Can I still be a Christian if I don't believe that God loves Himself above all?

[theearstohear]

If the sin of idolatry of necessity means that one is unsaved, and the saved cannot lose their salvation, why does John write to fellow Christians "little children, keep yourselves from idols"? (I John 5:21) Piper's out on another limb here - violently sawing away on the trunk side.

[plato7770]

@misterbeanladen love of self is sin for mankind, not for God. He is the Most High. He is the one worthy & deserving of love. We are called to love him more than anything else. Why wouldn't he love himself than more than anything else? If u believe in the trinity than Jesus loving God most is God loving God most

[misterbeanladen]

Isn't love of self a sin? Doesn't the Bible say somewhere that love of self is a sin? God is love. How can love love (or not love) itself?

[Punisher4bmw]

I think God os infinitly perfect he loves himself very mutch and loves us the same way and Jesus was self sacrificing that does not mean he loved us more than himself quite the contrary he loved us the same way he loved himself and his father even though we were weak sinners and didnt deserved his love

[paulomi123]

also, comparing God with this commandment does not make sense, because God is perfect in love, we are the ones who are imperfect and hence we are given the commandment for perfection, God already is in a condition of self sacrificing love, we on the other hand are in a state of egotism and self centredness and self love which is why we are commanded,

[kloxre]

@paulomi123 You just made me hate myself for commenting on this video...

[paulomi123]

which is why the two commandments are said side by side, because they are indispensible, i have to tried to illustrate in as much of a short way as possible, but really, it is wrong to consider the commandment without the essence of the love of God which is really the starting point of it all, and there itself we see a self emptying love,

[paulomi123]

and if God is self seeking, then in the trinity, what kind of relationship exists?, an egocentric me first relationship??, nope, a relationship of self giving love, that is why He sent His only son to die for us,!!!!,

[paulomi123]

john piper is simply, using semantics to prove his theology, as st.paul says, love is not self seeking, how can you love someone if you love yourself more, and how does loving someone more than oneself end up to be idolatory???, as st.john says God is love, so either st.john is wrong or piper is, dosent john piper read his bible??,this is what happens if we start doing things our way, its sad that people are being driven out of christianity because of such blasphemy,

[paulomi123]

this dosent make sense, we should stop making use of our own worldly intelligence, on one hand he says God loves Himself above all else and then st.paul says love is not selfish it only gives, either st paul is wrong or piper is , and i say piper, is , is loving someone idolatrous??, then if i love my neighbour i do idolotary?? ,this is crazy , this is the disintegration of the gospel, into a human concept,

[StrumstickJoe]

The teachings of christianity: from vicarious redemption, to the love of enemies, to the urging that no thought for the morrow must be taken, no thrift, no care - but rather hate - for friends and family, to the apocalyptic wish for humanity’s end… these are immoral teachings. CH

[1122stardust]

If god is truly love, it is by nature not concerned about itself. Love is always outwardly. It doesnt reflect and dwell on the WANTS of its heart. It is too busy in the interests of others wholesome success it doesnt have time to care for its nonexistent EGO. When any being reflects on itself(ego) it partakes in pride, thus already in the downward slope to self destruction. God basking in his glory is like masturbation or pleasing self. It is self inducing, not given by another being freely.

[paulomi123]

@1122stardust your right my friend, also as we know, God in Himself is three person's mystically united from eternity, :)

[kloxre]

Everything in existence finds its meaning beyond its own entity, except God. If God did not Love himself the most, it would imply that He is not sovereign, and his existence would not be self sustaining.

[paulomi123]

@kloxre but my dear friend, God is but a unity of three person's in community,so there is no question of God loving Himself, the trinity, exercised love, within the three person's of the trinity, God is not self sustaining in the muslim or jewish way, but in the christian way, where the father and the son were bound together from eternity, and open up to the third person from eternity, it cannot be in anyway a i love myself way of love ,

[kloxre]

@paulomi123 Please be care whenever you separate the trinity

[paulomi123]

@kloxre sorry, if i have made any semantic or typing mistakes, but i hope you got the point :)

[kloxre]

@paulomi123 But here's the other thing: What about the greatest commandment? "Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself." If I do not love myself, how can I love my neighbor the way God commands since it requires a love of myself? Why would God command something that was not in his nature?

[paulomi123]

@kloxre okay now you seem to have focussed on the secondary part of the commandment completely wiping put the essence of the commandment, firstly, there is no indication either in the verse or in the passage that loving oneself is what is being tried to put forward by Christ, Christ did not teach a parable on loving oneself but on loving our neighbour, and neither does the parable say anything about loving oneself so its quite evident, that its certainly not, what you have supposed it to be

[paulomi123]

@kloxre secondly, the commandment was essentially, an explanation of our fallen egocentric and selfish nature, notice Christ dosent say love yourself and then love your neighbour like yourself, He says pretty evidently about loving your neighbour like yourself, neither does Christ explain anything about how to love oneself or what loving oneself is??,infact Christ automatically assumes the self love that exists in each of us because of our selfishness from the fall

[paulomi123]

@kloxre so when Christ says love your neighbour like yourself, He is clearly explaining, us to love our neighbour like the way we love and care for ourself, He isnt talking about, loving yourself but loving opur neighbour the way we love only ourselves, which we all do. which we dont have to be taught, which is an inherent and sad reality of our human condition the selfishness and self love, so Christ is actually commanding us to open up this self love that we possess, to our neighbours,

[paulomi123]

@kloxre so really, Christ is clearly. asking us to open our hearts, the commandment is more of mocking our condition, our self centredness, our love for oneself, and Christ is saying, love your neighbour, as you love yourself, feed him as you feed yourself, care for him as you care for yourself, the loving oneself, is a precondition, that already exists in us, we dont have to be told or explained about it and it is what has led to the destruction of humanity

[paulomi123]

@kloxre so really Christ is telling us to run away from this precondition, he is actually telling us to empty out our self love to our neighbours ,and transform it, nobody asked anything about oneself, but each one asked about the neighbour, so clearly the people Christ commanded it to at that time, understood it, perfectly, finally lets answer your question " If I do not love myself, how can I love my neighbor the way God commands since it requires a love of myself?

[paulomi123]

@kloxre well before answering dat i will ask you a question how can i love my neighbour if i still love myself, as when Christ says love your enemies, or love the ones who persecute you, of there is no greater love than to lay down one's life gor his friends, how can i do any of this if i still love myself, how can i love the one who has hurt or wounded the body that i love, so either i can love myself or him, i cant love myself and him, its impossible

[paulomi123]

@kloxre or still how can i lay down my life for my friend,?? if i love myself, why would i risk my life for my friend,then i dont love myself because if i do i would protect myself, but what about my friend, i have to love him too, you end up in an endless contradiction ,it is not possible to do that, so either Christ made a mistake or He pronounced a contradicting commandent for no reason ,if we go by your understanding, no offence, but thats what you get, now i will answer your question

[paulomi123]

@kloxre when Christ says love our neighbours as ourselves, he essentially, expresses, the the fact that we must accept His love, even in our unworthiness, even in our falleness, and accept that fact that He still loves, us no matter how we are, and also, it is to realise, that what God has given us is our gift for us, it dosent imply loving oneself in the worldly way of loving, but truly realising one's potential for glorification and union with God, and to view our neighbour in that context

[paulomi123]

@kloxre love yourself in who you are in how God created you to be, unique and specific. in terms of our personality and our being. This doesn't have to be arrogant and self-glorifyinging. It's an expression of thankfulness and gratitude, and even worship, that we are His creation. And just as I can learn to see the beauty in how God created me I can also see the beauty in how He created others. So its not simply about an external behavious but love that emanates from the heart,

[paulomi123]

@kloxre otherwise you end up with contradictions, this is beyond loving oneself in the way we see it, it is beyond self seeking glory, it is seeing oneself as a partaker in the eternal glory of God, and seeing others similarly, because unless we realise God loves us, and that we are His children called upon to partake of His glory, we cannot love our neighbours, and "lay down our lives for ourselves" as Christ said

[paulomi123]

@kloxre lolz sorry,,, for our friends,, 

[paulomi123]

@kloxre so really, its not abou loving oneself in a selfish way, but understanding oneself, and realising, that just like it hurts us when someone does something bad unto us it also hurts when we do bad to others to be precise, so the loving oneself here is in this context, so really Christ instead of commanding us to exalt ourselves,is commanding us to humble ourselves and spread this self love, that exists within us to others with the realisation of their value to God,

[paulomi123]

@kloxre because we know God values us inspite of our sinfulness, so really it is a self giving love really wherein we love ourselves in the way i explained, inspired and filled with the love of God, because i'll say again He loves us all,

[paulomi123]

@kloxre if each person in the trinity loves oneself then there would be a schism within the trinity itself, so really, even when we say God loves Himself, we are talking about not one person loving oneselfm but a triune love, love between a community, of person's mystically united from eternity

[bobbyraejohnson]

Really jesus dies on the cross for our sins and you think god is self centered and Jesus just because he wants us to believe in him and do the right thing

[matoisy]

@bobbyraejohnson why was it needed for jesus to die anyway? did it REALLY change anything? does god thinks things can be forgiven but only if there are made blood sacrifices?

so lets say i steal a car but my sins can be forgiven if my sister dies for me?

[camilocuesta]

@bobbyraejohnson He says at 2:20 that saying that god "believes humans are more important, that's [an] absolut idolatry" . So either god commits idolatry, or god is selfish.

[freethinker923]

The fact that this guy makes a living with this poppycock is damnable.

[gilbert4321]

@freethinker923

True story, Pastors get paid minimum wage and require a masters degree.

(Source: Paster Son)

[tempemonkey2323]

@aoiahiru Let me make this perfectly clear... Faith, and personal revelation do not count as evidence until its effects have been verified outside the persons head.

Do you think it is reasonable to believe a person who swears aliens abducted his brother or that he saw them the other night and he has no evidence to back it up?

If "revelation" and faith were rational ways of going about the world then many strange claims would count as rational..... That seems absurd, or maybe, irrational.

[tempemonkey2323]

@aoiahiru That is right, some people ignore evidence. However, without proper evidence, beliefs are irrational at best and dangerously wrong at worst.

There is no such thing as personal evidence. Unless something can be verified outside their own minds, then there is a very strong possibility that is the only place it resides in. Especially if they are making extraordinary personal claims.

[pimmagrimm]

Christians and other religions preach that God is seperate from us and they always use 'he' This seperation religion is divisive and has led to alot of the worlds disharmony. The core values of all religions however, are much the same but have been shrouded in the 'sin' culture. The angry parent God, which somehow wants and needs.

[altairPWK]

If, you, speak, in, pauses, you'll appear, as though, your, argument, is, valid...BTW GUYS, I'm the Anti-Christ.

[tempemonkey2323]

Its really sad to see a grown man talk about fairy tales as if they were real....

[RyenHY]

God gave a demonstration to prove He loves you at Calvary -- where Jesus died a cruel death on a cross. He died, in your place, to set you free. Christ died for the ungodly. He took your place, suffering punishment you deserved.

By dying for you, God proved He loved you supremely. There is no way He could have loved you more. Jesus proved that He loves you more than He loves Himself.

[CBALLEN]

God must love and praise Himself above all things,if He gave all these things to another,God would be an idolater

[UnrealHelix]

@CBALLEN yep

[sprinkle888]

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Hebrew 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

[rdor011]

Why is loving himself and loving his creation somehow mutually exclusive? So he loves himself above all, does that mean he *must* then view us as just a means to that end? False dichotamy.

[Glorthac]

The Father loves the Son and Holy Spirit above all. The Son loves the Father and the Holy Spirit above all. The Holy Spirit loves the Father and the Son above all.

[RedHatBlueShoe]

I am one with them, and you are one with me, so that they may become completely one. Then this world's people will know that you sent me. They will know that you love my followers as much as you love me. ----John 17:23

[freethinker923]

@Glorthac bah, this is an inventive way to attempt to sidestep the fact that the abrahamic god is ultimately self-centered and ego-maniacal.

[vico100]

Piper is the best!

[robertpiercy]

"What do you mean by that?" is one of the most powerful and productive sentences in the English language.

[lucasdasilvamaria]

And your comment is very wise and usefull. By the way, what do you mean... nah, just kidding.

[tempemonkey2323]

@robertpiercy An even more powerful sentence than the one you quoted is, "do you have evidence and reason to support your claims?" ...... The world would be a better place if people lived by that sentence...... Christianity would disappear, that is for sure.

[robertpiercy]

@tempemonkey2323 Glad to see you're watching this video.

[pimmagrimm]

@robertpiercy Perhaps the most powerful is... ' I am.'