Christopher Hitchens discusses George Orwell

[jimdivax]

Orwell didn't need all that Oxbridge guff to learn to think and his is a rarer and purer 'intelligence' for that. A personal journey into the world of ideas shaped by experience.

[Nellynoodlebums]

Average intelligence? Shut up . 

[SheStillRuns]

my witty one.

[AustinMartinLay]

Haha that's a great twisted quote at the end.

[Konicava]

Exactly! You read 1984 and you realize it is not a book about fascism, stalinism, communism, capitalism or socialism, its about totalitarian governments controlling us all, which is exactly the case right now, there are no good or evil states, only authoritarian dictatorships all over the world.

[howler95uk]

Read his books to find out why he supported the invasion of Iraq. I was against the invasion and I went on the anti-war march in London. Later I read Hitchens and now I support the invasion of Iraq.

[LifeLibertyNow]

Sorry man, but Hitchen's intellect is magnified mostly by his arrogance.

[SuperRegisteredUser]

Christopher Hitchens is a fraud. All of his mannerisms, from the way he speaks slowly and with a deep voice, to the cigarette, glasses and the way he waves his hands are ways to gain authority in order to hide the fact that he is a complete idiot and that he just says what he "thinks" or "feels" rather than what is the truth. He is an ideologue and nothing more, and god knows the world needs fewer of those in the world.

[baka1949]

@SuperRegisteredUser To say what we think is true is the most we can be asked to do. Hitchens does it with more originality than most. I'm sure he IS conscious of appearances but there is merit in what he says. If he were a fraud in the sense he privately espouses different views, how would you know? Everything in his writings and lectures is consistent and there is no indication he is being dishonest. And surely it is not fraud to advertise your views as true - else why hold to them at all.

[SuperRegisteredUser]

@baka1949 He uses these debate tactics to manipulate you (Americans) to do something that is so obviously wrong and will so clearly cost you. Just think of the enormous cost of the wars in Iraq, both in lives, money, diplomacy and the worlds views on the capability of the American military.

[VanDammesCokeDealer]

@SuperRegisteredUser LOL yes, sunglasses have no use outside of poker and debates, that's why he always wears sunglasses indoors during debates; to gain authority. Also, he should totally talk like Kermit the Frog instead of using his real voice and speech patterns while shoving his hands in his pockets to keep them from moving even a fraction of an inch, that's a super-valid point.

[VanDammesCokeDealer]

@SuperRegisteredUser LOL yes, sunglasses have no use outside of poker and debates, that's why he always wears sunglasses indoors during debates; to gain authority. Also, he should totally talk like Kermit the Frog instead of using his real voice and speech patterns while shoving his hands in his pockets to keep them from moving even a fraction of an inch, that's a super-valid point.

[obrienjamesband]

I beoieve every word Mr. Hitchens says. I also so believe I can trust him with that. He is the only one that makes any sense of all the non-sense I can't figure out.

[grobo11]

I'll never for the life of me understand the high level of 'thumbs' up the non-interventionist people get. They say they don't support the Iraq war but never give any adequate reasons for their stance and a rebuttal.

[bradchesney11]

Corporatist Crusaders.

[mikewtp]

I do not agree with him on many of his political viewpoints. But I've got to respect the man for his articulation and just generally being very well read.

[TheFlameoftheWest]

When I finished reading 1984 for the first time I went on a week long drinking binge, I was so depressed.

My favorite work by Orwell would be Homage to Catalonia.

[equsnarnd]

Have a look at this: Christopher Hitchens - Axis of Evil (1 of 7)

[PrincessGarnet85]

My favourite is 'Homage to Catalonia'.

[polyathiest]

One of the greatest authors ever

[TheDreamMechanic]

This is more like it.  I can dig Hitchens when he's chilling, smoking a cigarette, and waxing philosophical on Orwell.

Beats the alternative.

[CaseRed0605]

I've always found Orwell to be at his best when reading his essays. But that's not to slight his novels which are excellent.

[polyathiest]

I read Orwell at school (1984) and one chapter in went straight down to the school library to start my collection of his works (you could buy there). Fantastic writer (as is Hitchins)

[Frightenstein]

@polyathiest I remeber finishing 1984 and just walking around for days feeling weird. I didn't know how to not have anything to be paranoid about.

[THEFRANKLINFILM]

Hitchen's was always more Gore Vidal than Orwell.

[TheShanegto]

It's strange to see hitchens praise orwell given his past and his current positions. It's a bit bothersome to hear one of the chief propagandists of the iraq war praise orwell's opposition to imperialism, especially given hitchen's past. I wish he would return to his roots.

[THEFRANKLINFILM]

I think Hitchen's would see it as his own version of "intellectual honesty" when it is more his propensity to act the contrarian.

[husky720]

@TheShanegto that's because Hitchens doesn't consider Iraq an imperialist venture...whether it is or not is a matter of opinion and what constitutes imperialism.

[Frightenstein]

Well, Hitchens has said (in the Q&A session he did after his debate with his brother Peter) that the war in Iraq was imperialistic, but so was everything else the US has done in Iraq in the last 50 years, and that at least this was imperialism for a positive end. I'm not agreeing, I'm just saying what his position actually is on the issue.

[automaticSOM]

I just bought Nineteen Eighty Four!!!!

[BillKiernan]

awesome quip, "every does have a book in them but in most cases that's where it should stay"

[regelemihai]

He wasn't a genius?

Sorry, but a person who can leave that kind of mark on the political sphere for generations to come can't be of moderate intelligence.

[husky720]

More like he doesn't write like a genius...he is able to write the to average person.  He wasn't writing these esoteric, intellectual novels

[regelemihai]

1984, judging by my standards, is as intellectual of a novel as it gets :P

I dunno. I guess it depends.

[Frightenstein]

Intelligent? Definitely. Influtential? Irrefutably. Intellectual? Well, that depends on your definiton of the word.

Orwell was fond, in his earlier novels, of deliberately remarking that the protagonists were decidedly not highbrows, and the common link between his social and his political novels was the underlying message that hope, if there is any, lies with the common people. I think this is what Hitchens means. Orwell was wonderfully intellectual, but he wasn't AN intellectual.

[regelemihai]

The point of contention was that he didn't think he was a genius, not an intellectual. Those are two different things.

[aptanalogy]

@regelemihai George "fish and man can coexist peacefully" Bush has done just that. Need I say more? 

[regelemihai]

@aptanalogy

Remind me what you're reponding to. Fish and man can coexist...what the heck are you talking about?

[aptanalogy]

Google is your friend.

[regelemihai]

@aptanalogy

I still dunno what you're talking about. Yes, a stupid thing Bush said once. Okay? You posted this in response to what?

[jumpnjza2]

Orwell would be disgusted if he knew that CH is one of his fans.

[regelemihai]

What makes Orwell a superior to CH that he might looked down on Hitchens?

They're both intellectuals...

[patient0Studios]

Important to remember that Hitchens has recanted his favourable statements about the Iraq war.

[Indieringer]

Got any links to articles/videos of him recanting his previous statements on the Iraq War?

[Frightenstein]

They are around if you look for them. There's an article you can still find on Vanity Fair's website about a young man who was killed in the war after being convinced by Hitchen's writings to enlist.

Hitchens was told about him by a friend, got in touch with the family and went to the funeral. You can tell in that article (if memory serves, it's a few years old) that he's starting to go towards an anti-war position.

[Frightenstein]

Unfortunately, no. As far as officially recanting his comments, I've heard only rumours. But as I said, there are a few articles hanging around from a couple of years ago in which he expresses doubt about the way the war is fought. Importantly, he does still appear to pro-war, just anxious about the way it's going.

[QwidgyboMan]

Well that is hardly recanting.

[Frightenstein]

I never said he has recanted them. Patient0 made that claim, and I deliberately gave details in an effort to explain that Hitchens, as far as I can tell, hasn't openly recanted his position. Not that it would be a massive surprise; Hitchens changes his position from time to time, if and when he is proved wrong. It's one of his more flattering character traits. Brutal intellectual honesty.

[QwidgyboMan]

In response to Indieringer's question about article's containing recantations, you replied "they are around if you look for them." You went as far as to say one can derive an anti-war switch.

[Frightenstein]

@QwidgyboMan, anything more than a cursory glance at my comment would reveal that I said he was "going towards an anti-war position" and in another comment that "Importantly, he does still appear to be pro-war". I never claimed he had recanted, or that there was an 'anti-war switch' of any kind. I don't know how to make it much clearer. I am not saying that Hitchens has recanted his statements, simply that he seems to be growing increasingly displeased about the direction of the war.

[z3rsk1]

@Indieringer they don't exist.

[XxxNuMbxxX0301]

Why has he recanted them?

[TheYellowTelevision]

@patient0Studios When?

[Kan2209]

@patient0Studios he has? What did he say?

[Orwellxx]

@patient0Studios care to provide a link?

[yatter1]

@Orwellxx The people who say this kind of bull shit never can provide evidence.

[jamesball1]

@patient0Studios: When?

[mcshobe2008]

@patient0Studios i didn't know this. where can i read this?

[squibmalik]

@patient0Studios proof?

[nyomythus]

@patient0Studios No he hasn't

[IvanWanko]

@patient0Studios Could you provide your source for that?

[z3rsk1]

@patient0Studios No, he hasn't. What in the hell are you talking about?

[TheTypicalGirl]

@patient0Studios I don't think its important to remember something that never occurred. Hitchens remains an advocate for the invasion of Iraq and removal of Saddam Hussein from power.

[Amzalooz]

George Orwell did go to Eton yes, but it was on a full scholarship resulting from immense pressure on him to obtain one by his school (which he also attended on full scholarship). See "those, those were the days" essay for more information. Subsequently to that time Orwell became disillusioned withthe education system (hence not following the traditional oxbridge route) and went to Burma.

[FiliusLibertatis]

Actually, George Orwell went to Eton.

[tubesteakZ]

This is Hitchen's problem. He uses verbal ballet to dance around a clearly unjust action. Opposing the policy of non intervention in a fabricated situation constructed for the purpose of invading is nothing less than supporting the invasion.

A talented writer and intellectual like Hitchens did a terrible disservice to himself and his readers by supporting this crime.

[patient0Studios]

The key word in the accusation is DID.

[tubesteakZ]

I believe Orwell would have exposed the lies and not covered them up the way Hitchens has.

[henpage]

my thoughts exactly.

[chepenudo]

What lies are you referring to? for instance.

[tubesteakZ]

Where do I begin? Let's take Colin Powell's speech at the UN, the Mushroom Cloud threat,

9-11 Al-Qaida connection, yellow cake uranium ,Downing Street memo, etc, etc, etc...

[chepenudo]

I respect Hitchens and agree with him on many issues. However, I've never been in favor of the Iraq war from the very beginning and was quite disappointed to witness Colin Powell sell it the it the UN. And, I am a fan of George Orwell before I knew of Hitchens. I am interested to check out the points you address and see where Hitchens has purposely been untruthful. Thank you.

[tubesteakZ]

I could expect nothing but lies and deceit from Powell and the administration, but Hitchens whom I considered a fearless voice

really disappointed me.

[AcousticTyGuy]

Hitchens doesn't unquestioningly support the Iraq war. He has published several articles deeply critical of Bush and Blair, and how the war has been waged (to a point). Supporting a principle or cause doesn't mean you must autonomously go along with everything your supposed "side" tells you to go along with. Also, his arguments are extremely sensible, compared even to the governments that support them. I don't agree with him on everything, but saying he's "covering up lies" is just crap.

[tubesteakZ]

War is not a football game where you can argue over particular strategies and what works best while you cheer the home team.

We are talking about death and destruction

on a massive scale. Launching that under false pretenses is a crime against humanity. If you care at all about humanity, you would never justify such actions and would speak out and condemn them. Orwell was a man who truly cared about humanity. He exposed the lies. Hitchens did not.

[WilltheAtheist]

Well I'm not to schoolared in Iraq history but I do think Hitchens would respond. Infact he has responded to that claim by pointing out the crimes against humanity already comitted by the Iraq goverment.

[aweiss]

If you remember the most potent case made was not WMDs but the horrible rule of Saddam and what a future democracy could look like. It is not a football game, and America doesn't directly benefit from a free Iraq but a free Iraq people do.

[WizardsStaff]

Yes, there was war in iraq and most of the middle east before America set foot there. A holy war mind you, a type of war where no compromise may be reached.

[LowleyUK]

@tubesteakZ Shut up you idiot, you know nothing of the war in Iraq, It's not a crime to remove a genocidal maniac that broke 4 UN resolutions and provided a false WMD declaration. Saddam frequently and explicitly said he wanted to use WMD against practically everyone. It would have been a crime or atleast immensly immoral to allow the Iraqis to suffer and die. You cannot picture the scenes of inhumanity that were day to day life for the people, sorry, property of saddams regime.

[mistersmith6000]

@tubesteakZ they say we rationalize to survive, and if you can articulate your rationalizations outwards, and are rewarded for it, why would you stop, until it's too late? Better than being a monk in a cave? ..or not?

[thesearewarningsigns]

@tubesteakZ just because the man supported the Iraq war for a time (his chief reasons being the disposal of a psychotic killer/ head of state) does not mean he's done anyone a disservice. He owes his readers and fans nothing, first off, what his real admirers appreciate most about him is that he is always true to himself and his sense of integrity. We can disagree with him, sure, but let's not for a moment let those responsible for the war off the hook to point fingers at a writer.

[tubesteakZ]

Christopher Hitchens is sharp, thought-provoking and well read individual. I can't, for the life of me, understand why he would defend such clearly wrong actions like the invasion of Iraq.

[patient0Studios]

He supported the invasion?

[patient0Studios]

He doesn't defend the invasion of Iraq he opposes the idea of having an impartial policy of non-intervention. The trend in many anti-war organizations, groups that rightly so would oppose invading Iraq but would also oppose sending military support to end genocide etc

[Nintendomanwill]

Indiscriminate pacifism is ludicrous because it ignores the lessons of objective morality. We cannot, on the basis that it is wrong to initiate force to allow a master-slave relationship, refrain from defending the object of aggression when the subject is not strong enough to counteract defence. Even if he is, even if punishment cannot be used, his actions must be stopped for the sake of economic society. Economics teaches that it is morally wrong AND destructive to initiate force/commit fraud.

[grobo11]

@patient0Studios No, he supports the Iraq war.

[timetochilli]

@tubesteakZ i tell you wat it is he is so against religious facism that it conciously rejects the wrong doing because he wants religious facism to be broken not that hes a bad person its like fogets the innocent deaths in order to make religious facists are dead

[patient0Studios]

please subscribe

[AnarchyIsForMe]

Man 1984 had such a huge effect on me. I don't think I would be the person I am today without Orwell.

[nyomythus]

same, a very important read

[KafkaCrow]

Yeah, me too. "1984" made me into a staunch anti-authoritarian. "Homage to Catalonia" turned me away from Trotskyism and towards libertarian socialism / anarchism.

[nuclearnight]

are you serious?

it did the opposite for me!

[KafkaCrow]

No, really, it did.  Twice, lol.

[nuclearnight]

that's too bad.

[KafkaCrow]

Not at all!

[nuclearnight]

well good luck with that, hopefully you'll come back to us.

[KafkaCrow]

I still have a lot of Trotskyist "beliefs", though. That is to say, I agree with some Trotskyist critiques of the USSR, among other things. It's really just vanguardism and electoralism that I've ditched.

[nuclearnight]

But those are the essential things I think, the main reasons I'm not an anarchist.

[zytigon]

@AnarchyIsForMe Are you talking about the sort of anarchy that Michel Onfray talks about, sort of devolved decision making, local solutions? Do you think 1984 was meant as a hint at the oligarchical tendencies of religion? Sometimes religious people form their own self imposed oligarchy by censoring their own reading list from reasons against their faith. Internal fears that stop oneself exploring the universe of knowledge.