Ruby on Rails vs .NET - Commercial #5 of 9

[jcandreug]

Let me know when u can use something better than Visual Studio for ruby..

PS: .Net Framework is free, VS Express is FREE, If u are on a team u gotta pay for a better tool and source control, but if u code at home u can just use VS Express (its the free version and its still better than any other IDE)

U can be the best carpenter on the world but without tools u will get nowhere, or if u could it will take more time..

[moveaxebx]

@jcandreug

We don't use RoR, but pure Python or Python with Django for faster pace developement.

Larger projects usually end on Java technologies for which we mostly use NetBeans.

For all the rest, developers use terminals and VIM/EMACS editor with bunch of plugins and usual dev. tools on Linux.

Productivity doesn't depend on IDE, since we do make unit tests and code written is very modular and tested. Also developers are very experienced so bugs are pretty rare.

[jcandreug]

@moveaxebx There are bugs, the thing is u cant see them :)

And I hope u understand the difference between a web site != web application with business logic..

[moveaxebx]

@jcandreug

Start conducting tests, bugs will be rare and very visible. They do take some time to write but are priceless later on when maintaining the codebase.

Web Application is kind of a buzz word meaning dynamic WEB PAGES which feels like usual desktop APPLICATIONS.

[teft90]

well... opensource doesn't mean completly free as in a free beer dude :/

[knugie]

RoR is great. So why do guys make everyone else hate it?

[izvarzone]

@knugie because Wordpress and Joomla run on PHP, no one want to learn something new.

[jf03cg]

Ah, the open sourcies... The we'd rather pay two guys more money to spend more time to do the same thing you can do with VS/.NET/Windows, but how dare you make us pay $2,000 in license fees! $2,000 is about 2 weeks of work of a junior programmer. If your language takes and operating system takes longer than 2 weeks to learn, deploy and modify during the lifetime of the project, then you've chewed up your precious "saved license fees" ... The cost of license is a small determiner of TCO people!!!

[nochemistry]

@jf03cg Good attitude sir! If you taking it in the ass you might as well learn to like it

[Kalemine1]

First one of those commercial that actually make sense. Yeah, .NET is pretty costy, and you need to Visual Studio + Resharper. But its also a really confortable environnement to program in (love LINQ), and most enterprise have already a few Windows Server Licence lying around. Plus it integrate incredibly well with other MS tech like Office. I wouldn't make the next Twitter on top of it, but an Intranet, sure.

[moveaxebx]

Does it run on Linux? No?

Then please, just move along. No mono BS..it's not 100% .net anyway.

I want something that doesn't depend on one company and since Linux is becoming a mainstream in datacenters it must support it.

[lanswipe]

what with the "whops" is that a meme or something?

[MikeyHogarth]

Playing devils advocate for a minute - if you are required to hook into an ancient legacy system, where the database already exists, RoR fails absolutely miserably as the framework of choice. In many ways it's lovely, but lets just admit that there are times when it's perfect for the job and other times where another framework is more appropriate.

[ygorth]

Ruby on Rails and NET both are awesome.

I prefer .NET for my career.

[MrDumaju]

@jamierumbelow It just bores me how people get caught up over this "which framework/language is better" crap because they all have uses. I wouldn't use assembly to write a web app (I smell a challenge) in the same way I wouldn't write a 3D shading engine in Python (I smell another challenge).

[kurrator2]

@MrDumaju Agree, but there are tools for the same job with equal performance and usability. M$ tools are simply more expensive and require another paid technologies (MSSQL, MS Win Server). RoR wins anyway.

[MrDumaju]

@kurrator2 No, I think there is quite a difference in performance gains. Sure, the money offsets it but this brings us back round to: none is superior and the fact videos are being made like this and people are saying "WOO RAILS ROOOOLZ .NET DROOOLZ" simply shows that said people don't love to code, they love the crowd.

If you were a good programmer, you wouldn't complain at the tools you have because that wouldn't matter. You can do marvellous things with any tool you wield.

[MrDumaju]

@jamierumbelow Exactly, there are many examples of both being used in a commercial, high-scale environment so it's stupid to discount one for the other because both have their merits and drawbacks.

My core point anyway: it's what you do with a framework and going all fanboy over it doesn't do you any favours. Ruby on Rails is fun to use and so are many other frameworks, but at any expense I'd gladly use something else. It's not about fighting a war - it's about learning and the experience.

[MrDumaju]

This video is slightly misleading in which it doesn't consider the performance of RoR. Ruby is historically known to be quite heavy and massive abstractions built on top of that can't make it any more efficient.

If you guys have read Joel Spolsky's account on why he choose a WISC stack over other open sources technologies is because it is fast. The price comes into its own since StackOverflow was servings millions of hits with approx. 2 servers. I'm not sure if RoR can do the same.

[jamierumbelow]

@MrDumaju Ruby on Rails is pretty clunky, and Ruby itself isn't the fastest language in the world, but it has been proven to scale effectively. Twitter may have its issues but it still runs fine the majority of the time, and they've got constantly high traffic. Basecamp and the 37Signals set of applications run brilliantly, not to mention the thousands of startups using Rails and serving millions of page hits.

In my experience, speed bottlenecks are in the App code or the DB, not the framework.

[digitalis3]

If dev tool & OS cost matters to you then you aren't making much money anyway. And let's not forget RoR isn't going to make your payroll & hardware costs go down.

[tropicallanterns]

Whoops lol!

[derekjvb]

I love how all the .NET developers can't take a joke

[dgoponciano]

@derekjvb I'm a .NET developer myself and I lol'ed :)

actually, the video is kinda true => dev in ruby is cheaper than in .NET (i'm learning ruby)

I just happen to like .NET more, as of now. Maybe I change my mind :)

[derekjvb]

@dgoponciano okay cool! :) I'm actually both a .NET C# developer and also a Ruby developer although I personally prefer Ruby but I realize that both have advantages and disadvantages. I wish you luck as you learn more Ruby! :)

[Biel32532532524]

Well, the fact is that the best language / framework is the one we know better. Comparisons are useless because they usually only reflect a personal preference or are used by companies to mislead a customer. Videos Ruby on Rails vs Any other language uses stereotypes that oversimplify reality or states facts that are not true.

[shaffersh1]

Hey, the guy on the left makes twice as much as the guy on the right. Sorry Ruby. You lose...

[Luiji99]

Open source doesn't mean free. It is common and accepted to have a distribution fee. Even RMS used to do that.

[Evange]

Open source != free

[NoMemory]

open source doesn't mean "free of cost". educate yourself.

[jcandreug]

Yea, Ruby vs .Net and all they talk is about Microsoft not about the .Net platform it self.. RUBY learn and they make videos.. .Net is hundred times superior to ruby, we have Parallel Programming, WPF, WF, WCF, Entity Framework, LINQ, PLINQ, Parallel Computing Classes, Lamda Expressions, Peer-to-peer networking stack, Code Contracts, ETC!!! :)

[moveaxebx]

@jcandreug

Wow, you sure can count, but don't see the difference between framework and language.

Lamda expressions? Dude, Ruby had lamdas before you were born.

WPF??? How is that part of the web framework?

WCF? Since when WebServices are common only for .NET???

This my people, is an average .NET "programmer"...can toss a lot of bullshit and doesn't know what they mean.

[jcandreug]

@moveaxebx I can say u r a developer, not a project leader, and u will never be one. U will be stock as a programmer ur whole life. And YES I love writing code, and I can do it all my life, BUT its not gonna work if u want to be a better professional.

Why? cuz have to know that using a framework comes with different thinks, like platforms, languages, libraries, IDEs, testing suites,documentation ETC, Thats why I chose .Net, because it gives me the best tools available (at the moment).

[moveaxebx]

@jcandreug

Let's ask google if they use Visual Studio and .NET, shell we?

Let's see if they are professionals. Is YouTube wirtten in .NET?

All things you mentioned do exist outside Microsoft and .NET. It's that people usually don't know anything outside the Windows box, so they swallow everything MS throws at them.

Yes, I'm a programmer and we have huge Linux clusters spinning Java/Python/C++ applications...all works great because we have a great but small team of developers.

[jcandreug]

@moveaxebx I lost the comment, youtube didnt post what i wrote... maybe youtube is writen in ruby...

[jcandreug]

@moveaxebx Ok, im gonna write it again, but briefly. I Code in C++ and Java for my personal projects and .Net for business applications and for customer's projects. Thats the best method ive found at the moment..

[jcandreug]

@moveaxebx Search for The Computer Language Benchmarks Game and check out the benchmarks..

[moveaxebx]

@jcandreug

benchmarks is just one aspect of the package and usually in the business/crud apps. not much of a deal.

Sure, C is fast as hell...but will throw more bugs then Java, etc.

[jcandreug]

@moveaxebx Indeed, bugs on C/C++ are a pain.. And we ended talkin about Java and Python!! this was discussion about RoR and .Net xD

What I wanted to say is, X language can be the super awesome most innovative thing, but if Z can do the same, and faster, etc. U will go with Z, its obvious that there are some situations that u can go with X because u have the "freedom" to do it better, but again, sometimes u just need to finish that app , and go home with ur family.

[jcandreug]

@moveaxebx And NO, benchmarks are very important even in Bussines Apps. For example the one im workin at the moment, we work with a DDBB of hundreds of tables and millions of entries. I wanna see RoR workin on it. :P

[moveaxebx]

@jcandreug

RoR is web framework, not DB or DBMS. Consider OracleDB for very large DBs, since they are practically untouchable.

If ugly PHP does well on FaceBook, I'm sure much cleaner Ruby or Python will do for 99% of business needs.

And yes, we do have large DBs and good DBAs that can shorten the query time with good ER design and vertical scale.

[jcandreug]

@moveaxebx Consider now the MsSql ,Net and Windows Server integration,, thats a plus.

Php ? Tell me why php is "translating" its code to C++? search for hiphop

If u do all the BL on the DDBB (with Oracle for example) what will u use RoR for? just presentation?

And yes, ruby is very scalable thats true.

[catalinaguerrero]

fact is, .net is heavily used in production software (for example by financial institutions) while ruby on rails is only used to build silly blog sites/forums.

[n5jrn]

Dumb. First, .NET isn't a web framework, ASP.NET is. Second, both .NET and ASP.NET do have an open source version (google "mono project" some time).

[n5jrn]

Except that .NET can be open source as well. I'm hosting an ASP.NET site under Linux.

Google "Mono project" for more info.

[n5jrn]

Except that .NET can be open source as well. I'm hosting an ASP.NET site under Linux.

[glock22ownr]

Someone should make a commercial about Ruby scalability... Hi, I'm Ruby on Rails, BOOM! Webapp didn't scale...

[catalinaguerrero]

@glock22ownr lol so true, although in all fairness most of other frameworks, for instance django, suffer from the same problem. IMHO the developers doing those frameworks come from the web 2.0 world, i.e. they are interested in build blogs, poll sites and forums, but not in building industrial strength, robust, 7/24 availability software.

[fox220]

@glock22ownr hi, I've been involved in a few ruby startups in my time, you're right performance is its weak point, but it CAN scale... kind of... we ended up back-ending scala for our queuing system. I think ruby has a very firm place as a flexible, rapid development framework, and as those sites grow, in the chance you are the one in ten thousand sites that needs to think seriously about scalability, you'll have the resources to deal with it then.

[cplusplus84]

Upgrades are free. Expansions are not.

[dimmy1334]

.net is really good for many things, Ruby isn't that good just because it is open source, it's like hunting for a low hit.

[pfunk420d]

Nerds!!!!

[LAnonHubbard]

These Ruby on Rails guys are fucktard Mac users who want an equally simple and cripples web application language.

[ZerqTM]

MONO!!!!!!!

ITS FUCKING FREE! ITS FUCKING OPEN SOUCE! IT KICKS ASS!

SUCK IT Ruby on rails! X3

[noclipus5]

Try to FUCKING use it for REAL project and you`ll see how much Mono sucks ;-)

[HCHalst]

I don't get about danish guy? what danish guy?

[Etcher]

Rails was invented by a danish guy. David Handjob Handsome.

[xdarkfirex]

@HCHalst DHH the creator of ror classic whoops from first screencast of create a blog in 15 minutes.

[warlord90210]

There's a video here on Youtube that has it, just look for Ruby on Rails Tutorial and you'll see a screencast about Ruby on Rails that guy says WHOOPS every 5 seconds.

[videonikita]

Ruby guy is way too geeky/annoying. This is like the third commercial I'm watching him in and he annoys me.

Booze thing is funny though.

[mastermike2580]

idk if Ruby on Rails is so good then how come there are not many devs and how come most projects are coded in PHP???????

[noclipus5]

Are they?

[svtmattUT]

What happens when saphire on tracks comes along and renders ruby obsolete?

[ShermerIllinois]

"Woops! "... ROFL XD

[atonix90]

danish guy, woops =)

[ZerqTM]

Lol danish guy :3

[AKatawazi2]

Oh snap ruby, you got the MVC Framework all up in your business. Thats what you get for trying to be better than us >:)

[ractheworld]

I coincidentally played a metallica title simultaneously with the video, here what i got:

"Hi im Ruby On Rails"

"So fucking what"

[danielsmic]

Nice. Ruby on rails doesn't even need a computer to run on...Cool!

Fun PSA.

[GLeNss]

The guy on the left scares me

[ZerqTM]

one word MONO!!!!!

and visual studio express... :)

Damn it i which i could find something half as good as Visual studio in ubuntu...

[Lilinye]

Eclipse > VS

[ZerqTM]

spoken like one who has never truly worked with visual studio.

i've used both and frankly most eclipse versions are crap.

visual studio is miles ahead.

Microsoft does 2 things good when they try.

IDEs and frameworks... as for everything else they do.... well..... the less said the better..

ok grudginly one has to admit there largely responsible for the general avalability of user friendly computers in every household..

(even though the stole most of the ideas)

[AKatawazi2]

Have you lost your mind? Seriously?

[magikk]

@Lilinye Yes. If you just got a lobotomy.

[Christobanistan]

@Lilinye Wow, you've never used Visual Studio, have you? It's a fucking revelation. NOONE does IDEs better than Microsoft nowadays, NOONE. Do yourself a favor and download the VS2010 Express edition, it's free. And if you're a professional, get Resharper which extends it. The combination is programming nirvana.

[Lilinye]

@Christobanistan Why should I download VS Express when I have VS professional and it sucks. Eclipse is better, but I should have also pointed out that if a language or framework needs an IDE it is poorly designed. An IDE mainly exists to overcome limitations in the language.

[mcl7cdm]

@Lilinye ahhahaha :D That's the best joke I've read recently :D

[moveaxebx]

@Christobanistan

Using Ruby or Python in VS is a sin.

No one needs heavy VS, vim or emacs will suffice for a good programmer.

[evildnalor]

Don't forget moonlight.

[siriguillo]

WOW, you are an ignorant but you think you know a lot, funny

[echousu]

haahhaahah, great!!!!

[HeadFirstCrew]

hahaha woops! DHH in the background! haha nice!

[Oboema6]

0:16 "Well, you get what you pay for"

whahaaha x)

[linuxdude1]

Personally, I like the "ROR" ads! I really like this one! While I don't know anything about the ruby on rails framework, I do know that Ruby is a very powerful, and elegant language!

I am just beginning to learn Ruby as a first language! One of the best features of ruby is its clean syntax and it's pure Object Oriented approach to coding!

P.S., sorry for double posting, I accidentally posted before complete!

[linuxdude1]

Personally, I like the "ROR" ads! I really like this one! While I don't know anything about the ruby on rails framework, I do know that Ruby is a very powerful, and elegant language!

I am just beginning to learn Ruby as a first language! One of the best features of

[z2gen]

Wow free? Can I go see my doctor for Free?

[savedr]

Sure, you could! Just as long as you're not an American citizen.

[yogods]

This ruby ads sucks!

[nexus2xl]

whoops!

[Mikel4321]

Open source = Freedom, not freebear, dumbasses lol.

[Shadowdncer]

But... but... I want a free bear!

dumbass lol :-/

[artzor]

I wanna free bear too! And balalaika, please!

[disturbedHR]

New ms bear is out?

[effected51]

bear?

[tuuvana]

the great algorithm is the most important no ruby or python before learn math and english ;)

[piojosnos]

Microsoft Sucks... but... ruby also sucks. Their marketing is getting so low and lacking of all kind of dignity... good work guys keep doing this commercials, they are very helpful for the "ruby sucks" people :-)

[Shadowdncer]

Ruby is NOT Rails. Rails may suck donkey-behind, but Ruby as a language is pretty decent.

[diegoev]

Microsoft sucks

[BiHtrooper]

what ignorance... take a look at monoproject

[korayem]

LAME

Open-source is just a different model. Selling software is a good model too...you can't absolutely say which is better.

I worked on some python web projects, and it took me a lot of time to understand anything about the framework due to very poor documentation...you don't get bad docs in priced products...and in a world where sometimes you can't just wait to ask someone in the community because you have a deadline and a boss on your back, priced products are better.

[fox220]

you don't get bad docs in priced products? wow... you have NEVER used MSDN then... that thing is a horrible mess, admittedly 10 times worse a few years ago though...

and as for asking people in a community vs trying to get your problem solved by the companies tech support? Try MS tech support and discover they often know less than you do about their own product.

[magikk]

.NET kills. Comparing it to ruby is like comparing a Maybach to an Acura. Yes they have 4 wheels but they're not exactly in the same class.

[izvarzone]

@fox220 made by Microsoft? Then I no wonder.

[lloydgam]

right on spot - Philippines

[Dx2x]

.NET sucks.

[Christobanistan]

@Dx2x In what way? As far as I can tell it's (one of?) the best designed, most feature rich, and the easiest to use programming environment environments ever created. And the fact that one it's supported by hands down the best IDE on the planet (Visual Studio), I can't imagine what would make you claim that it 'sucks.'

[funnylutefisk]

Too bad rails is the slowest language on all the speed tests other wise I would use it.

[wulffeld]

WHOOPS! lol

[cbmeeks]

man, those guys rock. but I lost it when the "whoops" happened....classic.

[squiggey]

That "whops" is starting to become a classic :)

[mamelouk69]

what does it refer to ?

[bebby5]

great fun. loved it......

[vengfulsoul123]

Awsome!

[AviFlombaum]

Awesome!