The Arrow was NOT "all Canadian", there were many Brits involved in its construction. including the cheif engineer and the chief designer. Not even the test pilot was Caandian, he was Polish. I cannot believe the Canadian identity crisis has leaked over into Canadian celebrity circles. Quite funny.
It is true PM Dief did do a great many good deeds in office, he also made the biggest blunder in our nations history. Lets forget the fact that with all the money he wasted on cancelling the arrow and replacing it with complete garbage. The government could have had a couple of squadrons of arrows. Lets look at the basic point of pride. The arrow would have been a world benchmark in aviation. It would have given the world something to think about when it heard the name Canada.
@holydrewskie In my last comment I stated the financial facts. These are the tecnical facts. Other FASTER and MORE MANOUVERABLE fighters were operational in 1959. CF-101 could turn on a dime. It had greater range, could climb faster, and could almost match the Arrow in speed. USAF 101s flew 35,000 missions in Viet Nam and only ONE was ever lost to an enemy aircraft. Our pilots and techs that I have talked to all agree that the Voodoo was a better plane. Mig 21s would shreded the Arrow in a fight
I'm not too sure who you spoke to however considering only 2 people flew the Arrow I would conclude those pilots and techs have no clue what they are talking about. . The Voodoo was slower by a long shot and barely supersonic. The Arrow's costs would have come down as orders from other countries came in. Granted they were rumors the fact is many people from those days stated there was great interest in the Arrow.
@holydrewskie The pilots and techs I refer to both flew and worked on the Voodoo. Every one of them told me the 101 was a better plane. Don't take my word for it check the stats. The top speed of the 101 is listed as mach 1.7 with some reports of it actually hitting 1.86 that is far from barely supersonic. The 101 had far greater range, and a rate of climb of 250m/s. That is IMPRESSIVE even by todays standards. They did try to sell the Arrow to other countries but no one would buy it.
In response to the slow Voodoos; we took delivery of the F101-B. The 101B had a different version of the Pratt Whitney 57 with a-55 designation. This engine was more powerful than the standard 57. In short our Voodoo 101 was a little hot rod with a top speed of mach 1.75. I have heard of one report of it hitting mach 1.85 but I have not been able to substiate this claim. Mach 1.75 however is a real number. I f you don't believe me check it out.
thats a bizarre thing to hear. At the moment of the project cancellation, Britain and France wanted 200 each (and i think Australia was interested?). the iroquois mk2 engine was just about to be released, which would have significantly increased its performance. the whole event was a travesty, and being politically pressured by the US to cancel the project really didnt help matters. Regardless, it was an event that was not to be, and most of the designers got snatched up by NASA immediately.
@NiagaraWarrior: Britain was the only interested buyer aside from the RCAF. They recinded their interest in the Arrow in January, 1959, approximately one month before cancellation of the program. As for the French, they expressed interest in purchasing the Iroquois engines only, but they too recinded their interest in 1958. The USA did NOT pressure Canada into cancelling the program...that's a myth. They were actually very concerned about the air defense 'deficit' cancellation would create.
@KamikazziHamster: No. Because I've studied this subject at length to arrive at my posts...rather than believing what I see on a cheezy CBC docu-drama. Do you ever wonder why the USA cancelled their high-performance interceptor program in 1959? Or are you even aware that they had one?
They didnt need to pressure anyone. Canada could not sell a plane they spent how much creating? Avro was naive. Canada might have financed it but we'd still be flying them now.
At the same time, ICBM were the threat - pilotless bombs..Drones - Were pilots needed? New missile tech... Plus Mirage, Lockheed and Bae all had their own plans.
See the short video called: "Canadians, the Arrow was a failure", right here on youtube. You are completely wrong about all of your claims. The ultra-biased "wiki" claim that the engineers became the heads of NASA is also false. The germans launched both the American and Russian space programs.
Dief should have been tossed out of politics alltogether just for having scrapped this awesome aircraft. It could have become the new symbol of Canadian pride. He was such a God damn useless coward! Shame on him.
@rickyb007 The only lies about the Arrow are in this movie that is taking great libirties with the truth. But what else should we expect from the CBC. First of all there were other fighters in service that were faster and more manouverable than the Arrow. In addition to the $400,000,000 we had already spent Avro wanted us to lock into a contract for $3,750,000/plane without having tested the Orenda engine or any weapons. Diefenbaker saved us millions and got our pilots a better safer plane.
i would have loved for Dief to have kept the program, but I think this stupid docu-drama movie (which is TOTALLY misleading) puts Diefenbaker in a bad light, when in fact he's responsible for alot of good. Most notably (I think), is giving Canada a Bill of Rights in 1960; giving Indians the vote, etc.
He has got to be the biggest moron in history! The idiot bought the missiles, they were useless. He then bought F-101 voodos from the US, it was an almost rejected design barely capable of super sonic speeds. Buying these planes costed Canada $260 million, with these fundings, more than 50 arrows could have been put into service. The arrow was an amazing plane, equals or surpasses the performance of the present day CF-18.
The CF-101 Voodoo served Canada well for over 20 years. Actually, it was capable of mach 1.7 (a CF-18 can only do 1.8).
Cool as it was, the CF-105 (Arrow) was a high-speed/high-altitude interceptor, and would've been murdered by a CF-18 in any other capacity, unless the pilot chose to run away. And it carried nuke-tipped Genies! Very cool.
@bugmenot143643 The cost of the 66 Voodoos was just over $100,000,000. With the contract that Avro wanted 50 Arrows would cost 187,500,000 on top of the $400,000,000 they already got from us and they still hadn't tested the Orenda engine or any weapons systems. Before you tell me that I'm full of shit and a liar, don't take just take my word for it. Google Avro Arrow information and you can actually view some of the original documents. Not one of our pilots would trade a CF 101 for an Arrow.
It's so hard to say with any certainty either one of us is right. I go by the engineers reports, the test pilots (who are the only ones who flew the CF 105) And their reports were documented. even after the program was axed they stated time and again the Arrow's capabilities were far beyond what anyone could have expected.
@holydrewskie Compare the stats FOR the Arrow to those of the F -106 F-4, MIG-21 and the Voodoo 10. I assure you that I am not making this up in my head. Like you I thought the Arrow was a marvel of engineering, until I started doing some researce and comparing it to other fast planes of its day. The problem with the Arrow was its enormose size and the delta wing design sacraficed its mobility. I'm not saying it wasn't fast. It just wasn't the kind of plane we needed as a fighter.
Disagree. The Arrow was an interceptor designed to seek and shoot down bombers, not necessarily tangle toe to toe with fighters. An interceptor - Canadian produced - was what the then RCAF wanted, and almost got. One of Dief's worst mistakes.
dienfinbaker shouldn't have listened to the amercians if i where him i'd say "fuck off its out plane"
cdnparatrooper 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
god bless canada
ThisIsPehPeh 11 months ago
Only loser countries have "Prime Ministers".
faffaflunkie 11 months ago
@faffaflunkie what does that mean?
ThisIsPehPeh 11 months ago
@ThisIsPehPeh No way will I live in any country with a "Prime Minister".
faffaflunkie 11 months ago
@faffaflunkie so do u not like canada or no idk lol
ThisIsPehPeh 11 months ago
@ThisIsPehPeh Two roads and nine months of winter. What's not to like?
faffaflunkie 11 months ago
@faffaflunkie ok? we have way more the two roads lol but yeah i dont realy care about or pm
ThisIsPehPeh 11 months ago
The Arrow was NOT "all Canadian", there were many Brits involved in its construction. including the cheif engineer and the chief designer. Not even the test pilot was Caandian, he was Polish. I cannot believe the Canadian identity crisis has leaked over into Canadian celebrity circles. Quite funny.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago
Why did Canada buy the 101 if fighters are obsolete......
MingGuoLi 2 years ago
Where can you get the movie? Cant find it on youtube. There a video of it here?
MingGuoLi 2 years ago
Yeah! You tell him, Mr. Aykroyd!
3DJelly 3 years ago
Yeah, buying the Bomarc was a stupid move because they didn't work properly.
In my hometown there was a guy who worked on the Arrow and later worked on the Bomarc, and told me they were useless.
Diefenbaker is a idiot, and yet the Canadian West loved him because he cared about them more, but I hate the man.
snake2006 3 years ago
It is true PM Dief did do a great many good deeds in office, he also made the biggest blunder in our nations history. Lets forget the fact that with all the money he wasted on cancelling the arrow and replacing it with complete garbage. The government could have had a couple of squadrons of arrows. Lets look at the basic point of pride. The arrow would have been a world benchmark in aviation. It would have given the world something to think about when it heard the name Canada.
holydrewskie 3 years ago
@holydrewskie In my last comment I stated the financial facts. These are the tecnical facts. Other FASTER and MORE MANOUVERABLE fighters were operational in 1959. CF-101 could turn on a dime. It had greater range, could climb faster, and could almost match the Arrow in speed. USAF 101s flew 35,000 missions in Viet Nam and only ONE was ever lost to an enemy aircraft. Our pilots and techs that I have talked to all agree that the Voodoo was a better plane. Mig 21s would shreded the Arrow in a fight
banjer4u 2 years ago 2
I'm not too sure who you spoke to however considering only 2 people flew the Arrow I would conclude those pilots and techs have no clue what they are talking about. . The Voodoo was slower by a long shot and barely supersonic. The Arrow's costs would have come down as orders from other countries came in. Granted they were rumors the fact is many people from those days stated there was great interest in the Arrow.
holydrewskie 2 years ago
@holydrewskie The pilots and techs I refer to both flew and worked on the Voodoo. Every one of them told me the 101 was a better plane. Don't take my word for it check the stats. The top speed of the 101 is listed as mach 1.7 with some reports of it actually hitting 1.86 that is far from barely supersonic. The 101 had far greater range, and a rate of climb of 250m/s. That is IMPRESSIVE even by todays standards. They did try to sell the Arrow to other countries but no one would buy it.
banjer4u 2 years ago
In response to the slow Voodoos; we took delivery of the F101-B. The 101B had a different version of the Pratt Whitney 57 with a-55 designation. This engine was more powerful than the standard 57. In short our Voodoo 101 was a little hot rod with a top speed of mach 1.75. I have heard of one report of it hitting mach 1.85 but I have not been able to substiate this claim. Mach 1.75 however is a real number. I f you don't believe me check it out.
banjer4u 2 years ago
thats a bizarre thing to hear. At the moment of the project cancellation, Britain and France wanted 200 each (and i think Australia was interested?). the iroquois mk2 engine was just about to be released, which would have significantly increased its performance. the whole event was a travesty, and being politically pressured by the US to cancel the project really didnt help matters. Regardless, it was an event that was not to be, and most of the designers got snatched up by NASA immediately.
NiagaraWarrior 2 years ago
@NiagaraWarrior: Britain was the only interested buyer aside from the RCAF. They recinded their interest in the Arrow in January, 1959, approximately one month before cancellation of the program. As for the French, they expressed interest in purchasing the Iroquois engines only, but they too recinded their interest in 1958. The USA did NOT pressure Canada into cancelling the program...that's a myth. They were actually very concerned about the air defense 'deficit' cancellation would create.
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1 HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
...Because you were there, amirite?
KamikazziHamster 1 year ago
@KamikazziHamster: No. Because I've studied this subject at length to arrive at my posts...rather than believing what I see on a cheezy CBC docu-drama. Do you ever wonder why the USA cancelled their high-performance interceptor program in 1959? Or are you even aware that they had one?
raynus1 1 year ago
@raynus1
your correct.
They didnt need to pressure anyone. Canada could not sell a plane they spent how much creating? Avro was naive. Canada might have financed it but we'd still be flying them now.
At the same time, ICBM were the threat - pilotless bombs..Drones - Were pilots needed? New missile tech... Plus Mirage, Lockheed and Bae all had their own plans.
00Billy 2 months ago
@NiagaraWarrior
See the short video called: "Canadians, the Arrow was a failure", right here on youtube. You are completely wrong about all of your claims. The ultra-biased "wiki" claim that the engineers became the heads of NASA is also false. The germans launched both the American and Russian space programs.
JohnQRandom 1 year ago
Dief should have been tossed out of politics alltogether just for having scrapped this awesome aircraft. It could have become the new symbol of Canadian pride. He was such a God damn useless coward! Shame on him.
rickyb007 4 years ago
@rickyb007 The only lies about the Arrow are in this movie that is taking great libirties with the truth. But what else should we expect from the CBC. First of all there were other fighters in service that were faster and more manouverable than the Arrow. In addition to the $400,000,000 we had already spent Avro wanted us to lock into a contract for $3,750,000/plane without having tested the Orenda engine or any weapons. Diefenbaker saved us millions and got our pilots a better safer plane.
banjer4u 2 years ago
i would have loved for Dief to have kept the program, but I think this stupid docu-drama movie (which is TOTALLY misleading) puts Diefenbaker in a bad light, when in fact he's responsible for alot of good. Most notably (I think), is giving Canada a Bill of Rights in 1960; giving Indians the vote, etc.
hetman11 4 years ago
Exactly. Couldn't agree more. And we best not forget kicking South Africa out of the commonwealth.
nitzwalsh86 4 years ago
He has got to be the biggest moron in history! The idiot bought the missiles, they were useless. He then bought F-101 voodos from the US, it was an almost rejected design barely capable of super sonic speeds. Buying these planes costed Canada $260 million, with these fundings, more than 50 arrows could have been put into service. The arrow was an amazing plane, equals or surpasses the performance of the present day CF-18.
bugmenot143643 3 years ago
The CF-101 Voodoo served Canada well for over 20 years. Actually, it was capable of mach 1.7 (a CF-18 can only do 1.8).
Cool as it was, the CF-105 (Arrow) was a high-speed/high-altitude interceptor, and would've been murdered by a CF-18 in any other capacity, unless the pilot chose to run away. And it carried nuke-tipped Genies! Very cool.
raynus1 3 years ago
The CF101, that is.
raynus1 3 years ago
@bugmenot143643 The cost of the 66 Voodoos was just over $100,000,000. With the contract that Avro wanted 50 Arrows would cost 187,500,000 on top of the $400,000,000 they already got from us and they still hadn't tested the Orenda engine or any weapons systems. Before you tell me that I'm full of shit and a liar, don't take just take my word for it. Google Avro Arrow information and you can actually view some of the original documents. Not one of our pilots would trade a CF 101 for an Arrow.
banjer4u 2 years ago
It's so hard to say with any certainty either one of us is right. I go by the engineers reports, the test pilots (who are the only ones who flew the CF 105) And their reports were documented. even after the program was axed they stated time and again the Arrow's capabilities were far beyond what anyone could have expected.
holydrewskie 2 years ago
@holydrewskie Compare the stats FOR the Arrow to those of the F -106 F-4, MIG-21 and the Voodoo 10. I assure you that I am not making this up in my head. Like you I thought the Arrow was a marvel of engineering, until I started doing some researce and comparing it to other fast planes of its day. The problem with the Arrow was its enormose size and the delta wing design sacraficed its mobility. I'm not saying it wasn't fast. It just wasn't the kind of plane we needed as a fighter.
banjer4u 2 years ago
@banjer4u
Disagree. The Arrow was an interceptor designed to seek and shoot down bombers, not necessarily tangle toe to toe with fighters. An interceptor - Canadian produced - was what the then RCAF wanted, and almost got. One of Dief's worst mistakes.
MBguy2008 1 year ago
No, a beautiful airplane, though it was, it distracted valuable resources from nationalisation.
nitzwalsh86 4 years ago