The world is so focused on Israel because of the following: Israel is the birth of the first religion that belivees in one god. Israel is the only country in the world that is surrounded by enemy fascist countries that seek to destroy it, Israel is the only country in th world that rised and founded after 2000 years of living i exile, and Israel is the only country that its people have gone through holocaust.
This is the biggist American military base in the heart of the middle east .. and the arab world!! (take a look at a map!)
have u ever heard of OIL?
JORDAN (the biggist boarder with Israel) is artificially made just to protect Israel and separate between the conflict and the oil.
heared of radical muslims?
What about radical fanatic jews zaionists gathered in Palestine (OCCUPIED PALESTINE)..that u call Israel!... the front line in the fight victims...if they new...
@InScienceITrust How can you trust in science? Science is always uncertain and beyond that is uniquely based on judeo-christian philosophy that is unique in the world. How can you make a statement in your name that in science you trust and then go on to discredit the ironage beliefs that it is based on.
This is the sort of irrational thinking that I cant fathom from atheists.
@havock89 We obviously come at this from 2 very different points of view. The great thing about science is it admits uncertainty on unknown issues. But once an issue has been rigorously tested it becomes a fact. Science IS NOT based on judeo-christian philosophy. Uniquely based, unique in the world? What does that imply? Science is not a philosophy. You use a computer, deeply owed to scientific discovery to communicate like this and ask how can I trust in science?
@InScienceITrust Oh contrare. Science is based on a rational universe imbued with rational laws. The laws of nature was originally a term that was based on animism - that all substances and elements in the universe had a spiritual nature that determined its form and its behaviour. Fire loved the sky, hence it would always try to fly to its beloved. All cultures had a varience of this natural philosophy, even islam which "claims" to come from judeo-roots.
@havock89 You are speaking pseudo science not modern science governed by systematic observable methods, like math, chemistry, experimentation, and empirical evidence. Rational is a subjective term. You can't seem to separate science from spiritualism and philosophy which has no place in todays scinece, maybe it did back in the middle ages, but not now. If we were discussing Universal Law, philosophy would be involved, we are discussing science.
@InScienceITrust As I have said, all other cultures never had rational intelligable laws from a rational ordered universe. Only judeo-christianity led to this, propogated this and created science. None other had this cosmological view.
@havock89 When the phrase "iron age beliefs" is used, it does not refer to the science or process involved in the forging of iron. It refers to an era in time when the judeo-christian and other belief systems where formed. Science is not based on these beliefs, on the contrary science challenges and ultimately corrects faulty information. Irrational thinking all depends upon ones point of view. I could say the same thing about you. You don't trust science? That is stunning!
@InScienceITrust and christianity does the same thing with heresy. I trust science as far as it proves to be true and correct. However i do not place my trust IN science. It is a tool and only can be applied to proximal causation. The real important (teleological) things of life it is utterly silent on, and so it should be. Orthodox Catholic christianity does not confuse categories of science and religion.
@havock89 Only proximate causation? It goes much further than only that. No need to argue that. I agree science is and should be silent on issues of teology which belong to the metaphysical philosophies What is at issue here is when science begins to challenge and prove or disprove these concepts. I trust in reality, not in my or your imagination. Great talking to ya, Thanks for the debate.
@InScienceITrust I disagree completely. Where does anywhere in science point to ultimate why something is so? Science has a scope, you go beyond that scope and you are using science as an ersatz. The scope of science is the identify the behaviour patterns of natural phenomenon. That proximal causation does equal reality.
@havock89 And with that statement I can only reply with an incredualous WOW? Seems to me you are saying science can prove nothing for certain. I agree science is a scope and the great thing is it is always looking to show how it is wrong, but there are certain laws and constants which are proven to an ultimate understanding and certainty. It sounds like you cannot accept this given. I agree with your tea analogy, not sure of the intent of it though.
@InScienceITrust Science explains adequately the "how" (proximal causation) not the "why". In the mordern world this is often confused. Before science existed (mid 9th century) the pre-science ancient world would replace the "how" with the "why" assuming there was nothing else to know. Science never explains the "why" that does not mean it cannot illuminate or show reality, only that it cannot show or illuminate all of reality.
A good example is how a kettle boils water. Radiation excites the water molecules to the point where there is a phase trasition between liquid to steam. That is science. The ultimate causation is that someone wants to make a cup of tea because they thirst.
@havock89 although the ultimate causation in this example is what made the water turn to steam? The true and ultimate causation factor is the radiation, or heat! The resulting product by adding organic matter is not the ultimate cause of the scientific reaction of heat to water. Answer if you like but I see this as a dead end.
@InScienceITrust Wrong. This is not what ultimate (teleological) causation is. It is the end of proximal causation.
Science can and never will be an adequate foundation for that which is most important in life: how we relate with each other. Prudence, Justice, Temperence, Courage, Love, Hope, Trust.
@havock89 Those are all philosophical issues, and i agree with you that science will do little to support those concepts as they are only found within the mind of a sentient being. Ya see you are coming at this from a completely different perspective, as a theist, I am looking at it from the science side.
@havock89 I accept the importance of all those life issues as well. This discussion started with, How can I trust in science though, just because I have that username does not mean I do not accept these aspects you mention, they just are not science. They are philosophies, and they cannot be accounted for by science. I think we can agree on that.
@InScienceITrust I can agree with the majority of what you say here. Simply the word "trust" is not appropriate for science. We work actively to disprove theories in an effort to find the reality. So for me, you never trust in science, you use it and develop it. Not trust. Scientists make too many mistakes.
@havock89 We have come full circle, and I get what you mean. My intention with the name was a show of my contention with the use of In God we trust, I'm sure you realized that. I will stay with having more trust in science than with an imaginary deity which shows no evidence at all. I can experience and reason with science. There are many parts of science I trust, science created dynamite, it will explode I can trust in that. Check this link out if u have not already seen it.
@InScienceITrust I dont "trust" dynamite. I know dynamite. Trust is required for faith, not for knowledge. I have to "trust" my brother because I cannot "know" what he is thinking from time to time, but I have sufficient interaction with him to form "trust". There is no basis for you to "trust" dynamite - or science for that matter. Science does not care a whit for you, and is only a mindless tool.
God is a first principle, and as such is either a self-evident truth or not.
@havock89 BTW on this point you always manage to twist my meanings, I do not suggest you trust dynamite, I suggest you can trust the fact that dynamite works, it does explode, believe it trust in it.
@InScienceITrust Read my comments again. Trust is not appropriate for that which is not a living entity. You "know" how dynamite works, you dont trust in it. Poor use of the word trust, and poor application with regards to science too.
But hey... dont want to labour the point too much. Chiao.
With all that science has given mankind, in industry and medicine, and easing our way of life, I find it disconcerting that anyone would not give credit or trust, or confidence where it is due. If scientist took your view we would still be in the stone age. We learn by our mistakes, you can trust in that too.
@InScienceITrust As I said earlier. Science could only have been born from christian theology. Seeing as christianity invented science and it brought us inexorably through the stone age and through the renneissance to today your statement is demonstrably fallacious.
Mankind equally does not learn by their mistakes. We take two steps forward and two steps back often. thats why empires rise and empires fall.
@havock89 "Science could only have been born from christian theology" I am stunned at your perception of what science is. Science has nothing at all to do with Christian theology and through this statement by you I can see this can go nowhere.
You have such a dim view of humankind, but that is what Christianity teaches you, is you are a sinner and not worthy.
I have sinned. I do sin on occasion, but to correctly use the term sinner you must understand that a sinner is someone who loves that which is evil and wicked.
I have an accurate view of humankind, and so does christianity. But what you think christianity teaches about humanity herein is what is wrong.
@havock89 "Christianity invented Science"...What a laugh! You must be a died in the wool Christian fundamentalist to make such an outrageous claim. Just like I don't understand it so God did it reasoning. Christian insanity must end! We are done!
How are you going to end christian insanity? By killing christians? that has been tried before ... By demeaning and ridiculing christianity? That has been done before too ... Seeing as you have said "we are done" I must also conclude that conversation and debate is not on the agenda as a means of making the "Christian insanity must end!" come to pass. Personally you are coming across as a somewhat bigoted individual at this point.
@havock89 By discussions like this, by not indoctrinating children, by humankind maturing and leaving it's childhood beliefs in the past. It won't happen in my life but in a few more generations, it may begin the end. I have no doubt it may not go away completely for a millenia. As far a demeaning and riduculing, yes absolutely, when you hear or see a ridiculous concept it deserves ridicule. This is not bigotry, I couyld say the same thing about you.
@InScienceITrust Actually people like myself have used conversations like this to galvanise themselves and realise the truth that exists within orthodox christianity. Millions upon millions each year are converting to christianity - so it seems it will not happen the way you hope.
I have not made the statements you have made, and you exclaimed "Christian insanity must end!" Demeaning and ridiculing something you dont understand is not an admirable trait.
@havock89 Oh, I do thank you for the civil discussion though. We are not different where it really matters in living let's keep that in mind! We can be friends and disagree on these topics.
@InScienceITrust Of course I would like to be friends. But your last tirade seems to indicate the complete opposite.
I am christian, it is the very core of me being and my life. It is complete and flawless (unlike science) and delivers what it promises. The utility of christianity goes far beyond any other ideology or religion in existence and I love God with all my being.
When you threaten to end christianity you are attacking my family and the source of my life.
@havock89 I am not above apologizing to you if you feel I have attacked your family, although let's be clear you conflate your belief with you family. They are separate issues to me. I attack your families religous belief only, it is you including your physical bodies into that equation. I have not attacked your family, only your families ideology.
@InScienceITrust You are obligued to give people, basic respect. If you insult and try to tear down their lives, you will engage their wrath. This is true of everyone, atheist and deist alike. You must be delicate and considerate when you debate:
@havock89 I'm impressed you keep coming back, I agree with that to a point, except with religion or politics for that matter. Religion has received a pass for way to long in my opinion. New atheists will no longer bow to the altar of religion because it supposedly has some higher purpose. Consideration I agree, delicacy I do not. I have maintained, believe me! Many atheists and deists alike here on youtube get very nasty.
@InScienceITrust yes but you do bow at the altar of self-agrandization and socialism.
We do not give religion "untouchable status". You are obligued to give people, basic respect, and yet you insult and try to tear down the bedrock of their lives.
If you dont apply such basic civility and respect you are not being intellectually honest, you are being morally stupid. Which is what btw theists have always known anti-theists to be. You guys have a very bad reputation.
@InScienceITrust That is not true at all! What kind of dictionary are you using?!
Bigotry is the expression of hatred or aggression towards those who are different. Examples of bigotry include racism and religious intolerance. Bigotry is common among elitists, liberals, Muslims and homosexuals.
Some liberals deceitfully claim to uphold equality of all viewpoints and free speech, but are in fact routinely prejudiced against opposing viewps. Particularly bigoted against Christians.
@havock89 It is a matter of course in a hot debate to get into each others ire. I think we have done rather well. On vocation....that is questionable, drug dealers, prostitutes, con men, preachers....see? Now that is approaching nasty. Ask me about immoral bible passages. Judges 19:22 - 30
@InScienceITrust What is the point of discussing bible passages? You dont acknowledge the existence of God, so what is the point of me pointing out what inspiration is and how it works? Whats the point in explaining that even today God meets us where we are? You are incapable of understanding mans relationship to God, because you cannot understand Gods nature.
Christianity interprets the bible (a book it collated and authored) in light of the revelation of Christ.
cont... You must read the WHOLE of the passage and use the correct literary, historical and cultural context. Which you dont know.
I will PM you with a complete rundown of this scripture, but I will do no more. If you want to have an intellectually honest understanding of WHAT christianity ACTUALLY teaches and WHY. Then I suggest you subscribe to catholicTV ($10 per month) and you can get your fill.
@havock89 Intellectual honesty goes both ways, kinda like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You have made many statements I view as intellectually dishonest, as you seem to believe I have as well. I have heard, seen, read,
@InScienceITrust BTW I have never heard of someone calling being a drug dealer or a prostitute a vocation. They do not serve the good of society, they are parasites and at best, moral idiots. Lay preachers are protestants. they can make up any crap they want because they do not recognise the teaching authority of apostolic tradition, and so it does not suprise me they are on par with drug dealers and prostitutes. Your point is very weak.
@havock89 married 32 years, always paid my taxes, never arrested, 3 boys, high school teacher, deputy sheriff, & wildlife biologist, all better men than me. The only difference between you and I is you want to bring people into your belief and I want to convince people no belief is necessary.
@InScienceITrust That is a grose simplification at best! What a person does can in no way indicate what kind of person they are, or how "good/moral" they are. Being acclaimed a "better man that me" all depends on what kind of man you are, yes?
You try and prove a negative - that is impossible and illogical.
I try and show a positive - the utility and total truth of christianity as the church from age to age.
@havock89 I had given u a base example of myself and the type of person I am, I am an average joe. Who does not deserve hell from a human standpoint. Unlike a child molestor, (see recent catholic news story). So I fail to see how saying my sons are better men is a negative. Although I am happy to hear you use the phrase, as trying to prove God's existence is exactly that! Trying to prove a negative. It is an unknown. We both strive for truth as well I think that goes without saying.
@InScienceITrust Well average joes are far more prolific child molestors than priests are. So thats not a comparison I would recommend you use. I did not say your comment was negative, just that there was no way of knowing how positive it is, or you are. I would have to take your word on this.
Gods existence is not unknown to me, only to you. You are outside the box. And while we are back on the subject of hell. It is a greatly misunderstood teaching of orthodox catholic christianity.
@havock89 O and by your religion I burn for eternity in hell, just because I did not worship "him" but by my belief we all live and die freely and equally, with no judging supreme being. Who has the higher HUMAN moral ground here? Don't answer that! I know....GOD Does!
I guess calling somebody an idiot is what passes for wit in your circle... then again if you find reflect7's arguments persuasive that doesn't surprise me.
It is a statement of fact that I'm an "idiot?" And what wealth of information did you draw from to come to this conclusion? I'd love for you to remove all doubt and show your extensive evaluation process...
How pathetic humans are, fighting over land. It will only take them further and further from God. The kingdom of God is in our heart not on some rocky hill somewhere in the desert. If God were to be affected by human activity He would hang His head in Shame at His childrens actions, but He isn't, He is simply enjoying in the pasture fields with His associates waiting for us wake up to join Him. Haribol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Because it's God's chosen people, and Satan hates it. Those who are against Israel are against God, and will fall. Those with Israel will stand and be strong, God said so! And I believe that 100%.
The land is not what Abraham was promised. He was looking for a heavenly city. (Heb 11:9-10), It is not natural descendants that are Israel, it is not children of the flesh. Not all Israel is Israel, yet all Israel shall be saved. If our hearts have been circumcised by God, we are Israel. Paul said Jews were in bondage and in Hagar's flesh covenant. While there is history , that is not Israel . Jesus left their house desolate and poured out a spirit of stupor. When did that change?
Do you agree with everything the state of Israel does thats what I am interested in. As a believer in Jesus I dont agree with everything Israel does, Operation Cast Lead horrified me. Just do a search on Youtube and ask yourself whether that operation was right or wrong.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Those people are not the real Israelites. Hell even there own scholars say they are not. They are the people who are trying to fullfill the vision that the Most High spoke of. They are the imposters who parted the Most High's land. The real Israelites according to Deut. 28 are the negroes in America. Wake Up America!
The world is so focused on Israel because of the following: Israel is the birth of the first religion that belivees in one god. Israel is the only country in the world that is surrounded by enemy fascist countries that seek to destroy it, Israel is the only country in th world that rised and founded after 2000 years of living i exile, and Israel is the only country that its people have gone through holocaust.
ofri75 8 months ago
What makes us who we are is what we do.
SO what is Israel doing???
1muslimAli 10 months ago
Israel is a Apartheid run buy killers
PaulTheSurfJunkie 1 year ago
Fucking bollywood actor! Horrible acting
360atGOD 1 year ago
Don't bother with this one, the guy is a complete idiot!!!!
RushLimprod 1 year ago
Come back to earth boy!
This is the biggist American military base in the heart of the middle east .. and the arab world!! (take a look at a map!)
have u ever heard of OIL?
JORDAN (the biggist boarder with Israel) is artificially made just to protect Israel and separate between the conflict and the oil.
heared of radical muslims?
What about radical fanatic jews zaionists gathered in Palestine (OCCUPIED PALESTINE)..that u call Israel!... the front line in the fight victims...if they new...
4PalestineFREEDOM 1 year ago
What a great reason for the outright abolishment of iron age beliefs in our modern world!
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust How can you trust in science? Science is always uncertain and beyond that is uniquely based on judeo-christian philosophy that is unique in the world. How can you make a statement in your name that in science you trust and then go on to discredit the ironage beliefs that it is based on.
This is the sort of irrational thinking that I cant fathom from atheists.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 We obviously come at this from 2 very different points of view. The great thing about science is it admits uncertainty on unknown issues. But once an issue has been rigorously tested it becomes a fact. Science IS NOT based on judeo-christian philosophy. Uniquely based, unique in the world? What does that imply? Science is not a philosophy. You use a computer, deeply owed to scientific discovery to communicate like this and ask how can I trust in science?
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Oh contrare. Science is based on a rational universe imbued with rational laws. The laws of nature was originally a term that was based on animism - that all substances and elements in the universe had a spiritual nature that determined its form and its behaviour. Fire loved the sky, hence it would always try to fly to its beloved. All cultures had a varience of this natural philosophy, even islam which "claims" to come from judeo-roots.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 You are speaking pseudo science not modern science governed by systematic observable methods, like math, chemistry, experimentation, and empirical evidence. Rational is a subjective term. You can't seem to separate science from spiritualism and philosophy which has no place in todays scinece, maybe it did back in the middle ages, but not now. If we were discussing Universal Law, philosophy would be involved, we are discussing science.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust As I have said, all other cultures never had rational intelligable laws from a rational ordered universe. Only judeo-christianity led to this, propogated this and created science. None other had this cosmological view.
Historians of science disagree with you.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 When the phrase "iron age beliefs" is used, it does not refer to the science or process involved in the forging of iron. It refers to an era in time when the judeo-christian and other belief systems where formed. Science is not based on these beliefs, on the contrary science challenges and ultimately corrects faulty information. Irrational thinking all depends upon ones point of view. I could say the same thing about you. You don't trust science? That is stunning!
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust and christianity does the same thing with heresy. I trust science as far as it proves to be true and correct. However i do not place my trust IN science. It is a tool and only can be applied to proximal causation. The real important (teleological) things of life it is utterly silent on, and so it should be. Orthodox Catholic christianity does not confuse categories of science and religion.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 Only proximate causation? It goes much further than only that. No need to argue that. I agree science is and should be silent on issues of teology which belong to the metaphysical philosophies What is at issue here is when science begins to challenge and prove or disprove these concepts. I trust in reality, not in my or your imagination. Great talking to ya, Thanks for the debate.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust How does science go beyong proximal causation?
You dont have to respond. Nice talking to you too.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 It goes all the way from proximate to ultimate causation >truth in reality!
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust I disagree completely. Where does anywhere in science point to ultimate why something is so? Science has a scope, you go beyond that scope and you are using science as an ersatz. The scope of science is the identify the behaviour patterns of natural phenomenon. That proximal causation does equal reality.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 And with that statement I can only reply with an incredualous WOW? Seems to me you are saying science can prove nothing for certain. I agree science is a scope and the great thing is it is always looking to show how it is wrong, but there are certain laws and constants which are proven to an ultimate understanding and certainty. It sounds like you cannot accept this given. I agree with your tea analogy, not sure of the intent of it though.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Science explains adequately the "how" (proximal causation) not the "why". In the mordern world this is often confused. Before science existed (mid 9th century) the pre-science ancient world would replace the "how" with the "why" assuming there was nothing else to know. Science never explains the "why" that does not mean it cannot illuminate or show reality, only that it cannot show or illuminate all of reality.
havock89 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust cont..
A good example is how a kettle boils water. Radiation excites the water molecules to the point where there is a phase trasition between liquid to steam. That is science. The ultimate causation is that someone wants to make a cup of tea because they thirst.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 although the ultimate causation in this example is what made the water turn to steam? The true and ultimate causation factor is the radiation, or heat! The resulting product by adding organic matter is not the ultimate cause of the scientific reaction of heat to water. Answer if you like but I see this as a dead end.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Wrong. This is not what ultimate (teleological) causation is. It is the end of proximal causation.
Science can and never will be an adequate foundation for that which is most important in life: how we relate with each other. Prudence, Justice, Temperence, Courage, Love, Hope, Trust.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 Those are all philosophical issues, and i agree with you that science will do little to support those concepts as they are only found within the mind of a sentient being. Ya see you are coming at this from a completely different perspective, as a theist, I am looking at it from the science side.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@havock89 I accept the importance of all those life issues as well. This discussion started with, How can I trust in science though, just because I have that username does not mean I do not accept these aspects you mention, they just are not science. They are philosophies, and they cannot be accounted for by science. I think we can agree on that.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust I can agree with the majority of what you say here. Simply the word "trust" is not appropriate for science. We work actively to disprove theories in an effort to find the reality. So for me, you never trust in science, you use it and develop it. Not trust. Scientists make too many mistakes.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 We have come full circle, and I get what you mean. My intention with the name was a show of my contention with the use of In God we trust, I'm sure you realized that. I will stay with having more trust in science than with an imaginary deity which shows no evidence at all. I can experience and reason with science. There are many parts of science I trust, science created dynamite, it will explode I can trust in that. Check this link out if u have not already seen it.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust I dont "trust" dynamite. I know dynamite. Trust is required for faith, not for knowledge. I have to "trust" my brother because I cannot "know" what he is thinking from time to time, but I have sufficient interaction with him to form "trust". There is no basis for you to "trust" dynamite - or science for that matter. Science does not care a whit for you, and is only a mindless tool.
God is a first principle, and as such is either a self-evident truth or not.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 BTW on this point you always manage to twist my meanings, I do not suggest you trust dynamite, I suggest you can trust the fact that dynamite works, it does explode, believe it trust in it.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Read my comments again. Trust is not appropriate for that which is not a living entity. You "know" how dynamite works, you dont trust in it. Poor use of the word trust, and poor application with regards to science too.
But hey... dont want to labour the point too much. Chiao.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89
Final word!
With all that science has given mankind, in industry and medicine, and easing our way of life, I find it disconcerting that anyone would not give credit or trust, or confidence where it is due. If scientist took your view we would still be in the stone age. We learn by our mistakes, you can trust in that too.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust As I said earlier. Science could only have been born from christian theology. Seeing as christianity invented science and it brought us inexorably through the stone age and through the renneissance to today your statement is demonstrably fallacious.
Mankind equally does not learn by their mistakes. We take two steps forward and two steps back often. thats why empires rise and empires fall.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 "Science could only have been born from christian theology" I am stunned at your perception of what science is. Science has nothing at all to do with Christian theology and through this statement by you I can see this can go nowhere.
You have such a dim view of humankind, but that is what Christianity teaches you, is you are a sinner and not worthy.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Wrong again.
I have sinned. I do sin on occasion, but to correctly use the term sinner you must understand that a sinner is someone who loves that which is evil and wicked.
I have an accurate view of humankind, and so does christianity. But what you think christianity teaches about humanity herein is what is wrong.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 "Christianity invented Science"...What a laugh! You must be a died in the wool Christian fundamentalist to make such an outrageous claim. Just like I don't understand it so God did it reasoning. Christian insanity must end! We are done!
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust
How are you going to end christian insanity? By killing christians? that has been tried before ... By demeaning and ridiculing christianity? That has been done before too ... Seeing as you have said "we are done" I must also conclude that conversation and debate is not on the agenda as a means of making the "Christian insanity must end!" come to pass. Personally you are coming across as a somewhat bigoted individual at this point.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 By discussions like this, by not indoctrinating children, by humankind maturing and leaving it's childhood beliefs in the past. It won't happen in my life but in a few more generations, it may begin the end. I have no doubt it may not go away completely for a millenia. As far a demeaning and riduculing, yes absolutely, when you hear or see a ridiculous concept it deserves ridicule. This is not bigotry, I couyld say the same thing about you.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Actually people like myself have used conversations like this to galvanise themselves and realise the truth that exists within orthodox christianity. Millions upon millions each year are converting to christianity - so it seems it will not happen the way you hope.
I have not made the statements you have made, and you exclaimed "Christian insanity must end!" Demeaning and ridiculing something you dont understand is not an admirable trait.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 Please check this video out, here on you tube, by Evid3nc3, "The Values we all Stand For"
This guy just won $10,000 for this from Project Reason.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Yes. Atheists with a guitar, pattin geach other on the back about their newest piece of propoganda... Good job!
lol Not.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 Oh, I do thank you for the civil discussion though. We are not different where it really matters in living let's keep that in mind! We can be friends and disagree on these topics.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Of course I would like to be friends. But your last tirade seems to indicate the complete opposite.
I am christian, it is the very core of me being and my life. It is complete and flawless (unlike science) and delivers what it promises. The utility of christianity goes far beyond any other ideology or religion in existence and I love God with all my being.
When you threaten to end christianity you are attacking my family and the source of my life.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 I am not above apologizing to you if you feel I have attacked your family, although let's be clear you conflate your belief with you family. They are separate issues to me. I attack your families religous belief only, it is you including your physical bodies into that equation. I have not attacked your family, only your families ideology.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust You are obligued to give people, basic respect. If you insult and try to tear down their lives, you will engage their wrath. This is true of everyone, atheist and deist alike. You must be delicate and considerate when you debate:
1) their religion
2) their childrens behaviour
3) their ability to parent
4) their spouse or partner
5) their vocation
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 I'm impressed you keep coming back, I agree with that to a point, except with religion or politics for that matter. Religion has received a pass for way to long in my opinion. New atheists will no longer bow to the altar of religion because it supposedly has some higher purpose. Consideration I agree, delicacy I do not. I have maintained, believe me! Many atheists and deists alike here on youtube get very nasty.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust yes but you do bow at the altar of self-agrandization and socialism.
We do not give religion "untouchable status". You are obligued to give people, basic respect, and yet you insult and try to tear down the bedrock of their lives.
If you dont apply such basic civility and respect you are not being intellectually honest, you are being morally stupid. Which is what btw theists have always known anti-theists to be. You guys have a very bad reputation.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 Your comment over the video dismissing it as atheist with guitars, that was not bigotted? Bogotry:
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust That is not true at all! What kind of dictionary are you using?!
Bigotry is the expression of hatred or aggression towards those who are different. Examples of bigotry include racism and religious intolerance. Bigotry is common among elitists, liberals, Muslims and homosexuals.
Some liberals deceitfully claim to uphold equality of all viewpoints and free speech, but are in fact routinely prejudiced against opposing viewps. Particularly bigoted against Christians.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 It is a matter of course in a hot debate to get into each others ire. I think we have done rather well. On vocation....that is questionable, drug dealers, prostitutes, con men, preachers....see? Now that is approaching nasty. Ask me about immoral bible passages. Judges 19:22 - 30
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust What is the point of discussing bible passages? You dont acknowledge the existence of God, so what is the point of me pointing out what inspiration is and how it works? Whats the point in explaining that even today God meets us where we are? You are incapable of understanding mans relationship to God, because you cannot understand Gods nature.
Christianity interprets the bible (a book it collated and authored) in light of the revelation of Christ.
havock89 1 year ago
cont... You must read the WHOLE of the passage and use the correct literary, historical and cultural context. Which you dont know.
I will PM you with a complete rundown of this scripture, but I will do no more. If you want to have an intellectually honest understanding of WHAT christianity ACTUALLY teaches and WHY. Then I suggest you subscribe to catholicTV ($10 per month) and you can get your fill.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 Intellectual honesty goes both ways, kinda like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You have made many statements I view as intellectually dishonest, as you seem to believe I have as well. I have heard, seen, read,
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust BTW I have never heard of someone calling being a drug dealer or a prostitute a vocation. They do not serve the good of society, they are parasites and at best, moral idiots. Lay preachers are protestants. they can make up any crap they want because they do not recognise the teaching authority of apostolic tradition, and so it does not suprise me they are on par with drug dealers and prostitutes. Your point is very weak.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 married 32 years, always paid my taxes, never arrested, 3 boys, high school teacher, deputy sheriff, & wildlife biologist, all better men than me. The only difference between you and I is you want to bring people into your belief and I want to convince people no belief is necessary.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust That is a grose simplification at best! What a person does can in no way indicate what kind of person they are, or how "good/moral" they are. Being acclaimed a "better man that me" all depends on what kind of man you are, yes?
You try and prove a negative - that is impossible and illogical.
I try and show a positive - the utility and total truth of christianity as the church from age to age.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 I had given u a base example of myself and the type of person I am, I am an average joe. Who does not deserve hell from a human standpoint. Unlike a child molestor, (see recent catholic news story). So I fail to see how saying my sons are better men is a negative. Although I am happy to hear you use the phrase, as trying to prove God's existence is exactly that! Trying to prove a negative. It is an unknown. We both strive for truth as well I think that goes without saying.
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Well average joes are far more prolific child molestors than priests are. So thats not a comparison I would recommend you use. I did not say your comment was negative, just that there was no way of knowing how positive it is, or you are. I would have to take your word on this.
Gods existence is not unknown to me, only to you. You are outside the box. And while we are back on the subject of hell. It is a greatly misunderstood teaching of orthodox catholic christianity.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89 O and by your religion I burn for eternity in hell, just because I did not worship "him" but by my belief we all live and die freely and equally, with no judging supreme being. Who has the higher HUMAN moral ground here? Don't answer that! I know....GOD Does!
InScienceITrust 1 year ago
@InScienceITrust Wrong again. You burn in hell because thats what you want to do. Hell is an act of Gods mercy.
I look forward to your response.
havock89 1 year ago
Canals huh???
1875 - Rothschild imperial bankers buy Suez Canal on behalf of a broke Britain empire, (Egypt) - 90 Years of regional dominance/control.
1882 - Rothschild establishes first Jewish Colonies in Palestine.
1924 - Rothschild founders of Jewish Colonization Association (Russian Jews to Palestine - Enter: HAGANAH, LEHI, IRGUN, STERN GANG - Terrorist Groups)
1950 - Adolf Schwimmer/David Ben Gurion corrupt/hijack US Congress, Pentagon, Media -
1963 Fulbright Hearings, FBI, JFK
.
ballsauce666 1 year ago
God, the cosmic real estate broker.
Tcrowaf 1 year ago
Tcrowaf, the mocking idiot.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89
Ah, your post was like mine, without the wit.
Tcrowaf 1 year ago
@Tcrowaf - hardly.
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89
I guess calling somebody an idiot is what passes for wit in your circle... then again if you find reflect7's arguments persuasive that doesn't surprise me.
Tcrowaf 1 year ago
@Tcrowaf Just a statement of fact. Not to be confused with wit.
Some advice from a wise head. Abraham Lincoln 1809 to 1865
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."
havock89 1 year ago
@havock89
It is a statement of fact that I'm an "idiot?" And what wealth of information did you draw from to come to this conclusion? I'd love for you to remove all doubt and show your extensive evaluation process...
Tcrowaf 1 year ago
Where's your dad been all his life not to know why Israel is in the news everyday?
cmk1964 1 year ago
How pathetic humans are, fighting over land. It will only take them further and further from God. The kingdom of God is in our heart not on some rocky hill somewhere in the desert. If God were to be affected by human activity He would hang His head in Shame at His childrens actions, but He isn't, He is simply enjoying in the pasture fields with His associates waiting for us wake up to join Him. Haribol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ConorRyan22 1 year ago
Because it's God's chosen people, and Satan hates it. Those who are against Israel are against God, and will fall. Those with Israel will stand and be strong, God said so! And I believe that 100%.
SexOffenderIssues002 1 year ago
It makes the news because a bunch of Jewish Supremacists that claim they are a Western Democracy have created 4 million refugees by stealing land.
What kind of crazy society is this, and why would anybody support this insanity?
fuzzywzhe 1 year ago
The land is not what Abraham was promised. He was looking for a heavenly city. (Heb 11:9-10), It is not natural descendants that are Israel, it is not children of the flesh. Not all Israel is Israel, yet all Israel shall be saved. If our hearts have been circumcised by God, we are Israel. Paul said Jews were in bondage and in Hagar's flesh covenant. While there is history , that is not Israel . Jesus left their house desolate and poured out a spirit of stupor. When did that change?
Formertelecomguy 1 year ago
Do you agree with everything the state of Israel does thats what I am interested in. As a believer in Jesus I dont agree with everything Israel does, Operation Cast Lead horrified me. Just do a search on Youtube and ask yourself whether that operation was right or wrong.
cheekydance 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Those people are not the real Israelites. Hell even there own scholars say they are not. They are the people who are trying to fullfill the vision that the Most High spoke of. They are the imposters who parted the Most High's land. The real Israelites according to Deut. 28 are the negroes in America. Wake Up America!
raieyez 1 year ago
@raieyez
?WHAT!?!
Ironhoist 1 year ago
5 stars (at least)
weberly2 1 year ago