Rover K-Series Engine Part One

[crosseyxpoweruk]

ur all talkin bullshit head gaskets never go on k-series for nothing ay only go like any other car its down to coolant not being full in coolant bottle or overheating by part of the cooling system failing like water pump or thermostat or coolant bottle cap or by loss of water owned many mgs and rover and so have my family and friends and theres has never blown its only down to the miss use of idiot owners that when they see temperature gauge on the red they think its ok itl be alright they blow

[bmwfan4lyfe]

if they spent 6 years developing the engine why didn't rover notice the engines had weak head-gaskets. thats the only let down with the K-series unit.

[malcstag]

Usual Rover issues. Briiliant design, crap execution, saving a few quid on parts (ie plastic head gaskets!), what were they thinking. My 600 & 75 were great cars,

[discocreator76]

And what a monumental balls up the whole thing was!!! Shite!

[discocreator76]

That guy at the beginning sounds like a retard!

[turricaned]

@discocreator76 No, he sounds like a Swede.

[MrNickcafc]

my HG has just gone on my 200 coupe.

great engine when it works though.

[mushroomscouser]

You are correct. Accountancy terminology has little to do with engineering and selling good product. Either way, in 2004 the countries airfields and dealerships filled up with Rover Cars you couldnt give away. Which is why the "brand" was sold to the Chinese for £1.

The MG/Rover brand was worth £1. The Chinese were robbed. With the exception of perhaps the MIni, every car to ever be excreted out of the arse hole that is Longbridge has been a total shit box.

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser (continues)

None whatsoever, because the car has been and will continue to be very reliable!

On another note,I know a couple of former MG-Rover dealers and, contrary to you sir, have had Rovers in the past, and still do now! Actually, I know a lot of people who own and have owned Rovers and MGs and are terribly happy with them!!!

So, I say again, great brands MG and Rover!

[mushroomscouser]

@shaitan The difference between insolvency and "going bust" is academic.

Like I said, I have 17 years main dealer experience with MGR product. I also have VW Group (current) and Mazda experience, and both are far superior. I despise MGR because many poeple (often pensioners) faced big bills for just out of warranty claims. MGR also tried to deny issues when they (and every dealer) knew the problem was significant. Hence the Watchdog episode. Any MGR technician will confirm my comments.

[mushroomscouser]

@mushroomscouser SAIC bought the IPR for a quid. They was robbed. The kncok down chinese MGF's have hardly been a hor seller either. Because they are as shit as the original.

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser No it is not. Bankruptcy means the company was dissolved and the brand no longer exists, insolvency, at least in this case, means the brand was bought by another company not being in use right now.

And that is a problem of your dealer, or of the dealer network of your country (unless you live in the UK :s ). And even if you do, that might be wrong from the company, but it doesn't make the actual cars better or worse!

[peppersdog1]

why the fuck did rover not tackle the head gasket issue

[blaster2012]

@peppersdog1 They did tackle the issue,it was redesigned a total of 7 times.

[peppersdog1]

@blaster2012 and its still shit...if i were to redesign this engine i would make the head bolts 2 mm wider use metal dowels and the new multi layered head gasket made of a softer metarial ie copper the thermostat would have a small bypass hole to stop thermal shock and the valve in the head to the degass pipe done away with

[blaster2012]

@peppersdog1 People keep saying the K was shit. I have had several K series cars and never had an issue with any of them. My current car has a K in it. Caterham put them in their 7's for heavens sake!

[peppersdog1]

@blaster2012 just put it down to luck

[blaster2012]

@peppersdog1 I can see you hate the K series engine...

[peppersdog1]

@blaster2012 no i domt i hate the people who would not tackle its problems correctly

[blaster2012]

@peppersdog1 Thats management cost cutting for you. Had the Rover Group been properly managed, they would still be making cars today.

[discocreator76]

Shame they were shit engines, with more than the issue of HGF to worry about...

[mushroomscouser]

I have a VW golf that has done 260,000 miles with only a new alternator and water pump. Fantastic engine. Thats why VW are still making money out of cars.

Rover went bust because the cars were shite. End of story..

[WAYNOSCOUPE]

@mushroomscouser I think you have missed the point here this engine was revolutionary the vw engine is a standard head bolt on block layout not only that iv had 6 rovers with the t16 engine and have never had to replace anything but brakes etc things that wear you can be unlucky or lucky with cars my mates golf has just blown its turbo after 60, 000 miles shite engine!

[mushroomscouser]

@WAYNOSCOUPE Most people buy cars to be reliable. The 4 cylinder water cooled VW engine has a performance and reliablity record Rover could not even dream of. K-series was produced before it was developed. Nothing revolutionary about through head bolts to yield and damp liners. The turbo on your mates golf was either 3K Garrett or Mitsubishi, not VW. He should change his oil and filter more often in addition to his air filter. Rover were so shite thay went bust.

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser Wow, you really do have a grudge against Rover don't you?

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser Let me ask: How many Rovers have you ever owned?

...

I rest my case.

[mushroomscouser]

@shaitan You are asking the wrong question.

The question to ask me is "How many Rovers did you see with failed head gaskets when you spent 17 years as a mechanic in a MG Rover main dealership?" Thousands. Which is why i never owned a Rover.

Because they are cheaply made, poorly designed and utter shit, hence Rover going bust.

Case Rested.

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser Really?! You say that Rover "went bust" and you want me to believe that you worked at a dealer for 17 years?! Rover didn't go "bust", the brand was declared insolvent - which is completelly different - and bought by Tata.

If Rover really went down due to the K-Series engine, why didn't MG?! With the MG TF still using K-Series 'till this day - it's last year in production -, and the new models coming out this year, I'd say they didn't exactly "went bust"...

TBC

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser (continues)

And the main reason MG-Rover Group broke down and was separated, was the missievings of the head managers at Longbridge, who went on trial last year or so. Now I wouldn't go as far as to say that the HGF problem didn't play a part in it - as did the BMW ownership, the scars BL left in all brands it managed and many other factors - but it certainly wasn't the main issue...

TBC

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser (continues)

Furthermore, the problem itself is not major, for Christ sake, specially with the "new" MLS gasket kit (with the redesigned oilrail, and the "thicker" gasket (which were not, contrary to general belief, developed by BMW, but by Powertrain, a division of the MGRG!) If used correctly, the engine will NOT overheat, the head and block will NOT expand and different rates and the HG will NOT fail!

TBC

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser (continues)

And if it does, it's a 600€ repair that - when performed correctly, and proper maintenance is done - will only be needed once in the 300 000+ kilometer lifespan of the engine! For the great engine that it is, with 95bhp when it was designed circa 1989 (103bhp in 1992, which was at the time immense for a 1400cc engine at the time), great response, awesome power-to-weight ratio due to the use of aluminium and an incredible long lifespan, i can live with that!

TBC

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser (continues)

And as far as the rest of the cars go, they are very good overall! Classic stylish design, great equipment options at the time, good value for money, great performance, comfort, the lot!

My previous Rover ran for over 100 000km without a single major problem - HGF or otherwise - until i traded it for my current one, a '94 214 Cabrio, is having is original HG replaced RIGHT NOW AT 181 000KM! Do I have a problem with that?

TBC

[shaitan]

@mushroomscouser This will be a much shorter response:

Yes, because MG isn't making money with the last year of the K-Series powered TF...! ;)

Not much, I'll give you that, but still...

[blaster2012]

@mushroomscouser No, the cars were good enough, it was the management that was shite. Obviously anything made by VW or VAG group in general is going to be a better car.

[mushroomscouser]

@blaster2012 What do you call management? Chairman or Chargehand? The cars were expensive and unreliable. Factory support of dealerships was farcical. People didnt stop buying the cars because of management. They stopped buying the cars because you could buy far better cars with your money. And by better I mean more reliable, better built and better designed. Longbridge was "jobs for the boys". Always was. And is today until the chinese realise there is no technology of worth.

[SuperTabitha22]

Lovely engine, smooth, responsive, powerful and easy to maintain.............IF you can keep the head gasket on.

[nostrildeep1]

these engines get slated for nothing the problem is people not letting car heat up properly, also over filling the cooling system, cooling system on these are pressurised. i got 216 coupe n reg and 177k plus on clock and owned it for 10 yrs and never done any gaskets on it,

[authmaax]

this ideia costs around 400 € every 2 years to the owners of cars with this K engines

[shaitan]

@authmaax Not if it is repaired and maintained properly! ;)

It will not be 400€ (I've had mechanics offering to do it at that price or even a bit lower, but at the expense of quality...), more like 600.

The gasket should be replaced with a MLS, as the oil-rail, the bolts should be replaced, the head should be verified for warpage and a few other bits and ends. Do this, and verify the cooling system regularly, as you should with any vehicle, and the engine will run smoothly for a very long time

[authmaax]

@shaitan it was 1000€ the whole pack head gasket head resurfacing all head gaskets pump puller belts metallic tube of the coolant system and a hose of the coolant system and reprogramming i supose now it needs to have the cap fo the expansion system only snug tight to be able to let the coolant system pressure escape, or else the water is consumed and ends up exiting through the exaust pipe.

[shaitan]

@authmaax Hum... some of that is not really part of a HG replacement. The hoses and tubes need to be replaced sometimes in all cars. At least I do so in all my cars (MGR and not).

Although, if that continues to happen, something was not done correctly.

My new 214 recently went to the shop for the same service. Turns out, the gasket was ok, it was the block that looked like a swiss cheese... Apparently the previous owner used water instead of coolant! :S

[topski100]

once they go the first time theyre never gonna have the same clearance volume

[MakINE16V]

Pues lo siento mucho pero mi Rover 416si a los 100.000km un poro entre la camisa y el conducto de refrigeración que pasaba por al lado y zas....todo lleno de refrigerante, cambiar el motor entero y un pastón enorme. Un buen motor hasta que se jode. Lastima porque de por sí, va muy muy fino.

[TK42138]

Not sure how old your Rover is.

Peugeot/Citroen almost did the same thing but just managed to squeeze in the 4th glowplug behind the pump. A nightmare to replace if they've been overtightened or seized. Assuming it will unwind you still have to unbolt a coolant pipe to be in with a chance to remove it. That's reminded me my glowplugs are about ready for replacement. Glad I coated the present ones with copper based grease...

Your channel looks interesting so I've subscribed.

[TK42138]

Sounds like a good engine. I'm guessing you carry out regular oil changes with good quality oil?

My '97 Citroen Xantia 1.9 TD has done163,000miles and also passes smoke test and according to the test centre the emissions are virtually the same as the day it was made. However it averages 48mpg and will struggle to return 51mpg but that's due to engine driven hydraulic pump and the car's weight.

[TK42138]

Do you mean engine stays at operating temperature then overheats after 10-20 minutes or it takes that time to heat up?

This is a classic symptom of most diesel engines of this era unfortunately. It's due to the thermally more efficient nature of a diesel.

[TK42138]

In Swavesey, Cambridgeshire there is the MGOC that specialise in MGF's and the K series.

Seeping hoses and O-ring leaks are what contributes to early demise of a K engine. Shame really because when they do run properly they are smooth and revvy.

[TK42138]

This engine was too clever for its own good. Just a shame they used plastic dowels to locate the head instead of the proper metal type. Bloody BL/Rover penny pinching and short sightedness. That's one of the reasons why Rover went under.

Rover should have stuck with the Honda engines as found in Rover 216 and 827.

[TK42138]

Try to use pressure bleeding and filling for the K Series. Most MGF/Rover specialists should have the equipment and it's possible to buy similar on a DIY basis so long as you've got access to an air compressor.

[leo6985600409]

please!!!somebody help me,if i change the thermostat,so the water start to run before 90 degrees,is it possible to save it from the damage?now i have 50.000km and there is not any oil leak.greetings from greece

[kazimann]

Known for head gasket problems.

[poodlemuffer]

a disaster of an engine!

[mickeymoose76]

certainly is!

[SparrowNoblePoland]

I'm some kind of crazy about FSO Polonez with that engine.

[cju200]

3:10 to 3:20 when they fit the HG was so fucking funny seeing the HG drop then the guy just slams the head down lol

[drifmaniac2009]

And the head bolts hitting (and marking) the block surface during assembly

[TheSaintST1]

The gasket problem was not a major issue on earlier engines up to 1.4 litres. Problems came when they lopped the top deck off to fit the damp liners. the 1.6 and 1.8 were notorious for this. You cannot slag off this technique as it has been don for former F1 and motorbikes for a while before then. Rover was the first production car manufacturer to use this system. Given the funding that SAIC have given to the engine designers, HGF is no longer a problem.

[mickeymoose76]

You can criticise this practice in Rovers' case, since by doing this made the engine into a unreliable knightmare of an engine that is among the worst of history...

[TheSaintST1]

The problems were mostly from the cooling system working in the opposite way from other systems in a bid to control emissions from cold starts and if this had been done the conventional way, we certainly wouldn't be seeing cases of distortion that would leadf to the HGF problem. Interestingly, high milegae cars have been using their original gaskets whereas cars used mostly for town have seen these problems manifest themselves at around 80-90k (on the original gasket).

[TheSaintST1]

.. in a sense giving credeance to this idea. Use of an MLS type gasket and the modified oil rail (bottom section) can relieve the problems as can using the PRT thermostat which can help to regulate the water inlet into the head better on warm up. But you say that most HG's go straight after 20k.. Well if that's the case then there are a lot of mech which aren't following the book closely. This engine has very, very strict tolerances and can't be repaired just like any old ford/opel/toyota engine

[javinea]

valla puta mierda de motoress. malisimos ¨¨porexperienza¨¨

[mickeymoose76]

Dont talk shit, the K series is a total waste of space, you never get trouble with Toyota engines and I dont believe you for one second!

[beehen12345]

Lol? You're just making yourself sound like an immigrant.

[mickeymoose76]

an immigrant? what you on about?

[TheSaintST1]

Interestingly, most high mileage ones one their original gaskets do tend to last quite well. What you normally find though is that most of the 1.6 and 1.8s driven around town tend to blow their gaskets after about 80k.

[mickeymoose76]

20k is the norm for the later ones, I know someone who bought a brand new Freelander and has had HGF 3 times in the 55k miles it has done, this is typical of most MGR K series products

[TheSaintST1]

So you are basing this on what you've heard? What data are you using?

[TheSaintST1]

Fundamentally, the design is good but the execution although the execution was poor - most likely down to under investment in R&D. I would like to see how the SAIC (unit fares (for all their resources) with HGF and whether this has actually been engineered out. If this is the case then the through-bolt design can be fully justified.

[mickeymoose76]

a watch dog report and personal experience. a friend bought a 1.8 litre 75 in 2001 and had HGF3 times in 75,000 miles, another work colleague bought a 1998 freelander 1.8 and had HGF twice in45,000miles

[topski100]

@iamthefatstig you're very lucky!

[iamthefatstig]

@topski100 I was bought up on two stroke bikes and always warmed them up prior to using the engine moderate to hard. As a result I warm cars up too. Never had any problems with any K series., I've had several BMW 3 series lumps blow HG's as well. I work at MIRA and you soon learn whats fact and whats myth.

[topski100]

@iamthefatstig indeed. I was the same with two stroke engines as a child, and later with small road bikes. But I've experienced and engine warping under thermal expansion when the bolts have warped the cylinder head. Even though the official repaor head gasket was fitted, the synthetic seals on the oil journals rubbed away, which I assume must have been due to the head moving relative to the block under expansion.

[Liamautomechanic]

@cdr268 i agree the mod tin gaskit solves the problem.

[TheSaintST1]

lol.. you talk shit too

[JMRSilvestre]

The good K-Series engine, unfortunately with head gasket problems in fews engine...

[mickeymoose76]

"in a few engines" ??? In 95% of the engines!!! only the single cam variants had any chance of lasting more than 20k miles before major rebuilds!!