:: Us, the psychopaths : Game theory and market democracy ::

[LogicalFlawDetector]

And game theory is not a science of human behavior. It is an applied mathematical field which only says what the optimal strategy is. Under market situations, human beings maximize benefits and firms maximize profits *within the rules of the game*.

[LogicalFlawDetector]

Leftwing crap like this is the reason why I became a libertarian. Pursuit of self-interest is simply human beings responding to incentives. If I am given two different jobs, all else being equal, of $100,000 and $150,000 a year, it is in my self-interest to pick the second job. It comes down to good incentives vs bad incentives. And being self-interested doesn't mean we ignore other aspects of culture and charity. Giving to charity is in my emotional self-interest.

[odenskrigare]

Psychopathy isn't psychosis. That's insulting to psychotics.

[edwardsson777]

For a good description of the traits of psychopaths and how they relate to politics go to "freedom from conscience -- psychopaths" and check out the video. Scary stuff.

[pipobun]

it's funny how in this film rational is considered the psychopathic, also the guy that thought up game theory was a paranoid schizophrenic.

people don't act the model of game theory in real life.

[MrCynix]

@pipobun It's not that rationality is psychopathic. What they are trying to convey is that with psychopaths, rationality is the sole factor in the equation - where as normal welladjusted human beings consider emotions, just to name one. And game theory doesn't dictate people's decisions, it merely maps out what is the rational response to any given arbitrary situation. Something along those lines. Oh, and Nash didn't think up game theory, only the nash equilibrium.

Peace.

[CytherLynx]

Also!!!

Austrian economics > Keynesianism

READ:

economics in one lesson

[CytherLynx]

people here should read 'the law', by bastiat

[currentliabilities]

Capitalism superior to democracy....??? Don't they know they are 2 separate things completely? Democracy is a political institution to make decisions that have consequences for the entire society. Capitalism is an economic system in which market participants own the factors of production and resources allocation is decided by actions of those participants. The only way democracy relates to economics is by voting decisions that pool money (taxes) that are used to buy public goods (police, roads).

[mujaku]

Market democracy brought you this recession not to mention 47 others including over 6 depressions.

[goPistons06]

game theory isn't a bogus science that describes humans as suspicious poker players, it's a study of human nature that has changed economics, buisines, and even biology.

[Isamright33]

isn't it ironic that alal greenspan is part of the organization which monitors and controls the economy, and at the same time supports a free market, in a sense, he is the lion pretending to be king of the rabbits.

[derdriui]

But with free market, the senators are brought out by the companies!

[oiuoiu988]

thats not a free market if senators can be bought, its called state capitalism.

[waqasy]

so, economists = psychopaths?

lol

[rh7onda7]

the "free" market gave us enron, bear sterns, lehmans , trilion dollar bailout - free markets only work if fully transparent and appropriate regulations are in place - else the sociopaths in business and governments will make the ordinary citizen suffer

[oiuoiu988]

the government gave us enron and bear sterns, not the free market.

way to demonstrate your ignorance!

[arch571332]

@rh7onda7 No, free market did not give us any of those things. Politicians directly and indirectly caused all those problems. I'd be glad to send you some PMs to explain.

[Decarock10]

@rh7onda7 how is a government bailout a free market principle? how are government regulators not doing their job a problem of the free market? just curious

[oiuoiu988]

this is SUCH a retarded explanation of game theory. it would make people think that game theory would prevent people from donating to charities, when in fact its the opposite. and they have self-interest mixed up with FREEDOM TO CHOOSE.

[derdriui]

what do charities have to do with this video? When you donate, you can donate tactically.

[oiuoiu988]

if youre too dumb to understand my comment, dont reply to it.

[JUNKYARDOGvideos]

the secutarys cooperate because it is rational to the group.

humans form quickly and easily into gangs...'us and them' is key to democracy

[JUNKYARDOGvideos]

democracy and capatalism are the ugly sisters of a world market confederacy.

capitilists will always fight for a larger share for themselves using democracy as the excuse for war.

[AdamantEthos]

First, the economic meltdown disposes this truth. Second, there is no such thing as a pure democracy since a ruling party, even if elected, is a democratic dictatorship.

Instead, regulation protects against market failures.  Second, that regulation should be dispersed as equal representation of political parties of the right, center, and left sharing power much how citizens think.

[ProudlyFree]

The problem is no model can ever predict how the game will end because of all the variables. People, even the most selfish can sacrifice themselves given the right circumstances. Even against there proven nature.

I find it a waste of time to model or define all this anyway.

People, are both predictable and unpredictable at times.

Constantly trying to understand the craziness that we are by rationalizing systems overlooks this truth. Math can't define choice; not for the long run.

[ProudlyFree]

what astonishes me is that no seems to get that when a representative government is run honourably with the best interests of the people it's true purpose ist to protect the citizens..

Look what happened when clinton gave up on welfare and renegged on his reforms turning the system over to the marketplace. What he did in effect was give the power over to the corporation.

Big money took over and people were worse off, not better. People with big money, typically are self-motivated.

[baTonkaTruck]

This presentation of game theory is incomplete. It must be remembered that the preservation of the system that provides satisfaction of your self-interests is also a priority to the individual. While such preservation is ultimately self-serving, it does force the individual to act, at least in part, for the sake of that group or system, as well as the individual. A poker player couldn't make any money if he didn't have any opponents now could he? A CEO couldn't produce without employees. etc.

[boslot]

i think american warfare is LOGISTICALLY INFERIOR...and they should not fuck up with china...(logistics????)

[AnotherGlenn]

It is in my self interest to cooperate with the people I see every day.

[Philipergrits]

Once you corporate with others, it no longer becomes self interest but a collective understanding. The entire concept of game theory is ridiculous and is a dishonor to men like the ones in Iraq who fight for interests far greater than their own.

[observationspring]

"a dishonor to men like the ones in Iraq who fight for interests far greater than their own."

Now, who would argue with that? Except, perhaps, those, who decide, which interests are profitable fighting for.

Watch 'John Perkins : How to make a terrorist', and 'War! : Hooah! : What is it good for?'. Get a clue.

[Philipergrits]

People like you just have no basic understanding of government or the concept of philosophical values. When you examine the spartan culture or even look at what the founding fathers accomplished, they looked beyond their own interests and focused on the entire community,even if it meant being stripped of everything they owned or their lives...that sir has nothing to do with profit but everything to do with doing what is morally right.

peace

[boslot]

with all due respect..i dont know if i just lack sleep due to research of this kind of matter or maybe i just dont have the "common sense" but in my own opinion GO FUCK YOURSELVES WITH YOUR OWN COLLECTIVE THOUGHTS AND RATIONAL REACTIONS AND LEAVE THIS AS THESIS FOR THOSE WHO'SE ABOUT TO EARN THEIR PH.D..... im sorry, is that alright??? coz you...and you...dont know SHIT!

[captownstateofmind]

Sel Interest is what causes americans to join the american army and go to iraq and not the Kenyan army for no good reason.

The American army is more inline with their self interest being americans then the Kenyan army whos raise or fall has nothing to do with their self interest

[Philipergrits]

If merely self interest is what motivates Americans to join the army how do you explain Pat Tillman?

[boslot]

thats just D  U M B ...... america....

[670Kiester]

I've watched The Century Of The Self and The Trap by Adam Curtis and found them to be brilliant. What's so crap about this?

[RevolutionaryJam]

anyone who liked this vid should check out The Shock Doctrine by Naiomi Klein

[knave2]

And "The Century of Self" by the BBC.

[RevolutionaryJam]

cool i might just check that out now, cheers

[sleepyeyeguy]

Something that isn't really being considered is the extreme malability of the views of the herd. Marketing is a loophole to individual freedom (people are easily influenced by strong psychological tactics)

[rspawn]

"Something that isn't really being considered is the extreme malability of the views of the herd."

That is extremely important; especially the herd itself is not aware how easily it is manipulated.

[observationspring]

Yep. The "shadow of the future" leads to cooperation.

The problem is that the shadow is way too short at the markets - the shareholders are interested in quaterly profits, not those five-ten years in the future. The same applies to the popular, PR informed politics.

[rspawn]

I think it's not entirely true that corporations don't look ahead long-term. After all, the current value of many (large) corporations is based on long term loans and investments. So they are aware of the importance of the long term future.

[observationspring]

- The long term problems are systemic, theoretic and lie in some hazy future.

- The punishment for the slump in the quarterly profits is immediate and personal.

The people in the corporate management are not heroes or martyrs (if they were, they would be quickly replaced, see Drucker interview in 'Corporation : Clinical Diagnosis (PCLR)') and can do the math just like you and me (better actually, since I am not a CEO).

[rspawn]

Game Theory does in fact show that in multi-step games, cooperation is the more profitable strategy for both sides.

[Acquaclara]

...depending on the type of game you play. The result is for the prisoners dilema. Other game setups show that it's optimal to cheat from time to time.

[sprichbeeke]

Very inteesting series! Thanks for posting!