@Wordlord72 Its easy to blame the system, because the current system is seriously flawed.
Competition in economics is ok? I guess that you mean that competition in business is ok. Education is a business just like any other. It is suffering due to a business monopoly run by corrupt unions.
Improving the education of teachers with out improving their incentive to perform (competition) will do nothing. Only with competition do we have excellence. Otherwise its all lowest common denominator.
Govern outsourcing to private contractors: Google "Halliburton soldier scandal" They let our soldiers get upper respiratory infections from sleeping in moldy tents while burning 1000s of dollars of "wrongly ordered computers" in the desert. Boeing on the other hand only charges the taxpayers of work that wasn't even done. Can anyone say FRAUD.
Yeah, great "increase (in) service levels for taxpayers". Is this what Reason colleague, Harris Kenny means?
@TheLadyMichele - Halliburton is an excellent example of what happens when a corporation is granted the same monopoly privileges as a government - otherwise known as cronyism - not capitalism. Too bad most people do not know the difference.
@StateExempt: Actually, a very good point. I never have enough Chars to type long version. Having a general election fund (therefore, no donations go to candidates) and legalizing lobbying could go a long way to help capitalism turn into cronyism, OR what would be your suggestions. Mankind has tried many different economic systems and many government systems. Yet, somehow cronyism seems to always move in.
Parent Trigger Law- The problem at McKinley was caused because many parents were misinformed about what they signed. Celerity charter broke their own rule. They used a sneaky and demagogic strategy to get parents to sign the petition. Why didn't Celerity compete with other Charters to take over McKinnley? Charters come off as being about kids, but that's a poor generalization. The more public schools close, the more failing charter schools will rise.
Knowledge should be gained from experience, not what texts say. For example: Cooking teaches physics, chemistry, math, bio(y'all be usin meats n shit) and how not to die.So by making a cake, a child will actually learn a lot of things, without just having to read it, or hear it, etc. This way it ensure the child knows and has experienced what needs to be taught.
Thats just one example too. Holy fuck. Stop putting kids in desks and telling them to be obedient and actually teach em something.
Education is flawed nowadays anyway, the entire structure of teaching should be redesigned. THEY only allow what we can learn, privatizing schooling should be the first step but they wont take their precious youth mind control method. All it is now is left brained bullshit, they take learning away from our creativity and just ask us to regurgitate the text on to the exam paper.
Wealthier white people get subsidized childcare because the school day period coincides with the need for their childcare. But not so wealthy minorities who work in the service sector either have to find their own "daycare" or their kids end up in subsidized daycare that is much less friendly than the education system their white counterparts enjoy (juvenile detention).
The striving for competitive advantage would benefit the disenfranchised far better than the stagnant onesizedfits all system
Tax credits, vouchers, privatization. Like it or not, its coming. So get used to it and focus on how you can improve it. If you must stick with antiquated failing models like public schools than your opinions will become obsolete.
@Wordlord72 So I guess that whole Soviet Union communism thing is working out well? The public system is about the same as the one implemented there.
Privatization is the road to improving public education. Make the teachers compete for the children, and make the children compete for the best schools.
My parents were poor, I choose to work hard (my own company) in the summers and earned enough money to go to a private school. I am now a successful entrepreneur. If I can do it so can others.
"Hey, we are government. We are a benevolent charity organisation filled with people that always have the best of intentions. We would like to take your kids away from you and put them in one of our buildings. We'll educate them. You won't get to choose what education is best for your kids. You wont get to choose what teacher is best for your kid. If they can't learn, please drug them. Kids and parents don't know whats best for your kid. We do."
When education officially becomes a private for-profit enterprise expect the gulf between the haves and have nots, the enlightened and the unenlightened, to become so vast that the two classes will look like different species on the evolutionary chain. As far as the elitist behind the push for privatization of all good things are concerned those they want to push out of their exclusive societies are animals, anyway. That includes the ignorant, red-neck tea party groupies they've been exploiting
@FriedDaisy The historical evidence is entirely in opposition to your stance. Private education yields superior results and for less money (by far) than does publci schooling. Education began as a private institution in this country (and elsewhere) and was available not just to the elites by any stretch of the imagination (and did a better job of educating the general public than does the public school system) ... ahich based on the "exploiting" comment has faikled you as well.
Privatization is will not help. Why? for one there are no profits to be made through educations other then attracting enrollers. Privatization = profit and education i not a business of profit.
@defiythelie Why couldn't someone make a profit through education? If there's a demand for a service, there's profits to be made in it, and whoever provides the best service will receive the most profits. Privatization will also make it easier to run a non-profit school as well.
@shamgar001 Sure you can make a profit in it. but that does not mean that it will benefit anyone other then the share holders. Its like the police, you could privatize then. But will it benefit the people ? No.
@defiythelie - You're so indoctrinated you're actually stupid. You're too stupid to know what "profit" means. You're too stupid to understand that anyone who doesn't live from hand-to-mouth "profits" from their labor. You're so stupid from indoctrination you think that if no one ever makes any money that is the best thing in the world. I tell you what, why don't you fuck off to your Utopian world where no one "profits" from anything they do and you can live like the hippies who "live for today.
@defiythelie The difference between police and schools is that the main function of police is to control violence by using violence themselves. Schools do not require that.
When I buy a car from, say, Ford, that benefits the shareholders of Ford because they make money, but I benefit from it too, because now I have a car. If they fail to make a car that I want, I can buy a Chevy instead. Why would the education market work any differently?
@defiythelie To the first question, compulsory attendance laws would be off the books in a libertarian society (I'm assuming that's the context where we're working.)
By unleashing market forces on education, you would expect to see prices drop substantially and better resources for homeschooling would be developed, while charity schools and privately funded scholarships would fill in the gaps.
@shamgar001 (contd) What the student learn will vary by school, which will in turn be chosen by the parents. If you could choose between a school which only taught factory work and one which taught a wide variety of subjects, which would you pick? Demand for important subjects will bring more people to market who will provide those.
@defiythelie We already know what happens to the education of the poor in our country. Look at the once prospering, blue collar meccas-- crumbling and blowing away, now-- and you'll see the future of what's left of our "middle-class" neighborhoods and schools. Poverty breeds ignorance and despair which leads to violence, crime and the degradation of the local economies and the decimation of the neighborhoods and schools. If you were a marketable teacher would you work in such a place? Nope.
@defiythelie shamgar's selling snake oil or he's fallen under the snake oil spell... Don't pay any attention to the rich man's think-tank along with its computers & complicated finacial instraments of mass destruction hiding behind the curtain. No! Think of all the money you ("you" meaning the rich man) can make on this latest ponzi scheme to rip someone, anyone, off. In business someone has to loose for the other to win.But this scheme isn't like those other schemes. This ain't no bubble! Yet.
@defiythelie To the contrary, the real world evidence is exactly the opposite of what you suggest. Private schools routinely outperform public schools (for similar groups of students - the "cream of the crop" myth has no basis) and for less money, meeting consumer needs results in profits. Similarly, private security and fire services have been successful for centuries, providing superior service in both profit and non-profit circumstances.
@shamgar001 Someone CAN make a profit from education; and we know exactly what that looks like. The prime rib goes to the rich and the God-only-knows-what's-in-it, hamburger goes to the poor. Look at any community college and compare it to Princeton or Yale or any other highbrow institution for the rich. In between are the "State" schools which have jacked up their tuition so much that half of the kids who should be there, can't be there.
@FriedDaisy Prinston and Yale don't necessarily provide better education. Prestige is a bonus you get from going there. Most of their professors are hired for research rather than teaching ability.
And even if Ivy-league schools have the best education, you can still get a fine education at community college.
Part of the reason why tuition prices are so high is because the government subsidizes student loans. If everyone can pay more, schools will charge more.
@shamgar001 It's true, if you drain the fat & add veggies, hamburger can make a relatively healthy meal. I hope those sustaining themselves on hamburger know this. But wasn't Health-- along with Art, Music, Gym and unadulterated Science-- placed on the cutting block when our commons were corporatized & Channel 1 invaded the classroom? No money for Health when the transnational stockholders need to get paid… more & more & more with each quarter. It's in the contract. Forget The Constitution.
@FriedDaisy It ultimately comes down to an attitude which says "You people are just too stupid to make your own decisions, so I'm going to force you to take what I consider 'good'."
@shamgar001 Another way to say that is: we've made sure you people are so ignorant, misinformed & misguided that you don't know when your rights are violated or what course of action is available to you if you somehow figure it out. Meanwhile, you allow yourselves to be absolutely exploited so that we, your masters, can tell you what your productivity & proceeds of your activities of daily living ARE NOT worth. For our trouble, we seize 80-90% of the profits. We'll be coming for the rest, soon
@shamgar001 My description describes our modern day monarchy and the multi layered mechanisms by which it extracts its "tax" from its subjects to become very rich. Because many of the "monarchs" have weaseled their way into our government they've been able to exploit it to further exploit us. In The Constitution that's called treason, or official corruption, and if enough of us stand up to insist that our Constitution and laws be enforced the exploitation will diminish greatly
@FriedDaisy No doubt ignoarance, misinformation and misguidedness are very real problems. Certainly, those with no grasp of history, economics, business or reality sometimes fall prey to the long debunked Marxian theories of exploitation and the labor theory of value or simply the viability of socialism. One can only hope that such clueless individuals make an attempt to educate themselves, but no one here wishes to coerce them - that's how public schools (don't) work.
@shamgar001 I can tell you're not "stupid." You've probably read The Constitution and some laws built upon it. If you have then you know our foundational laws, for good reason, forbid exploitation. It doesn't matter who commits the exploitation or how nicely it's visited upon a target, it's still against the law. Without strict oversight modern business, by law, MUST exploit so their investment pyramid schemes squeeze every penny for profits to shareholders. Until, there's nothing left.
@shamgar001 What's going on in the Middle East with the military contractors is a great example of what happens when you privatize what should be governmental functions. The U.S. taxpayer is paying 100x more to these get rich quick scam artist for services and duties our actual military should be performing. I wouldn't doubt that somewhere in the record we'd discover we've been paying for both the troops and the contractors for the same jobs; and "somebody" has been pocketing the surplus
@FriedDaisy Correction... that is what happens when government is involved with what should be a private organization. In any case of waste and fraud, the government has been involved. Please prove me wrong. It might help you get an education. :)
@donaldaj1 Correction... it's what happens when corporatist invade our country through a back door in congress and go on 30 yr binge of corruption & greed. Former president GW referred to it as "Wall Street getting drunk." Right now, we do not have the government envisioned by our founding fathers. We've got illegal corporatism which allows pigs like Cheney to commit official corruption (Halliburton anyone???) with no consequences. The foxes were guarding the henhouse and all the hens are dead.
@FriedDaisy That makes more sense. Again, it's government involvement that is ruining the system. If crony capitalism was removed from our system, we would all be better off. Please tell me you support Ron Paul. :)
@donaldaj1 Ron Paul got my attention in 2008. I even joined a local group of libertarians supporting the campaign of a really bright local guy for state house representative. Then the Heritage Foundation sent in a rep to muddle the issues and sell books. Then the local Republic Party shifted their support behind our guy. Then I was exposed to some conversation about how to suppress the opposition's votes. Then I heard Ron Paul believed in creationism. Our guy lost, and RP lost my respect.
want a real fix for schools, Demand that any money that was not spent be able to be saved for next year with out having money cut back from the schools next years budget Start a Surplus!
@AnonOrange because vouchers are like food stamps for education. if the govt gave everyone a check for education and told them to spend it on whatever educational method they liked, i'd be for it. the problem is that the money will come with strings. it will end up being the education industrial complex.
education has to be given back to the states. if some states want to experiment with vouchers, that is their business
There is much talking shit in the comments. And by talking shit, I mean people trying to get their point across by calling this and that "shit". Surely there is a better word in the English language to criticize charter schools.
Arrrggh! Why did the girl have to go on... And on... Should have just asked a question or given some comparisons with South Africa! It's that kind of numbing lecture speech style that just embarrasses ourselves when my fellow countymen use it...
@broncofan92slay Yes I know, nothing against her and my accent. (I'm from South Africa too :) ), it's just.... It's the equivalent of someone in high school instead of adding insight to her oral essay, just says the same thing the person before said. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled there were SA people in the audience, but that's the way you'd speak in a South African high school in an essay you had no interest in, it just doesn't sound genuine... although I'm sure she felt strongly about it.
LOL! We're not broke. Charter schools suck, the American Federation for Children are fucking whores who bought Indiana Republicans like the sacks of shit they are.
@LibertyDownUnder i'm only for the privatization of schools, but research shows that charter schools are mostly below average compared to public schools.
@sugarbrownrabbit, you claimed that you saw some research that suggests that public schools work better, but I assume you made that up.
If you watch some of John Stossel's coverage of the education system, you would see black mothers crying when hearing their kids did not get accepted into the charter school they wanted.
Individual make much better choices than a collective does. And in this case the individuals ALMOST ALWAYS choose the charter schools. And the results speak for themselves.
You're under the assumption that I'm an advocate for public schools, but that is really the not case. If you actually read my comments, you would see that I said that BOTH charter and public schools suck. In fact, I believed that entire American education system, except secular private school, sucks.
I strongly do not support privatizing the educational system. We already have issues with private and home-schooled kids growing up in a bubble and indoctrination students with creationism... I'm sorry but if private schools actually taught science, then they would be a good alternative, but as for now the public educational system is all we got. If I were a business owner, I wouldn't hire a person who graduated from a religious school - I'd want educated people.
I always find it funny when people say a voucher system would discriminate between rich and poor, when in reality, the current system discriminates since school funding comes largely from property taxes. If properties are shit, because the area is shit, then how is a school in a shit area equal to a school in a high income area?
Treat each child the same with equal value vouchers.
charter school dont outperform public schools...and if the state gave out vouchers to parents who would use it to send their kids to religious schools that would violate the first amendment
@oJKBo That wouldn't violate the first amendment. The states would be giving a voucher to parents to send their kid to a school of their choice. The state is not telling the parents that they must send their kids to a religious private schools. They are not endorsing any religious institution. If parents using education vouchers to send kids to religious schools is unconstitutional, then people on welfare using welfare money to make church donations would violate the first amendment as well.
@TheNotStanley yeah it wouldnt lol, that was just bullshit, however charter schools still dont perform better than public schools. Finland invests in its students, paying for their schooling and even their meals. Teaching is very competitive, only the top students with masters degrees can teach and teachers are paid quite well and are also fully unionized. They dont even fucking start school until age 7
@TheNotStanley My tax dollars are going to Catholic schools, just because a state launders the money doesn't change the fact it trashes the 1st amendment. I'd burn down every Catholic Church in america if I could, they nothing but gangsters protecting their child fuckers
@oJKBo How does that go against the first amendment? The government is allowed to give money to Religious institutions. It is just now allowed to establish that religion as part of the government.
charter school dont outperform public schools...and if the state gave out vouchers to parents who would use it to send their kids to religious schools that would violate the first amendment
@oJKBo Actually, in the real world, charter schools routinely outperform public schools (and typically by a sizable margin) and the First Amendment is in no way violated by the recipients of vouchers using the funding for whatever type of education they choose.
@FletchforFreedom You're a liar, Charter Schools are almost always shit compared to public schools. I can provide at least one source to back my claim, you provide shit.
@robertmike57 Actually NO study anywhere has found that Charter Schools are shit. Over and above the points made here in the video, the definitive peer-reviewed meta-analysis (a compilation of the available studies) by the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools found in the majority of studies and cases, learning gains were larger in charter schools than in public schools. In fact, twice as many showed greater gains than showed relative losses. Feel free to look it up.
@robertmike57 - Every reasonable study has concluded that dollar for dollar Charter schools provide a better education. They also show massive improvements overtime as those managing them become more accustomed to the task.
@StateExempt LOL! The expert is Diane Ravitch, she states 5% of charter schools offer up improvement. The number is closer to zero when you take out the schools propped up by huge private donations to provide the illusion improvements can be made with the same funding. Use logic: there is nothing a charter school does a public school isn't doing. High turnover, low pay, substandard facilities & kicking out low performing students is the average charter school, and why they're shit.
@robertmike57 - Actually, all charter schools offer improvement dollar for dollar, especially over time.
And what source can you give me to show that private donations are what is offering improvement and when you take those into account (if they even exist) do those charter schools end up with more money than public schools? Pretty sure the answer is no.
@StateExempt ALL charter schools offer improvement??? Hey, that's more than enough to discredit you, I've never said ALL charter schools are bad.
One of the "great" charter schools with private donations has been featured on this channel, accurate report. KIPP got tons of money from Bill Gates. The ONE good charter school close to me have got extra private donations.
@robertmike57 - I think the irony of that second sentence of yours speaks for itself.
And I do not deny that businessmen are more than happy to assist in helping the youth of America get an education. I have yet to see however evidence that indicates that charter schools deliver less per dollar spent - especially over time.
@robertmike57 Nice try. Ravitch's "expertise" (along with her rants about "right wing attacks on teachers unions") is subject to debate and you have completely mischaracterized her research, which said nothing about illusory improvements and indicated that 17% of charter schools showed marked improvement and 46% were no worse. As it happens, that study was included in the meta-analysis I already referenced and found not to be indicative of the greater body of research on the subject.
@StateExempt BTW, I HAVE studied the Indiana Dept of Education numbers for all schools in the state. MY study shows almost ALL charter schools are shit. But if you believe Waiting for Superman, propganda from KIPP schools and the fraud cunt Michele Rhee, you'll believe anything.
@robertmike57 - Great, now all you have to do is look at nationwide studies that show that within a few years of starting up, all charter schools outperform their public school counterparts.
Public schools are beyond mediocre, and have been for some time. But don't take my word for it:
@Wordlord72 Its easy to blame the system, because the current system is seriously flawed.
Competition in economics is ok? I guess that you mean that competition in business is ok. Education is a business just like any other. It is suffering due to a business monopoly run by corrupt unions.
Improving the education of teachers with out improving their incentive to perform (competition) will do nothing. Only with competition do we have excellence. Otherwise its all lowest common denominator.
XCritonX 3 months ago
Govern outsourcing to private contractors: Google "Halliburton soldier scandal" They let our soldiers get upper respiratory infections from sleeping in moldy tents while burning 1000s of dollars of "wrongly ordered computers" in the desert. Boeing on the other hand only charges the taxpayers of work that wasn't even done. Can anyone say FRAUD.
Yeah, great "increase (in) service levels for taxpayers". Is this what Reason colleague, Harris Kenny means?
TheLadyMichele 4 months ago
@TheLadyMichele - Halliburton is an excellent example of what happens when a corporation is granted the same monopoly privileges as a government - otherwise known as cronyism - not capitalism. Too bad most people do not know the difference.
StateExempt 4 months ago
@StateExempt: Actually, a very good point. I never have enough Chars to type long version. Having a general election fund (therefore, no donations go to candidates) and legalizing lobbying could go a long way to help capitalism turn into cronyism, OR what would be your suggestions. Mankind has tried many different economic systems and many government systems. Yet, somehow cronyism seems to always move in.
TheLadyMichele 4 months ago
@TheLadyMichele *illegalizing (which isn't actually a word, but you get the point)
TheLadyMichele 4 months ago
Parent Trigger Law- The problem at McKinley was caused because many parents were misinformed about what they signed. Celerity charter broke their own rule. They used a sneaky and demagogic strategy to get parents to sign the petition. Why didn't Celerity compete with other Charters to take over McKinnley? Charters come off as being about kids, but that's a poor generalization. The more public schools close, the more failing charter schools will rise.
miotico 4 months ago
Let's privatize ed!!! Look at how happy CHilean students are ..... NOT!!!
miotico 4 months ago
@miotico - Let's nationalize education forever! Look how much higher tests scores are and how inexpensive it has become!
Oh wait...
watch?v=7tck77z3x0I
StateExempt 4 months ago
Knowledge should be gained from experience, not what texts say. For example: Cooking teaches physics, chemistry, math, bio(y'all be usin meats n shit) and how not to die.So by making a cake, a child will actually learn a lot of things, without just having to read it, or hear it, etc. This way it ensure the child knows and has experienced what needs to be taught.
Thats just one example too. Holy fuck. Stop putting kids in desks and telling them to be obedient and actually teach em something.
Ihasmoarface 4 months ago
Education is flawed nowadays anyway, the entire structure of teaching should be redesigned. THEY only allow what we can learn, privatizing schooling should be the first step but they wont take their precious youth mind control method. All it is now is left brained bullshit, they take learning away from our creativity and just ask us to regurgitate the text on to the exam paper.
Ihasmoarface 4 months ago
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qwerty94376 4 months ago
down with koch
httm241 4 months ago
Wealthier white people get subsidized childcare because the school day period coincides with the need for their childcare. But not so wealthy minorities who work in the service sector either have to find their own "daycare" or their kids end up in subsidized daycare that is much less friendly than the education system their white counterparts enjoy (juvenile detention).
The striving for competitive advantage would benefit the disenfranchised far better than the stagnant onesizedfits all system
PumpkinJoe999 4 months ago in playlist More videos from ReasonTV
Tax credits, vouchers, privatization. Like it or not, its coming. So get used to it and focus on how you can improve it. If you must stick with antiquated failing models like public schools than your opinions will become obsolete.
The private sector occasionally fails.
The public sector occasionally succeeds.
Pick one for yourself! But let me pick my own.
XCritonX 4 months ago
@Wordlord72 So I guess that whole Soviet Union communism thing is working out well? The public system is about the same as the one implemented there.
Privatization is the road to improving public education. Make the teachers compete for the children, and make the children compete for the best schools.
My parents were poor, I choose to work hard (my own company) in the summers and earned enough money to go to a private school. I am now a successful entrepreneur. If I can do it so can others.
XCritonX 4 months ago
"Hey, we are government. We are a benevolent charity organisation filled with people that always have the best of intentions. We would like to take your kids away from you and put them in one of our buildings. We'll educate them. You won't get to choose what education is best for your kids. You wont get to choose what teacher is best for your kid. If they can't learn, please drug them. Kids and parents don't know whats best for your kid. We do."
SushiGoat 4 months ago 3
Comment removed
SushiGoat 4 months ago
public education is a joke.
ilikemitchhedberg 4 months ago
When education officially becomes a private for-profit enterprise expect the gulf between the haves and have nots, the enlightened and the unenlightened, to become so vast that the two classes will look like different species on the evolutionary chain. As far as the elitist behind the push for privatization of all good things are concerned those they want to push out of their exclusive societies are animals, anyway. That includes the ignorant, red-neck tea party groupies they've been exploiting
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@FriedDaisy The historical evidence is entirely in opposition to your stance. Private education yields superior results and for less money (by far) than does publci schooling. Education began as a private institution in this country (and elsewhere) and was available not just to the elites by any stretch of the imagination (and did a better job of educating the general public than does the public school system) ... ahich based on the "exploiting" comment has faikled you as well.
FletchforFreedom 4 months ago
Privatization is will not help. Why? for one there are no profits to be made through educations other then attracting enrollers. Privatization = profit and education i not a business of profit.
defiythelie 4 months ago
@defiythelie Why couldn't someone make a profit through education? If there's a demand for a service, there's profits to be made in it, and whoever provides the best service will receive the most profits. Privatization will also make it easier to run a non-profit school as well.
shamgar001 4 months ago
@shamgar001 Sure you can make a profit in it. but that does not mean that it will benefit anyone other then the share holders. Its like the police, you could privatize then. But will it benefit the people ? No.
defiythelie 4 months ago
@defiythelie - You're so indoctrinated you're actually stupid. You're too stupid to know what "profit" means. You're too stupid to understand that anyone who doesn't live from hand-to-mouth "profits" from their labor. You're so stupid from indoctrination you think that if no one ever makes any money that is the best thing in the world. I tell you what, why don't you fuck off to your Utopian world where no one "profits" from anything they do and you can live like the hippies who "live for today.
thomaserossi 4 months ago
@thomaserossi Personal attacks means you have no real agreement.
defiythelie 4 months ago
@thomaserossi You're comment does nothing to help the liberty movement. Tone it down and try to win people over rather than alienate them.
shamgar001 4 months ago
@defiythelie The difference between police and schools is that the main function of police is to control violence by using violence themselves. Schools do not require that.
When I buy a car from, say, Ford, that benefits the shareholders of Ford because they make money, but I benefit from it too, because now I have a car. If they fail to make a car that I want, I can buy a Chevy instead. Why would the education market work any differently?
shamgar001 4 months ago
@shamgar001 Ok, lets say all schools are privatized. What happens to those that cant afford those schools? Children fined, parents put in jail ?
What are the kid going to be taught ? History, English, their rights and math ? or just how to run a machine at the share holders factory ?
defiythelie 4 months ago
@defiythelie To the first question, compulsory attendance laws would be off the books in a libertarian society (I'm assuming that's the context where we're working.)
By unleashing market forces on education, you would expect to see prices drop substantially and better resources for homeschooling would be developed, while charity schools and privately funded scholarships would fill in the gaps.
(cont)
shamgar001 4 months ago
@shamgar001 (contd) What the student learn will vary by school, which will in turn be chosen by the parents. If you could choose between a school which only taught factory work and one which taught a wide variety of subjects, which would you pick? Demand for important subjects will bring more people to market who will provide those.
shamgar001 4 months ago
@defiythelie We already know what happens to the education of the poor in our country. Look at the once prospering, blue collar meccas-- crumbling and blowing away, now-- and you'll see the future of what's left of our "middle-class" neighborhoods and schools. Poverty breeds ignorance and despair which leads to violence, crime and the degradation of the local economies and the decimation of the neighborhoods and schools. If you were a marketable teacher would you work in such a place? Nope.
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@defiythelie shamgar's selling snake oil or he's fallen under the snake oil spell... Don't pay any attention to the rich man's think-tank along with its computers & complicated finacial instraments of mass destruction hiding behind the curtain. No! Think of all the money you ("you" meaning the rich man) can make on this latest ponzi scheme to rip someone, anyone, off. In business someone has to loose for the other to win.But this scheme isn't like those other schemes. This ain't no bubble! Yet.
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
Ummmm. Kitty litter is used to clean up vomit. This lady has no clue.
defiythelie 4 months ago
@defiythelie To the contrary, the real world evidence is exactly the opposite of what you suggest. Private schools routinely outperform public schools (for similar groups of students - the "cream of the crop" myth has no basis) and for less money, meeting consumer needs results in profits. Similarly, private security and fire services have been successful for centuries, providing superior service in both profit and non-profit circumstances.
FletchforFreedom 4 months ago
@shamgar001 Someone CAN make a profit from education; and we know exactly what that looks like. The prime rib goes to the rich and the God-only-knows-what's-in-it, hamburger goes to the poor. Look at any community college and compare it to Princeton or Yale or any other highbrow institution for the rich. In between are the "State" schools which have jacked up their tuition so much that half of the kids who should be there, can't be there.
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@FriedDaisy Prinston and Yale don't necessarily provide better education. Prestige is a bonus you get from going there. Most of their professors are hired for research rather than teaching ability.
And even if Ivy-league schools have the best education, you can still get a fine education at community college.
Part of the reason why tuition prices are so high is because the government subsidizes student loans. If everyone can pay more, schools will charge more.
shamgar001 4 months ago
@shamgar001 It's true, if you drain the fat & add veggies, hamburger can make a relatively healthy meal. I hope those sustaining themselves on hamburger know this. But wasn't Health-- along with Art, Music, Gym and unadulterated Science-- placed on the cutting block when our commons were corporatized & Channel 1 invaded the classroom? No money for Health when the transnational stockholders need to get paid… more & more & more with each quarter. It's in the contract. Forget The Constitution.
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@FriedDaisy It ultimately comes down to an attitude which says "You people are just too stupid to make your own decisions, so I'm going to force you to take what I consider 'good'."
shamgar001 4 months ago
@shamgar001 Another way to say that is: we've made sure you people are so ignorant, misinformed & misguided that you don't know when your rights are violated or what course of action is available to you if you somehow figure it out. Meanwhile, you allow yourselves to be absolutely exploited so that we, your masters, can tell you what your productivity & proceeds of your activities of daily living ARE NOT worth. For our trouble, we seize 80-90% of the profits. We'll be coming for the rest, soon
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@FriedDaisy That description fits government to a T.
shamgar001 4 months ago
@shamgar001 My description describes our modern day monarchy and the multi layered mechanisms by which it extracts its "tax" from its subjects to become very rich. Because many of the "monarchs" have weaseled their way into our government they've been able to exploit it to further exploit us. In The Constitution that's called treason, or official corruption, and if enough of us stand up to insist that our Constitution and laws be enforced the exploitation will diminish greatly
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@FriedDaisy No doubt ignoarance, misinformation and misguidedness are very real problems. Certainly, those with no grasp of history, economics, business or reality sometimes fall prey to the long debunked Marxian theories of exploitation and the labor theory of value or simply the viability of socialism. One can only hope that such clueless individuals make an attempt to educate themselves, but no one here wishes to coerce them - that's how public schools (don't) work.
FletchforFreedom 4 months ago
@shamgar001 I can tell you're not "stupid." You've probably read The Constitution and some laws built upon it. If you have then you know our foundational laws, for good reason, forbid exploitation. It doesn't matter who commits the exploitation or how nicely it's visited upon a target, it's still against the law. Without strict oversight modern business, by law, MUST exploit so their investment pyramid schemes squeeze every penny for profits to shareholders. Until, there's nothing left.
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@FriedDaisy Could you provide an example of the exploitation/ponzi schemes to which you refer?
shamgar001 4 months ago
@shamgar001 What's going on in the Middle East with the military contractors is a great example of what happens when you privatize what should be governmental functions. The U.S. taxpayer is paying 100x more to these get rich quick scam artist for services and duties our actual military should be performing. I wouldn't doubt that somewhere in the record we'd discover we've been paying for both the troops and the contractors for the same jobs; and "somebody" has been pocketing the surplus
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@FriedDaisy Correction... that is what happens when government is involved with what should be a private organization. In any case of waste and fraud, the government has been involved. Please prove me wrong. It might help you get an education. :)
donaldaj1 4 months ago
Comment removed
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@donaldaj1 Correction... it's what happens when corporatist invade our country through a back door in congress and go on 30 yr binge of corruption & greed. Former president GW referred to it as "Wall Street getting drunk." Right now, we do not have the government envisioned by our founding fathers. We've got illegal corporatism which allows pigs like Cheney to commit official corruption (Halliburton anyone???) with no consequences. The foxes were guarding the henhouse and all the hens are dead.
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
@FriedDaisy That makes more sense. Again, it's government involvement that is ruining the system. If crony capitalism was removed from our system, we would all be better off. Please tell me you support Ron Paul. :)
donaldaj1 4 months ago
@donaldaj1 Ron Paul got my attention in 2008. I even joined a local group of libertarians supporting the campaign of a really bright local guy for state house representative. Then the Heritage Foundation sent in a rep to muddle the issues and sell books. Then the local Republic Party shifted their support behind our guy. Then I was exposed to some conversation about how to suppress the opposition's votes. Then I heard Ron Paul believed in creationism. Our guy lost, and RP lost my respect.
FriedDaisy 4 months ago
want a real fix for schools, Demand that any money that was not spent be able to be saved for next year with out having money cut back from the schools next years budget Start a Surplus!
SimplyStupidNews 4 months ago
3 dislikes. Why so many?
AnonOrange 4 months ago 9
@AnonOrange because vouchers are like food stamps for education. if the govt gave everyone a check for education and told them to spend it on whatever educational method they liked, i'd be for it. the problem is that the money will come with strings. it will end up being the education industrial complex.
education has to be given back to the states. if some states want to experiment with vouchers, that is their business
58robbo 4 months ago
@AnonOrange, because they are probably public school teachers who couldn't make it anywhere else in life.
suburbanator91 4 months ago
@AnonOrange - Someone's PTA meeting I presume.
StateExempt 4 months ago
There is much talking shit in the comments. And by talking shit, I mean people trying to get their point across by calling this and that "shit". Surely there is a better word in the English language to criticize charter schools.
I blame public education.
JohnTightlips 4 months ago 28
All schools are a tool for parents. Poor parents don't know to use any schools. i have 7th grade education ,none of the 14 schools worked for me !
xylographersbus 5 months ago
Arrrggh! Why did the girl have to go on... And on... Should have just asked a question or given some comparisons with South Africa! It's that kind of numbing lecture speech style that just embarrasses ourselves when my fellow countymen use it...
jsg240 5 months ago
@jsg240 her accent was lovable
broncofan92slay 4 months ago
@broncofan92slay Yes I know, nothing against her and my accent. (I'm from South Africa too :) ), it's just.... It's the equivalent of someone in high school instead of adding insight to her oral essay, just says the same thing the person before said. Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled there were SA people in the audience, but that's the way you'd speak in a South African high school in an essay you had no interest in, it just doesn't sound genuine... although I'm sure she felt strongly about it.
jsg240 4 months ago
LOL! We're not broke. Charter schools suck, the American Federation for Children are fucking whores who bought Indiana Republicans like the sacks of shit they are.
robertmike57 5 months ago
@robertmike57, why do you public school advocates keep swearing and race baiting in order to make your point?
I keep looking for evidence that public schools work better, but all I find is empty slander.
LibertyDownUnder 5 months ago 2
@LibertyDownUnder i'm only for the privatization of schools, but research shows that charter schools are mostly below average compared to public schools.
sugarbrownrabbit 4 months ago
@sugarbrownrabbit, the video clearly says that when charter schools were introduced, the high school dropout rate fell from 30% to 5%.
Where did you see any research to suggest that public schools are better??
LibertyDownUnder 4 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder they both suck
sugarbrownrabbit 4 months ago
@sugarbrownrabbit, you claimed that you saw some research that suggests that public schools work better, but I assume you made that up.
If you watch some of John Stossel's coverage of the education system, you would see black mothers crying when hearing their kids did not get accepted into the charter school they wanted.
Individual make much better choices than a collective does. And in this case the individuals ALMOST ALWAYS choose the charter schools. And the results speak for themselves.
LibertyDownUnder 4 months ago
@LibertyDownUnder
You're under the assumption that I'm an advocate for public schools, but that is really the not case. If you actually read my comments, you would see that I said that BOTH charter and public schools suck. In fact, I believed that entire American education system, except secular private school, sucks.
sugarbrownrabbit 4 months ago
I strongly do not support privatizing the educational system. We already have issues with private and home-schooled kids growing up in a bubble and indoctrination students with creationism... I'm sorry but if private schools actually taught science, then they would be a good alternative, but as for now the public educational system is all we got. If I were a business owner, I wouldn't hire a person who graduated from a religious school - I'd want educated people.
TigerghostPictures 5 months ago
41:40 I know what we'll be capable of... putting a giant COKE ad on the moon.
squirreljester2 5 months ago
kitty litter... WTF!
DackIsBack 5 months ago
I always find it funny when people say a voucher system would discriminate between rich and poor, when in reality, the current system discriminates since school funding comes largely from property taxes. If properties are shit, because the area is shit, then how is a school in a shit area equal to a school in a high income area?
Treat each child the same with equal value vouchers.
chronDiggity 5 months ago
charter school dont outperform public schools...and if the state gave out vouchers to parents who would use it to send their kids to religious schools that would violate the first amendment
oJKBo 5 months ago
@oJKBo How would that violate the first amendment?
obtree 5 months ago
Comment removed
TheNotStanley 5 months ago
@oJKBo That wouldn't violate the first amendment. The states would be giving a voucher to parents to send their kid to a school of their choice. The state is not telling the parents that they must send their kids to a religious private schools. They are not endorsing any religious institution. If parents using education vouchers to send kids to religious schools is unconstitutional, then people on welfare using welfare money to make church donations would violate the first amendment as well.
TheNotStanley 5 months ago
@TheNotStanley yeah it wouldnt lol, that was just bullshit, however charter schools still dont perform better than public schools. Finland invests in its students, paying for their schooling and even their meals. Teaching is very competitive, only the top students with masters degrees can teach and teachers are paid quite well and are also fully unionized. They dont even fucking start school until age 7
oJKBo 5 months ago
@TheNotStanley My tax dollars are going to Catholic schools, just because a state launders the money doesn't change the fact it trashes the 1st amendment. I'd burn down every Catholic Church in america if I could, they nothing but gangsters protecting their child fuckers
robertmike57 5 months ago
@oJKBo How does that go against the first amendment? The government is allowed to give money to Religious institutions. It is just now allowed to establish that religion as part of the government.
Mezey5 5 months ago
charter school dont outperform public schools...and if the state gave out vouchers to parents who would use it to send their kids to religious schools that would violate the first amendment
oJKBo 5 months ago
@oJKBo Actually, in the real world, charter schools routinely outperform public schools (and typically by a sizable margin) and the First Amendment is in no way violated by the recipients of vouchers using the funding for whatever type of education they choose.
You need to fire your incompetent fact checker.
FletchforFreedom 5 months ago
@FletchforFreedom You're a liar, Charter Schools are almost always shit compared to public schools. I can provide at least one source to back my claim, you provide shit.
robertmike57 5 months ago
@robertmike57 Actually NO study anywhere has found that Charter Schools are shit. Over and above the points made here in the video, the definitive peer-reviewed meta-analysis (a compilation of the available studies) by the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools found in the majority of studies and cases, learning gains were larger in charter schools than in public schools. In fact, twice as many showed greater gains than showed relative losses. Feel free to look it up.
FletchforFreedom 5 months ago
@robertmike57 - Every reasonable study has concluded that dollar for dollar Charter schools provide a better education. They also show massive improvements overtime as those managing them become more accustomed to the task.
StateExempt 5 months ago
@StateExempt LOL! The expert is Diane Ravitch, she states 5% of charter schools offer up improvement. The number is closer to zero when you take out the schools propped up by huge private donations to provide the illusion improvements can be made with the same funding. Use logic: there is nothing a charter school does a public school isn't doing. High turnover, low pay, substandard facilities & kicking out low performing students is the average charter school, and why they're shit.
robertmike57 5 months ago
@robertmike57 - Actually, all charter schools offer improvement dollar for dollar, especially over time.
And what source can you give me to show that private donations are what is offering improvement and when you take those into account (if they even exist) do those charter schools end up with more money than public schools? Pretty sure the answer is no.
StateExempt 5 months ago
@StateExempt ALL charter schools offer improvement??? Hey, that's more than enough to discredit you, I've never said ALL charter schools are bad.
One of the "great" charter schools with private donations has been featured on this channel, accurate report. KIPP got tons of money from Bill Gates. The ONE good charter school close to me have got extra private donations.
robertmike57 5 months ago
@robertmike57 - I think the irony of that second sentence of yours speaks for itself.
And I do not deny that businessmen are more than happy to assist in helping the youth of America get an education. I have yet to see however evidence that indicates that charter schools deliver less per dollar spent - especially over time.
StateExempt 5 months ago
@robertmike57 Nice try. Ravitch's "expertise" (along with her rants about "right wing attacks on teachers unions") is subject to debate and you have completely mischaracterized her research, which said nothing about illusory improvements and indicated that 17% of charter schools showed marked improvement and 46% were no worse. As it happens, that study was included in the meta-analysis I already referenced and found not to be indicative of the greater body of research on the subject.
FletchforFreedom 4 months ago
@StateExempt BTW, I HAVE studied the Indiana Dept of Education numbers for all schools in the state. MY study shows almost ALL charter schools are shit. But if you believe Waiting for Superman, propganda from KIPP schools and the fraud cunt Michele Rhee, you'll believe anything.
robertmike57 5 months ago
@robertmike57 - Great, now all you have to do is look at nationwide studies that show that within a few years of starting up, all charter schools outperform their public school counterparts.
Public schools are beyond mediocre, and have been for some time. But don't take my word for it:
watch?v=7tck77z3x0I
StateExempt 5 months ago
@oJKBo I have a feeling that's the backroom reason why vouchers are being pushed as a 'solution'.
TheHigherVoltage 5 months ago
I couldn't listen to this with the "winning" and "boom" bullshit. It was embarassing and I'm sympathetic to the cause.
Tidoublemy 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Ron Paul 2012!
johammbass 5 months ago
This is well known but the Unions have everyone by the balls.
REWHBLCAIN 5 months ago