The Crime of FVR: Is Rozeboosje operating under a double standard?

[onlyAerik]

You wouldn't do what?

They never laughed at the people in the church at all.  they slightly giggled AT NYK b/c he was collecting money. Nyk smiled back at them. Then they sat seriously. One kept a cracker. And by the way, they didn't tell the people in the church that the cracker was hostage. That was edited in when they got home.

So you're saying... what? your head's up your ass too b/c you can't even see they did not laugh at anybody in the church.

[t3nGu666]

Agreed and subbed

[5810singer]

You're just another person who's misrepresenting Rozeboosje's video.

He never mentions "respect for religion" in his video.

[MistressArte]

LMAO I'm self religious (Athesit are more moral by default ;)) but I will make fun of religion. ;) Also yes I would giggle at too. Also XD I have to eat with my left hand. XD <- left handed. It's not like the stripped down naked and ran around saying we are in the garden of eden and yell where is the lettuce where is the lettuce? T__T

[dmwalker24]

The religious have so much respect for us don't they? The religious never distort our position, right?

When people do other equally stupid things it's open season to ridicule their stupidity. As far as I'm concerned what goes on inside a church is no different. They habitually call us evil and immoral and yet Atheists are going to defend their hurt feelings. Self destructive behavior at it's finest.

[gpplascencia]

Si no quieres que me ria de tus creencias, no tengas creencias tan graciosas.

[Asylumer]

Like the Emperor who had invisible clothes woven for him, the only way to wake up the religious is with laughter. Otherwise they will convince themselves that their ridiculous beliefs are only misunderstood by those who are inferior and too stupid to understand their merit. Mockery is a fitting punishment for religion's arrogance.

[scepticVseptic]

Are there no boundaries to mocking? What about muslims are cockroaches?

[MrBadOmen]

If pino thought that was bad he should really see this

/watch?v=VABSoHYQr6k

hilarious.

[MrBadOmen]

That was one the first videos I saw of phils. Fucking classic.

[onlywhenprovoked]

I really like Pino but I'm glad I didn't leave any ironic racist jokes on his blog like I did on yours. I think he would have been offended.

I think it really is just a matter of subjective personal taste in comedy.

I thought the church video was moderately funny and as I said on the other videos- he showed great respect when he went around with the collection plate. He could have ruined the ceremony but didn't.

[NaomiChambers]

Johnny

Pino posted a comment on my video saying Philhellenes video was not offensive because he was laughing at one person.

Ours was offensive because we laughed at a group of people - the Muslims

Therefore, according to him, the number of people we mock is what makes the big difference for him.

[onlywhenprovoked]

He lives in Ireland where they still have the blasphemy law. I can't help but wonder if this factors in with how he feels.

[SSanf]

Naomi, my objection was not that they mocked the idea of communion wafers but rather that they used deception and trickery to obtain a sacred article for the sole purpose of desecrating it.

That kind of abuse of the trust of the priest and the religious organization is plain reprehensible.

The desecration of religious objects is, in and of itself, reprehensible because of the way it has been historically used to demoralize and break up the social cohesiveness of entire cultures.

[SSanf]

I have no problem with mocking any religion all day long. But, when anyone deceitfully and under false pretenses, accepts the gift of a religious object deemed holy for the purpose of desecrating it, I have major problems with that behavior.

[Relativisticism]

@SSanf it is a fucking cracker. That is it, it's not holy in any way. Where would you draw the line anyways? What if I said everything was holy or sacred? You can't do anything then because you are afraid you might desecrate all these holy things. It is just absurd.

[SSanf]

If it were only a fucking cracker, there would have been nothing interesting enough about it for you to make a video. It is clearly more than a cracker, even to you.

[SSanf]

Of course, to religious people everything is considered belonging to or derived from or associated with a divine power and therefore holy and worthy of respect in an all-encompassing universal sense.

However, there is a different level of honor given to sacred objects and religious tools. Having been included in some blessing type ritual generally differentiates them.

You know what? I am guessing you already knew that. That is why you boorishly desecrated the cracker instead of a common object

[Relativisticism]

To one person a sacred item is just a common object. In the video just before you see FvR does the ransom bit you hear her ask, "What are we suppose to do with it?" This points out that she did not see it as anything special, so does it really matter what she did with it? No. If she put it in her pocket or her stomach what difference does it make?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with what they did. The might have been giggling at Nick doing the collection plate but who wouldn't in their spot?

[SSanf]

How she perceives it is irrelevant to the fact that she desecrated it. The reason that is so is because people do not desecrate items that they, themselves, deem holy or sacred. They desecrate what the other guy deems holy or sacred.

[SSanf]

Desecration of religious objects is done for the purpose of inflicting emotional stress, sorrow or pain on the people who revere the objects. It is done to demoralize, humiliate and degrade the believers. More importantly than the above reasons, which taken alone could be acceptable, it is done to undermine the cohesion of religious people and their contribution to the culture.

If you do not already have a basic understanding of why that is wrong, there is not much more that I can tell you.

[MrBadOmen]

"Desecration of religious objects is done for the purpose of inflicting emotional stress, sorrow or pain on the people who revere the objects"

So I can't hold a bible and make a joke about it? Or a Qu'ran? What is your point exactly, that religious people are too sensitive about a petty item? I respect freedom of expression. It's a shame you don't feel the same. You don't have the right to not be offended.

[SSanf]

Certainly you can hold a Bible and make a joke about it.

However, if you go into a church and obtain the Bible by deception with the sole purpose of desecrating it, I sure will not think very highly of you. If you want to mock a Bible get it some other way and, hopefully, get one that has not been blessed and, therefore, is only a book and not a sacred religious object.

Had they gone out and bought a box of crackers, I wouldn have had no problem with it.

[MrBadOmen]

"How she perceives it is irrelevant to the fact that she desecrated it."

You really have no backbone do you?

[SSanf]

Well, I certainly have enough backbone to state that an action is wrong when it is clearly wrong.

[Sarahon06]

Only trouble is that this 'desecration' isn't "clearly" wrong. You think it is. Nothing to clear about that.

[Fromanttodugong]

It is far more than a cracker to us.... Its a cracker we know to be only a cracker but we also know that you are gullible enough to think its holy..... Personally I think you should be greatful that it was not I who got hold of the cracker. I would place it in a jar, piss in the jar, call it "piss christ 2" and send to the museum of modern art.

[HeavyTrafficAhead]

PZMeyers took a shit load of crap for 'Cracker-Gate', from believers and non believers alike. He knew he would take heat for it and he did, unlike the whining I'm hearing here. If you're going to do shit like that prepare to take your lumps. BTW, you need a third category:Those that think that comedy should be left to the professionals, because this shit was 'double plus unfunny'.

[InfectedDaemon]

Wow, Johnny, that is a great thing that you don't know FactVsReligion, it means you have a life. That you have lived free from YouTube! Sadly I can't say the same for myself...

[SpinozasPsyche]

i had no idea. It was shocking to learn she had 12k subs!!!!! I mean, wow! I guess I'm still kind of old school here.

[KraisinsGhost]

and BTW - I thought the Muslim video you and Naomi did was hilarious but the funniest bits were not your commentary but the ridiculous beliefs themselves.

[KraisinsGhost]

I must admit, I don't get Pino's irritation. I thought it was rather silly. I do not see why what they did was offensive but (for example) Xena, Warrior Princess's frequent mockery of the Greek pantheon is not offensive. I think our 'modern' religions still command respect far beyond what is necessary. Be polite to people at all times, yes. I do not believe however that a belief once proven foolish, is worthy of respect.

[KingHeathen]

Just curious...

which of those two categories do you think that I fit into? It's certainly not beyond me to make fun of someone when they do something stupid...yet on a whole I do try to stay respectful and rational for as long as the situation allows

[SpinozasPsyche]

Actually, I was thinking about you on the way back from the lab. I was thinking that you don't exactly fit in any category. You DO stay respectful--but you seem to let everyone else have their fun. However, I would definitely invite you to a party. You seem to be a very fun guy to hang around.

[KingHeathen]

sure, you could invite me to your party...

But I'd drink all of the good beer!

[philhellenes]

I really don't get Pino's rage over this. He keeps talking about the look on their faces. Huh? That can't be all it is. I just can't see the harm. It was a prank. No one was hurt. No one wept. They didn't paint the walls. They didn't spit on the floor. They didn't laugh in the priest's face. One of them took the collection plate around when asked! (Pino saw a smirk after it was done though).

They went and took a "Jesus biscuit" and mocked the beliefs concerning it. And why NOT? I'm baffled.

[NaomiChambers]

@philhellenes

I am trying to understand it as well. I fear something has changed Pino. Maybe it is personal, maybe youtube changed him. But one thing is certain, he is not the same Pino many of us grew to admire over the years. I have sensed that something was amiss for a while now.

[KasparHauser4]

I agree with what you are saying johnny. Especially when it comes to the muslims. I cannot understand folks who stick up for them at all. For me the reason why I can never stick up for the muslims is they are sworn to kill atheists. They may cut some slack to "people of the book" meaning christians and jews but the Quran is clear that atheists and pagans are to be killed on sight.

Now the Catholics want to eliminate secular humanist and their philosophies but they do it through democratic means