Мы таджики мудрый народ, мы уважаем своих соседей, мы любим их и приветствуем как родных братьев. Мы смотрели так, у нас великая ИСТОРИЯ мы перси мы арийцы мы индо европейцы мы же дары из иранских народов так же мы ТАДЖИКИ носители короны, наш символ эта лев и корона. А у наших братьев ну узбаков нет не чего. бедные даже у монголов украли Темирланга *( Так мы своих родных в беду не оставили не когда и мы им дали Самарканд и Бухору ))) что бы их имя светил в ИСТОРИЮ ( продолжение следуе
@TheForstj Т) Что бы о них знал мир, что бы их уважали. Смотрите кроме МОНГОЛСКОГО Темирлана и таджикской архитектуры, поэзии, культуры, и многое другое.. есть у них что не будь ? Нет, я не чего о узбеков больше не знаю ))) Я горжусь что я таджик! и с нетерпением жду своих городов САМАРКАНД И БУХАРА
У вас даже питьевой воды нету! Вы не благодарные не видите доброту таджиков к вам и этим вы доказывайте свою слабость. Ваша история не реальная что бы узнать кто вы. Читайте историю ТАДЖИКОВ ! )
@QoziKalon Зато города таджикские ! и их строили мы ! )) а не ваши трюки и кстати если бы ТЮРКИ НЕ брали бы эти города то было бы там еще красивее и чудеснее !
Исследование показало, что в человеческой истории до 1929 года, когда Таджикская ССР была выведена из состава Узбекской ССР, где она находилась в качестве автономной республики, в качестве союзной республики СССР, никакого государства ни под названием Таджикистан и ни под названием Тазикистан или Тазикия, не было. И тем более такого таджикского государства, в которое входили бы такие величественные города, как Самарканд и Бухара.
сами тоже начали называть этим термином, не только их, но и тех иранских воинов, которые пришли на их территорию вместе с арабскими завоевателями, помогая им добиться своих целей. Целей завоевания Средней Азии и покорения тюркских народов, обитающих на этой территории.
ТАЗИКАМИ (tazik) на востоке иранского мира называли арабские армии, которые вторглись в VIII веке на их территории под знаменем джихада. Но в арабо-мусульманском завоевании Средней Азии рядом с собственно арабскими войсками в массовом порядке участвовали и персоязычные новообращенные мусульмане из Фарса, Загроса и Хорасана. Поэтому тюркское население Средней Азии, зная от самих иранцев, что они арабов назвали ТАЗИКами,
ojjj oj oj rodina moja!!! kak zhalko 4to po iste4eniem ob´stojatelstw ja ne tam sei4as!!!! u menja kom w gorle ne powerite!! i eshe pesni AVRAAMA TOLMASOWA rebja kto sdelal etot klip rahmat shimoba salomat boshet usto!!!!
@FarruxUzAz Я с вами полностью согласен. Казахов и киргизов сартами никто никогда не называл. Я кстати нигде в своих постах не говорил что казахов или киргизов называли сартами. Сарт и кочевник понятия взаимоисключающие.
@FarruxUzAz Ну за это отчасти можно сказать "спасибо" Советам. Благодаря им название узбеки до того применяемое только к собственно кочевым и полу-кочевым узбекам говорящим на кипчакских диалектах стало применяться к тюркоязычным сартам - оседлому тюрко-иранскому населению говорящему на карлукских и огузских диалектах. И узбекским языком был обьявлен тюркский язык сартов а не кипчакский говор собственно узбеков.
@FarruxUzAz Но на сегодняшний день нас правомочно называть узбеками так как слово в общем то поменяло свое значение. Если в начале 20 века термин "узбек" означал кочевого или полукочевого потомка кипчакских племен пришедших в Среднюю Азию с Шейбани ханом, то сегодня под этим названием подразумевают прежде всего тюркоязычных сартов тюрко-иранского происхождения. Так часто бывает, этноним меняет значение. Бывает что на протяжении истории название остается одним, а народы носящие его меняются.
@FarruxUzAz Собственно поэтому узбекам (я имею ввиду сартов) таджики гораздо ближе казахов и киргизов. У нас общая культура, религия, музыка, одежда, обычаи, кухня. Видимая разница только в языке и изредка в некоторых внешних чертах, а в тех регионах где узбеки и таджики живут смешанно разница во внешности тоже стирается. У нас общие предки - древнее иранское население Средней Азии, хотя в узбеках так же большое количество тюркской крови.
@QoziKalon, ya was jivu v uzbekistane ya i dumat ne dumal wto est i takie uzbeki, i ih mnogo i razgovarivayut budto na kazahskom, i oni mne ne nravyatsa iz za svoey kakoy to beskulturnym povedeniem daje ded moy govoril na nih befarhangi ghert hayvonholar, nu lana rahmat za otvety
@FarruxUzAz , da kstati v gorode Shahristan eto tojikistan toje projivayut uzbeki, napominayut ko4evnikov, zato razgovarivayut po nawemu! A vy v znaete pro nih?
QoziKalon) - Кроме этого среди сартов российские этнографы различали курама — оседлых степняков, проживающих преимущественно в переходящих районах, разделяющих место обитания кочевников и собственно сартов. Слово "сарт" в отношении нынешних узбеков чаще всего используют их соседи туркмены, каракалпаки, киргизы и казахи, исключение таджики
QoziKalon) - Ввиду вышеизложенного выражению "сарт" придаётся в одних случаях смысловая нагрузка, значимая как "неоднородная, смешанная", в других в более поздних случаях как "безродная", подразумевая отказ сартов об обычая не вступать в родство до седьмого колена, которое строго соблюдается по сей день среди соседних кочевых племен. Из-за исторического отсутствия закона седьмого колена у таджиков по аналогию иногда и таджиков называют сартами, что в корне неправильно.
QoziKalon - Сартов иногда разделяют на тюркоязычных сартов и персоязычных сартов. При этом не надо ставить знак равенства между персоязычными сартами и таджиками ввиду их разного происхождения. Так иногда персоязычными сартами становились представители малых народностей преимущественно тюркского происхождения длительно проживающих в населенных пунктах где доминирует таджикский этнос и позаимствоваших их язык.
QoziKalon <<<< Хахаха ты что-то попутала таджики никогда не были Сартами, может ты имела ввиду тех Иранцев проживающие в Узбекистане, вот они точно относятся к сартам так как у них этнос таджикский а своим родным языком считают узбекский. в книге четко и ясно написано что означает слово САРТ - это без роду без племени, то есть те люди у кого не было своего рода, они перемешались и у них образовалась нация. а Таджики испокон веков имели свой род и они не относятся к сартам.
QoziKalon <<<< Хахаха ты что-то попутала таджики никогда не были Сартами, может ты имела ввиду тех Иранцев проживающие в Узбекистане, вот они точно относятся к сартам так как у них этнос таджикский а своим родным языком считают узбекский. в книге четко и ясно написано что означает слово САРТ - это без роду без племени, то есть те люди у кого не было своего рода, они перемешались и у них образовалась нация. а Таджики испокон веков имели свой род и они не относятся к сартам.
QoziKalon <<<< Хахаха ты что-то попутала таджики никогда не были Сартами, может ты имела ввиду тех Иранцев проживающие в Узбекистане, вот они точно относятся к сартам так как у них этнос таджикский а своим родным языком считают узбекский. в книге четко и ясно написано что означает слово САРТ - это без роду без племени, то есть те люди у кого не было своего рода, они перемешались и у них образовалась. а Таджики испокон веков имели свой род и они не относятся к сартам.
@camomilleable11 Сартами кочевники называли и таджиков и оседлых тюрок. Изначально название это применялось исключительно к иранскому населению средней азии. Еще при Чингисхане таджикских купцов монголы называли сартаульскими купцами. Позднее так стали называть и оседлых тюрок. Сегодня применяется в основном к узбекам казахами и киргизами.
@QoziKalon, TVOI POZNANIYA V ISTORII DELAYUT TEBYA SMEWNYM I NEDALEKIM, SIDI I NE VYAKAY NIKOGDA KIRGIZOV QAZAHOV SARTAMI IMI NAZYVALI OSEDLYH UZBEKOV 4ASTI4NO TAJIKOV RAVNINNYH I UYGUROV TOJE 4ASTI4NO
@FarruxUzAz Во первых для того что бы вас заметили вовсе не обязательно печатать все заглавными буквами. Во вторых не надо мне тыкать. В третьих укажите на мои ошибки если таковые имеются. В четвертых, я нигде не говорил что киргизов и казахов называли сартами. В пятых, если говорите что таджик и узбек враги на век то говорите за себя. Я узбек и таджикский народ врагом не считаю, и есть таджики которые не считают узбеков врагами. У нас враг общий, нацики с обеих сторон и те кто нас стравливает.
@FarruxUzAz Вот видите, сначала оскорбили меня и обвинили в не знании истории. А потом когда я попросил конкретно указать где я ошибаюсь опять слышу от вас оскорбления. Оскорбления и переход на личности показывает человека у которого нет аргументов. Еще раз говорю, если вы не согласны с моей точкой зрения пишите конкретные претензии и обсудим тему. Оскорбления не опровергают мою точку зрения и не подтверждают вашу. Так что жду ответа.
@QoziKalon, TVOI POZNANIYA V ISTORII DELAYUT TEBYA SMEWNYM I NEDALEKIM, SIDI I NE VYAKAY NIKOGDA KIRGIZOV QAZAHOV SARTAMI NE NAZYVALI IMI NAZYVALI OSEDLYH UZBEKOV 4ASTI4NO TAJIKOV RAVNINNYH I UYGUROV TOJE 4ASTI4NO
@camomilleable11 Сарт для кочевников действительно может означать человека без рода и племени. Потому что в отличии от кочевников оседлый человек обычно не помнит всех своих предков ограничиваясь дедами, прадедами, прапрадедами. Потому что для оседлого, городского человека родо-племенные отношения не имеют значения. У урбанизированного, городского населения нет родо-племенных отношений. При оседлом образе жизни в развитом обществе племенные различия стираются.
@camomilleable11 Так например еще советские этнографы находили в казахских юртах списки предков вплоть до Адама!! Для кочевых народов это имеет огромное значение. До сих пор многие казахи при встрече друг с другом могут просчитать степень своего родства. У оседлых узбеков и таджиков этого нет. Им это не нужно, у них был другой образ жизни и способ производства. Есть отдельные люди которые знают многие поколения своих предков но основная масса население не может.
@camomilleable11 Возьми 10 случайных городских таджиков и узбеков и спроси могут ли они назвать по именам 10 поколений своих предков. Врядли смогут. А очень многие казахи и киргизы могут. Это не значит что одни глупее или хуже других. Все обусловленно способом производства и образом жизни: оседлым земледелием и ремеслом или кочевым скотоводством. То в чем нет нужды отбрасывается.
@camomilleable11 Испокон веков свой род имеет каждый народ а не только таджики. Ни один народ не свалился с луны а естественно произошел от кого то. В основной массе узбеки и таджики не знают больше 4-5 поколений предков. Исключения есть но они редки. Если рассматривать исторических предков я могу поименно просчитать всех своих предков до I в н.э. Если рассматривать легендарных то могу просчитать до Адама. Но как я сказал эти случаи исключения. Оседлому населению это бесполезно.
@camomilleable11 А вы за всех таджиков не говорите. У узбеков нет народов ближе чем таджики и уйгуры. Большинство узбеков и таджиков живут бок о бок, мирно, по братски. Так было веками. А националисты с обоих сторон настаивая на собственной исключительности толкают только к крови и разрушениям. Если вы лично не согласны быть братом узбекам то это ваше личное дело. Для меня все люди братья, какой бы нации, расы или веры они не были. Чего и вам желаю.
@camomilleable11 bratan uzbeki oni bratya xotya bi potomu 4to oni musulmani.. plyun ti na segodneshniy politi4eskuyu nestabilnost mejdu Tj i Uz.. v budeshem tak i tak mi budem drujit
@Olimhon888 , MY NIKOGDA DRUJIT NE BUDEM VY TEMNAYA NACIYA RAVSHANY I DJAMSHUTY! Vas zakleymili na doooolgie 10-ki let esli ne sotni! tak wto ta4ik i Uzbek - vragi na vek!!!!!!
Я недавно прочла одну книгу и там четко и ясно сказано кто такие узбеки. Узбеки - сарты, сарты это люди без роду без племени. Ихни братья это казахи, киргизи, каракалпаки, туркмены, уйгуры.
@camomilleable11 Сарты это не этноним. То есть это не название нации. Это определение образа жизни. В Средней Азии сартами кочевники называли оседлое население (включая таджиков) в независимости от национальности. Сами киргизы говорили что плохой киргиз становится сартом (то есть меняет кочевую жизнь на оседлую в городе). Есть узбеки ведущие полукочевой образ жизни а были и кочевники, и сартами они никак не являлись. А например коренные узбеки Ташкента или Андижана - сарты.
@camomilleable11 Изначально термин сарты применялся только к оседлому персоязычному населению, но не к оседлым тюркам. Так в Бабур-наме Бабур описывает область Ферганы и города этой области. Так описывая Андижан он пишет что жители Андижана все тюрки. А описывая Исфару пишет что жители Исфары сарты и говорят по персидски. То есть в то время тюрок живших в городах сартами не называли, а звали так только таджиков. Позже термин стал применяться ко всем оседлым жителям.
QoziKalon <<< Узбеки не относятся к персам, и у них нет ничего общего с персами. Узбеки это кочевники смесь с тюрками и монголами просто очень сильная ассимиляция пошла с таджиками что порой внешний вид придает какую то современность. Узбекский язык составляет 40-45 процентов из таджикских слов, и все что щас имеют узбеки у них все ворованное от таджиков также как развитие ремесло. ткачество, земледелие, строительство, переработка золота, хлебные изделия.
@camomilleable11 Никто ничего ни у кого не воровал. Просто узбеки потомки ираноязычного местного населения Средней Азии и тюрок. Естественно что народы живущие бок о бок и смешивающиеся почем зря перенимают друг у друга полезные навыки. А то что узбеки не относятся к персам то с этим никто не спорит.
@furuzon77 Samarqand and Bukhara were ruled by the Uzbeks long before the Russians arrived, let alone Bolsheviks. Bolsheviks used an army to remove Uzbek Emir from the throne. The region had Turkic rulers for the past 1000 years. There were no Tajik dynasties ruling the area since Samanids. It is a fact.
@furuzon77 Also your statement that Uzbeks are Mongols is entirely incorrect. Uzbeks are Turkic. Mongols are not. Majority of Uzbeks belong to Iranid race (Памиро-Ферганская раса) despite Turkic language. Same race as Tajiks dare I remind you. Uzbeks of today are primarily a mixture of ancient Iranic population of Central Asia and Turkic tribes that arrived later.
Which university is the most knowledgeable in these matters (oriental) people/ ethnographica? From where you have your great openess to these matters?
@cphmadsen It's hard for me to say which university in the West is best when it comes to ethnography. I myself studied at University of Oriental Studies in Tashkent.
@QoziKalon Вообще я заметил, что Узбеки например Ташкента, Самарканда, Хорезма, Бухары сильно различаются от Узбеков Ферганы, Намангана и т.д. Антропологически, Менталитет другой, да и не долюбливаете вы друг-друга. Выходить Узбеки это конгломерат народов??
@QoziKalon Вообще я заметил, что Узбеки например Ташкента, Самарканда, Хорезма, Бухары сильно различаются от Узбеков Ферганы, Намангана и т.д. Антропологически, Менталитет другой, да и не долюбливаете вы друг-друга. Выходить Узбеки это конгломерат народов??
@DilshodTajik Согласен. Узбеки смесь различных этносов, и отличаются друг от друга в разных регионах. Как и многие другие народы состоят из субэтносов которые могут недолюбливать друг друга но тем не менее осознают свое единство.
@DilshodTajik Французы так же состоят из субэтносов которые к тому же говорят на разных языках. Бретонцы, провансальцы и др. Немцы и итальянцы тоже разделены на недолюбливающие друг друга группы. Бухарские таджики до недавнего времени недолюбливали горных таджиков.
@DilshodTajik В Средней Азии вообще землячество имеет большее значение чем национальность. Люди больше преданы своему городу (региону) чем стране. Как древние греки. Афиняне, спартанцы, коринфяне терпеть не могли друг друга. Но за общегреческое дело воевали сообща.
Assalomu Aleykum, QoziKalon. I read many comments here and some are good points.
QoziKalon, you stated you are Uzbek. I have a question to you: what city you were born and raised? Sorry if you already mentioned it here - I wasn't able to find it. Hurmat ila, Spitamen.
Which universities to you would be the most knowledgeable in matters of these amazing amouint of different people?
And from you prespective: Linguistic, religious, economical, ethnic, historic, religious differences...do you know how many 'sets' are there?...architecturally, music, clothing, kitchen, massive matrix...Carl
@cphmadsen I apologize it took me awhile to get back to you. I am currently not in the area of Samarqand and Bukhara, and live in United States. Originally I am from Tashkent, Uzbekistan. But I do have a lot of family in Samarqand region. As far as your second question, I'm afraid I'm not fully understanding it. Would you mind may be rephrasing it. Thank you.
The singer is Avrom Tolmasov. He is a very famous Bukharian Jewish singer. The song is in a dialect of Persian language. The one spoken by Tajiks and Bukharian Jews. He also has songs in Uzbek.
All right, muslim brothers. Tajiks and Uzbeks are brothers. All muslim are one nation. And who put himself above others Allah will make that person worse than a worm. And nationalism is haram. When one sahaba came to jamaat where rasulullah SAV existed and said his nationality, Rasulullah SAV said that "Leave it, it stinks". So all talk about nations stink. What happened Sam. & Bukh. was by wish of Allah. And Allah is the Hakeem.
Im Tajik from Samarkand. And Isay friends, lets not to be stupid and hate each other, we shall all die but land will stay. Land is not ours, we blong to land. Such as Samarkand and Bukhoro was there for ever and ppl from all over the plase have past there.Just think majority ppl r muslims, means Arabs were there too
Tajik speaking and uzbek speaking families live side by side in villages, towns, and cities in Bukhara province. There is no defining line, who is uzbek or who is tajik. They have been marrying each other for hundreds of years, so everyone is mixed. This is also not true, that city population is tajik and suburbs are populated by uzbeks. Almost every part of Bukhar region, like Shafirkon, Gijduvon, Romitan, Vobkent etc, are ancient places, where people speak both tajik and uzbek.
Don't confuse nomadic Uzbeks of Shaybani with Uzbeks of today. Today Uzbek is a common name for all settled Turks of Central Asia. In 16th century Uzbek meant a Qipchaq speaking nomad from the Golden Horde. When they came to Central Asia they were like a drop in the sea of local Turkic population. They gave their name to local Turks, who spoke a Qarluq Turkic, just like Uighurs. Qarluq dialect is a basis of modern literary Uzbek language.
It is very similar to what happened to the French. Their name derives from Franks, a Germanic tribe who conquered Roman Gaul. Locals spoke a dialect of Latin, and where not Germanic. However, they adopted the name of the Germanic tribe that took over their land. Franks completely dissolved among the locals. Same thing happened to Qipchaq speaking Uzbeks, who almost entirely dissappeared among Qarluq speaking local Turks. I am Uzbek, but I know for fact that my ancestor lived here before 16th cen
Actually, that is not correct. They had been living in Bukhara. There were Ashina Turks who came there in 5th cent. In the 6th cent. a rebel Turkic prince Toremen made Bukhara his capital. In Iranian sources he is known as Abruy. He was a cruel ruler therefore the people of Bukhara sent a message to Qara Churin, the ruler of Turks asking to defend them. Read "History of Bukhara" by Narshahi, who by the way was a Tajik. It describes the whole story.
Qara Churin came to Bukhara, defeated and executed Abruy. After that Bukhara was a part of the empire of Ashina Turks until their downfall. You have to remember the Samanids who bought Turkic slaves for their army, and had Turkic generals. Obviously those Turkic soldiers lived in Bukhara. Then there were Karakhanid Turkic dynasty, then Turkic Khwarazmshahs, then after the Mongol rule there were Turkic Timurids, and then Turkic Shaybanids. So, Turkic presence in Bukhara lasted since 5th cent.
Are you some racist redneck from US? Your site is very anti islamic. 99% of Iran is muslim and over 93% of Uzbekistan is Muslim. so who are you representing?
I would not claim all of that architecture to be Persian. Central Asian and Iranian art is a product of collective effort of numerous Persian, Tajik, and Turkic artists. So, your claims that it is all Persian are racist. Just because Central Asia and Iran have similar culture and art does not mean that it is all Persian or all Tajik or all Turkic. Ancestors of all three people created all that.
k first of all, do you even know what racism means? it means discriminating against a group of peoples because of their skin color. so please tell me how what i said was racist in ANY way.
SECOND of all, yea they are Persian because these cities were built BY persians when all those areas were ruled by iran a long time ago, thats what makes them persian architecture. AND i didn't claim all, as you can see i said most.
Lol. Now we are getting to the point when I'm going to prove you wrong and prove that you don't know history. Most of the buildings we see here were build under Timurid rule and after. Timurids were Turkic and ruled conquered Iran as well. Moreover, all of these buildings were build during Islamic period of Central Asian history. And Iran never ruled this area during Islamic period. The last time Iran ruled the area was before Alexander arrived. So go back to school buddy))
the cities itself where built long before that and persians did build the city. as for the structures there, you might be right, but khwarezmian and even timurid empires they were turkic/persian so yea again you're probably right about the building. i know for fact they're persian architecture tho. and dont be stupid cuz like i said before, khwarezmian, seljuk, ruled those areas at the time.
Persians did not build these cities. Soghdians did. Soghdians were Iranic, but Iranic and Persian is not the same thing. Pashtuns are Iranic, Tajiks are Iranic. But are Pashtuns and Tajiks the same thing? No. Russians and Polish are Slavic. But are their the same nationality? No. Turks and Kazakhs are both Turkic. But are they the same thing? No.
Hmm.. I do believe Persians had a role on these cities. Btw, Persian doesnot mean Iranian. Persian simply means someone speaking Persian (Farsi/Dari) as their mother tongue. True, these architecture has little to do with Archemnian era, but, it has to do with Samanids.
The Samanids made Bukhara and Samarqand as Grand cities. Bukhara and Samarqand were considered the two most grand cities under Ismoil Somoni, who himself was a Tajik or Persian. One of your picture is also masoleum of him.
I'll have to disagree with that. Just because someone speaks Persian as a mother tongue does not make the person Persian. Hazaras in Afghanistan speak Persian as a mother tongue. Yet they are Mongols. Bukharan Jews speak it, yet they are Jews. Blacks in Jamaica speak English as a mother tongue. Yet they are not English. Blacks in Tahiti speak French. Many European Jews speak Yiddish, a Geman dialect. Language is a product of culture and can be transferred and adapted by different ethnic groups.
Samanids did have a great impact on Bukhara. Not as much on Samarqand. But what we see here now was mainly build by Timurids and after them. With the exception of some buildings. Tajik role in the history of both cities is huge. It would be a lie to deny it. But so was the Turkic role. Persian role was next to none though. Influence? Sure. But stating that Persians made these cities what they are is not correct for Persians have not ruled the area for over 2400 years.
Tajiks are Persians. Tajik=Persian. As I have said before, locally people referred to themselves by their tribe/birth place name, but foreigners used different word. "Persian" is a European word, "Tajik" I believe is a Turkic word, used by Turk-Mongols to refer to Persians.
Yes, I am not denying Turkic role, definitely Timurids played a big role on it, but Tajik/Persian also left an impact on these cities.
You have a fair point. Although, Hazaras I will say are an exception. I meant to say people who spoke "Persian" as mother tongue were 'recorded' in history as Persian. Many of great minds of historical Khurasan region were considered Persian becos of mother tongue, there were non-Persians too like Ulugh Beg.
Example: Imam Bukhari, among many others are recorded in history as Persian because of their mother tongue, though they have no ancestry tracing to modern-day Iran as per my knowledge.
Similar can be said about Mawlana (Rumi), Rudaki and numerous others. None of these people have ancestry tracing to modern-day Iran region, however, they are recorded as Persian, because they spoke Persian, all their works were in Persian.
Don't forget "Persian" is a foreign/European word. Locally people used to refer to them by their Tribe or birth place name.
Persia is greek word for Iran. And Iran is an old form of Arian or Aryan. Modern Day Iran is that used to be Persia. Also Irans name used to be Persian untill Reza Shah Pahlavi changed it. Please dont write comments without true facts.
I am not out of my mind.. I know that fact, please learn your own history before accusing me of ignorance. Persian and Tajik are both foreign word used to refer to Farsi/Dari speakers.
Locally people historically referred to themselves by their tribe or birth place. Someone from Shiraz would say he is "Shirazi", from Bukhara would be "Bukhari" etc. and so on.
In recent years (100 yrs or more), however things have changed. Now, mostly because of foreign influence, people do refer to themselves as "Persian" or "Tajik", but this wasn't always the case historically.
Hate to rain on your parade, but if you are Tajik you are not Persian. You are a Tajik. Just because your ancestors adapted Persian language which belongs to the Western group of Iranian languages as opposed to Sogdian (Northeastern group of Iranian languages) which they used to speak does not make you Persian. Sure, you can keep chanting about Aryans, Iran etc. I'm Uzbek, and thus Turkic. But I can't declare myself Ottoman Turk even if I wanted to.
Various ethnic groups adapt languages of their neighbors all the time. There are Turkified Iraninans and Persianised Turks in Central Asia. Bukharan Jews speak a dialect of Persian as a mother tongue, but it does not change the fact that they are Semites. Majority of population of Ireland speaks English as a mother tongue, and original Irish language is only spoken by a tiny minority. Language change is a common case. But changing your tongue does not change you.
So, you are saying Tajiks are not Persian..lol. ok. Unless you can rewrite history, that's not going to work.
Also, according to you Azeris, Anatolian, and countless other Turks shouldn't be considered Turks as well, because vast majority of them adopted Turkic culture, language. Even DNA Testing has shown that Turks of Turkey are closer to Europeans than to Central Asian Turks. Ethnicity cannot always be used to define someones identity.
Actually, to the contrary. Azeris, Anatolians and many others should be considered Turkic for "Turkic" is a linguistic term. Just like Tajiks and Persians should be considered Iranic for it is also a linguistic term. But Tajiks and Persians cannot be considered to be the same just like Uzbeks and Anatolians Turks are not the same, just like Polish and Russian are not the same, just like Spaniards and French are not the same. And ethnicity can always be used to define a group. Everyone has it.
I have repeated this so many times. Please read my comments again. Tajik and Persian are both foreign words used to refer to Farsi/Dari speakers.
On many occasions, you will find, Mawlana, Saadi etc. used "Tajik" and "Persian" synonymously in the poetry.
Regarding "Iranic", I would agree if you said Pashtuns, Kurds, Tajiks etc., yes they are all Iranic. However, this doesnot apply to Tajik. Just read any book about Tajik and Persian history, you will know what I mean.
Regarding "ethnicity", it depends upon how one defines it.
I disagree it cannot be used exclusively to define a group, if you want to be consistent with history. Throughout history, many people have been Arabized, Turkified, Persianized etc. and so on. They would be considered Arab, Turk or Persian etc. even though they would have absolutely no relation with say the Arabs of Saudi, or Turks of Altaic mountains, or Persians of Pars province (origin of Persian people) in Iran.
Oh, I absolutely agree with the fact that many groups in the past have been absorbed by other ethnic groups. Turkified, Arabized, etc. But stating that Tajiks are Persian means to reject them their own identity. Just like stating the Uzbeks are Turks is rejecting their identity. That is where all Pan(Turkist, Iranist, Slavist, etc) ideas are ultimately flawed. We are not Turks, we are Uzbeks. Tajiks are not Persians, they are proud descendants of Sogdians, and not of Persians they once fought.
@QoziKalon and you know that the Tajiks Iranians communicate without interpreters and our languages the same at 99 percent, but you have the Turks can not live without an interpreter? because in your language more than words Tajik Turk! therefore incorrect to compare this with the Russian-Polish and Uzbeks, Turk! is quite another!
@furuzon77 Comparison to Russian and Polish is correct. Uzbeks cannot communicate with Anatolian Turks without an interpreter because it is a different group of Turkic languages. Just like Pashto is a different group of Iranian languages as opposed to Farsi. Uzbeks and Uighurs can communicate without an interpreter, because they belong to the same group. Tajiks cannot speak Pashto, yet both languages are Iranian.
Long Live Persia is not going to work. First of all, Persia you are talking about (the one that includes Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Pakistan etc) cannot live long. It's already dead. Killed by Alexander over 2000 years ago. What you have today is a country of Iran. You can look at the map and see the borders of Iran. It ain't growing. And if you see it growing you should seek professional help. Drugs are bad, mkay.
Ulugek was not a Persian and cannot be considered one. Besides, he was not a great mind of historical Khurasan. He ruled from Samarqand, which has never been a part of Khurasan. His father was Turkic and his mother came from an old Chagatay Turco/Mongol family. There are no historical records showing that he spoke Persian as his mother tongue. He wrote some books in Persian. But that's because Persian was a lingua franca of many countries of that time, not because it was his mother tongue.
I even heard once from a Persian that Ulugbek was Persian because he was born in Iran. Insane. He was born in Iran when his grandfathers army was on the march across that conquered foreign land. It does not make him Persian. If a dog gives birth in stables you can't say that her puppies are little horses, can you? Well, you get the point)
@seekknowledge9 yes these cities once 2000 years ago belonged to persian empire, and that explains why there are some persian looking people there, but the architecture in these wonderful citites are built by asian kings.
Just because you have the same type of buildings in Iran does not make this architecture Persian. It is a collective heritage of all peoples of this part of the Muslim world. Persians, Turks, Indians all had an influence on this type of architecture. Claiming that this style belongs to one ethnic group only is extreme nationalism. You are denying that non-Persian inhabitants are capable of creating anything this beautiful. That is exactly what we all hear from Persian nationalists on all videos.
Soghdians build the cities, not Persians. Iran is to the south of Amu Darya, never to the north of it. Soghdians were an Iranic people but they were not Persians. Just like Pashtuns are Iranic but they are not Tajiks who are also Iranic. And just like Persians and Kurds are not the same thing. The buildings you see here were build after the Mongols who destroyed the cities. So, they are not related to Achaemenid Iran in any way.
@QoziKalon мля узбаккк хоть в одном историческом памятнике есть узбакское название?нет и не было!ты здесь хуйню носишь!Самарканд и Бухара всегда были таджикскими а узбаки повились всего 500лет назад
@furuzon77 Не знаю как у вас гордых ариев, но у узбЕков не принято тыкать собеседнику, а тем более материться. Я еще ни разу не позволил себе здесь оскорблять таджиков, тыкать оппонетнам, или ругаться матом. Если вы считаете себя лучше узбеков то хоть ведите себя прилично.
@furuzon77 Кочевые узбеки 15 века говорили на кипчакском. Современные узбеки говорят на карлукском. Узбеки Шейбани хана и современные узбеки это два разных народа. Первый растворился в местном тюркоязычном населении не оставив даже языка.
@furuzon77 Современные узбеки в большинстве своем потомки древнего ираноязычного населения и тюрок большинство которых пришло в Среднюю Азию с Караханидами в 10 веке. Говорили они на карлукском диалекте, так же как узбеки сегодня.
@QoziKalon Prostite Pojalusta No Ne Tak. Ya Sam Tadjik Iz Samarkanda, Mojet Vi Podumayte Chto Ya Natsist Nedalublvuyu Uzbekov, Net U Menya Mnoga Druzey Uzbekov. Nashshot Uzbekov Yazik Uzbekskiy Poyavilsa V 14-15 Veke Nashiy Eri. Asnavatil Uzbekskova Yazika Alisher Navoiy. Vi Diljni Xorosho Znat Eto. I Odin Iz Predkov Uzbekov Sagdiytsi, Poetomu U Uzbekov I U Tadjikov Ochen Poxojaya Kultura I Obichiya. Na Samam Dele Uzbeki I Tadjiki Doljni Bili Bit Ochen Drujnimi No Iz Za Politiki Stradayut Narod.
We were same, which means, we can be brothers again now. Still Pan-Turkism is a futher part. Local alliences are still more important to ensure peace than this. You know, world havent been a safe place in history and it is even much more dangeros now, because of aimless, empty anger. Lets hope it become a global village (not "culturally") and wars come to an end.
Turks, as well as Iranians, should ensure a total power in themselves by unifying. This doesnt means Uzbeks and Tajiks be far from each other from now on. They will stay same. But member states become more and more close and be sure then Oghuzs and Uzbeks will be as close as Tajiks ;)
After all, what is wrong with pan-Turkism ? I dont see the point. We just want to unite to be more powerful and developed as to ensure prosperity of our people and peace. We dont say we will unite and kill all others or conquer world.
The thing wrong with pan-Turkism is the same thing that is wrong with pan-Iranism. The only thing that Turkic people have in common is similar languages. Same is with Iranian people. What both refuse to understand is that language does not mean as much as culture and environment. Turkic Uzbeks have more in common with Iranian Tajiks than they do with Anatolian Turks. Iranian Tajiks have more in common with Uzbeks that they do with their Persian cousins.
You are right about examples. Uzbeks may have more thing in common with Tajiks than Oghuzs. But this doesnt make unification ideal false. Look at EU. Do- England, Germany, France have so similar culture or do they love each other too much. They know how to stand in todays world without be hunted by the other.
Racially, Anatolian Turks have little relationship to Central Asian Turks. Anatolians are mostly Indo European people who adopted the Turkic language of the Seljuks. Culturally Tajiks are closer to Uzbeks, that's correct.
Two great cities and have great significance historically. Even today they are so beautiful. Hope that they will develop much more to limits without losing their own culture :)
Btw, Shirio77, mate you are wrong about kurdish population. There are 8-15 million kurds live within borders of Turkey.
in Afghanistan The most power Full man And the King of North Afghnistan General Dostum he fight for Afghanistan And He Shouted out All Pnjabi and paki from our Land Afghanistan
i dont know from where you are but if u want to know more about uzbeks ask ur grandfather about ( amir timur lank ) the wich fucked up all cintral asia :)
By the way, the man who is singing in the background is one of our best singers(at our jewish bukharien society) is the one and the only Avrahom Tolmasov. The name of this song is "maftuni tambur badastam". By the way, have you heard about "Mullo eliyose mallayev" ?
He wrote many good songs for the uzbek people (olso jew).
Are you trying to ignore the identity of Bukhara and Samarqand? They are Tajik/Persian and no one care your personal opinion! Facts are facts. Majority of Uzbekistan have Persian blood in their vein and the volcano finds its way to blow, one way or another. Whether TOKHME RUSS like it or not. believe me, the HISTORY TRASH CAN is full of TRAITOR like you. wake up and smell the coffee!
I am not ignoring the identity of Bukhara and Samarqand. Majority of population of both cities are Tajiks. But majority of people in Samarqand and Bukhara provinces are Uzbeks. So, the two cities are like two Tajik islands in Turkic sea. Turkic inhabitants of surrounding countryside and towns outnumber Samarqandis and Bukharis by far. Therefore both cities will never be a part of Tajikistan. Not because we deny Tajiks their identity, but because it would mean betraying Uzbeks majority of region.
Thanks for your respond. Though, tell me how do you distinguish between culture. What is your criteria? Uzbek and Tajik have been working together in so called "Aughanistan" and yet, they have been respecting each others, building on the very wide common interest and culture rather than falling into trap of "Divide and Destroy" strategy. Why not in other places? What drive you to create haters? Wanna me to tell more than 65% OF THIS SONG IS TAJIK?
The volcano you are talking about is not going to blow. Majority of Uzbekistan has Iranic blood of ancient Sogdians and Khorezmians, not of Persians. And those who indeed were Tajiks but got Turkified later consider themselves Uzbeks. I am not talking about "Uzbeks" of Samarqand and Bukhara who know that they are Tajiks and speak it. I am talking about those who speak Uzbek as their first language and identify themselves as Uzbeks. Chances of them becoming Tajik is like chances of dead raising.
I always respected you but I think you never respected yourself in the way I did. Trust me, we have a lot in common but you cannot see it because of your bias point of view. NO ONE EVER thought Russia will be the first COMMUNIST STATE in the World, even Marx himself, though it happened in just 17 days. Why you say NEVER? Just be honest with yourself, at least!
I do admit that Uzbeks and Tajiks have a lot in common. Nothing wrong with Uzbeks and Tajiks building a better future of Central Asia together. I simply disagree with Pan-Iranian and Pan-Turkic ideas. Pan-Iranists deny the Turkic part of the identity of settled Uzbeks. Pan-Turkists deny Iranian part of our identity. But we, Uzbeks are in fact both, Turkic and Iranian. We can't be separated from either half of our identities.
How many times I have to explain myself and yet you go back to same point. I stand for facts, truth and culture. The truth is not what we have been told. That is the reality. The fact is, this region has no FUTURE if doesn't go beyond tribalism. We have to find the common interest and culture for a united front while world are looking to expand their borders. Otherwise, the same argue can be made between intra-tribal community!
Thank you. Exactly. We need to find common ground. But common ground cannot be found if one group insists on its superiority. Central Asia cannot be united based on Persian culture. Neither can it be united based on Pan-Turkism. Claiming that it all belongs to Tajiks and all Uzbeks who live in cities are just Turkified Tajiks is tribalism. Pan-Iranists are just like Pan-Turkists - live in their fantasy-world hoping the world is different from what it really is.
And that's what's unique about Central Asia, crossroad of the Orient. Tajiks there have as much Turkic blood in them as Uzbeks have Iranian blood. We are not a backyard of Iran or Turkey. If I am a Pan-Turkist denying that Samarqand and Bukhara are inhabited by Tajiks as you claimed earlier, why would I attach a song in Tajik to this video? It is a song in Tajik, the singer is Jewish. I picked that song because it shows how unique our region is. We all live here together in peace.
What makes you think Persian and Tajik are two different groups? Just reading a bit of history and you will know Kharazmian and Soghdis were inseparable part of Aryanovich, Iran or what is mostly referred by European researcher, Persia. To support the fact, I refer you to 1991 Times Magazin report on "Great Persia". Tajik was a word created for Divide and Destroy Strategy as afghan or .. Just read Teymour's book and you will see how he call himself Shah of Iran and respect/Adapt the culture.
His name was Temur (not Teymour). The fact that Temur called himself Shah of Iran does not mean he adapted that culture. Russian Czars among other titles called themselves Czars of Kazan. Kazan was a Muslim Tatar khanate conquered by Russians. Does it mean that Czars became Muslim or adapted to Muslim culture? English queen Victoria called herself Empress of India. Did she adapt to Hindu culture? Idi Amin called himself a king of Scotland)))
Мы таджики мудрый народ, мы уважаем своих соседей, мы любим их и приветствуем как родных братьев. Мы смотрели так, у нас великая ИСТОРИЯ мы перси мы арийцы мы индо европейцы мы же дары из иранских народов так же мы ТАДЖИКИ носители короны, наш символ эта лев и корона. А у наших братьев ну узбаков нет не чего. бедные даже у монголов украли Темирланга *( Так мы своих родных в беду не оставили не когда и мы им дали Самарканд и Бухору ))) что бы их имя светил в ИСТОРИЮ ( продолжение следуе
TheForstj 1 week ago
@TheForstj Т) Что бы о них знал мир, что бы их уважали. Смотрите кроме МОНГОЛСКОГО Темирлана и таджикской архитектуры, поэзии, культуры, и многое другое.. есть у них что не будь ? Нет, я не чего о узбеков больше не знаю ))) Я горжусь что я таджик! и с нетерпением жду своих городов САМАРКАНД И БУХАРА
У вас даже питьевой воды нету! Вы не благодарные не видите доброту таджиков к вам и этим вы доказывайте свою слабость. Ваша история не реальная что бы узнать кто вы. Читайте историю ТАДЖИКОВ ! )
TheForstj 1 week ago
@TheForstj Таджики не давали узбекам Самарканд и Бухару. Тюркские правители правили этими городами много веков, не спрашивая вашего разрешения.
QoziKalon 1 week ago
@QoziKalon Зато города таджикские ! и их строили мы ! )) а не ваши трюки и кстати если бы ТЮРКИ НЕ брали бы эти города то было бы там еще красивее и чудеснее !
TheForstj 6 days ago
Исследование показало, что в человеческой истории до 1929 года, когда Таджикская ССР была выведена из состава Узбекской ССР, где она находилась в качестве автономной республики, в качестве союзной республики СССР, никакого государства ни под названием Таджикистан и ни под названием Тазикистан или Тазикия, не было. И тем более такого таджикского государства, в которое входили бы такие величественные города, как Самарканд и Бухара.
avazhuja 3 months ago
@avazhuja Че за хуйню ты несешь ???
TheForstj 1 week ago
сами тоже начали называть этим термином, не только их, но и тех иранских воинов, которые пришли на их территорию вместе с арабскими завоевателями, помогая им добиться своих целей. Целей завоевания Средней Азии и покорения тюркских народов, обитающих на этой территории.
avazhuja 3 months ago
ТАЗИКАМИ (tazik) на востоке иранского мира называли арабские армии, которые вторглись в VIII веке на их территории под знаменем джихада. Но в арабо-мусульманском завоевании Средней Азии рядом с собственно арабскими войсками в массовом порядке участвовали и персоязычные новообращенные мусульмане из Фарса, Загроса и Хорасана. Поэтому тюркское население Средней Азии, зная от самих иранцев, что они арабов назвали ТАЗИКами,
avazhuja 3 months ago
@avazhuja Умник. изучай историю МЫ БЫЛИ САМАНИДАМЫ а тазики до сих пор живут и они в китае.
TheForstj 1 week ago
ojjj oj oj rodina moja!!! kak zhalko 4to po iste4eniem ob´stojatelstw ja ne tam sei4as!!!! u menja kom w gorle ne powerite!! i eshe pesni AVRAAMA TOLMASOWA rebja kto sdelal etot klip rahmat shimoba salomat boshet usto!!!!
Innusik1283 7 months ago
@Innusik1283 Пожалуйста. Мы все скучаем по родине, она у нас одна.
QoziKalon 7 months ago
sartami kirgizov i kazahov nikogda ne nazyvali - oni ko4evniki, konewno est` ko4evye uzbeki no ya ih za svoih ne s4itayu
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
@FarruxUzAz Я с вами полностью согласен. Казахов и киргизов сартами никто никогда не называл. Я кстати нигде в своих постах не говорил что казахов или киргизов называли сартами. Сарт и кочевник понятия взаимоисключающие.
QoziKalon 10 months ago
@QoziKalon, sorry ne tak ponyal zna4it! Vot vy kto istorik? ko4evye uzbeki i vot sarty my je raznye? po4emu my toje zovemsya uzbekami?
FarruxUzAz 10 months ago
@FarruxUzAz Ну за это отчасти можно сказать "спасибо" Советам. Благодаря им название узбеки до того применяемое только к собственно кочевым и полу-кочевым узбекам говорящим на кипчакских диалектах стало применяться к тюркоязычным сартам - оседлому тюрко-иранскому населению говорящему на карлукских и огузских диалектах. И узбекским языком был обьявлен тюркский язык сартов а не кипчакский говор собственно узбеков.
QoziKalon 10 months ago
@FarruxUzAz Но на сегодняшний день нас правомочно называть узбеками так как слово в общем то поменяло свое значение. Если в начале 20 века термин "узбек" означал кочевого или полукочевого потомка кипчакских племен пришедших в Среднюю Азию с Шейбани ханом, то сегодня под этим названием подразумевают прежде всего тюркоязычных сартов тюрко-иранского происхождения. Так часто бывает, этноним меняет значение. Бывает что на протяжении истории название остается одним, а народы носящие его меняются.
QoziKalon 10 months ago
@QoziKalon, ili Po4emu oni nazyvayutsa uzbekami?
FarruxUzAz 10 months ago
@FarruxUzAz Собственно поэтому узбекам (я имею ввиду сартов) таджики гораздо ближе казахов и киргизов. У нас общая культура, религия, музыка, одежда, обычаи, кухня. Видимая разница только в языке и изредка в некоторых внешних чертах, а в тех регионах где узбеки и таджики живут смешанно разница во внешности тоже стирается. У нас общие предки - древнее иранское население Средней Азии, хотя в узбеках так же большое количество тюркской крови.
QoziKalon 10 months ago
@QoziKalon, ya was jivu v uzbekistane ya i dumat ne dumal wto est i takie uzbeki, i ih mnogo i razgovarivayut budto na kazahskom, i oni mne ne nravyatsa iz za svoey kakoy to beskulturnym povedeniem daje ded moy govoril na nih befarhangi ghert hayvonholar, nu lana rahmat za otvety
FarruxUzAz 10 months ago
@FarruxUzAz , da kstati v gorode Shahristan eto tojikistan toje projivayut uzbeki, napominayut ko4evnikov, zato razgovarivayut po nawemu! A vy v znaete pro nih?
FarruxUzAz 10 months ago
Не совсем понимаю диалект или это всего лишь акцент певца. Но я поняла, что это Шашмаком!
SogdianPrincess 11 months ago
two beautiful city of muslim world great place the land there so many muslims scholars were born specialy bukhara but so sad rassian changed too much
SALEEMCLPK 11 months ago
Would anyone tells me if the Bukharin have any girl-name means river or small stream, please?!?
viola2319 1 year ago
QoziKalon) - Кроме этого среди сартов российские этнографы различали курама — оседлых степняков, проживающих преимущественно в переходящих районах, разделяющих место обитания кочевников и собственно сартов. Слово "сарт" в отношении нынешних узбеков чаще всего используют их соседи туркмены, каракалпаки, киргизы и казахи, исключение таджики
camomilleable11 1 year ago
QoziKalon) - Ввиду вышеизложенного выражению "сарт" придаётся в одних случаях смысловая нагрузка, значимая как "неоднородная, смешанная", в других в более поздних случаях как "безродная", подразумевая отказ сартов об обычая не вступать в родство до седьмого колена, которое строго соблюдается по сей день среди соседних кочевых племен. Из-за исторического отсутствия закона седьмого колена у таджиков по аналогию иногда и таджиков называют сартами, что в корне неправильно.
camomilleable11 1 year ago
QoziKalon - Сартов иногда разделяют на тюркоязычных сартов и персоязычных сартов. При этом не надо ставить знак равенства между персоязычными сартами и таджиками ввиду их разного происхождения. Так иногда персоязычными сартами становились представители малых народностей преимущественно тюркского происхождения длительно проживающих в населенных пунктах где доминирует таджикский этнос и позаимствоваших их язык.
camomilleable11 1 year ago
QoziKalon <<<< Хахаха ты что-то попутала таджики никогда не были Сартами, может ты имела ввиду тех Иранцев проживающие в Узбекистане, вот они точно относятся к сартам так как у них этнос таджикский а своим родным языком считают узбекский. в книге четко и ясно написано что означает слово САРТ - это без роду без племени, то есть те люди у кого не было своего рода, они перемешались и у них образовалась нация. а Таджики испокон веков имели свой род и они не относятся к сартам.
camomilleable11 1 year ago
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QoziKalon <<<< Хахаха ты что-то попутала таджики никогда не были Сартами, может ты имела ввиду тех Иранцев проживающие в Узбекистане, вот они точно относятся к сартам так как у них этнос таджикский а своим родным языком считают узбекский. в книге четко и ясно написано что означает слово САРТ - это без роду без племени, то есть те люди у кого не было своего рода, они перемешались и у них образовалась нация. а Таджики испокон веков имели свой род и они не относятся к сартам.
camomilleable11 1 year ago
QoziKalon <<<< Хахаха ты что-то попутала таджики никогда не были Сартами, может ты имела ввиду тех Иранцев проживающие в Узбекистане, вот они точно относятся к сартам так как у них этнос таджикский а своим родным языком считают узбекский. в книге четко и ясно написано что означает слово САРТ - это без роду без племени, то есть те люди у кого не было своего рода, они перемешались и у них образовалась. а Таджики испокон веков имели свой род и они не относятся к сартам.
camomilleable11 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 Сартами кочевники называли и таджиков и оседлых тюрок. Изначально название это применялось исключительно к иранскому населению средней азии. Еще при Чингисхане таджикских купцов монголы называли сартаульскими купцами. Позднее так стали называть и оседлых тюрок. Сегодня применяется в основном к узбекам казахами и киргизами.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@QoziKalon, TVOI POZNANIYA V ISTORII DELAYUT TEBYA SMEWNYM I NEDALEKIM, SIDI I NE VYAKAY NIKOGDA KIRGIZOV QAZAHOV SARTAMI IMI NAZYVALI OSEDLYH UZBEKOV 4ASTI4NO TAJIKOV RAVNINNYH I UYGUROV TOJE 4ASTI4NO
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
@FarruxUzAz Во первых для того что бы вас заметили вовсе не обязательно печатать все заглавными буквами. Во вторых не надо мне тыкать. В третьих укажите на мои ошибки если таковые имеются. В четвертых, я нигде не говорил что киргизов и казахов называли сартами. В пятых, если говорите что таджик и узбек враги на век то говорите за себя. Я узбек и таджикский народ врагом не считаю, и есть таджики которые не считают узбеков врагами. У нас враг общий, нацики с обеих сторон и те кто нас стравливает.
QoziKalon 11 months ago
@QoziKalon , ya s baranami ne obwayus!
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
@FarruxUzAz Вот видите, сначала оскорбили меня и обвинили в не знании истории. А потом когда я попросил конкретно указать где я ошибаюсь опять слышу от вас оскорбления. Оскорбления и переход на личности показывает человека у которого нет аргументов. Еще раз говорю, если вы не согласны с моей точкой зрения пишите конкретные претензии и обсудим тему. Оскорбления не опровергают мою точку зрения и не подтверждают вашу. Так что жду ответа.
QoziKalon 11 months ago
@FarruxUzAz , mne es 4esno posrat` na tajikov i uzbekov taj-na
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
@QoziKalon, TVOI POZNANIYA V ISTORII DELAYUT TEBYA SMEWNYM I NEDALEKIM, SIDI I NE VYAKAY NIKOGDA KIRGIZOV QAZAHOV SARTAMI NE NAZYVALI IMI NAZYVALI OSEDLYH UZBEKOV 4ASTI4NO TAJIKOV RAVNINNYH I UYGUROV TOJE 4ASTI4NO
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
@camomilleable11 Сарт для кочевников действительно может означать человека без рода и племени. Потому что в отличии от кочевников оседлый человек обычно не помнит всех своих предков ограничиваясь дедами, прадедами, прапрадедами. Потому что для оседлого, городского человека родо-племенные отношения не имеют значения. У урбанизированного, городского населения нет родо-племенных отношений. При оседлом образе жизни в развитом обществе племенные различия стираются.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 Так например еще советские этнографы находили в казахских юртах списки предков вплоть до Адама!! Для кочевых народов это имеет огромное значение. До сих пор многие казахи при встрече друг с другом могут просчитать степень своего родства. У оседлых узбеков и таджиков этого нет. Им это не нужно, у них был другой образ жизни и способ производства. Есть отдельные люди которые знают многие поколения своих предков но основная масса население не может.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 Возьми 10 случайных городских таджиков и узбеков и спроси могут ли они назвать по именам 10 поколений своих предков. Врядли смогут. А очень многие казахи и киргизы могут. Это не значит что одни глупее или хуже других. Все обусловленно способом производства и образом жизни: оседлым земледелием и ремеслом или кочевым скотоводством. То в чем нет нужды отбрасывается.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
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MrMirmaksud 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 Испокон веков свой род имеет каждый народ а не только таджики. Ни один народ не свалился с луны а естественно произошел от кого то. В основной массе узбеки и таджики не знают больше 4-5 поколений предков. Исключения есть но они редки. Если рассматривать исторических предков я могу поименно просчитать всех своих предков до I в н.э. Если рассматривать легендарных то могу просчитать до Адама. Но как я сказал эти случаи исключения. Оседлому населению это бесполезно.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
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@camomilleable11 Chto ty hochesh??
MrMirmaksud 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 ТАДЖИКИ,КОТОРЫЕ ПИШУТСЯ узбеками и говорят на узбекском те же сарты
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
i vawe sarty eto osedlye zemledel`cy
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
@FarruxUzAz est` persoyazy4nye sarty - tajiki i tyurkoyazy4nye sarty - irancy govoryawie na uz yaz
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
This great singer is Abraham Tolmasov ,jewish-bucharian that was born in Samarkand-Uzbekistan.
marinata01 1 year ago
И я не согласна что мы таджики будем братья с узбеками, никогда этого не было и не будет.
camomilleable11 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 А вы за всех таджиков не говорите. У узбеков нет народов ближе чем таджики и уйгуры. Большинство узбеков и таджиков живут бок о бок, мирно, по братски. Так было веками. А националисты с обоих сторон настаивая на собственной исключительности толкают только к крови и разрушениям. Если вы лично не согласны быть братом узбекам то это ваше личное дело. Для меня все люди братья, какой бы нации, расы или веры они не были. Чего и вам желаю.
QoziKalon 1 year ago 2
Avraham tolmasov-the great jewish-bucharian singer, was born in Samarkand, Uzbekistan' singing the song-tambur ba dast:playing on tambur.
marinata01 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 bratan uzbeki oni bratya xotya bi potomu 4to oni musulmani.. plyun ti na segodneshniy politi4eskuyu nestabilnost mejdu Tj i Uz.. v budeshem tak i tak mi budem drujit
PS
I am Tajik))
Olimhon888 1 year ago 2
@Olimhon888 , MY NIKOGDA DRUJIT NE BUDEM VY TEMNAYA NACIYA RAVSHANY I DJAMSHUTY! Vas zakleymili na doooolgie 10-ki let esli ne sotni! tak wto ta4ik i Uzbek - vragi na vek!!!!!!
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
@Olimhon888 To'gri bro, mi bili bratyami i mi budem bratyami vsegda.
aminov82 2 months ago
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MrMirmaksud 1 year ago
Я недавно прочла одну книгу и там четко и ясно сказано кто такие узбеки. Узбеки - сарты, сарты это люди без роду без племени. Ихни братья это казахи, киргизи, каракалпаки, туркмены, уйгуры.
camomilleable11 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 Сарты это не этноним. То есть это не название нации. Это определение образа жизни. В Средней Азии сартами кочевники называли оседлое население (включая таджиков) в независимости от национальности. Сами киргизы говорили что плохой киргиз становится сартом (то есть меняет кочевую жизнь на оседлую в городе). Есть узбеки ведущие полукочевой образ жизни а были и кочевники, и сартами они никак не являлись. А например коренные узбеки Ташкента или Андижана - сарты.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 Изначально термин сарты применялся только к оседлому персоязычному населению, но не к оседлым тюркам. Так в Бабур-наме Бабур описывает область Ферганы и города этой области. Так описывая Андижан он пишет что жители Андижана все тюрки. А описывая Исфару пишет что жители Исфары сарты и говорят по персидски. То есть в то время тюрок живших в городах сартами не называли, а звали так только таджиков. Позже термин стал применяться ко всем оседлым жителям.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
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MrMirmaksud 1 year ago
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Jahon6 8 months ago
QoziKalon <<< Узбеки не относятся к персам, и у них нет ничего общего с персами. Узбеки это кочевники смесь с тюрками и монголами просто очень сильная ассимиляция пошла с таджиками что порой внешний вид придает какую то современность. Узбекский язык составляет 40-45 процентов из таджикских слов, и все что щас имеют узбеки у них все ворованное от таджиков также как развитие ремесло. ткачество, земледелие, строительство, переработка золота, хлебные изделия.
camomilleable11 1 year ago
@camomilleable11 Никто ничего ни у кого не воровал. Просто узбеки потомки ираноязычного местного населения Средней Азии и тюрок. Естественно что народы живущие бок о бок и смешивающиеся почем зря перенимают друг у друга полезные навыки. А то что узбеки не относятся к персам то с этим никто не спорит.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
Samarkand and Bukhara Tajik city of which the Bolsheviks took away and gave the Mongols Uzbeks!
furuzon77 1 year ago
@furuzon77 Samarqand and Bukhara were ruled by the Uzbeks long before the Russians arrived, let alone Bolsheviks. Bolsheviks used an army to remove Uzbek Emir from the throne. The region had Turkic rulers for the past 1000 years. There were no Tajik dynasties ruling the area since Samanids. It is a fact.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@furuzon77 Also your statement that Uzbeks are Mongols is entirely incorrect. Uzbeks are Turkic. Mongols are not. Majority of Uzbeks belong to Iranid race (Памиро-Ферганская раса) despite Turkic language. Same race as Tajiks dare I remind you. Uzbeks of today are primarily a mixture of ancient Iranic population of Central Asia and Turkic tribes that arrived later.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
Which university is the most knowledgeable in these matters (oriental) people/ ethnographica? From where you have your great openess to these matters?
cphmadsen 1 year ago
@cphmadsen It's hard for me to say which university in the West is best when it comes to ethnography. I myself studied at University of Oriental Studies in Tashkent.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@QoziKalon Вообще я заметил, что Узбеки например Ташкента, Самарканда, Хорезма, Бухары сильно различаются от Узбеков Ферганы, Намангана и т.д. Антропологически, Менталитет другой, да и не долюбливаете вы друг-друга. Выходить Узбеки это конгломерат народов??
DilshodTajik 1 year ago
@QoziKalon Вообще я заметил, что Узбеки например Ташкента, Самарканда, Хорезма, Бухары сильно различаются от Узбеков Ферганы, Намангана и т.д. Антропологически, Менталитет другой, да и не долюбливаете вы друг-друга. Выходить Узбеки это конгломерат народов??
DilshodTajik 1 year ago
@DilshodTajik Согласен. Узбеки смесь различных этносов, и отличаются друг от друга в разных регионах. Как и многие другие народы состоят из субэтносов которые могут недолюбливать друг друга но тем не менее осознают свое единство.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@DilshodTajik Французы так же состоят из субэтносов которые к тому же говорят на разных языках. Бретонцы, провансальцы и др. Немцы и итальянцы тоже разделены на недолюбливающие друг друга группы. Бухарские таджики до недавнего времени недолюбливали горных таджиков.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@DilshodTajik В Средней Азии вообще землячество имеет большее значение чем национальность. Люди больше преданы своему городу (региону) чем стране. Как древние греки. Афиняне, спартанцы, коринфяне терпеть не могли друг друга. Но за общегреческое дело воевали сообща.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
Assalomu Aleykum, QoziKalon. I read many comments here and some are good points.
QoziKalon, you stated you are Uzbek. I have a question to you: what city you were born and raised? Sorry if you already mentioned it here - I wasn't able to find it. Hurmat ila, Spitamen.
Spitamen 1 year ago
@Spitamen I was born and raised in Tashkent. But I do have family in Tashkent, Samarqand, Ferghana valley and spent a lot of my time there.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
Hi QoziKalon;
Sorry I have a bunch of questions:
Are you located in the area of S & B?
Which universities to you would be the most knowledgeable in matters of these amazing amouint of different people?
And from you prespective: Linguistic, religious, economical, ethnic, historic, religious differences...do you know how many 'sets' are there?...architecturally, music, clothing, kitchen, massive matrix...Carl
cphmadsen 1 year ago
@cphmadsen I apologize it took me awhile to get back to you. I am currently not in the area of Samarqand and Bukhara, and live in United States. Originally I am from Tashkent, Uzbekistan. But I do have a lot of family in Samarqand region. As far as your second question, I'm afraid I'm not fully understanding it. Would you mind may be rephrasing it. Thank you.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
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cphmadsen 1 year ago
Who is playing?
I love this music; particularily the bas play with this singer...language...persian?
cphmadsen 2 years ago
The singer is Avrom Tolmasov. He is a very famous Bukharian Jewish singer. The song is in a dialect of Persian language. The one spoken by Tajiks and Bukharian Jews. He also has songs in Uzbek.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
@QoziKalon
Thank you very much for this...we are now multiple people in Toronto Canada listening to this...one is persian, one polish...and myself euro/asian.
Please keep on the architectural discussion...Im architect building in London, UK
bless, Carl
cphmadsen 2 years ago
All right, muslim brothers. Tajiks and Uzbeks are brothers. All muslim are one nation. And who put himself above others Allah will make that person worse than a worm. And nationalism is haram. When one sahaba came to jamaat where rasulullah SAV existed and said his nationality, Rasulullah SAV said that "Leave it, it stinks". So all talk about nations stink. What happened Sam. & Bukh. was by wish of Allah. And Allah is the Hakeem.
TojikiSamarqand 2 years ago 2
agree with u brother
RISINGPAKISTAN1 2 years ago
@TojikiSamarqand Mashallah brother well said. Tajiki ppl of Tashkent live in peace with Uzbek ppl of Tashkent.
TigerofTuran 1 year ago
Hypocrite-nationalists!Do You consider yourselves as muslims?
IsMujUz 2 years ago
Im Tajik from Samarkand. And Isay friends, lets not to be stupid and hate each other, we shall all die but land will stay. Land is not ours, we blong to land. Such as Samarkand and Bukhoro was there for ever and ppl from all over the plase have past there.Just think majority ppl r muslims, means Arabs were there too
MrZafarjon 2 years ago 6
@MrZafarjon , U R THE SMARTEST TOJIK I EVER HEARD! OFARIN!
FarruxUzAz 11 months ago
images magnifiques!... et très belle musique aussi!
magnificient images!... and also beautiful music!
8Claudie 2 years ago
I never say wow! But.. WOW. absolutely heavenly
mjmbrumi 2 years ago 3
That was for Parandehdarya
kazakhseven 2 years ago
Wonderful Town pearl of the Orient !!! thanks for posting....
piergiorgiovico 2 years ago
ive read that the gardens of bokhara in the abbasi khilafa time were like heaven on earth.
jdabab 2 years ago
Tajik speaking and uzbek speaking families live side by side in villages, towns, and cities in Bukhara province. There is no defining line, who is uzbek or who is tajik. They have been marrying each other for hundreds of years, so everyone is mixed. This is also not true, that city population is tajik and suburbs are populated by uzbeks. Almost every part of Bukhar region, like Shafirkon, Gijduvon, Romitan, Vobkent etc, are ancient places, where people speak both tajik and uzbek.
dardisar 2 years ago
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TojikiSamarqand 2 years ago
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TojikiSamarqand 2 years ago
Don't confuse nomadic Uzbeks of Shaybani with Uzbeks of today. Today Uzbek is a common name for all settled Turks of Central Asia. In 16th century Uzbek meant a Qipchaq speaking nomad from the Golden Horde. When they came to Central Asia they were like a drop in the sea of local Turkic population. They gave their name to local Turks, who spoke a Qarluq Turkic, just like Uighurs. Qarluq dialect is a basis of modern literary Uzbek language.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
It is very similar to what happened to the French. Their name derives from Franks, a Germanic tribe who conquered Roman Gaul. Locals spoke a dialect of Latin, and where not Germanic. However, they adopted the name of the Germanic tribe that took over their land. Franks completely dissolved among the locals. Same thing happened to Qipchaq speaking Uzbeks, who almost entirely dissappeared among Qarluq speaking local Turks. I am Uzbek, but I know for fact that my ancestor lived here before 16th cen
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Comment removed
TojikiSamarqand 2 years ago
Actually, that is not correct. They had been living in Bukhara. There were Ashina Turks who came there in 5th cent. In the 6th cent. a rebel Turkic prince Toremen made Bukhara his capital. In Iranian sources he is known as Abruy. He was a cruel ruler therefore the people of Bukhara sent a message to Qara Churin, the ruler of Turks asking to defend them. Read "History of Bukhara" by Narshahi, who by the way was a Tajik. It describes the whole story.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Qara Churin came to Bukhara, defeated and executed Abruy. After that Bukhara was a part of the empire of Ashina Turks until their downfall. You have to remember the Samanids who bought Turkic slaves for their army, and had Turkic generals. Obviously those Turkic soldiers lived in Bukhara. Then there were Karakhanid Turkic dynasty, then Turkic Khwarazmshahs, then after the Mongol rule there were Turkic Timurids, and then Turkic Shaybanids. So, Turkic presence in Bukhara lasted since 5th cent.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
pearls of the Orient
hurahman 2 years ago
what does it mean by
"pearls of the Orient"??
hurahman 2 years ago
Thanks for the wonderful pictures of these wonderful ancient cities. I will visit you soon. Love from Iran
iraninfo 2 years ago 2
these cities all are tajik not uzbek..i hope to see greater tajikistan again
parandehdarya 2 years ago
Are you some racist redneck from US? Your site is very anti islamic. 99% of Iran is muslim and over 93% of Uzbekistan is Muslim. so who are you representing?
kazakhseven 2 years ago
no, they're uzbek cities because they are in UZBEKISTAN. and if anything, most of their art and architecture is Persian.
mambosdapenguin 2 years ago
I would not claim all of that architecture to be Persian. Central Asian and Iranian art is a product of collective effort of numerous Persian, Tajik, and Turkic artists. So, your claims that it is all Persian are racist. Just because Central Asia and Iran have similar culture and art does not mean that it is all Persian or all Tajik or all Turkic. Ancestors of all three people created all that.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
k first of all, do you even know what racism means? it means discriminating against a group of peoples because of their skin color. so please tell me how what i said was racist in ANY way.
SECOND of all, yea they are Persian because these cities were built BY persians when all those areas were ruled by iran a long time ago, thats what makes them persian architecture. AND i didn't claim all, as you can see i said most.
mambosdapenguin 2 years ago
Lol. Now we are getting to the point when I'm going to prove you wrong and prove that you don't know history. Most of the buildings we see here were build under Timurid rule and after. Timurids were Turkic and ruled conquered Iran as well. Moreover, all of these buildings were build during Islamic period of Central Asian history. And Iran never ruled this area during Islamic period. The last time Iran ruled the area was before Alexander arrived. So go back to school buddy))
QoziKalon 2 years ago
the cities itself where built long before that and persians did build the city. as for the structures there, you might be right, but khwarezmian and even timurid empires they were turkic/persian so yea again you're probably right about the building. i know for fact they're persian architecture tho. and dont be stupid cuz like i said before, khwarezmian, seljuk, ruled those areas at the time.
mambosdapenguin 2 years ago
Persians did not build these cities. Soghdians did. Soghdians were Iranic, but Iranic and Persian is not the same thing. Pashtuns are Iranic, Tajiks are Iranic. But are Pashtuns and Tajiks the same thing? No. Russians and Polish are Slavic. But are their the same nationality? No. Turks and Kazakhs are both Turkic. But are they the same thing? No.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Hmm.. I do believe Persians had a role on these cities. Btw, Persian doesnot mean Iranian. Persian simply means someone speaking Persian (Farsi/Dari) as their mother tongue. True, these architecture has little to do with Archemnian era, but, it has to do with Samanids.
The Samanids made Bukhara and Samarqand as Grand cities. Bukhara and Samarqand were considered the two most grand cities under Ismoil Somoni, who himself was a Tajik or Persian. One of your picture is also masoleum of him.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
I'll have to disagree with that. Just because someone speaks Persian as a mother tongue does not make the person Persian. Hazaras in Afghanistan speak Persian as a mother tongue. Yet they are Mongols. Bukharan Jews speak it, yet they are Jews. Blacks in Jamaica speak English as a mother tongue. Yet they are not English. Blacks in Tahiti speak French. Many European Jews speak Yiddish, a Geman dialect. Language is a product of culture and can be transferred and adapted by different ethnic groups.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Samanids did have a great impact on Bukhara. Not as much on Samarqand. But what we see here now was mainly build by Timurids and after them. With the exception of some buildings. Tajik role in the history of both cities is huge. It would be a lie to deny it. But so was the Turkic role. Persian role was next to none though. Influence? Sure. But stating that Persians made these cities what they are is not correct for Persians have not ruled the area for over 2400 years.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Tajiks are Persians. Tajik=Persian. As I have said before, locally people referred to themselves by their tribe/birth place name, but foreigners used different word. "Persian" is a European word, "Tajik" I believe is a Turkic word, used by Turk-Mongols to refer to Persians.
Yes, I am not denying Turkic role, definitely Timurids played a big role on it, but Tajik/Persian also left an impact on these cities.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
I am Persian! and tajik in Persian means "crown", so it means people of crown!!
Long Live Persia!!!
ozunkomeyol 2 years ago
You have a fair point. Although, Hazaras I will say are an exception. I meant to say people who spoke "Persian" as mother tongue were 'recorded' in history as Persian. Many of great minds of historical Khurasan region were considered Persian becos of mother tongue, there were non-Persians too like Ulugh Beg.
Example: Imam Bukhari, among many others are recorded in history as Persian because of their mother tongue, though they have no ancestry tracing to modern-day Iran as per my knowledge.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
Similar can be said about Mawlana (Rumi), Rudaki and numerous others. None of these people have ancestry tracing to modern-day Iran region, however, they are recorded as Persian, because they spoke Persian, all their works were in Persian.
Don't forget "Persian" is a foreign/European word. Locally people used to refer to them by their Tribe or birth place name.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
are u out of your mind?
Persia is greek word for Iran. And Iran is an old form of Arian or Aryan. Modern Day Iran is that used to be Persia. Also Irans name used to be Persian untill Reza Shah Pahlavi changed it. Please dont write comments without true facts.
ozunkomeyol 2 years ago
I am not out of my mind.. I know that fact, please learn your own history before accusing me of ignorance. Persian and Tajik are both foreign word used to refer to Farsi/Dari speakers.
Locally people historically referred to themselves by their tribe or birth place. Someone from Shiraz would say he is "Shirazi", from Bukhara would be "Bukhari" etc. and so on.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
In recent years (100 yrs or more), however things have changed. Now, mostly because of foreign influence, people do refer to themselves as "Persian" or "Tajik", but this wasn't always the case historically.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
and p.s if you go out of your country to somewhere you dont say i am from this city, you say i am from this country.
So Persia was a big country with boundries included Iran, Azerbaijan, Iraq, Turkey, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, some parts of Uzbekistan and Pakistan.
Long Live Persia!!!
ozunkomeyol 2 years ago
Hate to rain on your parade, but if you are Tajik you are not Persian. You are a Tajik. Just because your ancestors adapted Persian language which belongs to the Western group of Iranian languages as opposed to Sogdian (Northeastern group of Iranian languages) which they used to speak does not make you Persian. Sure, you can keep chanting about Aryans, Iran etc. I'm Uzbek, and thus Turkic. But I can't declare myself Ottoman Turk even if I wanted to.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Various ethnic groups adapt languages of their neighbors all the time. There are Turkified Iraninans and Persianised Turks in Central Asia. Bukharan Jews speak a dialect of Persian as a mother tongue, but it does not change the fact that they are Semites. Majority of population of Ireland speaks English as a mother tongue, and original Irish language is only spoken by a tiny minority. Language change is a common case. But changing your tongue does not change you.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
So, you are saying Tajiks are not Persian..lol. ok. Unless you can rewrite history, that's not going to work.
Also, according to you Azeris, Anatolian, and countless other Turks shouldn't be considered Turks as well, because vast majority of them adopted Turkic culture, language. Even DNA Testing has shown that Turks of Turkey are closer to Europeans than to Central Asian Turks. Ethnicity cannot always be used to define someones identity.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
Actually, to the contrary. Azeris, Anatolians and many others should be considered Turkic for "Turkic" is a linguistic term. Just like Tajiks and Persians should be considered Iranic for it is also a linguistic term. But Tajiks and Persians cannot be considered to be the same just like Uzbeks and Anatolians Turks are not the same, just like Polish and Russian are not the same, just like Spaniards and French are not the same. And ethnicity can always be used to define a group. Everyone has it.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
I have repeated this so many times. Please read my comments again. Tajik and Persian are both foreign words used to refer to Farsi/Dari speakers.
On many occasions, you will find, Mawlana, Saadi etc. used "Tajik" and "Persian" synonymously in the poetry.
Regarding "Iranic", I would agree if you said Pashtuns, Kurds, Tajiks etc., yes they are all Iranic. However, this doesnot apply to Tajik. Just read any book about Tajik and Persian history, you will know what I mean.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
Regarding "ethnicity", it depends upon how one defines it.
I disagree it cannot be used exclusively to define a group, if you want to be consistent with history. Throughout history, many people have been Arabized, Turkified, Persianized etc. and so on. They would be considered Arab, Turk or Persian etc. even though they would have absolutely no relation with say the Arabs of Saudi, or Turks of Altaic mountains, or Persians of Pars province (origin of Persian people) in Iran.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
Oh, I absolutely agree with the fact that many groups in the past have been absorbed by other ethnic groups. Turkified, Arabized, etc. But stating that Tajiks are Persian means to reject them their own identity. Just like stating the Uzbeks are Turks is rejecting their identity. That is where all Pan(Turkist, Iranist, Slavist, etc) ideas are ultimately flawed. We are not Turks, we are Uzbeks. Tajiks are not Persians, they are proud descendants of Sogdians, and not of Persians they once fought.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
@QoziKalon and you know that the Tajiks Iranians communicate without interpreters and our languages the same at 99 percent, but you have the Turks can not live without an interpreter? because in your language more than words Tajik Turk! therefore incorrect to compare this with the Russian-Polish and Uzbeks, Turk! is quite another!
furuzon77 1 year ago
@furuzon77 Comparison to Russian and Polish is correct. Uzbeks cannot communicate with Anatolian Turks without an interpreter because it is a different group of Turkic languages. Just like Pashto is a different group of Iranian languages as opposed to Farsi. Uzbeks and Uighurs can communicate without an interpreter, because they belong to the same group. Tajiks cannot speak Pashto, yet both languages are Iranian.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
Long Live Persia is not going to work. First of all, Persia you are talking about (the one that includes Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Uzbekistan, Pakistan etc) cannot live long. It's already dead. Killed by Alexander over 2000 years ago. What you have today is a country of Iran. You can look at the map and see the borders of Iran. It ain't growing. And if you see it growing you should seek professional help. Drugs are bad, mkay.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
Ulugek was not a Persian and cannot be considered one. Besides, he was not a great mind of historical Khurasan. He ruled from Samarqand, which has never been a part of Khurasan. His father was Turkic and his mother came from an old Chagatay Turco/Mongol family. There are no historical records showing that he spoke Persian as his mother tongue. He wrote some books in Persian. But that's because Persian was a lingua franca of many countries of that time, not because it was his mother tongue.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
I even heard once from a Persian that Ulugbek was Persian because he was born in Iran. Insane. He was born in Iran when his grandfathers army was on the march across that conquered foreign land. It does not make him Persian. If a dog gives birth in stables you can't say that her puppies are little horses, can you? Well, you get the point)
QoziKalon 2 years ago
I have not said Ulugh Beg was Persian, I said he was NOT Persian. Read my comments again.
seekknowledge9 2 years ago
My apologies)
QoziKalon 2 years ago
@seekknowledge9 yes these cities once 2000 years ago belonged to persian empire, and that explains why there are some persian looking people there, but the architecture in these wonderful citites are built by asian kings.
Uzbekia777 2 years ago
Just because you have the same type of buildings in Iran does not make this architecture Persian. It is a collective heritage of all peoples of this part of the Muslim world. Persians, Turks, Indians all had an influence on this type of architecture. Claiming that this style belongs to one ethnic group only is extreme nationalism. You are denying that non-Persian inhabitants are capable of creating anything this beautiful. That is exactly what we all hear from Persian nationalists on all videos.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
1. persians did build the cities at the time of the achemenian era.
2. you're making such a big deal out of this and i REALLY just dont give a shit
i know what i now is right, u can beleive WHATEVER u want
and if loving iran makes me a nationalist then fuck u im a nationalist. long live iran
mambosdapenguin 2 years ago
Soghdians build the cities, not Persians. Iran is to the south of Amu Darya, never to the north of it. Soghdians were an Iranic people but they were not Persians. Just like Pashtuns are Iranic but they are not Tajiks who are also Iranic. And just like Persians and Kurds are not the same thing. The buildings you see here were build after the Mongols who destroyed the cities. So, they are not related to Achaemenid Iran in any way.
QoziKalon 2 years ago
@QoziKalon мля узбаккк хоть в одном историческом памятнике есть узбакское название?нет и не было!ты здесь хуйню носишь!Самарканд и Бухара всегда были таджикскими а узбаки повились всего 500лет назад
furuzon77 1 year ago
@furuzon77 Не знаю как у вас гордых ариев, но у узбЕков не принято тыкать собеседнику, а тем более материться. Я еще ни разу не позволил себе здесь оскорблять таджиков, тыкать оппонетнам, или ругаться матом. Если вы считаете себя лучше узбеков то хоть ведите себя прилично.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@furuzon77 Кочевые узбеки 15 века говорили на кипчакском. Современные узбеки говорят на карлукском. Узбеки Шейбани хана и современные узбеки это два разных народа. Первый растворился в местном тюркоязычном населении не оставив даже языка.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@furuzon77 Современные узбеки в большинстве своем потомки древнего ираноязычного населения и тюрок большинство которых пришло в Среднюю Азию с Караханидами в 10 веке. Говорили они на карлукском диалекте, так же как узбеки сегодня.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
@QoziKalon Prostite Pojalusta No Ne Tak. Ya Sam Tadjik Iz Samarkanda, Mojet Vi Podumayte Chto Ya Natsist Nedalublvuyu Uzbekov, Net U Menya Mnoga Druzey Uzbekov. Nashshot Uzbekov Yazik Uzbekskiy Poyavilsa V 14-15 Veke Nashiy Eri. Asnavatil Uzbekskova Yazika Alisher Navoiy. Vi Diljni Xorosho Znat Eto. I Odin Iz Predkov Uzbekov Sagdiytsi, Poetomu U Uzbekov I U Tadjikov Ochen Poxojaya Kultura I Obichiya. Na Samam Dele Uzbeki I Tadjiki Doljni Bili Bit Ochen Drujnimi No Iz Za Politiki Stradayut Narod.
SamarkanD0011 1 year ago
@SamarkanD0011 Я вас простите не в полне понял. Что не так? Что конкретно из того что я говорил вы считаете неверным? Заранее спасибо.
QoziKalon 1 year ago
We were same, which means, we can be brothers again now. Still Pan-Turkism is a futher part. Local alliences are still more important to ensure peace than this. You know, world havent been a safe place in history and it is even much more dangeros now, because of aimless, empty anger. Lets hope it become a global village (not "culturally") and wars come to an end.
Skywatcher91 3 years ago
Turks, as well as Iranians, should ensure a total power in themselves by unifying. This doesnt means Uzbeks and Tajiks be far from each other from now on. They will stay same. But member states become more and more close and be sure then Oghuzs and Uzbeks will be as close as Tajiks ;)
Skywatcher91 3 years ago
After all, what is wrong with pan-Turkism ? I dont see the point. We just want to unite to be more powerful and developed as to ensure prosperity of our people and peace. We dont say we will unite and kill all others or conquer world.
Skywatcher91 3 years ago
The thing wrong with pan-Turkism is the same thing that is wrong with pan-Iranism. The only thing that Turkic people have in common is similar languages. Same is with Iranian people. What both refuse to understand is that language does not mean as much as culture and environment. Turkic Uzbeks have more in common with Iranian Tajiks than they do with Anatolian Turks. Iranian Tajiks have more in common with Uzbeks that they do with their Persian cousins.
QoziKalon 3 years ago
You are right about examples. Uzbeks may have more thing in common with Tajiks than Oghuzs. But this doesnt make unification ideal false. Look at EU. Do- England, Germany, France have so similar culture or do they love each other too much. They know how to stand in todays world without be hunted by the other.
Skywatcher91 3 years ago 2
Racially, Anatolian Turks have little relationship to Central Asian Turks. Anatolians are mostly Indo European people who adopted the Turkic language of the Seljuks. Culturally Tajiks are closer to Uzbeks, that's correct.
Maohammet 2 years ago
Two great cities and have great significance historically. Even today they are so beautiful. Hope that they will develop much more to limits without losing their own culture :)
Btw, Shirio77, mate you are wrong about kurdish population. There are 8-15 million kurds live within borders of Turkey.
Skywatcher91 3 years ago
Zamone meshad ,ki zamini azhdodoni mo boz ba Tojikon barmegardad misli Bukhara & Samarkand!!!
SARAZAMIN 3 years ago
in Afghanistan The most power Full man And the King of North Afghnistan General Dostum he fight for Afghanistan And He Shouted out All Pnjabi and paki from our Land Afghanistan
Big Thanks for Dustom Uzbek
afghorse 3 years ago
Mr Bukhoro
i dont know from where you are but if u want to know more about uzbeks ask ur grandfather about ( amir timur lank ) the wich fucked up all cintral asia :)
bye
afghorse 3 years ago
By the way, the man who is singing in the background is one of our best singers(at our jewish bukharien society) is the one and the only Avrahom Tolmasov. The name of this song is "maftuni tambur badastam". By the way, have you heard about "Mullo eliyose mallayev" ?
He wrote many good songs for the uzbek people (olso jew).
bfsmsfwh1a 3 years ago
Qozi,
Are you trying to ignore the identity of Bukhara and Samarqand? They are Tajik/Persian and no one care your personal opinion! Facts are facts. Majority of Uzbekistan have Persian blood in their vein and the volcano finds its way to blow, one way or another. Whether TOKHME RUSS like it or not. believe me, the HISTORY TRASH CAN is full of TRAITOR like you. wake up and smell the coffee!
Shirio77 3 years ago
I am not ignoring the identity of Bukhara and Samarqand. Majority of population of both cities are Tajiks. But majority of people in Samarqand and Bukhara provinces are Uzbeks. So, the two cities are like two Tajik islands in Turkic sea. Turkic inhabitants of surrounding countryside and towns outnumber Samarqandis and Bukharis by far. Therefore both cities will never be a part of Tajikistan. Not because we deny Tajiks their identity, but because it would mean betraying Uzbeks majority of region.
QoziKalon 3 years ago
QoziKalon,
Thanks for your respond. Though, tell me how do you distinguish between culture. What is your criteria? Uzbek and Tajik have been working together in so called "Aughanistan" and yet, they have been respecting each others, building on the very wide common interest and culture rather than falling into trap of "Divide and Destroy" strategy. Why not in other places? What drive you to create haters? Wanna me to tell more than 65% OF THIS SONG IS TAJIK?
Shirio77 3 years ago
The volcano you are talking about is not going to blow. Majority of Uzbekistan has Iranic blood of ancient Sogdians and Khorezmians, not of Persians. And those who indeed were Tajiks but got Turkified later consider themselves Uzbeks. I am not talking about "Uzbeks" of Samarqand and Bukhara who know that they are Tajiks and speak it. I am talking about those who speak Uzbek as their first language and identify themselves as Uzbeks. Chances of them becoming Tajik is like chances of dead raising.
QoziKalon 3 years ago
QoziKalon,
I always respected you but I think you never respected yourself in the way I did. Trust me, we have a lot in common but you cannot see it because of your bias point of view. NO ONE EVER thought Russia will be the first COMMUNIST STATE in the World, even Marx himself, though it happened in just 17 days. Why you say NEVER? Just be honest with yourself, at least!
Shirio77 3 years ago
I do admit that Uzbeks and Tajiks have a lot in common. Nothing wrong with Uzbeks and Tajiks building a better future of Central Asia together. I simply disagree with Pan-Iranian and Pan-Turkic ideas. Pan-Iranists deny the Turkic part of the identity of settled Uzbeks. Pan-Turkists deny Iranian part of our identity. But we, Uzbeks are in fact both, Turkic and Iranian. We can't be separated from either half of our identities.
QoziKalon 3 years ago
QoziKalon,
How many times I have to explain myself and yet you go back to same point. I stand for facts, truth and culture. The truth is not what we have been told. That is the reality. The fact is, this region has no FUTURE if doesn't go beyond tribalism. We have to find the common interest and culture for a united front while world are looking to expand their borders. Otherwise, the same argue can be made between intra-tribal community!
Shirio77 3 years ago
Thank you. Exactly. We need to find common ground. But common ground cannot be found if one group insists on its superiority. Central Asia cannot be united based on Persian culture. Neither can it be united based on Pan-Turkism. Claiming that it all belongs to Tajiks and all Uzbeks who live in cities are just Turkified Tajiks is tribalism. Pan-Iranists are just like Pan-Turkists - live in their fantasy-world hoping the world is different from what it really is.
QoziKalon 3 years ago
And that's what's unique about Central Asia, crossroad of the Orient. Tajiks there have as much Turkic blood in them as Uzbeks have Iranian blood. We are not a backyard of Iran or Turkey. If I am a Pan-Turkist denying that Samarqand and Bukhara are inhabited by Tajiks as you claimed earlier, why would I attach a song in Tajik to this video? It is a song in Tajik, the singer is Jewish. I picked that song because it shows how unique our region is. We all live here together in peace.
QoziKalon 3 years ago
What makes you think Persian and Tajik are two different groups? Just reading a bit of history and you will know Kharazmian and Soghdis were inseparable part of Aryanovich, Iran or what is mostly referred by European researcher, Persia. To support the fact, I refer you to 1991 Times Magazin report on "Great Persia". Tajik was a word created for Divide and Destroy Strategy as afghan or .. Just read Teymour's book and you will see how he call himself Shah of Iran and respect/Adapt the culture.
Shirio77 3 years ago
His name was Temur (not Teymour). The fact that Temur called himself Shah of Iran does not mean he adapted that culture. Russian Czars among other titles called themselves Czars of Kazan. Kazan was a Muslim Tatar khanate conquered by Russians. Does it mean that Czars became Muslim or adapted to Muslim culture? English queen Victoria called herself Empress of India. Did she adapt to Hindu culture? Idi Amin called himself a king of Scotland)))
QoziKalon 3 years ago
mirza90tr, are you kidding KID! how many history book you ever read? Come on! Tell us what Turk means? Get some class in basics!
Shirio77 3 years ago
my land my mother my blood, my pride, my grave my, I will take you back even if i die, w w w . tajikam . c o m
TajikPadasha 3 years ago