The Santa comparison is a false parallel. If 90% of adults in our society believed in Santa, than it would be comparable and then there would be good reason for even those who don't believe in him to try and convince others to; especially if it effects our politics / society / relationships etc.
Exactly MIJ! That is my point. Yet how often do atheists compare my belief's to just that? It seems that its OK to insult my beliefs in God by making the comparison to flying spaghetti, Santa, or the tooth fairy but when I rebut...its no longer valid. I say its never valid and agree with your completely. Thanks for your feedback.
Well, that from a secular perspective, beliefs in gods, fairies, santa and so on are all in the same category - the category of belif in imaginary man-made characters. So in that sense, it makes sense for the Atheist to put them in the same category.
The sense I was saying they r not in the same category, is a question of how many people - including adults - believe in a god compared to the others. This difference is one good reasons 4 non-believers to care about discussing it.
May I start with I respect what you choose to believe as I do all ot do as long as they cause no one any harm. I am responding only because of what I see as great prejudice and perhaps a more profound hypocrisy on your part in this video, I can not know your life so I can not judge all of it as you have wrong done here saying you know what all non Christians think, do believe or feel. That is of course silly and ego based.
1- you say you get “tons” of people trying to de-convert you, I will have to take your word for that. What is a ton in this matter? Are they really trying to de-convert you, tell you that what you believe is a lie, that you are lost, blind and foolish as you are doing to them or are some just defending themselves against your attacks. The same attacks that seem to bother you so when addressed to you and your belief?
4- You say that all have large egos yet your video is you fully flexing your ego, you are right and anyone else is wrong and lost just as one example. You are good and smart and they bad and lost fools, and you speak of others ego?
5- You demand all attend your party because you are there its just must be the best party after all, you are there so it has to be, right?
6- I wish you to believe what ever you desire to just do not harm others and try and give to all others the very same kindness and respect you seek for your self and family and belief.
be well and happy..
It will be great when all can party together, sharing with respects thoughts and beliefs, no ego based personal attacks or demanding all must believe as we choose to..
6. The only reason I cannot completely abide by that same mantra is due to the fact that I actually care whether you are right or wrong in your disbelief because of the "consequences" line from the video. It would be heartless of me to let you live and let live without so much as a conversation. That said, Scripture is clear that I am to share but not force doctrine down anyone's throat. Thanks for your commentary.
@TheEdge012 see there it is, I believe you are fully wrong, I was raised, schooled and spend decades in study of the Christian belief and bible and its history I know the book and belief better than most.
But I respect what you choose to believe and the other God based believe who are trying " to save me" will you allow them to "save you"?
Sharing is good telling people that are evil lost blind fools is not
You seem to think my hypocrisy stems from the fact that I need to save the lost but do not appreciate it when they try to save me. Let's say that does make me a hypocrite. Again...if you were to free me and deliver me from my delusion...what have you, the atheist "saved me" from? Nothing. I die, you die, we all die and that's it. SO why bother? My efforts stem from believing there is an eternity to think about. IF that makes me a hypocrite, then I can deal with it.
@TheEdge012 . Once again my friend you ignore I am not a materialist Atheist 2- Many materialist Atheist have very happy lives and do not fear or care there if there is no life after this. 3 you keep ignoring I am also talking about other god based beliefs if you are wrong and they right you are in grave danger.
"Sharing is good telling people that are evil lost blind fools is not "
Me: you are trying to establish a neutral ground where none can exist, by objecting to a person going beyond sharing and into trying to convince one he is wrong.
But what did you employ to make your point? You told Edge what was "good" and then said what he is doing (or at least your characterization of it is) "is not"
4 & 5 are your characterizations of what I've said and your opinion as to what I am doing. My intent, though perhaps poorly executed was to return volley to those that use these silly techniques. And I did intend to do so with the same overall tone I am getting...which is somewhat biting and insulting. Again...not necessarily aimed at you.
2. Someone is right and someone is wrong...we can't both be if we are speaking about opposing ideas. That said, I believe there is a respectable way to have the conversation and reiterate to you that this is purposefully stinging parody to those that have crossed that line with me in the past. It is not intended for persons like you who seem to know the boundaries.
3. I don't know all of them. Generalization of a "type of atheist" is what I was going for. And for some reason I don't seem to attract a large amount of the kind that fail to fit the stereotype.
@TheEdge012 1 - you know not all atheist are on youtube, not even .00000000001% are yet you make a video attacking all or "most". If I said all Christians rape children and murder because some do you would call me a hate filled fool.
2- I will say again, you want to tell all people they are lost blind fools but become angry if they defend or say such to you/
JBK...You must not be reading my responses to you. I admit I don't know ALL atheists AND I admit that this video is only for a select group that behave in a certain way. If you look at the majority of my videos, I do not normally return tit for tat like this. You also keep saying that I call people blind fools and that just not the case.
I have been on YouTube for three years in July. And I have blogged since 2006. On average I have encountered either the insulting, name calling variety of atheiest OR the ones that sincerely just want to help me get over my delusion at least once per week. Four years times once per week (which I think is a low estimate) is 208. Granted some people come back as repeat offenders so I doubt that is an actual number of people but more represenative of occurences.
2. Someone is right and someone is wrong...we can't both be if we are speaking about opposing ideas. That said, I believe there is a respectable way to have the conversation and reiterate to you that this is purposefully stinging parody to those that have crossed that line with me in the past. It is not intended for persons like you who seem to know the boundaries.
@TheEdge012 that is a False dichotomy as perhaps none of us are right, but you seek you are demanding you are right and all others wrong. You with respect have never read the holy books of the worlds other beliefs yet you declare they are all wrong. Yet when this is done to you, you complain. Can you see what i am saying?
Yes...to some degree we are ALL hedging our bets and you might call that "faith" in my case. However, IF I am convinced that I am right I reiterate that it would be cruel of me to NOT share that with you. The reason you can so easily live and let live in comparison to me is that by your belief system, I am not in any inherent danger nor am I rejecting eternal bliss.
@TheEdge012 . I too have been on youtube for years and countless times told by Christians and other Theist I am an evil, lost blind fool who has no morals.
I do not make a video saying all Christians are this or that, do this or that, I do not know all or most Christians and you do not know most Ateist.
If what you claim about how you personally conduct yourself is true then this RSVP letter is not aimed at you specifically. I realize that not ALL atheists use insulting language that they are somehow freethinkers and I am not. Not ALL insult me with Santa comparisons or references to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. However, and unfortunately...many do. This is for them. Thanks for watching and for your kind words and attitudes.
@TheEdge012 My friend there are over a billion Atheist and when adding in Buddhist like me, Jain and the other non material Atheist well well over a billion, you do not can not know even a tiny % of them.
Will some be rude, yes as some in all group will be.
What is ironic is you say they insult you with the Santa thing etc but do not feel you are insulting them when you tell them they are lost, blind moral-less fools that is hypocrisy.
Strawman Jain. I don't call people blind moral-less fools. And if I mention their status of being lost, I am quick to point out that I spent many years myself in that condition.
1. I do NOT call people "blind, moral-less fools". That IS a strawman.
2. When I mention the "lost status" it is quickly followed up by admitting I was once there. I do not equate being lost to being moral-less fools. I do not blame those that have no map for not knowing where to go my friend.
Let me ask you a question. If I say you are acting foolish is that the same as calling you a fool? I say no. Furthermore you were very specific with the idea that I am asserting that people are blind, immoral fools. No such descriptors were in the video.
Debating religious beliefs is much different than debating a belief in Santa. Believers in Santa do not lobby legislators to make laws that discriminate, restrict freedoms, and force their beliefs on others through governmental actions and institutions. Religious groups do. This is one of the reasons many atheists find it important to debate, discuss, and/or present information to believers.
Again...I agree with you BUT Santa is just being returned to those that use it against me. I find bringing him or the tooth fairy into the conversation to be insulting, unproductive, and a horrible strawman correlation to my beliefs. However, IF atheists truly think its on par with Santa...lets take that to its logical conclusion and ask ourselves why we ARE talking abou it if indeed its that silly? You are correct to point out they are not good corellations and ARE worth talking about.
Your presentation was very creative and almost poetic, but sorely lacking of any substance that would result in effective proselytizing to most atheist. In all likelihood, it will have the opposite effect.
I doubt you are aware how condescending many of your words could be to an atheist, which shows a lack of understanding of an atheist's position. If you are aware, it reflects negatively on your character. I hope the former is the case and not the latter.
The answer is both. I do not intend on being insulting. However, there is a tone that I have and some choice words that I share here that intentionally return the attitudes I get when the deconversion attempts come. If you are not one to engage in the behavior I am criticising...then please disregard any of what I might call "light jabs". Thanks for watching and for the kind words!
@TheEdge012 It seems that you think the way some atheists have interacted with you hasn’t been constructive and at times rude. You then use this as the rational for the biting remarks in your video. This appears to me to be equivalent to a child’s often heard excuse of “but s/he did it first.” You seem to be an intelligent and articulate person, so it surprises me that you didn’t see a response in-kind to such counterproductive remarks probably wouldn’t be constructive to your proselytization.
1. Let me just see if I have the score straight here: You are critcising my criticism? And is doing so you've elected to defend a group of atheists that operate in a way that you do not support, condone, or engage in yourself?
2. The majority of my work is not tit for tat like this so if you can forgive the rare occassion that I've elected to act childish I would be grateful.
3. Lastly, this exercise is partly to mirror the works of GK Chesterton. I think this is a pretty good immitation.
The Santa comparison is a false parallel. If 90% of adults in our society believed in Santa, than it would be comparable and then there would be good reason for even those who don't believe in him to try and convince others to; especially if it effects our politics / society / relationships etc.
myintellectualjourny 1 year ago
"The Santa comparison is a false parallel."
Exactly MIJ! That is my point. Yet how often do atheists compare my belief's to just that? It seems that its OK to insult my beliefs in God by making the comparison to flying spaghetti, Santa, or the tooth fairy but when I rebut...its no longer valid. I say its never valid and agree with your completely. Thanks for your feedback.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012
Well, that from a secular perspective, beliefs in gods, fairies, santa and so on are all in the same category - the category of belif in imaginary man-made characters. So in that sense, it makes sense for the Atheist to put them in the same category.
The sense I was saying they r not in the same category, is a question of how many people - including adults - believe in a god compared to the others. This difference is one good reasons 4 non-believers to care about discussing it.
myintellectualjourny 1 year ago
Great Video! I've been curious about G.K. Chesterton. Ravi Zacharias quotes him a lot.
Gentle135 1 year ago
Greetings my friend,
May I start with I respect what you choose to believe as I do all ot do as long as they cause no one any harm. I am responding only because of what I see as great prejudice and perhaps a more profound hypocrisy on your part in this video, I can not know your life so I can not judge all of it as you have wrong done here saying you know what all non Christians think, do believe or feel. That is of course silly and ego based.
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
1- you say you get “tons” of people trying to de-convert you, I will have to take your word for that. What is a ton in this matter? Are they really trying to de-convert you, tell you that what you believe is a lie, that you are lost, blind and foolish as you are doing to them or are some just defending themselves against your attacks. The same attacks that seem to bother you so when addressed to you and your belief?
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
2- It is only right when you do it? No one should defend them when you stand telling them they are lost blind fools and their children and family?
3- You say these people, you seem to say all atheist as you addressed it tall atheist, may I ask how you know all atheists?
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
4- You say that all have large egos yet your video is you fully flexing your ego, you are right and anyone else is wrong and lost just as one example. You are good and smart and they bad and lost fools, and you speak of others ego?
5- You demand all attend your party because you are there its just must be the best party after all, you are there so it has to be, right?
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
6- I wish you to believe what ever you desire to just do not harm others and try and give to all others the very same kindness and respect you seek for your self and family and belief.
be well and happy..
It will be great when all can party together, sharing with respects thoughts and beliefs, no ego based personal attacks or demanding all must believe as we choose to..
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
6. The only reason I cannot completely abide by that same mantra is due to the fact that I actually care whether you are right or wrong in your disbelief because of the "consequences" line from the video. It would be heartless of me to let you live and let live without so much as a conversation. That said, Scripture is clear that I am to share but not force doctrine down anyone's throat. Thanks for your commentary.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 see there it is, I believe you are fully wrong, I was raised, schooled and spend decades in study of the Christian belief and bible and its history I know the book and belief better than most.
But I respect what you choose to believe and the other God based believe who are trying " to save me" will you allow them to "save you"?
Sharing is good telling people that are evil lost blind fools is not
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
You seem to think my hypocrisy stems from the fact that I need to save the lost but do not appreciate it when they try to save me. Let's say that does make me a hypocrite. Again...if you were to free me and deliver me from my delusion...what have you, the atheist "saved me" from? Nothing. I die, you die, we all die and that's it. SO why bother? My efforts stem from believing there is an eternity to think about. IF that makes me a hypocrite, then I can deal with it.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 . Once again my friend you ignore I am not a materialist Atheist 2- Many materialist Atheist have very happy lives and do not fear or care there if there is no life after this. 3 you keep ignoring I am also talking about other god based beliefs if you are wrong and they right you are in grave danger.
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
JBK:
"Sharing is good telling people that are evil lost blind fools is not "
Me: you are trying to establish a neutral ground where none can exist, by objecting to a person going beyond sharing and into trying to convince one he is wrong.
But what did you employ to make your point? You told Edge what was "good" and then said what he is doing (or at least your characterization of it is) "is not"
If something "is not" "good" -- then what is it?
mtcanz 1 year ago
4 & 5 are your characterizations of what I've said and your opinion as to what I am doing. My intent, though perhaps poorly executed was to return volley to those that use these silly techniques. And I did intend to do so with the same overall tone I am getting...which is somewhat biting and insulting. Again...not necessarily aimed at you.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 The same silly and rude techniques you use? I believe it is time we share thoughts and beliefs.
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
2. Someone is right and someone is wrong...we can't both be if we are speaking about opposing ideas. That said, I believe there is a respectable way to have the conversation and reiterate to you that this is purposefully stinging parody to those that have crossed that line with me in the past. It is not intended for persons like you who seem to know the boundaries.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
3. I don't know all of them. Generalization of a "type of atheist" is what I was going for. And for some reason I don't seem to attract a large amount of the kind that fail to fit the stereotype.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 1 - you know not all atheist are on youtube, not even .00000000001% are yet you make a video attacking all or "most". If I said all Christians rape children and murder because some do you would call me a hate filled fool.
2- I will say again, you want to tell all people they are lost blind fools but become angry if they defend or say such to you/
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
JBK...You must not be reading my responses to you. I admit I don't know ALL atheists AND I admit that this video is only for a select group that behave in a certain way. If you look at the majority of my videos, I do not normally return tit for tat like this. You also keep saying that I call people blind fools and that just not the case.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 I read all things that are write to me. In your video you said these things. I must run, be well
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
I have been on YouTube for three years in July. And I have blogged since 2006. On average I have encountered either the insulting, name calling variety of atheiest OR the ones that sincerely just want to help me get over my delusion at least once per week. Four years times once per week (which I think is a low estimate) is 208. Granted some people come back as repeat offenders so I doubt that is an actual number of people but more represenative of occurences.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
2. Someone is right and someone is wrong...we can't both be if we are speaking about opposing ideas. That said, I believe there is a respectable way to have the conversation and reiterate to you that this is purposefully stinging parody to those that have crossed that line with me in the past. It is not intended for persons like you who seem to know the boundaries.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 that is a False dichotomy as perhaps none of us are right, but you seek you are demanding you are right and all others wrong. You with respect have never read the holy books of the worlds other beliefs yet you declare they are all wrong. Yet when this is done to you, you complain. Can you see what i am saying?
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
Yes...to some degree we are ALL hedging our bets and you might call that "faith" in my case. However, IF I am convinced that I am right I reiterate that it would be cruel of me to NOT share that with you. The reason you can so easily live and let live in comparison to me is that by your belief system, I am not in any inherent danger nor am I rejecting eternal bliss.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 I respect you are "convinced that I am right " all are, if you demand it is fact then you must prove it as all must.
I am in no danger of eternal torture, but you may be if any of the other God based beliefs is true.
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 . I too have been on youtube for years and countless times told by Christians and other Theist I am an evil, lost blind fool who has no morals.
I do not make a video saying all Christians are this or that, do this or that, I do not know all or most Christians and you do not know most Ateist.
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
If what you claim about how you personally conduct yourself is true then this RSVP letter is not aimed at you specifically. I realize that not ALL atheists use insulting language that they are somehow freethinkers and I am not. Not ALL insult me with Santa comparisons or references to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. However, and unfortunately...many do. This is for them. Thanks for watching and for your kind words and attitudes.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 My friend there are over a billion Atheist and when adding in Buddhist like me, Jain and the other non material Atheist well well over a billion, you do not can not know even a tiny % of them.
Will some be rude, yes as some in all group will be.
What is ironic is you say they insult you with the Santa thing etc but do not feel you are insulting them when you tell them they are lost, blind moral-less fools that is hypocrisy.
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
Strawman Jain. I don't call people blind moral-less fools. And if I mention their status of being lost, I am quick to point out that I spent many years myself in that condition.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 "Strawman Jain."? First you you do not say that ot people then say "when I do" come now.
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
Read this very carefully as I restate:
1. I do NOT call people "blind, moral-less fools". That IS a strawman.
2. When I mention the "lost status" it is quickly followed up by admitting I was once there. I do not equate being lost to being moral-less fools. I do not blame those that have no map for not knowing where to go my friend.
Hope that clarifies it for you.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 There are several times in your video you declare Atheist "silly and foolish," at 8:40 for example Hope that clarifies it for you.
justbekindtooall 1 year ago
Let me ask you a question. If I say you are acting foolish is that the same as calling you a fool? I say no. Furthermore you were very specific with the idea that I am asserting that people are blind, immoral fools. No such descriptors were in the video.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
Debating religious beliefs is much different than debating a belief in Santa. Believers in Santa do not lobby legislators to make laws that discriminate, restrict freedoms, and force their beliefs on others through governmental actions and institutions. Religious groups do. This is one of the reasons many atheists find it important to debate, discuss, and/or present information to believers.
aestimatio 1 year ago
Again...I agree with you BUT Santa is just being returned to those that use it against me. I find bringing him or the tooth fairy into the conversation to be insulting, unproductive, and a horrible strawman correlation to my beliefs. However, IF atheists truly think its on par with Santa...lets take that to its logical conclusion and ask ourselves why we ARE talking abou it if indeed its that silly? You are correct to point out they are not good corellations and ARE worth talking about.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
Your presentation was very creative and almost poetic, but sorely lacking of any substance that would result in effective proselytizing to most atheist. In all likelihood, it will have the opposite effect.
I doubt you are aware how condescending many of your words could be to an atheist, which shows a lack of understanding of an atheist's position. If you are aware, it reflects negatively on your character. I hope the former is the case and not the latter.
aestimatio 1 year ago
The answer is both. I do not intend on being insulting. However, there is a tone that I have and some choice words that I share here that intentionally return the attitudes I get when the deconversion attempts come. If you are not one to engage in the behavior I am criticising...then please disregard any of what I might call "light jabs". Thanks for watching and for the kind words!
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012 It seems that you think the way some atheists have interacted with you hasn’t been constructive and at times rude. You then use this as the rational for the biting remarks in your video. This appears to me to be equivalent to a child’s often heard excuse of “but s/he did it first.” You seem to be an intelligent and articulate person, so it surprises me that you didn’t see a response in-kind to such counterproductive remarks probably wouldn’t be constructive to your proselytization.
aestimatio 1 year ago
1. Let me just see if I have the score straight here: You are critcising my criticism? And is doing so you've elected to defend a group of atheists that operate in a way that you do not support, condone, or engage in yourself?
2. The majority of my work is not tit for tat like this so if you can forgive the rare occassion that I've elected to act childish I would be grateful.
3. Lastly, this exercise is partly to mirror the works of GK Chesterton. I think this is a pretty good immitation.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
But...I would invite you to read some of his works and let me know if you agree or not.
TheEdge012 1 year ago
@TheEdge012
You just need a revolver and the sword-stick.
TheWizzooo 1 year ago