Many of the reasons stated in this video on why the trinity is wrong is exactly why islam, Jehovah Witness and various other religions have been created, Man doesn't understand something so they get rid of it for something they can understand. We can only go on what the Bible says. The Bible hints at the Trinity. It's about faith. I can accept that I don't know everything about the nature of God. At the end of the Day Jesus is the way. There's a reason why He is both the most loved/hated of all
@erfbgu I make plenty of sense. Its evident in the Quran that Muhammed had a problem with the trinity just as the Jehovah Witnesses do. Jesus already came and died for man's sins then Muhammed comes 400 yrs later with a new revelation? Jesus said He is the Way, Truth and Life NOONE goes to the Father except through Him. Not Muhammed. Islam is works friend but you probably know this and have no problem with it. But the bible says our works are like a filthy rag. You can't work your way to Heaven.
Kemel El Mekki needs to read the Bible and not simply spout Muslim rhetoric. Jesus was clear about being Divine and accepted worship from people. If Jesus is a good prophet then he must have acted right. If he acted right, Jesus is not simply a prophet but Divine. For all the words on the need for clarity, both these guys are extremely dull and uninformed.
BTW. Jesus accepted worship from others: He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him (John 9:38); And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted (Matthew 28:17). So, is Jesus a prophet who lies or is Jesus Divine? Muslims, can't have it both ways ...
I believe there is one egg - there are three parts that make up that egg. The yoke, the white and the encasement which makes them all one egg, which is called the shell (God). Comprehend? ONE GOD YAWEH consisting of three equal entities. If one part is missing it is not an egg (G0d) .
I believe there is one egg - there are three parts that make up that egg. The yoke, the white and thee encasement which makes them all one egg, which is called the shell (God). Comprehend? ONE GOD YAWH consisting of three equal entities. If one part is missing it is not an egg (G0d) .
Anyone claiming that youngs double slit experiment somehow proves the trinity is simply desperate. The premise for refuting the trinity is not based on whether or not God is capable of being three in one because the idea of an omnipotent God means that it is feasible. The argument against the trinity is based on the flawed logic that God would need to do this and also based on the fact that the Bible itself contradicts such a notion.
@Min90Ra muslims r not stupid. never said they were. Jesus was sent to Jews first during his ministry but later sent his disciples to the whole world- Matthew 28:19. We accept that God's eternal Word was dwelling in Jesus like you accept that God's eternal word is in the Quran. Is the Quran eternal like God? Most muslims theologians say yes. So even in Islam you have both God and His Word are eternal. So do you have two eternal things? no because God and His word are one together connected
@Min90Ra aliens r interesting my muslim bro but to speculate about the theological implications is a little silly since we do not know the nature of the things.
look at the stories of Islam and Christianity- Both Jesus and Muhammad are mistreated by their people. Muhammad flees and gains justice by conquering his enemies in Mecca and the Quraish. Jesus does not flee, let's his enemies crucify him and he dies for them and rises again. Muhammad=justice. Jesus=Love. who do u follow?
@Min90Ra that is my point muslim bro, talking about aliens is very speculative. what if they are like transformers/machines and dont need salvation. what if they are more angelic/spiritual than physical? who knows
@Min90Ra what? how would the existence of aliens prove christianity wrong? also, what would these aliens be like? there is so much speculation in that but jesus did claim to be god's unique son, so either he was or he was wrong, a false teacher or insane. all his apostles taught it as well
@Min90Ra r u an atheist troll posing as a muslim? aliens? i dont know, my best guess- probably but if their are aliens, i think they are not limited to our space/time dimension but i digress. "begotten" and "unique" are the same thing. the greek word used in King James bible as "begotten" is "monogenes" which means "one of a kind" "unique. Christian theologians have never thought Jesus was literally the son of God made through physical sex
@Min90Ra jesus did teach that he was god's unique son, that is why jewish leaders wanted him killed. his closest apostles also taught this and that his death was for forgiveness of sins.
let me ask u muslim brother, who would know the teaching of prophet muhammad better, the companions like uthman, aisha, abu bakr and ali or a prophet centuries later like bahahullah of bahai faith?
@Min90Ra our god (yours to) is full of love and did not destroy muhammad but gave him free will just like all of us. If God were to destroy all evil doers, he would have to destroy all of us because we all have gone astray.
Like i said, muhammad is not pure evil like hitler or satan and islam teaches good things but there are also things that are incomplete. Islam is like Judaism, many good laws but not a way for forgiveness. Only in Jesus did God reveal His full unconditional love gospel
@Min90Ra i dont know why god allowed muhammad to exist, god is beyond us in many ways. why did god allow satan or hitler to exist? i dont know, free will is my best guess.
also i did not say muhammad was evil or crazy, he was just wrong about many things
@Min90Ra the evidence for the death of jesus is overwhelming. bart ehrman (the darling of muslims) states that it is the one historical fact we can know about Jesus for certain. It is funny that this is one of the Things the Koran denies (Surah 4). so here is a question for you. if god spoke directly to muhammad, how would god get it sooo wrong about one of his greatest prophets?
when muslims say they need to be able to understand God they show they are only worshipping a god that can fit in their finite minds and not the true God as he is in reality. If God exists, He will not fit into our piss ant brains
@agnostaxian If He can not fit in our brains/mentality, then He SURELY can not fit into our bodies. Thus, the idea of GOD becoming a man is ludicrous.
Secondly, the whole point of mankind being created is to worship GOD. So, man need to be able to understand the basic concept of GOD to do this. Thus, ALLAH(s.w.t) says in Al-Qur'an:
"Say, "He is Allah , the one and only one, Allah the eternal refuge, He neither begets nor was he born, Nor is there anything like Him"(Qur'an-112)
@JabrilAbdullah Jesus had both a divine nature and human nature so God did not fit in Jesus' body. Both Christians and Muslims believe God is omnipresent correct? Jesus as a human was in one place at one time but Jesus as God was present everywhere- two natures- one person. This is a mystery but that is why i say if your God is totally "logical" then he is a creation of your limited mind and not the true infinite God that should baffle us
@agnostaxian Saying he have a divine nature and undivine nature is akin to saying he was a square-circle, or a married-bachelor. It's a logical fallacy. Yes, GOD is omnipresent, which is why an incarnation is uncalled for. Also, "God is not the author of confusion". So, if being illogical is a mystery/confusion, then GOD is not the author of it. Thus, the incarnation, deity of Christ(a.s), and trinity goes out the window. GOD doesn't want you confused or 'baffled' when worshiping him correctly.
@JabrilAbdullah Do you understand how God can be infinite/omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent?? explain that to me logically. God is not the author of confusion is a quote Paul was making about how a worship service should be run to the Corinthians. Physicists have demonstrated how electrons are both a particle and a wave. Explain that. Also, how electrons can be in multiple places at one time. Explain that. If your God does not baffle you, then he is a creation of your mind and not the real God
@agnostaxian Simply put, GOD is infinite in His wisdom. That is logically &philosophically sound. I have no contest with the quote "God is not the author of confusion". Because it's true. If the whole reason why man was created was to worship GOD, then we have to have some sense of what we're worshiping. That's why GOD said "The Lord is ONE". Not 3 in 1 or 1 in 3. Also, I think you need to revisit quantum physics lol. GOD lays out His commands in clarity. Worship the ONE God. No confusion there
@JabrilAbdullah No I asked you to explain how God is infinite. You just stated that he was. and with quantum mechanics, you should revisit it. How can an electron be both a particle and wave, how? How can an electron be in more than one place at a time? This stuff baffles physicists, how much more the God who created Physical reality?
@agnostaxian Well, philosophically, GOD is not finite. He has to be immaterial and indivisible. For a better understanding you'll have to go to the revelations sent down from GOD. Again, you need to study the Wave-Particle duality and the Double-slit experiment. These phenomenons aren't exactly what you're claiming. Regardless, a wave and a particle aren't opposites of each other. Divine and undivine are EXACT opposites of each other. Thus, logically can't be true.
@JabrilAbdullah yes, i agree that God is not finite but what is infinity like? how is something infinite? explain that. No a wave and a particle are totally different functions how how a thing could work. How can something be spread out over a "wave" of an area yet be in one place at a time. This is exactly what the double slit experiment shows my muslim bro. electrons are in multiple positions at the same time?
also, Xian theologians do not think Jesus's divine nature is human or vice versa
@agnostaxian Do you need a dictionary? Infinite is infinite. As I said, regardless, a wave and a particle aren't opposites of each other. Divine and un-divine are EXACT opposites of each other. You can't have a All-Knowing being who is also ignorant. It's a logical fallacy.
I know christian theologians think Jesus(p) was fully divine and fully human, but that doesn't make sense. Nor is it biblicaly sound, since the bible is against God being a man/mortal.
@JabrilAbdullah yes, a wave and particle are opposites in physics, study the double slit experiment. jesus humanity and divinity are distinct. but here is the thing, jesus did claim divinity (John 8:58), either u accept it or he is insane. The Koran is wrong so many times. The New Testament was written within 1 generation of Jesus by many early disciples, the Koran 600 years later by 1 guy. One fact we know about Jesus is that He was crucified, the Koran gets this wrong (surah 4:157).
@agnostaxian Not necessarily. And it still doesn't explain anything, because the quantum matter switch from behaving like a wave to a particle and vice verse. And no he didn't. The blind man said "I am", yet christians don't take him as a god. Show me one verse of Jesus(p) saying, "I am God". The Qur'an isn't wrong about anything and it doesn't matter when it was revealed, because it's from GOD. And Jesus(p) wasn't crucified, even with evidences from the bible.
@JabrilAbdullah cont..But if u need a God that is perfectly logical and understandable to your finite mind then u are just worshiping an object of your imagination and an idol and not the true God as he is in reality.
@agnostaxian No one can truly know GOD inside and out. Only the All-Knowing has that kind of knowledge. However, if humans were made to worship GOD, then we must not be confused in worship. That's why GOD said, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord your GOD, the Lord is ONE". Not three in one or one in three; just ONE.
All christian scholars agree that the trinity is mysterious and essential to salvation. But, GOD is not the author of confusion/mystery, so this idea is false.
@JabrilAbdullah also, I would say the same thing about Jesus being both human and divine as u said about God's infinity. It is what is revealed. Jesus taught that he was God's unique Son, above all the prophets (Mark 12:1-12) and that what was speaking through him was the Eternal word that spoke to Moses (John 8:58). But Jesus was also a full human. The apostles of Jesus taught this as well. Either Jesus was lying or he was both divine and human. a good prophet is not an option
@agnostaxian Jesus(p) taught pure monotheism. "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the Only True God, and Jesus Christ, your apostle"(John 17:3).
If Jesus(p) was a god or implied that he was, where is the unequivocal verse of Jesus(p) saying, "I am God" or "Worship me"?
@JabrilAbdullah Funny you quote from John 17:3 as a proof text that Jesus never claimed to be Deity, what does Jesus state in John 17:5 just 2 verses later?
@agnostaxian That's unnecessary. If his mother name him "Jesus" and he's from "Nazareth", then it naturally follows he's "Jesus of Nazareth". And that's how everybody saw him. Now, if you say, "no he's actually God". Then you have to prove that he is.
Because no one saw him as such. He was born as man, had calls of nature like a man, hungered like a man, and thirst like a man. So, he was seen as a man. Man is a created being and creation is the EXACT opposite of The Creator.
@JabrilAbdullah lol, that is exactly my point, you deduced from implied statements that Jesus is Jesus of nazareth. He never makes a direct statement. also, show me one passage where he directly states, "I am a prophet". He never does say it directly, he implies it through words and deeds. This is the same for his deity.
You can either accept it or reject it but to say "He is only a man" is not an option
@agnostaxian He did make direct statements, but regardless, he was born as a man. People saw him as a man. And as we know God is not a man. He said that he was an "apostle". He said he his the "servant" of God. If he was God, then he MUST say, "I am God". All throughout the OT, God is constantly saying, "I am the Lord", "I am God". If God came as a man, then he MUST say, "I am God", otherwise people will accept him as ONLY a man, because that's ALL they see.
@JabrilAbdullah show me direct statement where Jesus says any of those things "I am a prophet" "I am a servant of God" "I am an apostle of God" or even "I am a man", give me one verse where Jesus says those things directly, just one
@agnostaxian lol I just did. Jn 17:3. But, that still doesn't prove that he's God. I don't need him to say "I am a man". I know a man when I see one. However, if he is supposedly a god, then he must AT LEAST say, "I am a god", before I can even begin to seriously refute him.
By your logic, at the bare minimum you would have no proof that he's a god or a man, besides the proof that he's a man. lol
@JabrilAbdullah in John 17:3 Jesus does not say directly "I am an apostle", show me a verse where he states that directly. I am using your logic to show how you are using a double standard when it comes to claims about Jesus that you like and those you dont like. show me a verse where he states "I am a prophet", just one.
again, what does Jesus say about himself in John 17:5, u keep dodging that, where was he before the creation of the world? answer the question
@agnostaxian lol. Yes he did. He said "Now, this is life eternal: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, YOUR APOSTLE"(Jn 17:3). I'm not using a double standard. The man said he was an apostle, God isn't an apostle to anybody. But, I even said that if we were to use your logic, then at the bare minimum we would have no proof of him being a god or a man, besides the fact that he did what every man did. And I answered you already.
@JabrilAbdullah You think Jesus implies that he is an apostle, that is my argument from John 8:58 about his deity. Does Jesus say in the passage "I am an apostle" directly? does he use those exact words? yes or no. what if he was talking about some other Jesus Christ? I am using your absurd "logic" to show u ur double standard.
@agnostaxian He said "Jesus Christ, your apostle". That's direct.
But, as I said, if we continue down this path, at the bare minimum, there would be no proof that he's a god or a man, besides the fact that there was a precedent set for him being a man.
@JabrilAbdullah "before abraham was born, i am" is direct also, you just dont want to accept that implication. actually the argument is so strong that many muslim scholars just deny that Jesus said that because even they can see the implications of the statement how it implies deity for Jesus.
Your interpretation that Jesus only meant he was a prophet in the mind of God before abraham was born is laughably shoehorned. what Jesus means there is clear, He is the God that spoke to Moses in the bush
@agnostaxian No it's not. What you're saying is he said "before Abraham was, Yahweh". That doesn't make sense, unless he said "I am Yahweh", but then again that would mean he actually said "Yahweh Yahweh". The whole term "Yahweh" is debatable in itself. The quote is ambiguous and would directly contradict Jesus(p) saying "why do you call me good? The is NONE good, but one, that is God".
@JabrilAbdullah You are the pone who quoted John 17:3 to me, I am just asking you what Jesus states 2 verses later, now quote it to me. or do you just cherry pick verses you like out of context to support your position and really dont know what the Bible states
@agnostaxian And you're the one asking me to quote Jn 17:5. My reason for quoting Jn 17:3 was to show you that Jesus(p) testified to his inferiority to God. If you are insinuating otherwise, then you must quote it and explain why. If you feel I quoted out of context, then state the context and we'll see if it holds up. Also, considering all the 'cherry picking' christians do to the ancient manuscripts to compile their bibles, you should be the last one to charge me with that.
@JabrilAbdullah answer the question please, what does Jesus state in John 17:5? where was he before the creation of the world? where? stop dodging and answer the question
@agnostaxian Lol. It's irrelevant to the discussion, unless you can prove not. He was in the knowledge of God, like everybody else, before the creation of the world. "The forces visible came from the force invisible."
@JabrilAbdullah so you were with God before the creation of the world? so you think Jesus just means that he was with God in his mind like all of us? where does Jesus say that in the passage? Jesus says "before abraham was born, I am". If Jesus just meant he was with God in his mind like all of us, was abraham not in God's mind before creation? It seems you are the one masturbating, making stuff up that is not in the passage.
@agnostaxian Of course I was. Where else would I be? lol
He was showing them scope of the situation. That God had already ordained him to be a prophet, and for him to be the only way to God at that time. Like when God said to Jeremiah that before he formed him in the womb, He ordained him to be a prophet.
If you mean to say Jesus(p) meant he was god, then you must show a verse where he, unequivocally, said "I am God".
@JabrilAbdullah So was abraham not in God's mind before the creation of the world since Jesus contrasts himself with abraham saying that "before abraham was born, I am"? where was abraham, did God forget about abraham before the world began?
also, where does Jesus state, "I was with you before the world began only in your mind"? I want a direct statement.
Your interpretation is desperate to say the least, reaching for anything but what it implies
@agnostaxian Like I said, he was showing the scope of the situation. Before Abraham(p) was born, Jesus(p) was already ordained to be a prophet to them. And no matter how much they bring up Abraham(p), they would have to deal with that truth.
Like I said, at the bare minimum you would have no proof of him being a god or a man with that logic. I want a direct statement of Jesus(p) saying "I existed with God, as God, before the world was". If anyone is desperate here, it's you.
@JabrilAbdullah no, you are desperate my muslim brother and reaching for any interpretation that will fit what you want to believe now. OK, so was Abraham ordained a prophet in the mind of God before the foundation of the world?
@JabrilAbdullah there were people that believed Jesus was not a man, they were called docetists. They believed that Jesus was pure spirit since flesh/matter was evil. so to say "We should just assume he was a man" is not right either. many atheists even do not think Jesus even existed, so you must even prove that. there is no default position.
@agnostaxian There was no precedent for that, though. People could rely on the precedent of having prophets who were men and slaves of God, just like them, to judge men. There was no precedent for pure spirits or God being man.
God can't be seen at anytime; no man can see God and live.
So, considering that there was no precedent set, then God becoming a man is unprecedented and if it happened he must absolutely, unequivocally, and unambiguously claim it.
@JabrilAbdullah John 8:58 is an unequivocal statement and is directly implied just like John 17:3 implies that Jesus is an apostle (sent one) by God but you like the 2nd conclusion but not the first. Jesus is using the divine name "I Am" that God told moses to tell the Israelites his name was in Exodus 3:14 and the Jews knew exactly what he was claiming, that is why they wanted to stone him. Now, you can accept Jesus claim or reject it but to paint him as only a prophet is not an option
@agnostaxian No it's not. Saying, "I am God" is an unequivocal statement of claiming divinity, not "I am" which could mean anything. However, "your apostle" is an unequivocal statement of claiming to be an apostle. Interpreting the 'first' conclusion in LIGHT of the '2nd' makes more sense, since the '2nd' one is ambiguous. If Jesus used the 'Yahweh' name, the Jews wouldn't know what that meant, since they haven't heard it because of their traditions. The name is also debatable
@JabrilAbdullah "I Am" is the divine named used by Yahweh in Exodus 3:14. It is unequivocal. Jesus is claiming deity, the jews understood it, as did the earliest apostles who worshiped and prayed to Jesus.
@agnostaxian "Yahweh" is the name of a pagan Canaanite deity. Which the Jews adopted when they settled in the land of Canaan. It's not unequivocal. Saying "I am who I am" isn't revealing a 'name'. Unless you say the "who I am" is the actual name. lol
Regardless, there isn't a verse where Jesus(p) unequivocally said "I am God".
@JabrilAbdullah but again, was abraham an ordained prophet before the foundation of the world in the mind of God like Jeremiah and the rest of the prophets?
@JabrilAbdullah I wish it was not but it is. all muslims pray to a rock, sad. God does not care what direction you pray or if you have washed your hands and feet for quibla, all that matters is the state of your heart.
@JabrilAbdullah No, God has many divine names. One is Yahweh, the other is "I am" or the self-existent one. This is what Jesus claims in John 8:58. It is a strange statement but it is clear what is meant. He is eternal (something only God is), and was the one who talked to Moses in the burning bush. That is why they wanted to kill him. They knew.
You can do all the exegetical gymnastics u want but what it states is what it states
@JabrilAbdullah John 8:58 "Before abraham was born, I am". The Jews wanted to stone him for this. They knew exactly what he was claiming. Jesus there claims to exist before abraham and be eternal. Jesus is contrasting himself with abraham. Abraham had a beginning, Jesus did not. There is only one eternal being- God. either Jesus was Deity with the Father or he is a liar and insane. You can either accept his claim or die on your sins (John 8:24), he says that not me
@agnostaxian The Jews wanted to stone him simply because they didn't like him. They did this to many of their prophets before Jesus(p). Anytime a prophet came to guide the Jews away from the dictates of their rabbis, they disliked him. Jesus(p) said that the Father is the "Only True God", so no, there's no such thing as 'existing as deity with the Father'. Jesus(p) also said "There's is NONE good, but one, that is God". Where did he say "I am God"?
@JabrilAbdullah where does Jesus state "I am a prophet" directly. also what does Jesus state in John 17:5 or do you not know your Bible except verses that you like out of context?
@JabrilAbdullah That is hillarious also that you want me to give u a verse where Jesus states, "I am God" or "Worship me". Please give me one verse in the New Testament where Jesus states "I am a prophet" or "I am the messiah" or even "I am Jesus"! lol. All these things are implied by what he says and does as is his Deity
@agnostaxian "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, your apostle." In that one sentence he claim that he's Jesus(p), a prophet, and the Christ/Messiah.
Also, God being a man is/was NEVER implied by the Jews. It's not up to me to prove he was a man. He was born as a man, walked as a man, talked liked a man, and slept like a man; that means he must be a man. Now, if you say, "no he's more than that", then the burden of proof is on you.
@JabrilAbdullah No, the burden of proof is on you. On every level the Koran is wrong. The earliest followers of Jesus taught he was God's son, they worshiped Jesus, they prayed to Jesus, they claimed that Jesus was the Creator and sustained the universe, they taught he died for our sins on the cross and rose again the 3rd day. They taught that we should love our enemies and that God loves us unconditionally and has forgiven us our sins by grace. Jesus is right, muhammad wrong, repent
@JabrilAbdullah who are we to believe? dozens of followers of Jesus living 1-2 generations after his ministry or a "prophet" living 600 years after Jesus?
Jesus did not flee from his enemies in Jerusalem like Muhammad did in Mecca. Jesus died for the sins of his enemies, allowing them to take him and tried to convert them through peace and love. Muhammad fled raised up an army and conquered his enemies. What path will u follow? love or conquest?
@agnostaxian The Jews can ask you the same question. Should they believe that God is ONE, or should they believe some Catholics that say God is three.
Regardless of the time that Nabi Muhammad(s.a.w) came, everything he said was from God, and God is the Truth
Jesus(p) didn't die for anyone and wasn't in any position to "raise up an army". There wasn't enough Jews who believed him to fight against the most powerful empire at that time.
@JabrilAbdullah God has 99 names in Islam. God is one and 3. In the Old Testament God created the Word through his Word/Wisdom and Spirit. This is what the earliest Christians said about Jesus. That he was God's Word (The Koran calls him this also) and agent in creation.
Jesus could have called legions of angels to fight the Romans but he taught us to love our enemies and pray for them, turn the other cheek.
bottom line- Muhammad fought people in his sinful flesh. Jesus fought evil with love
@JabrilAbdullah bottom line is that Jesus did claim to be the divine Son of God and Son of man from Daniel 7 that would be at God's right hand and be worshiped by the world. Also his earliest followers did claim that he died for our sins on the cross refuting the Koran. Have you studied early Christianity at all except for the verses that you like to cherry pick out of context because they fit your theological agenda?
@JabrilAbdullah Don't even waste your time arguing with Christians/Catholics. Their idea of God is corrupt. Where does God ever say that he is 3? It's not mentioned anywhere in the text. I'm Jewish and the scriptures say that God is one, constantly. The entire concept of the trinity didn't even exist during primitive Christianity, it was made up by Constantine. The Jews and the Muslims have the same understanding of God. God is one, infinite above time and space, can't be born or die, etc.
@agnostaxian wrong we only understand the little he has told us about him its also known in islam that what ever u think to look like hes not that also we dont say we know god like we know ourself but god knows us better than our selves ur really stupid and havnt studied islam if u want to really understand it study at madina university or some islamic school for a few years then talk otherwise shut ur mouth u dont know islam with ur little piss brain
@iloveafg123 Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, Koran denies this, therefore the Koran is wrong Jesus is right. Also, Jesus teaches to love your enemies, Muhammad taught to kill them and attack them. Jesus died for the sins of those who attacked him and persecuted him, Muhammad conquered his enemies through military. Repent and reject hatred and embrace Christ who is the only true revelation of God's love and the only way you can get forgiveness, i say this out of love muslim brother
@TheMrpalid Well, not for nothing but the trinitarian nature of the ONE God was not revealed until Jesus revealed it-so what if Abraham and Moses did not teach it?
Since Moslems do not accept the NT insofar as it contradicts the Koran, you have no basis to say what Jesus taught and did not.
Can anyone forgive sins but God? Tell me what the Koran teaches.
A dude from my uni accepted islam last week, he said that he had accepted that islam is the truth 2 months ago after researching for a year. But he said that he did not want to accept it because of the five daily prayers etc but then he said the truth is the truth so he took his shahadah and accepted islam ALHUMDULILLAH
Sound doctrine is required to understand God's word-Titus 2:1////You cannot find sound doctrine in Islam.///It takes more than just human reasoning and understanding to understand Almighty God.
I thought Jehovah and Allah are the same God. Am I incorrect? My husband and I worship in a Christian church. I felt called by God to cover my hair. I found your website while looking for information on covering ones hair for God. I enjoyed your show very much and will look for more of your videos. Blessings to you.
@deborahsue1 , if jehova is= to the one true GOD. the GOD of abraham, then yes they r the same. however since the traditions and the books of the prophets b4 prophet muhammad (pbuh) were all corrupted then u may have diffuculty serving God in truth, if you r looking for the answers in the wrong places. i encourage u to seek all u can and pray & ask GOD to guide u to the truth, make u recognize it when u find it, and then ultimately have the courage to live it, may ALLAH make it so. amin.
@deborahsue1 They are the same. Allah is simply the name of the True God in the Arabic language. May Allah reward you for your coming closer to the truth in your understanding of Him.
This happens in my country too, some parts of the muslim community also thinks that the name Allah shouldn't be used in the bible for fear of misleading muslims. But it doesn't make sense to me. The hebrew word for god is Allah, and they've been using it more than 2000 years. Muslims should learn Islam very well and also to learn other religions and culture. Only then we can explain Islam to others.
some christians agree with islam , but don't convert because they don't want to abide by the five daily prayers..no swine..no alcohol..ect. "islam is to strict!" that's what i have heard numerous tymes.
@thebabycakes71 some Christians agree with Islam? and they're Christians ? :D :D Who are they? Who are Christians? People who do not live as a Christian u call them Christians? u call Catholics that they are Christians ,u call Protestants that they are Christians , u call Anglicans that they are Christians. No my friend , verity is in orthodox Christianity and who don't live as a Christian aren't Christians .
to all the christian out there we just want you to worship allah god who creat you because if you die and you are not worshiping the true god you will got to hell and we do not want you to go to hell look if you become muslim or not you are not going to give us any thing but the reward is from allah
Make sense, they think Allah is one in a trinity. The father, son and holy spirit. However the Holy spirit refers to Allah's own spirit, not angel Jibraeel, Jesus was elected to be the son of God, however ppl say also that he is actually God so idk abt that and Allah is somewhat of a father to all of us, but when Jesus (pbuh) spoke of it he said THE father, not HIS father.
T.D. Jakes can Explain it! I Remember it was, Our Salvation Comes From God, Goes to God, and Is For God! and the concept wasn't even 'trinity'.. Restore the Tarbenacle I think.. Butt Nahh, Go dig a hole for yaself!
You're interpretating the Bible by using a book which invented 600 years in the Arabland, after the life of Jesus, who was a Jew? This is my faith, my God, my Lord! Arrogant? Yesss!
@suavelyphe "it contains errors and we muslim worship the creator we worship the same GOD!"
Do the Jewish people worship Jesus? It depends on what his or her religion is. Some Jews are Christians, also the Arabs. Only the red letters? The original Bible was not even written on papers.
The bible was put canonized AFTER JESUS LEFT? So? Matthew, John, Peter, actually did meet Jesus. Did Muhammad meet Jesus? No. He was not even a Jew. So, what does "There is no god but Allah" mean? Nothing.
@suavelyphe "where Jesus says he is god or worship me"
Hahaha, that's my Lord Jesus, He didn't glorify Himself, but His Father glorified Him because Jesus was obedient to His Father, until He died on the cross, to redeem men's sin, my sin and yours too...
@Pua8 Tell me then which argument that was weak, don't just make a rubbish claim. Defend what you believe to be the truth! The link you gave is not even correct. Try harder!
@Pua8 Ahh, not only Islam, I also don't know much about Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, etc. The 'brutal' interpretation of the Bible by some muslims that bothers me, like in this video.
@Pua8 That's the point I was trying to make. If you were an atheist I would understand that. But since you're a muslim, that's funny. Try to convince me, make the reasonable argument, that Muhammad ever rode a flying horse.
e.g:
- A woman got pregnant, that's resonable
- A man got pregnant, that's against reason
- A virgin got pregnant, that's beyond reason (e.g: Isa bin Maryam)
The Trinity is beyond men's reason, not against. What you need is faith.
You're just making a circular reasoning. You don't (or cannot) even make any reasonable argument here. Beyond logic? THAT'S RIGHT!!! God is beyond logic, but NOT against logic. The Trinity is beyond logic.
- Can a dog understand human's nature? NO. Because human's nature is beyond dog's logic.
- Can a man understand god's nature? NO. Because god's nature is beyond man's logic.
He tells me to believe in His only Son, Jesus Christ, and to obey the Holy Spirit.
By the way, I am a person of the Christian minority who live in a muslims' country. I know the reasonings the muslims have always been using against Christianity, circular reasoning...
- From the Bible I know, God loves me first even when I was still living against His will...
@Pua8 So in short, the Bible and the Quran are different. Yes, that's right. If you want to understand the Bibile, read the Bible, use any referents from the Bible itself. Not from your Arabic book. You're using circular reasoning again and again.
- In the Bible, Abraham was an idolater before God called him out from his city of Ur Kasdim, and became the Father of the Faithful. And Paul of Tarsus was a Pharisee, a scholar of Torah, before he became a Christian.
@Pua8 that is the greatest difference between bible and Qur'an.
the bible presents the Prophets as criminals,see biblical david comitting incest ,murder etc.. and Qur'anic Dawud pbuh was a noble warrior and firm believer in God whom was given strength and unique and wonderful voice upon which the rivers of paradise would stop to flow when he pbuh recited from Sabur , and he pbuh was able to talk with animals
even more noble of a king was his son Sulaiman(solomon ) pbuh.
@doyanrujak Of course we can't understand the whole concept of God. But why would God give us a way to salvation through something a man can't understand like trinity? It would be like making your dog understand internet to gets its treat, but you don't, your just say "sit" or something like that and then give it the treat.
@Nokarius You just added unrelated thing in the human-dog analogy. Trinity is the nature of God himself, like the anatomy of a human. Trinity is not something that exists outside God. A dog cannot understand the anatomy of a human but they know the human is its master. Because the internet is a tool that exists outside the anatomy of a human, so it does not represent anything in the reality of relation between God and humans.
Salaam Alaikum!!!Indeed the Noble Quran is the most simplistic gesture of practical righteous livelihood..Straightforward and simple..There are so many inept, in flesh that tries to innovate the word of Allah and they thrive on the weak minded!!! This was an enlightening straightforward discussion..Simple mathematics..3 will never equal 1 and 1 will never equal 3.This was peace mashaallah....Masalaam
I appreciate how Kamal El Mekki says he doesn't want to offend anyone and is just trying to deal with the issues at hand. But I have to say that unfortunately his presentation contains many errors and misunderstandings.
I'll perhaps point out some of the other errors later, but here's just one that is easy to document. The citation that he says is from Genesis is actually from the Gospel of John. And that does change things a little in the context of the argument that he is making.
Being and person are two different things; you make the distinction every day of life. You are a person residing in the Being of Humans. Very simple. The word trinity merely is an adjective to describe the very obvious idea and doctrine of three persons and One being in the Bible. It is clearly... CLEARLY outlined.
by saying that i am a person residing in the "Being of Humans" means nothing, because my person is a being, so im sorry but i dont really get your point.
Isaiah 55:11 God says, "...my word...that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."
John writes that Jesus is that Word (John 1:1 - 1:14)
God spoke creation into being (Genesis 1:3, Psalm 33:6)
Hence everything was created through the word, Jesus Christ (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16)
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature (Hebrews 1:3)
Jesus said, "...for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father." - John 16:27-28
And what exactly are you doing then, but making your own interpretation? The big differences between your interpretation and the disciples of Jesus are:
1.You have your religion influencing how you interpret things.
2.The disciple actually knew Jesus.
3.They had the Holy Spirit that lead them into all truth (John 16:13).
All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
But Jesus remained silent. And the high priest said to him, I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said to him, You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest tore his robes and said, He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy.
Many of the reasons stated in this video on why the trinity is wrong is exactly why islam, Jehovah Witness and various other religions have been created, Man doesn't understand something so they get rid of it for something they can understand. We can only go on what the Bible says. The Bible hints at the Trinity. It's about faith. I can accept that I don't know everything about the nature of God. At the end of the Day Jesus is the way. There's a reason why He is both the most loved/hated of all
erfbgu 3 months ago
you dont make sense
11luvable 3 months ago
@erfbgu I make plenty of sense. Its evident in the Quran that Muhammed had a problem with the trinity just as the Jehovah Witnesses do. Jesus already came and died for man's sins then Muhammed comes 400 yrs later with a new revelation? Jesus said He is the Way, Truth and Life NOONE goes to the Father except through Him. Not Muhammed. Islam is works friend but you probably know this and have no problem with it. But the bible says our works are like a filthy rag. You can't work your way to Heaven.
erfbgu 3 months ago
Kemel El Mekki needs to read the Bible and not simply spout Muslim rhetoric. Jesus was clear about being Divine and accepted worship from people. If Jesus is a good prophet then he must have acted right. If he acted right, Jesus is not simply a prophet but Divine. For all the words on the need for clarity, both these guys are extremely dull and uninformed.
miller8084 4 months ago
BTW. Jesus accepted worship from others: He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him (John 9:38); And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted (Matthew 28:17). So, is Jesus a prophet who lies or is Jesus Divine? Muslims, can't have it both ways ...
miller8084 4 months ago
["Red Letters"] Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.
You said that Jesus never said He was Divine? Is Jesus trustworthy or a liar? You can't have it both ways.
miller8084 4 months ago
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I believe there is one egg - there are three parts that make up that egg. The yoke, the white and the encasement which makes them all one egg, which is called the shell (God). Comprehend? ONE GOD YAWEH consisting of three equal entities. If one part is missing it is not an egg (G0d) .
11mynetbiz 4 months ago
I believe there is one egg - there are three parts that make up that egg. The yoke, the white and thee encasement which makes them all one egg, which is called the shell (God). Comprehend? ONE GOD YAWH consisting of three equal entities. If one part is missing it is not an egg (G0d) .
11mynetbiz 4 months ago
Anyone claiming that youngs double slit experiment somehow proves the trinity is simply desperate. The premise for refuting the trinity is not based on whether or not God is capable of being three in one because the idea of an omnipotent God means that it is feasible. The argument against the trinity is based on the flawed logic that God would need to do this and also based on the fact that the Bible itself contradicts such a notion.
Dvsblue 4 months ago
@Min90Ra muslims r not stupid. never said they were. Jesus was sent to Jews first during his ministry but later sent his disciples to the whole world- Matthew 28:19. We accept that God's eternal Word was dwelling in Jesus like you accept that God's eternal word is in the Quran. Is the Quran eternal like God? Most muslims theologians say yes. So even in Islam you have both God and His Word are eternal. So do you have two eternal things? no because God and His word are one together connected
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@Min90Ra aliens r interesting my muslim bro but to speculate about the theological implications is a little silly since we do not know the nature of the things.
look at the stories of Islam and Christianity- Both Jesus and Muhammad are mistreated by their people. Muhammad flees and gains justice by conquering his enemies in Mecca and the Quraish. Jesus does not flee, let's his enemies crucify him and he dies for them and rises again. Muhammad=justice. Jesus=Love. who do u follow?
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@Min90Ra that is my point muslim bro, talking about aliens is very speculative. what if they are like transformers/machines and dont need salvation. what if they are more angelic/spiritual than physical? who knows
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@Min90Ra what? how would the existence of aliens prove christianity wrong? also, what would these aliens be like? there is so much speculation in that but jesus did claim to be god's unique son, so either he was or he was wrong, a false teacher or insane. all his apostles taught it as well
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@Min90Ra r u an atheist troll posing as a muslim? aliens? i dont know, my best guess- probably but if their are aliens, i think they are not limited to our space/time dimension but i digress. "begotten" and "unique" are the same thing. the greek word used in King James bible as "begotten" is "monogenes" which means "one of a kind" "unique. Christian theologians have never thought Jesus was literally the son of God made through physical sex
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@Min90Ra jesus did teach that he was god's unique son, that is why jewish leaders wanted him killed. his closest apostles also taught this and that his death was for forgiveness of sins.
let me ask u muslim brother, who would know the teaching of prophet muhammad better, the companions like uthman, aisha, abu bakr and ali or a prophet centuries later like bahahullah of bahai faith?
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@Min90Ra our god (yours to) is full of love and did not destroy muhammad but gave him free will just like all of us. If God were to destroy all evil doers, he would have to destroy all of us because we all have gone astray.
Like i said, muhammad is not pure evil like hitler or satan and islam teaches good things but there are also things that are incomplete. Islam is like Judaism, many good laws but not a way for forgiveness. Only in Jesus did God reveal His full unconditional love gospel
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@Min90Ra i dont know why god allowed muhammad to exist, god is beyond us in many ways. why did god allow satan or hitler to exist? i dont know, free will is my best guess.
also i did not say muhammad was evil or crazy, he was just wrong about many things
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@Min90Ra the evidence for the death of jesus is overwhelming. bart ehrman (the darling of muslims) states that it is the one historical fact we can know about Jesus for certain. It is funny that this is one of the Things the Koran denies (Surah 4). so here is a question for you. if god spoke directly to muhammad, how would god get it sooo wrong about one of his greatest prophets?
agnostaxian 5 months ago
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youneekk 6 months ago
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LifePasserBy 7 months ago
when muslims say they need to be able to understand God they show they are only worshipping a god that can fit in their finite minds and not the true God as he is in reality. If God exists, He will not fit into our piss ant brains
agnostaxian 7 months ago
@agnostaxian If He can not fit in our brains/mentality, then He SURELY can not fit into our bodies. Thus, the idea of GOD becoming a man is ludicrous.
Secondly, the whole point of mankind being created is to worship GOD. So, man need to be able to understand the basic concept of GOD to do this. Thus, ALLAH(s.w.t) says in Al-Qur'an:
"Say, "He is Allah , the one and only one, Allah the eternal refuge, He neither begets nor was he born, Nor is there anything like Him"(Qur'an-112)
JabrilAbdullah 7 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah Jesus had both a divine nature and human nature so God did not fit in Jesus' body. Both Christians and Muslims believe God is omnipresent correct? Jesus as a human was in one place at one time but Jesus as God was present everywhere- two natures- one person. This is a mystery but that is why i say if your God is totally "logical" then he is a creation of your limited mind and not the true infinite God that should baffle us
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@agnostaxian Saying he have a divine nature and undivine nature is akin to saying he was a square-circle, or a married-bachelor. It's a logical fallacy. Yes, GOD is omnipresent, which is why an incarnation is uncalled for. Also, "God is not the author of confusion". So, if being illogical is a mystery/confusion, then GOD is not the author of it. Thus, the incarnation, deity of Christ(a.s), and trinity goes out the window. GOD doesn't want you confused or 'baffled' when worshiping him correctly.
JabrilAbdullah 5 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah Do you understand how God can be infinite/omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent?? explain that to me logically. God is not the author of confusion is a quote Paul was making about how a worship service should be run to the Corinthians. Physicists have demonstrated how electrons are both a particle and a wave. Explain that. Also, how electrons can be in multiple places at one time. Explain that. If your God does not baffle you, then he is a creation of your mind and not the real God
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@agnostaxian Simply put, GOD is infinite in His wisdom. That is logically &philosophically sound. I have no contest with the quote "God is not the author of confusion". Because it's true. If the whole reason why man was created was to worship GOD, then we have to have some sense of what we're worshiping. That's why GOD said "The Lord is ONE". Not 3 in 1 or 1 in 3. Also, I think you need to revisit quantum physics lol. GOD lays out His commands in clarity. Worship the ONE God. No confusion there
JabrilAbdullah 5 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah No I asked you to explain how God is infinite. You just stated that he was. and with quantum mechanics, you should revisit it. How can an electron be both a particle and wave, how? How can an electron be in more than one place at a time? This stuff baffles physicists, how much more the God who created Physical reality?
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@agnostaxian Well, philosophically, GOD is not finite. He has to be immaterial and indivisible. For a better understanding you'll have to go to the revelations sent down from GOD. Again, you need to study the Wave-Particle duality and the Double-slit experiment. These phenomenons aren't exactly what you're claiming. Regardless, a wave and a particle aren't opposites of each other. Divine and undivine are EXACT opposites of each other. Thus, logically can't be true.
JabrilAbdullah 5 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah yes, i agree that God is not finite but what is infinity like? how is something infinite? explain that. No a wave and a particle are totally different functions how how a thing could work. How can something be spread out over a "wave" of an area yet be in one place at a time. This is exactly what the double slit experiment shows my muslim bro. electrons are in multiple positions at the same time?
also, Xian theologians do not think Jesus's divine nature is human or vice versa
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@agnostaxian Do you need a dictionary? Infinite is infinite. As I said, regardless, a wave and a particle aren't opposites of each other. Divine and un-divine are EXACT opposites of each other. You can't have a All-Knowing being who is also ignorant. It's a logical fallacy.
I know christian theologians think Jesus(p) was fully divine and fully human, but that doesn't make sense. Nor is it biblicaly sound, since the bible is against God being a man/mortal.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah yes, a wave and particle are opposites in physics, study the double slit experiment. jesus humanity and divinity are distinct. but here is the thing, jesus did claim divinity (John 8:58), either u accept it or he is insane. The Koran is wrong so many times. The New Testament was written within 1 generation of Jesus by many early disciples, the Koran 600 years later by 1 guy. One fact we know about Jesus is that He was crucified, the Koran gets this wrong (surah 4:157).
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian Not necessarily. And it still doesn't explain anything, because the quantum matter switch from behaving like a wave to a particle and vice verse. And no he didn't. The blind man said "I am", yet christians don't take him as a god. Show me one verse of Jesus(p) saying, "I am God". The Qur'an isn't wrong about anything and it doesn't matter when it was revealed, because it's from GOD. And Jesus(p) wasn't crucified, even with evidences from the bible.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah cont..But if u need a God that is perfectly logical and understandable to your finite mind then u are just worshiping an object of your imagination and an idol and not the true God as he is in reality.
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian No one can truly know GOD inside and out. Only the All-Knowing has that kind of knowledge. However, if humans were made to worship GOD, then we must not be confused in worship. That's why GOD said, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord your GOD, the Lord is ONE". Not three in one or one in three; just ONE.
All christian scholars agree that the trinity is mysterious and essential to salvation. But, GOD is not the author of confusion/mystery, so this idea is false.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah also, I would say the same thing about Jesus being both human and divine as u said about God's infinity. It is what is revealed. Jesus taught that he was God's unique Son, above all the prophets (Mark 12:1-12) and that what was speaking through him was the Eternal word that spoke to Moses (John 8:58). But Jesus was also a full human. The apostles of Jesus taught this as well. Either Jesus was lying or he was both divine and human. a good prophet is not an option
agnostaxian 5 months ago
@agnostaxian Jesus(p) taught pure monotheism. "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the Only True God, and Jesus Christ, your apostle"(John 17:3).
If Jesus(p) was a god or implied that he was, where is the unequivocal verse of Jesus(p) saying, "I am God" or "Worship me"?
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah Funny you quote from John 17:3 as a proof text that Jesus never claimed to be Deity, what does Jesus state in John 17:5 just 2 verses later?
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian It's not "I am God", that's for sure.
If Jesus(p) is God, then he must claim so.
Show me just one verse of Jesus(p) saying, "I am God" or "Worship me".
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah show me one verse where Jesus says "I am Jesus of nazareth"
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian That's unnecessary. If his mother name him "Jesus" and he's from "Nazareth", then it naturally follows he's "Jesus of Nazareth". And that's how everybody saw him. Now, if you say, "no he's actually God". Then you have to prove that he is.
Because no one saw him as such. He was born as man, had calls of nature like a man, hungered like a man, and thirst like a man. So, he was seen as a man. Man is a created being and creation is the EXACT opposite of The Creator.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah lol, that is exactly my point, you deduced from implied statements that Jesus is Jesus of nazareth. He never makes a direct statement. also, show me one passage where he directly states, "I am a prophet". He never does say it directly, he implies it through words and deeds. This is the same for his deity.
You can either accept it or reject it but to say "He is only a man" is not an option
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian He did make direct statements, but regardless, he was born as a man. People saw him as a man. And as we know God is not a man. He said that he was an "apostle". He said he his the "servant" of God. If he was God, then he MUST say, "I am God". All throughout the OT, God is constantly saying, "I am the Lord", "I am God". If God came as a man, then he MUST say, "I am God", otherwise people will accept him as ONLY a man, because that's ALL they see.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah show me direct statement where Jesus says any of those things "I am a prophet" "I am a servant of God" "I am an apostle of God" or even "I am a man", give me one verse where Jesus says those things directly, just one
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian lol I just did. Jn 17:3. But, that still doesn't prove that he's God. I don't need him to say "I am a man". I know a man when I see one. However, if he is supposedly a god, then he must AT LEAST say, "I am a god", before I can even begin to seriously refute him.
By your logic, at the bare minimum you would have no proof that he's a god or a man, besides the proof that he's a man. lol
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah in John 17:3 Jesus does not say directly "I am an apostle", show me a verse where he states that directly. I am using your logic to show how you are using a double standard when it comes to claims about Jesus that you like and those you dont like. show me a verse where he states "I am a prophet", just one.
again, what does Jesus say about himself in John 17:5, u keep dodging that, where was he before the creation of the world? answer the question
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian lol. Yes he did. He said "Now, this is life eternal: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, YOUR APOSTLE"(Jn 17:3). I'm not using a double standard. The man said he was an apostle, God isn't an apostle to anybody. But, I even said that if we were to use your logic, then at the bare minimum we would have no proof of him being a god or a man, besides the fact that he did what every man did. And I answered you already.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah You think Jesus implies that he is an apostle, that is my argument from John 8:58 about his deity. Does Jesus say in the passage "I am an apostle" directly? does he use those exact words? yes or no. what if he was talking about some other Jesus Christ? I am using your absurd "logic" to show u ur double standard.
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian He said "Jesus Christ, your apostle". That's direct.
But, as I said, if we continue down this path, at the bare minimum, there would be no proof that he's a god or a man, besides the fact that there was a precedent set for him being a man.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah "before abraham was born, i am" is direct also, you just dont want to accept that implication. actually the argument is so strong that many muslim scholars just deny that Jesus said that because even they can see the implications of the statement how it implies deity for Jesus.
Your interpretation that Jesus only meant he was a prophet in the mind of God before abraham was born is laughably shoehorned. what Jesus means there is clear, He is the God that spoke to Moses in the bush
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian No it's not. What you're saying is he said "before Abraham was, Yahweh". That doesn't make sense, unless he said "I am Yahweh", but then again that would mean he actually said "Yahweh Yahweh". The whole term "Yahweh" is debatable in itself. The quote is ambiguous and would directly contradict Jesus(p) saying "why do you call me good? The is NONE good, but one, that is God".
At the very least you have a contradiction here.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah But again what does Jesus say in John 17:5? quote it to me please
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian I'm sure you have a bible, you can look it up yourself.
The verse is irrelevant since it does not prove Jesus(p) is a god.
Show me a verse where Jesus(p) said, "I am God" or "Worship me".
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah You are the pone who quoted John 17:3 to me, I am just asking you what Jesus states 2 verses later, now quote it to me. or do you just cherry pick verses you like out of context to support your position and really dont know what the Bible states
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian And you're the one asking me to quote Jn 17:5. My reason for quoting Jn 17:3 was to show you that Jesus(p) testified to his inferiority to God. If you are insinuating otherwise, then you must quote it and explain why. If you feel I quoted out of context, then state the context and we'll see if it holds up. Also, considering all the 'cherry picking' christians do to the ancient manuscripts to compile their bibles, you should be the last one to charge me with that.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah answer the question please, what does Jesus state in John 17:5? where was he before the creation of the world? where? stop dodging and answer the question
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian Lol. It's irrelevant to the discussion, unless you can prove not. He was in the knowledge of God, like everybody else, before the creation of the world. "The forces visible came from the force invisible."
Stop mental masturbating and say what you mean.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah so you were with God before the creation of the world? so you think Jesus just means that he was with God in his mind like all of us? where does Jesus say that in the passage? Jesus says "before abraham was born, I am". If Jesus just meant he was with God in his mind like all of us, was abraham not in God's mind before creation? It seems you are the one masturbating, making stuff up that is not in the passage.
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian Of course I was. Where else would I be? lol
He was showing them scope of the situation. That God had already ordained him to be a prophet, and for him to be the only way to God at that time. Like when God said to Jeremiah that before he formed him in the womb, He ordained him to be a prophet.
If you mean to say Jesus(p) meant he was god, then you must show a verse where he, unequivocally, said "I am God".
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah So was abraham not in God's mind before the creation of the world since Jesus contrasts himself with abraham saying that "before abraham was born, I am"? where was abraham, did God forget about abraham before the world began?
also, where does Jesus state, "I was with you before the world began only in your mind"? I want a direct statement.
Your interpretation is desperate to say the least, reaching for anything but what it implies
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian Like I said, he was showing the scope of the situation. Before Abraham(p) was born, Jesus(p) was already ordained to be a prophet to them. And no matter how much they bring up Abraham(p), they would have to deal with that truth.
Like I said, at the bare minimum you would have no proof of him being a god or a man with that logic. I want a direct statement of Jesus(p) saying "I existed with God, as God, before the world was". If anyone is desperate here, it's you.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah no, you are desperate my muslim brother and reaching for any interpretation that will fit what you want to believe now. OK, so was Abraham ordained a prophet in the mind of God before the foundation of the world?
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah there were people that believed Jesus was not a man, they were called docetists. They believed that Jesus was pure spirit since flesh/matter was evil. so to say "We should just assume he was a man" is not right either. many atheists even do not think Jesus even existed, so you must even prove that. there is no default position.
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian There was no precedent for that, though. People could rely on the precedent of having prophets who were men and slaves of God, just like them, to judge men. There was no precedent for pure spirits or God being man.
God can't be seen at anytime; no man can see God and live.
So, considering that there was no precedent set, then God becoming a man is unprecedented and if it happened he must absolutely, unequivocally, and unambiguously claim it.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah John 8:58 is an unequivocal statement and is directly implied just like John 17:3 implies that Jesus is an apostle (sent one) by God but you like the 2nd conclusion but not the first. Jesus is using the divine name "I Am" that God told moses to tell the Israelites his name was in Exodus 3:14 and the Jews knew exactly what he was claiming, that is why they wanted to stone him. Now, you can accept Jesus claim or reject it but to paint him as only a prophet is not an option
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian No it's not. Saying, "I am God" is an unequivocal statement of claiming divinity, not "I am" which could mean anything. However, "your apostle" is an unequivocal statement of claiming to be an apostle. Interpreting the 'first' conclusion in LIGHT of the '2nd' makes more sense, since the '2nd' one is ambiguous. If Jesus used the 'Yahweh' name, the Jews wouldn't know what that meant, since they haven't heard it because of their traditions. The name is also debatable
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah "I Am" is the divine named used by Yahweh in Exodus 3:14. It is unequivocal. Jesus is claiming deity, the jews understood it, as did the earliest apostles who worshiped and prayed to Jesus.
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian "Yahweh" is the name of a pagan Canaanite deity. Which the Jews adopted when they settled in the land of Canaan. It's not unequivocal. Saying "I am who I am" isn't revealing a 'name'. Unless you say the "who I am" is the actual name. lol
Regardless, there isn't a verse where Jesus(p) unequivocally said "I am God".
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah but again, was abraham an ordained prophet before the foundation of the world in the mind of God like Jeremiah and the rest of the prophets?
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah lol, muslims pray to a meterorite in a black box that pagans thought came from the gods in outer space
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian lol You wish that was true.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah I wish it was not but it is. all muslims pray to a rock, sad. God does not care what direction you pray or if you have washed your hands and feet for quibla, all that matters is the state of your heart.
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah No, God has many divine names. One is Yahweh, the other is "I am" or the self-existent one. This is what Jesus claims in John 8:58. It is a strange statement but it is clear what is meant. He is eternal (something only God is), and was the one who talked to Moses in the burning bush. That is why they wanted to kill him. They knew.
You can do all the exegetical gymnastics u want but what it states is what it states
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah John 8:58 "Before abraham was born, I am". The Jews wanted to stone him for this. They knew exactly what he was claiming. Jesus there claims to exist before abraham and be eternal. Jesus is contrasting himself with abraham. Abraham had a beginning, Jesus did not. There is only one eternal being- God. either Jesus was Deity with the Father or he is a liar and insane. You can either accept his claim or die on your sins (John 8:24), he says that not me
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian The Jews wanted to stone him simply because they didn't like him. They did this to many of their prophets before Jesus(p). Anytime a prophet came to guide the Jews away from the dictates of their rabbis, they disliked him. Jesus(p) said that the Father is the "Only True God", so no, there's no such thing as 'existing as deity with the Father'. Jesus(p) also said "There's is NONE good, but one, that is God". Where did he say "I am God"?
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah where does Jesus state "I am a prophet" directly. also what does Jesus state in John 17:5 or do you not know your Bible except verses that you like out of context?
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah That is hillarious also that you want me to give u a verse where Jesus states, "I am God" or "Worship me". Please give me one verse in the New Testament where Jesus states "I am a prophet" or "I am the messiah" or even "I am Jesus"! lol. All these things are implied by what he says and does as is his Deity
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian "Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, your apostle." In that one sentence he claim that he's Jesus(p), a prophet, and the Christ/Messiah.
Also, God being a man is/was NEVER implied by the Jews. It's not up to me to prove he was a man. He was born as a man, walked as a man, talked liked a man, and slept like a man; that means he must be a man. Now, if you say, "no he's more than that", then the burden of proof is on you.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah No, the burden of proof is on you. On every level the Koran is wrong. The earliest followers of Jesus taught he was God's son, they worshiped Jesus, they prayed to Jesus, they claimed that Jesus was the Creator and sustained the universe, they taught he died for our sins on the cross and rose again the 3rd day. They taught that we should love our enemies and that God loves us unconditionally and has forgiven us our sins by grace. Jesus is right, muhammad wrong, repent
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah who are we to believe? dozens of followers of Jesus living 1-2 generations after his ministry or a "prophet" living 600 years after Jesus?
Jesus did not flee from his enemies in Jerusalem like Muhammad did in Mecca. Jesus died for the sins of his enemies, allowing them to take him and tried to convert them through peace and love. Muhammad fled raised up an army and conquered his enemies. What path will u follow? love or conquest?
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@agnostaxian The Jews can ask you the same question. Should they believe that God is ONE, or should they believe some Catholics that say God is three.
Regardless of the time that Nabi Muhammad(s.a.w) came, everything he said was from God, and God is the Truth
Jesus(p) didn't die for anyone and wasn't in any position to "raise up an army". There wasn't enough Jews who believed him to fight against the most powerful empire at that time.
Bottom line; Jesus(p) didn't claim divinity.
JabrilAbdullah 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah God has 99 names in Islam. God is one and 3. In the Old Testament God created the Word through his Word/Wisdom and Spirit. This is what the earliest Christians said about Jesus. That he was God's Word (The Koran calls him this also) and agent in creation.
Jesus could have called legions of angels to fight the Romans but he taught us to love our enemies and pray for them, turn the other cheek.
bottom line- Muhammad fought people in his sinful flesh. Jesus fought evil with love
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah bottom line is that Jesus did claim to be the divine Son of God and Son of man from Daniel 7 that would be at God's right hand and be worshiped by the world. Also his earliest followers did claim that he died for our sins on the cross refuting the Koran. Have you studied early Christianity at all except for the verses that you like to cherry pick out of context because they fit your theological agenda?
agnostaxian 2 months ago
@JabrilAbdullah Don't even waste your time arguing with Christians/Catholics. Their idea of God is corrupt. Where does God ever say that he is 3? It's not mentioned anywhere in the text. I'm Jewish and the scriptures say that God is one, constantly. The entire concept of the trinity didn't even exist during primitive Christianity, it was made up by Constantine. The Jews and the Muslims have the same understanding of God. God is one, infinite above time and space, can't be born or die, etc.
missile300 3 weeks ago
@agnostaxian wrong we only understand the little he has told us about him its also known in islam that what ever u think to look like hes not that also we dont say we know god like we know ourself but god knows us better than our selves ur really stupid and havnt studied islam if u want to really understand it study at madina university or some islamic school for a few years then talk otherwise shut ur mouth u dont know islam with ur little piss brain
iloveafg123 5 months ago
@iloveafg123 Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, Koran denies this, therefore the Koran is wrong Jesus is right. Also, Jesus teaches to love your enemies, Muhammad taught to kill them and attack them. Jesus died for the sins of those who attacked him and persecuted him, Muhammad conquered his enemies through military. Repent and reject hatred and embrace Christ who is the only true revelation of God's love and the only way you can get forgiveness, i say this out of love muslim brother
agnostaxian 5 months ago
Abraham taught of one. Moses taught of one. Jesus taught of one. Mohammad peace be upon him taught of one. Paul taught of three.
TheMrpalid 9 months ago 6
@TheMrpalid Paul taught God as One as well but let me ask u this- Is God's word eternal like God?
agnostaxian 5 months ago
so true brother.
11luvable 3 months ago
@TheMrpalid Well, not for nothing but the trinitarian nature of the ONE God was not revealed until Jesus revealed it-so what if Abraham and Moses did not teach it?
Since Moslems do not accept the NT insofar as it contradicts the Koran, you have no basis to say what Jesus taught and did not.
Can anyone forgive sins but God? Tell me what the Koran teaches.
RPenta 2 months ago
A dude from my uni accepted islam last week, he said that he had accepted that islam is the truth 2 months ago after researching for a year. But he said that he did not want to accept it because of the five daily prayers etc but then he said the truth is the truth so he took his shahadah and accepted islam ALHUMDULILLAH
kotlianz 9 months ago 3
This is an amazing explanation!
People open your eyes, and think about what you're worshiping, it's very clear I seriously wonder how people believe in the trinity!
missgaga555 9 months ago
It's hard to believe in a crucifixion when it's not the cruci-fact but the cruci-fiction
TheMrpalid 9 months ago
Sound doctrine is required to understand God's word-Titus 2:1////You cannot find sound doctrine in Islam.///It takes more than just human reasoning and understanding to understand Almighty God.
titus11234 11 months ago
I like this brother's logic.
rcstar07 1 year ago
I thought Jehovah and Allah are the same God. Am I incorrect? My husband and I worship in a Christian church. I felt called by God to cover my hair. I found your website while looking for information on covering ones hair for God. I enjoyed your show very much and will look for more of your videos. Blessings to you.
deborahsue1 1 year ago
@deborahsue1 , if jehova is= to the one true GOD. the GOD of abraham, then yes they r the same. however since the traditions and the books of the prophets b4 prophet muhammad (pbuh) were all corrupted then u may have diffuculty serving God in truth, if you r looking for the answers in the wrong places. i encourage u to seek all u can and pray & ask GOD to guide u to the truth, make u recognize it when u find it, and then ultimately have the courage to live it, may ALLAH make it so. amin.
MsUMMATI 1 year ago
@deborahsue1 They are the same. Allah is simply the name of the True God in the Arabic language. May Allah reward you for your coming closer to the truth in your understanding of Him.
ahmadj345 1 year ago
@ahmadj345
This happens in my country too, some parts of the muslim community also thinks that the name Allah shouldn't be used in the bible for fear of misleading muslims. But it doesn't make sense to me. The hebrew word for god is Allah, and they've been using it more than 2000 years. Muslims should learn Islam very well and also to learn other religions and culture. Only then we can explain Islam to others.
passingthru29771 1 year ago
Not all Christians believe in the trinity. Jehovah's Witnesses worship Jehovah.
deborahsue1 1 year ago
@deborahsue1 How about worshiping who claimed to be the originator of the heavens and the earth? Allah is the ONLY one to make this claim.
NoorminAllah 1 year ago
great explaination by Kamal
rcstar07 1 year ago
some christians agree with islam , but don't convert because they don't want to abide by the five daily prayers..no swine..no alcohol..ect. "islam is to strict!" that's what i have heard numerous tymes.
thebabycakes71 1 year ago
@thebabycakes71 some Christians agree with Islam? and they're Christians ? :D :D Who are they? Who are Christians? People who do not live as a Christian u call them Christians? u call Catholics that they are Christians ,u call Protestants that they are Christians , u call Anglicans that they are Christians. No my friend , verity is in orthodox Christianity and who don't live as a Christian aren't Christians .
didgori1 1 year ago
@didgori1 anyway man, live you're life and bee happy. that's all any of us can do. we will all meet god one day and thats all that matters.
thebabycakes71 1 year ago
@thebabycakes71 we will all be judged, but we won't all meet GOD. GOD (GLORY B HE) never claimed that we would.
MsUMMATI 1 year ago
@didgori1 you'll have to excuse me ...but i have no idea what ":D :D " means.
thebabycakes71 1 year ago
@thebabycakes71 nothing
didgori1 1 year ago
@didgori1 ok...very random....but, argh !!! whatever.
thebabycakes71 1 year ago
ALLAAH U AKBAAR THIS IS A GOOD REAL GOOD
SAIF70 1 year ago
May Allah give the power to Sh.Kamal's words to open non-muslims eyes and ears. Ameen!
Poor and miserable blind and deaf people.
inoora2010 1 year ago
to all the christian out there we just want you to worship allah god who creat you because if you die and you are not worshiping the true god you will got to hell and we do not want you to go to hell look if you become muslim or not you are not going to give us any thing but the reward is from allah
zarhoon 1 year ago
Make sense, they think Allah is one in a trinity. The father, son and holy spirit. However the Holy spirit refers to Allah's own spirit, not angel Jibraeel, Jesus was elected to be the son of God, however ppl say also that he is actually God so idk abt that and Allah is somewhat of a father to all of us, but when Jesus (pbuh) spoke of it he said THE father, not HIS father.
90seffectssuck 1 year ago
T.D. Jakes can Explain it! I Remember it was, Our Salvation Comes From God, Goes to God, and Is For God! and the concept wasn't even 'trinity'.. Restore the Tarbenacle I think.. Butt Nahh, Go dig a hole for yaself!
1991Roo 1 year ago
"Does the Trinity Make Any Sense?"
No. It's beyond any sense.
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
Ok it is beyond someones sense and someone made it up!
stop being arrogant.
suavelyphe 1 year ago
@suavelyphe "stop being arrogant."
- The Trinity is Christians' God, NOT Allah
- The Bible is Christians' Holy Book, NOT Quran
- Jesus of Nazareth is Christians' Lord, NOT Isa
You're interpretating the Bible by using a book which invented 600 years in the Arabland, after the life of Jesus, who was a Jew? This is my faith, my God, my Lord! Arrogant? Yesss!
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
Hello the bible does not say Jesus is God.
only read the red letters and the Jews use THE SAME BOOK!
do they worship Jesus NO!
do they pray the way we pray?
some of the YES!
and they whould NEVER copy us so islam is ancient religion
the original christians did believe Jesus was god and the bible was put canonized AFTER JESUS LEFT!
and it contains errors and we muslim worship the creator we worship the same GOD!
Allah means The One God in Arabic and arab christian use this.and othrs
suavelyphe 1 year ago
@suavelyphe "it contains errors and we muslim worship the creator we worship the same GOD!"
Do the Jewish people worship Jesus? It depends on what his or her religion is. Some Jews are Christians, also the Arabs. Only the red letters? The original Bible was not even written on papers.
The bible was put canonized AFTER JESUS LEFT? So? Matthew, John, Peter, actually did meet Jesus. Did Muhammad meet Jesus? No. He was not even a Jew. So, what does "There is no god but Allah" mean? Nothing.
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
see that is what I mean stop following MEN follow Jesus he did not say he was god!
and there is no where in the complete bible where Jesus says he is god or worship me and you telling me that are our interpetation bothers you.
stop arguing with and go back to your and seek truth with a clean heart!
suavelyphe 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@suavelyphe "where Jesus says he is god or worship me"
Hahaha, that's my Lord Jesus, He didn't glorify Himself, but His Father glorified Him because Jesus was obedient to His Father, until He died on the cross, to redeem men's sin, my sin and yours too...
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
your arguementation is weak because you seem to never have listened to the Qur'an:
watch#!v=wKQnVYyB2l0&playnext_from=TL&videos=55bN0DEFFbw
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8 Tell me then which argument that was weak, don't just make a rubbish claim. Defend what you believe to be the truth! The link you gave is not even correct. Try harder!
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
/watch?v=X2-ie5G9kxo
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8 Ahh, not only Islam, I also don't know much about Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, etc. The 'brutal' interpretation of the Bible by some muslims that bothers me, like in this video.
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
brutal? he only presented the trinity and it senselessnes.
you know it does not make sense and try to accept it still.
that is against the reason God granted you.
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8 That's the point I was trying to make. If you were an atheist I would understand that. But since you're a muslim, that's funny. Try to convince me, make the reasonable argument, that Muhammad ever rode a flying horse.
e.g:
- A woman got pregnant, that's resonable
- A man got pregnant, that's against reason
- A virgin got pregnant, that's beyond reason (e.g: Isa bin Maryam)
The Trinity is beyond men's reason, not against. What you need is faith.
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
--> a virgin got pregant, that is by God's Will, as He tells us.
--> God is three , is beyond logic, because God Himself tells Us He is the One and Only. .
Surah Al-Ikhlas(Sincerity) :
watch?v=53pDgn8JGbg
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8 "God is three"
You're just making a circular reasoning. You don't (or cannot) even make any reasonable argument here. Beyond logic? THAT'S RIGHT!!! God is beyond logic, but NOT against logic. The Trinity is beyond logic.
- Can a dog understand human's nature? NO. Because human's nature is beyond dog's logic.
- Can a man understand god's nature? NO. Because god's nature is beyond man's logic.
He tells me to believe in His only Son, Jesus Christ, and to obey the Holy Spirit.
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
there we go..
you have never read the QUr'an, you should do it.. really if you love God , then you would do it.
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8 Here you go again... circular reasoning.
By the way, I am a person of the Christian minority who live in a muslims' country. I know the reasonings the muslims have always been using against Christianity, circular reasoning...
- From the Bible I know, God loves me first even when I was still living against His will...
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
that is not true.
even in the bible God destorys the people who transgress beyond bounds.
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8 All believers in the Bible were sinners, only because God's love they came to and knew God, from Abraham to Paul...
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
watch your tongue.
you compare the dear friend of God , Ibrahim pbuh to a bounty hunter like paul?
the noble Prophet Ibrahim( Abraham) pbuh.. i love Him for the sake of God..
"Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to God, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in faith?
For God did take Abraham for a friend." An-Nisa 4:125
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8 So in short, the Bible and the Quran are different. Yes, that's right. If you want to understand the Bibile, read the Bible, use any referents from the Bible itself. Not from your Arabic book. You're using circular reasoning again and again.
- In the Bible, Abraham was an idolater before God called him out from his city of Ur Kasdim, and became the Father of the Faithful. And Paul of Tarsus was a Pharisee, a scholar of Torah, before he became a Christian.
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
you keep comparing God to His creation.
You see why the bible is false?
it keeps comparing the Allmighty with His creation.
Allah is unique ,
He is like none and none is like Him.
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8
And the QUr'an tells a whole different story of Ibrahim pbuh.
He was a noble slave of God who by himself found out that idol worship is false and that his Creator must be someone much greater in power.
you should really read the story of Ibrahim in Qur'an .
its great and short.
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8 that is the greatest difference between bible and Qur'an.
the bible presents the Prophets as criminals,see biblical david comitting incest ,murder etc.. and Qur'anic Dawud pbuh was a noble warrior and firm believer in God whom was given strength and unique and wonderful voice upon which the rivers of paradise would stop to flow when he pbuh recited from Sabur , and he pbuh was able to talk with animals
even more noble of a king was his son Sulaiman(solomon ) pbuh.
In the bible ...
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8
look into your message box..
Pua8 1 year ago
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doyanrujak 1 year ago
Comment removed
doyanrujak 1 year ago
@doyanrujak
read the message I posted you about the greatness of the Prophets of God, the TRUE greatness ;)
Pua8 1 year ago
@doyanrujak Of course we can't understand the whole concept of God. But why would God give us a way to salvation through something a man can't understand like trinity? It would be like making your dog understand internet to gets its treat, but you don't, your just say "sit" or something like that and then give it the treat.
Nokarius 1 year ago
@Nokarius You just added unrelated thing in the human-dog analogy. Trinity is the nature of God himself, like the anatomy of a human. Trinity is not something that exists outside God. A dog cannot understand the anatomy of a human but they know the human is its master. Because the internet is a tool that exists outside the anatomy of a human, so it does not represent anything in the reality of relation between God and humans.
doyanrujak 1 year ago
Barak allahu feek for this topic - The trinity Does NOT make sence!!
aminahmuminah 1 year ago
The Father (YHWH) beget a Son - Jesus (Yahshua).
SparklingVoices 1 year ago
christianity n trinity is full of nonsense
slayyyyn 1 year ago
No, it makes no sense ! It has to do with the development of Christianity from a Jewish sect into a new religion though in the centuries later on.
faruk715 1 year ago
Salaam Alaikum!!!Indeed the Noble Quran is the most simplistic gesture of practical righteous livelihood..Straightforward and simple..There are so many inept, in flesh that tries to innovate the word of Allah and they thrive on the weak minded!!! This was an enlightening straightforward discussion..Simple mathematics..3 will never equal 1 and 1 will never equal 3.This was peace mashaallah....Masalaam
luvwriting1 1 year ago
I appreciate how Kamal El Mekki says he doesn't want to offend anyone and is just trying to deal with the issues at hand. But I have to say that unfortunately his presentation contains many errors and misunderstandings.
I'll perhaps point out some of the other errors later, but here's just one that is easy to document. The citation that he says is from Genesis is actually from the Gospel of John. And that does change things a little in the context of the argument that he is making.
HaecceitasQuidditas 1 year ago
@HaecceitasQuidditas Well that doesn't change the fact that the trinity still makes no sence and it isn't what Jesus taught.
Abdullah1475 1 year ago
Being and person are two different things; you make the distinction every day of life. You are a person residing in the Being of Humans. Very simple. The word trinity merely is an adjective to describe the very obvious idea and doctrine of three persons and One being in the Bible. It is clearly... CLEARLY outlined.
thecosmichippo 1 year ago
by saying that i am a person residing in the "Being of Humans" means nothing, because my person is a being, so im sorry but i dont really get your point.
the father...a being
the son ....a being
the holy spirit...a being
3 beings......
its very CLEAR
tryingtobegood1 1 year ago
@tryingtobegood1
Is a light one, three, or three in one?
With in a light you have a source, the bulb. You have the ray the imprint. And you have the heat that is a result of the ray.
Muslims need to step back out of their box, and view the trinity without the misconception that the Quran places on it.
lchiddle 1 year ago
Isaiah 55:11 God says, "...my word...that goes out from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it."
John writes that Jesus is that Word (John 1:1 - 1:14)
God spoke creation into being (Genesis 1:3, Psalm 33:6)
Hence everything was created through the word, Jesus Christ (John 1:3, Colossians 1:16)
He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature (Hebrews 1:3)
lchiddle 1 year ago
Jesus said, "...for the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me and have believed that I came forth from the Father. I came forth from the Father and have come into the world; I am leaving the world again and going to the Father." - John 16:27-28
lchiddle 1 year ago
@lchiddle
trinity is an invention not supported by jesus in the bible.
there is nothing to add. everything else has been an invention of priests and bishops
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8
It's not supported? Prove it.
lchiddle 1 year ago
@lchiddle
prove me it is.From JESUS, not paul,thomas john peter.. jesus is what we want.
the other people only interpreted jesus teachings to their understanding.
Pua8 1 year ago
@Pua8
And what exactly are you doing then, but making your own interpretation? The big differences between your interpretation and the disciples of Jesus are:
1.You have your religion influencing how you interpret things.
2.The disciple actually knew Jesus.
3.They had the Holy Spirit that lead them into all truth (John 16:13).
lchiddle 1 year ago
All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Come to me, all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Matthew 11:27-30
lchiddle 1 year ago
But Jesus remained silent. And the high priest said to him, I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said to him, You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest tore his robes and said, He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy.
Matthew 26:63-66
lchiddle 1 year ago