i dont watch the nfl, i hate animal abuse, and i blame him directly for what he did and i think it is wrong, but even if i didn't i dont like idiots, and michael vick is most certainly an idiot.
WoW! the more the words the more the bullshevik. This man is the epitome of Hollywood, explaining away even the most obvious, like calling the sky purple because in some circles it is "purple." Or just because people eat chicken that is factory farmed, somehow makes what Michael Vick did ok? This is what breeds APATHY. And apathy is a symptom of losing one's soul, aka one's HEART.
@moniquemonicat What I like there is fnally someone said it. He should not be going to prison for this. I heard later that he went to prison on gambling charges though.
2 years sounded about right to me. I like animals, and can't abide people who torture them in such ways, however, some people need to get a grip. Saying that he should be killed, locked up forever, or never allowed to play again is exaggerating.
People seem to worship football like it's a GOD! I don't hate dogs, but I prefer cats as pets----I absolutely think anyone who tortures animals is doing wrong---
For all you douches saying you would kill a human to save an animal, picture this. You have a knife. An innocent toddler is playing around, but a hamster accidently (remember that)traps the toddler. You can either knife the hamster and free the child, of put the child down and save the hamster. Really, what would you do? You guys preach that all life is equal then you start ranting about humans being worthless. I doubt any of you could cut Vicks face off. You would vomit despite yourself.
I absolutely love dogs and have several. However, an "eye for an eye" goes against my beliefs and many who hypocritically express otherwise.
I also don't believe in what was done to Osama Bin Laden. I worked in Tower 1, and lost 16 people I knew personally that day. Still, I'm against the savagery our society embraced, celebrating his assassination and makes me feel ashamed to be an American.
I ask myself, what would Jesus do? I doubt he would suggest having Mr. Vick's face ripped off.
mike vick was not just sent to jail for dog fighting and animal cruelty but also for illegal gambling and helping to set up the gambling so 2 year was light but part of the punishment that did fit the crime was when they took some of the money they find him and payed for the life time care of the dogs that could not be rehabilitated instead of having the put down
Sounds like Penn's against the the extremists when it comes to this situation. I don't believe in "eye for an eye" either, but I don't believe Vick deserves all the fame he's gotten after serving his shortened time in jail. That's why we boycott Nike, for endorsing him, nonchalantly. Anyone who ever watched P&T's BS knows they don't really have an interest in dogs, or animals, so his opinion isn't that surprising. However, I would back Penn up on this much more quickly than any Vick supporter.
Penn your total disinterest is the reason you have arrived at this conclusion. Without anthropomorphizing at all, the value of dogs is evident. They are completely at our mercy and dependent on us for survival. They are also not meals, so we are responsible for them. When someone violates that responsibility in such a way as to be sadistic, they deserve to be punished. Two years in prison is not really enough, and i reject your assumption that he will never do this again.
Forget the haters,look at him now flying high with the eagals...HA!.. They gonna really hate when he get's his new contract!...HA... go vick and go eagles!
I think you are a confused little man. If I were the judge I would have given him death. Because I am so compassionate. If I had been at the place where he did that to a dog. I would have killed him. And not a jury in the land would convicet me. You have a block between beasts of burden and house pets. I am sorry for you. And If I have a chance to strike some type of crippling blow to mr vic. I will. And I will enjoy it. I think boycott penn and teller.
Fuck Penn he's a fat ugly republican/libertarian douchebag.
The only reason anyone remotely cares who he is, is because of his magic which he does less and less as he becomes more and more a pontificating money grubbing "celebrity"
forget the haters! vick's back to doing his thing! and those same haters gonna be even more stuck when he get's his new contract deal! haHa.can't keep a real man down!
@vvyperr7 Only a POS has the need to kill animals the way he did. Only thing he is is a bitch who can catch a ball. Course, I wouldn't expect you to know what a real man is anyways.
@SuperSpearhunter Catch a ball? he's the QB he throws the ball! OH yeah my wife and kids are well taken care of that's part of being a real man! Not hating on a blk guy because of something he did that's done and over with, better a dog then a person!
I'd like to see Michael Vick in a pit, fighting a pack of 10 pit bulls who are all going after him at the same time, and hear him scream as they tear him limb from limb.
2 years is "excessive" for torturing an animal? Sorry, I do NOT have "compassion" for a bitch who tortures animals.
Sinse when GOD made dogs and man to the same degree? someone please piont to me in the word of god when he refers to dogs being a higher or as a highe of a being than man. God put man in domion over the land the foul(THAT"S BIRDS FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DON'T KNOW) and all that dwell within! People do far worse to other people and get less! penn's statement was well said,basicly it's hateful people looking for an excuse to hate!
@SuperSpearhunter GOD also didn't mean for people to be fighting and killing each other either but hey we do! Anyway! Nomatter what you think he did the crime he done the time! HAte all you want he don't give two nickels about it! He gonna be laughing all the way to the bank because his football skillz are so great!
Mike Vick served more time than Donte Stallworth (WR) who killed a man with his car while drunk! He got 30 days in prison but only served 23 and is now back in the NFL! People makes such a big deal of Mike Vick only because he is SO GOOD!!!
I thought when I saw the title Penn would be ripping into Micheal Vick. I think what he did to those does is fucked up. I think his job should not be considered in his punishment. However, they were dogs. Some people get more time for manslaughter. Dogs are not people. Glad he put this video out. I get it.
I guess I am supposed to view this on CRACKLE, but on YouTube it plays for a few seconds, then drops out as if it's the end of the vid. Very frustrating.
So 2 years is excessive because you equivocate what Vick did to "ordering a chicken dinner causes[ing] the torture of animals", but then go on to say, "certainly what Michael Vick did is a crime", implying that you accept the criminalization of it.
You'll find it less contradictory not to equivocate the harming of animals for resource acquisition to animal torture for it's own sake. 2 years for a violent crime in not excessive.
I understand our consciousness and sympathy make the death of an animal seem wrong but if it weren't for our highly developed emotions hunting would be as natural and necessary as breathing. I see vegetarianism in some ways as I see religion, it is motivated by good intentions but rooted in faulty logic. If it works for you, great, but don't consider someone immoral because they choose to do what humans have been doing for the last 200,000 years.
... I know that the vast majority of human society is "unnatural" but if you advocate for healthy holistic living why would that not include meat. Industrial farming is terrible for all parties involved (farm animals, consumers, the environment) but that does not mean that there isn't organic farming that treats animals with respect. Would they be less offended if we killed the animals ourselves in the wild? That might be ideal but is obviously an impossible task for all of society to perform...
Penn is a very intelligent and good man but I have to disagree strongly. First off, to compare someone ordering meat to someone forcing animals to fight and electrocuting them to death is simplistic at best, idiotic at worst. I understand vegetarians have compassion for animals but the divide they put between animals and humans is nonsensical and unnatural. Humans are omnivore animals, omnivores eat meat, it is not morally wrong to do what I evolved to do...
Really! Wow two years was def not enough.... I think you should stick to what your partly good at! This is def not a subject you need to put your two cents in!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm glad that POS did it. It brought light to a hanus activity. Did he pay too heavy of price for it? Maybe. Should we forgive him? You can.. maybe someday I would too if he proves to the world he can be a decent human being again.. it will take LOTS of convincing me. So far all I see is a "I'm sorry I got caught" routine. I'm all for people non-violently shaming him.
all these haters are hilarous, they talk shit it about him all the time on the internet but i bet they would never say that stuff to his face, vick would beat the shit out of all the haters
@208jodi Don't slander Penn just because can't think of a single supportable argument against him. I don't agree with him 100%, but responding with, "get a haircut and get a real job!" only shows the severe limits of your intellect.
Jeez it took you a long time to say nothing. He never gave the dogs a second chance, he did it over and over and over. The man is a POS. You know why we find the torturing of innocent animals repugnant? Because they couldn't ask for help, you are comparing apples and oranges. For one thing, it's illegal, those dogs were forced to fight.
@MrWarriorsMom Umm..i own a pittbull, love her like family. I have been around pits quite a lot. You dont "force" them to fight. they LOVE to fight. Sorry, but its true. I dont fight my dog nor do i want anything to do with that activity but Penn point is great here, he just didnt do it the way i would have which would be to call people who call for physical violence toward vick simple hypocrites. Although special kind of hypocrites becauuse they THINK they are compassionate. Whatever. who cares
Same here, vick is a treacherous sociopath. He threw his whole family under the bus and blamed them for the dog fighting. He will stab you in the back quicker than any dog will bite your leg. He is a scum bag, POS.
@MrWarriorsMom And you are a nobody. Vick just signed a 20 million dollar/one year contract. Hell, he lost close to 140 million dollars. You won't see that type of money no matter how long you live, LOL.
I guess you are the type that'd sell your soul for money. I could care less if he signed a contract for 100 million, the pitbulls lost their lives, the 140 million don't make up for it. That's Ok, I'd rather keep my soul than do horrible things for money.
I'm not always in support of Penn's opinion, but I agree that Mike's punishment was strict compared to the sentencing for that asshole who constantly stabbed and maimed cows on the Conklin Dairy Farm. (If you're not familiar with it, look up the original video by MFA.)
Animals on factory farms are routinely abused as a precursor to being dismembered, then scalded or bled to death all while being fully conscious.
With this in mind, how can we logically endorse factory farming and not dog fights?
@pocketocrisps because its not the same in anyway shape or form// cows bring us food they dont love us and cuddle us like dogs. cows dont give a shit if they have ppl in their life.. DOGS DO .dogs bring joy. you cant compare a dog to a cow thats just silly. We eat cows we dont eat dogs they are family. cows are not.
@208jodi You are completely wrong. Farm animals are just as capable of loving and being loved as dogs. Many cultures, including China, will tell you that dog meat is the best out there.
Pigs are more intelligent, easier to train, and they love affection just like pet animals.
There are farmers out there who are more attached to cows more than dogs. One even cloned his calf once it died.
There's no doubt in my mind that sixty years ago you would've been racist. You have a brain, please use it.
Fuck you hating ass people stop bashing Vick he paid his price for his mistake and his stupidity so leave him in peace and forgive him for fighting dogs he done very good for himself now come on if it was PEYTON YOU PEOPLE WOULD FORGIVE AND HEEL.
@Phillygunstars Oh quit playing the victim race card... does not give you a card to be a sociopath and murder animals.. he pais his debt.. BUT I CAN STILL HATE HIM.. AND IM FREE TO DO THAT.
sad . I dont believe 2yrs in jail was correct punishment i think a mental evaluation was necessary. he is asick man most people who fight dogs do it for money . This was a sick fuckin man who did it to feel bad ass. and boost his ego. Heshould beevaluated and never allowed to own dogs. he shouldbe reqired to do customer service for many years!!
He committed a crime and he was punished for it. Why the hell do people have to bring up the old "people over animals" argument? If something is wrong, it's wrong. It's wrong to murder someone, it's wrong to steal from people, it's wrong to rape someone, and it's wrong to torture any living creature, human or animal. And if you do eat factory farm meat, you are contributing to extreme suffering of animals, it doesn't matter if they nourish you, it's still a contribution to suffering.
I don't go for that whole eye for an eye thing but I definatley don't think 2 years is excessive, I think 5 would be well within range, any higher, yes, probably a bit excessive.
First off, I respect Penn. It almost hurts me to post something against what I man that I respect says. First off, I do love dogs. Sorry Penn, no Freudian freak-out that you seem to have. But hey, I do drink alcohol, and I'm aware that Penn has respected himself an never abused substances. I have not met Penn, he has not met me. Sorry, I don't believe that jail time is a worthy excuse for rehabilitation. Can I rape your child, and do "my time" and be worthy of being an NFL superstar again? Yay..
Fuck Vick! I would like to let one of my dogs rip his fucking face off. He's a sick fuck who should of been put away for a lot longer then just 18 months
What's disturbing to me about the whole situation is how relatively few people baying for Michael Vick's blood are calling for the torturers employed by the CIA and the DoD to be similarly tortured as retribution for their torture of human beings. In fact, any time people put animals above humans I find it disturbing.
@JBfan88 Anytime ppl put humans above animals I find it disturbing. They value their lives just as much as humans do. And humans are fuck-ups, look at this planet. Anyways go Vick! You might be a fuck-up but you is one hella qb!
@grandmasterreggae Are you retarded? Eating animals, yeah well we're omnivores so we do that for survival. Yeah we could go without but it doesnt change shit and meat has lots of nutrients. I didnt say shit about murder (or cannabilism? hahaha). You are just tryin to be witty, in fact you're fucking stupid.
@sloanmidwestXTC i second that notion about vick being a hell of a qb, but to say that a dogs life is more valueable ( i know i spelled it wrong) than a humans life is fucking retarded. what has a dog contributed to the progress of mankind? absolutely nothing. what has a human being contributed to the progress of mankind? well, we wouldnt be having this conversation if it wasnt for humans. what im trying to say is that dogs are animals and humans are.... well humans
@TheRabbit223 Humans are animals with big brains, who spend much of their time deciding how important they really are. What good have we really done for the world? Plenty for ourselves, and sure the animals we deem important. Other than that?
@JBfan88 why would people be calling for the CIA torturers to be tortured when we're talking about Michael Vick? Start up a topic about CIA torturers and then see how many people want them to have their balls electrocuted. I could say that I find it odd that no one here is calling for child molesters to have their balls chomped off by a rabid monkeys, but that would be incredibly off topic, and would make no sense.
I almost always agree with Penn, but I don't agree that loving an animal takes love away from people 1:30 "I always fee that there's some love that's going to the dog that should go to people". He's making the same mistake many Socialists make, there's only so much (wealth or love) in the bucket. If your slice of the pie is too big, someone else will get a smaller piece. Grow it, multiply it, it's not a zero sum gain. Dogs or animals can bring people closer.
Comparing what Vick did to the dogs to the plight of factory farmed animals is a fallacy. Chickens, cows and pigs nourish humans and therefore we are justified in killing them. Their lives are not wasted for sport but sacrificed for the well-being of another animal—namely us!
@80439 not really. Factory farms are not a necessity and the torture and torment that those animals go through is also not necessary. They are tortured for convenience. I don't see how anyone could justify that sort of treatment of another living creature. And 90% of the product created from that torture is unhealthy garbage. It's not meant for nourishment, it's meant to make money. Bacon is not created for the well-being of anyone except perhaps the doctors prescribing your heart meds.
@katydidanderik I never said anything about factory farms being a necessity. They are an atrocity. However, the animals are not abused for fun; only for the purpose of making food. Factory farms are obviously not OK but Penn is making an invalid comparison. As for bacon, people have eaten it (or something like it) for 1000s of years. We can handle modest amounts of it. It's fake stuff like hydrogenated oils and processed foods in general that are kill us.
Penn ignores fact that Vick knew what he was doing and knew the potential consequences when he set up his doggie torture operation and he did it anyway. Ripping his face off would be absurd but two years in the joint is the price he paid for his fun. Hanging around with gang members and shooting and electrocuting dogs is mighty fuckin' frowned upon by the law and you'd better believe that they'll make an example of a rich man when they get the chance.
wish i could roomate with this dude..big house and says wtf he wants, thinks, and almost lives! crack and a thought= goes a long way. good job man good job
Well this gets to the purpose of legal punishment altogether. Do we lock people up because they're dangerous and the public should be protected from them, do we do it as a deterrent so that the knowledge you'll be punished makes people not want to commit the crime in the first place, or do we do it because of some moral belief that people who do bad things deserve to be punished because it satisfies our sense of justice and makes us feel good?
@zofspade I wish rehabilitation was as easy as it sounded. Also, I think that the main reason that we punish people is the third reason. It's easy to defeat to arguments against punishment by saying "but how will the families of the victims feel," and it's hard to say that those victims aren't always right just because they were the ones who experienced the crime.
@LanceDirk That's why the victims should have no say in the sentencing. I agree that the third reason is the main one, but that doesn't make it right. Punishing someone because its cathartic is immoral and not compassionate.
If we lock them up because they are dangerous, then why are more than half our prisoners non-violent offenders and substance abusers? Who are we protecting here?
If its a deterrent, then explain the high recidivism rate.
All three reasons are wrong, which is why we should get rid of the idea of "punishment". Prison is a relatively new form of punishment, and it doesn't work. Rehabilitation is easy, if we just invested more in it.
@zofspade I would have to see a lot evidence that rehabilitation really can work before I can support it, and I feel like some people are mentally ill and beyong rehabilitation. But yes, I think the idea that some people morally deserve to be punished is ridiculous. It's an animal instinct and we're supposed to be better than that.
Vic, I'm sorry I have no compassion for, a least Baseball had the BALLS to make a statement with Pete Rose (dont know if I agree with it)..Look at the NBA Thugs, thugs and more thugs Fuck Vic and the NFL...besides Hockey doesnt bread a bunch of cry pussy football pre-madonnas....thanks I'll go back to my Scotch now in the end Karma will teach the student
@richietcb You have no compassion for Micheal Vick? That makes you worse. The NFL has no place in "punishment". He served his time; what more do you want? If you don't think he was "punished" enough, take it up with the legal system. If you think he received a just sentence (as Penn states, it was excessive), then the NFL shouldn't do anything extra.
penn i get what your saying. but 2 years is not going over board. what vick did was wrong. now im not going a peta on you they are just on the other extream. i would not want him to be a part of my teem/ company. and i guess im just one mean nast person. but i think he should be shot for what he did. and penn im sorry to say i lost respect for you today. but your just the type who doesnt give a crap
The reason I say this is because Michael had no regrets and he never stopped his cruelty until he got caught and his crime took away his Hundred Million dollar plus endorsments. Saying he's sorry is bullshit. A great expression by the way.
Penn brings up a lot of great points. Dog fighting is somewhat different.. Its two dogs fighting one another.. Although i don't agree with it, and i think its disgusting that people find enjoyment in putting two angry dogs in a ring to fight to the death, there are limits. But I absolutely hate people who get enjoyment out of abusing or killing animals for no other reason then to feel powerful, those are the types that end up abusing children, or murder without remorse, and should be punished.
he did his time, hes clearly sorry for it and you can tell by how hes playing football
dont fucking tell me he should be playing like shit ...because what if you did did something horrible and in the end of it all you feel youve shown that your sorry for what you did yet people wont believe you ....
how you would you feel?...exactly...oh and didnt he even make a organization against dog fights?
One of the few things that I disagree with Penn on.Causing pain to an animal for your enjoyment only, not to mention killing and wasting an animal which could be used for food(just substitute dog for other animal) is a terrible thing to do.I don't see how compassion is even apart of this??? The man needed to be punished for his crime not given compassion!?!?! I love animals but I'm not an "animal lover", I understand pain and suffering is part of life, but for enjoyment against your will? Nope.
i'm not a big penn and teller fan...but you just won over a fan with that breakdown that reasoning is hard to argue with even though some right wing puritanical hypocrite will. He said it was bit excessive and it was...but i guess dogs are more redeemable than humans too huh!
I get where Penn is coming from on this, in the sense of wanting revenge vs. wanting justice. I don't think he's saying that something shouldn't happen, although he clearly states that he think 2 years is excessive. I disagree on that as we all know, he didn't serve 2 years he served one and is on probation, which, seems good considering he had nothing like this prior ( I'll leave the pot debate for now). What got me was the wanton act of killing something for no reason, which is erehensible.
I agree to disagree on this one, if someone commits a crime they should be detoured in someway from doing it again.
but lets say it was just a fine, and he was ending up making more money from these underground dog fights even if he were paying fines, it would not stop him from doing them. In this case personal time is more of a detour-rent.
I'm rarely in disagreement with Penn, but I think he missed the mark on this one. Everyone who wants punishment and accountability don't necessarily claim to be overly compassionate and those are not incompatible themes anyway.
the hypocrisy of a nation that sold people into slavery would even think to talk about micheal vick... the anger amazes me, why is it when black people do wrong things...the outrage. but the church have sex with kids...there are no words? the church is still up an running...
when i listen to a lot of penn's monologues/discussions/beliefs, i'm really happy that teller never talks about all this shit in the same way penn does. it's cool that penn thinks what he thinks, but just as he says he 'boycotts' musicians who he later learns are christian, there are a lot of things he says that actively reduce my enjoyment of him as a performer. i respect his right to speak out about what he believes, it just makes it tough for me to appreciate him.
i did get my cut...no white people went to jail for slavery... as i recall there ass got paid for their lost.... know your history... mick vick is a saint as it relates to the history of america.... where the hell is the shame in that....to enlsave human beings
@Infinitegore No he's not. Its all sport. Besides I haev a question. ARe you for the life of the many unborn babies who get slaughtered every year at PP? Trust me that is much more gruesome that some silly dog fight.
He's got a good point when he says sentancing from hate and revenge is wrong. This happens too often. HOWEVER he's not seeing the point if he doesn't like dogs and feels uncomfortable around them, it sounds like he thinks because they are mean pitbulls we shouldn't care about animal cruelty. The sport of dogfighting is creating mean pitbulls,
I think the REAL crime here is Penn taking 9 minutes to express a point that should have taken 1 minute. Stop rambling!
I agree with writergarret. Penn has kids. I personally don't care for them. If this case had been about kids would his view have been the same? Vick wasn't some poor slob with no income trying to use dog fighting to earn cash to save his dying child. Vick was some rich asshole who had no feelings and though it would be fun to make some extra $ torturing animals. He deserved 10 years, at least. Would I feel differently if it were about kids? NO! I'd still hate Vick if he were that slob
@jemjean If you are saying what happens to an animal is morally equal to what happens to a human being, then I disagree. Domesticated or not, the point is human life is more important than animal life.
@cigar420 This point of view is why our world is the mess it is. Someone once said, "If you want a friend, get a dog." He was right. Animals have every right to exist and to be treated with the reverence and respect we give to any creature we pop out into this world. It's pure arrogance to assume that a human life means more than an animal life. Every day we learn so much from animals. They love us when our own won't. They give more than they take and they deserve love and protection.
@cigar420 Then try this one on for size. A human being with the capacity to treat a dog like that has a much higher potential to be able to treat another human being like that.
And, since you're obviously a moron, with NO clue about morals, I hope your God sees fit to make the rest of your life the equivalent of a dog's. Of course, I'm wishing this on you out of 'compassion', so that you might gain a better understanding and concern for ALL of God's creatures.
Murdering and abusing lower sentient Animals like this is a sign of sociopathy. But I agree, no need to hate him, but hate the lack of proper law making in regards to the penile system. Parliamentary branches regulate this. Not Vick, or Lawyers. I hate plea Bargains. DMX go to jail when they found the dogs in his back yard? It is possible Vick has other violent acts against human beings he was not caught doing, it's the sort of pathology of a creature like this.
I'm not trying to argue that dogs are as valuable as humans when it comes to performing tasks that humans value (like curing cancer or doing algebra). I'm just saying this all very relative. So we can cure diseases, but that doesn't give us any inherent value in terms of the universe. It's just silly to say that human beings (as a species) are special because we're not. We're just primates that are fortunate enough to have evolved a high level of intelligence.
@MaxAC40 No, it's not compassionate, but I don't understand how two years is excessive. Giving a life sentence isn't very compassionate either, so what should we do? If the only purpose in incarcerating people is to deter them from committing the same crime, how much time does a murder really deserve? What about a psychopathic serial killer who will almost inevitably commit the same crime if they are released?
@doombuggy123 I didn't say whether it's excessive or not
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I'm pointing out that sentences aren't necessarily given out of compassion, and that compassion isn't necessarily the driving force behind justice
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Penn thinks the sentence is excessive, but that's only if you're considering compassion to be the measure of the punishment. It's different if you see justice from the perspective of retribution.
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I'm not sure if I'm clear, but it's only excessive from a compassionate perspective.
@MaxAC40 I understand that, but what's the alternative? Giving compassionate sentences that would amount to only a couple years or months for murders, rapists and pedophiles? Is that enough to deter them from future crimes?
This is off-the-cuff but: a justice system of compassion implies choice for the offender (Is it worth it) An alternative is fear of retaliation . Criminals weigh the costs, and act anyway. If costs are too high, they won't. A break-in is worth it, unless the victim can use lethal force fear of unknown is why guns often=less crime . If I have a spoon and say I'll torture you with this, your imagination will be more terrifying than any reality. Your cost becomes unrealistically high . =deterrence
This is off-the-cuff but: a justice system of compassion implies choice for the offender (Is it worth it)
An alternative is fear of retaliation
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Criminals weigh the costs, and act anyway. If costs are too high, they won't. A break-in is worth it, unless the victim can use lethal force
fear of unknown is why guns often=less crime
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If I have a spoon and say I'll torture you with this, your imagination will be more terrifying than any reality. Your cost becomes unrealistically high. deterrence
@cyberianfirst well I don't believe in an eye for an eye. I believe in two eyes for an eye. I'm with you on this.
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On his 'dog problem': he's put this same argument up for a lot of issues. Anything where people want to see harm inflicted on a person, he's said this. And its his "show" so its his job to be a wack-job and put his thoughts out on issues.
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I think he gets caught up with what's "ideal" and how things are. If we were all compassionate, vick wouldn't have done it in the first place.
You have a very poor understanding of animal and human behavior. You can't separate humans from animals because we are animals, we are apes and we have and use instincts. Animal intelligence happens on a sliding scale, humans happen to be very intelligent so they are on one extreme of that scale, but that doesn't put them on entirely different field of existence. Dogs can count, albeit small numbers, but they have a concept of quantity and a very good understanding of time.
Maybe Penn would pull his head out of his ass on this one if he went onto the battlefield over in Afghanistan and watched some of the K-9 unit in action...especially if he watched the interaction between the dogs, their handlers, and their units.
Maybe then he'd get just a glint of understanding at the moral outrage that people feel upon discovering that a wasted bag of shit like Vick was subjecting these creatures to torture and horrendous deaths "for fun".
You don't believe people should be punished after committing a crime? So where do you stand on punishing people who commit violent acts on human beings? Is a life sentence excessive? If you're only trying to deter someone from murdering again, is two years excessive? I find it hard to believe that this is a form of logic you would consistently follow.
Michael Vick killed DOGS, not humans, DOGS!!! Stop comparing a human life to an animal life. Most of you who are mad at Vick EAT MEAT! so you think that torturing them is bad, but killing them is perfectly ok? Bunch of hypocrites. What purpose does a dog's life have? absolutely none. The only reason why they come back to you is because you feed and pet them. You are their bitch. here' a simple equation that we should go by (humans > animals). Not the other way around.
@doombuggy123 To make a difference in society. We actually have the power to think and plan things. We have the power to invent and develop useful ideas and products. Human life has more purpose than other animals.
@Sueds90 For the sake of argument let's just ignore the role that other species play in their own societies is no different than the role humans play in a human society, and that other species do have intellectual capabilities that most people greatly underestimate.
Human value is determined by other humans, not by some divine universal concept - it's not inherent. We will be irrelevant when our species is extinct. In fact, we're irrelevant now. We make no significant impact on the universe.
@doombuggy123 Most, if not all animals live off of instinct, and they can't think of things logically. They can't count, they can't plan what they are doing next tuesday, they can't understand easy concepts, and they have small, and almost useless language. I get what you are saying. But comparing a human that could create a cure for something to a dog that will eat grass and shit the rest of his life without having any responsibilities is absurd.
@Sueds90 I'm just going to chime in that you should check out the penn says on pain. seems like some food for thought
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watch?v=u7E0Xr0_exA
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I haven't read your discussion so I can't really comment, but I would say (in response to penn on pain) that animals can remember and recognize pain because that's often how they're trained
@MaxAC40 It's not even how they're trained, speaking in terms of evolution it just makes sense for an animal to be able to anticipate and remember pain so they can hopefully prevent or avoid a painful situation in the future, better chance of survival that way. A species that can't anticipate pain, suffering and eventually death is not going to last very long.
@Sueds90 I've read the posts of an awful lot of bottom-feeders over the years, but you're at the very bottom of the toilet bowl.
What's the purpose of Life, dirtbag? I don't mean YOUR worthless life, I mean ANY life...
To perpetuate itself. You think you're all that, but all you are is a chemical cocktail of DNA looking to keep itself going, procreating as instinctually as the lowest vermin. You rut and go 'in heat' like any other bitch, of any species. Everything else is illusory.
Hey asshole! How about we torture YOU first, THEN kill you, and you let us know if there was a difference, OK shithead?
Rescue dogs give their lives trying to save people. Family pets die protecting their human families, and military dogs are given full hero's burials by the soldiers they serve with.
That makes them higher on the evolutionary ladder than putrid pieces of shit like you, in my book.
BTW, was Vick eating his kill?
And tell us, what purpose does YOUR life have? None.
I absolutely wanted to rip MV's face off. It is an emotionally charged issue, and I don't think we have any more control of what we want than what we believe. But I don't think I was uncompassionate. We may not always be able to control feelings but compassion comes from how we act on them. But two years doesn't seem unreasonable to me. He knew the risks and he got caught. Plus it brought the issue into the limelight and hopefully more is being done against this abhorrent practice.
I almost always agree with Penn, but apparently not when it comes to animals. In BS he said something along the lines of murdering all chimpanzees in the world to save the life of one AIDS ridden individual. I just can't see why a human life is worth so much infinitely more than an animal's. And no, I am not a wacko PETA member or vegetarian or anything. I just think that humane treatment should be given to all animals with the brain power to appreciate it.
how come when you people go into a restaurant and eat something that was killed, you dont talk about that. or when species become extinct because you took over their environment to build wal marts? i am no fucking tree hugger but it sounds like hypocrisy to me. talking shit about someone doing something to animals when you turn around and do it.
Hi Penn fans. Penn Says videos have been discontinued, so you won't be seeing any new content on here. You can check out our Profile on our Channel Page for more info. We'll still be checking in, so hope to keep chatting with you all! Thanks!
Michael Vick is a changed man you all are losers anyway!!!!
DeepSouthBlackMan 2 weeks ago
i dont watch the nfl, i hate animal abuse, and i blame him directly for what he did and i think it is wrong, but even if i didn't i dont like idiots, and michael vick is most certainly an idiot.
naturalistmind 1 month ago
WoW! the more the words the more the bullshevik. This man is the epitome of Hollywood, explaining away even the most obvious, like calling the sky purple because in some circles it is "purple." Or just because people eat chicken that is factory farmed, somehow makes what Michael Vick did ok? This is what breeds APATHY. And apathy is a symptom of losing one's soul, aka one's HEART.
moniquemonicat 3 months ago
@moniquemonicat What I like there is fnally someone said it. He should not be going to prison for this. I heard later that he went to prison on gambling charges though.
feldman30012 1 month ago
this guy is a freekin idiot
ChangingTimes1 3 months ago
2 years sounded about right to me. I like animals, and can't abide people who torture them in such ways, however, some people need to get a grip. Saying that he should be killed, locked up forever, or never allowed to play again is exaggerating.
Leatherbubba 4 months ago
You are seriously wrong on this one, Penn. Vick deserves NO compassion for what he did, and he should have been put in solitary for 20 years!
hznfrst 4 months ago
People seem to worship football like it's a GOD! I don't hate dogs, but I prefer cats as pets----I absolutely think anyone who tortures animals is doing wrong---
micmoable 4 months ago
I don't give a crap about football either and dogs stink---cats all the way---LONG LIVE THE FELINES
micmoable 4 months ago
For all you douches saying you would kill a human to save an animal, picture this. You have a knife. An innocent toddler is playing around, but a hamster accidently (remember that)traps the toddler. You can either knife the hamster and free the child, of put the child down and save the hamster. Really, what would you do? You guys preach that all life is equal then you start ranting about humans being worthless. I doubt any of you could cut Vicks face off. You would vomit despite yourself.
urpaderpa 4 months ago
I absolutely love dogs and have several. However, an "eye for an eye" goes against my beliefs and many who hypocritically express otherwise.
I also don't believe in what was done to Osama Bin Laden. I worked in Tower 1, and lost 16 people I knew personally that day. Still, I'm against the savagery our society embraced, celebrating his assassination and makes me feel ashamed to be an American.
I ask myself, what would Jesus do? I doubt he would suggest having Mr. Vick's face ripped off.
neostormx 5 months ago
mike vick was not just sent to jail for dog fighting and animal cruelty but also for illegal gambling and helping to set up the gambling so 2 year was light but part of the punishment that did fit the crime was when they took some of the money they find him and payed for the life time care of the dogs that could not be rehabilitated instead of having the put down
cdh98 6 months ago
Sounds like Penn's against the the extremists when it comes to this situation. I don't believe in "eye for an eye" either, but I don't believe Vick deserves all the fame he's gotten after serving his shortened time in jail. That's why we boycott Nike, for endorsing him, nonchalantly. Anyone who ever watched P&T's BS knows they don't really have an interest in dogs, or animals, so his opinion isn't that surprising. However, I would back Penn up on this much more quickly than any Vick supporter.
FuglyZombie 6 months ago
Penn your total disinterest is the reason you have arrived at this conclusion. Without anthropomorphizing at all, the value of dogs is evident. They are completely at our mercy and dependent on us for survival. They are also not meals, so we are responsible for them. When someone violates that responsibility in such a way as to be sadistic, they deserve to be punished. Two years in prison is not really enough, and i reject your assumption that he will never do this again.
Nonsensei436 6 months ago
Forget the haters,look at him now flying high with the eagals...HA!.. They gonna really hate when he get's his new contract!...HA... go vick and go eagles!
vvyperr7 6 months ago
I think you are a confused little man. If I were the judge I would have given him death. Because I am so compassionate. If I had been at the place where he did that to a dog. I would have killed him. And not a jury in the land would convicet me. You have a block between beasts of burden and house pets. I am sorry for you. And If I have a chance to strike some type of crippling blow to mr vic. I will. And I will enjoy it. I think boycott penn and teller.
lastpatriot4America 6 months ago
Fuck Penn he's a fat ugly republican/libertarian douchebag.
The only reason anyone remotely cares who he is, is because of his magic which he does less and less as he becomes more and more a pontificating money grubbing "celebrity"
sharkattacksteve 6 months ago
I agree Penn! Thank you for your willingness to protect free speech. You have changed my politics forever!
rjwohlman 6 months ago
What a long diatribe --yes I can see why you piss your friends off with your positions. . . Penn love your magic/comedy--stick to that.
elmhorse 7 months ago
forget the haters! vick's back to doing his thing! and those same haters gonna be even more stuck when he get's his new contract deal! haHa.can't keep a real man down!
vvyperr7 7 months ago
@vvyperr7 Only a POS has the need to kill animals the way he did. Only thing he is is a bitch who can catch a ball. Course, I wouldn't expect you to know what a real man is anyways.
SuperSpearhunter 7 months ago
@SuperSpearhunter Catch a ball? he's the QB he throws the ball! OH yeah my wife and kids are well taken care of that's part of being a real man! Not hating on a blk guy because of something he did that's done and over with, better a dog then a person!
vvyperr7 7 months ago
I'd like to see Michael Vick in a pit, fighting a pack of 10 pit bulls who are all going after him at the same time, and hear him scream as they tear him limb from limb.
2 years is "excessive" for torturing an animal? Sorry, I do NOT have "compassion" for a bitch who tortures animals.
LambadLambadLambda 7 months ago
Sinse when GOD made dogs and man to the same degree? someone please piont to me in the word of god when he refers to dogs being a higher or as a highe of a being than man. God put man in domion over the land the foul(THAT"S BIRDS FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DON'T KNOW) and all that dwell within! People do far worse to other people and get less! penn's statement was well said,basicly it's hateful people looking for an excuse to hate!
vvyperr7 7 months ago
@vvyperr7 God also didn't put them here for people to abuse and terrorize either.
SuperSpearhunter 7 months ago
@SuperSpearhunter GOD also didn't mean for people to be fighting and killing each other either but hey we do! Anyway! Nomatter what you think he did the crime he done the time! HAte all you want he don't give two nickels about it! He gonna be laughing all the way to the bank because his football skillz are so great!
vvyperr7 7 months ago
Mike Vick served more time than Donte Stallworth (WR) who killed a man with his car while drunk! He got 30 days in prison but only served 23 and is now back in the NFL! People makes such a big deal of Mike Vick only because he is SO GOOD!!!
iwin59 7 months ago
I completely agree with Penn
stefanieam 8 months ago
I thought when I saw the title Penn would be ripping into Micheal Vick. I think what he did to those does is fucked up. I think his job should not be considered in his punishment. However, they were dogs. Some people get more time for manslaughter. Dogs are not people. Glad he put this video out. I get it.
mixmastermeeks 8 months ago
I guess I am supposed to view this on CRACKLE, but on YouTube it plays for a few seconds, then drops out as if it's the end of the vid. Very frustrating.
JBofBrisbane 9 months ago
Apparently, I lack compassion. I'm OK with that.
rmcdaniel423 9 months ago
@rmcdaniel423 sucks to be u
jinishima 8 months ago
So 2 years is excessive because you equivocate what Vick did to "ordering a chicken dinner causes[ing] the torture of animals", but then go on to say, "certainly what Michael Vick did is a crime", implying that you accept the criminalization of it.
You'll find it less contradictory not to equivocate the harming of animals for resource acquisition to animal torture for it's own sake. 2 years for a violent crime in not excessive.
warterra 10 months ago
I understand our consciousness and sympathy make the death of an animal seem wrong but if it weren't for our highly developed emotions hunting would be as natural and necessary as breathing. I see vegetarianism in some ways as I see religion, it is motivated by good intentions but rooted in faulty logic. If it works for you, great, but don't consider someone immoral because they choose to do what humans have been doing for the last 200,000 years.
RiverSolitaire 10 months ago
... I know that the vast majority of human society is "unnatural" but if you advocate for healthy holistic living why would that not include meat. Industrial farming is terrible for all parties involved (farm animals, consumers, the environment) but that does not mean that there isn't organic farming that treats animals with respect. Would they be less offended if we killed the animals ourselves in the wild? That might be ideal but is obviously an impossible task for all of society to perform...
RiverSolitaire 10 months ago
Penn is a very intelligent and good man but I have to disagree strongly. First off, to compare someone ordering meat to someone forcing animals to fight and electrocuting them to death is simplistic at best, idiotic at worst. I understand vegetarians have compassion for animals but the divide they put between animals and humans is nonsensical and unnatural. Humans are omnivore animals, omnivores eat meat, it is not morally wrong to do what I evolved to do...
RiverSolitaire 10 months ago
Really! Wow two years was def not enough.... I think you should stick to what your partly good at! This is def not a subject you need to put your two cents in!!!!!!!!!!!!
SamadaX 10 months ago
I'm glad that POS did it. It brought light to a hanus activity. Did he pay too heavy of price for it? Maybe. Should we forgive him? You can.. maybe someday I would too if he proves to the world he can be a decent human being again.. it will take LOTS of convincing me. So far all I see is a "I'm sorry I got caught" routine. I'm all for people non-violently shaming him.
iversonmatthew 10 months ago
that the truth men
aaron28284 10 months ago
all these haters are hilarous, they talk shit it about him all the time on the internet but i bet they would never say that stuff to his face, vick would beat the shit out of all the haters
thetenzintsung 10 months ago
..meanwhile michael vick is making millions
thetenzintsung 10 months ago
get a haircut and get a real job!
208jodi 11 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@208jodi Don't slander Penn just because can't think of a single supportable argument against him. I don't agree with him 100%, but responding with, "get a haircut and get a real job!" only shows the severe limits of your intellect.
pocketocrisps 11 months ago
Murdering dogs "aesthetically repugnant"? You need to be slapped.
grands1am 11 months ago
Jeez it took you a long time to say nothing. He never gave the dogs a second chance, he did it over and over and over. The man is a POS. You know why we find the torturing of innocent animals repugnant? Because they couldn't ask for help, you are comparing apples and oranges. For one thing, it's illegal, those dogs were forced to fight.
MrWarriorsMom 11 months ago 10
@MrWarriorsMom Umm..i own a pittbull, love her like family. I have been around pits quite a lot. You dont "force" them to fight. they LOVE to fight. Sorry, but its true. I dont fight my dog nor do i want anything to do with that activity but Penn point is great here, he just didnt do it the way i would have which would be to call people who call for physical violence toward vick simple hypocrites. Although special kind of hypocrites becauuse they THINK they are compassionate. Whatever. who cares
blastingcaps 5 months ago
@MrWarriorsMom ok shut up Michael Vick didnt fight he owned property that was a dog fighting ring he is a changed man A MAN OF GOD!!!!!
DeepSouthBlackMan 2 weeks ago
@rodeocowgirlboots
Same here, vick is a treacherous sociopath. He threw his whole family under the bus and blamed them for the dog fighting. He will stab you in the back quicker than any dog will bite your leg. He is a scum bag, POS.
MrWarriorsMom 11 months ago 5
@MrWarriorsMom And you are a nobody. Vick just signed a 20 million dollar/one year contract. Hell, he lost close to 140 million dollars. You won't see that type of money no matter how long you live, LOL.
Bruteshot 11 months ago
@Bruteshot
I guess you are the type that'd sell your soul for money. I could care less if he signed a contract for 100 million, the pitbulls lost their lives, the 140 million don't make up for it. That's Ok, I'd rather keep my soul than do horrible things for money.
MrWarriorsMom 9 months ago
I'm not always in support of Penn's opinion, but I agree that Mike's punishment was strict compared to the sentencing for that asshole who constantly stabbed and maimed cows on the Conklin Dairy Farm. (If you're not familiar with it, look up the original video by MFA.)
Animals on factory farms are routinely abused as a precursor to being dismembered, then scalded or bled to death all while being fully conscious.
With this in mind, how can we logically endorse factory farming and not dog fights?
pocketocrisps 11 months ago
@pocketocrisps because its not the same in anyway shape or form// cows bring us food they dont love us and cuddle us like dogs. cows dont give a shit if they have ppl in their life.. DOGS DO .dogs bring joy. you cant compare a dog to a cow thats just silly. We eat cows we dont eat dogs they are family. cows are not.
208jodi 11 months ago
@208jodi You are completely wrong. Farm animals are just as capable of loving and being loved as dogs. Many cultures, including China, will tell you that dog meat is the best out there.
Pigs are more intelligent, easier to train, and they love affection just like pet animals.
There are farmers out there who are more attached to cows more than dogs. One even cloned his calf once it died.
There's no doubt in my mind that sixty years ago you would've been racist. You have a brain, please use it.
pocketocrisps 11 months ago
SHUT THE HELL UP
Draywatkins87 11 months ago
You can beat women and kill dogs....as long as you are GOOD at football all is forgiven!
licemeat 11 months ago 2
I'd love to see Vick beat this fat fucks ass!
Keyo717 11 months ago
@Keyo717 and I'd love to see a pit bull rip Vick's nuts off...
redbe75 11 months ago
@redbe75 Fuck ugly ass Pit Bulls and the asshole that own them
Keyo717 11 months ago
You should get five years for wasting 9 minutes to say what could have been said in one.
antion 11 months ago
Fuck you hating ass people stop bashing Vick he paid his price for his mistake and his stupidity so leave him in peace and forgive him for fighting dogs he done very good for himself now come on if it was PEYTON YOU PEOPLE WOULD FORGIVE AND HEEL.
Phillygunstars 11 months ago
@Phillygunstars Oh quit playing the victim race card... does not give you a card to be a sociopath and murder animals.. he pais his debt.. BUT I CAN STILL HATE HIM.. AND IM FREE TO DO THAT.
redbe75 11 months ago
@redbe75 no you cant bitch
LilHoover7 11 months ago
For the record, he got 2 years for interstate gambling and lying to a federal officer. 2 years for dogfighting is misrepresentation by the media.
PlacentaPudding 1 year ago
sad . I dont believe 2yrs in jail was correct punishment i think a mental evaluation was necessary. he is asick man most people who fight dogs do it for money . This was a sick fuckin man who did it to feel bad ass. and boost his ego. Heshould beevaluated and never allowed to own dogs. he shouldbe reqired to do customer service for many years!!
lilmommarowl 1 year ago
He committed a crime and he was punished for it. Why the hell do people have to bring up the old "people over animals" argument? If something is wrong, it's wrong. It's wrong to murder someone, it's wrong to steal from people, it's wrong to rape someone, and it's wrong to torture any living creature, human or animal. And if you do eat factory farm meat, you are contributing to extreme suffering of animals, it doesn't matter if they nourish you, it's still a contribution to suffering.
katydidanderik 1 year ago
Michael Vick was a sadistic bastard and what he did was disgustingly cruel, but it's wrong to say he should have his face ripped off!
He should have his damn BALLS ripped off!!
DavidCopsafeel 1 year ago 3
Damn, Penn... Got enough fucking commercials?
MooncalfMagic 1 year ago
I don't go for that whole eye for an eye thing but I definatley don't think 2 years is excessive, I think 5 would be well within range, any higher, yes, probably a bit excessive.
TheDogs0fwar 1 year ago
First off, I respect Penn. It almost hurts me to post something against what I man that I respect says. First off, I do love dogs. Sorry Penn, no Freudian freak-out that you seem to have. But hey, I do drink alcohol, and I'm aware that Penn has respected himself an never abused substances. I have not met Penn, he has not met me. Sorry, I don't believe that jail time is a worthy excuse for rehabilitation. Can I rape your child, and do "my time" and be worthy of being an NFL superstar again? Yay..
ResOGlas 1 year ago 2
@ResOGlas Yes, A type-o saying "what I man" instead of "what a man"...
Flame on, retarded kiddies that just discovered "teh internetz".
ResOGlas 1 year ago
@ResOGlas ask Ben Roethlisberger
yokohama1949 1 year ago
Fuck Vick! I would like to let one of my dogs rip his fucking face off. He's a sick fuck who should of been put away for a lot longer then just 18 months
RunChewToyRun 1 year ago 2
Vick, as his punishment, should be made to fight in the gladiatorial arena for our amusement, like he did to those dogs... oh... wait a second...
JonasPlanck 1 year ago 2
wooooooo go michael vick!
shayiscool117 1 year ago
What's disturbing to me about the whole situation is how relatively few people baying for Michael Vick's blood are calling for the torturers employed by the CIA and the DoD to be similarly tortured as retribution for their torture of human beings. In fact, any time people put animals above humans I find it disturbing.
JBfan88 1 year ago
@JBfan88 Anytime ppl put humans above animals I find it disturbing. They value their lives just as much as humans do. And humans are fuck-ups, look at this planet. Anyways go Vick! You might be a fuck-up but you is one hella qb!
sloanmidwestXTC 1 year ago
@sloanmidwestXTC So killing and eating an animal is as bad as commiting murder and cannabilism. Weird view :/
grandmasterreggae 1 year ago
@grandmasterreggae Are you retarded? Eating animals, yeah well we're omnivores so we do that for survival. Yeah we could go without but it doesnt change shit and meat has lots of nutrients. I didnt say shit about murder (or cannabilism? hahaha). You are just tryin to be witty, in fact you're fucking stupid.
sloanmidwestXTC 1 year ago
@sloanmidwestXTC i second that notion about vick being a hell of a qb, but to say that a dogs life is more valueable ( i know i spelled it wrong) than a humans life is fucking retarded. what has a dog contributed to the progress of mankind? absolutely nothing. what has a human being contributed to the progress of mankind? well, we wouldnt be having this conversation if it wasnt for humans. what im trying to say is that dogs are animals and humans are.... well humans
TheRabbit223 1 year ago
@TheRabbit223 Humans are animals with big brains, who spend much of their time deciding how important they really are. What good have we really done for the world? Plenty for ourselves, and sure the animals we deem important. Other than that?
sloanmidwestXTC 1 year ago
@JBfan88 why would people be calling for the CIA torturers to be tortured when we're talking about Michael Vick? Start up a topic about CIA torturers and then see how many people want them to have their balls electrocuted. I could say that I find it odd that no one here is calling for child molesters to have their balls chomped off by a rabid monkeys, but that would be incredibly off topic, and would make no sense.
katydidanderik 1 year ago
I almost always agree with Penn, but I don't agree that loving an animal takes love away from people 1:30 "I always fee that there's some love that's going to the dog that should go to people". He's making the same mistake many Socialists make, there's only so much (wealth or love) in the bucket. If your slice of the pie is too big, someone else will get a smaller piece. Grow it, multiply it, it's not a zero sum gain. Dogs or animals can bring people closer.
Cidriullo 1 year ago 2
people need to start doin more anamorphizing rather anthropamorphizing anything
FlyingFooBalls 1 year ago
Comparing what Vick did to the dogs to the plight of factory farmed animals is a fallacy. Chickens, cows and pigs nourish humans and therefore we are justified in killing them. Their lives are not wasted for sport but sacrificed for the well-being of another animal—namely us!
80439 1 year ago
@80439 not really. Factory farms are not a necessity and the torture and torment that those animals go through is also not necessary. They are tortured for convenience. I don't see how anyone could justify that sort of treatment of another living creature. And 90% of the product created from that torture is unhealthy garbage. It's not meant for nourishment, it's meant to make money. Bacon is not created for the well-being of anyone except perhaps the doctors prescribing your heart meds.
katydidanderik 1 year ago
@katydidanderik I never said anything about factory farms being a necessity. They are an atrocity. However, the animals are not abused for fun; only for the purpose of making food. Factory farms are obviously not OK but Penn is making an invalid comparison. As for bacon, people have eaten it (or something like it) for 1000s of years. We can handle modest amounts of it. It's fake stuff like hydrogenated oils and processed foods in general that are kill us.
80439 1 year ago
Comment removed
80439 1 year ago
Penn ignores fact that Vick knew what he was doing and knew the potential consequences when he set up his doggie torture operation and he did it anyway. Ripping his face off would be absurd but two years in the joint is the price he paid for his fun. Hanging around with gang members and shooting and electrocuting dogs is mighty fuckin' frowned upon by the law and you'd better believe that they'll make an example of a rich man when they get the chance.
80439 1 year ago
wish i could roomate with this dude..big house and says wtf he wants, thinks, and almost lives! crack and a thought= goes a long way. good job man good job
3dsonnyd 1 year ago
Well this gets to the purpose of legal punishment altogether. Do we lock people up because they're dangerous and the public should be protected from them, do we do it as a deterrent so that the knowledge you'll be punished makes people not want to commit the crime in the first place, or do we do it because of some moral belief that people who do bad things deserve to be punished because it satisfies our sense of justice and makes us feel good?
LanceDirk 1 year ago
@LanceDirk All three are wrong. It shouldn't be punishment anyway. It should be about rehabilitation.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade I wish rehabilitation was as easy as it sounded. Also, I think that the main reason that we punish people is the third reason. It's easy to defeat to arguments against punishment by saying "but how will the families of the victims feel," and it's hard to say that those victims aren't always right just because they were the ones who experienced the crime.
LanceDirk 1 year ago
@LanceDirk That's why the victims should have no say in the sentencing. I agree that the third reason is the main one, but that doesn't make it right. Punishing someone because its cathartic is immoral and not compassionate.
zofspade 1 year ago
@LanceDirk As for the other two reasons:
If we lock them up because they are dangerous, then why are more than half our prisoners non-violent offenders and substance abusers? Who are we protecting here?
If its a deterrent, then explain the high recidivism rate.
All three reasons are wrong, which is why we should get rid of the idea of "punishment". Prison is a relatively new form of punishment, and it doesn't work. Rehabilitation is easy, if we just invested more in it.
zofspade 1 year ago
@zofspade I would have to see a lot evidence that rehabilitation really can work before I can support it, and I feel like some people are mentally ill and beyong rehabilitation. But yes, I think the idea that some people morally deserve to be punished is ridiculous. It's an animal instinct and we're supposed to be better than that.
LanceDirk 1 year ago
Vic, I'm sorry I have no compassion for, a least Baseball had the BALLS to make a statement with Pete Rose (dont know if I agree with it)..Look at the NBA Thugs, thugs and more thugs Fuck Vic and the NFL...besides Hockey doesnt bread a bunch of cry pussy football pre-madonnas....thanks I'll go back to my Scotch now in the end Karma will teach the student
richietcb 1 year ago
@richietcb You have no compassion for Micheal Vick? That makes you worse. The NFL has no place in "punishment". He served his time; what more do you want? If you don't think he was "punished" enough, take it up with the legal system. If you think he received a just sentence (as Penn states, it was excessive), then the NFL shouldn't do anything extra.
zofspade 1 year ago
penn i get what your saying. but 2 years is not going over board. what vick did was wrong. now im not going a peta on you they are just on the other extream. i would not want him to be a part of my teem/ company. and i guess im just one mean nast person. but i think he should be shot for what he did. and penn im sorry to say i lost respect for you today. but your just the type who doesnt give a crap
leathaltoy 1 year ago
this fatso is a fake libertarian. he was ona show defending Obama one time. what a fat slob libtard.
IdiotsForObamaCom 1 year ago
The reason I say this is because Michael had no regrets and he never stopped his cruelty until he got caught and his crime took away his Hundred Million dollar plus endorsments. Saying he's sorry is bullshit. A great expression by the way.
nebogipfel11 1 year ago
I can't wait for the youtube video where Michael Vick is tied to a tree and pitbulls used in dogfights rip his sorry ass apart. I would favorite it.
nebogipfel11 1 year ago
@nebogipfel11 Go fuck your mother!!! you sound like every other waste of life
BigLouie551 1 year ago
@BigLouie551 I understand. I forgive you.
nebogipfel11 1 year ago
Penn brings up a lot of great points. Dog fighting is somewhat different.. Its two dogs fighting one another.. Although i don't agree with it, and i think its disgusting that people find enjoyment in putting two angry dogs in a ring to fight to the death, there are limits. But I absolutely hate people who get enjoyment out of abusing or killing animals for no other reason then to feel powerful, those are the types that end up abusing children, or murder without remorse, and should be punished.
LadyM0rbid 1 year ago
he did his time, hes clearly sorry for it and you can tell by how hes playing football
dont fucking tell me he should be playing like shit ...because what if you did did something horrible and in the end of it all you feel youve shown that your sorry for what you did yet people wont believe you ....
how you would you feel?...exactly...oh and didnt he even make a organization against dog fights?
so there you go
muscleten 1 year ago
One of the few things that I disagree with Penn on.Causing pain to an animal for your enjoyment only, not to mention killing and wasting an animal which could be used for food(just substitute dog for other animal) is a terrible thing to do.I don't see how compassion is even apart of this??? The man needed to be punished for his crime not given compassion!?!?! I love animals but I'm not an "animal lover", I understand pain and suffering is part of life, but for enjoyment against your will? Nope.
fourtywpm 1 year ago
i'm not a big penn and teller fan...but you just won over a fan with that breakdown that reasoning is hard to argue with even though some right wing puritanical hypocrite will. He said it was bit excessive and it was...but i guess dogs are more redeemable than humans too huh!
mrinowat2dowitit 1 year ago
if thats Penn's house behind him, it looks nice :D
piano99999 1 year ago
Comparing Christianity to Animal torture and then giving a speech about compassion...Awesome.
Rensune 1 year ago
@Rensune Uh?
brianpadraic 1 year ago
I get where Penn is coming from on this, in the sense of wanting revenge vs. wanting justice. I don't think he's saying that something shouldn't happen, although he clearly states that he think 2 years is excessive. I disagree on that as we all know, he didn't serve 2 years he served one and is on probation, which, seems good considering he had nothing like this prior ( I'll leave the pot debate for now). What got me was the wanton act of killing something for no reason, which is erehensible.
equalcharliebrown 1 year ago
I agree to disagree on this one, if someone commits a crime they should be detoured in someway from doing it again.
but lets say it was just a fine, and he was ending up making more money from these underground dog fights even if he were paying fines, it would not stop him from doing them. In this case personal time is more of a detour-rent.
FMLLULZ 1 year ago
I'm rarely in disagreement with Penn, but I think he missed the mark on this one. Everyone who wants punishment and accountability don't necessarily claim to be overly compassionate and those are not incompatible themes anyway.
crhood2166 1 year ago
VICK ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
austinmvpmata5 1 year ago
the hypocrisy of a nation that sold people into slavery would even think to talk about micheal vick... the anger amazes me, why is it when black people do wrong things...the outrage. but the church have sex with kids...there are no words? the church is still up an running...
bladekutt 1 year ago
when i listen to a lot of penn's monologues/discussions/beliefs, i'm really happy that teller never talks about all this shit in the same way penn does. it's cool that penn thinks what he thinks, but just as he says he 'boycotts' musicians who he later learns are christian, there are a lot of things he says that actively reduce my enjoyment of him as a performer. i respect his right to speak out about what he believes, it just makes it tough for me to appreciate him.
glassineheart 1 year ago
2 years was a light sentence.
Michael Vick has NOT yet payed back his debt to society or God.
mozartisnotdead 1 year ago
@mozartisnotdead
have people paid back for slavery
bladekutt 1 year ago
@bladekutt
All the ones who had slaves? Yeah, they did. How about you?
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
@cyberianfirst
i did get my cut...no white people went to jail for slavery... as i recall there ass got paid for their lost.... know your history... mick vick is a saint as it relates to the history of america.... where the hell is the shame in that....to enlsave human beings
bladekutt 1 year ago
@bladekutt what the hell does that mean?
@cyberianfirst i like your style, but the real challenge is getting through to the meatheads on the more popular vick videos.
mozartisnotdead 1 year ago
@mozartisnotdead
My post to bladekutt took longer than 2.3 seconds to read, so it exceeded his attention span...thus his nonsensical reply...
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
dog fighting is the best. lesser animals are lesser, duh!
Medusa6963 1 year ago
@Medusa6963 lol and get this...dog fighting is animal torture, but do people know what animals go thru so we can wear fur? Doubt it.
kmcl11 1 year ago
Michael Vick Sucks ass it should've been the electric chair. I have nothing more to say than this, Michael Vick is a fucking ass.
Infinitegore 1 year ago
@Infinitegore No he's not. Its all sport. Besides I haev a question. ARe you for the life of the many unborn babies who get slaughtered every year at PP? Trust me that is much more gruesome that some silly dog fight.
kmcl11 1 year ago
@kmcl11
Not to the dogs, it isn't. And if you don't see that, then you're the ass.
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
He's got a good point when he says sentancing from hate and revenge is wrong. This happens too often. HOWEVER he's not seeing the point if he doesn't like dogs and feels uncomfortable around them, it sounds like he thinks because they are mean pitbulls we shouldn't care about animal cruelty. The sport of dogfighting is creating mean pitbulls,
I think the REAL crime here is Penn taking 9 minutes to express a point that should have taken 1 minute. Stop rambling!
batvette 1 year ago
I agree with writergarret. Penn has kids. I personally don't care for them. If this case had been about kids would his view have been the same? Vick wasn't some poor slob with no income trying to use dog fighting to earn cash to save his dying child. Vick was some rich asshole who had no feelings and though it would be fun to make some extra $ torturing animals. He deserved 10 years, at least. Would I feel differently if it were about kids? NO! I'd still hate Vick if he were that slob
jemjean 1 year ago 2
@jemjean If you are saying what happens to an animal is morally equal to what happens to a human being, then I disagree. Domesticated or not, the point is human life is more important than animal life.
cigar420 1 year ago
@cigar420 This point of view is why our world is the mess it is. Someone once said, "If you want a friend, get a dog." He was right. Animals have every right to exist and to be treated with the reverence and respect we give to any creature we pop out into this world. It's pure arrogance to assume that a human life means more than an animal life. Every day we learn so much from animals. They love us when our own won't. They give more than they take and they deserve love and protection.
jemjean 1 year ago
@cigar420 Then try this one on for size. A human being with the capacity to treat a dog like that has a much higher potential to be able to treat another human being like that.
And, since you're obviously a moron, with NO clue about morals, I hope your God sees fit to make the rest of your life the equivalent of a dog's. Of course, I'm wishing this on you out of 'compassion', so that you might gain a better understanding and concern for ALL of God's creatures.
cyberianfirst 1 year ago 2
@cyberianfirst Shut up.
cigar420 1 year ago
@cigar420 Suck me
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
Murdering and abusing lower sentient Animals like this is a sign of sociopathy. But I agree, no need to hate him, but hate the lack of proper law making in regards to the penile system. Parliamentary branches regulate this. Not Vick, or Lawyers. I hate plea Bargains. DMX go to jail when they found the dogs in his back yard? It is possible Vick has other violent acts against human beings he was not caught doing, it's the sort of pathology of a creature like this.
dubya3cdotcom 1 year ago
Penn, fighting for common sense no matter how unpopular it is.
chriscancer13 1 year ago
@chriscancer13 Blindly faithful fanbois like you make me sick.
Penn would shit on you for being such a mindless wanker.
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
I'm not trying to argue that dogs are as valuable as humans when it comes to performing tasks that humans value (like curing cancer or doing algebra). I'm just saying this all very relative. So we can cure diseases, but that doesn't give us any inherent value in terms of the universe. It's just silly to say that human beings (as a species) are special because we're not. We're just primates that are fortunate enough to have evolved a high level of intelligence.
doombuggy123 1 year ago
@doombuggy123 What you're saying is totally understandable, but I think one thing that people need to do more often is admit their biases
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Many people care more about people than about animals
Many people would get more satisfaction from revenge
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Whether their personal investment warrants such punishment (in vengeance) is a completely different argument
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The point is someone has to accept and acknowledge they're not being compassionate, and shouldn't act like they are acting out of compassion
MaxAC40 1 year ago
@MaxAC40 No, it's not compassionate, but I don't understand how two years is excessive. Giving a life sentence isn't very compassionate either, so what should we do? If the only purpose in incarcerating people is to deter them from committing the same crime, how much time does a murder really deserve? What about a psychopathic serial killer who will almost inevitably commit the same crime if they are released?
doombuggy123 1 year ago
Comment removed
MaxAC40 1 year ago
@doombuggy123 I didn't say whether it's excessive or not
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I'm pointing out that sentences aren't necessarily given out of compassion, and that compassion isn't necessarily the driving force behind justice
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Penn thinks the sentence is excessive, but that's only if you're considering compassion to be the measure of the punishment. It's different if you see justice from the perspective of retribution.
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I'm not sure if I'm clear, but it's only excessive from a compassionate perspective.
MaxAC40 1 year ago
@MaxAC40 I understand that, but what's the alternative? Giving compassionate sentences that would amount to only a couple years or months for murders, rapists and pedophiles? Is that enough to deter them from future crimes?
doombuggy123 1 year ago
MaxAC40 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
This is off-the-cuff but: a justice system of compassion implies choice for the offender (Is it worth it)
An alternative is fear of retaliation
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Criminals weigh the costs, and act anyway. If costs are too high, they won't. A break-in is worth it, unless the victim can use lethal force
fear of unknown is why guns often=less crime
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If I have a spoon and say I'll torture you with this, your imagination will be more terrifying than any reality. Your cost becomes unrealistically high. deterrence
MaxAC40 1 year ago
@MaxAC40
The point Penn gets wrong is that punishing Vick IS being compassionate.
It's being compassionate for the poor dumb animals this fucking neanderthal (Vick) tortured to death. He doesn't deserve the compassion, they do.
But Penn, as he mentioned in the beginning, has a 'dog problem', and it's skewed his entire reasoning process on this issue.
He would have done better on this one to just sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up for once.
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
@cyberianfirst well I don't believe in an eye for an eye. I believe in two eyes for an eye. I'm with you on this.
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On his 'dog problem': he's put this same argument up for a lot of issues. Anything where people want to see harm inflicted on a person, he's said this. And its his "show" so its his job to be a wack-job and put his thoughts out on issues.
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I think he gets caught up with what's "ideal" and how things are. If we were all compassionate, vick wouldn't have done it in the first place.
MaxAC40 1 year ago
You have a very poor understanding of animal and human behavior. You can't separate humans from animals because we are animals, we are apes and we have and use instincts. Animal intelligence happens on a sliding scale, humans happen to be very intelligent so they are on one extreme of that scale, but that doesn't put them on entirely different field of existence. Dogs can count, albeit small numbers, but they have a concept of quantity and a very good understanding of time.
doombuggy123 1 year ago
@doombuggy123
Maybe Penn would pull his head out of his ass on this one if he went onto the battlefield over in Afghanistan and watched some of the K-9 unit in action...especially if he watched the interaction between the dogs, their handlers, and their units.
Maybe then he'd get just a glint of understanding at the moral outrage that people feel upon discovering that a wasted bag of shit like Vick was subjecting these creatures to torture and horrendous deaths "for fun".
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
You don't believe people should be punished after committing a crime? So where do you stand on punishing people who commit violent acts on human beings? Is a life sentence excessive? If you're only trying to deter someone from murdering again, is two years excessive? I find it hard to believe that this is a form of logic you would consistently follow.
doombuggy123 1 year ago
Michael Vick killed DOGS, not humans, DOGS!!! Stop comparing a human life to an animal life. Most of you who are mad at Vick EAT MEAT! so you think that torturing them is bad, but killing them is perfectly ok? Bunch of hypocrites. What purpose does a dog's life have? absolutely none. The only reason why they come back to you is because you feed and pet them. You are their bitch. here' a simple equation that we should go by (humans > animals). Not the other way around.
Sueds90 1 year ago
@Sueds90 What purpose does a human life have? None. We're all just matter and energy floating about the universe waiting to regroup in another form.
doombuggy123 1 year ago
@doombuggy123 To make a difference in society. We actually have the power to think and plan things. We have the power to invent and develop useful ideas and products. Human life has more purpose than other animals.
Sueds90 1 year ago
@Sueds90 For the sake of argument let's just ignore the role that other species play in their own societies is no different than the role humans play in a human society, and that other species do have intellectual capabilities that most people greatly underestimate.
Human value is determined by other humans, not by some divine universal concept - it's not inherent. We will be irrelevant when our species is extinct. In fact, we're irrelevant now. We make no significant impact on the universe.
doombuggy123 1 year ago
@doombuggy123 Most, if not all animals live off of instinct, and they can't think of things logically. They can't count, they can't plan what they are doing next tuesday, they can't understand easy concepts, and they have small, and almost useless language. I get what you are saying. But comparing a human that could create a cure for something to a dog that will eat grass and shit the rest of his life without having any responsibilities is absurd.
Sueds90 1 year ago
@Sueds90 I'm just going to chime in that you should check out the penn says on pain. seems like some food for thought
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watch?v=u7E0Xr0_exA
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I haven't read your discussion so I can't really comment, but I would say (in response to penn on pain) that animals can remember and recognize pain because that's often how they're trained
MaxAC40 1 year ago
@MaxAC40 It's not even how they're trained, speaking in terms of evolution it just makes sense for an animal to be able to anticipate and remember pain so they can hopefully prevent or avoid a painful situation in the future, better chance of survival that way. A species that can't anticipate pain, suffering and eventually death is not going to last very long.
doombuggy123 1 year ago
@doombuggy123 of course, I'm just speaking in response to actual treatment- giving an example of them having a learned interaction with humans
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you're completely right, that's a more logical explanation, I just figured training was a pertinent example to treatment specifically.
MaxAC40 1 year ago
@MaxAC40 and your point? insects respond to pain. plants respond to pain. but you wouldn't think twice about killing them.
Sueds90 1 year ago
@Sueds90
You respond to pain. I highly doubt many would think twice about stepping on you, like any other bug.
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
@Sueds90 I've read the posts of an awful lot of bottom-feeders over the years, but you're at the very bottom of the toilet bowl.
What's the purpose of Life, dirtbag? I don't mean YOUR worthless life, I mean ANY life...
To perpetuate itself. You think you're all that, but all you are is a chemical cocktail of DNA looking to keep itself going, procreating as instinctually as the lowest vermin. You rut and go 'in heat' like any other bitch, of any species. Everything else is illusory.
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
@Sueds90
Hey asshole! How about we torture YOU first, THEN kill you, and you let us know if there was a difference, OK shithead?
Rescue dogs give their lives trying to save people. Family pets die protecting their human families, and military dogs are given full hero's burials by the soldiers they serve with.
That makes them higher on the evolutionary ladder than putrid pieces of shit like you, in my book.
BTW, was Vick eating his kill?
And tell us, what purpose does YOUR life have? None.
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
I absolutely wanted to rip MV's face off. It is an emotionally charged issue, and I don't think we have any more control of what we want than what we believe. But I don't think I was uncompassionate. We may not always be able to control feelings but compassion comes from how we act on them. But two years doesn't seem unreasonable to me. He knew the risks and he got caught. Plus it brought the issue into the limelight and hopefully more is being done against this abhorrent practice.
HectorVictorious1 1 year ago
I almost always agree with Penn, but apparently not when it comes to animals. In BS he said something along the lines of murdering all chimpanzees in the world to save the life of one AIDS ridden individual. I just can't see why a human life is worth so much infinitely more than an animal's. And no, I am not a wacko PETA member or vegetarian or anything. I just think that humane treatment should be given to all animals with the brain power to appreciate it.
HectorVictorious1 1 year ago
@HectorVictorious1
No, and that's the same error Penn makes.
Humane treatment should be given BY all animals with the brain power to appreciate it.
That's where his logic failed.
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
how come when you people go into a restaurant and eat something that was killed, you dont talk about that. or when species become extinct because you took over their environment to build wal marts? i am no fucking tree hugger but it sounds like hypocrisy to me. talking shit about someone doing something to animals when you turn around and do it.
MVP15420 1 year ago
@MVP15420
The fact that they are eating it makes ALL the difference in the world.
Only an imbecile could fail to see the difference between that, and torturing for sport.
cyberianfirst 1 year ago
In your opinion what do you think would have served justice in this case.
I know your not an authority, but everybody has an opinion.
baller1661 1 year ago
Reading a book about Miles Davis during the superbowl? How alt.
sateliteoflove202 1 year ago
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
KittycatWrangler 1 year ago
Hi Penn fans. Penn Says videos have been discontinued, so you won't be seeing any new content on here. You can check out our Profile on our Channel Page for more info. We'll still be checking in, so hope to keep chatting with you all! Thanks!
pennsays 1 year ago