Hazing And Black Colleges: Is The Practice Of Hazing More Prevalent At HBCUs?

[mastermindrw]

Every person within Black organizations knows that this crap goes on and they do everything to cover it up. It makes me sick. These groups claim to be helping their community through "service" when the foundation of these organizations is fraudulent. Upon entry they make folks sign a bogus anti-hazing document which attempts to circumnavigate around the law if they get caught. Just what we need more young black men learning to break the law. I agree with Professor Jones. Get rid of them all!

[GoldenPoetess22]

People realize there is a difference between hazing and pledging. No one makes you do anything and at no point should you ever feel like you're going to die. At anytime you can stop. I'm not even sure where "hazing" came from outside Greek orgs and to say we're the cause of this because people choose to mirror what's tradition and what's history is completely wrong. It's unfortunate that things go to this extreme, but you have the right to say "NO"

[WildL23]

@GoldenPoetess22 The question is not whether you can say no the question is can you say no and still get into the organization? If you want to get into the organization then you can't say no right? SMH.

[GoldenPoetess22]

@WildL23 It is not a fact that you must be hazed to get in, or at least not for every organization. There are people at my campus that didn't want to got through the process and they were still admitted into that organization.

[WildL23]

@GoldenPoetess22 This is besides the point though because nobody is accusing anybody of forcing people to join. People are saying you should not have to be hazed to join. And as it stands you do in fact have to be hazed to get in. So do you have anything to say about this tradition where you have to be hazed to get in? Should it continue or should it end?

[shawell1]

Bring Dr White Back to Famu

[YRUH8TN]

I was told by a Kappa "I was hazed and I'm gonna haze. No one made me do this I did because I wanted to." As far as I'm concerned if you want to be apart of a exclusive organization(ex. Greek Letter) then yes hazing is a history of the organizations and you don't have to if you don't want to no one is forcing you to join. As for Band members they have no place to haze especially if your there on a music scholarship. There is no place for hazing in that environment.

[larosco]

blacks hazing? come on wtf is this, and i thought i was loosing my mind

[WaywardWinds]

Dr. Jones is completely correct. I understand Mr. Martin's point about the problem of hazing in general but w/ the divine 9 today, especially in HBCUs, you are guaranteed to be hazed, whereas at a PWI, there a hundreds of organizations where you will be not be hazed. It is indeed predominant in the HBCU community. This is undeniable.

[danigantt]

People didn't listen! He didn't say it was just a Black thing! This particular incident was at an HBCU and he happens at most HBCUs. And, it's a different TYPE of hazing from White hazing. And, it needs to be handled in it's own particular way.

[danigantt]

GET 'EM JONES! I can't believe people are agreeing with that penguin Roland. Radical position?? YES, BECAUSE RADICAL WORKS. The other stuff hasn't and doesn't work. How many more people have to die before we all take a radical stand.

[LakeStreetThug]

Those of you who say "the problem is across the board" is missin the fucking POINT!! Hazing at any level at any place by any group of any color is wrong! However black greeks are responsible for more deaths than any other greek! How do you explain that???

[VpW83]

@LakeStreetThug I don't believe blgo's are responsible for more death, I believe it's just reported more from lack of a strong enough alumni network to stop it from making it to the media. The predominately what organizations have PR persons for image control, to protect their image. Even though it's 2011 (almost 2012) whatever negative image that the media can use to portray blacks entities (especially ones that are supposed to bring positivity to a community) in, they will do so.

[Bownorwu06]

Over sixty years ago, great men of Alpha described hazing as "hooliganisms unworthy of college trained men who lay claim to be civilized". The future of the Divine Nine and such organizations are at risk of extinction if we lose sight of the principles upon which they were established. We all have work to do. The ideals of the Talented Tenth are still alive. Be Blessed

[Bownorwu06]

As a proud Alpha man, I believe A man/woman is selected for the Divine Nine based on his/her character, scholarship, fellowship and devotion to the cause and how it lines up with the ideals of the organization. A man should be tested (pledging) to prove his character but bestiality (hazing) does not prove character but illustrates inhumanity. It is not about how one gets into the organization but what he does after he gets in. Service extends beyond college life and wearing the colors.

[Bownorwu06]

A man/woman is selected for the Divine Nine based on his/her character, scholarship, fellowship and devotion to the cause and how it lines up with the ideals of the organization. A man should be tested(pledging) to prove his character but beastiality (hazing) does not prove character but illustrates inhumanity. It is not about how one gets into the organization but what he does after he gets in.

[allisonandmusiclove]

i use to go to an hbcu where everybody got they ass beat and now i go to pre white school and most just pay there way in a soro unless your in a divine nine so yes physical hazing is worse amongst hbcus..also why would i listen to roland hes paper LMAO

[TheMdterp]

While I do think disbanding the organizations as a whole is too much, I agree more with Ricky Jones than Roland Martin. Mr. Jones stated that he was not saying hazing doesn't occur at predominantly white universities. The point that he was making (WHICH IS A TRUE ONE) is that the level of PHYSICAL hazing is much more severe amongst black fraternities. I went to Florida A&M before transferring to Univ of MD College Park and saw the difference. Ricky Jones is correct. Its worse at HBCUs

[Nupesohard]

I agree with Roland, actually. It's a problem across the board, not just at HBCUs.

[rastucke]

Ricky has to be intellectually devoid if he believes hazing is a 'black thing'. Recall - Rituals for BGLO's were derived from white fraternities. You think they stopped hazing when blacks decided to start? My alma mater's IU. White frats get in trouble ALL the time for hazing there. I'm an Alpha & I wouldn't want my letters if I didn't earn them. Having a rubber stamp process WILL NEVER CREATE BONDS!!

[rastucke]

@rastucke Why would I give you my last if our only connection is that we both signed a dotted line pledging our allegiance to each other? That's Bullshit!! Because when shit hits the fan, you will forget about our little paper allegiance. Ricky Jones is Uncle Ruckus in the flesh.

[doctorken2k]

It is not a black thing. I go to an equally both school and I hear it from both sides. Even the other races.

[yaboi04]

I really lose respect for people who always try and put black people own by saying this problem is a black problem...obviously it is not just a black issue.

[iconlb]

Some people dont have the mental capacity to separate pledging, hazing, and straight up non sense. Everyone wants to out do the next person and make their "line" better.

The paper vs. real crap need to disappear b/c at the end of the day we are still brothers and sisters. Remember the real process starts after you become a member.

[2coolfrom93rd]

WTF how the hell they want to get rid of HBCU bands Im a current member of an HBCU band and the reason for me and most other students to really go to college in not because of some dame major but most of the time they just want to MARCH in a real HBCU!!!! The reason im at the school im at now is because of my band!!!!!

[desMCD80]

Prof. Jones should've spoke on that fact that black frats where band at UofL for hazing in 90's. Its not only at HBCU

[thisisMDM]

awwww....damn Roland pledged paper....smh

[drummajor101]

Are we looking at the death of HBCU marching bands?

[Csmooth69]

@drummajor101 I can't say that yet. I would say however a lot of band programs will be tightening the microscopes and will probably doing away with section names, freshman rituals etc. because now its gonna be a liability a program doesn't need. And its unfortunate that it had to come down to this.

[conqueror2001]

DISBAND THE DIVINE 9!!!

[WEllis9]

I look at people that alllow themselves to be submitted to these practices are weak and looking to fit in with a group. I believe in the good old days these organizations had a purpose however they have become nothing more than a way to be considered cool and pick up women or men. Be yourself and be proud of who you are and always remember you are who you are before you got here. Most of these people end up being the people that never end up doing much of anything except being the person that's

[sofisticatedstudios]

So-frat process, remember knowledge, have a time period of rituals, and sugarcoat all you want, YOU DO FIGHT, YOU DO GET HIT, and CLUBS HOPPING IS A MUST, U GOTAA PARTY WITH DA FELLAS! I KNO PLP, this new generation of frats is not about brotherhood, its a gang initiation...im neutral on the subject, just speaking from what i see personally down in Houston, Texas

[orcham01]

Dr. Jones ISN"T a racist or taking a radical stand (on race). But he is tired of seeing people CHILDREN DYING do to some RECKLESS BEHAVIOR. And yes it is a BLACK GREEK and HBCU thing; within the last 5 yrs there at 20 case in which a STUDENT was KILLED or had SERIOUS LIFE THREATENING INJURES trying to enter these organizations compared to Whites. This man is just tired or seeing Parents of all races burying their kids but that want to belong to something and are willing to die or kill for it.

[creemoney92]

i ment to say *band frat* (stupid touchscreen)

[creemoney92]

Also i attend the University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff which is an HBCU &i have a dear friend who is a member of a bad frat &he LOVES it. i said that to say this, everyone has an opinion but if you ask the members themselves would they do it all over again i bet you almost ALL of them will tell you yes...

[creemoney92]

I myslef happens to respect hazing. Please dont get that confused with me agreeing with EXTREME hazing. I just believe firmly that if you go through something the reward is much sweeter..also i feel like everyone is GROWN so if they make the choice to join an organization then that is strictly on them

[mrdrummajor98]

I am sorry. I am a strong proponent of pledging. Not hazing. Get rid of the folks who push pledging into hazing. But by all means, I am better today because I got pledged!!!

[eloredo2k7]

no one makes you do anything......plus u cant put the blame on one group it takes the quote on quote "hazer" and the "hazee" if u want to be real about it...that kappa dude does not know what he is really talking about....he is just trying to place the blame on HBCU's to make himself appear smart...smh

[btone012]

You cant really put all the blame on Red Dawg Order because she said she wanted to be in " The Order " & she walking into that apartment , so blames on her dumb ass

[btone012]

Ok.......... You cant really put all the blame on Red Dawg Order because she said she wanted to be in " The Order " & she walking into that apartment , so blames on her dumb ass. & have you all heard comments, she said " If you doing join a group then your lame" Blames on her ass. Your an grown ass adult now make your own decisions & take responsibility . Now you have a county full of pissed band members. So if you know shit don't say shit

[btone012]

Ok.......... You cant really put all the blame on Red Dawg Order because she said she wanted to be in " The Order " & she walking into that apartment , so blames on her dumb ass. & have you all heard comments, she said " If you doing join a group then your lame" Blames on her ass. Your an grown ass adult now make your own decisions & take responsibility . Now you have a county full of pissed band members. So if you know shit don't say shit

[iamthecoolnerd]

I side with Roland Martin on this one. Ricky Jones has a skewed view of this entire situation. For him to say that hazing is a black problem is bullsh**. MTV had a television show where a group of guys were pledging a white fraternity. These guys were being hazed on NATIONAL TELEVISION. Granted they didn't show major beatings or whatever. But the point is made they got hazed.

Not enough characters; so I'll stop there. Go to iamthecoolnerd [dot] tumblr [dot] com to read the whole version

[sophisticated1920]

Thank you Roland! This Kappa is ignorant & should NOT be a Pan-African professor at anyone's university... His lack of knowledge & understanding of the topic disturbs me!

[BlackSoulKriss]

Ricky Jones is making it a racial matter. It's not. It is merely a societal generational matter.

[Tpur1911]

Prof. Ricky Jones sounds like Uncle Rukus....hazing is bigger than HBCU's and BLGO's. I'm questioning this guys education, "process" and intent. He is seriously making this a racial matter and it's not.

[faireststarr]

White Fraternities REGULARLY have hazing related incidents, i.e., pledges dying of alcohol poisoning, deviant sexual behavior, criminal activity… That paper Kappa, er, Professor, needs to take a SEAT. How can you promote the death of something you profess to be a part of? That’s sickening.

[LikeMyStyle01]

@faireststarr I wouldn't be surprised if you were part of a greek letter organization. Why? Because you exhibited the same behavior Roland Martin referred too when he talked about how peer pressure is the main reason this behavior continues. By calling the professor "paper" you're basically saying that if you don't go through the same hazing that I did I do not look at you the same. Maybe the Professor is the mature one here by saying, I will accept you as a member of AKPsi without hazing.

[faireststarr]

@LikeMyStyle01 - please don't ASSume what I'm saying, because that is NOT what I'm saying. I think that ostracizing members for not getting beaten is silly. HOWEVER, when someone can go through the initiation, take their oath, and turn around and advocate for the dissolution of something they are a part of, that shows that they have NO LOVE for their organization. And it's amazing that THAT one thing is what you picked out of all the other great points that I made.

[bigshowdawg]

THIS WAS AN ORGANIZATION THAT WASNT EVEN AN ORGANIZATION... IT WAS JUST A GROUP OF DUDES ON THE BAND WHO DID SOME BS... THESE GUYS WERE IN NO WAY ANYTHING OFFICIAL... THEY JUST GOT TOGETHER AND STARTED CALLING THEMSELVES A NAME.... IN WHAT WAY ARE GREEK LETTER ORGANIZATIONS TO BLAME FOR THIS???? NEXT THERE GONNA TRY TO BLAME GANGS ON GREEK LETTER ORGANIZATIONS TOO.... THIS IS A FREAKIN JOKE AND THE DUDE THAT IS SO CALLED TRYIN TO TELL ON EVERYONE IS JUST A LAME THAT TRIED TO BE COOL BUT FAILED

[bigshowdawg]

BOTTOM LINE THIS DUDE IS A BITCH! HE DOESNT RESPECT HIS OWN FRATERNITY AS WELL AS OTHERS HE IS A MEMBER OF KAPSI AND HE IS DOING THIS WOW. PUTTING IT ALL ON BLACK FOLKS. WOW THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF I TRIED EVERYTHING TO BE COOL AND IT DIDNT WORK NO ONE ACCEPTED ME SO LET ME BE THE LAME THAT I AM AND JUST TRY TO STOP EVERYTHING BY CAPITALIZING AND EXPLOITING SOMEONES DEATH FOR HIS OWN PERSONAL POLITICAL CAMPAIGN AND BOOK SALES. STILL A LAME AFTER JOINING THE NAVY AND PLEDGING KAPPA STIL LAME

[bluemajik2000]

HERE IS THE SOLUTION:

The Divine9, lets Advicate a National Stand to STOP Hazing! By means of Commercials, Radio Ads, Magazines Etc... If we don't the Result will be what the Kappa Brother was advocating (Disband Organizations - which will not happen).

[1jshumate]

Like some of the other people said on here, there is a huge difference between Pledging and Hazing. Pledging is mental while Hazing is physical abuse.

[1jshumate]

The problem is letting someone go that far. Everyone knows what they can take and what they can take. The problem is these people are not standing up for themselves and letting these people beat the hell out of them. The people who are hazing aren't at fault, it's the ones getting hazed. No self respect or courage to stand up for self.

[ProverbTribune]

Did he seriously argue that point? Here's what I'm hearing from Rickey Jones: Organizations as historically significant as fraternities which are mostly founded on principals of scholarship, kinship and service to communities should be disbanded because of the fact that laws and rules put in place aren't effective in shifting the culture of these organizations.

This is an erroneous demonstration of misguided frustration. I blame his dean.

[mahoghanij]

It's not a black problem. It a stupid people problem. Just like Hermann Cain said (the only thing I agree with him on) "Stupid people are ruining America." Remember Pledging & Hazing are two different things, but there is a thin line b/w them.

[faireststarr]

@mahoghanij - It’s not a Black problem, it’s a generational problem. The quality of members coming into these organizations through collegiate chapters now is a reflection of society. PEOPLE are dumber; PEOPLE glorify mediocrity, simple-mindedness, and show little to no willingness to progress. That is why the one time “Talented Tenth” now looks more like a roster for Death Row Records. And the White frats are no better, they just don’t get the same publicity when they kill someone.

[mahoghanij]

Like they said it's cultural thing... Hazing is not limited to black & white... ITS EVERYBODY! All national orgs say they don't permit hazing... but that doesn't mean it's not regional.

I disagree with Professor Jones, in saying that ALL orgs need to be disbanded. Just like policies and laws are not particularly effective, neither will disbanding whole organizations. In my opinion most orgs will just comeback as underground orgs. They are absolutely incorrect in saying it is a black problem.

[YungBrilTV]

Kappas don't go through hazing... But I'm a Nupe.. And that's a dying breed unfortunately... All the Nupes in the house say Yo!

[MrTsandifer]

I am so shocked at these two brothers of D9. The guy that's apart of KAPPA ALPHA PSI FRAT INC is being a racist to his own race. This problem is not only in our Black Community it's also in the white community as well, but more so kept a secrete in the white community. Here's a fact; Whites haze more that black you don't believe me do your research. If your going to cut out organization such as band, frats and soros then you need to also cut out the military, police, fire fighter and etc.

[jlegiste5]

@MrTsandifer He is not being racist at all. As a member of a BGLO, I agree with both sides. But the Kappa makes a very interesting point. There is no way to stop it at all. I go to a PWI and the level of brutality is much higher to pledge for a BGLO. When people die, you can't justify a process.

[ThetaPhi9klub]

What people fail to realize is that there is a HUGE difference between PLEDGING and HAZING...pledging ain't dead these other bruhs just scared

[jlegiste5]

@ThetaPhi9klub As someone who has gone through a process. Its all the same. "Everything has a reason" and that talk is non-sense.

[J20cole]

@ThetaPhi9klub TOTALLY AGREE with you there is nothing wrong with knowing vital information about your org.. such as past president, what rules each president came up with what happen at certain convention, that's PLEDGING, getting your ass beat in a basement for 5 or more hours cause you didn't spit Invictus or Don't quit correct or fast enough has nothing to do with the founders of these orgs, that's HAZING..and that is why there is division in sooo many chapters

[philosophicsanity]

@3:50 YES THEY DO. I attend an HBCU but have plenty of friends at predominantly white schools and they go through just as much to be a part of an organization. Hazing is alive. I do not agree with some of the methods used for initiation purposes BUT at the same time people should know their limits.

[Deerych]

This was good dialogue and one of the few times that Roland engaged the conversation well.

[themountainzg]

Sad that ...this douche is a member of my frat

[westlake08]

i want to see the rest of this that Roland guy has it right that other guy is just stupid....

[JAREDAPE422]

Waka Flaka isn't an Alpha....

[rcmathis05]

Thank God For Roland Martin The Hazer and the Hazee are BOTH RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS and should Be Dealt with equally.

[CompleteRationality]

I agree with Roland. The other guy has taken a radical position.

[jlegiste5]

@CompleteRationality When you really think about, it is the only solution to the problem. Policies, training, or whatever you want to implement have not and will not work.

[CompleteRationality]

@jlegiste5 The solution is to instill some common sense into the students to prevent them from succumbing to peer pressure and encouraging this type of dangerous behavior. Discontinuing the band is extreme. That's like saying because people drown in pools, we should therefore close down all of the pools to solve the problem. The problem is psychological. No one in their right mind would take a meeting to join a club. People who do this are desperate to belong. (cont)

[sofisticatedstudios]

Im torn on this topic, because you should have more plp to standout and be "whistleblowers" but the reality is, it really doesnt help, I tried it, and I just was kicked from the process-simple solution by those in head..its not even about brotherhood any more, its like a gang, to get ur colors, be able to party, and be associated with the "cool crowd" u even see famous rapper, Waka Flaka being accepted into the Alphas, and he wasn't even in skool, no credit, or GPA,

[RiahJ]

@sofisticatedstudios Waka Flaka is not an Alpha. He just posed in the picture...which was tacky.

[24kane]

@RiahJ Waka Flaka didn't finish High School, so there is no way he attended college.

[RiahJ]

@24kane Right, but that isn't the point. He still posed in a picture with other members of A Phi A, and threw up their hand sign. I believe it is to this instance that @sofisticatedstudios was referring, and to which I was replying.

[terucks]

@RiahJ I know most of the A-Phi-A members wish they beat up the other members who let that dude use that sign.

[sofisticatedstudios]

I feel if you do get rid of these frats and soros..because I have family in them, and I was also going to be An Alpha-It might be good to society and our culture-because many young people only go to college just because of frats and organizations like Ques, and Kappas ect. It will just rule out those who want to be there and those who are only there just for the fun of being apart of what I now call. a gang- Im 20 yo. and I can clearly see the culture on the campus of SFA SHSU TSU PV

[RiahJ]

@sofisticatedstudios Let's get rid of athletics, honor societies, bands (of all types) and all other extra curricular activities that might be the reason a person decides to go to college, or a specific college. In fact, let's just have only one major, because if someone is only going to school to study music, architecture, chemistry (or any other thing we decide is a waste of time) - they shouldn't go there. Let college only be for those whose sole pursuit is the attainment of general knowledge

[fidget2003]

@sofisticatedstudios Believe it or not, a lot of people actually go to college to get their education not just to pledge. It's during their years in college that they see something they like and decide they want to pledge an organization. Organizations on predominantly black and predominantly white campuses have many similarities. I have attended both types of universities and saw the same culture/mentality. However, I do not agree with those orgs being called gangs.