David Cameron lost the plot. Real fathers for justice

[ButterflyLullabyLtd]

Children should have a say and they deserve to see both parents, if that is what they want! I was given the choice at four years old "do you want to stay with Mummy or go with Daddy?" I chose my Mum. And I am so glad I did because we have an amazing step Dad that has never let us down. However, I always felt my heart had been ripped in two because I wanted both parents. My heart did not heal until I had my child. I wish my real Dad did not drink, then maybe he would not have let us down!

[ButterflyLullabyLtd]

I wish all the good fathers luck! I hope children get to have a say in whether they want to see their Dad or not as this should be up to them not their Mother.

[petepower3]

This was a PR stunt to deflect the blame of the riots from incompetent government to absent fathers. The family justice system encourages desperation, drug and alcohol abuse, and suicide. It pushes fathers away. It is an evil system.

[2012Aragorn]

Yes so now the evil bastard Cameron is deliberately planning to further punish those fathers who have been victim to this system of madness. This is criminal activity masquerading as "good governing". This is Treason!

[BlackNeon9]

not a bad video, as a dad who was abused emotionally and physically by his girlfriend for months and months i find myself in a situation.. please feel free to copy and distribute my attack on david Cameron's statement... youtube address /watch?v=S9zCsHqbYIY&feature=p­layer_embedded

[mumsnet1969]

you still have this male propaganda up



[BlackNeon9]

@mumsnet1969 you should see my attack on Cameron's statement if you think this is bad :-) /watch?v=S9zCsHqbYIY&feature=p­layer_embedded

[SuperPais]

@mumsnet1969 You set up an account , only to bash fathers??? Now, that is hate

[MLJ1219]

I worry about 18-25 yr old men They think they r 10 ft tall & bulletproof. They say they won't let woman lead them around by nose. If she gets pregnant or screams dom violence she will own u and your nose. Send a mess 2 jackass politicians. Vote every incumbent out of office. Don't vote your wallet r your party line, vote all incumbents out. Send a mess that they & liberal press will understand. Men r tired of bias, unfair laws against men. Shouting is now dom violence n UK. Who will benefit?

[MLJ1219]

There r no statistics for the # of men who raise their kids while sending support cks 2 moms. Cosmo mag '92 issue stated 25% of all women give up their kids & felt euphoric & empowered 2 do so. You won't hear feminazis, manginas r politicians quoting that article. Tell all dads 2 vote all incumbents out of office. What's next, another new law 2 cut off a man's legs if he fails to pay support? Cameron & fems would say that's an excellent idea. Support isn't about children, it's about votes.

[TheJammykiller]

yes i do and yes he is, are you proud of your kids? growing up into a society based on your "drivel" and feminist driven lies. You go on about "male deserters" but nothing about female deserters, there is thousands or single fathers out there doing their best to put food on the table for their kids after the MUM has deserted them, women leave their families just for money and you want to defend them? You make me sick. Whore.

[mumsnet1969]

typical of a male group. Letting women be abused

[lillie1990am]

David Cameron will say anything to be re elected, most elected officials will. This is beyond hate speech and cruel to the children as well. Why it is not only being tolerated but promoted is beyond comprehension.

[mumsnet1969]

more male drivel. seperated dads are a waste of breath!

go on you cameron

[TheJammykiller]

@mumsnet1969 its bitches like you who take everything from husbands and steal their kids from them, only letting them see them for 2 hours on saturdays. You're the type of person causing the seperated dads. YOU ARE A WHORE.

[mumsnet1969]

@TheJammykiller and you base this assumption on what? If you are whats called a dead beat dad then i can see why.If you see your children for 2hrs then thats 2 too long to use to brainwash them with anti women abuse

[TheJammykiller]

@mumsnet1969 hahaha i'm 14 babe. 14 and i can already tell its women like YOU who take the rights away from men to see their children. You're whats tearing Britain apart. Fucking feminists. LOVE YOOOO

[mumsnet1969]

@TheJammykiller and at 14 you know the whole truth,i bet your daddys really happy with you

[mavrickscar]

Respect for everything is appropriate. I never ran on my kids, but it was so tough I never blamed a man that did. If you want your position respected. Respect anothers, you can't know what they have been through, or would deal with to stay. I have a large capacity for pain and abuse. A very large empathy for abandoned children, from being abandoned at 4 yrs old myself. Then stepparent abuse, till running away at 15. I felt worse to leave the kids, than to deal with the horrors of the courts.

[nodaysoffmum]

they attend all their activities, and nothing is disrupted. i think its great except for the fact that i never get out, only to go to work. this works for him because he gets 4 days a week off,7 nights a week off, and about 10 weeks a year off. if i don't mind saying so myself that's a bloody good deal for him,so why cause pain with empty threats. all that free babysitting, and beer time, come on. if i want to go out it costs 6 quid an hour. and he gets all that for £500 a month.

[nodaysoffmum]

@nodaysoffmum

oh and i always bear in mind that his daughter from 1st marriage was not spoken to for 4 years because he had his wages arrested. she was 7 and challenged him on not paying.so he walked away . i can never ignore that potential in someone. the law rightly should protect all innocent victims, mothers and fathers and kids on a case by case basis, every story is different, but leopards and their spots???

[nodaysoffmum]

cameron is right, men who leave their families should be named and shamed. the families left behind should be protected. custody and acces , well the mum didnt want time away from the kids so why should she have to give up time with them. children have the, right to not be dragged from pillar to post to fit in with their father.they have the right to not have their lives disrupted. if these men are so passionate about their kids they would not have left them. you accept the consequences

[helobelow]

@nodaysoffmum We are passionate about our kids. We are not passionate about a disgruntled scorn women that feels her life is in shambles. Then all that anger she has towards the father is seen by and projected on the kids whether you see it or not. I think the kids should immediately be removed from the mother presenting that kind of environment for the children. A man in a new relationship is happy and thats what the kids see. A women angry at the father exudes hate that the kids need not see

[nodaysoffmum]

@helobelow

hey, when your left with 6 kids you have every right to be a wee bit disgruntled. and angry at the selifishness. some men do just jump ship without reason..well for the pursuit of their happiness. are you saying that people who have been hurt and yes had their lives destroyed should just say well thats ok bud, i just stopped the hurt escalating. no one takes my kids away from me.. i wanted them . some guys just cant hack family life. oh by the way, he has other kids he left

[nodaysoffmum]

Respond to this v the reality is some men collect families , my ex is now onto his 3rd, its an ego thing. in not scornful to him just quietly protective of exposing my kids to serial broken relationships. whats that teaching anyone

[helobelow]

@nodaysoffmum Hey I dont get how shaming any parent would benefit any one in any way actually. Ask yourself this....how does it benefit me, self gratification perhaps? I cant see any other reason. The kids benefit? My Dad's a creep, loser that left. Oh thats great for their self esteem or again is it self gratification that the kids now resent him? Hey I think I have the solution to all this...Lets just paint a big bright Scarlet Letter on the forehead of all these parents and stone them...

[nodaysoffmum]

@helobelo

this is how it goes, its doesnt benefit me spiritually to point out anyone's shame, i n my case my view is taht daddy is a great guy, i dont put him down, dont argue with him i just stand up for what i believe in, so far its been respected. but how do i get on with peace of mind when the regular threats re money and taking them away from me pop up.he sees them at home(our home ) 3 days a week, i go to work and kids are in their own community, own home , friends and routine

[helobelow]

@nodaysoffmum Well Im not familiar with Scottish laws and every case is unique. I was just responding to your comment that "Cameron is right and parents should be shamed and named." I disagree because the court systems inherently cant do anything right, so why give them opportunity to mess yet another thing up? Had these laws not been implemented I have faith people could actually work it out themselves. The courts should be used when a parent is unwilling to mediate or takes rash measures.

[nodaysoffmum]

@helobelow

yes but sadly all too often one parent uses court to harm the other and its not about the child in the end. its why I feel so strongly about upholding family values, I agree with Cameron on that. I am holding out for sensible mediation in my case , some of the stuff my solicitor told me was bonkers . haven't wasted my time or money since. I just ignore anything that's not child focussed... works for me. doesn't help you though

[helobelow]

@nodaysoffmum On this I do agree. The only ones getting rich are the officers(public servants) of the courts at the expense of our kids and their futures, by creating this dissent among separated parents and using money as the catalyst to ignite a fire!

[nodaysoffmum]

@helobelow

if only there were no "rights" just plain old common decency and sense. reality is that no one wants to admit they are wrong about anything they have done. in most cases its just a lack of communication, if there are any laws that should be compulsory. compulsory mediation and the law should require that cases should be on individual merit. my case simply comes down to that.

[nodaysoffmum]

Respond to this video...

talking and listening and understanding cost nothing except time

[barghumer]

As a father, and victim of this mess, I thought it was all about me. As I read more, I started to think it was about equality and positive discrimination for women. As I read more, in combination with other non-related matters (climate chage for instance) it became clear that this issue is really about social engineering on a worldwide scale (western), This is on the scale of the Eugenics of last century but is more covert. It is good to deal with smoke but it is the fire that is the problem!

[theshillelaghlaw]

Reading what other men have gone through I have to consider myself extremely lucky that I saw it coming and took the opportunity to build a file and collect witnesses.

If it weren't for that I very much doubt I'd have a fair and balanced custody arrangement for my daughter.

The only thing I was unable to achieve was saving my son from what very much seemed like a vengeance abortion.

[justsomefellow2]

Runaway dads are stigmatized already, they're called dead beat dads. You never hear the term dead beat mom though. Instead of putting people in jail for waving to their children (Mark Harris) ,or wishing them Happy Birthday (Dave Hawksworth) they need to put parents in jail that deny court ordered access.

[SuperPais]

Well , I see hope in this part of Mr Cameron speach : " Mr Cameron said traditional family life was the "cornerstone of our society" and that even when parents were separated, fathers had a duty to support "financially and emotionally" their children, spending time with them at weekends, attending nativity plays and taking an interest in their education "

I agree (more or less) with this, mainly the last part.

[nodaysoffmum]

@SuperPais

i agree , but can a law force a dad to prioritise kids over sex and beer, they should be ordered to spend every waking minute they are not working on their kids . mums don't get time off

[SuperPais]

@nodaysoffmum To that misandric comment, I must say to you that if Men have sex, is because they do it , with women. Dont blame men of having sex, cause first of all its a natural thing, and second, they do it with women.

[padsterp]

I can relate to this. Makes me wonder in years to come, how society will view the systematic obliteration of Fathers rights, be they personal, social, or through the hideously inaccurately named 'Family Courts'. We can only keep fighting and hoping gents. Great vid, keep up the good work. Oh p.s There was a programme tonight on BBC4.. it will be on BBC iplayer for awhile I should imagine, called the Biology of Dads, worth a watch, about time the BBC did something for mens issues for a change.

[TOWgunner77]

Why can't society say something like if you get married and have kids please be sure that you truly mean it because a divorce will severely hurt your kids? Answer: because in a society that only glorifies immediate gratification and women over men, a women’s 'urge' to have sex and their bio drive to have kids and be "independent" overrides any other consideration...even innocent young children.

[helobelow]

Unfortunately some of these women that get left are simply insane (not all, some) they make a living situation impossible due to their irrational behavior, psychotic tendencies and anger issues projected onto the man which the courts still fail to recognize. I took all I could and went out of my way for visitation and she got away with no shows, false claims of fear and an exorbitant amount of court ordered child support(extortion) which was not in the child's best interest! Its fucking insane!

[jnixongo00]

@helobelow with tears in my eyes amen brutha

[nodaysoffmum]

@helobelow yes i am angry at having me and my kids life destroyed, extortion .... come on why should kids suffer , if you leave you need to pay . i know there are some bad woman out there but come on, the majority of us just want to bring up our kids in peace, not worrying about money because another woman is on the scene for example. . what's insane is trying to take kids away from the mother to fit them around the new life. even more insane that the courts think its OK

[helobelow]

@nodaysoffmum One I was never married. Two she said she was protected, three I didnt want a child...she decided to have it it should be her responsibility for that simple reason because I lost my freedom of choice! If a man wanted a child and a women has an abortion again he loses his freedom of choice. It's funny also that I was paying 500 a month for 1 child(no order) and she told me out of spite she could get more and was going to because I ended the relationship. She was right and got 830.

[nodaysoffmum]

@helobelow

god, i don't even get that, my issue is with men who want kids than think they can drag them through the next relationship until it no longer suits them., what's that teaching them. every one has a story. but if you really dont want kids in future take the protection responsibility on your shoulders. its not fair on the kids. not a fan of women like that

[helobelow]

@nodaysoffmum Now hows this for suffering to a child. I drive 50 miles for visitation consistantly and shes not there. The court order wasnt worth the paper it was written on by those fucks in the system! I say hang every one of those pricks. I got tired of wasting my time and gas so I moved to another state. How did she help the child love and affection for the father. The few times I saw my son I spent every second with him. The courts not only ruined that by no enforcement against her. She 2.

[helobelow]

@helobelow Now I'll offer you some advice. All that resentment that builds up from the lies shes feeding him throughout the years from her own anger will come crashing down on her eventually. On his 18th birthday there is nothing she can do to stop me from contacting him or vice versa. I have the videos of her hostilities towards me, slapping me, going insane and threatening me. Im sure she's not telling my boy that part. When he watches it in real time no amount of money will save her from that

[nodaysoffmum]

@helobelow

revenge achieves nothing, why wait til hes 18, there must have been love there once, surely. i'm all for dads having unlimited contact, in the kids life, just not the girlfriends and hangers on that come with it. if you do that to him he will despise you . i know it doesnt seem fair but he will.take the moral high ground. glad i keep my opinions my ex away from kids. i am just firm on the residence and custody and other woman issue. i hope thats not seen as alienation

[helobelow]

Respond to this video... Child alienation by a non custodial parent should be dealt with as severely as non-support. The support amounts are ridiculous in some cases and not in others. The committees that the state governments have set up to determine support amounts are grossly negligent and out of touch. When you kill the cash cow dont be surprised when your out of milk! Yes a child needs money, but there are poor families that do just fine with tons of love and affection. Thats a dad

[nodaysoffmum]

@helobelow

i live in scotland, different system here, but you have to persist. no point giving up. its a test trust me. the trick is to be consistent and think, maybe she is afraid of losing the kid, reassure her and if she is decent she will trust you in time. best to just communicate honestly and compassionately then you know you have done your best. lawyers are the only winners when you involve them.

[helobelow]

@nodaysoffmum No I tried that that and logic does not work with the psychotic. The only thing she will understand is when the truth comes crashing in on her from within. When my son witnesses first hand the insanity I had to deal with for 4yrs. Im sure he will hold her solely accountable for me not being in his life, although I do accept some responsibility. I left 8yrs ago out of fear that I would be accused of something much more sinister than the charges that I was eventually vindicated of...

[nodaysoffmum]

@helobelow

hey I have spent four years banging my head off a brick wall, i know where your coming from.but I have been accused of similar by my ex, and it hurts when your doing your best. i try to be forgiving . in my case he just doesn't want to accept the moral issue , and resents paying.still pays but would be nicer if it wasn't with resentment. , or threats. I'm not psychotic by the way. keep trying please , its giving up that gives dads a bad name. he wont by the way, she'.s his mum

[pinegrove33]

that was a sickening statement by Cameron. F him! good video and great channel!

[doozytube]

Great informative video. It's typical of a Government to renege on their promises to fathers made while in opposition, and seeking votes. RFFJ keep up the fight. Fathers, Mothers, brothers & sisters, join the fight. Our countries children need you !

[justsomefellow2]

Shame on David Cameron. I think random drug testing for politicians is in order.

[anontwelve]

Contrast Camerons comments with this:

"Mr Donnison was left in "complete disbelief" when he had returned home to find she had moved out without warning, taking the children with her."

"She then waited...with two kitchen knives she had brought with her, intending to kill Mr Donnison and blame the children’s deaths on him, it is alleged."

“The Crown says that the killing of the children was an act of retaliation or revenge against the father intending to cause him the maximum hurt possible.”