Kumdo/Gumdo is the Korean pronunciation of Kendo and it was introduced into the Korean Peninsula from Japan during the period of the Japanese protectorate and annexation (1895-1945). Before that martial arts didn't exist in Korea. So it's never a traditional Korean martial art from ancient times.
It's true that Koreans began learning sword skills from Chinese and they called it 本國劍/本国剣 in the 18th century, but it didn't catch on.
The first time Koreans used the word "HaedongKumdo/海東剣道" was in about 1982. It's not so long ago. In short, it's a fraud that they claim HaedongKumdo is a Korean traditional martial art.
Incidentally, the parties have already pleaded guilty to the HaedongKumdo fraud in a Korean court.
What Koreans are doing now is a creation based on Japanese Kendo. But because the new martial art required Koreans to make a difference from Kendo, they adopted flashy action stunts like jumping or spinning.
First, you Koreans must set out the records of HaedongKumdo before 1970s if you can.
How about videos? Is there a film until 1980 showing HaedongKumdo?
How about pictures? Is there a picture until 1980 showing HaedongKumdo?
How about historical records? Since the 17th century many Westerners stayed in the Korean Peninsula. They wrote about Korean archery but any swordplay or unarmed martial art doesn't appear in those records. Don't you find this strange?
You Koreans had better admit HaedongKumdo is a fraud and stop spreading lies immediately.
Gum-do is from Kendo, there is no doubt about it. However these arts are from 24ban or 18ban and sword technique is called Bonkukkum, a rarely exposed sword art from Silla dynasty. This is the martial art worthy to become a national treasure along with taekkyon, Su-bak(if original form exists).
This is more than gum mu (sword dance). This organization states that its curriculum is from the Muye Dobu Tongji (Korean military document written in 1790). This book demonstrates that the Korean military of that time not only had native martial arts but was also influenced by both China & Japan.
Kendo was introduced to Korea during Japan's occupation (1910-1945), a time in which the Korean language was suppressed. After Korean independence & the reinstating of Korean as the country's national language, the term kumdo was used. This is logical since that is the Korean pronunciation of the hancha (kanji). The Korea Kumdo Association is a branch of the International Kendo Federation, thus Kendo & Kumdo are the same in that case. However, this clip is not KKA & therefore not Kendo.
Why don't you admit that it started after ww2 honestly? Musa? Do you want to say it's a sort of Bushi in Japan? You better guess how silly it is for Japanese watcher!
If this is all from Japan, why are they using shields? The reason is because they are using a Ming Dynasty formation developed by Gen. Qi JIguang called the Mandarin Duck Formation. You might want to do some reading & not just repeat DOJO LORE. Partisan Here say is not history.
and many people say the similarity of name, kendo and kumdo. both use same chinese character, 劍道. which means way to use sword. traditional kumdo didn't copied the kendo. but dae-han kumdo, ithink, they copied japanese one.
lots of people think that swordmanship is japanese, but as you know EVERY COUNTRY HAVE BEEN USED SWORD SOR BLADES FOR FIGHTING. as they experience fightings, THEY STARTED TO USE THEIR SWORDS IN EFFICIENT WAY, AND THAT' THE ROOT OF SWORDMANSHIP. AND IT DOES EXIST IN KOREA BECAUSE ANCIENT KOREAN USED SWORD. NOT ONLY JAPANESE
kung fu was invented by a monk of china, and some asian martials invented faster than kun-fu. some korean historian say that asian first martial was
invented in korea, and it's name is su-bak(dang-su)
but i think su-bak,at that time, was a world wide martiial. not korean. so i deny the historians about that part. you can find ancient korean grafiti of su-bak of Goguryeo.
the video is explaining about simple tactics. korean and japanese martial arts have their roots in china but not kung-fu. tkd is mixture of korean martial art (belt system and uniform system are from japan). hwarangdo is pure korean(of course roots from china)......... 2DRevBeat you misunderstood. anyway when you speak of a country's history, you shuold be more cautious because you can send wrong information about the country. histroy isn't a small talk. be serious.
I agree with you in fact I consider Taekwondo like it was a traditional korean martial art.... but no Hwarangdo that is clearly a mixture. Taekwondo has an identity at least. Maybe because it became a national symbol which rapresent Korea.
Also, i know what Goguryeo is and i know that japanese tried to deny it, but they have to understand that japanese and korean martial art all have their roots in chinese Kung Fu. I mean, is clearly obvious.
1st of all, Wikipedia is not a great site. Anyone can update it and anything about Korea is updated by Vank.
2nd, the TKD is not OLD and does not represent KOREA or GOGURYEO~ a.) Creator of TKD was General CHOI HONG HI b.) He learned karate in UNiversity of Tokyo from Gi Chin Funakoshi. c.) Research it. He had an interview in Tae Kwon Do Times. d.) it was created in late 1950s.
3rd KOrean government knows this but is erasing General Choi Hong Hi from history books for lies.
Taekwondo, even though it has a Japanese name, it took after Korean Hwarang(花郞or 風月, old Korean warlord spirit, putting emphasis on loyality to the country and parents) spirit for its philosophical background, and also took after Subak(手箔, meaning hands and feet only, the same meaning as Okinawan 空手 which means with no weapons) for its techniques.
Not really. Some Korean marital arts whose names end with 'do(道)' were influenced by Japanese style. But some are not.
They just name it XXX-do newly. For example, 'Kumdo(劍道)' in the video was called 'Kumsul(劒術)' in the past. However some stupid Koreans carelessly renamed it 'Kumdo(劍道)' since 'do'(道, meaning philosophy) sounds fancier than 'sul'(術, meaning technique).
However there's another type of Kumdo(劒道) in Korea that's from Japan. That's different from the Kumdo(劒道) in the video that's Korean Kumsul.
In Korea, traditionally marital arts or some special type of disciplines were called Ye(藝, arts) or Sul(術, technique), while Japanese called those stuffs, Do(道, philosophy).
And about Taekwondo. Yes, it's relatively new among Korean marital arts and have a Japanese style name. Adopting a Japanese name to something Korean was widely happened during the Japanese occupation in WW2. And naming Taekwondo is on the same thread.
I couldn't see clearly in this video, but in other vids of the same type, the sword is Korean. Where japanese blades are attached to the hilt by 3 wooden pegs, the korean blade is secured to the hilt by a tube. Often tassels were attached to this tube.
it was corea from the very beggining, until the japanese invaded, when they took control they changed the first letter to K instead of a C, so that the japanese name would come first alphabetically.
i believe the japanese changed it cause they don't ahve a "c" in their alphabet but they do have a "k" sound so they changed it. I higher doubt that they changed it so that they would come before korea.
well thats a possibility, but i lived in japan for 7 years and its true that they prefere k over c, cuz to type any character with a "k" sound they use that letter.
they prefer K but, they do kno what C is too. besides they dont use alphabets, they use characters. i kno, i speak japanese.
korea withstood centriues of attacks again and agian from china, mongolia and japan.. it only fell to japan cause of thier god damn guns whcih unfortunatly wnt to japan first cause it was found first by the west
Even Japanese historian recognize that their culture were created by the people who crossed East Sea into their islands(渡來人, ancient Korean). You know there had been no horses in the Japanese islands before Korean mounted warriors crossed East Sea into the islands.
Don't forget, Korea is in the center of warring nations. Mongolia, China, and Japan. Muyetobutonjin... I bought that book from Tuttle press many years ago. So far, all it does is to show me that many Koreans learned many different styles of arts that are similar to other arts. Does it mean that it's not Korean and that it's purely Japanese? NO. not one bit. It means that Koreans probably adopted something that they saw as more effective than what they used and merged the styles.
True!:] but the korean warriors, hwarang was called student of the samurai! and the korean sword , gum and haidong jingum is a korean version of the japanese katana. korean sword smiths learnd to make those swords from japanese sword smiths! ( please forgive my english :] )
um ever heard of jo-ui of koguryo and saurabi of paekche? both were like japanese samurais, except, they existed way before. hwarang was rather a student of jo-ui and saurabi, not samurais. btw, paekche kingdom of korea was the one that taught japan to make swords, build castle walls, read and write hanzi, etc. please go learn proper history...
also, master lee from LA learned Kumdo in Korea. Back in the 50s-60s, KUMDO was rare and usually practiced by the WEALTHY during Japanese occupation. Most Japanese teachers in Japan at that time only allowed wealthy Koreans to partake in the event or they did it VIA YMCA. Kumdo rules as we know it today are definitely Japanese. However, HAE DONG KUMDO claims to be uniquely Korean... so far, it doesn't look much like Kendo
also, Commoners in Korea didn't carry swords, they used sharpened bamboo or spears. Usually accompanied by FLAILS or dagger to that nature. True, hideoyoshi did invade Korea. However, all officer to officer battles record that Korean officers did fight to the end usually with swords. To say that everything from Japan is not true... but I do believe in influence
uhm... TKD is not older than Karate. Maybe Taekyun, but TKD roots are strongly and more influenced by Okinawan Karate VIA GICHIN FUNAKOSHI than Taekyun. Mas Oyama, and General Choi Hong Hi were both students of Gichin. Think. You're born in a country that controlled by japanese. you really gonna spend more time learning taekyun? I don't think so.
True! but i think i read some place that taekyun and tae kwon do was the same martial art originated from japanese/okinawan Karate, but taekyun and tae kwon do got splitted in the 40s or 50s or some thing ? im not shure this is true, but i think i read it some place i dont remeber. if im wrong, so please say so :]
Same art? nope :) Karate traces back into the 1800s. Taekyun has documents well back to the 14-1500s. Taekyun was practiced under "karate" up until the 40s because of harsh cultural disintegration mandated by the Japanese government. If you practiced any Korean martial art and called it by it's Korean name, your life would've been harder to live than it was under Japanese occupation. But Yes, TKD is influenced by Okinawan Karate.
@benelliman taekyun was a foot game not a martial arts more like boxing is to modern period its mroe entertainment than military or self defense. Choson army practice no martial art except archery.
@kaindrg boxing is a game, but it's still a martial art. A boxer can still kick the ass of a non boxer in real combat. Same with Taekyun. If by your logic, there is not a single martial art in the world. Kendo or Karate or taekwando are not martial arts because players fight for points. All martial arts has to be practiced through a game - a simulation of real combat where people are minimally hurt.
@benelliman also its intersting that the group drills coming from the Muyedobotongji and Muyesinbo are from chinese general qi ji guang after he battles agaist teh japanese pirate its based of his Ji Xiao Xin Shu and the specific formation is mandarin duck formation
@benelliman so you believe that the japs succeeded with their plan to wipe out korean culture..?
do you really believe that japs wiped out the culture of the people who converted japan from an barbaric country into somewhat civilized people..? (well they never excelled at anything but barbarism but hey, at least a little bit of culture)
@benelliman think: buddhism came over korea to japan. with buddhism everything that belongs to it. the very foundation of the japanese culture. and together with buddhism also other highly developed skills...no...i don't think that japan succeeded with it's plan to falsify history...at least not totally...
@benelliman i don't think i need to explain it further, do i...?
these facts are accepted by international scientific history committees...(ofcourse excpet japanese "historians")...
but ofcourse in the end the version is true which is accepted by the masses...and ofcourse japan still strives to falsify history. so i don't blame you. and YES. I would spend more time learning Taekkyeon...
its like fucking arguing who invented the sword first.... BOTH nations had swords for SLASHING (katana) BOTH nations had a way of learning not just one nation had martial arts. I don't fuking know the background on the history because I wasn't there and no one can prove exactly wth happend in history.
In addition, it is described in "朝鮮王朝実録" as follows. 1.The fencing was not handed down to our country to date from the ancient times. 2.There was not the swordsman in our country to date from the ancient times. 3.Our country cannot fit a spear and a sword and prevented an enemy with a bow and arrow.
A practical skill of the employment examination for government officials to employ a military officer was mounting a horse, a bow, spearmanship, and there was not the fencing.
It is time of the Korea dispatch of troops of Hideyoshi Toyotomi that your country knew fencing. I ask general "駱尚志" of the "明国" which proceeded to the reinforcement from the experience that awfully had a hard fight of this time and learn fencing.
However, it is said that the ability of soldiers did not improve easily.
When there is it in discrimination awareness of Confucian vassals despising an officer, the king does the cause and grieves over thought of this tradition.
The fencing did not root in the country which admired a civil officer, and despised an officer after all.
Your ancient people were not able to hand down fencing as tradition even if a system of the fencing, technique were written to "武芸図譜通志" not to be able to practice it.
Japan passed through the actual fighting experience that sword and fencing brought in the past by China and Korea crossed for several hundred years and developed the fencing to treat original sword (the backsword which there is a curve) and it called the Japanese sword with both hands at the middle of the (794 years, about 1185) in the Heian era and brought up moral culture called the Bushido later.
The fencing was full of the prosperity through the invention such as a bamboo sword or the protective gear in all over Japan for Edo period, and it was it till the dojo studio number counted 400 by the late Tokugawa period. The kendo that came out of fencing is the martial arts that came from the Japanese history, culture, mind deeply, and it is sports.
The kendo was conveyed as Japanese culture in the Japanese rule times by Korea.
And it develops as KUMDO which is a Korean reading of the kendo in Korea.
However, why would you change your name from kendo to KUMDO? The common country respects the culture of other countries and makes an effort to raise it more. The country which changed its name has not heard the culture of other countries.
Please tell the reason that changed its name from kendo to KUMDO.
Finally I ask so that it is scanned "武芸図譜通志" and "朝鮮王朝実録".
coolsnifer, Kumdo and Kendo both use the same chinese characters. Except it is pronounced differently in Korea and Japan. "Ken" (jap)= "Kum" (kor) = sword, "Do"= way. Kumdo = Jap. Kendo but only pronounced differntly. Haedong uses many of the Jap. sword form in kendo but with some forms from ancient Korean drill books were added.
Yes, at least that's what I read about. Kendo is effective on one-on-one duel, whereas Kumdo is great for fighting multiple targets. And if you read up on Japanese and Korean warfare, it makes sense: the Japanese fought with honor, hence one-on-one, until the Mongols came, and the Koreans fought in groups, hence multiple targets. Enough fighting over who gets to be the ancestor of the art. Forgive the lousy grammar.
japan fought with honour? my ass fought with honour lol they fought with honour in wars? when they had more men then the koreans did lol go read some history kid
That is not true. Fighting one-on-one or in groups solely depends on the circumstances. That clearly is not a difference between Korea and Japan (or any nation/ culture in the world).
Kendo is a sport. You hit the amour of the enemy to score points. also the strikes are not preformed in such a way that it would deal sufficient damage.
In modern Japan, Kendo is a very specific martial art/sport. In Korea, the word kumdo/gumdo can mean any sword system & does not refer to any specific martial art. Kendo is one on one since its main developed was not during the waring states era. This clip is Muyetobutongi Gumdo, not Haedong Kumdo. Its premise is that it is derived from a Korean military text, the Muyetobutongi. This book not only shows korean swordsmanship but other weapons, empty handed fighting & foreign systems.
Ya. And in that same book Muyetobutongi, it states where the fighting styles came from. Koreans needed to learn to adapt to different styles, right? They have sections called Chinese Spear and Japanese sword.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Ex) tae kwon do originated before karate. Hap Ki do was taken and Japanese used the ideas known as Judo. This all happened when Japan went to war with Korea. I am the Ahn Dong Kim shi clan and one of the successors for martial arts,I understand how you feel and agree that they do not have to be odds.
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Japanese culture of martial arts were stolen from Korean cultures and chinese cultures tomurso Korean history started before japanese and korean martial arts before japanese ones, to say Muye Dobu Tongji has jap. systems is incorrect.
I am not adding any politics to this discussion, just stating neutral facts. Foreign systems of military tactics are indeed included. As quoted from Turtle Press's description of the book "...Muye Dobo Tongji clearly shows the influence of neighboring Japanese and Chinese armies."
Having a degree in Asian studies, having lived in both Korean & Japan & being a practitioner of several martial arts from both countries, I am very aware of their shared influences. Both countries have rich histories which they can be proud of.
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This video makes me proud. Our Korean culture still lives! Screw that japanese crap thats trying to run the show! Push that shit away and bring the Muye Dobo Tongji!!!
Being a practitioner of both Korean & Japanese sword arts, I feel both have a rightful place in the martial arts community & do not have to be at odds.
BTW, the Muye Dobu Tongji (old Korean manual on martial arts) does contain some Japanese systems.
The reason why I posted it like that was because of the torturing amount of Japanese martial arts that were forcefully integrated in our culture between the early 1900's and 1945. I didn't want to see any more Japanese arts being masked as Korean martial arts anymore, so I said it so. Oh and please stop saying thank you at the end of your sentence. It brings about a very egotistical presence.
The "Thank you" was meant as a polite salutation & no egotism was intended.
I am also appreciative of attempts to restore Korean martial arts prior to the Japanese occupation. However, the current systems being taught are still very much worth learning. I wish all in the martial arts community a promising future.
Well that's good to hear but it still brings it because you correct everyone. It isn't the thank you itself that brings it but how you handle the "incorrect information" before you finish it off with the thank you. In any case, I believe that they are "worth learning" but you have to understand how painful it is to see our people acting this way when they have pride in our cultures.
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Please watch this video.
I entreat you.
"Korean swordmanship"
watch?v=uQ5zOKB3yzw
enushisama 5 months ago
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朝鮮王朝實録：The Annals of the choson Dynasty (The True Record of the Korean Dynasty)…
【June 11, 1480】矧惟國人, 不慣槍劍, 專業弓矢, 爲禦敵之備
The people were not accustomed to use of sword or spear, defended from enemies only by archery...
【October 13, 1592】上敎政院曰“我國絶無劒手”
The king said “There was no swordman in our country at all”...
【July 11, 1594】我國自古劍術不傳
There has not been descendent any swordplay from ancient time in our country...
enushisama 6 months ago
武藝圖譜通志Muye Dobo Tongji (1790) : Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts in Korea
【 It is the official document at Korean Dynasty, written by The Korean King order in the 18th century 】
國練兵之制三軍練于郊，衛士練于禁苑，其禁苑練兵盛自 光廟朝，然止弓矢一技而已如槍劍法技，既未之聞焉，
Archery was the only martial art that had been practiced by Korean soldiers. They have no skills of sword or spear fighting.
enushisama 6 months ago
All is a delusion.
tangeko1 7 months ago
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Kumdo/Gumdo is the Korean pronunciation of Kendo and it was introduced into the Korean Peninsula from Japan during the period of the Japanese protectorate and annexation (1895-1945). Before that martial arts didn't exist in Korea. So it's never a traditional Korean martial art from ancient times.
It's true that Koreans began learning sword skills from Chinese and they called it 本國劍/本国剣 in the 18th century, but it didn't catch on.
/watch?v=xcc3_iBmMyM
HaedongKumdoIsaLie 9 months ago
2.
The first time Koreans used the word "HaedongKumdo/海東剣道" was in about 1982. It's not so long ago. In short, it's a fraud that they claim HaedongKumdo is a Korean traditional martial art.
Incidentally, the parties have already pleaded guilty to the HaedongKumdo fraud in a Korean court.
해동검도재판기록 (HaedongKumdo trial record)
blog(.)daum(.)net/_blog/BlogTypeView(.)do?blogid=06zf6&articleno=9050199&admin=#ajax_history_home
HaedongKumdoIsaLie 9 months ago
3.
What Koreans are doing now is a creation based on Japanese Kendo. But because the new martial art required Koreans to make a difference from Kendo, they adopted flashy action stunts like jumping or spinning.
First, you Koreans must set out the records of HaedongKumdo before 1970s if you can.
HaedongKumdoIsaLie 9 months ago
4.
How about videos? Is there a film until 1980 showing HaedongKumdo?
How about pictures? Is there a picture until 1980 showing HaedongKumdo?
How about historical records? Since the 17th century many Westerners stayed in the Korean Peninsula. They wrote about Korean archery but any swordplay or unarmed martial art doesn't appear in those records. Don't you find this strange?
You Koreans had better admit HaedongKumdo is a fraud and stop spreading lies immediately.
HaedongKumdoIsaLie 9 months ago
Why do they swing samurai swords with wearing Mongolian armours?
danceontightrope 1 year ago
I thought basic kendo moves came from China.
watsupzzful 1 year ago
Gum-do is from Kendo, there is no doubt about it. However these arts are from 24ban or 18ban and sword technique is called Bonkukkum, a rarely exposed sword art from Silla dynasty. This is the martial art worthy to become a national treasure along with taekkyon, Su-bak(if original form exists).
fixboy87 1 year ago
This is Korean sword dance influenced by China.
But, I can't understand what they want to call 'KUMDO'.
Korean learned Japanese Kendo between 1920 and 1930 from Japan.
And they started to call Kendo 'KUMDO' in the 1960's.
maze1192 2 years ago
This is more than gum mu (sword dance). This organization states that its curriculum is from the Muye Dobu Tongji (Korean military document written in 1790). This book demonstrates that the Korean military of that time not only had native martial arts but was also influenced by both China & Japan.
tomurso 2 years ago
Kendo was introduced to Korea during Japan's occupation (1910-1945), a time in which the Korean language was suppressed. After Korean independence & the reinstating of Korean as the country's national language, the term kumdo was used. This is logical since that is the Korean pronunciation of the hancha (kanji). The Korea Kumdo Association is a branch of the International Kendo Federation, thus Kendo & Kumdo are the same in that case. However, this clip is not KKA & therefore not Kendo.
tomurso 2 years ago 2
Why don't you admit that it started after ww2 honestly? Musa? Do you want to say it's a sort of Bushi in Japan? You better guess how silly it is for Japanese watcher!
NoNoSpice 2 years ago
you shouldn't say everything asian came from japan
ihahahayou 2 years ago
If this is all from Japan, why are they using shields? The reason is because they are using a Ming Dynasty formation developed by Gen. Qi JIguang called the Mandarin Duck Formation. You might want to do some reading & not just repeat DOJO LORE. Partisan Here say is not history.
ChenQiangJianke 2 years ago
daehan kumdo didnt copy anything japanese...just to clear it up
kumdokid 2 years ago
and many people say the similarity of name, kendo and kumdo. both use same chinese character, 劍道. which means way to use sword. traditional kumdo didn't copied the kendo. but dae-han kumdo, ithink, they copied japanese one.
sdn049 2 years ago
lots of people think that swordmanship is japanese, but as you know EVERY COUNTRY HAVE BEEN USED SWORD SOR BLADES FOR FIGHTING. as they experience fightings, THEY STARTED TO USE THEIR SWORDS IN EFFICIENT WAY, AND THAT' THE ROOT OF SWORDMANSHIP. AND IT DOES EXIST IN KOREA BECAUSE ANCIENT KOREAN USED SWORD. NOT ONLY JAPANESE
sdn049 2 years ago
kung fu was invented by a monk of china, and some asian martials invented faster than kun-fu. some korean historian say that asian first martial was
invented in korea, and it's name is su-bak(dang-su)
but i think su-bak,at that time, was a world wide martiial. not korean. so i deny the historians about that part. you can find ancient korean grafiti of su-bak of Goguryeo.
sdn049 2 years ago
Comment removed
sdn049 2 years ago
the video is explaining about simple tactics. korean and japanese martial arts have their roots in china but not kung-fu. tkd is mixture of korean martial art (belt system and uniform system are from japan). hwarangdo is pure korean(of course roots from china)......... 2DRevBeat you misunderstood. anyway when you speak of a country's history, you shuold be more cautious because you can send wrong information about the country. histroy isn't a small talk. be serious.
sdn049 2 years ago
Man Fuck Lee Myung Bak
3gyupsal 2 years ago
@3gyupsal Agree since his memory can hold 2MB.
6arcsn1sky 11 months ago
When i said 'it represent korea i meant that in the other countries, like here in italy, korea is known mostly for TKD.
And i dont care if TKD is not ancient and whatever coz i like it for what it is!!
2DRevBeat 2 years ago
They have to accept their history because changing it is just crazy.
I dont know about Kumdo though.
.
2DRevBeat 2 years ago
I agree with you in fact I consider Taekwondo like it was a traditional korean martial art.... but no Hwarangdo that is clearly a mixture. Taekwondo has an identity at least. Maybe because it became a national symbol which rapresent Korea.
Also, i know what Goguryeo is and i know that japanese tried to deny it, but they have to understand that japanese and korean martial art all have their roots in chinese Kung Fu. I mean, is clearly obvious.
2DRevBeat 2 years ago
Wow.
1st of all, Wikipedia is not a great site. Anyone can update it and anything about Korea is updated by Vank.
2nd, the TKD is not OLD and does not represent KOREA or GOGURYEO~ a.) Creator of TKD was General CHOI HONG HI b.) He learned karate in UNiversity of Tokyo from Gi Chin Funakoshi. c.) Research it. He had an interview in Tae Kwon Do Times. d.) it was created in late 1950s.
3rd KOrean government knows this but is erasing General Choi Hong Hi from history books for lies.
benelliman 2 years ago 2
Taekwondo, even though it has a Japanese name, it took after Korean Hwarang(花郞or 風月, old Korean warlord spirit, putting emphasis on loyality to the country and parents) spirit for its philosophical background, and also took after Subak(手箔, meaning hands and feet only, the same meaning as Okinawan 空手 which means with no weapons) for its techniques.
genkotaku 2 years ago
All the koreans martial arts that end with 'do' are modern, so that means that they're influenced by japanese styles!
The martial arts like Taekkyon, Sippalgi ,Sundomuye and so on are more ancient.
Beside, japanese and korean martial arts all come from chinese martial arts.
2DRevBeat 2 years ago
Not really. Some Korean marital arts whose names end with 'do(道)' were influenced by Japanese style. But some are not.
They just name it XXX-do newly. For example, 'Kumdo(劍道)' in the video was called 'Kumsul(劒術)' in the past. However some stupid Koreans carelessly renamed it 'Kumdo(劍道)' since 'do'(道, meaning philosophy) sounds fancier than 'sul'(術, meaning technique).
genkotaku 2 years ago
However there's another type of Kumdo(劒道) in Korea that's from Japan. That's different from the Kumdo(劒道) in the video that's Korean Kumsul.
In Korea, traditionally marital arts or some special type of disciplines were called Ye(藝, arts) or Sul(術, technique), while Japanese called those stuffs, Do(道, philosophy).
genkotaku 2 years ago
And about Taekwondo. Yes, it's relatively new among Korean marital arts and have a Japanese style name. Adopting a Japanese name to something Korean was widely happened during the Japanese occupation in WW2. And naming Taekwondo is on the same thread.
genkotaku 2 years ago
pretty gay for china and japan to fight korea in a war for like 900 years!
DynastyWarriors45 3 years ago
I couldn't see clearly in this video, but in other vids of the same type, the sword is Korean. Where japanese blades are attached to the hilt by 3 wooden pegs, the korean blade is secured to the hilt by a tube. Often tassels were attached to this tube.
stabdaback 3 years ago
haha i bet they feel so stupid from changing corea to korea because they wanted to be first in the olympics everyone laughs at them
7skf7 3 years ago
u must be an idiot...
it was corea from the very beggining, until the japanese invaded, when they took control they changed the first letter to K instead of a C, so that the japanese name would come first alphabetically.
idiot.
xxmsp91 3 years ago
i believe the japanese changed it cause they don't ahve a "c" in their alphabet but they do have a "k" sound so they changed it. I higher doubt that they changed it so that they would come before korea.
DragonPalace88 3 years ago
well thats a possibility, but i lived in japan for 7 years and its true that they prefere k over c, cuz to type any character with a "k" sound they use that letter.
they prefer K but, they do kno what C is too. besides they dont use alphabets, they use characters. i kno, i speak japanese.
xxmsp91 3 years ago
yea its pretty much the same thing and theres also proof that they mentioned the olympics when they changed it from c to k dumb ass look it up
7skf7 3 years ago
korea withstood centriues of attacks again and agian from china, mongolia and japan.. it only fell to japan cause of thier god damn guns whcih unfortunatly wnt to japan first cause it was found first by the west
jollajolyo 3 years ago
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Even Japanese historian recognize that their culture were created by the people who crossed East Sea into their islands(渡來人, ancient Korean). You know there had been no horses in the Japanese islands before Korean mounted warriors crossed East Sea into the islands.
korikhan 3 years ago
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100% agreed
Deude91 3 years ago
Don't forget, Korea is in the center of warring nations. Mongolia, China, and Japan. Muyetobutonjin... I bought that book from Tuttle press many years ago. So far, all it does is to show me that many Koreans learned many different styles of arts that are similar to other arts. Does it mean that it's not Korean and that it's purely Japanese? NO. not one bit. It means that Koreans probably adopted something that they saw as more effective than what they used and merged the styles.
benelliman 4 years ago
True!:] but the korean warriors, hwarang was called student of the samurai! and the korean sword , gum and haidong jingum is a korean version of the japanese katana. korean sword smiths learnd to make those swords from japanese sword smiths! ( please forgive my english :] )
henkihareid 3 years ago
um ever heard of jo-ui of koguryo and saurabi of paekche? both were like japanese samurais, except, they existed way before. hwarang was rather a student of jo-ui and saurabi, not samurais. btw, paekche kingdom of korea was the one that taught japan to make swords, build castle walls, read and write hanzi, etc. please go learn proper history...
avgkrnboy 3 years ago
also, master lee from LA learned Kumdo in Korea. Back in the 50s-60s, KUMDO was rare and usually practiced by the WEALTHY during Japanese occupation. Most Japanese teachers in Japan at that time only allowed wealthy Koreans to partake in the event or they did it VIA YMCA. Kumdo rules as we know it today are definitely Japanese. However, HAE DONG KUMDO claims to be uniquely Korean... so far, it doesn't look much like Kendo
benelliman 4 years ago
also, Commoners in Korea didn't carry swords, they used sharpened bamboo or spears. Usually accompanied by FLAILS or dagger to that nature. True, hideoyoshi did invade Korea. However, all officer to officer battles record that Korean officers did fight to the end usually with swords. To say that everything from Japan is not true... but I do believe in influence
benelliman 4 years ago
uhm... TKD is not older than Karate. Maybe Taekyun, but TKD roots are strongly and more influenced by Okinawan Karate VIA GICHIN FUNAKOSHI than Taekyun. Mas Oyama, and General Choi Hong Hi were both students of Gichin. Think. You're born in a country that controlled by japanese. you really gonna spend more time learning taekyun? I don't think so.
benelliman 4 years ago 7
True! but i think i read some place that taekyun and tae kwon do was the same martial art originated from japanese/okinawan Karate, but taekyun and tae kwon do got splitted in the 40s or 50s or some thing ? im not shure this is true, but i think i read it some place i dont remeber. if im wrong, so please say so :]
henkihareid 3 years ago
Same art? nope :) Karate traces back into the 1800s. Taekyun has documents well back to the 14-1500s. Taekyun was practiced under "karate" up until the 40s because of harsh cultural disintegration mandated by the Japanese government. If you practiced any Korean martial art and called it by it's Korean name, your life would've been harder to live than it was under Japanese occupation. But Yes, TKD is influenced by Okinawan Karate.
benelliman 3 years ago
If I remember right, I think I've seen an article where taekkyun was in Goguryeo times. But I highly doubt that one.
grapeace1 3 years ago
What's Goguryeo times?
Is it a book? magazine?
benelliman 3 years ago 2
No no. The time Goguryeo existed. Sorry.
It seems very unlikely, though.
grapeace1 3 years ago
i agree... + tae kyun was more of a sport / past time more than a martial art
benelliman 3 years ago
You can refer to what Goguryeo is at Wikipedia. It's a Korean history that all the Japanese want deny.
genkotaku 2 years ago
@benelliman taekyun was a foot game not a martial arts more like boxing is to modern period its mroe entertainment than military or self defense. Choson army practice no martial art except archery.
kaindrg 1 year ago
@kaindrg boxing is a game, but it's still a martial art. A boxer can still kick the ass of a non boxer in real combat. Same with Taekyun. If by your logic, there is not a single martial art in the world. Kendo or Karate or taekwando are not martial arts because players fight for points. All martial arts has to be practiced through a game - a simulation of real combat where people are minimally hurt.
stabdaback 1 year ago
@benelliman also its intersting that the group drills coming from the Muyedobotongji and Muyesinbo are from chinese general qi ji guang after he battles agaist teh japanese pirate its based of his Ji Xiao Xin Shu and the specific formation is mandarin duck formation
kaindrg 1 year ago
@benelliman so you believe that the japs succeeded with their plan to wipe out korean culture..?
do you really believe that japs wiped out the culture of the people who converted japan from an barbaric country into somewhat civilized people..? (well they never excelled at anything but barbarism but hey, at least a little bit of culture)
ssi1991 1 year ago
@benelliman think: buddhism came over korea to japan. with buddhism everything that belongs to it. the very foundation of the japanese culture. and together with buddhism also other highly developed skills...no...i don't think that japan succeeded with it's plan to falsify history...at least not totally...
ssi1991 1 year ago
@benelliman i don't think i need to explain it further, do i...?
these facts are accepted by international scientific history committees...(ofcourse excpet japanese "historians")...
but ofcourse in the end the version is true which is accepted by the masses...and ofcourse japan still strives to falsify history. so i don't blame you. and YES. I would spend more time learning Taekkyeon...
ssi1991 1 year ago
this is copy martial art
korean588 4 years ago 2
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its like fucking arguing who invented the sword first.... BOTH nations had swords for SLASHING (katana) BOTH nations had a way of learning not just one nation had martial arts. I don't fuking know the background on the history because I wasn't there and no one can prove exactly wth happend in history.
HeroOfXanadus 4 years ago
I ask about KUMDO.
When it was only archery, the Korea original martial arts are specified in preface of the martial arts book "武芸図譜通志" of your country.
coolsnifer 4 years ago
In addition, it is described in "朝鮮王朝実録" as follows. 1.The fencing was not handed down to our country to date from the ancient times. 2.There was not the swordsman in our country to date from the ancient times. 3.Our country cannot fit a spear and a sword and prevented an enemy with a bow and arrow.
coolsnifer 4 years ago 3
A practical skill of the employment examination for government officials to employ a military officer was mounting a horse, a bow, spearmanship, and there was not the fencing.
It is time of the Korea dispatch of troops of Hideyoshi Toyotomi that your country knew fencing. I ask general "駱尚志" of the "明国" which proceeded to the reinforcement from the experience that awfully had a hard fight of this time and learn fencing.
coolsnifer 4 years ago 4
However, it is said that the ability of soldiers did not improve easily.
When there is it in discrimination awareness of Confucian vassals despising an officer, the king does the cause and grieves over thought of this tradition.
The fencing did not root in the country which admired a civil officer, and despised an officer after all.
coolsnifer 4 years ago 3
Your ancient people were not able to hand down fencing as tradition even if a system of the fencing, technique were written to "武芸図譜通志" not to be able to practice it.
coolsnifer 4 years ago 3
Japan passed through the actual fighting experience that sword and fencing brought in the past by China and Korea crossed for several hundred years and developed the fencing to treat original sword (the backsword which there is a curve) and it called the Japanese sword with both hands at the middle of the (794 years, about 1185) in the Heian era and brought up moral culture called the Bushido later.
coolsnifer 4 years ago 4
The fencing was full of the prosperity through the invention such as a bamboo sword or the protective gear in all over Japan for Edo period, and it was it till the dojo studio number counted 400 by the late Tokugawa period. The kendo that came out of fencing is the martial arts that came from the Japanese history, culture, mind deeply, and it is sports.
The kendo was conveyed as Japanese culture in the Japanese rule times by Korea.
coolsnifer 4 years ago 5
@coolsnifer True, but that doesn't mean people should label all Koreans are frauds. -__-
jung567 8 months ago
And it develops as KUMDO which is a Korean reading of the kendo in Korea.
However, why would you change your name from kendo to KUMDO? The common country respects the culture of other countries and makes an effort to raise it more. The country which changed its name has not heard the culture of other countries.
Please tell the reason that changed its name from kendo to KUMDO.
Finally I ask so that it is scanned "武芸図譜通志" and "朝鮮王朝実録".
coolsnifer 4 years ago 3
oy idiot, they didnt CHANGE the name. Each country had their own style of swords and idiots like you mix them up together
Deude91 3 years ago
coolsnifer, Kumdo and Kendo both use the same chinese characters. Except it is pronounced differently in Korea and Japan. "Ken" (jap)= "Kum" (kor) = sword, "Do"= way. Kumdo = Jap. Kendo but only pronounced differntly. Haedong uses many of the Jap. sword form in kendo but with some forms from ancient Korean drill books were added.
stabdaback 3 years ago
Yes, at least that's what I read about. Kendo is effective on one-on-one duel, whereas Kumdo is great for fighting multiple targets. And if you read up on Japanese and Korean warfare, it makes sense: the Japanese fought with honor, hence one-on-one, until the Mongols came, and the Koreans fought in groups, hence multiple targets. Enough fighting over who gets to be the ancestor of the art. Forgive the lousy grammar.
CptKenChen 3 years ago
japan fought with honour? my ass fought with honour lol they fought with honour in wars? when they had more men then the koreans did lol go read some history kid
DynastyWarriors45 3 years ago
That is not true. Fighting one-on-one or in groups solely depends on the circumstances. That clearly is not a difference between Korea and Japan (or any nation/ culture in the world).
HwarangKnights 3 years ago
Kendo is a sport. You hit the amour of the enemy to score points. also the strikes are not preformed in such a way that it would deal sufficient damage.
BalorCM2 3 years ago
In modern Japan, Kendo is a very specific martial art/sport. In Korea, the word kumdo/gumdo can mean any sword system & does not refer to any specific martial art. Kendo is one on one since its main developed was not during the waring states era. This clip is Muyetobutongi Gumdo, not Haedong Kumdo. Its premise is that it is derived from a Korean military text, the Muyetobutongi. This book not only shows korean swordsmanship but other weapons, empty handed fighting & foreign systems.
tomurso 3 years ago
Ya. And in that same book Muyetobutongi, it states where the fighting styles came from. Koreans needed to learn to adapt to different styles, right? They have sections called Chinese Spear and Japanese sword.
benelliman 3 years ago
현대 검도는 몇백년간의 일본의 실전 검술에서 나온 검증된 것임을 알수 있으며 그 기원은 100%일본인 것을 알수 있습니다.일본의 무술이라 하여 부끄러워할 필요는 전혀 없습니다
koreapride2020 4 years ago 4
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Ex) tae kwon do originated before karate. Hap Ki do was taken and Japanese used the ideas known as Judo. This all happened when Japan went to war with Korea. I am the Ahn Dong Kim shi clan and one of the successors for martial arts,I understand how you feel and agree that they do not have to be odds.
UKtkd4EVA 4 years ago
hapkido is based on Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu not Judo. The creator of Hapkido was a student of Sokaku Takeda.
sleepykid156 4 years ago 2
but i do agree that TKD is based on Karate
sleepykid156 4 years ago 3
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Japanese culture of martial arts were stolen from Korean cultures and chinese cultures tomurso Korean history started before japanese and korean martial arts before japanese ones, to say Muye Dobu Tongji has jap. systems is incorrect.
UKtkd4EVA 4 years ago
UKtkdEVA:
"Muye Dobu Tongji has jap. systems is incorrect"
I am not adding any politics to this discussion, just stating neutral facts. Foreign systems of military tactics are indeed included. As quoted from Turtle Press's description of the book "...Muye Dobo Tongji clearly shows the influence of neighboring Japanese and Chinese armies."
Thank you
tomurso 4 years ago
Having a degree in Asian studies, having lived in both Korean & Japan & being a practitioner of several martial arts from both countries, I am very aware of their shared influences. Both countries have rich histories which they can be proud of.
Thank you
tomurso 4 years ago
the is a great video. i am now in love with this. and i must say, some of the Forms that are being done, look quiet familiar to me
moshman1000 4 years ago
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This video makes me proud. Our Korean culture still lives! Screw that japanese crap thats trying to run the show! Push that shit away and bring the Muye Dobo Tongji!!!
YunSeung 4 years ago
Being a practitioner of both Korean & Japanese sword arts, I feel both have a rightful place in the martial arts community & do not have to be at odds.
BTW, the Muye Dobu Tongji (old Korean manual on martial arts) does contain some Japanese systems.
Thank you
tomurso 4 years ago 4
It's called Wae Gum bup. I'm fully aware of this.
The reason why I posted it like that was because of the torturing amount of Japanese martial arts that were forcefully integrated in our culture between the early 1900's and 1945. I didn't want to see any more Japanese arts being masked as Korean martial arts anymore, so I said it so. Oh and please stop saying thank you at the end of your sentence. It brings about a very egotistical presence.
YunSeung 4 years ago 2
The "Thank you" was meant as a polite salutation & no egotism was intended.
I am also appreciative of attempts to restore Korean martial arts prior to the Japanese occupation. However, the current systems being taught are still very much worth learning. I wish all in the martial arts community a promising future.
Thank you
tomurso 4 years ago 2
Well that's good to hear but it still brings it because you correct everyone. It isn't the thank you itself that brings it but how you handle the "incorrect information" before you finish it off with the thank you. In any case, I believe that they are "worth learning" but you have to understand how painful it is to see our people acting this way when they have pride in our cultures.
YunSeung 4 years ago
MUSA KUMDO...!!
musa7008 4 years ago
와! howd you make this?
danisdaman 4 years ago