With a huge ship like Titanic, those huge pieces of machinery can almost become uncontrolable if you get it going too fast. If Bruce Ismay would have kept his mouth shut, and left Captain Smith alone, the ship proably would have made it. Trying to turn those big things is really hell! First you have to get the animal to slow down, and then you can make your turn.
Bruce Ismay did one thing that was good. He did help passengers into the lifeboats. Somehow according to another movie, Bruce was expected to go down with the ship. But if he wanted to save himself, he should have waited untll there were almost no lifeboats left. The officers were just as bad because once the lifeboats left the ship, they acted if they were their very own lifeboats. But I love James Cameron. His movie was REALLY stuck with the ship!
@jackthayer You're right. He ordered the captain to increase the ship's speed and lied about it. In those days, that ship was a monster. Crusing thru the water at 25 miles an hour, it takes quite a bit of time to get it to slow down to make the turn. One thing you don't ever do in a situation like that. You don't ever reverse your engines to make a turn. You droip your speed as much as you can and make your turn.
Really don't get what all the hate for Cameron is about. I mean damn, the man gave us a great movie in Titanic & he clearly has a passion for Titanic & it's history. I find his enthusiasm charming. So what if he gets 'giddy' about it. At least he has interests other than Youtube & Cheeto's.
What the hell are they saying that the Duff-Gordons' "donated" five bucks to each of the crew men in the boat to get their lives together afterward?! That such bullshit and a distortion of history! They PAID those crewman not to row back to the dying people in the water because they were afraid that they would get caught up in all the dire need of the survival of the people in the water! Don't try to white wash history!
@MishkaSky They did recover at least one telegraph and one lifeboat davit. Some of the items that were brought up from the ship and on a world tour, visiting museums all over the world.
I was there when the Titanic sank & saw our Bruce tucking in to a bag of Malteasers on the Boat Deck. He was throwing them up in the air, one by one & then catching them in his mouth. Very clever! Kind regards :)
I think I'm the only one who really likes Cameron lol I'd rather him be doing the expedition that's going on right now than the people who are actually doing it.
I read their is no proof Mr. Ismay had a converstation with Captain Smith to speed up the ship. Also, no one thought to put 5 iceberg warnings together which would have indicated an iceberg ahead. They relide too much on technology
@davinp actually a first classs passener called Elizabeth Linuus testafied at the inquiry that she overheard Ismay telling Smith to speed up the ship in order to break the record set by the Olympic- its possible she wasn't telling the truth- but its unlikly
You blame Ismay for getting in a lifeboat he was literaly allowed to he was not some villian it makes him sound like he should an evil man in scooby doo Ismay was at collpasible C after women and children were in Ismay went dow to A-deck to help more but when he went down the officer saw four open spaces and let some men in as the boat was lowered to A-deck Ismay went in with a another man C held 31 women and children 6 men and 6 crew a total of 43 people when it could carry 47
OMG, cant this jackass shut the hell up just for ten seconds. Blablablabla, must be an absolute nightmare to be in the sub with James Cameron. He never ever shuts up. Just waiting for James to suddenly scream...I´M THE FUCKING KING OF THE WORLD.
@Sooksawaspakdee961 Actually I got a real stopwatch just to see how much time Cameron cannot talk his longest is 12.3 seconds! But still is this suppose to be fun for him like he is in a candy store people die here some trapped in gates and corridors as you pass by them
@1Historygenius Really, a whole 12.3 sec before start talking again. I hope Cameron keeps he´s promise and never return to Titanic again. He´s so full of shit and himself and he just love to hear he´s own voice. I bet he would have done exactly the same thing like Ismay, shouting am the king of the world and pushed everyone aside so he could have the whole lifeboat for himself.
@Sooksawaspakdee961 Sorry wait I made a mistake I over saw the last mysteries of Titanic again on youtube and instead Cameron went a whole 8.4 second before starting to talk sorry for the mistake.
@Sooksawaspakdee961 I must diagree with you about Ismay I think he had the right so survive like all men. Near collapsible C Ismay helped women and children in the boat but when there were no more standing there he went down to A-deck to find more Purser Mcelroy thinking Ismaw was in charge now with his leaving put him in charge he saw some spots left 4 to be exact and allowed 4 men in as the boat was lowered Ismay and another man crawled in C left with 43 out of 47 seats filled i is ok for him
I mean hell mwmzms, I could tear you a new asshole if I wanted to on the history of the Titanic. Just me playing around having a good time already ruffled you up enough that you didnt reply for a few days. Hell you cant even look up the names of the people I stated as an example that stated Titanic broke on the surface which you keep saying are liars and lightoller wasnt a liar. Really he said Titanic didnt break in half the wreck says he is a liar.
Fortunately these curses similarly to your futile chatting and repeating the same over and over, aren't doing the impression on me. Here I'm ending discussion with you, because I (like everyone) do not discuss with people of the third category, which are using the sense of the internet anonymity to offend others.
@mwmzms, Really? you went to all this trouble just to post that you are done responding to me? How nice of you, first you post multiple reply messages to me that spam up my inbox and now all of a sudden you are stopping because you do not discuss with people like me? Funny how you are slinging insults left and right and even making "racist" remarks like that. I take it you were dropped on your head as a child.
With all the time you spend posting on here multiple posts pointing out how passengers could have lied on the stand but yet you dont stop to think maybe lightoller lied. After all he had more at stake and a bigger reason to lie since he was employed by the WSL and putting the blaim on the company would sure enough get his ass fired. Like wise acting like lightoller was a great man just because he used his own private yatch to help those escaping dunkirk doesnt mean he didnt lie himself.
You are beliving a officer who was just washed out of the way by the falling #1 funnel AT THE BOW that said the Titanic didnt break up when numerous passengers including Goldsmiths mother who let go of her son when Titanic leveled off AFTER SHE BROKE UP ON THE SURFACE and he saw the final sinking has stated from the start she broke up which has been verified.I mean how about you get off your fucking lazy ass and do the research yourself for a change.
mwmzms, I just have to say this how can you breathe on your own? Your comments are so fucking retarded I dont see how you can even breathe without help.
@Milner62 it's you still repeating blindly, trite opinions from films etc. it is you consider yourself infallible, not me. I'am only trying to understand everyone and not to divide people into cowards and not-cowards, while I don't have an incontrovertible evidence. Oh- and at least, I'm not offending you, but you think, that knowing nothing about me give you the right to offend me?It is attesting to your level.
@mwmzms, really how about you show me where I am stating things from the movie as fact. Last time I checked I have always poked holes in the errors in the movie. You are nothing but a troll that cant troll me like you want so you resort to childish insults because you dont have the brain to comprehend. Just like how you are too stupid to understand that Lightoller being a employee of the WSL has more reason to lie under oath than the passengers who had just survived a sinking.
"I don't see a brass bed, I think she visited somebody in a room with a brass bed." loll wtf. So if he DID end up finding a room with a brass bed, would he then have said, "Oh here, this is the place where Molly remembers to have once visited."? If there WAS one, the fact that she remembers a brass bed in her room would be true. And just because you weren't able to find a brass bed, doesn't mean that it was never there, dumbass! D:<
@CameronDubzWTF, yep they would get in a lifeboat with others around and then proceed to lie saying there was no one around even though two passengers were shot infront of him basically and an un identified officer blew his brains out on the bridge.
@Milner62 exacly, it's ridiculous, and as I said in comment above, after disaster he was just a scapegoat, there is no evidence that he was guilty of anything, people are just ignoramuses...and it's sad.
@mwmzms, well there is evidence that Ismay did lie. He stated that there was no one around the lifeboat and he stepped in. The truth is there were surviving passengers around this area of the boat deck that states the deck was crowded and that atleast two passengers were shot by crew and an officer comitted suscide. Due to the low light condition on the decks of Titanic there was never a possible ID but it could only be 1 of 2 people. The Cheif Officer or the 1st officer.
@Milner62 " well there is evidence(...) surviving passengers that states..." and you call THIS an evidence?!! Maybe you should read a little bit more about Titanic, cause clearly you think about yourself as an expert, but on the websites (official titanic club) it's written that these statements were prised off by the court.
@mwmzms Yes, Ismay did safe himself, perhaps it isn't an honourable behaviour, when around women and children are drowning, but first of all- we don't know and we will never know real circumstances in which he took this decision, second- he wasn't guilty of sinking of the ship, the entire sequence of human errors made it up. Capitan Smith also didn't have the right to ignore the threat of an icebergs and to swim so quickly,
@mwmzms yeah but nobody is accusing him because then again '' some witnesses '' could see how he caught the baby of the water, besides he went down, so he became a hero. thinking in this way one we are swearing, and second we are praising to the skies, why ? Because '' somebody, something, could see ". While the truth is, that from the second Titanic hit, nothing it's clear enough to judge those people and divide into heroes and cowards.
@mwmzms Cameron did that, cause he is an artist, movie director and he must tell good story, but it isn't giving him the right to manipulate facts and actually we know that officer who comitted suicide wasn't 1st officer Murdoch, for 99,999% it was Chief Officer Lieutenant Henry Tingle Wilde.
@mwmzms Proof, where is your evidence that it is 99.999% henry Wilde that blew his brains out? To date there is zero evidence of which officer did that, all witnesses that saw it could NOT MAKE AN POISTIVE ID. Odds are being an officer it had to be between Murdoch or Wilde because they were the only two officers at the time that was near the bridge that didnt survive.
@Milner62 as I said like 10000 times, in the case of the titanic we will never have incontrovertible evidences, but on the 99% it wasn't Murdoch, and I am only reminding that yours arguments are the same: "somebody said, somebody could see"... Therefore this discussion doesn't make sense, I already said that. Only at least I know it and I am saying that we should not divide these people into cowards, because "we know about them everything", but you yes, so there is a difference between us.
@mwmzms who caught a baby? are you talking about that myth that Captain smith swam up to the collaspable lifeboat that was overturned and handed off a baby before returning to the ship?
If so that myth has been disproven from the start because there was never a baby on any of those collaspable boats not even the over turned one.
@Milner62 If you want to discuss with me, first learn to read... This is what I wrote : " Capitan Smith also didn't have the right to ignore the threat of an icebergs and to swim so quickly,yeah but nobody is accusing him because then again '' some witnesses '' could see how he caught the baby of the water, besides he went down, so he became a hero." So, I meant it was stupid, I wrote "some witnesses"- it was irony, I know that this is a myth, and I wrote this
@mwmzms specially in order to demonstrate using this argument in discussion is stupid- "because witnesses said before the court", since you know it why words of "witnesses" on Ismay case are supposed to be indisputable ? It is also a myth, nowhere proven these are a former truth, but you are non-stop repeating these nonsenses... and I hope that you already know why sometimes we put the words in quotation marks .
@mwmzms Really? how about you do alittle more reading about Titanic because the same courts also threw out passengers stating that Titanic broke apart and they took the word of Lightoller who was in no position to see nor witness a break up.
So how is your claim that they threw out that bit of testimony when they threw out other bits of testimony which has since been proven correct.
@Milner62 bla, bla, bla- again the same arguments. "passengers stating". And why are they more credible than Lightoller? So far nowhere is proved at all that Tiatnic had broken down ABOVE the surface. And from where do you know, that Lightoller wasn't in the position in order to see it? Were you there with him? I believe him, because then, f. ex. during the world war II he turned out to be a man of honour, was honest. And passengers which you are talking? Whom were they?
You can see for yourself, that it is more an issue what the man believes in, rather than of evidence, so let us finish this discussion, because it doesn't make sense. I only remind you that I was talking about Ismay, and yes, he was a victim of furious crowd, it is also a matter of the ordinary psychological- wisdom: when something is going badly then a government is guilty, king, company, - and Ismay was from the White Star management board and survived. it 's his only fault.
I mean he even hired historians for his movie and he still had errors in his movie that should have been avoidable. One major one was he had Murdoch on watch when leaving ireland when he was offduty. Second was he never had lightoller give the order to open the forward port E and D deck gangway doors which tripled the hull opening form 12sq ft to 36 sq ft but yet he had in the theater version the A-deck promenade deck windows being rolled down
But wow it is nice when you disagree with what someone says you instantly get negative review on it but yet I bet those that did that couldnt even debate why I am wrong so just simply thumb me down and hope people dont listen.Doesnt matter to me people can keep these false statements and myths going on and on and on wont bother me.I actually seen the D-deck gangway door that was recovered that was claimed to got flung open on collision with the sea floor,funny when latches were retracted
@Milner62: You are not alone. I have noticed many errors he has said. I also like how HE thinks that HE knows more about things on Titanic then the actual survivors (e.g.: saying Molly Brown must have THOUGHT she slept in a brass bed but visited someone w/ one) who were there. He is very 'ate up with it" and so full of himself I could vomit. The documentary is good picture/film wise, I must say that. I wish I didn't have to hear his ignorant mouth.
@Chrliesangelsman I fully agree, its nice to see others see that as well. I like Cameron, he has done alot for Titanic and us researchers but with him throwing out wild crazy statements like that does nothing but hurt research because you then got people watching this taking it as the truth and then they want to argue and say your wrong.
Miner62: Good point. But my biggest problem w/ him is the LACK OF RESPECT with the statements he is making. His attitude is WAY out of line with what you would expect of someone with class.
(cont'd) He acts all excited and happy, like a 6 yr old kid who got a candy bar from the supermarket, instead of remembering there are family mbrs STILL out there who LOST loved ones on Titanic, and while I don't expect him to CRY, I do think his statements (e.g.: "toilet bowl of the gods") and blatent disregard for the fact that Titanic is a GRAVE, is repulsive. He thinks he is so rich that he doesn't care WHO he offends.
(cont'd 2) he needs to lay off the coca-cola and then he may realize he is NOT 'king of the world.' When he gets his head out of la la land one day, he may be quite embarrassed. I respect Robert Ballard who was understandably excited about finding Titanic, and had uncontrolled emotions during filming, then IMMEDIATELY said his attitude changed b/c he realized he had come in on a grave. That was on the 1st National Geo. documentary.
@Chrliesangelsman yep but I have an issue with Ballard though cause hes like a whiney kid. He could have protected the wreck but he would have had to retreive artifacts to become the owner of the site basically. He didnt so the "french" did and things got plucked off the ship and he wants to call people out bout how its wrong.Really I think its nice to preserve these artifacts for a future generation to see. But I did like Ballard at one time though just over time I cant stand him anymore.
@Milner62: I have my own theory, which could be total crap, b/c it is just MY thoughts, but I can't help but thinking that the Titainic is deteriorating (spelled wrong I know) faster b/c of all the currents caused by mini-subs, lights, micro-oragnsims transfered into that area that are foreign. I have my issues w/ Robert Ballard too, but my feelings aren't near as strong as they are against James C.'s arrogant attitude & lack of respect.
@Chrliesangelsman, the theory I belive on that is the excessive fishing being done in the north atlantic is causing more silt to make its way to the depth of the Titanic instead of being eatten by the fish. That might not be correct but in any case that sounds plausable. In the end we always knew Titanic would start rotting away more and more quickly as time goes on.
@Milner62: my favorite historians about Titanic are Ken Marschell ( probably spelled wrong) and Don Lynch (probably spelled wrong too). James Eaton & Charles Haas were good too, but haven't heard much about them lately.
@Chrliesangelsman I agree on them. I even talked with Ken alittle bit on the Titanic forums I am on. He doesnt show his face on there much but he does from time to time.
@Chrliesangelsman those kind of comments dont bother me much,but I think that is mostly cause my connection with Titanic is more on a mechanical historical position.Some people reseach the people that was on Titanic.I am more into the mechanical layout of the ship how she was built and how she sank.He wanted to get into the boiler room to check out the coal bunker bulkhead.I started thinking why didnt he try going down one of the ventilation shafts that goes into that boiler room.
@Milner62: what do you think about that "new" theory that the Titanic broke from the bottom up? That she broke at a 15 degree angle rather than a higher angle? I was watching that the other day on TV. They say that they found parts of her double bottom and descibed the damage as "ribbons of steel." Any thoughts on that Miner? I'd like to know your opinion. I don't know what to think.
@Chrliesangelsman, bottom up break is a bunch of bs in my book. The stern was being pulled down by gravity as the bow was pulling down due to gravity and the loss of bouyancy. Hence the mid section of the ship became a seesaw and the ocean the fulcrum. Resulted in a top down break. Now the 15* angle I belive that, video I have with lecture slides I created I got the angle no higher than 18* and that was to get the crowsnest level with ocean when the bridge was underwater
@Chrliesangelsman Correct. Its not smart to deem someone that has long since passed away as being wrong on what they said. I mean I thought he knew that there are no exsisting blueprints of Titanic that shows all the last minute changes made. He doesnt even know what room number she was in but yet say she was wrong. Just like saying that Gracie jumped up at the firstclass entrance when in his book he stated he did that at the gym further aft alongside the #2 funnel.
Wrong Jim, I read Gracies book and he said he jumped up and grabbed the railing before the wave reached him and the wave helped him to reach the railing alongside #2 funnel at the Gym. What your showing is not the gym. The windows are not correct and the 2002-2003 photo I have of the gym shows pretty much nothing left.
@Milner62 i'm pretty sure the world renown Titanic reseracher would know what he's talking about actually. and even if he doesn't just enjoy the pictures and the video that is giving us a passage into what it was like.
Just because your a "world renown" Titanic research doesnt mean that you are right. Does that little piece of paper that says I am a certified automotive technican means I am good or right? Nope it doesnt it just means I know how to take tests. Same with this what is his source for what he said because Gracie in his own book written in 1912 before his death stated he was jumping up at the railing above the Gym at the base of #2 funnel.
Way to make an assumption. You got just one person overhearing a conversation between Captain Smith and Ismay in the reception room and instantly everyone wants to tout ismay urging smith to speed up to arrive early as fact. Please Titanic was going slower than her normal service speed and the first class passenger overhearing what was said could have EASILY taken what was said out of context.
"Humble to the power of nature"? What happened to humbling yourself to God. There was no "nature" at work, so to speak that helped to sink Titanic. Its mostly due to people's errors and they're poor choices.
I agree with you, but i wouldnt put down to error so much as utter human arrogance, but ur right not really a power of nature, but definitly human arrogance, overconfidence
@cocoacute: I think it sounds stupid, and is very disrespectful to the many family mbrs who lost loved ones on the Titanic. Jim Cameron is very full of himself.
I *hate* it when morons get to make documentaries.
"Some people were heroes, others were villains", etcetera.
There were no heroes and no villains on the Titanic. They were all human fucking beings, and they all did what you or I would do. How the hell can anyone say "Well *I* wouldn't have got in the boat", if you've never been on a sinking ship with not enough boats!!!!!
@ashtonrebecca and how you know this? Ismay became a scapegoat because he '' survived ''. I read a lot about Titanic and everywhere is written, that after the disaster, on the famous process, everyone '' witnesses " talked how Ismay was a coward, guilty etc., while later it turned out that they hadn't had evidence to it.
@mwmzms They invented it, because he was only from decision-makers ( I mean White Star Line) which survived, and they were a miserable crowd. As much as I understand their emotions, I cannot so easily justify such behaviour. I am also a woman, but I think, that principle "women and children first" isn't so clever at all. Is the life of men less worth? No!
@mwmzms And the truth is that, where Ismay stood, by the boat, just in that moment, it was nobody more, and there were places still. Whether not better one living more came off to rescue? It is hacking me off, that you are such ignoramuses! What will Hoolywood hand to you on so , you are taking at face value! Cameron did exactly what his predecessors in films about Titanic- Bruce Ismay had to be a villain, because it held on to the dramatic plot;
@mwmzms as a matter of fact Cameron manipulated much more information- like about the Murdoch, which TOOK NO MONEY AT ALL and DIDNT KILL HIMSELF! Its offending the memory of people which simply stood up in the face of the inconceivable tragedy. And what's more : long-lasting offending, because instilled for million of ignoramuses.
You fucking haters, James camern never took anything from down there
ReptigloRand 2 months ago
With a huge ship like Titanic, those huge pieces of machinery can almost become uncontrolable if you get it going too fast. If Bruce Ismay would have kept his mouth shut, and left Captain Smith alone, the ship proably would have made it. Trying to turn those big things is really hell! First you have to get the animal to slow down, and then you can make your turn.
Streetcar1743 5 months ago in playlist Titanic (James Cameron tour)
Bruce Ismay did one thing that was good. He did help passengers into the lifeboats. Somehow according to another movie, Bruce was expected to go down with the ship. But if he wanted to save himself, he should have waited untll there were almost no lifeboats left. The officers were just as bad because once the lifeboats left the ship, they acted if they were their very own lifeboats. But I love James Cameron. His movie was REALLY stuck with the ship!
Streetcar1743 11 months ago
@Streetcar1743 he shouldn't of saved himself any ways it was his fault the ship sank
jackthayer 10 months ago
@jackthayer You're right. He ordered the captain to increase the ship's speed and lied about it. In those days, that ship was a monster. Crusing thru the water at 25 miles an hour, it takes quite a bit of time to get it to slow down to make the turn. One thing you don't ever do in a situation like that. You don't ever reverse your engines to make a turn. You droip your speed as much as you can and make your turn.
Streetcar1743 10 months ago
Really don't get what all the hate for Cameron is about. I mean damn, the man gave us a great movie in Titanic & he clearly has a passion for Titanic & it's history. I find his enthusiasm charming. So what if he gets 'giddy' about it. At least he has interests other than Youtube & Cheeto's.
jlalewicz 11 months ago
What the hell are they saying that the Duff-Gordons' "donated" five bucks to each of the crew men in the boat to get their lives together afterward?! That such bullshit and a distortion of history! They PAID those crewman not to row back to the dying people in the water because they were afraid that they would get caught up in all the dire need of the survival of the people in the water! Don't try to white wash history!
FamilyGuy770 1 year ago
Did they ever try to recover the ship or parts of the ship?
brunswick26 1 year ago
@brunswick26 No, because if they do that, it will just fall apart !
MishkaSky 1 year ago
@MishkaSky They did recover at least one telegraph and one lifeboat davit. Some of the items that were brought up from the ship and on a world tour, visiting museums all over the world.
Streetcar1743 11 months ago
I was there when the Titanic sank & saw our Bruce tucking in to a bag of Malteasers on the Boat Deck. He was throwing them up in the air, one by one & then catching them in his mouth. Very clever! Kind regards :)
skystreak19 1 year ago 2
I think I'm the only one who really likes Cameron lol I'd rather him be doing the expedition that's going on right now than the people who are actually doing it.
samsdancingtown 1 year ago
I read their is no proof Mr. Ismay had a converstation with Captain Smith to speed up the ship. Also, no one thought to put 5 iceberg warnings together which would have indicated an iceberg ahead. They relide too much on technology
davinp 1 year ago
@davinp actually a first classs passener called Elizabeth Linuus testafied at the inquiry that she overheard Ismay telling Smith to speed up the ship in order to break the record set by the Olympic- its possible she wasn't telling the truth- but its unlikly
dancingnancy09 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@dancingnancy09 I didn't know that. Either way we have no physical evidence, just eyewitness testmony.
davinp 1 year ago
You blame Ismay for getting in a lifeboat he was literaly allowed to he was not some villian it makes him sound like he should an evil man in scooby doo Ismay was at collpasible C after women and children were in Ismay went dow to A-deck to help more but when he went down the officer saw four open spaces and let some men in as the boat was lowered to A-deck Ismay went in with a another man C held 31 women and children 6 men and 6 crew a total of 43 people when it could carry 47
1Historygenius 1 year ago
OMG, cant this jackass shut the hell up just for ten seconds. Blablablabla, must be an absolute nightmare to be in the sub with James Cameron. He never ever shuts up. Just waiting for James to suddenly scream...I´M THE FUCKING KING OF THE WORLD.
Sooksawaspakdee961 1 year ago
@Sooksawaspakdee961 Actually I got a real stopwatch just to see how much time Cameron cannot talk his longest is 12.3 seconds! But still is this suppose to be fun for him like he is in a candy store people die here some trapped in gates and corridors as you pass by them
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@1Historygenius Really, a whole 12.3 sec before start talking again. I hope Cameron keeps he´s promise and never return to Titanic again. He´s so full of shit and himself and he just love to hear he´s own voice. I bet he would have done exactly the same thing like Ismay, shouting am the king of the world and pushed everyone aside so he could have the whole lifeboat for himself.
Sooksawaspakdee961 1 year ago
@Sooksawaspakdee961 Sorry wait I made a mistake I over saw the last mysteries of Titanic again on youtube and instead Cameron went a whole 8.4 second before starting to talk sorry for the mistake.
1Historygenius 1 year ago
@Sooksawaspakdee961 I must diagree with you about Ismay I think he had the right so survive like all men. Near collapsible C Ismay helped women and children in the boat but when there were no more standing there he went down to A-deck to find more Purser Mcelroy thinking Ismaw was in charge now with his leaving put him in charge he saw some spots left 4 to be exact and allowed 4 men in as the boat was lowered Ismay and another man crawled in C left with 43 out of 47 seats filled i is ok for him
1Historygenius 1 year ago
I mean hell mwmzms, I could tear you a new asshole if I wanted to on the history of the Titanic. Just me playing around having a good time already ruffled you up enough that you didnt reply for a few days. Hell you cant even look up the names of the people I stated as an example that stated Titanic broke on the surface which you keep saying are liars and lightoller wasnt a liar. Really he said Titanic didnt break in half the wreck says he is a liar.
Milner62 1 year ago
Fortunately these curses similarly to your futile chatting and repeating the same over and over, aren't doing the impression on me. Here I'm ending discussion with you, because I (like everyone) do not discuss with people of the third category, which are using the sense of the internet anonymity to offend others.
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms, Really? you went to all this trouble just to post that you are done responding to me? How nice of you, first you post multiple reply messages to me that spam up my inbox and now all of a sudden you are stopping because you do not discuss with people like me? Funny how you are slinging insults left and right and even making "racist" remarks like that. I take it you were dropped on your head as a child.
Milner62 1 year ago
With all the time you spend posting on here multiple posts pointing out how passengers could have lied on the stand but yet you dont stop to think maybe lightoller lied. After all he had more at stake and a bigger reason to lie since he was employed by the WSL and putting the blaim on the company would sure enough get his ass fired. Like wise acting like lightoller was a great man just because he used his own private yatch to help those escaping dunkirk doesnt mean he didnt lie himself.
Milner62 1 year ago
You are beliving a officer who was just washed out of the way by the falling #1 funnel AT THE BOW that said the Titanic didnt break up when numerous passengers including Goldsmiths mother who let go of her son when Titanic leveled off AFTER SHE BROKE UP ON THE SURFACE and he saw the final sinking has stated from the start she broke up which has been verified.I mean how about you get off your fucking lazy ass and do the research yourself for a change.
Milner62 1 year ago
mwmzms, I just have to say this how can you breathe on your own? Your comments are so fucking retarded I dont see how you can even breathe without help.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 it's you still repeating blindly, trite opinions from films etc. it is you consider yourself infallible, not me. I'am only trying to understand everyone and not to divide people into cowards and not-cowards, while I don't have an incontrovertible evidence. Oh- and at least, I'm not offending you, but you think, that knowing nothing about me give you the right to offend me?It is attesting to your level.
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms, really how about you show me where I am stating things from the movie as fact. Last time I checked I have always poked holes in the errors in the movie. You are nothing but a troll that cant troll me like you want so you resort to childish insults because you dont have the brain to comprehend. Just like how you are too stupid to understand that Lightoller being a employee of the WSL has more reason to lie under oath than the passengers who had just survived a sinking.
Milner62 1 year ago
"I don't see a brass bed, I think she visited somebody in a room with a brass bed." loll wtf. So if he DID end up finding a room with a brass bed, would he then have said, "Oh here, this is the place where Molly remembers to have once visited."? If there WAS one, the fact that she remembers a brass bed in her room would be true. And just because you weren't able to find a brass bed, doesn't mean that it was never there, dumbass! D:<
biakim819 1 year ago
Bruce Ismay is what alot of ppl would do even tho its wrong :O
CameronDubzWTF 1 year ago
@CameronDubzWTF, yep they would get in a lifeboat with others around and then proceed to lie saying there was no one around even though two passengers were shot infront of him basically and an un identified officer blew his brains out on the bridge.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 exacly, it's ridiculous, and as I said in comment above, after disaster he was just a scapegoat, there is no evidence that he was guilty of anything, people are just ignoramuses...and it's sad.
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms, well there is evidence that Ismay did lie. He stated that there was no one around the lifeboat and he stepped in. The truth is there were surviving passengers around this area of the boat deck that states the deck was crowded and that atleast two passengers were shot by crew and an officer comitted suscide. Due to the low light condition on the decks of Titanic there was never a possible ID but it could only be 1 of 2 people. The Cheif Officer or the 1st officer.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 " well there is evidence(...) surviving passengers that states..." and you call THIS an evidence?!! Maybe you should read a little bit more about Titanic, cause clearly you think about yourself as an expert, but on the websites (official titanic club) it's written that these statements were prised off by the court.
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms Yes, Ismay did safe himself, perhaps it isn't an honourable behaviour, when around women and children are drowning, but first of all- we don't know and we will never know real circumstances in which he took this decision, second- he wasn't guilty of sinking of the ship, the entire sequence of human errors made it up. Capitan Smith also didn't have the right to ignore the threat of an icebergs and to swim so quickly,
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms yeah but nobody is accusing him because then again '' some witnesses '' could see how he caught the baby of the water, besides he went down, so he became a hero. thinking in this way one we are swearing, and second we are praising to the skies, why ? Because '' somebody, something, could see ". While the truth is, that from the second Titanic hit, nothing it's clear enough to judge those people and divide into heroes and cowards.
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms Cameron did that, cause he is an artist, movie director and he must tell good story, but it isn't giving him the right to manipulate facts and actually we know that officer who comitted suicide wasn't 1st officer Murdoch, for 99,999% it was Chief Officer Lieutenant Henry Tingle Wilde.
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms Proof, where is your evidence that it is 99.999% henry Wilde that blew his brains out? To date there is zero evidence of which officer did that, all witnesses that saw it could NOT MAKE AN POISTIVE ID. Odds are being an officer it had to be between Murdoch or Wilde because they were the only two officers at the time that was near the bridge that didnt survive.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 as I said like 10000 times, in the case of the titanic we will never have incontrovertible evidences, but on the 99% it wasn't Murdoch, and I am only reminding that yours arguments are the same: "somebody said, somebody could see"... Therefore this discussion doesn't make sense, I already said that. Only at least I know it and I am saying that we should not divide these people into cowards, because "we know about them everything", but you yes, so there is a difference between us.
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms who caught a baby? are you talking about that myth that Captain smith swam up to the collaspable lifeboat that was overturned and handed off a baby before returning to the ship?
If so that myth has been disproven from the start because there was never a baby on any of those collaspable boats not even the over turned one.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 If you want to discuss with me, first learn to read... This is what I wrote : " Capitan Smith also didn't have the right to ignore the threat of an icebergs and to swim so quickly,yeah but nobody is accusing him because then again '' some witnesses '' could see how he caught the baby of the water, besides he went down, so he became a hero." So, I meant it was stupid, I wrote "some witnesses"- it was irony, I know that this is a myth, and I wrote this
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms specially in order to demonstrate using this argument in discussion is stupid- "because witnesses said before the court", since you know it why words of "witnesses" on Ismay case are supposed to be indisputable ? It is also a myth, nowhere proven these are a former truth, but you are non-stop repeating these nonsenses... and I hope that you already know why sometimes we put the words in quotation marks .
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms Really? how about you do alittle more reading about Titanic because the same courts also threw out passengers stating that Titanic broke apart and they took the word of Lightoller who was in no position to see nor witness a break up.
So how is your claim that they threw out that bit of testimony when they threw out other bits of testimony which has since been proven correct.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62 bla, bla, bla- again the same arguments. "passengers stating". And why are they more credible than Lightoller? So far nowhere is proved at all that Tiatnic had broken down ABOVE the surface. And from where do you know, that Lightoller wasn't in the position in order to see it? Were you there with him? I believe him, because then, f. ex. during the world war II he turned out to be a man of honour, was honest. And passengers which you are talking? Whom were they?
mwmzms 1 year ago
You can see for yourself, that it is more an issue what the man believes in, rather than of evidence, so let us finish this discussion, because it doesn't make sense. I only remind you that I was talking about Ismay, and yes, he was a victim of furious crowd, it is also a matter of the ordinary psychological- wisdom: when something is going badly then a government is guilty, king, company, - and Ismay was from the White Star management board and survived. it 's his only fault.
mwmzms 1 year ago
I mean he even hired historians for his movie and he still had errors in his movie that should have been avoidable. One major one was he had Murdoch on watch when leaving ireland when he was offduty. Second was he never had lightoller give the order to open the forward port E and D deck gangway doors which tripled the hull opening form 12sq ft to 36 sq ft but yet he had in the theater version the A-deck promenade deck windows being rolled down
Milner62 1 year ago
But wow it is nice when you disagree with what someone says you instantly get negative review on it but yet I bet those that did that couldnt even debate why I am wrong so just simply thumb me down and hope people dont listen.Doesnt matter to me people can keep these false statements and myths going on and on and on wont bother me.I actually seen the D-deck gangway door that was recovered that was claimed to got flung open on collision with the sea floor,funny when latches were retracted
Milner62 2 years ago
@Milner62: You are not alone. I have noticed many errors he has said. I also like how HE thinks that HE knows more about things on Titanic then the actual survivors (e.g.: saying Molly Brown must have THOUGHT she slept in a brass bed but visited someone w/ one) who were there. He is very 'ate up with it" and so full of himself I could vomit. The documentary is good picture/film wise, I must say that. I wish I didn't have to hear his ignorant mouth.
Chrliesangelsman 1 year ago
@Chrliesangelsman I fully agree, its nice to see others see that as well. I like Cameron, he has done alot for Titanic and us researchers but with him throwing out wild crazy statements like that does nothing but hurt research because you then got people watching this taking it as the truth and then they want to argue and say your wrong.
Milner62 1 year ago
Miner62: Good point. But my biggest problem w/ him is the LACK OF RESPECT with the statements he is making. His attitude is WAY out of line with what you would expect of someone with class.
Chrliesangelsman 1 year ago
(cont'd) He acts all excited and happy, like a 6 yr old kid who got a candy bar from the supermarket, instead of remembering there are family mbrs STILL out there who LOST loved ones on Titanic, and while I don't expect him to CRY, I do think his statements (e.g.: "toilet bowl of the gods") and blatent disregard for the fact that Titanic is a GRAVE, is repulsive. He thinks he is so rich that he doesn't care WHO he offends.
Chrliesangelsman 1 year ago
(cont'd 2) he needs to lay off the coca-cola and then he may realize he is NOT 'king of the world.' When he gets his head out of la la land one day, he may be quite embarrassed. I respect Robert Ballard who was understandably excited about finding Titanic, and had uncontrolled emotions during filming, then IMMEDIATELY said his attitude changed b/c he realized he had come in on a grave. That was on the 1st National Geo. documentary.
Chrliesangelsman 1 year ago
@Chrliesangelsman yep but I have an issue with Ballard though cause hes like a whiney kid. He could have protected the wreck but he would have had to retreive artifacts to become the owner of the site basically. He didnt so the "french" did and things got plucked off the ship and he wants to call people out bout how its wrong.Really I think its nice to preserve these artifacts for a future generation to see. But I did like Ballard at one time though just over time I cant stand him anymore.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62: I have my own theory, which could be total crap, b/c it is just MY thoughts, but I can't help but thinking that the Titainic is deteriorating (spelled wrong I know) faster b/c of all the currents caused by mini-subs, lights, micro-oragnsims transfered into that area that are foreign. I have my issues w/ Robert Ballard too, but my feelings aren't near as strong as they are against James C.'s arrogant attitude & lack of respect.
Chrliesangelsman 1 year ago
@Chrliesangelsman, the theory I belive on that is the excessive fishing being done in the north atlantic is causing more silt to make its way to the depth of the Titanic instead of being eatten by the fish. That might not be correct but in any case that sounds plausable. In the end we always knew Titanic would start rotting away more and more quickly as time goes on.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62: my favorite historians about Titanic are Ken Marschell ( probably spelled wrong) and Don Lynch (probably spelled wrong too). James Eaton & Charles Haas were good too, but haven't heard much about them lately.
Chrliesangelsman 1 year ago
@Chrliesangelsman I agree on them. I even talked with Ken alittle bit on the Titanic forums I am on. He doesnt show his face on there much but he does from time to time.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Chrliesangelsman those kind of comments dont bother me much,but I think that is mostly cause my connection with Titanic is more on a mechanical historical position.Some people reseach the people that was on Titanic.I am more into the mechanical layout of the ship how she was built and how she sank.He wanted to get into the boiler room to check out the coal bunker bulkhead.I started thinking why didnt he try going down one of the ventilation shafts that goes into that boiler room.
Milner62 1 year ago
@Milner62: what do you think about that "new" theory that the Titanic broke from the bottom up? That she broke at a 15 degree angle rather than a higher angle? I was watching that the other day on TV. They say that they found parts of her double bottom and descibed the damage as "ribbons of steel." Any thoughts on that Miner? I'd like to know your opinion. I don't know what to think.
Chrliesangelsman 1 year ago
@Chrliesangelsman, bottom up break is a bunch of bs in my book. The stern was being pulled down by gravity as the bow was pulling down due to gravity and the loss of bouyancy. Hence the mid section of the ship became a seesaw and the ocean the fulcrum. Resulted in a top down break. Now the 15* angle I belive that, video I have with lecture slides I created I got the angle no higher than 18* and that was to get the crowsnest level with ocean when the bridge was underwater
Milner62 1 year ago
@Chrliesangelsman Correct. Its not smart to deem someone that has long since passed away as being wrong on what they said. I mean I thought he knew that there are no exsisting blueprints of Titanic that shows all the last minute changes made. He doesnt even know what room number she was in but yet say she was wrong. Just like saying that Gracie jumped up at the firstclass entrance when in his book he stated he did that at the gym further aft alongside the #2 funnel.
Milner62 1 year ago
Wrong Jim, I read Gracies book and he said he jumped up and grabbed the railing before the wave reached him and the wave helped him to reach the railing alongside #2 funnel at the Gym. What your showing is not the gym. The windows are not correct and the 2002-2003 photo I have of the gym shows pretty much nothing left.
Milner62 2 years ago
@Milner62 i'm pretty sure the world renown Titanic reseracher would know what he's talking about actually. and even if he doesn't just enjoy the pictures and the video that is giving us a passage into what it was like.
Molly Brown was such an amazing woman!! =)
melimonkey11 2 years ago
Just because your a "world renown" Titanic research doesnt mean that you are right. Does that little piece of paper that says I am a certified automotive technican means I am good or right? Nope it doesnt it just means I know how to take tests. Same with this what is his source for what he said because Gracie in his own book written in 1912 before his death stated he was jumping up at the railing above the Gym at the base of #2 funnel.
Milner62 2 years ago
Way to make an assumption. You got just one person overhearing a conversation between Captain Smith and Ismay in the reception room and instantly everyone wants to tout ismay urging smith to speed up to arrive early as fact. Please Titanic was going slower than her normal service speed and the first class passenger overhearing what was said could have EASILY taken what was said out of context.
Milner62 2 years ago
Molly Brown is one of my Favorite survivors stories!! In one night, she broke the rules of a men world, & became a true heroine!! Gob Bless her!!
AROBASPARK 2 years ago 2
It's annoying how they used corny footage shot for Ghosts of the Abyss, a previous Cameron documentary.
Trancemaster2052 2 years ago
Comment removed
djharvey87 2 years ago
Bruce Ismay shaved his balls.
indacan32samui 2 years ago
"Humble to the power of nature"? What happened to humbling yourself to God. There was no "nature" at work, so to speak that helped to sink Titanic. Its mostly due to people's errors and they're poor choices.
EmilyGreene1984 3 years ago 4
He talk about the iceberg
Peace7Maker 3 years ago 8
@Peace7Maker "he talk about d' iceberg" what the fuck r u saying retard?!
stillwaterseven 1 year ago
Those poor choices were vis-à-vis the power of nature. If they had thought about the power of nature, they may have made different choices. Geddit?
Gnickk 3 years ago 3
He alluded to man's hubris and underestimating the power of nature and how powerful it can be.
To that extent, he is absolutely right.
And it is 'their', whilst we pick up on mistakes.
Spaceweed10 2 years ago
I agree with you, but i wouldnt put down to error so much as utter human arrogance, but ur right not really a power of nature, but definitly human arrogance, overconfidence
PeteAbo 2 years ago
toilet bowl of the gods...?? wow what a metaphor
cocoacute 3 years ago 22
@cocoacute: I think it sounds stupid, and is very disrespectful to the many family mbrs who lost loved ones on the Titanic. Jim Cameron is very full of himself.
Chrliesangelsman 1 year ago
I *hate* it when morons get to make documentaries.
"Some people were heroes, others were villains", etcetera.
There were no heroes and no villains on the Titanic. They were all human fucking beings, and they all did what you or I would do. How the hell can anyone say "Well *I* wouldn't have got in the boat", if you've never been on a sinking ship with not enough boats!!!!!
Zebonka 3 years ago 3
Just because they say that some people behaved heroically and others not, it doesn't mean they're saying that they themselves would also be heroes.
Gnickk 3 years ago
Your comment must be directed at someone else, because it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
Zebonka 3 years ago
@Zebonka so true!! finally someone! I agree totally!
mwmzms 1 year ago
Bruce Ismay is a coward.
ashtonrebecca 3 years ago 4
i agree 100000% ashtonrebecca
titanic5577 3 years ago 4
@ashtonrebecca and how you know this? Ismay became a scapegoat because he '' survived ''. I read a lot about Titanic and everywhere is written, that after the disaster, on the famous process, everyone '' witnesses " talked how Ismay was a coward, guilty etc., while later it turned out that they hadn't had evidence to it.
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms They invented it, because he was only from decision-makers ( I mean White Star Line) which survived, and they were a miserable crowd. As much as I understand their emotions, I cannot so easily justify such behaviour. I am also a woman, but I think, that principle "women and children first" isn't so clever at all. Is the life of men less worth? No!
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms And the truth is that, where Ismay stood, by the boat, just in that moment, it was nobody more, and there were places still. Whether not better one living more came off to rescue? It is hacking me off, that you are such ignoramuses! What will Hoolywood hand to you on so , you are taking at face value! Cameron did exactly what his predecessors in films about Titanic- Bruce Ismay had to be a villain, because it held on to the dramatic plot;
mwmzms 1 year ago
@mwmzms as a matter of fact Cameron manipulated much more information- like about the Murdoch, which TOOK NO MONEY AT ALL and DIDNT KILL HIMSELF! Its offending the memory of people which simply stood up in the face of the inconceivable tragedy. And what's more : long-lasting offending, because instilled for million of ignoramuses.
mwmzms 1 year ago