
DrKanada 1 year ago
sundin is a million times better leader then jagr no question. jagr is obviously better offensively, but wtf did he do in th e playoffs?
OneBloodOneGame 1 year ago
@OneBloodOneGame atleast jagr won 2 stanley cups, i wish sundin had left the leafs earlier and won himself a cup he rly deserved it, but w.e he is still the greatest player to every play for the largest hockey market in the world lol guess thts decent
ILockItDown 1 year ago
@ILockItDown yea hes a HOf no doubt
OneBloodOneGame 1 year ago
Sundin is one of the greats made me sad when they said he wouldn't be playing with the leafs anymore...
GameConsoleJunkie 1 year ago
that title is nice .. "crybaby" he is not a fighter and i'm fucking pretty sure he will kill your fat ass anytime he wants .. you don't know about hockey much do you? how the fuck you can measure defence guy against C or L/RW ? and also show me 1 picture or video when jagr crying in the ice ....
Omgwtfimcow 1 year ago
@Omgwtfimcow Did you ever watch Jagr play? He was brilliant offensively, yes, but he was a bitch.
Zxceelxuz 11 months ago 2
Jagr was good at being a puss from lemieux now it's crosby see the pattern
OriginalKlutch 1 year ago
this game was on supernes?
tonybelf 1 year ago
What is the song being played or chanted towards the end?
DarkApocalypse 1 year ago
SUNDIN 1 of the best hockey players ever =P
kentbelly 1 year ago
jagr is shit!!!
carrollshelby222 1 year ago
@carrollshelby222
Jagr is better than all the overrated swedish piece of shit players combined. I bet next you swedish idiots are going to say that Henrik Lundqvist is as good as Dominik Hašek. xD
ss90ss444 1 year ago
@ss90ss444 maybe not as good as hasek when he was younger, but def almost as good.
and for overrated Swedish piece of shit players, Mats definitely wasn't in that area
Spammmz 1 year ago
@ss90ss444 first of all, most of the ppl on here are american or canadian and mats sundin is not overrated at all. jagr might be
DanGuitar9 1 year ago
sundin was the best leaf in a very long time, if not ever.
the majority of the pundits and hosts hated him though, because he was european
Unbannable 1 year ago
@Unbannable gilmour was better
DanGuitar9 1 year ago
Jarda is legend
CHIMERA259 1 year ago
owned
tfare10 1 year ago
Wtf?? Jagr isn't a crybaby. That was a good hit by Sundin though. Did you see Jagr get hit by Ovechkin in this year's olympic's?? He got up like a boss!!
vrambo 1 year ago
this is how you throw a BODY check.
these days some good would have stood tall and given a shoulder to the face when they could easily go shoulder to body and lay someone out the proper way.
SuperColossal33 1 year ago
Oops ... Did someone hit 100kg Swedish steel? xD
Jagr=Pussy!!
Thrudwang 1 year ago 2
shut up Jaromir Jagr is freakin amazin and not a pussy
breakoutrulz 1 year ago
@breakoutrulz
Tssss.... He´s gay!
Overrated loser...
Thrudwang 1 year ago
i remember this game
higherness 2 years ago
jagr sucks
Pensrock8729 2 years ago
jag is the best hockey playa ever
313deny313 2 years ago
nej jag
Danne5897 2 years ago
@313deny313 Evidently he isn't or else he would hold all the records considering he played in a time when Gretzky did.
Hell if both of them played in the same time the likes of Bobby Orr and Gordie Howe did Gretzky wouldn't hold the records.
Fazed2113 1 year ago
JAGR IS A FUCKING PUSSY
xVShowTeKVx 2 years ago
jagr isnt really a crybaby cuz of this, that was an open, clean and har hit by mats sundin!
wickenoftheklicken 2 years ago
:D Skate with your head up. Jagr sure got a good look at his pass, not at Mats.
watro1 2 years ago
Jagr is one of the top 20 players to ever play in the NHL. Whine about intangibles all you want he's the superior player.
GregGumbel 2 years ago 3
alrite fag it doesnt change the fact he got shit on here
cjp0074 2 years ago
@GregGumbel Awesome comment
whys0seri0us19 2 years ago
he was sketchy watch any of his moves it looks like he has terrets you like at datsyuk and his is one fliud motion jagr is like watching someone twitch through a toe drag he does them as if someone is taking a stop motion video on him they look bad
shawn1331 2 years ago
datsyuk has never even led the league in points and has zero mvp trophies. hes never led the league in goalscoring either. who cares if the limited amount of highlights he has on youtube arent as fluid as datsyuk.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
think about iginla nash kovalchuk kane oshie lecalvier bure st louis they all are fluid skaters and have led the league in points......jagr is not that good hes like crosby hes meh good some nights and other nights useless
shawn1331 2 years ago
shawn1331... oshie has not led the league in points #1. #2 Crosby is better than iginla, kovalchuk, kane, lecavalier, bure and st louis. Jagr is better than everyone you mentioned in your post by a lot. usefulness is not measured in how fluid some of your dangles are.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
1#oshie led junoir his whole life almost.2# crosby is useless the bitch won't even fight he can't hit he is not good anyone can skate and shoot but you have to be able to fight and hit to do good so go ahead and say the ones i mentioned are pussy but i don't think you would take on chara(lecavalier) but why waste my time your obviously a bias hockey nut stuck in the glory days of an aging player
shawn1331 2 years ago
look shawno jagr scored 123 pts 4 years ago. pretty sure oshie wont be touching that. anyways its pretty obvious youre a bit young so i say hey man enjoy the sport and lets leave it at that
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@shawn1331
The Red Wings are my favorite team but I have to disagree with you. Jagr is the greatest deker of all-time. Datysuk is a VERY close 2nd, followed by Hemsky.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
@ GregGumbel
IMO Jagr is a top 6 forward all-time. Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy, Dione, Lafleur and then Jagr.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
good list but howe needs to be there
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel
Howe is a little overrated IMO. I think I would put Howe at #9 when it comes to all-time forwards. I'd put Esposito and Yzerman right after Jagr and then Howe after that.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
Comment removed
GregGumbel 2 years ago
nah kid big mistake. Howe has 6 mvps, 6 art rosses and led the league in goals 5 times. people make the mistake of thinking hey he played 25 years hes a compiler. wrong bucko the 100pt barrier was broken by howe, esposito and another guy im forgetting in 1968. he was 40 then. the guy was without a doubt the best player in the league for over a decade, which frankly is astonishing. he was never as dominant as lemieux or gretz but he was close.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel
Howe was really good, don't get me wrong, but I think there were 8 forwards that were better. Yes howe had some reall GOOD seasons, but he lacked even that single great season. I only put him at #9 because of his long and consistant career, but really, he never had a single really great season and he's overrated simply because of his career point and goal totals.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
No no no, that's what I'm trying to tell you. His MVPs are proof he had at least 6 great seasons. He didn't rack up 1800+ points playing in the 70s 80s or even 90s. He was doing it when 70pts won you the scoring title, ie lower scoring years. Messier is not in the conversation because he has a few more points than gordie playing in the extremely high scoring 80s and early 90s. The same is not true of Howe. He was the elite player of his generation.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel
just because those were lower scoring years, doesn't mean it was harder to score.
goalies and defenseman were much bigger/stronger, faster and smarter in the 80's than they were when Howe played. Howe didn't score more points only because he wasn't good enough to... not because it was harder to score.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
Wrongo. the depth in the 1950s was staggering. there were only six teams, even without europeans the depth of the league at that time has yet to be matched. plus there were fewer games played. additionally howe won scoring races by significant margins, indicating how dominant he was. of course he couldnt dominant today, theres been 40 years of innovation in techniques/equipment. dominance over peers is the only way to measure a players greatness.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel
yes exactly, domination over peers. and of course I realize there weren't as many games played, but even his points per game where all that great. and I'm not knocking him, he was good, but look at the 8 players I have ahead of him. how can you argue that he was better than those guys? I just don't put him as the 2nd best forward of all-time like most ppl do.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
i dunno something about 6 mvps. not to be rude but putting any of those guys ahead of howe just illustrates that you do not know very much about him.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel
I could careless about mvp's. all I could say is, each of those guys ahead of Howe have had MANY seasons better than Howe's best season.
and putting richards and mikita ahead of bossy is beyond ridiculous. and that is just one of the many things wrong with your rankings. I think your ranking has more to do with star power than it does actual accomplishments.
but anyways, to each their own. we both have different ways of looking at rankings.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
well... mvps are given to the best player everyyear. judging a season by stats is useful, if youre dealing with years close to each other and similar circumstances. howe won scoring races by significant margins, and domination vs your peers is pretty much the only way to judge greatness for me, at least to a degree. Bossy was a great goalscorer, but how many times was he the best player in the league?
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel yeah but you have to look at who Bossy had to contend with. early in his career, Lafleur and Dionne were ruling the league, and later in his career, Gretzky ruled the league. Howe didn't have great players like that to compete against.
Once again, we look at rankings differently. I don't look at mvp's, scoring titles or championships when I make my rankings. I just look at the numbers for the players at the peak of their careers. Howe just sin't that good IMO.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
@GregGumbel and since when did Howe tear up the league? he didn't really win scoring titles by large margins.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
you should probably look that up before you present it as fact. He won several by margins of 20 or better, in a lower scoring league. the only guys that have won scoring titles by larger percentages were named Gretzky and Lemieux. so...?
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel once again, margin of victory shouldn't matter because you have to consider who his competition was. as years go on, it becomes more and more difficult to score against evolving defenses and goalies... and even still, players who came after Howe, were able to score at a higher rate than him. Howe is top 10 but not top 3. and you stil have to explain why Bossy isn't in your top 10.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
no youre dealing in anachronisms. defenses evolve and goaltenders improve but... so do offensive schemes, tricks, etc. it goes both ways. again, his competition was 5 other teams with the best talent in north america, and again, when there was expansion howe, in his40s, promptly scored 100pts. Like i said, it's nice to look at Bossy's goal totals(especially gpg) but he was only the best goal scorer in the league for a brief time. relegating a guy like bossy to 11 or 12 is not an insult to him.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel not putting Bossy in the top 10 is an insult to him IMO. and stop using big fancy words :P
and Bossy played 10 seasons in the NHL. thats more than enough to rate him. 7 of those 10 seasons he scored AT LEAST 117 pts and 9 of those seasons he had 50+ goals with 5 of those seasons being 60+ goals. Bossy's accomplishments were just to sick to not have him in the top 10 all-time forwards. you need to recheck that ranking man.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
i will respectfully disagree but its been nice chatting to a fellow hockey fan.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel
Bossy > Howe
I want to see you say it.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
Howe makes Bossy look somewhat average. 6 MVPs outweigh none. 5 goal scoring titles outweigh 2. It's not even close really.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel
oh god, plz don't tell me you think Howe is a better goal scorer too? man, i feel you're not learning anything from these discussions. I feel like all this is in vain. you just refuse to be enlightened.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
its pretty close in terms of goalscoring, but even if you give the nod to bossy howe is still the superior playmaker by a fair margin. i think youll find most hockey historians will rate howe higher than bossy pretty much universally.
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel
yes, most hockey historians like to favor older generations. Thats why I'm here, to put things into perspective. Can't favor a player who didn't score at a high rate at a time when it should have been easier to score.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
most historians like to favor the players who were the most dominant in their era. "it should have been easier to score"? what does that even mean in the context of howe's career? it became easier to score when the talent pool became more diluted with expansion. howe was playing against the best 100 players in the world (barring some soviets) night in and night out. Bossy's goal scoring numbers are pretty but he played in a higher scoring era. its not hard to understand
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel oh and I Howe is not that much better of a playmaker than bossy. he might be a notch better, but I would say its a fair margin. Bossy was the better player overall.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
rofl you are so wrong
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel
1. Gretzky
2. Lemieux
3. Bossy
4. Dionne
5. Lafleur
6. Jagr
7. Yzerman
8. Esposito
9. Howe
kswizzy99 2 years ago
1. gretz
2. lemieux
3. howe
4. bobby hull
5. beliveau
6. mikita
7. richard
8. lafleur
9. clarke
10. jagr
GregGumbel 2 years ago
@GregGumbel I'm sorry to say, but when I look at your list, it really looks random, other than Lemieux and Gretzky at 1 and 2. I don't understand what your ranking is based on.
and no Bossy in your top 10 forwards? thats beyond ridiculous.
kswizzy99 2 years ago
dont worry, im scratching my head at some of yours as well. different strokes for different folks
GregGumbel 2 years ago
if you guys think that jagr is a crybaby because of that hhit then ur wrong... when u get hit in the chest in the right spot u cant breathe at all
snakegotgrenades95 2 years ago 14
Perfect example of why you should keep your haed up.
henkestenke 2 years ago 29
pucko is right, who is a better leader? u could say i'm biased since i'm a huge mats sundin fan but if u want more proof, look at what all the players say about him. when mats retired, all i heard nhl players and coaches say was he was a great leader and showed great class. i respect jagr but i don't think he can lead a team like mats can.
raptorleaf 2 years ago
late i l;ike the rangers but jagr suked except 4 1 year with nyr
25NYRlover 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If you honestly think Sundin is better then Jagr then you know absolutley nothing about hockey. Apparently pucko is a huge Maple Leafs fan, and man does that team suck
fishdevil77 2 years ago
I'm not a maple leafs fan at all, I'm a Mats Sundin fan, I also have huge respect for Jagr but if i were to build a team around any of those two players 15 years ago, I would pick Sundin any day.
pucko13 2 years ago 31
ahah well that makes it better....sorry jagr is just one notch higher than sundin! plus hes got 2 cups
amirjon 2 years ago
@pucko13 really? maybe thats why the leafs suck, since jagr had 5 scoring titles, a hart trophy, a lester b. pearson award, and 2 stanley cups, while sundin, has..... none of that
AnaheimDucks39 1 year ago
really........ thats the most fucked thing i ever heard
sonrac1 1 year ago
@pucko13 a sundin fan but not a leafs fan? youre either from the toronto area, your swedish or you know great hockey players or all of the above lol either way im a huge sundin fan
CantFaze 1 year ago
@pucko13 I don't want to be "that" guy.. But as a die hard leafs fan, i would agree with you possibly in the perspective that Sundin was a better captain than Jagr, hands down.. But as a player, Jagr completely outclasses Sundin. (my opinion) However i would take Gilmour over either ;).
JamesHarmeson 9 months ago
@JamesHarmeson i'd take wendel wonder over all 3
Frozintoe 9 months ago
@Frozintoe touche
JamesHarmeson 9 months ago
btw anyone's allowed to like a team... i like the leafs indeed but so what and yes they really DO SUCK but i like them cuz there my local team for example
maverickdevil5 2 years ago
Oh...so what YOU are saying is that pucko13 doesn´t know anything about hockey just because he likes Sundin better than Jagr? Maple Leafs got one hell of a history behind them and is now the most valuable team in NHL. Don´t you think that has something to do with there capacity lol?
Blackisnotred 2 years ago
@fishdevil77 your momma sucks bitch
bluepilluser45 1 year ago
@fishdevil77 jagr's a bitch always was always will be..
robdmhaze 1 year ago
@fishdevil77 whats that? the leafs suck? im sorry i couldnt hear you over the fact since the all star break we have 1 of the best records in the nhl.
purple0wnzx 10 months ago 2
@purple0wnzx Good enough to get you a -33 goal differential and a minimum of 5 games from a playoff spot. ;P
angeldarklcd 10 months ago
@purple0wnzx that was the weakest comback ive ever heard... they are the team with the longest playoffless streak. by the way thanks for seguin hell be an asset to the bruins dynasty to come the next decade
TheGreenMonsta43 6 months ago
@TheGreenMonsta43 we dont need seguin we have enough prospects plus kessel ended up leading the team with goals
purple0wnzx 6 months ago
@purple0wnzx not a hard thing to do on toronto...
TheGreenMonsta43 6 months ago
@TheGreenMonsta43 we had like 5 players who hat 55+ pts the rest wernt to far behind go chirp st louis i here they have a decent record w/o the cup too and same with other teams and before chicago won the cup they had a worse record then the leafs.
purple0wnzx 6 months ago
@fishdevil77 There's no question that Jagr was a more gifted player than Sundin, but he never went anywhere in the playoffs without Lemieux and the year the Czechs won gold at the Olympics, it was all Hasek. Jagr was the type of guy that would score 6 points when his team won 8-2 but would be shut out when you really needed him, he even admitted himself, he hates being on the ice during the last minute of a one goal game. To take Sundin over Jagr isn't as crazy as it sounds.
gymguy25 10 months ago
That is a penalty, he hit him late, 4 pim in the box would the job
FootballKid071 2 years ago
nice hit
oreo395 2 years ago 2
WTF SUNDIN IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN JAGR! WTF U TALKING BOUT! First of all, Jagr is a moneybitch gone to KHL for money by the corrupt Russians. He also moved to a better club and all just for win and money. Sundin stayed in Toronto all his NHL-career and just finished in Vancouver to have ONE shot at the cup. Now if Sundin would have played in the Pens or Rangers, HE WOULD HAVE DONE SOOOO MUCH MORE POINTS THAN JAGR!
Arawon 2 years ago 2
shut up
IRealHipHopFan 2 years ago
Jagr's one of the best wingers of all time. Some people go by reputation but if you've followed his career more closely you know he's been clutch and actually carried the Pens in a number of playoff series. Sometimes a diva, but also a warrior at times.
Btw, don't got the exact numbers but I think he's among the all time highs in GWGs and OT goals.
I'm Swedish but there's no way I can say Sundin was better than Jagr.
Deas67 2 years ago 4
Jagr was better because he got more goals assists and points and neither was a 2 way player and jagr absolutely dominated offensively like no european before, however Mats was A MUCH BETTER PERSON
MrBarelylethal 2 years ago 2
Jagr wasn't clutch JimB667? He only scored the tying goal and game winner in overtime of game 6 against the Devils in '99 with a bad groin that severly limited his ice time and skating. He only scored the game tying goal with seconds left on the clock in game 1 of the '92 cup finals against the Blackhawks that led to Mario's game winning goal and eventual sweep of the series. No he wasn't clutch at all. I'm sure he has more clutch playoff goals in one season than Sundin has in his career.
68nevets68 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Jagr is way better than fucking sundin anyway
tstickpro 2 years ago
HA!
JbrennOdot 2 years ago
bahahahaha Jagr is better than Sundin? WOW
jag2424 2 years ago
hahaha Jagr is better than Sundin. He has more goals, more points and the added bonus of 2 Cups on his resume. He may be a head case but as a hockey player, I'd take Jagr in his prime over Sundin and day of the week.
Oh and Crosby's better that Sundin also, maybe someday when you jealous and bitter, hating punks get a clue you'll figure it out too. The Leafs couldn't do it with Sundin as captain but Crosby at only 21 captains the Pens to a cup.
68nevets68 2 years ago
You need to get off Jagrs dick bro. He is not as good as Sundin. Sundin was way more consistent and way more clutch than Jagr could ever wish to be. Sundin was a born leader, Jagr was not. Look at all of Sundins Gold Medals... Sundin scored many game tying goals in the playoffs with under 1 mins left. And who said anything about Crosby? I never said Crosby was not better. Stay on topic
jag2424 2 years ago 2
sundin is garbage...he can't even win a cup wow
xVincex8 2 years ago
one player doesn't win a cup
phille22 2 years ago 3
Any other classless player would have murdered Jagr. Clean hit.
ndsong 2 years ago 14
I thought this was about crosbaby
Oilblood87 2 years ago
it sucks jagr isnt playin anymore he was really fun to watch
Koivu911 2 years ago 3
yeah absolutely and Sundin has quit as well and has started to play poker heh but sure, both players are pretty old. But it's no age comparing to Chelios or Fetisov for that matter :/
Ohhaloo 2 years ago
jagr is a great player...but i hate him
tomski9 2 years ago
of course Jagr in his prime was more skilled than Mats. Jags just wasn't in this series, and pretty much any playoff game he played in NY was a write off. Both players brought different things to the table. Mats was a clutch goal scorer and motivator - something Jagr was not.
JimB667 2 years ago
Jagr usually only played well in contract years like 70% of europeans.
lemonademoosejaw 2 years ago
Hahaha. Back when the Leafs could actually MAKE the playoffs and when Sundin could significantly CONTRIBUTE to a playoff team. HAHAHA!
QuiltMaster 2 years ago 2
Jagr was amazing when he played and dude lighten up you cant honestly tell me that wouldnt hurt
SBRThaBeastyBoy 2 years ago 2
he still plays just in the russian super league
nhlgoaliem39 2 years ago
Jagr is one of the best players ever , he's not a crybaby
zaaaaak17 2 years ago
no he suck
monktryface 2 years ago
i know, thats crosby
blairmacinnis75 2 years ago
ye that's true:D
zaaaaak17 2 years ago
Jagr is better then Sundin in some aspects and Sundin is better then Jagr in some. hard call whos the best overall
xjedimindx 2 years ago
Jag is, has been and always will be better than Sundin. If u say anything else you are a swedish gay or a retard. prob both
Yrsaken 2 years ago
Jagr is a crying babe. Without his team mates, giving him nice puck´s att the time, he would be nothing.
Sundin could create a goal by him self from own defensive blue line.
The person that don´t agree on this is Jagr boy friend.....
voderick 2 years ago
Man, I was looking for a good argue, but now u ruined it by giving me a proper answer... ;D
These days its hard to find a good fight
Yrsaken 2 years ago
I just don't think these two can be compared. Jagr obviously put up bigger offensive numbers, but Sundin was a far better player in terms of physical presence and leadership. Simply saying one is "better" is useless. Both great players, one of which happened to get absolutely rocked by the other in this video.
gavingunhold822 2 years ago 5
Ahaahha, from my view Jagr is way more respected and skilled than Sundin. :)
And no it's not a joke, it's a fact.
Facts hurts eh?
keeptdos 2 years ago
I bet mats "Sudden" Sundin have hurt Finland lots of time as well ay? Remember all the last minute goals Sundin have made against Finland?
Facts hurt eh? ;p
Skrangelben 2 years ago
Yea luck ;)
Still in my point of view Jagr is more respected and better :P And I'm not here to argue about Finland vs Sweden, :) <3
keeptdos 2 years ago
Yeah, I bet that talking about sweden Finland in hockey would hurt you to much! ;)
I agree with you, jagr was a better player than Sundin. jagr was almost as good as Peter Foppa Forsberg in his prime. He was a tard bit better at scoring goals but lacked Forsbergs all around abilities. Forsberg was one of the best two -way players in the league, perhaps the greatest passer and had marvelous puck handling tecniq combines with a strong and physical gameplay!
Skrangelben 2 years ago
lol jagrs such a pussy
rabbi1212 2 years ago 4
This comment has received too many negative votes show
how is jagr a crybaby? dude is sick.
lovi23 2 years ago
thats whats i like
jtutag 3 years ago
Nice hit but Jagr is definitely not a crybaby...
izmodezmo 3 years ago 6
This has been flagged as spam show
Jagr is 10000000 times better then Sundin u fuckin idiots
Raymondbeacon1 3 years ago
jagr is a huge crybaby!!!
GSHLproductions 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Jágr is great player and real leader of whole team, much better player than Sundin. Czech!
Apostasy13 3 years ago