I like how Taiwanese people fight, there's a lot of pushing and waving of the arms. Oh and there's a lot of loud talking going on lol, this is the most timid fight ever.
I was in a taxi in Taipei and the driver asked how I felt about China and the 國民黨's goals of unification. I said I deeply believed Taiwan should reunify...
Tae Kwon Do is good but not for close-quarters fighting
I've watched Parliamentary sessions from all over the world and Taiwan politicians have the best punching technique, they really put their hips into it and try to punch right thru the opposing politician
@loader200726 You should see how the Chinese PLA shoot at demonstrators from all four sides. Now that's what I call REAL action. The best part is one of the demonstrators survived to win an award (better than the Asian Games Award) 11 years later.
For all you Chinese Kung Fu fans out there, this one's for you.
There's a lot of energy, but the execution of the shots is poor. It's a free-for-all. It's like going to a boxing match and the crowd are in the ring. They need to get their balance and take some proper shots. There's even a backhand punch. It's a girly shot.
I think is how every country leaders should solve a problem, instead of sending people off to war to do their disagreement....you want things your way? Use your fists...and feet. xD lol
This is what it's like, to have your political representative truly fight for, you and your issues. I'll bet these politicians get much "RESPECT" from members of the opposite side. Not like here, where you are repeatedly "sold-out" by so-called compromises and negotiations.
Contrary to what some people here seem to think Taiwan is not part of China. It is an independent country. Taiwan is all that is left of an independent free China after Mao's thugs took over. If there is ever a reunification control of China should be given to Taiwan, as the KMT are the legitimate rulers of the whole of China.
They are just passionate about their country thats all. I wonder why the media in China dont even cover any scandals related to the politicians there. Oh wait, because the media there are state-run.
This shows that Taiwan legislators have no idea what a true democracy is about. It does not mean you can do anything you want. Btw, democracy (self-rule) is NOT capitalism (capitalize for personal profit), and communism (serve community) is NOT dictatorship. Sometimes dictatorship is preferable to self-rule. People in power must think communism to ensure public welfare and safety, but allow capitalism to motivate workers.
@pal2011 Taiwan independence is not the enemy of China. If your family is from Fujian, let me tell you this. Today, Taiwan independence supporters live mainly in the south. In southern cities like 台南 and 高雄 many towns have names like: 左營庄, 前鋒庄, 後協庄, 前鎮庄, 右衝庄. Where do these names come from? These are 明鄭時代軍鎮屯墾(營盤田)地名. What does that tell you? Most DPP supporters are descendants of the 郑成功 army that went to Taiwan and the local aborigines people. These are the so-called "enemies of China."
@raininthesouth haha I actually knew that. But my early years in China have instilled too much pride in me as a 'Chinese' that I'm never going to be pro DPP. By this I don't necessarily mean 中国人in a national sense, more like 华人in a cultural sense. In the end, I like to daydream that if the KMT killed the communists, I could live in luxury in a big house in Fujian withs servants >>.<<
@pal2011 Some people are going to kill me for saying this but I think Fujianese should leave China or become independent like Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia. Because these areas are separate from China, they're able to better preserve Chinese culture. If they are now all unified under China, I guarantee you the Minnan language will disappear very soon. Beijing is now forcing Cantonese TV stations to use Mandarin. It's sad but true. They are only using Minnan culture to unify Taiwan.
@raininthesouth This is true not only for Fujuanese and Cantonese, but also Shanghainese (where I live and experienced this), Manchus, Tibetans, Uighurs etc... The CPC wants to erase everyone's subculture and make everyone model Beijing people who love Mao Zedong. It sucks.
@pal2011 You know why 張銘清 got hit when he came to Taiwan? Because he gives speeches like "閩南文化圈建設的戰略構想". 閩南文化戰略構想?? Like I said, Beijing is only using Fujian and Minnan culture to unify Taiwan. They have no respect for the Minnan culture, Cantonese culture, or Chinese culture. 台南 is a city of culture so that's why the people of 台南 hate a swindler like 張銘清. He came to Taiwan with war in mind. 戰略? If he came for war then he got what he deserved. What's he complaining about?
@raininthesouth While I would like to do the same to some CPC officials, I still don't violence is the way to go. It has far too negative a connotation when used on media. They could've done a sit-in like Martin Luther King did and achieve more positive results. You know why western media only cares about Tibetans and ignores all other minorities/subcultures in China being erased? Because Tibetans are seemingly peaceful with all the monks and things. The peaceful resistance thing works.
@pal2011 Peaceful resistance works in the West. It doesn't work with Chinese governments (like CCP and KMT). If you sit there peacefully, they will first ignore you, then they will accuse you of obstructing traffic. If you keep sitting there they will call you an enemy of China. Next they will come talk to you to give you a final warning to go home. If you go home, they will arrest you the next day and shoot you. If you stay, they will deploy the troops and send all foreign reporters home.
@raininthesouth Well true. Peaceful resistance did not work at beginning at all in the states, they grabbed the protesters, hosed them down with water, and threw them in jail. But it is these photos that got around the country and grinded down public opinion later to pass all the imporant bills. What you describe is def true still on mainland, but surely they don't do that on Taiwan these days?
@pal2011 Taiwan's democracy is a lot more fragile than you think. The DPP was not formed until 1986, just three years before the Tiananmen incident. Before that, there was only KMT dictatorship. Taiwanese people had their first election in 1996, 10 years after the DPP was formed. Taiwan democracy is really only 14 years old. Today, everyone takes it for granted. No one sees how many lives were sacrificed in this struggle for democracy and how much we're about to lose.
@raininthesouth 14 years may seem shortish, but in terms of new democracies go, that's quite respectable. Taiwan actually have had peaceful transitions of power other than the real fragile democracies in where 1 power transition leads to chaos and civil war. A recent example would be Kyrgyzstan. Democracies need to respect the each other while in charge for it to work. Violence->chaos->topple regime->maybe another dictatorial regime and detroy the democracy. The key I think is still peace.
@pal2011 Today, Chinese see the fruit of our labor. They think Taiwan has been democratic the day KMT arrived. Nothing could be further from the truth. 江南案, 林宅血案, 陳文成命案, 王羽刺許案, 鄭南榕自焚 incidents all happened within the past 30 years. Today, many of DDP politicians have been political prisoners of KMT or have had family members brutally murdered by KMT.
謀殺《蔣經國傳》作者江南
台灣演義: 林義雄 P1
台灣演義：陳文成命案(1/3)
1/3 鄭南榕殉道二十週年追思-焚
Are these things of the past? Find this article online.
@pal2011 Let me be honest with you, the day the CCP and KMT get together will be the day misfortune befalls all Chinese and Taiwanese people. Mark my word. You Chinese are too naive. You have no idea what the KMT is capable of or rather you have forgotten this fact. Find this YouTube video.
@raininthesouth I think history goes forwards, not backwards. Both the CPC regime and the KMT regime are terrible sure, but they're both improvements to the old dynasty/empire system (kmt still better than cpc....). While remembering the past, I'm hoping the mainland one day do develop a 2-party system, maybe even with CPC vs KMT. Anyways, you forget that I'm an American now and just watching this as an interested observer.
@pal2011 I came to U.S. at age of 9. Why do I care about what's going on over there? Because it concerns all of us. People do not learn from history. For a country like China that prides itself in its long history and tradition, modern day Chinese (and some Taiwanese) have especially short-term memory. China is on a collision course with America. There are now over 14 countries holding military exercises in the region. There is a movie called Red Dawn coming out later this year as well.
@raininthesouth idk...your Chinese and history seems surprisingly deep for someone who came here at age 9. So you don't want China to fight the US either, is that what I'm hearing? The best way for that NOT to happen is simple - no formal independence declaration. Green camp need to realize that even if they win with absolute majority, such a declaration would accomplish nothing (since Taiwan enjoys de facto independence already) other than starting a war.
@raininthesouth if green camp win again, they can just repeal efca...I don't think there's any permendent damage here at all. Also note that I don't think the '14 countries' have much vested interest to defend Taiwan. Most of them don't give much a hoot. In fact, I don't think there's even enough political will in the US to start a war with China, its largest trading partner + bond buyer.
@pal2011 U.S. doesn't want to start an actual war with China, however the U.S. is now playing another kind of war. U.S. plans to dominate the Fuel and Food market in the future and control China this way. You may not know this but the Chinese government is aware of this and is worried. China cannot supply 5% of its food and depends on foreign import. U.S. controls the fast overseas food market. If U.S. cuts China off, over 6000 million Chinese will starve.
"cannot supply 5% of its food and depends on foreign import."
lol, nope. if that's the case, food would be very expensive there. for example, China is the biggest rice producer, and most of this staple is consumed within the country. however, they still even have a little bit left to export it. although in down-seasons, China does need to import grain, however, the government made policies to increase grain production over other crops (high-value crops are meant for export).
@pal2011 Fuel-wise, U.S. is now blockading the Indian Ocean, South China sea, and China Sea. That's why China is seeking cooperation with Pakistan to build a new railway to transport oil. U.S. and China are two countries on a definite collision course. Taiwan may be a trigger point, like the two Koreas. No one knows what can happen next. U.S. has already deployed its nuclear submarines to the region with over 462 missiles. It's unfortunate for small countries like Taiwan, and even Korea.
@raininthesouth If you're so paranoid about this war, then why are you anti KMT-CPC rapproachment? Do you just want some overzealous politician from DPP pulling this 'trigger' by declaring formal independence? It just takes 1 stupid politician to start this war.
@pal2011 Being realistic does not mean that I am paranoid. Facts are facts. The fuel war with China is something U.S. has stared a while back. I don't think you should blame the DPP and not the corrupt CPP and KMT gang. CPP could easily hold off on this reunification plan. They want to push everything too fast so now the situation becomes overheated. Just like how they try to push the economy too fast causing inflation. That's chewing off more than you can swallow.
@raininthesouth cpc has held off reunification for 60 years and all they want right now is more 'status quo.' The burden now rests on DPP and the Taiwanese people to lay off on the immediate independence plan. As soon as that's gone, there will be no need for CPC to put the military pressure at all. Or how about, China and Taiwan lay off our plans at the same time through talks?
@pal2011 China should hold off on the Taiwan issue, focus on developing a more democratic political system and stabilizing economy from within, improve unequal wealth distribution and strengthening cooperation abroad including with potential rivals like the U.S. Instead because of Taiwan and North Korean issue, China is willing to give up everything to go head to head with the U.S. This is simply not the right time. All it does is create instability in the region. Wait for a better time.
@raininthesouth I agree with most of that. Except that when the 'better time' comes up Taiwan will be totally independent. Is it stupid to risk everything for Taiwan? yes ofc. But is CPC gonan do it ofc... so why are DPP not seeing this and wanting a major war on the island? I really don't know.
@pal2011 Many Taiwanese say the DPP and the Taiwan Green Party is actually the pro-Japan Party. That's why they will fight to the death for so-called independence.
@OnePeopleOneChina DPP makes no secret about being pro-Japan. You don't have to whisper. In China, being pro-Japan is equivalent to being a war criminal. In Taiwan, if you're pro-Japan you're in good company. Why should it be a big surprise that Taiwan is pro-Japan? Our history is different than China. All the political leaders that came to Taiwan like Koxinga and Chiang Kai-Shek are all opposition forces to mainland. Koxinga is even half-Japanese. What do you expect?
@OnePeopleOneChina Half of Koxinga's family still lives in Japan today. My family is part of the half that lives in Taiwan. As a Ming loyalist, Koxinga's father and mother were both killed in China. The end of MIng dynasty means our story with China ends there. Part of old Ming dynasty culture survived in Taiwan but China became a foreign land to us. Today, Taiwan's story with Japan is a complex one. It's not something Chinese can understand. See this video on YouTube
@raininthesouth i think you're forgetting a good piece of history after the Qing Dynasty......and that is the Republic of China. i know you didn't forget, since you mentioned CKS to me.
just like what Koxinga would have wanted, the Chinese regained control of China, which includes the island of Taiwan. Sun Yat-Sen continued Koxinga's war, in a way and achieved his goal. at least the KMT still hold true to their values (even their party's name says it all).
@DuhLie I also think you left out a very important part of what I said "When Ming dynasty collapsed, their tie with China was severed as well. Taiwan became their new homeland. They married local aborigines and made Taiwan their new home."
Today the myth that Taiwanese are genetically identical to Chinese is a lie. I am not aware at this time of a large-scale genetic study that compares Taiwanese and Chinese DNA. Such study should be relatively easy to conduct and would end all disputes.
@raininthesouth Taiwanese look Chinese, they speak in Chinese languages, they write in Chinese characters.....you only wish their common genetically identity with the Chinese is a lie. whatever floats your boat yo ;)
how was their tie with China severed after the Ming? they were still part of the Qing, and them became part of the Republic of China. the fact alone that you shared history with China already debunked with your "no history with China" statement.
@DuhLie All Asian countries have historical ties with each other. All European nations fought wars with each other and have historical and blood ties through royal marriages. What's more, if you're talking about past territory, can Great Britain claim America, Canada, Australia, India, Pakistan, parts of Africa, and Israel as part of the British territory today? Can you say Americans are genetically identical to British? Some people look white but have 1/2 Cherokee blood.
@raininthesouth@raininthesouth bare in mind that those British colonies were actually very far from Britain itself. but yeah, many whites in the US came from Anglos. but obviously, the US today is a melting pot of too many people. Northern Ireland is still part of Great Britain though (maybe it's because of it's close vicinity?).
@DuhLie As far as your argument that Taiwanese look Chinese. Like I said, genetic studies alone is sufficient to settle this argument. Like I said, should we deny our aboriginal ancestry? It is not a question of if but how much blood ties we have with the aboriginal people. As far as my family is concerned, my grandfather looks very Japanese. If I show you a picture you will know what I mean. My grandmother looks aborigines, not Chinese at all. We're southern Taiwanese.
@raininthesouth yet you don't have the sufficient genetic studies.
so how much blood ties do you actually have with aboriginal people?? yeah, not that much, well, not the majority at least. maybe your one of the "special ones", who knows.
and it's weird, as almost pointless as you make your aborigine roots sounds, it's nothing compared to your Japanese-roots argument. what exactly does Japan have to do with this?
@DuhLie I suggest that before such a study is conducted, let's not be too hasty to conclude that Taiwanese are all Chinese. Preliminary study by one group concluded that nearly 85% of individuals on Taiwan island have aboriginal blood ties. That's excluding pure-blooded aboriginese who also live on the island. If we're all Chinese then what do you make of the part of us that isn't Chinese. Should we deny our aboriginal ancestry and just call ourselves Chinese?
@raininthesouth there's also a study that over 95% of Taiwan's population is ethnic Han. of that group, many of them are Hokkien and Hakka, who's ancestors came from parts of Fujian and Guangdong provinces.
only less than 3% are aborigines, but even they now have been assimilated. the KMT nor the DPP didn't do jack to preserve their language, for one example.
the real question is, should you deny your Chinese ancestry (which is more undoubtedly present)?
@DuhLie In all likelihood Taiwanese today have mixed ancestry. I do not deny part of my mother's side descends from Koxinga. However, I also do not deny that both my mother and father's side have Taiwan aboriginal blood. We may not be a new race but we're at least ethnicity, culturally, and historically distinct from China. To ask us Taiwanese to continue Sun Yat-Sen's legacy which mainland China has abandoned seems rather ludicrous.
@raininthesouth the mainland hasn't abandoned SYS's legacy. why else would he be honored? given the fact that the KMT is the ruling party, it just shows that there is still hope in Taiwan (in all honesty, Chen Shui Bian's monkey business doesn't make people hopeful either).
i don't even dream of the DPP to follow a step of SYS's path. it'd be an insult to him. the pan-green coalition is everything that's wrong in that island.
@DuhLie DPP shouldn't follow SYS's path because that's China's unfinished business. If KMT wants to finish SYS's work, good. Go back to China first then they can save all those poor Chinese they abandoned in 1947. With a population 60 times that of Taiwan, Chinese needs our help? Taiwan, with a total population 1.5-2.0% that of China's consisting of people of mixed ancestry, is expected to save China? You're kidding right? Pardon us for our disloyalty to your cause.
@raininthesouth hold on, i didn't know how you just bridged a gap between the KMT/SYS's work with the argument of the mainland needing the island's help lol.
KMT never left China in the first place. they are after all still in an island part of the Republic of China.
and no, despite the KMT took many of the countries fortunes and fled to Taiwan, despite the island's help from foreigners, the mainland doesn't expect the island to save them. this video shows the opposite of that, in fact :)
@DuhLie Chinese think all Asians look Chinese and should therefore call themselves Chinese and hand over their land. The Tibetans, Uighurs, Mongols, a total of 56 ethnicities are all considered Chinese. Isn't China's problem today overpopulation? As if though that's not enough, Chinese government also claims Vietnam as an "inseparable part of China" . I can send you the YouTube video. If Europeans think like that they'd have a nation by now too.
@raininthesouth nope, the Chinese don't think all Asians look Chinese. where did you get that from? the 56 ethnicities live in China, but only one of them is Han, one of them is Tibetan, Uyghurs, etc etc. it adds up to 56, hence "56" :)
over 1 billion of the Chinese population are Han, and only they have to follow the one-child policy. that's how they're trying to solve overpopulation (i don't really know how our discussion got to this).
@DuhLie I don't think you can call Koxinga a Chinese or a Japanese. He is both. I suggest you take a look at these excellent videos on YouTube. You'll understand Taiwan is a mix of everything and its culture is distinct, even from that of Fujian province. I've given you a mix of everything to be fair so you can see for yourself what's the same what's not.
@raininthesouth Koxinga is a Ming (Han Chinese) loyalist. he was fighting for the Ming, not for some kind of Taiwanese identity separate that of Ming. that's why he fought against the Dutch and the Manchus. that's why the only part i'm confused is why the dpp would like him? you even admitted similarities of Koxinga and SYS/CKS of the KMT. if you dislike the KMT, then.....
@DuhLie I don't know how many times I have to emphasize this but Koxinga is half Chinese half Japanese. He is not one or the other. Chinese always have a convenient way of overlooking anything that's not Chinese. Like I said, Tainan is Koxinga's capital. Who do you think lives in Tainan today? His descendants are all DPP, funny huh? Myself included. I am sorry but I wasn't aware of SYS's ambition to annex Taiwan. Did he make a speech about Taiwan that I didn't know about?
@DuhLie Ok, I am going to go do my thing. Sometimes people's viewpoints are just too different. DPP does have a point. We are not standing on the same plane so obviously what I see is not what you see and vice versa. To say we're all Chinese regardless of history, culture, genetics, personal identity is to negate all these differences. I think there are enough Chinese in the world. What's another 23 million? But then again, I am Taiwanese and you're Chinese. That's the difference.
@DuhLie Like I said, neither of us can convince the other person so in the end, what's the point? Like I said, to ask us Taiwanese to be loyal to China is impossible. China is a foreign country to me. I have no plan of ever setting foot on that country in this lifetime, not even to visit. My aunt told me that the Chinese who visit Taiwan complain everywhere they go and wave their flag in an over-zealous and embarrassing way. That's Chinese for you. Sorry we just can't identify with you.
@DuhLie Taiwan can have a close alliance with China, that I don't oppose. However, I don't agree that Taiwan has to become part of China. That's totally unnecessary. Especially in light of the fact that China's political system and social structure is unstable. What's good for China may not be what's good for Taiwan. I still think people in Taiwan should have their own voice and their own national identity. I love Taiwan just the way it is now, a truly unique mix of cultures.
@raininthesouth if you "love Taiwan just the way it is now", then you should at least be in support of the status quo.
if you support the dpp, it'll just destroy the island.
if you don't oppose a close alliance with China, then why would you support the dpp? you're probably against this trade deal between them. look at the dpp in this video. obviously, China's booming economy is good for Taiwan, so isn't this trade deal a good start?
look at this video, is this a stable political system????
@DuhLie Does making Taiwan a province make you Chinese get high or something? What's China with or without Taiwan? Why the obsession? Tell me. The world wants to know too. We're all puzzled by the Chinese's strange obsession with Taiwan. Watch this BBC interview on YouTube.
dpp is the one with the weird obsession being anti-China, even up to the point of racism. now you guys are really high on something lol.
it'd be best if you didn't visit China anyways. while mainlanders visits Taiwan and vice versa. and even do business...a lot of it, as you should know by now.
there's no need in convincing you and the likes. internationally, most countries recognizes the PRC, for those who don't, they recognize the ROC.
@DuhLie I could support the status quo if China doesn't pull moves like ECFA and MOU. It is exactly treaties like these that make me believe DPP should declare independence. We all know what ECFA is about. It amounts to an economic war. What kind of status quo is that? China tries to barricade Taiwan diplomatically and economically. That's why I don't feel bad the U.S. is doing exactly the same thing to China right now.
@raininthesouth actually, as the US owes trillions, they can't really do what they used to do lol. so you can feel good about it, what's left of it.
btw, if you think about it, the KMT looks even more enthusiastic about the efca than the communists. in fact, after the signing, they wanted to discuss more things in the future but the mainland delegation wanted to take things one by one. no need to be hasty i guess.
efca gives you an economy, as oppose to.......none?
@DuhLie U.S. and Japan both owe a lot of money but are these poor countries? Of course not, in all measures of wealth these are extremely wealthy countries. In contrast, China's wealth is only concentrated in a few. 1% of China's population holds 40% of the nation's wealth while the remaining 99% shares the 60% that's left. Everyone sees Beijing and Shanghai but what about the rest of China? When 1/5 of the world's population shares 60% of a nation's wealth is this a wealthy country?
@raininthesouth don't confuse the wealth of a country with the wealth of individuals. for a population of over a billion people in a developing country, what do you expect? but if you refrain from looking at people's wallets and start looking at the state's wallet, there's a difference. that's where influences in economy, policy, and military starts to shine. US is still "rich" yes, but they can't even pay the loans that they owe.
i wonder how far more important the Sino-US relations are....
@DuhLie China's economic scale is large, but without equal distribution of wealth China is no different than Saudi Arabia and Mexico. Some of the world's richest people are from countries like these. Obviously wealth isn't measured by sheer scope or by individual holdings. Without equal distribution of wealth, China will always be poor. We Taiwanese understand this that's why we are not falling on our knees thanking China. KMT supports ECFA because most of that wealth goes into their pockets.
@raininthesouth have you even seen the increasing wealth gap in the US?
in any case, you always blame either the CCP or the KMT of greed and corruption. while Chen Shui Bian is a saint.....right. yeah, his wife might plead guilty, but him, naaah, he's a saint.
of the +/- 800 items discussed in the ecfa, 500+ are Taiwanese products and only 200+ products from the mainland. but politics as usual make it seem more than what it is.
@DuhLie I think the funny thing about ECFA is this. China is roughly 60 times the size of Taiwan in terms of population. Taiwan's population size is 1.5-2.0% that of China's. Does it make any sense that they give us 500+ and we give them about half. Seems like a good deal, if you don't know how to do math. Think about it. Taiwan only has 1.5-2.0% of China's population! What kind of shitty deal is this? Did I mention the political cost? That's priceless. What a good deal for China!
@raininthesouth so you think all of the +/- 800 items in the ecfa should be all from Taiwan? or do you think you want the island to sell all of it's products to the mainland, with little or no tariffs, while the mainland can't sell any in return? if you think that, then what kind of a trade deal is that?
well, since you talked about population, you at least know some of the realization of the island's situation. you "can't be trouble-makers", as President Ma had put it. what else can you do?
@DuhLie ECFA is not a business deal, it's a political tool. I have always kept this fact in mind. The items are there to distract the Taiwanese public from realizing what's going on. Don't worry, China is getting a good deal, anyway you look at it. I am not deceived on this issue because I know the facts. In China, if you're the ethnic, political, or social minority, then you're automatically labeled troublemaker. I guess by this definition, Taiwan is the trouble-maker, sure.
@raininthesouth nope, the dpp are trouble-makers lol. i'm surprised you still didn't get my drift out of all this time. i got no beef with the kmt, you see. nice try in bringing other "ethnic, political, or social minority" in your team. play the victim all you want, no one cares anyway.
newsflash, any economic deals nowadays always has something to do with politics. yes, keep that in mind.
@DuhLie Is corruption worse in China or Taiwan? I can send you like a million articles which I have meticulously collected over time if you don't know the answer. Chinese talk about Chen Shui Bian case every day. If you want to know about Chinese corruption, ask me. I know this subject so well I can probably get a degree on this. That's why don't even tell me about corruption in Taiwan. Argue about something else you know more about.
@raininthesouth you're the one who brought up the corruption issues. a dpp supporter talking about other people's corruption has no edge.
i didn't deny any corruption in China. there's lots of it, trust me. you think it's easy to manage a country with that size? not that i'm using that as an excuse in anyway.
in China, they usually put a bullet through a corrupted official's head. in Taiwan, they get re-elected..
@DuhLie In China, they put a bullet through a corrupt official's head if that official happens to be a convenient scapegoat. Don't worry, Jiang Zeming and his son will never get jailed for anything. They make President Chen look like an amateur. How bad is China's corruption? As mentioned, 40% of China's wealth today is in the hands of 1% of the people. One-third of bad debt in China are due to embezzled, fraudulent, falsified, or bribe money. How much money is that? Over $15 billion.
@raininthesouth convenient scapegoat? yes, maybe sometimes. but for many occasions, those guys are actually corrupt. they like to be efficient in the process, and they don't like bureaucratic red tape.
Taiwan has a relatively small population, "free and democratic", yet guys like Chen still exists? he pushes for independence to divert people's attention from his corruption. even his wife plead guilty, while riding a wheelchair in court....
@DuhLie Before Chinese gloat about President Chen's corruption case I just want to remind them half of 4 x 10^16 dollars that was supposed to go into the stimulus package for recession in China went into the pockets of corrupt officials instead.
2 x 10^16 is a lot of money, to put it mildly. All gone. Both Taiwanese and South Korean president need to go to China to get a degree on corruption. They really suck at it.
@raininthesouth in other words, before you show off how great your system is, how free and democratic you are, you should set a better example. better than Chen, at least. lol....his hunger-strike in prison. what's worse is that you're in a way defending a guy like Chen.
btw, i dunno where you get your numbers from, but i'm sure a larger number goes into development. there's still corruption there, i'm not denying that. but developing the middle-class is the aim right now.
@DuhLie KMT wants to showcase Taiwan's democracy to the world. It's pretty pathetic because less than 30 years ago they were still jailing and assassinating people, even going as far as coming to the U.S. to murder political opponents. Look up Henry Liu on Wikipedia. What democracy? We real Taiwanese could care less about what goes on in China. You think we want to showcase our "democracy" to China? So what? We can go back to China as victors? That's KMT's dream, not ours.
@raininthesouth well, the typical rhetoric of the dpp is about democracy, and how much it's not communist or whatever. you're always comparing to something you can't compete with. seeing as how much the dpp would like to put this in their medias, isn't that a form of showcasing?
and you might blame the democratically elected kmt for now, but even the dpp didn't have a choice back then, or even in the future if they ever get elected again (heaven forbid).
@DuhLie You've never been to Taiwan, have you? Local Taiwanese treat Chinese like foreigners. At best Taiwanese are curious, at worst openly hostile towards Chinese. Most are indifferent. If you watch TV you will see what you want to see, KMT shaking hands with Chinese counterparts like long lost brothers. Reality is very different. Taiwanese don't usually tell you what they're thinking inside. If you want to believe what's on TV, go ahead.
@raininthesouth no, i haven't been to Taiwan, yet. but i do have some Taiwanese friends here, my fellow "Hua Ren" (even in my work place). but of course, i've never met anyone like you though. but i guess you can blame me for being selective, that's fair enough. we usually don't talk about politics though, because it really doesn't matter.
but you haven't been to China either. well, i guess you don't know what they're "thinking inside". similarly, there's a best, a worst, not really indifferent.
@DuhLie I can already tell you there will be trouble ahead as KMT tries to get closer with China. Something is already simmering, about to boil over in Taiwan. As a native Taiwanese, I always side with DPP. We would rather let President Chen take our money than let KMT hurt more Taiwanese. Wherever Taiwanese go, even in China, we stick together and protect our own community's interest. That's just the way it is. Jews do the same in America. Call it law of nature.
@raininthesouth trust me, Chen and the dpp would be the ones who'd really hurt the Taiwanese. if you want people like him to take you money, lol okay then.
speaking about the Taiwanese in China, why would they even be there if most of them don't like that place, as you sort of imply? i don't see a "Taiwantown" anywhere. it's a Chinatown, a close community protecting it's own interest ;))) i'm pretty sure you've been there hehe.
@raininthesouth btw, since you like to talk about the KMT's dark history (i know about Henry Liu, not a native of Taiwan, mind you lol), i hope you know about the DPP's history too....who supported them, initially ;)))
@DuhLie I know Henry Liu is not Taiwanese. My point is that KMT is corrupt and this was a case of political assassination. What is your point? How about 林宅血案, 陳文成命案, 王羽刺許案, 鄭南榕自焚? These incidents all happened within the past 30 years. Today, many of DDP politicians have been political prisoners of KMT or have had family members brutally murdered by KMT. Even though you Chinese won't look at these cases, here are the videos on YouTube.
@raininthesouth kmt is corrupt, ccp is corrupt, and of course, the dpp is corrupt too. it's just funny how a "deep green party member" such as yourself can be so devoted to a political party, a party that was once supported by the ccp lol. how pathetic can the dpp get?
the day your "biggest fear" becomes true, you can always *immolate* yourself in your parent's basement. the whole dpp should do that. ya know, to stand up for their beliefs haha. then there'd finally be peace lol.
@DuhLie Who doesn't know CCP used to support DPP? Why? Because they want to use DPP to oppose KMT. Then what happened? CCP backstabbed DPP and started flirting around with KMT. CCP is like a slut that likes to sleep around. KMT knows CCP is a slut but now wants CCP back because they're desperate. So now the loser and the slut are together again. How touching...
@raininthesouth i thought you would "cease all conversations with Chinese" because it's a waste of your time. well, i guess i'm glad you're wasting your time on me :)
the ccp realized that the dpp are truly the biggest form of back-stabbing there is. imagine, no ccp, no dpp. how pathetic the dpp are.
yes, the ccp and the kmt have had a long and dark history, but at least both have a mutual respect and both of them don't respect the dpp.
dpp only gets respect from rejects like Lee Teng Hui lol.
No offense but the KMT and the CCP had been arch enemies only until Ma became the president. The KMT is keeping ties with the CCP now because the DDP was the real rival of the KMT. Mutual respect in politics simply doesnt exist.
@BasketballStud99 fine, i'll give Ma the credit then. who cares lol. what difference does it make?
Lee Teng Hui, while being a member of the KMT, suppressed the DPP, in a way, up until he joined the pan-green faction with his TSU. so yeah, politics is stupid that way.
but one thing the blues and reds got in common is that they don't deny their Chinese heritage. that's all that matters to most Chinese i think, in terms of political parties, or even non political things.
@DuhLie You can make fun of Dalai Lama all you want but even you know the American public has nothing bad to say about Dalai Lama. In fact, he has a lot of fans here in the U.S. Can't say the same for Wen Jiabao, Hu Jintao, and Jiang Zemin. No matter how hard you try, you can't change people's perception of China. This is what Americans think of when you mention China.
lol, they have nothing to say because it only appears that way. if you watch these videos (highly not promoted in America, i guess), then you'll see that at least i have less biased sources haha.
@DuhLie Asian countries like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore all welcome U.S. presence in the Pacific. Even China is worried now that the U.S. has positioned 60% of its naval resources in the Asian Pacific region. As a Taiwanese and American, I support the policies of this country. Again, everyone should take a look at the level of lawlessness and corruption in China. It's downright frightening. Don't let the Chinese fool you. They're hiding a lot from the world.
@raininthesouth the US owing trillions, i highly doubt they start a war. even if China does invade Taiwan, they'd probably do nothing.
in any case, the American presence there just makes China develop more, militarily lol. there are other countries (that's right, there's more than one) that don't want the US there though. why not mention them? of course, you are a US lapdog. good girl.
@raininthesouth why did you even post the same 3 videos again when you just sent them 3 comments ago. lol.
becoming a little repetitive are we? not to mention skipping to a different topic after i refute everyone single one of them. try refuting mine for a change? you can't? i don't blame you :)
bring it on, i could use a laugh :)
btw, i wonder maybe mainlanders are going to invest heavily in Taiwan. yeah, buying up the place. 2nd stage of ecfa maybe? haha.
@DuhLie If you want a laugh go watch the "SpongeBob Square Pants in China" cartoon on YouTube. It's pretty funny. Chinese are pretty full of themselves, for third world country citizens. Mainlanders going to Taiwan to invest? Sure, for a change. Why not? They all want to immigrate to Taiwan cause life in China sucks. As far as news reporting, images don't lie. We saw what we saw. They didn't hire those peasants as actors. The 暴打官夫人 news was major news all over China.
@raininthesouth i don't know why your comment got flagged, lol, but who hired peasants as actors? who said anything of hiring actors?? are you making up things and blaming me for it? maybe you're reading/hearing things....like, out of nowhere.
if you took your time to read my replies (it doesn't take that much time), i said i don't deny any of those.
BTW, if it was major news all over China, then why did you say that they're embarrassed to show it??
@DuhLie Look, if you Chinese love your government, that's your problem. Just stay away from us, please. We would hate to live under that kind of system. KMT is enough for us to deal with as it is. China is like an ugly woman that no man wants. Stop chasing after Taiwan. Those embarrassing news reports about Chinese corruption are done by foreign journalists and Taiwanese newspapers stationed in China. Of course the government wouldn't show that kind of stuff, are you kidding me?
@raininthesouth there you go again. if the Chinese government wouldn't show that stuff, then how would it possibly be shown all over China? as you JUST SAID. trust me, if the government doesn't want to show it, then not even foreign or Taiwanese media can broadcast it in China. lol, i don't even need to say anything, you can already contradict yourself lol.
i like both ccp and kmt lol. as you know, the kmt still has their mission to come back! :D and the ccp have their own mission too.
@DuhLie As far as reading your replies, sorry, not going to go into details. I don't have any respect for Chinese. People like you guys have no morals. As a whole, Taiwanese are more decent and respectable. I used to work in a lab where the Chinese would come to me and tell me all sorts of bad things about fellow Chinese. They badmouth and distrust each other. They never help other people. In fact, they rely on Taiwanese to help them when they need help instead of each other.
@raininthesouth bingo! you did exactly what i said you would.
you wouldn't bother replying, but instead, talk about stuff like how "Taiwanese are so good, and how Chinese are so bad" in one of your life's experiences. only heaven knows if these experiences are actually true.
then you go on talking about your ancestry, then the Japanese, then Americans, and then send me some random videos of ntdtv.....
btw, we help each other to ensure Taiwan will always be part of China :D
@DuhLie No, we Taiwanese help China out of a sense of duty. It's what we've been taught as children. My father once gave $200 to a Mexican migrant worker and gave him a ride because he said that was the right thing to do. My husband and I support a middle school boy in China. Not because we like China or Chinese. You can tell what my attitude is towards Chinese in general. I did it for the same reason my dad did what he did. To put it simply, it's our social duty.
@raininthesouth now i thought you said you didn't even have anything to do with China!
then all of a sudden, you tell me you and your husband support a boy in China? where did this come from? :) well, that's good to hear, if it's true that is. i mean, would you believe someone who thinks would support a person/while while they say that those people are "disgusting"? i mean, if it is true, doesn't that make you a hypocrite. it totally negates that purpose of that "social duty"like an empty smile.
@DuhLie Trust me, I struggle inside with this decision. I told my husband many times I have a difficult time continuing with this decision. I am disgusted with what the Chinese have become. Don't think people like us don't know Chinese culture. We probably know it better than you. However, the fact that the communist and people like you now claim to represent it made us realize that sadly, it is time to part with the name Chinese. What is left of this culture in China is merely the name.
@raininthesouth if you knew more about Chinese culture than any other, why would you want an identity separate that of China?
no, the dpp doesn't know Chinese culture at all. you for example, have literally discredited Taiwan's history with China (read what you posted a few days ago). not only that, you even would go as far as denying a blood line.
no no, in Taiwan, the ones who know about Chinese culture are the kmt and the pan-blue faction. dpp would be seen as traitors, more than anything.
@DuhLie Today's China is a total disgrace. Revival? You mean making up culture as you go along? In Taiwan, tradition is passed down from one generation to the next. Unfortunately, China's disconnect with its own cultural past made its claim to Taiwan rather unconvincing. Taiwan's separation from China was inevitable and necessary. How far has China strayed from its past? Today the Japanese are more Confucian than Chinese. Disgraceful!
being that the Chinese still speak the Chinese languages (not Mongolian or Manchurian), they still write in Hanzi, follow and promote ancient Chinese values, i'd say it's a good revival.
what is Taiwan's tradition? yeah, Chinese traditions. on the contrary, that's why reunification is inevitable and necessary.
@DuhLie The Japanese do not want to associate themselves with the Chinese either even though their culture is more authentically Han than China's culture. The Kimono they wear is closer to Hanfu than China's Qipao. China today is a foreign country to Han tradition. It's a tragedy and irony at the same time. Of course I know China's history, and that is why I adamantly oppose calling myself Chinese today. It is a symbol of shame, downright shame.
@raininthesouth you're the symbol of downright shame. can you even listen to yourself?
btw, fyi, there's a Hanfu revival in China that started somewhere around 2003 i think. the Manchus (who banned wearing Hanfu during the Qing dynasty) can still wear their qipao, but the Chinese now are proud of wearing the Hanfu, which is far older than the Qipao.
@DuhLie As I have mentioned before, Roger Y. Tsien, Nobel laureate from U.S. and current president of Academia Sinica in Taiwan also made the following claim when pressed by a Chinese reported "Mr. Tsien, are you Chinese? Do you speak Chinese? What does your accomplishments entail for Chinese scientists?" Mr. Tsien answered "I am not a Chinese scientist. I was born and raised in America." This statement caused some uproar from patriotic Chinese at the time.
@DuhLie I understand what Roger Tsien means when he said "I am not a Chinese scientist." He is speaking about a sense of identity, which is far more important than bloodline or ancestry. China today no longer represents Han Confucian culture. It's a tragedy but a fact many of us have come to accept. if I stay in U.S., my kids will be Taiwanese American, but not Chinese. That identity is too far removed from who we are and what we represent.
@raininthesouth well of course people like you, won't be Chinese. even the Chinese don't consider you as Chinese. you know why? because such disgraces don't belong to our family.
at the end of the day, you'll just be an American. that's going to be your country. who knows, maybe your kids will see the day that Taiwan reunified back to China :) or maybe you'll see that during you death-bed. either way, it's going to happen.
@raininthesouth unlike you, what i strive to represent is not based on a political party. i could care less if it's the ccp or kmt, or whatever, as long as it's Chinese in body and soul.
aside from the communist, and the people like me, the kmt also strives to represent China. so are you also saying that you want to part with the name "Chinese" because of the kmt that's IN in the island itself? maybe the best solution for you, and people like you, is to get out of the island.
@DuhLie KMT claims to represent China? Sure. Then what were they doing banning Taiwanese? What's Taiwanese? That's what I study during my spare time for the past several years. Taiwanese is at least a direct line stemming from Song dynasty court language. There are very good evidence to prove that is richly imbued with Han Tang and earlier dynasty court lingua as well. It is probably one of the most authentic Han language in existence today. What's KMT doing banning this language?
@raininthesouth you're talking about Taiwan's relations with the Song dynasty?? when a few days ago, you said all Taiwan's history with China is in the Ming dynasty only. lol, you failed again.
at least both you and i know that Taiwan's history with China goes really far back, even this you cannot deny :) you and your family can move to America or Japan, while Chinese history, culture, and relations stays in the island. :D
@DuhLie That's what I mean when I said China has lost too much of its tradition to the point they don't even recognize Han culture from Manchu/Mongol culture. I am not going to go into details but people like us have a very good reason for looking down on China today. China today is an imposer of the cultural traditions of its past. After over 365 years of foreign rule and over 60 years of communist oppression, what's Han Chinese about China? Not much.
@raininthesouth maybe you need to open your eyes a little. the Manchus have their own thing, the Mongols have their own thing (although, during the respective dynasties they've ruled, they did adopt many Chinese aspects of culture), and the Han have their own thing too. i know you refuse to see the difference.
it's funny, you speak of you people sticking to Chinese traditions and culture while at the same time you deny that heritage?? Disgraced People's Party= DPP.
@DuhLie Problem with China is that as long as the communist continue to hijack this culture and claim it as theirs then China's brain drain problem will only worsen. This no doubt contribute to the fact that China has yet to produce a single Nobel prize winner. There are four doctors in our family and we all gladly dissociate ourselves from this so-called "Chinese culture" in China today. For those who know, it's all fake. Even my mother would say so, and she teaches this stuff.
@raininthesouth This is the 21st century. Stop using race and nationalism as excuses to invade another country. I am not pure-blooded Chinese since my grandmother on my mother's side is Taiwane aborigines. Why should I call myself a Chinese when I have never set foot on China (neither has the last 6-7 generations of my family on both sides). China is not our motherland. Our root is in Taiwan and so is our heart. This island is our home. We are proud of our multicultural heritage.
@raininthesouth no one was talking about "pure-blood" here until you came along. saying you're not pure-blood Chinese implies you do have Chinese blood, from your father's side haha.
talking about race and nationalism as excuses, what about you? why would you be even specifically talking about your mother's-side aborigine bloodline? your so-called roots and etc. isn't that about race and nationalism (false one, might i add).
lol, your mom is part aborigine yet she teaches about China. good one.
@DuhLie Much of today's Western culture has a steep root in Greek and Roman traditions. Do we hear the Italians and Greeks going around boasting and censoring others? Italy today is no longer the Roman Empire from 2000 years ago, neither is China. That is why no one has the right to claim ownership of these cultures. The ethnic makeup of China has changed dramatically during the past several thousand years.
@DuhLie You talk about the Chinese owning this culture as if though this culture belongs to them. Again, Chinese today speak Mandarin and write in simplified Chinese. This highlights the dramatic shift in culture and ethnic makeup in China within the last last 800 years. If you speak ancient Han Chinese and write in traditional (or hieroglyphic) Chinese then you can claim to represent this tradition. Otherwise, Chinese today have no right to claim ownership of this culture.
@DuhLie Talking about race and nationalism as excuses... You didn't finish the sentence. As excuses to what? To invade another country. Race and nationalism can be talked about, in the right context and the right time. No one said you couldn't talk about it. I talk about my ethnic background in order to highlight the complexity of the concept of race, culture, and history. To say that the people living in China today own the Chinese culture is like saying the Italians own Western culture.
@DuhLie Anyone can teach English, even a Chinese person. Anyone can speak English, even someone like you. Yet you don't have to pledge allegiance to the white race. I don't hear Caucasians saying things like "You speak and write our language, use all the things we invented. How dare you not be loyal to us!" Yet somehow this kind of ridiculous accusations could come from the mouth of a Chinese person. That's how totally irrational Chinese are.
@raininthesouth This irrationality is historically created... There were too many historic distortions to this very old nation and average chinese do not see the meaning anymore. What can bring them back is a question
@DuhLie Although none of us can claim that we own ancient Chinese culture, there are obvious many experts in this field today. My mother has taught this subject for over 30 years so she is obviously more of an expert on this subject than an average Chinese person off the street . What's the big deal? I study medicine so I have more professional knowledge in this field. I don't hear white people saying "Gee, you're Asian, how come you study Western medicine?" I don't see your point.
@raininthesouth the fact is, your momma is Chinese. i bet she's proud in teaching ancient Chinese culture too. she should spread her knowledge in Taiwain! you know, letting people know their roots :) comparing it something with a foreign subject, like English or Western medicine, is what's irrational, and you know it. that's how irrational the green goblins are in Taiwan.
Thaiwanees parlement fights is the best. I love this game
66akino 1 week ago
taiwan is a big joke
haobo100 2 months ago
Taiwan will soon join China after HK and Macau, coz Tsai Yinwen says "Taiwan Next"
mikeleekok 2 months ago
*looks at each other "Taiwanese Parliament"
bcknights666 3 months ago
deomcracy.....
randomfatblob 3 months ago
wtf going on?
kayjuly27 4 months ago
lol > :27
ieatlbjshit 5 months ago
I'd love to be a Taiwanese lawmaker...
MrSpemat 5 months ago 6
Seems they have a Tea-Party also
TomMinderson 5 months ago
I wish our Government had this kinda of passion and urgency to get out Debt Ceiling BS straightened out!
w3bm0nk 6 months ago
kamikaze!!!!!!!!! followed by bird flu and SARS !!!!!!!! agggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhblagggghhhh!!!
jkyckhd69 6 months ago
THE DEVILS ALWAYS INTERRUPTION IN HUMAN ORGANIZATIONS
hey3184 6 months ago
What happened to the capital police ?
xanh01 8 months ago
hahhahahhaha,
SuperiorSquid 8 months ago
I like how Taiwanese people fight, there's a lot of pushing and waving of the arms. Oh and there's a lot of loud talking going on lol, this is the most timid fight ever.
Bret3333 9 months ago 6
They fail for life
Mrcool1997 10 months ago
I was in a taxi in Taipei and the driver asked how I felt about China and the 國民黨's goals of unification. I said I deeply believed Taiwan should reunify...
...with Japan. :D He didn't like that!
Tierdaen 11 months ago
i wonder how many people watched this after reading the article in cracked.com lol cause i know i did so
Malagon194 1 year ago
this country makes 90 percent of computers!!
cvhashim 1 year ago
LIU KANG WINS! FATALITY
escrete20000 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Quote:
@asmilesa
Tae Kwon Do is good but not for close-quarters fighting
I've watched Parliamentary sessions from all over the world and Taiwan politicians have the best punching technique, they really put their hips into it and try to punch right thru the opposing politician
loader200726 1 year ago
@loader200726 You should see how the Chinese PLA shoot at demonstrators from all four sides. Now that's what I call REAL action. The best part is one of the demonstrators survived to win an award (better than the Asian Games Award) 11 years later.
For all you Chinese Kung Fu fans out there, this one's for you.
watch?v=FJae9nFAQEc
raininthesouth 1 year ago
0:26
...The guy fell on his bottom.
notjackiechan 1 year ago
There's a lot of energy, but the execution of the shots is poor. It's a free-for-all. It's like going to a boxing match and the crowd are in the ring. They need to get their balance and take some proper shots. There's even a backhand punch. It's a girly shot.
h33I0 1 year ago
if it works...
TheMazurka 1 year ago
I think is how every country leaders should solve a problem, instead of sending people off to war to do their disagreement....you want things your way? Use your fists...and feet. xD lol
Beautifultear22 1 year ago 3
This is pretty tyical in Taiwan parliament meetings. If it were China, you would practically be shot by the guards for causing a raucous.
ibislee 1 year ago
vasi jacky !!!!
xmamanx1988 1 year ago
This is what it's like, to have your political representative truly fight for, you and your issues. I'll bet these politicians get much "RESPECT" from members of the opposite side. Not like here, where you are repeatedly "sold-out" by so-called compromises and negotiations.
458northmain 1 year ago
Contrary to what some people here seem to think Taiwan is not part of China. It is an independent country. Taiwan is all that is left of an independent free China after Mao's thugs took over. If there is ever a reunification control of China should be given to Taiwan, as the KMT are the legitimate rulers of the whole of China.
mrdiscus66 1 year ago
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha ich hette da alle geschaft
chechenjunge 1 year ago
Why can't this happen in the UK lol.
Primus2X 1 year ago
hahahahahaha
bemy1111 1 year ago
LOOOOOOL!
what a shit parliament
QiQi123456 1 year ago
They are just passionate about their country thats all. I wonder why the media in China dont even cover any scandals related to the politicians there. Oh wait, because the media there are state-run.
BasketballStud99 1 year ago
That is Democracy no?
Before a bill is pass you DEBATE it and publicly broadcast the session.
Mwaterfall 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Taiwanese people are monkeys.
shofer 1 year ago
ima sleep now. i dunno what time it is there, but here, it's late late night.
chat with ya later, if you're still willing ;))
DuhLie 1 year ago
i love those ppl who writes 3 paragraphs about this dumbass video
kevaster23 1 year ago
They were having fun out there.
ivantide 1 year ago
This shows that Taiwan legislators have no idea what a true democracy is about. It does not mean you can do anything you want. Btw, democracy (self-rule) is NOT capitalism (capitalize for personal profit), and communism (serve community) is NOT dictatorship. Sometimes dictatorship is preferable to self-rule. People in power must think communism to ensure public welfare and safety, but allow capitalism to motivate workers.
OnePeopleOneChina 1 year ago
@pal2011 Taiwan independence is not the enemy of China. If your family is from Fujian, let me tell you this. Today, Taiwan independence supporters live mainly in the south. In southern cities like 台南 and 高雄 many towns have names like: 左營庄, 前鋒庄, 後協庄, 前鎮庄, 右衝庄. Where do these names come from? These are 明鄭時代軍鎮屯墾(營盤田)地名. What does that tell you? Most DPP supporters are descendants of the 郑成功 army that went to Taiwan and the local aborigines people. These are the so-called "enemies of China."
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth haha I actually knew that. But my early years in China have instilled too much pride in me as a 'Chinese' that I'm never going to be pro DPP. By this I don't necessarily mean 中国人in a national sense, more like 华人in a cultural sense. In the end, I like to daydream that if the KMT killed the communists, I could live in luxury in a big house in Fujian withs servants >>.<<
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 Some people are going to kill me for saying this but I think Fujianese should leave China or become independent like Taiwan, Singapore, Malaysia. Because these areas are separate from China, they're able to better preserve Chinese culture. If they are now all unified under China, I guarantee you the Minnan language will disappear very soon. Beijing is now forcing Cantonese TV stations to use Mandarin. It's sad but true. They are only using Minnan culture to unify Taiwan.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth This is true not only for Fujuanese and Cantonese, but also Shanghainese (where I live and experienced this), Manchus, Tibetans, Uighurs etc... The CPC wants to erase everyone's subculture and make everyone model Beijing people who love Mao Zedong. It sucks.
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 You know why 張銘清 got hit when he came to Taiwan? Because he gives speeches like "閩南文化圈建設的戰略構想". 閩南文化戰略構想?? Like I said, Beijing is only using Fujian and Minnan culture to unify Taiwan. They have no respect for the Minnan culture, Cantonese culture, or Chinese culture. 台南 is a city of culture so that's why the people of 台南 hate a swindler like 張銘清. He came to Taiwan with war in mind. 戰略? If he came for war then he got what he deserved. What's he complaining about?
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth While I would like to do the same to some CPC officials, I still don't violence is the way to go. It has far too negative a connotation when used on media. They could've done a sit-in like Martin Luther King did and achieve more positive results. You know why western media only cares about Tibetans and ignores all other minorities/subcultures in China being erased? Because Tibetans are seemingly peaceful with all the monks and things. The peaceful resistance thing works.
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 Peaceful resistance works in the West. It doesn't work with Chinese governments (like CCP and KMT). If you sit there peacefully, they will first ignore you, then they will accuse you of obstructing traffic. If you keep sitting there they will call you an enemy of China. Next they will come talk to you to give you a final warning to go home. If you go home, they will arrest you the next day and shoot you. If you stay, they will deploy the troops and send all foreign reporters home.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth Well true. Peaceful resistance did not work at beginning at all in the states, they grabbed the protesters, hosed them down with water, and threw them in jail. But it is these photos that got around the country and grinded down public opinion later to pass all the imporant bills. What you describe is def true still on mainland, but surely they don't do that on Taiwan these days?
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 Taiwan's democracy is a lot more fragile than you think. The DPP was not formed until 1986, just three years before the Tiananmen incident. Before that, there was only KMT dictatorship. Taiwanese people had their first election in 1996, 10 years after the DPP was formed. Taiwan democracy is really only 14 years old. Today, everyone takes it for granted. No one sees how many lives were sacrificed in this struggle for democracy and how much we're about to lose.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth 14 years may seem shortish, but in terms of new democracies go, that's quite respectable. Taiwan actually have had peaceful transitions of power other than the real fragile democracies in where 1 power transition leads to chaos and civil war. A recent example would be Kyrgyzstan. Democracies need to respect the each other while in charge for it to work. Violence->chaos->topple regime->maybe another dictatorial regime and detroy the democracy. The key I think is still peace.
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 Today, Chinese see the fruit of our labor. They think Taiwan has been democratic the day KMT arrived. Nothing could be further from the truth. 江南案, 林宅血案, 陳文成命案, 王羽刺許案, 鄭南榕自焚 incidents all happened within the past 30 years. Today, many of DDP politicians have been political prisoners of KMT or have had family members brutally murdered by KMT.
謀殺《蔣經國傳》作者江南
台灣演義: 林義雄 P1
台灣演義：陳文成命案(1/3)
1/3 鄭南榕殉道二十週年追思-焚
Are these things of the past? Find this article online.
護衛陳雲林 紅衣少年現身鎮瀾宮
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@pal2011 Let me be honest with you, the day the CCP and KMT get together will be the day misfortune befalls all Chinese and Taiwanese people. Mark my word. You Chinese are too naive. You have no idea what the KMT is capable of or rather you have forgotten this fact. Find this YouTube video.
【中国禁闻】绝密！中共对国民党的统战手段
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth I think history goes forwards, not backwards. Both the CPC regime and the KMT regime are terrible sure, but they're both improvements to the old dynasty/empire system (kmt still better than cpc....). While remembering the past, I'm hoping the mainland one day do develop a 2-party system, maybe even with CPC vs KMT. Anyways, you forget that I'm an American now and just watching this as an interested observer.
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 I came to U.S. at age of 9. Why do I care about what's going on over there? Because it concerns all of us. People do not learn from history. For a country like China that prides itself in its long history and tradition, modern day Chinese (and some Taiwanese) have especially short-term memory. China is on a collision course with America. There are now over 14 countries holding military exercises in the region. There is a movie called Red Dawn coming out later this year as well.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth idk...your Chinese and history seems surprisingly deep for someone who came here at age 9. So you don't want China to fight the US either, is that what I'm hearing? The best way for that NOT to happen is simple - no formal independence declaration. Green camp need to realize that even if they win with absolute majority, such a declaration would accomplish nothing (since Taiwan enjoys de facto independence already) other than starting a war.
pal2011 1 year ago
@raininthesouth if green camp win again, they can just repeal efca...I don't think there's any permendent damage here at all. Also note that I don't think the '14 countries' have much vested interest to defend Taiwan. Most of them don't give much a hoot. In fact, I don't think there's even enough political will in the US to start a war with China, its largest trading partner + bond buyer.
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 U.S. doesn't want to start an actual war with China, however the U.S. is now playing another kind of war. U.S. plans to dominate the Fuel and Food market in the future and control China this way. You may not know this but the Chinese government is aware of this and is worried. China cannot supply 5% of its food and depends on foreign import. U.S. controls the fast overseas food market. If U.S. cuts China off, over 6000 million Chinese will starve.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth
"cannot supply 5% of its food and depends on foreign import."
lol, nope. if that's the case, food would be very expensive there. for example, China is the biggest rice producer, and most of this staple is consumed within the country. however, they still even have a little bit left to export it. although in down-seasons, China does need to import grain, however, the government made policies to increase grain production over other crops (high-value crops are meant for export).
DuhLie 1 year ago
@pal2011 Fuel-wise, U.S. is now blockading the Indian Ocean, South China sea, and China Sea. That's why China is seeking cooperation with Pakistan to build a new railway to transport oil. U.S. and China are two countries on a definite collision course. Taiwan may be a trigger point, like the two Koreas. No one knows what can happen next. U.S. has already deployed its nuclear submarines to the region with over 462 missiles. It's unfortunate for small countries like Taiwan, and even Korea.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth If you're so paranoid about this war, then why are you anti KMT-CPC rapproachment? Do you just want some overzealous politician from DPP pulling this 'trigger' by declaring formal independence? It just takes 1 stupid politician to start this war.
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 Being realistic does not mean that I am paranoid. Facts are facts. The fuel war with China is something U.S. has stared a while back. I don't think you should blame the DPP and not the corrupt CPP and KMT gang. CPP could easily hold off on this reunification plan. They want to push everything too fast so now the situation becomes overheated. Just like how they try to push the economy too fast causing inflation. That's chewing off more than you can swallow.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth cpc has held off reunification for 60 years and all they want right now is more 'status quo.' The burden now rests on DPP and the Taiwanese people to lay off on the immediate independence plan. As soon as that's gone, there will be no need for CPC to put the military pressure at all. Or how about, China and Taiwan lay off our plans at the same time through talks?
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 China should hold off on the Taiwan issue, focus on developing a more democratic political system and stabilizing economy from within, improve unequal wealth distribution and strengthening cooperation abroad including with potential rivals like the U.S. Instead because of Taiwan and North Korean issue, China is willing to give up everything to go head to head with the U.S. This is simply not the right time. All it does is create instability in the region. Wait for a better time.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth I agree with most of that. Except that when the 'better time' comes up Taiwan will be totally independent. Is it stupid to risk everything for Taiwan? yes ofc. But is CPC gonan do it ofc... so why are DPP not seeing this and wanting a major war on the island? I really don't know.
pal2011 1 year ago
@pal2011 Many Taiwanese say the DPP and the Taiwan Green Party is actually the pro-Japan Party. That's why they will fight to the death for so-called independence.
OnePeopleOneChina 1 year ago
@OnePeopleOneChina DPP makes no secret about being pro-Japan. You don't have to whisper. In China, being pro-Japan is equivalent to being a war criminal. In Taiwan, if you're pro-Japan you're in good company. Why should it be a big surprise that Taiwan is pro-Japan? Our history is different than China. All the political leaders that came to Taiwan like Koxinga and Chiang Kai-Shek are all opposition forces to mainland. Koxinga is even half-Japanese. What do you expect?
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@OnePeopleOneChina Half of Koxinga's family still lives in Japan today. My family is part of the half that lives in Taiwan. As a Ming loyalist, Koxinga's father and mother were both killed in China. The end of MIng dynasty means our story with China ends there. Part of old Ming dynasty culture survived in Taiwan but China became a foreign land to us. Today, Taiwan's story with Japan is a complex one. It's not something Chinese can understand. See this video on YouTube
映画『トロッコ』予告編
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth i think you're forgetting a good piece of history after the Qing Dynasty......and that is the Republic of China. i know you didn't forget, since you mentioned CKS to me.
just like what Koxinga would have wanted, the Chinese regained control of China, which includes the island of Taiwan. Sun Yat-Sen continued Koxinga's war, in a way and achieved his goal. at least the KMT still hold true to their values (even their party's name says it all).
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie I also think you left out a very important part of what I said "When Ming dynasty collapsed, their tie with China was severed as well. Taiwan became their new homeland. They married local aborigines and made Taiwan their new home."
Today the myth that Taiwanese are genetically identical to Chinese is a lie. I am not aware at this time of a large-scale genetic study that compares Taiwanese and Chinese DNA. Such study should be relatively easy to conduct and would end all disputes.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth Taiwanese look Chinese, they speak in Chinese languages, they write in Chinese characters.....you only wish their common genetically identity with the Chinese is a lie. whatever floats your boat yo ;)
how was their tie with China severed after the Ming? they were still part of the Qing, and them became part of the Republic of China. the fact alone that you shared history with China already debunked with your "no history with China" statement.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie All Asian countries have historical ties with each other. All European nations fought wars with each other and have historical and blood ties through royal marriages. What's more, if you're talking about past territory, can Great Britain claim America, Canada, Australia, India, Pakistan, parts of Africa, and Israel as part of the British territory today? Can you say Americans are genetically identical to British? Some people look white but have 1/2 Cherokee blood.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth @raininthesouth bare in mind that those British colonies were actually very far from Britain itself. but yeah, many whites in the US came from Anglos. but obviously, the US today is a melting pot of too many people. Northern Ireland is still part of Great Britain though (maybe it's because of it's close vicinity?).
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie As far as your argument that Taiwanese look Chinese. Like I said, genetic studies alone is sufficient to settle this argument. Like I said, should we deny our aboriginal ancestry? It is not a question of if but how much blood ties we have with the aboriginal people. As far as my family is concerned, my grandfather looks very Japanese. If I show you a picture you will know what I mean. My grandmother looks aborigines, not Chinese at all. We're southern Taiwanese.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth yet you don't have the sufficient genetic studies.
so how much blood ties do you actually have with aboriginal people?? yeah, not that much, well, not the majority at least. maybe your one of the "special ones", who knows.
and it's weird, as almost pointless as you make your aborigine roots sounds, it's nothing compared to your Japanese-roots argument. what exactly does Japan have to do with this?
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie I suggest that before such a study is conducted, let's not be too hasty to conclude that Taiwanese are all Chinese. Preliminary study by one group concluded that nearly 85% of individuals on Taiwan island have aboriginal blood ties. That's excluding pure-blooded aboriginese who also live on the island. If we're all Chinese then what do you make of the part of us that isn't Chinese. Should we deny our aboriginal ancestry and just call ourselves Chinese?
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth there's also a study that over 95% of Taiwan's population is ethnic Han. of that group, many of them are Hokkien and Hakka, who's ancestors came from parts of Fujian and Guangdong provinces.
only less than 3% are aborigines, but even they now have been assimilated. the KMT nor the DPP didn't do jack to preserve their language, for one example.
the real question is, should you deny your Chinese ancestry (which is more undoubtedly present)?
the real question is,
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie In all likelihood Taiwanese today have mixed ancestry. I do not deny part of my mother's side descends from Koxinga. However, I also do not deny that both my mother and father's side have Taiwan aboriginal blood. We may not be a new race but we're at least ethnicity, culturally, and historically distinct from China. To ask us Taiwanese to continue Sun Yat-Sen's legacy which mainland China has abandoned seems rather ludicrous.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth the mainland hasn't abandoned SYS's legacy. why else would he be honored? given the fact that the KMT is the ruling party, it just shows that there is still hope in Taiwan (in all honesty, Chen Shui Bian's monkey business doesn't make people hopeful either).
i don't even dream of the DPP to follow a step of SYS's path. it'd be an insult to him. the pan-green coalition is everything that's wrong in that island.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie DPP shouldn't follow SYS's path because that's China's unfinished business. If KMT wants to finish SYS's work, good. Go back to China first then they can save all those poor Chinese they abandoned in 1947. With a population 60 times that of Taiwan, Chinese needs our help? Taiwan, with a total population 1.5-2.0% that of China's consisting of people of mixed ancestry, is expected to save China? You're kidding right? Pardon us for our disloyalty to your cause.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth hold on, i didn't know how you just bridged a gap between the KMT/SYS's work with the argument of the mainland needing the island's help lol.
KMT never left China in the first place. they are after all still in an island part of the Republic of China.
and no, despite the KMT took many of the countries fortunes and fled to Taiwan, despite the island's help from foreigners, the mainland doesn't expect the island to save them. this video shows the opposite of that, in fact :)
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Chinese think all Asians look Chinese and should therefore call themselves Chinese and hand over their land. The Tibetans, Uighurs, Mongols, a total of 56 ethnicities are all considered Chinese. Isn't China's problem today overpopulation? As if though that's not enough, Chinese government also claims Vietnam as an "inseparable part of China" . I can send you the YouTube video. If Europeans think like that they'd have a nation by now too.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth nope, the Chinese don't think all Asians look Chinese. where did you get that from? the 56 ethnicities live in China, but only one of them is Han, one of them is Tibetan, Uyghurs, etc etc. it adds up to 56, hence "56" :)
over 1 billion of the Chinese population are Han, and only they have to follow the one-child policy. that's how they're trying to solve overpopulation (i don't really know how our discussion got to this).
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie I don't think you can call Koxinga a Chinese or a Japanese. He is both. I suggest you take a look at these excellent videos on YouTube. You'll understand Taiwan is a mix of everything and its culture is distinct, even from that of Fujian province. I've given you a mix of everything to be fair so you can see for yourself what's the same what's not.
只要大家攏吃台灣米 (MV)
映画『トロッコ』予告編
三條崙海青宮慶成入火安座大典
月琴演唱-思想起
天下珍惜台灣演唱會_謝宇威：問卜歌
天下珍惜台灣演唱會_泰武國小古謠傳唱隊
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth Koxinga is a Ming (Han Chinese) loyalist. he was fighting for the Ming, not for some kind of Taiwanese identity separate that of Ming. that's why he fought against the Dutch and the Manchus. that's why the only part i'm confused is why the dpp would like him? you even admitted similarities of Koxinga and SYS/CKS of the KMT. if you dislike the KMT, then.....
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie I don't know how many times I have to emphasize this but Koxinga is half Chinese half Japanese. He is not one or the other. Chinese always have a convenient way of overlooking anything that's not Chinese. Like I said, Tainan is Koxinga's capital. Who do you think lives in Tainan today? His descendants are all DPP, funny huh? Myself included. I am sorry but I wasn't aware of SYS's ambition to annex Taiwan. Did he make a speech about Taiwan that I didn't know about?
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@DuhLie Ok, I am going to go do my thing. Sometimes people's viewpoints are just too different. DPP does have a point. We are not standing on the same plane so obviously what I see is not what you see and vice versa. To say we're all Chinese regardless of history, culture, genetics, personal identity is to negate all these differences. I think there are enough Chinese in the world. What's another 23 million? But then again, I am Taiwanese and you're Chinese. That's the difference.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth and Taiwan is not a country. that's the reality :)
damn, it sounds like you're quitting on me? i thought you had more in ya ;))
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Like I said, neither of us can convince the other person so in the end, what's the point? Like I said, to ask us Taiwanese to be loyal to China is impossible. China is a foreign country to me. I have no plan of ever setting foot on that country in this lifetime, not even to visit. My aunt told me that the Chinese who visit Taiwan complain everywhere they go and wave their flag in an over-zealous and embarrassing way. That's Chinese for you. Sorry we just can't identify with you.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth nothing wrong about you being Taiwanese....you're just merely showing what province you're living in. that's about it.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Taiwan can have a close alliance with China, that I don't oppose. However, I don't agree that Taiwan has to become part of China. That's totally unnecessary. Especially in light of the fact that China's political system and social structure is unstable. What's good for China may not be what's good for Taiwan. I still think people in Taiwan should have their own voice and their own national identity. I love Taiwan just the way it is now, a truly unique mix of cultures.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth if you "love Taiwan just the way it is now", then you should at least be in support of the status quo.
if you support the dpp, it'll just destroy the island.
if you don't oppose a close alliance with China, then why would you support the dpp? you're probably against this trade deal between them. look at the dpp in this video. obviously, China's booming economy is good for Taiwan, so isn't this trade deal a good start?
look at this video, is this a stable political system????
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Does making Taiwan a province make you Chinese get high or something? What's China with or without Taiwan? Why the obsession? Tell me. The world wants to know too. We're all puzzled by the Chinese's strange obsession with Taiwan. Watch this BBC interview on YouTube.
China at War over Taiwan
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth
dpp is the one with the weird obsession being anti-China, even up to the point of racism. now you guys are really high on something lol.
it'd be best if you didn't visit China anyways. while mainlanders visits Taiwan and vice versa. and even do business...a lot of it, as you should know by now.
there's no need in convincing you and the likes. internationally, most countries recognizes the PRC, for those who don't, they recognize the ROC.
*emphasis on both of the letter C's*
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie I could support the status quo if China doesn't pull moves like ECFA and MOU. It is exactly treaties like these that make me believe DPP should declare independence. We all know what ECFA is about. It amounts to an economic war. What kind of status quo is that? China tries to barricade Taiwan diplomatically and economically. That's why I don't feel bad the U.S. is doing exactly the same thing to China right now.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth actually, as the US owes trillions, they can't really do what they used to do lol. so you can feel good about it, what's left of it.
btw, if you think about it, the KMT looks even more enthusiastic about the efca than the communists. in fact, after the signing, they wanted to discuss more things in the future but the mainland delegation wanted to take things one by one. no need to be hasty i guess.
efca gives you an economy, as oppose to.......none?
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie U.S. and Japan both owe a lot of money but are these poor countries? Of course not, in all measures of wealth these are extremely wealthy countries. In contrast, China's wealth is only concentrated in a few. 1% of China's population holds 40% of the nation's wealth while the remaining 99% shares the 60% that's left. Everyone sees Beijing and Shanghai but what about the rest of China? When 1/5 of the world's population shares 60% of a nation's wealth is this a wealthy country?
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth don't confuse the wealth of a country with the wealth of individuals. for a population of over a billion people in a developing country, what do you expect? but if you refrain from looking at people's wallets and start looking at the state's wallet, there's a difference. that's where influences in economy, policy, and military starts to shine. US is still "rich" yes, but they can't even pay the loans that they owe.
i wonder how far more important the Sino-US relations are....
DuhLie 1 year ago
Comment removed
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@DuhLie China's economic scale is large, but without equal distribution of wealth China is no different than Saudi Arabia and Mexico. Some of the world's richest people are from countries like these. Obviously wealth isn't measured by sheer scope or by individual holdings. Without equal distribution of wealth, China will always be poor. We Taiwanese understand this that's why we are not falling on our knees thanking China. KMT supports ECFA because most of that wealth goes into their pockets.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth have you even seen the increasing wealth gap in the US?
in any case, you always blame either the CCP or the KMT of greed and corruption. while Chen Shui Bian is a saint.....right. yeah, his wife might plead guilty, but him, naaah, he's a saint.
of the +/- 800 items discussed in the ecfa, 500+ are Taiwanese products and only 200+ products from the mainland. but politics as usual make it seem more than what it is.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie I think the funny thing about ECFA is this. China is roughly 60 times the size of Taiwan in terms of population. Taiwan's population size is 1.5-2.0% that of China's. Does it make any sense that they give us 500+ and we give them about half. Seems like a good deal, if you don't know how to do math. Think about it. Taiwan only has 1.5-2.0% of China's population! What kind of shitty deal is this? Did I mention the political cost? That's priceless. What a good deal for China!
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth so you think all of the +/- 800 items in the ecfa should be all from Taiwan? or do you think you want the island to sell all of it's products to the mainland, with little or no tariffs, while the mainland can't sell any in return? if you think that, then what kind of a trade deal is that?
well, since you talked about population, you at least know some of the realization of the island's situation. you "can't be trouble-makers", as President Ma had put it. what else can you do?
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie ECFA is not a business deal, it's a political tool. I have always kept this fact in mind. The items are there to distract the Taiwanese public from realizing what's going on. Don't worry, China is getting a good deal, anyway you look at it. I am not deceived on this issue because I know the facts. In China, if you're the ethnic, political, or social minority, then you're automatically labeled troublemaker. I guess by this definition, Taiwan is the trouble-maker, sure.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth nope, the dpp are trouble-makers lol. i'm surprised you still didn't get my drift out of all this time. i got no beef with the kmt, you see. nice try in bringing other "ethnic, political, or social minority" in your team. play the victim all you want, no one cares anyway.
newsflash, any economic deals nowadays always has something to do with politics. yes, keep that in mind.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Is corruption worse in China or Taiwan? I can send you like a million articles which I have meticulously collected over time if you don't know the answer. Chinese talk about Chen Shui Bian case every day. If you want to know about Chinese corruption, ask me. I know this subject so well I can probably get a degree on this. That's why don't even tell me about corruption in Taiwan. Argue about something else you know more about.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth you're the one who brought up the corruption issues. a dpp supporter talking about other people's corruption has no edge.
i didn't deny any corruption in China. there's lots of it, trust me. you think it's easy to manage a country with that size? not that i'm using that as an excuse in anyway.
in China, they usually put a bullet through a corrupted official's head. in Taiwan, they get re-elected..
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie In China, they put a bullet through a corrupt official's head if that official happens to be a convenient scapegoat. Don't worry, Jiang Zeming and his son will never get jailed for anything. They make President Chen look like an amateur. How bad is China's corruption? As mentioned, 40% of China's wealth today is in the hands of 1% of the people. One-third of bad debt in China are due to embezzled, fraudulent, falsified, or bribe money. How much money is that? Over $15 billion.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth convenient scapegoat? yes, maybe sometimes. but for many occasions, those guys are actually corrupt. they like to be efficient in the process, and they don't like bureaucratic red tape.
Taiwan has a relatively small population, "free and democratic", yet guys like Chen still exists? he pushes for independence to divert people's attention from his corruption. even his wife plead guilty, while riding a wheelchair in court....
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Before Chinese gloat about President Chen's corruption case I just want to remind them half of 4 x 10^16 dollars that was supposed to go into the stimulus package for recession in China went into the pockets of corrupt officials instead.
2 x 10^16 is a lot of money, to put it mildly. All gone. Both Taiwanese and South Korean president need to go to China to get a degree on corruption. They really suck at it.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth in other words, before you show off how great your system is, how free and democratic you are, you should set a better example. better than Chen, at least. lol....his hunger-strike in prison. what's worse is that you're in a way defending a guy like Chen.
btw, i dunno where you get your numbers from, but i'm sure a larger number goes into development. there's still corruption there, i'm not denying that. but developing the middle-class is the aim right now.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie KMT wants to showcase Taiwan's democracy to the world. It's pretty pathetic because less than 30 years ago they were still jailing and assassinating people, even going as far as coming to the U.S. to murder political opponents. Look up Henry Liu on Wikipedia. What democracy? We real Taiwanese could care less about what goes on in China. You think we want to showcase our "democracy" to China? So what? We can go back to China as victors? That's KMT's dream, not ours.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth well, the typical rhetoric of the dpp is about democracy, and how much it's not communist or whatever. you're always comparing to something you can't compete with. seeing as how much the dpp would like to put this in their medias, isn't that a form of showcasing?
and you might blame the democratically elected kmt for now, but even the dpp didn't have a choice back then, or even in the future if they ever get elected again (heaven forbid).
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie You've never been to Taiwan, have you? Local Taiwanese treat Chinese like foreigners. At best Taiwanese are curious, at worst openly hostile towards Chinese. Most are indifferent. If you watch TV you will see what you want to see, KMT shaking hands with Chinese counterparts like long lost brothers. Reality is very different. Taiwanese don't usually tell you what they're thinking inside. If you want to believe what's on TV, go ahead.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth no, i haven't been to Taiwan, yet. but i do have some Taiwanese friends here, my fellow "Hua Ren" (even in my work place). but of course, i've never met anyone like you though. but i guess you can blame me for being selective, that's fair enough. we usually don't talk about politics though, because it really doesn't matter.
but you haven't been to China either. well, i guess you don't know what they're "thinking inside". similarly, there's a best, a worst, not really indifferent.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie I can already tell you there will be trouble ahead as KMT tries to get closer with China. Something is already simmering, about to boil over in Taiwan. As a native Taiwanese, I always side with DPP. We would rather let President Chen take our money than let KMT hurt more Taiwanese. Wherever Taiwanese go, even in China, we stick together and protect our own community's interest. That's just the way it is. Jews do the same in America. Call it law of nature.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth trust me, Chen and the dpp would be the ones who'd really hurt the Taiwanese. if you want people like him to take you money, lol okay then.
speaking about the Taiwanese in China, why would they even be there if most of them don't like that place, as you sort of imply? i don't see a "Taiwantown" anywhere. it's a Chinatown, a close community protecting it's own interest ;))) i'm pretty sure you've been there hehe.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@raininthesouth btw, since you like to talk about the KMT's dark history (i know about Henry Liu, not a native of Taiwan, mind you lol), i hope you know about the DPP's history too....who supported them, initially ;)))
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie I know Henry Liu is not Taiwanese. My point is that KMT is corrupt and this was a case of political assassination. What is your point? How about 林宅血案, 陳文成命案, 王羽刺許案, 鄭南榕自焚? These incidents all happened within the past 30 years. Today, many of DDP politicians have been political prisoners of KMT or have had family members brutally murdered by KMT. Even though you Chinese won't look at these cases, here are the videos on YouTube.
台灣演義: 林義雄 P1
台灣演義：陳文成命案(1/3)
1/3 鄭南榕殉道二十週年追思-焚
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth kmt is corrupt, ccp is corrupt, and of course, the dpp is corrupt too. it's just funny how a "deep green party member" such as yourself can be so devoted to a political party, a party that was once supported by the ccp lol. how pathetic can the dpp get?
the day your "biggest fear" becomes true, you can always *immolate* yourself in your parent's basement. the whole dpp should do that. ya know, to stand up for their beliefs haha. then there'd finally be peace lol.
dpp=fail.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Who doesn't know CCP used to support DPP? Why? Because they want to use DPP to oppose KMT. Then what happened? CCP backstabbed DPP and started flirting around with KMT. CCP is like a slut that likes to sleep around. KMT knows CCP is a slut but now wants CCP back because they're desperate. So now the loser and the slut are together again. How touching...
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth i thought you would "cease all conversations with Chinese" because it's a waste of your time. well, i guess i'm glad you're wasting your time on me :)
the ccp realized that the dpp are truly the biggest form of back-stabbing there is. imagine, no ccp, no dpp. how pathetic the dpp are.
yes, the ccp and the kmt have had a long and dark history, but at least both have a mutual respect and both of them don't respect the dpp.
dpp only gets respect from rejects like Lee Teng Hui lol.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie
No offense but the KMT and the CCP had been arch enemies only until Ma became the president. The KMT is keeping ties with the CCP now because the DDP was the real rival of the KMT. Mutual respect in politics simply doesnt exist.
BasketballStud99 1 year ago
@BasketballStud99 fine, i'll give Ma the credit then. who cares lol. what difference does it make?
Lee Teng Hui, while being a member of the KMT, suppressed the DPP, in a way, up until he joined the pan-green faction with his TSU. so yeah, politics is stupid that way.
but one thing the blues and reds got in common is that they don't deny their Chinese heritage. that's all that matters to most Chinese i think, in terms of political parties, or even non political things.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie You can make fun of Dalai Lama all you want but even you know the American public has nothing bad to say about Dalai Lama. In fact, he has a lot of fans here in the U.S. Can't say the same for Wen Jiabao, Hu Jintao, and Jiang Zemin. No matter how hard you try, you can't change people's perception of China. This is what Americans think of when you mention China.
"SpongeBob Square Pants in China"
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth American public has nothing bad to say?
what about this:
-watch?v=RIVq_eV5bQc
-watch?v=rqGDDjYzi1g
-watch?v=0sdKnhNK16o
lol, they have nothing to say because it only appears that way. if you watch these videos (highly not promoted in America, i guess), then you'll see that at least i have less biased sources haha.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Asian countries like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore all welcome U.S. presence in the Pacific. Even China is worried now that the U.S. has positioned 60% of its naval resources in the Asian Pacific region. As a Taiwanese and American, I support the policies of this country. Again, everyone should take a look at the level of lawlessness and corruption in China. It's downright frightening. Don't let the Chinese fool you. They're hiding a lot from the world.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth the US owing trillions, i highly doubt they start a war. even if China does invade Taiwan, they'd probably do nothing.
in any case, the American presence there just makes China develop more, militarily lol. there are other countries (that's right, there's more than one) that don't want the US there though. why not mention them? of course, you are a US lapdog. good girl.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Again. Take a look at these YouTube videos. China's corruption is truly unsurpassed anywhere in the world.
【外国记者和北京访民短兵相接】
【中国禁闻】佩洛西访华 北京数千访民示威喊冤
【禁闻】暴打官夫人 公安道歉打错了
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth why did you even post the same 3 videos again when you just sent them 3 comments ago. lol.
becoming a little repetitive are we? not to mention skipping to a different topic after i refute everyone single one of them. try refuting mine for a change? you can't? i don't blame you :)
bring it on, i could use a laugh :)
btw, i wonder maybe mainlanders are going to invest heavily in Taiwan. yeah, buying up the place. 2nd stage of ecfa maybe? haha.
DuhLie 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@DuhLie If you want a laugh go watch the "SpongeBob Square Pants in China" cartoon on YouTube. It's pretty funny. Chinese are pretty full of themselves, for third world country citizens. Mainlanders going to Taiwan to invest? Sure, for a change. Why not? They all want to immigrate to Taiwan cause life in China sucks. As far as news reporting, images don't lie. We saw what we saw. They didn't hire those peasants as actors. The 暴打官夫人 news was major news all over China.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth i don't know why your comment got flagged, lol, but who hired peasants as actors? who said anything of hiring actors?? are you making up things and blaming me for it? maybe you're reading/hearing things....like, out of nowhere.
if you took your time to read my replies (it doesn't take that much time), i said i don't deny any of those.
BTW, if it was major news all over China, then why did you say that they're embarrassed to show it??
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Look, if you Chinese love your government, that's your problem. Just stay away from us, please. We would hate to live under that kind of system. KMT is enough for us to deal with as it is. China is like an ugly woman that no man wants. Stop chasing after Taiwan. Those embarrassing news reports about Chinese corruption are done by foreign journalists and Taiwanese newspapers stationed in China. Of course the government wouldn't show that kind of stuff, are you kidding me?
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth there you go again. if the Chinese government wouldn't show that stuff, then how would it possibly be shown all over China? as you JUST SAID. trust me, if the government doesn't want to show it, then not even foreign or Taiwanese media can broadcast it in China. lol, i don't even need to say anything, you can already contradict yourself lol.
i like both ccp and kmt lol. as you know, the kmt still has their mission to come back! :D and the ccp have their own mission too.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@raininthesouth " China is like an ugly woman that no man wants."
>>> are you saying that out of experience?
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie As far as reading your replies, sorry, not going to go into details. I don't have any respect for Chinese. People like you guys have no morals. As a whole, Taiwanese are more decent and respectable. I used to work in a lab where the Chinese would come to me and tell me all sorts of bad things about fellow Chinese. They badmouth and distrust each other. They never help other people. In fact, they rely on Taiwanese to help them when they need help instead of each other.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth bingo! you did exactly what i said you would.
you wouldn't bother replying, but instead, talk about stuff like how "Taiwanese are so good, and how Chinese are so bad" in one of your life's experiences. only heaven knows if these experiences are actually true.
then you go on talking about your ancestry, then the Japanese, then Americans, and then send me some random videos of ntdtv.....
btw, we help each other to ensure Taiwan will always be part of China :D
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie No, we Taiwanese help China out of a sense of duty. It's what we've been taught as children. My father once gave $200 to a Mexican migrant worker and gave him a ride because he said that was the right thing to do. My husband and I support a middle school boy in China. Not because we like China or Chinese. You can tell what my attitude is towards Chinese in general. I did it for the same reason my dad did what he did. To put it simply, it's our social duty.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth now i thought you said you didn't even have anything to do with China!
then all of a sudden, you tell me you and your husband support a boy in China? where did this come from? :) well, that's good to hear, if it's true that is. i mean, would you believe someone who thinks would support a person/while while they say that those people are "disgusting"? i mean, if it is true, doesn't that make you a hypocrite. it totally negates that purpose of that "social duty"like an empty smile.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Trust me, I struggle inside with this decision. I told my husband many times I have a difficult time continuing with this decision. I am disgusted with what the Chinese have become. Don't think people like us don't know Chinese culture. We probably know it better than you. However, the fact that the communist and people like you now claim to represent it made us realize that sadly, it is time to part with the name Chinese. What is left of this culture in China is merely the name.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth if you knew more about Chinese culture than any other, why would you want an identity separate that of China?
no, the dpp doesn't know Chinese culture at all. you for example, have literally discredited Taiwan's history with China (read what you posted a few days ago). not only that, you even would go as far as denying a blood line.
no no, in Taiwan, the ones who know about Chinese culture are the kmt and the pan-blue faction. dpp would be seen as traitors, more than anything.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Today's China is a total disgrace. Revival? You mean making up culture as you go along? In Taiwan, tradition is passed down from one generation to the next. Unfortunately, China's disconnect with its own cultural past made its claim to Taiwan rather unconvincing. Taiwan's separation from China was inevitable and necessary. How far has China strayed from its past? Today the Japanese are more Confucian than Chinese. Disgraceful!
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth today, the Japanese are more western lol.
being that the Chinese still speak the Chinese languages (not Mongolian or Manchurian), they still write in Hanzi, follow and promote ancient Chinese values, i'd say it's a good revival.
what is Taiwan's tradition? yeah, Chinese traditions. on the contrary, that's why reunification is inevitable and necessary.
ECFA is just the first step, as you know haha.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie The Japanese do not want to associate themselves with the Chinese either even though their culture is more authentically Han than China's culture. The Kimono they wear is closer to Hanfu than China's Qipao. China today is a foreign country to Han tradition. It's a tragedy and irony at the same time. Of course I know China's history, and that is why I adamantly oppose calling myself Chinese today. It is a symbol of shame, downright shame.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth you're the symbol of downright shame. can you even listen to yourself?
btw, fyi, there's a Hanfu revival in China that started somewhere around 2003 i think. the Manchus (who banned wearing Hanfu during the Qing dynasty) can still wear their qipao, but the Chinese now are proud of wearing the Hanfu, which is far older than the Qipao.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie As I have mentioned before, Roger Y. Tsien, Nobel laureate from U.S. and current president of Academia Sinica in Taiwan also made the following claim when pressed by a Chinese reported "Mr. Tsien, are you Chinese? Do you speak Chinese? What does your accomplishments entail for Chinese scientists?" Mr. Tsien answered "I am not a Chinese scientist. I was born and raised in America." This statement caused some uproar from patriotic Chinese at the time.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth Qian Sanqiang once said "Science had no national boundaries, but a scientist had his or her Motherland.".
you can also read about Qian Xuesen or Deng Jiaxian.
all of these were scientist. remember, Qian Xuesen co-founded the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Caltech. :)) but he returned to his motherland.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie I understand what Roger Tsien means when he said "I am not a Chinese scientist." He is speaking about a sense of identity, which is far more important than bloodline or ancestry. China today no longer represents Han Confucian culture. It's a tragedy but a fact many of us have come to accept. if I stay in U.S., my kids will be Taiwanese American, but not Chinese. That identity is too far removed from who we are and what we represent.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth well of course people like you, won't be Chinese. even the Chinese don't consider you as Chinese. you know why? because such disgraces don't belong to our family.
at the end of the day, you'll just be an American. that's going to be your country. who knows, maybe your kids will see the day that Taiwan reunified back to China :) or maybe you'll see that during you death-bed. either way, it's going to happen.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@raininthesouth unlike you, what i strive to represent is not based on a political party. i could care less if it's the ccp or kmt, or whatever, as long as it's Chinese in body and soul.
aside from the communist, and the people like me, the kmt also strives to represent China. so are you also saying that you want to part with the name "Chinese" because of the kmt that's IN in the island itself? maybe the best solution for you, and people like you, is to get out of the island.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie KMT claims to represent China? Sure. Then what were they doing banning Taiwanese? What's Taiwanese? That's what I study during my spare time for the past several years. Taiwanese is at least a direct line stemming from Song dynasty court language. There are very good evidence to prove that is richly imbued with Han Tang and earlier dynasty court lingua as well. It is probably one of the most authentic Han language in existence today. What's KMT doing banning this language?
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth you're talking about Taiwan's relations with the Song dynasty?? when a few days ago, you said all Taiwan's history with China is in the Ming dynasty only. lol, you failed again.
at least both you and i know that Taiwan's history with China goes really far back, even this you cannot deny :) you and your family can move to America or Japan, while Chinese history, culture, and relations stays in the island. :D
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie That's what I mean when I said China has lost too much of its tradition to the point they don't even recognize Han culture from Manchu/Mongol culture. I am not going to go into details but people like us have a very good reason for looking down on China today. China today is an imposer of the cultural traditions of its past. After over 365 years of foreign rule and over 60 years of communist oppression, what's Han Chinese about China? Not much.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth maybe you need to open your eyes a little. the Manchus have their own thing, the Mongols have their own thing (although, during the respective dynasties they've ruled, they did adopt many Chinese aspects of culture), and the Han have their own thing too. i know you refuse to see the difference.
it's funny, you speak of you people sticking to Chinese traditions and culture while at the same time you deny that heritage?? Disgraced People's Party= DPP.
nothing even noble about it.
DuhLie 1 year ago
@DuhLie Problem with China is that as long as the communist continue to hijack this culture and claim it as theirs then China's brain drain problem will only worsen. This no doubt contribute to the fact that China has yet to produce a single Nobel prize winner. There are four doctors in our family and we all gladly dissociate ourselves from this so-called "Chinese culture" in China today. For those who know, it's all fake. Even my mother would say so, and she teaches this stuff.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth This is the 21st century. Stop using race and nationalism as excuses to invade another country. I am not pure-blooded Chinese since my grandmother on my mother's side is Taiwane aborigines. Why should I call myself a Chinese when I have never set foot on China (neither has the last 6-7 generations of my family on both sides). China is not our motherland. Our root is in Taiwan and so is our heart. This island is our home. We are proud of our multicultural heritage.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth no one was talking about "pure-blood" here until you came along. saying you're not pure-blood Chinese implies you do have Chinese blood, from your father's side haha.
talking about race and nationalism as excuses, what about you? why would you be even specifically talking about your mother's-side aborigine bloodline? your so-called roots and etc. isn't that about race and nationalism (false one, might i add).
lol, your mom is part aborigine yet she teaches about China. good one.
DuhLie 1 year ago
Comment removed
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@DuhLie Much of today's Western culture has a steep root in Greek and Roman traditions. Do we hear the Italians and Greeks going around boasting and censoring others? Italy today is no longer the Roman Empire from 2000 years ago, neither is China. That is why no one has the right to claim ownership of these cultures. The ethnic makeup of China has changed dramatically during the past several thousand years.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@DuhLie You talk about the Chinese owning this culture as if though this culture belongs to them. Again, Chinese today speak Mandarin and write in simplified Chinese. This highlights the dramatic shift in culture and ethnic makeup in China within the last last 800 years. If you speak ancient Han Chinese and write in traditional (or hieroglyphic) Chinese then you can claim to represent this tradition. Otherwise, Chinese today have no right to claim ownership of this culture.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@DuhLie Talking about race and nationalism as excuses... You didn't finish the sentence. As excuses to what? To invade another country. Race and nationalism can be talked about, in the right context and the right time. No one said you couldn't talk about it. I talk about my ethnic background in order to highlight the complexity of the concept of race, culture, and history. To say that the people living in China today own the Chinese culture is like saying the Italians own Western culture.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@DuhLie Anyone can teach English, even a Chinese person. Anyone can speak English, even someone like you. Yet you don't have to pledge allegiance to the white race. I don't hear Caucasians saying things like "You speak and write our language, use all the things we invented. How dare you not be loyal to us!" Yet somehow this kind of ridiculous accusations could come from the mouth of a Chinese person. That's how totally irrational Chinese are.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth This irrationality is historically created... There were too many historic distortions to this very old nation and average chinese do not see the meaning anymore. What can bring them back is a question
MrAsiansunite 1 year ago
@DuhLie Although none of us can claim that we own ancient Chinese culture, there are obvious many experts in this field today. My mother has taught this subject for over 30 years so she is obviously more of an expert on this subject than an average Chinese person off the street . What's the big deal? I study medicine so I have more professional knowledge in this field. I don't hear white people saying "Gee, you're Asian, how come you study Western medicine?" I don't see your point.
raininthesouth 1 year ago
@raininthesouth the fact is, your momma is Chinese. i bet she's proud in teaching ancient Chinese culture too. she should spread her knowledge in Taiwain! you know, letting people know their roots :) comparing it something with a foreign subject, like English or Western medicine, is what's irrational, and you know it. that's how irrational the green goblins are in Taiwan.
too bad your mom gave birth to a bastard.....
DuhLie 1 year ago