I Claudius episode 12 (3/6) "Old King Log"

[cleander180]

I know Severus reestablished the guard and didn't slaughter them - he could have done so.

[cleander180]

Robert Graves' fictional characterization of Claudius as an essentially benign man with a keen intelligence has tended to dominate the wider public's view of this emperor. Close study of the sources, however, reveals a somewhat different kind of man. In addition to his scholarly and cautious nature, he had a cruel streak, as suggested by his addiction to gladiatorial games and his fondness for watching his defeated opponents executed.

[SleepWhenIamDead]

...omg, Nero is SO fond of Octavia.....I can tell...

[Soundfrequency]

Congratulations Britannicus, for ruining everything ever.

[Soundfrequency]

I love how Claudius winds up Agrippina. :D

[redbayly]

i think Claudius knows what Agripinilla is about to say because he has seen all the political scheming of the women he's known, it's always the same things: marry this child to that, adopt my son as your heir, etc.

[speedevasion]

funny thing is the ancestors of the english (germanic tribes) were the real destroyers and conquerors of celtic bretons

[Jemimia]

Qou vadis-moment at 0:33

[antoninus138]

Claudius was not a republican. When Caligula was assasinated the senate restored the republic for 48 hours. But through the Preatorian Guards Claudius killed the republic and the liberators. The problem was that the senate had no army. It was helpless. As for blunting the sword of monarchy Claudius killed many senators and was never seen as a good ruler like Nerva or Trajanus.

[kybelian]

@antoninus138 He like Augustus was a 'Republican at heart.' This is well established in any reading of Roman history as the Empire is a convenient invention of modern opinionists. In this depiction as well as others, 'Emperors often lament the loss of the Republic but all of its forms and offices were keep intact only the Senate awarded these Executive powers within the First Citizen or Princep. Look for parallels in the USA and how Congress has concentrated Imperial Power to the President.

[kybelian]

@antoninus138 This I Claudius is great TV despite your minute criticisms. Sure. its a TV series. How can it be absolutely accurate in the time constraints? There are things I dont like in it like the overimportance of Herod Agrippa. However its the sort of TV which can inspire viewers to take a deeper interest in these studies and do their own research. Its better than any attempt made at historical drama by the USA.

[antoninus138]

@kybelian I like all up to the acession of Claudius and the farce of his pretended reluctance - as I have stated he personally used the Praetorian guard - gave the first donative - to crush the re-established republic. The senators assembled not in the curia julia but elsewhere and cursed the caesers. But without an army only a real republican Claudius would have saved them. BTW Claudius was completely under the thumb of his wives and 'his' ideas were those of his freedmen - pallas and narcissus

[kybelian]

@antoninus138 Once Augustus assumed autocratic power it was not going to be returned to the Senate. As Claudius did not create the Praetorian Guard he was not the first to use them. The question of Claudius being 'under the thumb' of his wives could be anti-Claudian propaganda and does not take into account the peculiarity of Latin Matriarchy. For example, the Julian claim to be descended from VENUS. As well as the Aeneas story of being a Son of VENUS.

[kybelian]

@antoninus138 Augustus concentrated various powers within himself but was still a Republican at heart. Marcus Aurelius was the same and is depicted as lamenting the Republic in "The Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire" and "Gladiator." Look for parallels in the USA. How has the Office of the Presidency evolved since the Farewell Address by George Washington? What body has given the President Imperial Power? The US Senate? So maybe this TV show also has critiques of Republics like the USA?

[antoninus138]

@kybelian re US. I agree that the imperial presidency is a fact. But the first author of such unconstitutionalism was the deified Lincoln. A fact people like to ignore because of the slavery side issue.

[kybelian]

@antoninus138 The Neo-Confederates love to beat up on Lincoln usually because of the slavery issue but the imperial presidency has its origins with Andrew Jackson and James Polk. Lincoln was required to engage a broader scope of the Commander-in-Chief role due to the rebellion by the secessionists. The primary reason for the anti-Lincoln sentiment is due to the expansion of Constitutional Rights not the contraction of it.

[cleander180]

@kybelian Absolute rubbish. The anti-Lincoln sentiment comes from seeing a man who trashed the constitution- illegaly suspending habeus corpus etc- and has his picture in every school; he was an evil tyrant - the states DID have the right to seceed as Jefferson as president noted when parts of New England wished to. If you think slavery was the cause of the war you are deluded - Lincoln is on record as saying that he wanted to deport blacks and deny them the same status as white men.

[kybelian]

@antoninus138 In other words, Give the People the Vote and they will eventually elect a Tyrant or Dictator. The best of these are they who keep the offices of the Republic they replace. So that the US Govt. addresses itself as 'The People' when the truth is something very different and Corporate.

[Timrath]

Why did Claudius marry her if he knew how bad she was? Did he want to punish himself for something?

[antoninus138]

Really - I have been too benevelent! - what rot. He was a tyrant. There is no evidence Claudius had a scheme to send Britannicus to Britain. Graves was after money and Claudius the God was nonsense as is this.

[frtw4428]

Wonderful segment around 0:25-0:35 where Claudius writes about Agripinilla and Nero being loathesome and slimy (and their expressions afterwards!). He deliberately left that wrtiing there just for them to read and piss them off! Hilarious!

[heavy21metal]

It seems the voices are not combining with the characters.

[Bez1960]

very funny though...the men are speaking in women's voices & the women in men's....Christopher Biggins was excellent as Nero

[heavy21metal]

At 0:58 appears Claudia Octavia.

[ANAMNEN20AR]

i totally agree with Arkady63. I did a similar comment on the previous episode.

Agrippina is crazy for not knowing why Claudius is allowing her manupilations to pass so easily.

And Nero was not crazy, neither he set the fire on Rome. He was a megalomaniac, he bribed the judges to music competitions to get the first prize, but he was a good emperor. He took care of the people and the poor. All these that are being told about him are Cristian propaganda.

[DonMeaker]

Suetonius didn't seem to like Nero either.

[ezelite]

So did he kick his pregnant wife to death or not?

[ezelite]

Actually, the same is said of Caligula, but only the negative opinions remain. It would be interesting if one day we could find more information, but we are stuck now with only the legends.

[Arkady63]

More English nationalism in this show.

The king of the Britons screams defiantly at the emporer! Ooooh!

The Germans are barbarians, the Jew cheap and arrogant...you can get stuff cheap in India...

Ah, but English men keep their women in a perpetual state of ecstacy and their king may defy Ceasar.

Give me a break.

[dionnebregent]

Caractacus's speech to, and pardon by the Roman Senate is attested by numerous Roman historians, including Tacitus. You can disagree with the way it is presented here, but you cannot deny its historical reality and dismiss it as modern English nationalism.

[Arkady63]

That this speech occured is nothing I deny.

Isn't it a coincidence that a speech by a British leader, on a BBC show just happens to be the only one show given by a foreign leader in four generations of Roman history?

Isn't it a uncanny that a British TV show has the Germans as stupid and uncivilised louts? Or that Jews sell out their elders for money? That India is a bargain?

LOL! You can't get proper chips in Iberia, mate!

[lizbrennerurrutia]

@dionnebregent I Agree with your view.

[organizedactivist]

Yes, you picked up on this.

But, understand this is Robert Graves - the English author writing fiction for English audience - Roman society during this early Empire, decay then resurection was studied in all English schools - the Roman Empire like the British Empire.

The sources used Tacitus present German barbarians as strong, honorable, not corrupt like Roman elites.

Note that no one in Rome heard of Jesus until 20 years later when Herod tried a rebellion.

[verkaforever]

Agripinna was a bitch, there's no doubt about it- I am studying Classical Civilisation at University, and I'm doing a module on Nero.

[12stringsforme]

If you really want insight, read Gibbon.