i am well versed in it. and know islamic history. what you dont understand is that.. that golden age you speak of has come and gone. and nothing the middle east (by in large) is doing or has done in the last couple hundred years has caused any advancement. that is the issue. we are in a modern age where religion is becoming less important.
you dont need a specific religion to live a moral life. almost all human beings understand inherently that murder etc. is a bad thing.
once agian you cannot put togther any real argument. freedom does not mean limitless freedom, societies have rules that all abide by withen said system. if that system is sharia then people abide by that if the system is democracy and rule of law then people abide by that. you would have to believe that people without goverment or religion or a system to abide by are animals and inherently dont have any morals and would rape, pillage and kill eachother.
of course what you are spewing is the truth to YOU, and you can believe all that garbage just like ill believe my own opinions, the difference is i am open to debate and you are not. that is why you and islam will fail, there is something called progress and if you fail to "progress" then you will be left for the history books. also saying you will fight agianst the US is a bold statement, i hope that never comes to fruition for your sake.
once agian everyone is bias towards their own opinion if you can understand that.
and you admiting that we cannot live in peace together basically goes agianst most moderate muslims point of view on violence. so therefore from what you have stated you would be considered a radical. and if you want to die for your cause go ahead. you will lose in the long run. and wont even be around to see your "win". radicals like you bring the world down and only add to the problem.
you are fifteen? that explains a lot. your arguments make sense now. you are still a child. well let me tell you kid that shit is not as simple as it may seem to you right now and you will understand that when you are older hopefully. go to school.
@LoDGFist This is what makes me hate Americans I told you There is a difference between our education Do you want me to be like Americans?! Bars-Kill-Lie-Hate?! See the way you treat me like I was crazy Curriculum that I teach at the school are the same in England FYI I hate the Saudi government also because it is just a U.S. client And now they want to teach us the same as what Americans learn This government has no privacy Tracking the West only And the future in front of me Peace!
keep hanging onto this notion of a great ummah and the golden age return of islam, that simply will never be reality agian because this is a modern age, and in the modern age obviously islam has no place hence the issues with the most rigid supports and countrys of islam, they are all in shambles for the most part and will completely become obsolete after OIL. the key word here is OIL. the middle east is nothing without it.
and the classic response is always to blame the west. the US didnt get to where it is because it blamed anybody for anything. hence why i said the middle east and there goverments are like a bunch of little kids whineing about stupid shit. that right there seals the fate of the middle east. they simply live in the past along with the crazy notion that the religion of islam there somehow is good.
if you live in the US because your family moved here ask them why. i gurantee they will tell you that they moved here to better there lives because the middle east has not much to offer. people will always try to better there situations for the most part its human nature to have "more". if muslims are peaceful and dont try to force anything on anyone else i have no problem with that. but that is simply not the case with islam. (ive read the qu'ran)
at the end of the day religion poisons everything. and has been the cause of major conflict all thoughout humanitys time on the earth. so how could it possibly be a good thing? all religion does is divide people instead of unify them. and islam is the prime example of that.
another problem people have with islam is that it serves up this idea that it will take over the world. a lot of non believers will obviously take issue with that. and by believing in the ummah you are saying that you believe in conflict and bloodshed because that is what will come with it obviously. so you do believe in bloodshed and murder and contradicted yourself agian.
Oil is the only major export of the middle east (almost all of it) when that oil is gone and or obsolete the middle east will become obsolete.
"And Islam is not against freedom .. Freedom is not homosexuality, murder, destruction and interference in other religions"
so you believe like the nazi's did? jews are not humans.. same as gypseys and homosexuals? you just contradicted yourself. you cant say freedom is not homosexuality.. freedom is freedom to be homosexual.
the middle east by and large is very far behind the west in all sectors and always will be. there are two major reasons why, for one the religion of islam does not promote free thinking. and two, the lack of education, equality and stability in almost all regions due to the major religion.. islam. im all for the advancement of people but the middle east keeps making the same mistakes and doesnt learn from them.
if its any hint from these comments people have made, we as human beings have a very long way to go. being religous doesnt advance human thinking, it only takes away from that advancement by those that believe who are narrow minded and arrogant.
1. The middle east will remain more or less chaotic
2. After 80 years, the oil in the Middle East will run dry, and the overwhelming source of the middle-east's money & influence will be gone and the region's importance as well as Islam's influence will be diminished significatly
3. Middle-east countries will fight each other of dwindling water resources
4. The world will become increasingly secular as it progresses in & time and space
"spreading justice", "a civilization that illuminated the world". this way of trying to justify political conquest is just so Roman. think pax romana, roman roads, roman civ. carried to conquered territories. at least they really did it - i mean the romans, of course :P (and without hiding behind religion).
but i'm afraid the officers of an islamic state would rip off our tender vines because their IDEOLOGY, not CULTURE, bans anything other than sour vinegar to be made from them. the only way in which the narrative of this video is honest is in referring to islam as what it really is: a political ideology - and a supremacists one at that "an umma that was able to become the master of the world".
i feel thoroughly rooted and authentic and turkish when my father makes wine from sweet turkish grapes that we grow in the garden and it's very local, authentic, home made, UNWESTERN turkish wine, because it was made from UNWESTERN grapes. ahh, in every sip of that wine is the affirmation of my turkish+blacksea+eastern+NONWESTERN+nonconsumerist identity and CULTURE. yes, we CULTivate(culture, cultivate) vines. UNWESTERN vines.
i feel so threatened when ppl like these try to define my fegional culture for me. don't be fooled by these people, their cause is not about anti-westernism. a lot of hotels and restaurants now smirk on local turkish black olives for serving in ramadan for breaking a fast, which was how turkish ppl would traditionally do it, and instead import arabian dates because ppl think it's more islamic, because they confuse culture and religion. wanna go back to your roots? reclaim your olives!!!
i mean, look at the veiled girls in the video. even their style of veiling is not a "return" to anything, it is a fabrication of the contemporary veiling industry. there is no heroic locality here, as the historian claims is the aim of the recent islamic resurgence. if anything, contemporary islam ERASES any regional characteristics in a very puritan way and god knows where those turbans were manufactured - did somebody say prosperity??? no, that reads more like islamic bourgeoisie to me.
that historian is utterly deluded. he talks about ppl returning to their cultures. you cannot reduce a region's culture to a religion that was/is practiced in it. speaking of turkey, much of what gave asia minor its regional character, even during the ottoman (islamic state) period, was not rooted in religion. islamists in my country are deluded in thinking that they can resurrect a certain regional spirit or flavor by going back to islamic rule.
Don't understand why the ummah wants to force me to believe their truth is my truth. Your truth cannot be forced upon me. You can call me kaffir and hate me all day long and I won't care because we will fight as you would try to force it upon us. Justice upon the world? The hanging of a 16 year old girl in Iran. The stoning of women for adultery but not men. The oppression of women in Saudi Arabia? The oppresion of the rights of the good people of Iran. The Taliban and their evil ways?
Art if from everywhere. Modern Medicine also has it's roots in Islam. Europe toiled in a demonic model of disease before the Muslim world, who were far advanced in medicine introduced these sciences to the West. And the emancipation of women was also heralded by Islam, which allowed women to vote in it's inception, and were the first civilization not consider women property. Europe has advanced these ideas, but they didn't originate them.
What's from Europe? Modern Democracy is a westernized form of Shura which was introduced by Islam 1400 years ago. It was the Arabs who preserved Greek and Roman literature about Democracy and reintroduced it to Europe. Separation of religion and state was Ibn Rushd's idea, an Islamic scholar, and contemporary of Thomas Aquinas. Christianity has spread in Europe, but it's origins are also in the Middle East.
@paradisegraphics the separation of church and state is founded on aristotle's ideas and nurtured by the christian idea of "caesar's unto caesars's, god's unto god's" and "my kingdom is not of this world". whereas islam has a very platonic idea of the nature of earthly rule and power and the divine, as it merges the two and prophet mo is the ultimate "philosopher king" in a very very creepy way because at least in Plato's Republic there was recourse to persuasion though i don't like the rest.
Note how when he says we dont want to be like Europe, it cuts to a shot of a nightclub-filled street, coz thats all there is to Europe; sex, night clubs and loose women. Convenient to forget democracy, Christianity, art, medicine and emancipation of women. They are from Europe, but the Muslims would never let you know it.
Great video but where do you stand, which part of Islam Sunni, Shi'ite, etc.?
NTWJohnPershing 1 month ago
but you can never change a "true believers" opinion or way of thinking.. thats why all true believers of any religion are narrow minded...
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@LoDGFist (1-2) At first it seems you do not learn about the Muslim scholars in the Golden Age
Algorithm + Ibn al-Haytham + albairony + ibn Qurra + etc. ..
I advise you to read the Islamic history well
As for freedom .. If we say that there are no limits to freedom
This means that there is no problem with murder .. No problem with hatred
Freedom has its limits.. Future ahead of us .. And we all live in.
Or die and you will know our fate after death in that time =)
Peace be upon you
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
i am well versed in it. and know islamic history. what you dont understand is that.. that golden age you speak of has come and gone. and nothing the middle east (by in large) is doing or has done in the last couple hundred years has caused any advancement. that is the issue. we are in a modern age where religion is becoming less important.
you dont need a specific religion to live a moral life. almost all human beings understand inherently that murder etc. is a bad thing.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@LoDGFist Do you mean that religion is not important?! I want to tell you something
Islam did not come for people to live! Islam came in order to teach them what happens after death
Why do they need to do in order that the problems do not catch them after death
In order to teach them that what happened with religions before them .. Why do other religions have changed
Not Islam that makes you believe him forcibly .. He will tell you and the future will tell whether it is genuine or not
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@LoDGFist The golden age of Islam We Muslims are the reason for the lack of it now
Now the enemies of Islam many of whom the US.government and the Israeli government and Freemasonry
Many of the organizations and channels are attacking Islam now
Because it does not comply with their thinking They believe that freedom without limits
Not a problem that caused the religions No problem that caused the people who believe in something
This is an assault on our freedom Freedom is partly admissible
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@LoDGFist Muslims at the time of Caliph had been living a life without problems
But after that ended the Caliph became Muslims in many of the problems
See in Egypt, they say: We apply the democracy
And people did not adapt to it Many children were Bastards
People are always in need of a deterrent Especially since the community was in it more than one religion or one-party
On the time of Caliph were encouraging scientists ..
now they Fighting them .. Because America does not want it
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
once agian you cannot put togther any real argument. freedom does not mean limitless freedom, societies have rules that all abide by withen said system. if that system is sharia then people abide by that if the system is democracy and rule of law then people abide by that. you would have to believe that people without goverment or religion or a system to abide by are animals and inherently dont have any morals and would rape, pillage and kill eachother.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@LoDGFist Frankly, I think if people lived without a government such as the U.S. government would be no problems
Even if they killed each other .. Situation will be better than living with the U.S. government
Life is hard .. Life easy .. This is not a reason to leave your country: \
After that the oil will not remain in the Middle East .. America will try to end Islam ..
Then I am ready to fight against America until the last drop of my blood ..
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@LoDGFist I go back and tell you The caliph will return =) all religions can not cope with this age
But Islam can and easily! What is the thing that is contrary to Islam in the development?!
Nothing!!! You only see that development is freedom!! No, my friend Science and work
This is the most important We can do it as we did before
Shari'a is the justice in my opinion Killer kill him Robber cut off his hand
in my view Even though not everyone will agree with me This is the truth
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
of course what you are spewing is the truth to YOU, and you can believe all that garbage just like ill believe my own opinions, the difference is i am open to debate and you are not. that is why you and islam will fail, there is something called progress and if you fail to "progress" then you will be left for the history books. also saying you will fight agianst the US is a bold statement, i hope that never comes to fruition for your sake.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@LoDGFist This is what you always say about us .. This is very boring ..
I'm not mistaken .. This is the truth =)
We and you can not live in one world in peace
Peace!!!
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
once agian everyone is bias towards their own opinion if you can understand that.
and you admiting that we cannot live in peace together basically goes agianst most moderate muslims point of view on violence. so therefore from what you have stated you would be considered a radical. and if you want to die for your cause go ahead. you will lose in the long run. and wont even be around to see your "win". radicals like you bring the world down and only add to the problem.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
i can live in peace with you. if you cant live in peace with me then you will die. pretty simple. there is no radical majority.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@LoDGFist Give me my dignity and all those who died because of you ..
Do not meddle in our country .. Do not know you and you do not know us
Do not interfere in our religion .. We live in our land .. And you live in your land
Not between us and you any relationships
This is the only solution for peace
Anyway .. I did not ask your opinion on my religion =)
I am 15 now .. Therefore I can not do anything!
Peace!
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
you are fifteen? that explains a lot. your arguments make sense now. you are still a child. well let me tell you kid that shit is not as simple as it may seem to you right now and you will understand that when you are older hopefully. go to school.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@LoDGFist
1 - holiday in Saudi Arabia, Thursday and Friday .. No school today =)
2 - I understand everything .. I'm convinced everything I have said
3 - your words mean that you are trying to make me surrender to your country XD
There is a difference between our education .. So you do not understand my thinking
I repeat .. Future in front of me ..
Peace!!
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
its good to know that you are learning hate in school, in saudi arabia.
in the us schools they dont teach hate.
im not trying to make you surrender to anything i was just pointing out the simple minded ignorant points you made.
you are 15 so obviously you dont know much about anything except what garbage apparantly they are teaching in your schools.
i feel sorry for you.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
there is no arguing with the religous insane.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@LoDGFist Finally When the first Caliph of the Muslims became the Caliph Kings of the Romans and the Persians laughed it
They said Arabs idiots They want to be the Kingdom of Islam And when there were battles of Yarmouk and Qadisiyah
You know who finally laughed And developed the Muslims themselves They did not leave Islam!
Not like the current development But scientists have built the science After them came others, and built the science
Time changed And Islam will remain to the last moment
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
keep hanging onto this notion of a great ummah and the golden age return of islam, that simply will never be reality agian because this is a modern age, and in the modern age obviously islam has no place hence the issues with the most rigid supports and countrys of islam, they are all in shambles for the most part and will completely become obsolete after OIL. the key word here is OIL. the middle east is nothing without it.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
and the classic response is always to blame the west. the US didnt get to where it is because it blamed anybody for anything. hence why i said the middle east and there goverments are like a bunch of little kids whineing about stupid shit. that right there seals the fate of the middle east. they simply live in the past along with the crazy notion that the religion of islam there somehow is good.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
if you live in the US because your family moved here ask them why. i gurantee they will tell you that they moved here to better there lives because the middle east has not much to offer. people will always try to better there situations for the most part its human nature to have "more". if muslims are peaceful and dont try to force anything on anyone else i have no problem with that. but that is simply not the case with islam. (ive read the qu'ran)
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
at the end of the day religion poisons everything. and has been the cause of major conflict all thoughout humanitys time on the earth. so how could it possibly be a good thing? all religion does is divide people instead of unify them. and islam is the prime example of that.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@LoDGFist this is the freedom of USA !!
watch?v=n7_IKnh3MvA
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
another problem people have with islam is that it serves up this idea that it will take over the world. a lot of non believers will obviously take issue with that. and by believing in the ummah you are saying that you believe in conflict and bloodshed because that is what will come with it obviously. so you do believe in bloodshed and murder and contradicted yourself agian.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@LoDGFist and sorry .. my english is bad ^^"
peace ♥
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
Also, why Islam will fail
1. Free societies are the most economically powerful, Islam is anti-freedom
2. Islam seeks to conquer, but conquest has never & will never unify
3. Islam can't agree amongst itself & is deeply, deeply divided
4. Islam's major source of power now is OIL. Once the oil is gone, no one will pay attention to it.
underriot 1 year ago
@underriot Oil is a global problem and not only Muslims who will have problems
Western governments do not allow the industry in Muslim countries
And Islam is not against freedom .. Freedom is not homosexuality, murder, destruction and interference in other religions
Freedom is the freedom of opinion which are not inconsistent with respect for all
Now in the world a lot of hatred for what
Because each person insulting the other person He says this freedom
NaRuToLeGnD1414 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
Oil is the only major export of the middle east (almost all of it) when that oil is gone and or obsolete the middle east will become obsolete.
"And Islam is not against freedom .. Freedom is not homosexuality, murder, destruction and interference in other religions"
so you believe like the nazi's did? jews are not humans.. same as gypseys and homosexuals? you just contradicted yourself. you cant say freedom is not homosexuality.. freedom is freedom to be homosexual.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
@NaRuToLeGnD1414
the middle east by and large is very far behind the west in all sectors and always will be. there are two major reasons why, for one the religion of islam does not promote free thinking. and two, the lack of education, equality and stability in almost all regions due to the major religion.. islam. im all for the advancement of people but the middle east keeps making the same mistakes and doesnt learn from them.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
if its any hint from these comments people have made, we as human beings have a very long way to go. being religous doesnt advance human thinking, it only takes away from that advancement by those that believe who are narrow minded and arrogant.
LoDGFist 1 year ago
Correction: Events will go like this
1. The middle east will remain more or less chaotic
2. After 80 years, the oil in the Middle East will run dry, and the overwhelming source of the middle-east's money & influence will be gone and the region's importance as well as Islam's influence will be diminished significatly
3. Middle-east countries will fight each other of dwindling water resources
4. The world will become increasingly secular as it progresses in & time and space
underriot 1 year ago
if you want to win this world,find some knowledge.
if you want to win the heaven,find some knowledge.
if you want both,find some knowledge.
this is the reason why islamic state fall.because we dont learn the lesson from them.god bless you insyaallah
aredbunk88 1 year ago
I love islaaaaam
MrAbuqutada 1 year ago
Islam has definitely taken over Berlin...
HerrSpieldose 1 year ago
@HerrSpieldose yes, this is God´s chosen religion.
burak3003 1 year ago
Comment removed
LOLWUT2010 1 year ago
"spreading justice", "a civilization that illuminated the world". this way of trying to justify political conquest is just so Roman. think pax romana, roman roads, roman civ. carried to conquered territories. at least they really did it - i mean the romans, of course :P (and without hiding behind religion).
frostmaiden85 1 year ago
but i'm afraid the officers of an islamic state would rip off our tender vines because their IDEOLOGY, not CULTURE, bans anything other than sour vinegar to be made from them. the only way in which the narrative of this video is honest is in referring to islam as what it really is: a political ideology - and a supremacists one at that "an umma that was able to become the master of the world".
frostmaiden85 1 year ago
i feel thoroughly rooted and authentic and turkish when my father makes wine from sweet turkish grapes that we grow in the garden and it's very local, authentic, home made, UNWESTERN turkish wine, because it was made from UNWESTERN grapes. ahh, in every sip of that wine is the affirmation of my turkish+blacksea+eastern+NONWESTERN+nonconsumerist identity and CULTURE. yes, we CULTivate(culture, cultivate) vines. UNWESTERN vines.
frostmaiden85 1 year ago
i feel so threatened when ppl like these try to define my fegional culture for me. don't be fooled by these people, their cause is not about anti-westernism. a lot of hotels and restaurants now smirk on local turkish black olives for serving in ramadan for breaking a fast, which was how turkish ppl would traditionally do it, and instead import arabian dates because ppl think it's more islamic, because they confuse culture and religion. wanna go back to your roots? reclaim your olives!!!
frostmaiden85 1 year ago
i mean, look at the veiled girls in the video. even their style of veiling is not a "return" to anything, it is a fabrication of the contemporary veiling industry. there is no heroic locality here, as the historian claims is the aim of the recent islamic resurgence. if anything, contemporary islam ERASES any regional characteristics in a very puritan way and god knows where those turbans were manufactured - did somebody say prosperity??? no, that reads more like islamic bourgeoisie to me.
frostmaiden85 1 year ago
that historian is utterly deluded. he talks about ppl returning to their cultures. you cannot reduce a region's culture to a religion that was/is practiced in it. speaking of turkey, much of what gave asia minor its regional character, even during the ottoman (islamic state) period, was not rooted in religion. islamists in my country are deluded in thinking that they can resurrect a certain regional spirit or flavor by going back to islamic rule.
frostmaiden85 1 year ago
Oh No, The rise of the Devil is here! Run, run, to the caves.!
mrblurblur2003 1 year ago
@mrblurblur2003 can;t wait :D
LOLWUT2010 1 year ago
Don't understand why the ummah wants to force me to believe their truth is my truth. Your truth cannot be forced upon me. You can call me kaffir and hate me all day long and I won't care because we will fight as you would try to force it upon us. Justice upon the world? The hanging of a 16 year old girl in Iran. The stoning of women for adultery but not men. The oppression of women in Saudi Arabia? The oppresion of the rights of the good people of Iran. The Taliban and their evil ways?
ahmaddinejungilvez 1 year ago
Art if from everywhere. Modern Medicine also has it's roots in Islam. Europe toiled in a demonic model of disease before the Muslim world, who were far advanced in medicine introduced these sciences to the West. And the emancipation of women was also heralded by Islam, which allowed women to vote in it's inception, and were the first civilization not consider women property. Europe has advanced these ideas, but they didn't originate them.
paradisegraphics 2 years ago
@paradisegraphics thats true
but lets not be stuck in the Islamic golden age, u guys have not made much since then...lets be honest
true u were superior to the Europeans, that's was a millennial ago...I would really like to see u get there again, so u can stop immigrating here
peace
Blu3Lead3r 2 years ago
@Blu3Lead3r if they were superior to us they might nuke us lol off the planet til there are no more non muslims
38azn 1 year ago
@Blu3Lead3r
give us 10 years, things are stirring, in countries like lebanon, egypt,libya,yemen,somalia
revolutions are occuring,
i, the reason we failed to keep going because europ leaders established puppets in the muslim world, emplmenting the agenda of the west
TahaJomha 1 year ago
What's from Europe? Modern Democracy is a westernized form of Shura which was introduced by Islam 1400 years ago. It was the Arabs who preserved Greek and Roman literature about Democracy and reintroduced it to Europe. Separation of religion and state was Ibn Rushd's idea, an Islamic scholar, and contemporary of Thomas Aquinas. Christianity has spread in Europe, but it's origins are also in the Middle East.
paradisegraphics 2 years ago
@paradisegraphics the separation of church and state is founded on aristotle's ideas and nurtured by the christian idea of "caesar's unto caesars's, god's unto god's" and "my kingdom is not of this world". whereas islam has a very platonic idea of the nature of earthly rule and power and the divine, as it merges the two and prophet mo is the ultimate "philosopher king" in a very very creepy way because at least in Plato's Republic there was recourse to persuasion though i don't like the rest.
frostmaiden85 1 year ago
Note how when he says we dont want to be like Europe, it cuts to a shot of a nightclub-filled street, coz thats all there is to Europe; sex, night clubs and loose women. Convenient to forget democracy, Christianity, art, medicine and emancipation of women. They are from Europe, but the Muslims would never let you know it.
puffinstuffsmum 2 years ago
Islam is the ultimate truth!
LOCKMANakaAC 2 years ago
@puffinstuffsmum i couldn't agree more, but i think a self-destructive "new left" attitude is also to blame for that.
frostmaiden85 1 year ago