Great video. Some very strange comments below which don't seem to be about the content of this but only about crude generalisations of different nationalities that I don't recognise.
Back to the video which confirms that the Germans had better armour and could pick off Allied armour at longer range but had very limited supply of men and machinery. IT ended up being a numbers game.
The German BND is the renamed 3rd Reich GESTAPO.The BND had organized the delegate Scheuermann of our county to visit or home.To allow him to personally experience how my brother and our patents had been tortured.The BND continued to torture my brother.He was assassinated on July 11th2009.Half a year after the assassination of my brother the CDU delegate Mappus from our district town Pforzheim was made prime minister of the German land of Baden Würtemberg
The only thing i regret that we germans did in the East was to treat the people under the oppression of Stalin as Untermensch. Russians, Ukranians, the baltic states shared a long and "brother" like history with German. It was an Russian Czar that saved Fredrich Prussia, and Katarina the Great was German.
People speak about Nazi, but Stalins Communism was far worse.
If I'm not mistaken they figured out Whittmann was killed by a Canadian anti-tank gun. Ironic being he prided himself not so much on afv kills but anti tank gun kills.
Operation Goodwood cost the British 450-500 tanks, it was a disaster because the German Tiger and Panther could shoot up the Shermans at long range with their 88mm and 75mm longbarrel guns, 2000-3000 metres, whereas the Shermans had to get within 700 metres to stand a chance. Not very good odds at all for the Brits and Americans.
@haiherosner So what? Germans still lost. And LOST BIG. German Counter attack to re-take Caen failed. And resistance collapsed in 2 days and Caen was secured. There are many other ways to destroy or disable the tank other than sending another tank against it.
@ssmusic214 The allied tanks were no match for German Panzers, they had to resort to massive air superiority to win. Your also ignoring the fact that the Russians did most of the hard fighting on the Eastern front, they had better tanks then the allies, that could match the Germans, example T-34, KV-1, IS-1, IS-2 etc, The Germans had 75% of their army, tanks, airforce on the Eastern front, the U.S. and Britain had it easy mate, by 1943 Russians were irritated by allies, when will you attack?
@haiherosner And you think Soviets didn't have to "resort to numerical superiority"? Practically ALL of Soviet victories were won by simply pouring fresh forces into battle faster than Germans could kill them. NONE of Soviet tanks were match to Tiger or Panther either. And 75% is a myth.
@ssmusic214 You seem so bitter, of course the Soviets had to resort to numerical superiority to beat the Germans, the point is that they faced the brunt of German might and fought it to a standstill, while the allies dragged their feet until 1944 when they finally attacked because they knew the Wehrmacht was sufficiently weakened and exhausted from the Russian front. The Russians were highly suspicious that the west wanted them and the German's to exhaust themselves like two heavy-weight boxers.
@haiherosner Whether you think I am "bitter" or not is absolutely irrelevant. Soviet methods of fighting are unquestionable. You would be very bitter to be piece of cannon fodder Stalin was throwing into battle.
And Soviet "suspicions" are irrelevant either. Soviets themselves couldn't even ever dream of accomplishing anything remotely approaching cross ocean amphibious invention. And Stalin's methods of throwing away millions of poorly trained soldiers not acceptable for Western Allies.
@ssmusic214 My whole point is that , had the Germans not faced a 2 front war, the allies would have had quite an impossible task at hand landing at Normandy. Could you imagine the entire might of the German war machine being available in France waiting for the allies to attack, to counter it? Your dismissing how much the West owes to the Soviets for softening up the Wehrmacht for them to succed in 1944, cannon fodder or not, they were brave. Without the Soviets, the U.S. and Britain, no chance!
@haiherosner And Soviets always dismissing how much they owe to the West. Conveniently forgetting that until US entered the war USSR suffered greatest military disaster ever recorded on history. And if US wouldn't keep Japan occupied with fighting Pacific War there is absolute ZERO chance of USSR surviving combined assault from both East and West.
@ssmusic214 Your forgetting that the Soviets launched a ferocious counter-attack against German army group centre in front of Moscow in Dec,5th 1941, without any help from U.S.A. , and managed to push the Germans back nearly 100 miles towards Smolensk. So, the so-called "DISASTER" was averted without any U.S. and Brit help, thanks to the Russian fighting spirit, which contradicts what you said about the U.S.S.R. not winning until the U.S. helped them. Remember the U.S. was neutral until DEC/41!
@haiherosner There was nothing "ferocious" about Moscow 1941 counter attack against frozen, sick, out of ammo, out of fuel German troops (thanks to enormous Hitler's blunder) by fresh Soviet troops transferred from Siberia as soon as Soviets found out That Japs are not going to attack USSR. And it was 100 kilometers, not miles. And in 1942 Soviets suffered another great disaster. And 5 million POW surrendering to Germans is hardly indication of "great fighting spirit".
@ssmusic214 The Russian counter-offensive in DEC/1941 created a bulge anywhere from 62-150 miles or 100-250 km deep, so my comment of pushed back 100 miles is conservative, not inaccurate as you claim. You seem to be quite dismissive of Soviet achievements, it was a ferocious battle, because at the end of it between 400,000-480,000 casualties were suffered by Germans and Soviets were higher 650,000-850,000 depending on sources, don't make excuses for the Wehrmacht being sick(cold) and out of amo
@haiherosner 100 Km figure comes from EVERY Soviet history book I ever studied. Casualties never accurately estimated (up to 2.5 Million for Soviets). Soviets never counted "Folks Army" (civilians with 3 days of military training thrown in to battle to be slaughtered). German army was totally unprepared to fight Russian Winter war 1941 Coldest and Earliest on record. German rear Supply vehicles using synthetic Gasoline that freezes at -40C were totally paralyzed.
@ssmusic214 Just because the Wehrmacht was silly enough not to be prepared for winter warfare, does not excuse the fact that they got whipped outside of Moscow. Your just trying to diminish the Soviet achievements by giving the Germans a-lot of excuses as to why they failed. A Crutch is no excuse for having lost a battle, when it is your own fault for crippling yourself by not preparing or having the foresight of a possible winter combat conditions, Period! :D
@haiherosner That giant blunder had nothing to with Wehrmacht but with Hitler imagining himself great military and strategic genius. Just like Stalin did.
And I am not "diminishing" anybody's achievements. Just your opinion of "fierceness" of the battle. It doesn't take too much fierceness to push away 100km frozen, sick, starving, army out of amo, food, winter clothing, gasoline and everything else you can name.
And only few months later Soviets suffered another great military disaster.
@ssmusic214 Hitler order a directive, "Not one step back", with the threat of death to anyone whom disobeyed, this saved the Wehrmacht Army Group Centre from total destruction. So although Hitler and the Wehrmacht did blunder with unpreparedness for winter war, Hitler's directive did save Army Group Centre from an imminent disaster. Therefore Army group Centre put up a stiff and fierce resistance to Soviet "FIERCE" counterattack, hence tremendous casualties. Your trying to diminish Soviet succes
@haiherosner Nonsense! Stalin was issuing "Not one step back" in every battle. That only helped Germans to wipe out millions of Soviet solders. Same happened with Hitler.
After fall of Smolensk in August 1941 there was NOTING standing between Germans and Moscow. Hitler could have had his victory parade on Red Square. Instead he detached his most powerful tank divisions North toward Leningrad and South to Ukraine against advise of his Generals biting more than he could chew.
@ssmusic214 You said after fall of Smolensk in August 1941, there was nothing standing between Hitler and Moscow, that's false! Standing in the way of Army Group Centre was the Russian 19th, 20th, 24th, 32nd, 5th, 16th, 43rd,49th,and 30th Armies. There was also the battle of Orel on Oct/3rd, battle of Bryansk on OCT/6th, and battle of Vyazma on Oct/10th, although the Russians lost huge in Bryansk and Vyazma pocket encirclements, with over 150,000 killed in Vyazma alone, Russians had reserves!
@haiherosner Hallooo.... Look at the map. Bryansk and Orel are way south, near Ukraine. Nowhere near Moscow or Smolensk. And you are talking about October. 3 month after Russian collapse. And even than all those "Armies" and "reserves" were Stalin's conscripted cannon fodder. Nowhere remotely resembling regular troops led by completely inexperienced commanders.
@ssmusic214 I can see that it's a waste of my time talking to you, the fact is there was plenty of Russian strength between Smolensk and Moscow, where the hell do you think Vyazma is? Don't forget to wave your Union Jack flag, you pompous British fool, the fact is without Russia, Britain has no chance, end of story, good bye!
I've been to Vyazma and all those places many times. I Served in SOVIET ARMY in 1970-71 under very officers who fought at battle of Moscow. My uncle was killed near Leningrad in the fall of 1941. Soviets made him "lieutenant" in "peoples army" after 3 days of military training just because he was the only one in the group with higher education. Germans wiped them out in minutes.
Now that you REALLY MADE TOTAL IDIOT OF YOURSELF we can say good bye.
@ssmusic214 For a Russian citizen you don't seem to have too much confidence in Russian achievements in WW2, despite tremendous odds, and huge setbacks against Germans, they succeeded to save their country, yet your attitude seems to be that they were lucky to win without the Western help. You should have more pride in your country's achievements, rather than trying to diminish your people's bravery and courage in Dec/1941, peace dude! Goodbye.
@haiherosner As former USSR citizen I can tell the difference between reality and propaganda fairy tales and know from my own experience who was "lucky" and why.
You want to talk about Soviet Union in WW2? Soviet Union stole half of Poland and invaded Finland in 1939.
Soviet Union was sipping vodka with Hitler from 1939 to 1941 and didn't even lift a finger to help Great Britain when Britain was having problems in 1940. Where did Soviet Union help Britain in 1940? NOWHERE.
Communist Soviet Union was as bad as Nazi Germany and Stalin was an evil dictator. The Soviets didn't care about anybody else in WW2, only themselves.
@LaughingGravy31 Brittain helped the mensheviks in the civil war so it's quite understandable that the USSR didnt want to spill its own blood to help their natural enemy.. In my point, Stalin would be more than happy to see England and Germany kill each other. He would then just roll his army and conquer Europe without resistance
"..A long and bloody Russian Civil War ensued between the Reds and the Whites, starting in 1917 and ending in 1923. It included foreign intervention and the famine of 1921, which killed about five million.."
"..The Allied intervention was a multi-national military expedition launched in 1918 during World War I which continued into the Russian Civil War. Its operations included forces from 14 nations and were conducted over a vast territory..."
@LaughingGravy31 Mr Hippocrite, the reverse is true as well,the west was sipping Vodka with Uncle Joseph Stalin from 1941-45 the biggest mass murderer of all time,he killed 30 million of his own people,but the British and The American's looked the other way even though he invaded Finland in 1939-40,they did not declare war on Russia. You want even more hippocrisy? While Germany and Russia Invaded Poland in 1939, Britain declared war on Germany,BUT not on RUSSIA, Britain did not care Hippocrite!
You cannot argue the fact that Britain actually WENT TO WAR for another country, when they could have easily stood by and did nothing or even joined Hitler.
Britain declared war of put itself in the shit becuase ANOTHER COUNTRY was invaded.
The Soviet Union didn't give a shit about any country except their own. They just fought to defend themselves after they were invaded and had no interest in helping out anybody else.
@LaughingGravy31 "good" and "bad" is made by winning or loosing. we talk about the great roman empire because they won (slaves, and killing for entertament) the nazis lost so theyre bad, soviets lost the cold war. so they are bad too, cose the winners allways control the media. if the soviets would have won we would talk about the facist capitalists testing their bombs on helpless civillians (what they did) ur opinion is right but please dont come with good or bad...
@LaughingGravy31 err.. nope if germany would have won you would talk about the great german empire or simply die... and what do you mean their "idologies" were bad for the world? slavery was really nothing new and killing because of religion is nearly normal the only reason we talk about the bad evil germany is because the winning forces want the focus on that so no one talks about their evil behavior im not everybody but im someone and i dont accept your opinion
@LaughingGravy31 u even realize that good and bad is make belive? something made up by humans to control others? u dont seem to understand that since we exist we enslave or kill other humans... the nazis werent "more" bad as any other human being a human is a human no matter what he does we are just like animals.. do you call animals "bad" because they do brutal and sometimes extremly cruel stuff even to their own species?
@LaughingGravy31 there is no difference between france and germany.. both just some humans.. there is no france and there is no germany.. we just made it up to keep control jeez
@061323980 in human history every few years and in every other group other rules and other opinions of what is good and what is evil were made up.. i dont think the nazis thought evil about themselves.. from todays point the nazis maybe were evil BUT no one knows what the leading group (the winner of ww3) in future will think.. so the whole thing is pointless without any truth in it because truth is static and cant change..
@LaughingGravy31 whoops made a mistake in my last comment (talked to myself instead of you (sry bout that) and a second (maybe) mistake.. if you belive in religion just ignore everything i said because i cant prove you wrong in that point and any conversation would be pointless (in that case again: sorry bout that)
@LaughingGravy31 History is written by the Victor's, whether you accept this or not is irrelevant because that's how it is in the real world, if the U.S. had lost WW2 they would have been held responsible for war crimes for dropping the Nuke bombs on Japan, called crimes against humanity (civillians) it is documented fact that American generals were afraid of being charged with war crimes, and for dropping bombs on German civillian populations non-military targets, the West is a huge Hippocricy!
@LaughingGravy31 The A-bombs did not save millions of lives that's a total myth created by the Truman administration to justify using The Bomb on the Yellow People as an experiment to see how much damage it can do, and to show Russia, do not F***K with us, the USA!! Japan was finished militarily, there were no more military targets left in Japan of any significance, the U.S. could have annihlated Japan with Conventional weapons and Invasion of mainland, don't believe the propaganda crap from USA
It's a widely held historical opinion that if the A-bombs were not dropped then FAR MORE people would have been killed in the long run.
The battle of Okinawa where over 150,000 Japanese people died PROVED that the Japanese were not going to give up easily.
The A bombs completely obliterated their will to fight on.. Without them an allied invasion of the Japanese mainland would have happened or a massive conventional bombing campaign that would have killed even more.
@LaughingGravy31 continued....No, you stupid cunt, millions of people would not have died if the U.S. invaded the mainland of Japan, that was just good propaganda, Japan was militarily finished, the real reason why the A-Bomb was dropped was to speed up the defeat process before the Russians gained a significant foothold in Asia, the Russians were advancing rapidly and would have been an ominous threat to U.S. interests in the region,the less Jap territory they take the better for U.S. interests
150,000 Japanese died at Okinawa and showed NO SIGN of surrendering.
80,000 Japanese died fighting the Soviets in Manchuria.
There is NO WAY the Japanese would have surrendered like that if the A-bombs were not dropped. NO WAY whatsoever.
The A-bombs ended the Pacific War within one week, not the least all those people in the Japanese occupied territories and POWS who were being tortured and starved to death.
@LaughingGravy31 You silly fool,were you concerned with Japanese casualties or American casualties? Because I can tell you for certain that the Americans were only concerned with U.S. casualties, they couldn't give a flying fuck if ten million Japanese died,only how many U.S. marines and Army and Navy,nothing else. It has been proven that the U.S. could have taken the Jap mainland with minimum casualties,the Jap airforce was non-existent after Okinawa,the A bombs beat the Russians to the punch.
@LaughingGravy31 Mate,calling me names like Commie Commie, show how immature you are and the fact that you seem to like to use the derogatory term CUNT an awful lot when you disagree with someone, tells me you need to get some!!:D Stick to the topic at hand,since you called me cunt, I called you cunt in return. I was merely playing the Devil's Advocate to educate you that there are always two sides to a story,the world is not Black and White,nor is it Good or Bad,empires go to war for interests.
@LaughingGravy31 The British Empire is over mate , get over it, nobody gives a shit about self-righteous British Pricks anymore, your merely a U.S. puppet at best, like Justin Sullivan sings in New Model Army, your the 51st State of America, LOL. Anyhow I can't say it has been a pleasure talking to a biased one sided person whom only regurgitates the American or British point of view of history, hopefully I will find someone with an open mind to talk to, P.S. I'm no college boy, Grandpa!!!!
Nobody in Britain gives a damn about it anymore. We are all glad to be rid of it.
Love it that a Commie college boy in Canada thinks Brits in 2012 even 'think' about the 'British Empire'.
Haha you dopey cunt, you need to get a passport and travel and stop reading old reprints of Pravda. The average Brit today has no concept of 'Empire' any more than the average German has any concept of Nazism.
@LaughingGravy31 You make me laugh so hard with the "Commie College Boy in Canada" comment, even though I'm not communist, I'm a Liberal whom likes to think for themselves, not behave like an automaton propaganda robot like you!! Unlike you I like to look at both sides of the story, somewhere in the middle is the truth. What should I call you? Perhaps "Loyalist, Capitalist, British Prick, in the U.K.?" does that sound good to you? No? Oh,I forgot to mention, stop reading the London Rags,retard.
By the way you dopey Commie college boy, GERMANY was 'finished' by early 1945. Didn't stop around ONE MILLION Germans from being killed in the first four months of 1945 when the allied armies invaded German territory.
If you don't think that AT LEAST the same number of Japanese would have died in a land invasion or conventional bombing of the Japanese mainland instead of dropping the A-bombs.......then you must be a fucking idiot.
"" The British Empire is over mate , get over it, nobody gives a shit about self-righteous British Pricks anymore,""
And yet Queen Elizabeth II (presumably a 'self righteous British prick' in your mindset) is the head of state of YOUR country Canada and lots of people in Canada gave a shit when William and Kate visited Canada last year.
I bet that really burns your Commie heart doesn't it? You'd rather see statues of Stalin and Che Guevara all over Canada I suppose.
@LaughingGravy31 Trust me when I tell you that most Canadians would rather do away with this monarchy non-sense, just like Australia wants to and become a Democratic Republic. The English debt would be paid off if the British government had the balls to abolish the monarchy and confiscate the ridiculous wealth they have accumulated, Britain would become a Debt free country. Monarchies are relics of times long passed, they serve no useful purpose other than a photo-op for Loyalist Fanatics, LOL!
Most Canadians are PRO the Monarchy. It isn't even an issue. Canadians LOVE being in the Commonwealth. The only exceptions are Quebecois and Commie Cunts like you.
And the Australian referendum SUPPORTED the Monarchy. The Australian public majority voted to keep the Monarchy.
@LaughingGravy31 You seem to be obsessed with the CUNT word, and COMMIE, perhaps you have a hard on for COMMIE RUSSIAN CUNTS,because your hard-up and haven't got ANY in a while,Commie Cunts can be fun to party with, let loose you uptight English Bastard. The reason why Germany invaded Poland in 1939 was because the Fucken Allies gave 1/5th of German territory to poland in 1919 in the treaty of Versailles, Danzig is a German city you Fucken TOOL,not Polish, so you see there is 2 sides to a story.
@LaughingGravy31 No constructive criticism I see? Just a drunken footballer obsessed with the term "Commie Cunt", hahahaha, don't get in a brawl and hurt yourself in the pub Wanker, P.S. British Football Sucks, Deutschland Football Rules, when was the last time Britain won the world cup? Answer, I can't remember, I wasn't born yet, Haahaahaahaa!!!
WTF? I gave you PLENTY of "constructive criticism".
I told you that 1 million Germans died from Jan to May '45 and that was after Germany was 'finished'.
I told you that over 150,000 Japanese died at Okinawa and that if there were no A-bombs then many more Japanese would have died in a conventional bombing campaign or an allied land invasion.
Then there are all the people who were saved while under brutal Japanese occupation all over Asia.
See. I like Canada and I like Canadians. I don't go around making sweeping generalisation and insults about one country due to an individual You Tuber.
You, on the other hand, are a passportless prick who has never been anywhere and as soon as you engage in a foreign poster that you don't like you start ridiculing and insulting his entire country.
That is the hallmark of an untravelled cunt with idiotic prejudices and stereotypes about somewhere he has never been.
@LaughingGravy31 Listen Tommy,just drink your piss-warm beer and be off with you, go regurgitate your historical propaganda to someone whom gives a flying fuck, by the way CUNT I have been to England and France and Germany and Czechoslovakia,from my experience mainland Europeans are much nicer than Englishman,they don't swear like drunken sailors like the English Hooligans,and they're much nicer than Pricks like you,I would much rather talk to a German or Frenchman than some arrogant Englishman.
You haven't been anywhere abroad. You don't even own a passport.
It's hilarious that when you thought I was an American you came out with all sorts of stereotypical anti American comments and that that you know I'm an Englishman you come out with all sorts of stereotypical anti English comments.
You are a typical kid who only ever connects with foreigners over the internet. You have NEVER been outside Canada and you have NEVER met an Englishman.EVER!
@LaughingGravy31 Continued, even on vacation in Cuba I run into a-lot of Europeans, Germans, French and especially Englishman, I find that even on their vacations Englishman are usually very Vulgar and Rude and yes stereotypically Drunken most of the time, whereas Germans and French tend to be Happy Drunks, Englishman seem to be Loud and Angry Drunks, I can't figure out why?Maybe the all-inclusive resort was not giving them enough good liquor perhaps?Who the hell knows and who cares I stay away.
Do you want me to make a stupid stereotype that Canadians are all boring fuckers who keep pet beavers at home in their log cabins while freezing to death in their year long winters and cry their eyes out whenever they are mistaken for Americans?
I wouldn't do that coz I know that isn't true. It's a bullshite stereotype and nobody who has ever met a Canadian or been to Canada would ever think they are like that.
You've never been to England and never met an Englishman.
@LaughingGravy31 OHHH, BBRRRR the Frigid English, it was so warm in here, but I guess an Englishman is in the room? Is that why you guys need to go to Cuba on vacation, to melt your Frigid self-righteous personalities? Question, why does an Englishman need at least 5 feet of space around them?, Answer, because if you get any closer or touch them you will Freeze to Death!! HAHAHA Question, what did one arrogant self-righteous Englishman say to his masseuse? Answer,don't touch me,I'm English!!
When you thought I was American you were coming out with all sorts of anti American crap. Now I'm English you come out with all sorts of anti English crap.
The hilarious thing is that Americans and the English get on extremely well with Canadians and are Canada's closest allies and friends.
Too funny. America and England are CANADA'S CLOSEST ALLIES.
Enjoy 2012 when Canada celebrates the 200th anniversary of English success in the War of 1812.
@LaughingGravy31 continued.... you Fucken Tool, General MacArthur's estimated between 105,000-125,000 casualties for the invasion of Japan, General Marshall estimated about 70,000 casualties for the Invasion of Japan, Admiral Ernest King (whom hated British Pricks such as yourself) estimated between 31,000 and 41,000 casualties in the first 30 days, only Admiral Leahy predicted around 268,000 casualties, so as you can see none of the General staff thought that over a million Americans would die!
@LaughingGravy31 Continued... You make me Laugh so hard with the GOOD GUYS and BAD GUYS bullshit, are you from TEXAS? Because you sound like a BRAINWASHED Cowboy, NEWSFLASH, there are no good guys or bad guys in war, war is hell, plain and simple, the sooner you get over your American flag waving Blinkers, the more you will realize that the U.S. is not a SAINT, far from it. Yeah, the good guys put Japanese Americans in concentration camps in WW2, sold their property without their consent, LOL!!
You stupid cunt. I'm an Englishman. I'm not American you dopey fucker.
The Nazi regime were the BAD guys. This isn't opinion. It's FACT.
Trying to purposely eradicate all the Jews in Europe was not a 'good' thing. It was a 'bad' thing, you absolutely idiotic fool. There is not even a debate about this out in the real world.
@LaughingGravy31 Let me illuminate your Idiotic mind, you stupid CUNT, the reason why Japan attacked the U.S., Pearl Harbour was because the U.S. imposed sanctions and froze Japanese assets in U.S., that's pretty much a declaration of war you stupid cunt, when you push someone into a corner their gonna strike back you Anglo-Saxon Prick, the Japs were a challenge to U.S. supremacy in the Pacific and Asia, the U.S. lost all rights to innocence when they passed sanctions to curtail Japanese power!!
@LaughingGravy31 Your quote "except the Japanese didn't just attack and invade American territory. They also did the same to the Chinese" That's the whole point you stupid Brit-POP CUNT, what gives the U.S. the fucking right to get involved in matters between the Japs and the Chinese? Answer NOTHING, the U.S. and Britain like to stick their Holier Than Thou Noses in other peoples business when they feel that other EMPIRES (JAP) might be more powerful then their BRIT and U.S.A EMPIRES interests
If Britain had lost in 1940 or 1941 then the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic, the Mediterranean, North Africa and Middle East. Turkey would likely have joined the Axis and that would have been another area of advance for Barbarossa.
Without Britain, strategically the Soviet Union would have been finished and the Axis would have got bigger and more powerful.
@LaughingGravy31 keep sniffing glue dude. lol,..As early as 1940' the German casualties at sea were particularly heavy, with the sinking of one of the Kriegsmarine's two heavy cruisers, two of its six light cruisers, 10 of its 20 destroyers and six U-boats. Pls explanin how the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic when they couldn't even control the english channel on a sunny calm day on holiday.
@LaughingGravy31 "If Britain had lost in 1940 or 1941 then the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic,.." Your quote from your post, dude. The German navy in Jun of 1940 lost half it's surface fleet and got 'cockblocked' in Norway. Without Britain Germany navy would still be a puny two pocket battleships, two heavy cruisers, six light cruisers, 20 destroyers, 57 operational u-boats. pls keep sniffing glue if you think with a force as tiny as this could control the Atlantic.
So who WOULD have controlled the Atlantic then if Britain was out of it?
Without Britain the German U-boats alone could have controlled the Atlantic. They decimated British shipping as it was. The U-Boats sunk 11 million tons of British shipping. Germany would only have gotten stronger in the Atlantic if the Royal Navy were no longer a threat.
Then add the Italian navy and yep, the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic for sure without Britain in the war.
In Dec 1932, the Polish Cipher Bureau first broke Germany's military Enigma ciphers ( German Naval Code ) on July 25 1939, the Poles gave Enigma-decryption techniques and equipment to French and British military intelligence. Allied codebreakers from then on were able to decrypt german naval codes & messages before even the U-boat commanders recieved them and intercept german U-boats in the Atlantic.
@LaughingGravy31 hey dumbfuck Germany did not have 800 U-boats in 1940' or 1941' or anytime during ww2. The 800 lost U-boats was over the entire period of 1939-1945' ( six years ).
In begining of ww2 Germany had a grand total of just 56 U-boats, with only 46 of them operational.
German U-boats were used primarily against allied shipping convoys and never controled any of the Atlantic.
If Britain was out of the war in 1940/1941 the US Navy would still be the largest navy on the planet.
I'm not talking about 1940 or 1941. I said if Britain had been out of the war in by 1940 or 1941 then the Axis would have ended up controlling all of Europe, the Med, the Atlantic (at least the eastern portion of it) and strategically it would have been curtains for the Soviets.
Most likely other nations like Turkey would have joined the Axis.
You can't even comprehend what I'm arguing.
I'm talking about the FOLLOWING YEARS. Doh. The Axis would have grown stronger.
@LaughingGravy31 what part of the following does your brain not process-
In begining of ww2 1939' Germany had a grand total of just 56 U-boats, with only 46 of them operational .
On top of that Germany by Jun 1940' already had lost half it's surface fleet in Norway.
With the German naval code and enigma cipher machine in allied hands by 1939' the german navys future operations specifically the U-boat communications would allow the allies to intercept U-boats.
What part of ""If Britain had lost in 1940 or 1941" aren't you comprehending? I'm talking about a scenarion where Britain loses and the Axis grow stronger.
If Britain had lost the war or been nullified as a threat in 1940/41 then the Axis would have GROWN in strength and ADDED to their naval capacity. There would be the Italian Navy as well.
The Axis would have DEFINITELY controlled the eastern Atlantic at least and ALL of the Med.
@LaughingGravy31 lol,..ww2 started in 1939' dumbfuck with the German invasion of Poland. Nothing to do with Britain they didn't lift a finger. The Germans despite your senario still has puny navy a measly 56 u-boats only 46 of them are operational it's naval codes 'enigma' machine has already been handed over to the allies as early as 1939'( US & former U.K.Commonwealth).
lol,..Italian navy spent most of ww2 at anchor or sunk in port they had no radar, rarely went to sea.
""lol,..ww2 started in 1939' dumbfuck with the German invasion of Poland. Nothing to do with Britain they didn't lift a finger.""
Really? The first U-boat sunk by the British was in September 1939, you ignorant tool.
There was a sea war going on right from September 1939.
It wasn't Britain's fault they didn't have a big enough or powerful enough army to deal with the Germans but at least they declared war on Germany and didn't ignore it or join them like most other countries.
""lol,..Italian navy spent most of ww2 at anchor or sunk in port they had no radar, rarely went to sea.""
Incorrect. In fact the Italian Navy played a part in the Battle of The Atlantic. The Regia Marina was based in Bordeaux and they even had submarines employed in the Atlantic (over 30 submarines), sinking over 100 allied ships, totalling half a million tons.
@LaughingGravy31" Incorrect. In fact the Italian Navy played a part in the Battle of The Atlantic. The Regia Marina was based in Bordeaux and they even had submarines employed in the Atlantic (over 30 submarines), sinking over 100 allied ships, totalling half a million tons."
lol,.. The US alone in 1943' produced approx. eleven and half million tons of shipping. ( 11,448,360 tons )
""lol,.. The US alone in 1943' produced approx. eleven and half million tons of shipping.""
And had to fight a war against Japan in the Pacific and couldn't have done much in the eastern Atlantic without the Royal Navy.
The AXIS would have controlled the eastern Atlantic at least without Great Britain still in the war and there wouldn't have been much the Americans could have done in the eastern Atlantic and certainly nothing in the Med or North Africa.Britain's role was crucial.
You never explained to me how a code breaker sitting on his arse in Bletchley Park can managed to stop a German U-boat torpedo some 1,000 miles away. Please tell me how this is possible.
And please tell me how the Germans managed to sink 11 million tons of British shipping, despite these 'code breakers'???
Code breakers? Code breakers? They didn't even know the Battle of The Bulge was going to happen. LOL.
@LaughingGravy31 lol, German U-boats in the Atlantic recieved encrypted instructions & directions by wireless communications at sea from europe regarding the route of allied convoys. The allies intercepted these encrypted instructions through a captured enigma machine & codebooks - all this was run through Bletchley Park & the decoded messages (intelligence) was called ( Ultra ) allied convoys at sea could be re-directed away from likely u-boat locations & routes.
@LaughingGravy31 again, dumbfuck. Enigma ( naval ) type allowed the majority of allied shipping to be redirected away from german u-boats. The german U-boats sunk too little tonnage despite your fantasy.
Production figures are not that easy to find but a few one
Canada : produced 354 cargo ships of 10000 tons.
USA: in 1943 alone produced: 11448360 tons of ships.
It's not a 'fantasy' to state that if Britain was out of the war by 1940/41 then the Axis would have grown stronger and would have dominated the Med, North Africa/Middle East and the eastern Atlantic.
It's fvcking clear logic, you idiot.
No Britain = a STRONGER Axis.
With Britain out of the war the USA could have done fvck all alone from 3,000 miles away. The Soviets would likely have lost.
@fluffy1931 Do you have any idea how an enigma machine works? The rotors are changed every day. yes, the Allies had captured enigma machines, but once the germans suspected the breach, they went to a 4 rotor system and bletchley park fell silent for a period of months in 1943. The keys are only good for so long, after that, you cant break the code anymore.
@akulaknight lol,. longest "darkness" period German Navy's Enigma machine, which could not be deciphered for 4 years btwn 1937-1941.
..,and yes those new Enigma (TRITON), upgraded Enigma machines
On Oct 30,1942 crewmen from HMS Petard salvaged Enigma material from a foundering U-559. This material allowed the codebreakers to break TRITON - a feat credited to Alan Turing. By Dec1942, Enigma decrypts were again disclosing U-patrol positions, and shipping losses declined dramatically once more.
@akulaknight Feb 2 1942, the Kriegsmarine (German Navy) suddenly introduced a new version of the Enigma machine. The M4 used exclusively by the U-Boot division of the German Navy had 4 wheels instead of the usual 3.
@LaughingGravy31 the german U-boats enjoyed 2 periods of success.
During the second happy time, Axis submarines sank 609 ships totaling 3.1 million tons for the loss of only 22 U-boats. This was roughly one quarter of all shipping sunk by U-boats during the entire Second World War.
Between Sept'42 and May 1945 some 43,526 allied ships ploughed the North Atlantic shipping lanes. The U-Boats sent some 272 to a watery grave. That left 99.4% afloat and reaching their destinations intact.
""With the German naval code and enigma cipher machine in allied hands by 1939' the german navys future operations specifically the U-boat communications would allow the allies to intercept U-boats.""
Haha, the Germans were able to sink ELEVEN MILLION TONS of British shipping despite the Enigma code breakers. The code breakers did NOT stop the Germans from sinking nearly 4,000 British vessels.
And by the way, with no Britain in the war, what the fvck could the US navy had done in the Atlantic? Not very much, especially in the eastern part of the Atlantic.
@haiherosner Exactly opposite was true! "On 14 December, Franz Halder and Günther von Kluge finally gave permission for a limited withdrawal to the west of the Oka river, without Hitler's approval". Hitler interfered only on Dec 20 when danger of encirclement passed.
"Despite the Soviets' best efforts, the Luftwaffe had contributed enormously to the survival of Army Group Center. Between the 17 December and 22 December the Luftwaffe destroyed 299 motor vehicles and 23 tanks.
""by 1943 Russians were irritated by allies, when will you attack?""
And what were the Soviets doing in 1940 and early 1941? Being friends with Hitler and drinking vodka with him.
What did Soviet Union offer during the Battle of Britain and the Blitz? A big fat NOTHING. The Soviets were smiling and laughing when it looked that Nazi Germany was about to invade Britain.
in germany production of tanks were turned over to private manufactures in the usa tanks were produced in automotive factories. the complex design of most german tanks was also a drawback as was the time to produce just one tiger tank 300,000 man hours for just one tiger.german tanks were great machines.but the germans should have stuck to a simple design and produce in large numbers the pz 4 was a balanced tank that would be my first choice
they mass produced panzer IV between 1943/44 the panzer IV chassis were mass produced and it was used for dozens of designs.
Panzer IV was the backbone of panzer divisions
In 1943 3000 panzer IV and 1768 PANTHERS and 1335 TIGERS were produced in germany.
The chassis of panzer IV were used to JAGDPANZER IV,NASHORN(tank destroyer), STUG IV assault gun, HUMMEL and BRUMMBAR were 150mm howitzer(self propelled gun).
More than 10500 panzer IV chassis were built during war
@gtk4158a stupid dumbhead, allied tanks were just as expensive, the germans were lonely, and forced to produce differant stuff (fighters vessels AA guns other tanks) if they were capeble they wouldve produced them in thousands, what an entire countrys economy couldnt afford a tank? IS2's were more expensive and they got massively fielded, why? russia is a big country that kills its massive poopulace for money and production. get it?
@ssmusic214 yeah but why germany made them in smaller numbers? because they had a poor economy and they were on their own, the T34 was historys 2nd most produced tank because russia is a gigantic rich country you idiot it depends on the country not the tanks price thats called common sense btw even the luftwaffe was small despite not-so-expensive planes were produced why? as i said earlier germany is a lonely small country not a big, rich one. USE YOUR BRAIN.
@dividednation44 Brainless Idiot without a clue! USSR was broke and starving for most of it's history! 50 000 T-34s were produced because it was SIMPLE DESIGN easy to produce.
And Germans produced so little because Hitler was totally incompetent amateur obsessed with creating futuristic "super weapons", who wasted his country scarce resourced on expensive useless toys: Tigers, Me-262, Me-163, V-2, Bismark, Tirpitz......
@olentattimies No they weren't. It took 350 000 man hours to produce a single Tiger. Less than 1800 Tigers and King Tigers were produced. Many never made it to battlefield due to huge mechanical and logistical problems. 99% WWII of fighting men never got to see a Tiger. Their effect in overall war effort was negligible.
@olentattimies Tigers were heavily depended on the terrain and the ground. They performed well only in the South of Russia. 1st use of Tigers ever was near Leningrad in 1942. Total disaster! All got stuck in the mud and lost. 1 captured in working condition. Germans never used Tigers in the Northern Parts of Russia again.
They used some kind of new explosive, (((some kind of gas))), & and there whas somekind of foam to kill the vlames.... They also used it on rocketfighters,..
btw... I dont really know how they called the explosive's nor gun...
btw...they managed it to make metal which could resist intense heat...
ask the USA...
after the war the allies gettered all the vintages from germany...
also this metal, they were not imidiatly using this, because there was something in the metal which the USA used as explosive... so they first thought that it was a trick!!!
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wolawl1 2 weeks ago
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wolawl1 2 weeks ago
hihi kuckt auf mich bin n hamster
ColbySalinaxt320 2 weeks ago
Great video. Some very strange comments below which don't seem to be about the content of this but only about crude generalisations of different nationalities that I don't recognise.
Back to the video which confirms that the Germans had better armour and could pick off Allied armour at longer range but had very limited supply of men and machinery. IT ended up being a numbers game.
Plorticus 2 weeks ago
So far, Germany tank is No.1
minhtranthong 4 weeks ago 2
The German BND is the renamed 3rd Reich GESTAPO.The BND had organized the delegate Scheuermann of our county to visit or home.To allow him to personally experience how my brother and our patents had been tortured.The BND continued to torture my brother.He was assassinated on July 11th2009.Half a year after the assassination of my brother the CDU delegate Mappus from our district town Pforzheim was made prime minister of the German land of Baden Würtemberg
The CDU is the ruling party in Germany
wwwtotalitaerde 1 month ago
thats a beautiful tiger tank
PanzersTigerDivision 2 months ago
The only thing i regret that we germans did in the East was to treat the people under the oppression of Stalin as Untermensch. Russians, Ukranians, the baltic states shared a long and "brother" like history with German. It was an Russian Czar that saved Fredrich Prussia, and Katarina the Great was German.
People speak about Nazi, but Stalins Communism was far worse.
himmelsfaust 3 months ago
Comment removed
gotmituns 3 months ago
If I'm not mistaken they figured out Whittmann was killed by a Canadian anti-tank gun. Ironic being he prided himself not so much on afv kills but anti tank gun kills.
assdickmkgee 4 months ago
Operation Goodwood cost the British 450-500 tanks, it was a disaster because the German Tiger and Panther could shoot up the Shermans at long range with their 88mm and 75mm longbarrel guns, 2000-3000 metres, whereas the Shermans had to get within 700 metres to stand a chance. Not very good odds at all for the Brits and Americans.
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner So what? Germans still lost. And LOST BIG. German Counter attack to re-take Caen failed. And resistance collapsed in 2 days and Caen was secured. There are many other ways to destroy or disable the tank other than sending another tank against it.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 The allied tanks were no match for German Panzers, they had to resort to massive air superiority to win. Your also ignoring the fact that the Russians did most of the hard fighting on the Eastern front, they had better tanks then the allies, that could match the Germans, example T-34, KV-1, IS-1, IS-2 etc, The Germans had 75% of their army, tanks, airforce on the Eastern front, the U.S. and Britain had it easy mate, by 1943 Russians were irritated by allies, when will you attack?
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner And you think Soviets didn't have to "resort to numerical superiority"? Practically ALL of Soviet victories were won by simply pouring fresh forces into battle faster than Germans could kill them. NONE of Soviet tanks were match to Tiger or Panther either. And 75% is a myth.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 You seem so bitter, of course the Soviets had to resort to numerical superiority to beat the Germans, the point is that they faced the brunt of German might and fought it to a standstill, while the allies dragged their feet until 1944 when they finally attacked because they knew the Wehrmacht was sufficiently weakened and exhausted from the Russian front. The Russians were highly suspicious that the west wanted them and the German's to exhaust themselves like two heavy-weight boxers.
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner Whether you think I am "bitter" or not is absolutely irrelevant. Soviet methods of fighting are unquestionable. You would be very bitter to be piece of cannon fodder Stalin was throwing into battle.
And Soviet "suspicions" are irrelevant either. Soviets themselves couldn't even ever dream of accomplishing anything remotely approaching cross ocean amphibious invention. And Stalin's methods of throwing away millions of poorly trained soldiers not acceptable for Western Allies.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 My whole point is that , had the Germans not faced a 2 front war, the allies would have had quite an impossible task at hand landing at Normandy. Could you imagine the entire might of the German war machine being available in France waiting for the allies to attack, to counter it? Your dismissing how much the West owes to the Soviets for softening up the Wehrmacht for them to succed in 1944, cannon fodder or not, they were brave. Without the Soviets, the U.S. and Britain, no chance!
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner And Soviets always dismissing how much they owe to the West. Conveniently forgetting that until US entered the war USSR suffered greatest military disaster ever recorded on history. And if US wouldn't keep Japan occupied with fighting Pacific War there is absolute ZERO chance of USSR surviving combined assault from both East and West.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 Your forgetting that the Soviets launched a ferocious counter-attack against German army group centre in front of Moscow in Dec,5th 1941, without any help from U.S.A. , and managed to push the Germans back nearly 100 miles towards Smolensk. So, the so-called "DISASTER" was averted without any U.S. and Brit help, thanks to the Russian fighting spirit, which contradicts what you said about the U.S.S.R. not winning until the U.S. helped them. Remember the U.S. was neutral until DEC/41!
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner There was nothing "ferocious" about Moscow 1941 counter attack against frozen, sick, out of ammo, out of fuel German troops (thanks to enormous Hitler's blunder) by fresh Soviet troops transferred from Siberia as soon as Soviets found out That Japs are not going to attack USSR. And it was 100 kilometers, not miles. And in 1942 Soviets suffered another great disaster. And 5 million POW surrendering to Germans is hardly indication of "great fighting spirit".
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 The Russian counter-offensive in DEC/1941 created a bulge anywhere from 62-150 miles or 100-250 km deep, so my comment of pushed back 100 miles is conservative, not inaccurate as you claim. You seem to be quite dismissive of Soviet achievements, it was a ferocious battle, because at the end of it between 400,000-480,000 casualties were suffered by Germans and Soviets were higher 650,000-850,000 depending on sources, don't make excuses for the Wehrmacht being sick(cold) and out of amo
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner 100 Km figure comes from EVERY Soviet history book I ever studied. Casualties never accurately estimated (up to 2.5 Million for Soviets). Soviets never counted "Folks Army" (civilians with 3 days of military training thrown in to battle to be slaughtered). German army was totally unprepared to fight Russian Winter war 1941 Coldest and Earliest on record. German rear Supply vehicles using synthetic Gasoline that freezes at -40C were totally paralyzed.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 Just because the Wehrmacht was silly enough not to be prepared for winter warfare, does not excuse the fact that they got whipped outside of Moscow. Your just trying to diminish the Soviet achievements by giving the Germans a-lot of excuses as to why they failed. A Crutch is no excuse for having lost a battle, when it is your own fault for crippling yourself by not preparing or having the foresight of a possible winter combat conditions, Period! :D
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner That giant blunder had nothing to with Wehrmacht but with Hitler imagining himself great military and strategic genius. Just like Stalin did.
And I am not "diminishing" anybody's achievements. Just your opinion of "fierceness" of the battle. It doesn't take too much fierceness to push away 100km frozen, sick, starving, army out of amo, food, winter clothing, gasoline and everything else you can name.
And only few months later Soviets suffered another great military disaster.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 Hitler order a directive, "Not one step back", with the threat of death to anyone whom disobeyed, this saved the Wehrmacht Army Group Centre from total destruction. So although Hitler and the Wehrmacht did blunder with unpreparedness for winter war, Hitler's directive did save Army Group Centre from an imminent disaster. Therefore Army group Centre put up a stiff and fierce resistance to Soviet "FIERCE" counterattack, hence tremendous casualties. Your trying to diminish Soviet succes
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner Nonsense! Stalin was issuing "Not one step back" in every battle. That only helped Germans to wipe out millions of Soviet solders. Same happened with Hitler.
After fall of Smolensk in August 1941 there was NOTING standing between Germans and Moscow. Hitler could have had his victory parade on Red Square. Instead he detached his most powerful tank divisions North toward Leningrad and South to Ukraine against advise of his Generals biting more than he could chew.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 You said after fall of Smolensk in August 1941, there was nothing standing between Hitler and Moscow, that's false! Standing in the way of Army Group Centre was the Russian 19th, 20th, 24th, 32nd, 5th, 16th, 43rd,49th,and 30th Armies. There was also the battle of Orel on Oct/3rd, battle of Bryansk on OCT/6th, and battle of Vyazma on Oct/10th, although the Russians lost huge in Bryansk and Vyazma pocket encirclements, with over 150,000 killed in Vyazma alone, Russians had reserves!
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner Hallooo.... Look at the map. Bryansk and Orel are way south, near Ukraine. Nowhere near Moscow or Smolensk. And you are talking about October. 3 month after Russian collapse. And even than all those "Armies" and "reserves" were Stalin's conscripted cannon fodder. Nowhere remotely resembling regular troops led by completely inexperienced commanders.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 I can see that it's a waste of my time talking to you, the fact is there was plenty of Russian strength between Smolensk and Moscow, where the hell do you think Vyazma is? Don't forget to wave your Union Jack flag, you pompous British fool, the fact is without Russia, Britain has no chance, end of story, good bye!
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner Idiot! "British fool"?
I've been to Vyazma and all those places many times. I Served in SOVIET ARMY in 1970-71 under very officers who fought at battle of Moscow. My uncle was killed near Leningrad in the fall of 1941. Soviets made him "lieutenant" in "peoples army" after 3 days of military training just because he was the only one in the group with higher education. Germans wiped them out in minutes.
Now that you REALLY MADE TOTAL IDIOT OF YOURSELF we can say good bye.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
@ssmusic214 For a Russian citizen you don't seem to have too much confidence in Russian achievements in WW2, despite tremendous odds, and huge setbacks against Germans, they succeeded to save their country, yet your attitude seems to be that they were lucky to win without the Western help. You should have more pride in your country's achievements, rather than trying to diminish your people's bravery and courage in Dec/1941, peace dude! Goodbye.
haiherosner 5 months ago
@haiherosner As former USSR citizen I can tell the difference between reality and propaganda fairy tales and know from my own experience who was "lucky" and why.
ssmusic214 5 months ago 9
@haiherosner
""the fact is without Russia, Britain has no chance, end of story, good bye""
True. Very true. But the REVERSE is also true. Without Britain stiol in the war then Soviet Union would have been beaten by the Axis.
Do not forget that Germany had over 1 million troops stationed in the west in 1941, from Norway, down through the Med and into North Africa.
Germany also used up a lot of resources for the Battle of The Atlantic and the RAF strategic bombing campaigns in Germany etc.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@haiherosner
You want to talk about Soviet Union in WW2? Soviet Union stole half of Poland and invaded Finland in 1939.
Soviet Union was sipping vodka with Hitler from 1939 to 1941 and didn't even lift a finger to help Great Britain when Britain was having problems in 1940. Where did Soviet Union help Britain in 1940? NOWHERE.
Communist Soviet Union was as bad as Nazi Germany and Stalin was an evil dictator. The Soviets didn't care about anybody else in WW2, only themselves.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago 28
@LaughingGravy31 Brittain helped the mensheviks in the civil war so it's quite understandable that the USSR didnt want to spill its own blood to help their natural enemy.. In my point, Stalin would be more than happy to see England and Germany kill each other. He would then just roll his army and conquer Europe without resistance
DrN0s 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 Right on
20YrBillionaire 1 month ago
@LaughingGravy31
"..A long and bloody Russian Civil War ensued between the Reds and the Whites, starting in 1917 and ending in 1923. It included foreign intervention and the famine of 1921, which killed about five million.."
"..The Allied intervention was a multi-national military expedition launched in 1918 during World War I which continued into the Russian Civil War. Its operations included forces from 14 nations and were conducted over a vast territory..."
Do u need more?
UrielNS 1 month ago
@UrielNS
""Do u need more?""
I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are replying to or what your point even is.
LaughingGravy31 1 month ago
@LaughingGravy31 Mr Hippocrite, the reverse is true as well,the west was sipping Vodka with Uncle Joseph Stalin from 1941-45 the biggest mass murderer of all time,he killed 30 million of his own people,but the British and The American's looked the other way even though he invaded Finland in 1939-40,they did not declare war on Russia. You want even more hippocrisy? While Germany and Russia Invaded Poland in 1939, Britain declared war on Germany,BUT not on RUSSIA, Britain did not care Hippocrite!
hailherrosner 4 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
You cannot argue the fact that Britain actually WENT TO WAR for another country, when they could have easily stood by and did nothing or even joined Hitler.
Britain declared war of put itself in the shit becuase ANOTHER COUNTRY was invaded.
The Soviet Union didn't give a shit about any country except their own. They just fought to defend themselves after they were invaded and had no interest in helping out anybody else.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 "good" and "bad" is made by winning or loosing. we talk about the great roman empire because they won (slaves, and killing for entertament) the nazis lost so theyre bad, soviets lost the cold war. so they are bad too, cose the winners allways control the media. if the soviets would have won we would talk about the facist capitalists testing their bombs on helpless civillians (what they did) ur opinion is right but please dont come with good or bad...
061323980 3 weeks ago
@061323980
"""good" and "bad" is made by winning or loosing.""
Not quite true.
EVERYBODY accepts Nazi Germany was 'bad'. Their idologies were not for the 'good' of the world.
They were the 'bad guys' and it wasn't becuase they lost. It was becuase they were 'bad', especially when the world found out about the Holocaust etc.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 err.. nope if germany would have won you would talk about the great german empire or simply die... and what do you mean their "idologies" were bad for the world? slavery was really nothing new and killing because of religion is nearly normal the only reason we talk about the bad evil germany is because the winning forces want the focus on that so no one talks about their evil behavior im not everybody but im someone and i dont accept your opinion
061323980 3 weeks ago
@061323980
""and what do you mean their "idologies" were bad for the world?""
OMG.You don't think deliberate and systematic eradication/extermination of specific races and peoples was a 'bad' thing?
Sounds like you are a closest Nazi.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 u even realize that good and bad is make belive? something made up by humans to control others? u dont seem to understand that since we exist we enslave or kill other humans... the nazis werent "more" bad as any other human being a human is a human no matter what he does we are just like animals.. do you call animals "bad" because they do brutal and sometimes extremly cruel stuff even to their own species?
061323980 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 there is no difference between france and germany.. both just some humans.. there is no france and there is no germany.. we just made it up to keep control jeez
061323980 3 weeks ago
@061323980 in human history every few years and in every other group other rules and other opinions of what is good and what is evil were made up.. i dont think the nazis thought evil about themselves.. from todays point the nazis maybe were evil BUT no one knows what the leading group (the winner of ww3) in future will think.. so the whole thing is pointless without any truth in it because truth is static and cant change..
061323980 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 whoops made a mistake in my last comment (talked to myself instead of you (sry bout that) and a second (maybe) mistake.. if you belive in religion just ignore everything i said because i cant prove you wrong in that point and any conversation would be pointless (in that case again: sorry bout that)
061323980 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 History is written by the Victor's, whether you accept this or not is irrelevant because that's how it is in the real world, if the U.S. had lost WW2 they would have been held responsible for war crimes for dropping the Nuke bombs on Japan, called crimes against humanity (civillians) it is documented fact that American generals were afraid of being charged with war crimes, and for dropping bombs on German civillian populations non-military targets, the West is a huge Hippocricy!
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
Yes and sometimes the victors are the GOOD guys.
In WW2, the Axis, particularly Nazi Germany and Japan were the BAD guys.
FACT...whether you like it or not.
The A-bombs ENDED the war and saved MILLIONS of lives.
FACT.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 The A-bombs did not save millions of lives that's a total myth created by the Truman administration to justify using The Bomb on the Yellow People as an experiment to see how much damage it can do, and to show Russia, do not F***K with us, the USA!! Japan was finished militarily, there were no more military targets left in Japan of any significance, the U.S. could have annihlated Japan with Conventional weapons and Invasion of mainland, don't believe the propaganda crap from USA
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
It's a widely held historical opinion that if the A-bombs were not dropped then FAR MORE people would have been killed in the long run.
The battle of Okinawa where over 150,000 Japanese people died PROVED that the Japanese were not going to give up easily.
The A bombs completely obliterated their will to fight on.. Without them an allied invasion of the Japanese mainland would have happened or a massive conventional bombing campaign that would have killed even more.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
"" the U.S. could have annihlated Japan with Conventional weapons and Invasion of mainland,""
Hahaha that's the point you idiot. FAR MORE people would have been killed if not for the A-bombs.
The conventional bombings of Japan killed 3 times as many Japanese as the A-bombs did.
If the A-Bombs were not dropped then many many more conventional raids on Japan would have taken place and perhaps an actual land invasion.
We all know what happened at Okinawa = 150,000 dead Japanese
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 continued....No, you stupid cunt, millions of people would not have died if the U.S. invaded the mainland of Japan, that was just good propaganda, Japan was militarily finished, the real reason why the A-Bomb was dropped was to speed up the defeat process before the Russians gained a significant foothold in Asia, the Russians were advancing rapidly and would have been an ominous threat to U.S. interests in the region,the less Jap territory they take the better for U.S. interests
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
You silly cunt.
150,000 Japanese died at Okinawa and showed NO SIGN of surrendering.
80,000 Japanese died fighting the Soviets in Manchuria.
There is NO WAY the Japanese would have surrendered like that if the A-bombs were not dropped. NO WAY whatsoever.
The A-bombs ended the Pacific War within one week, not the least all those people in the Japanese occupied territories and POWS who were being tortured and starved to death.
The A -Bombs actually SAVED more lives.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 You silly fool,were you concerned with Japanese casualties or American casualties? Because I can tell you for certain that the Americans were only concerned with U.S. casualties, they couldn't give a flying fuck if ten million Japanese died,only how many U.S. marines and Army and Navy,nothing else. It has been proven that the U.S. could have taken the Jap mainland with minimum casualties,the Jap airforce was non-existent after Okinawa,the A bombs beat the Russians to the punch.
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
"You silly fool,were you concerned with Japanese casualties or American casualties?""
BOTH...you stupid ignorant CUNT!
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE COMMIE.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 Mate,calling me names like Commie Commie, show how immature you are and the fact that you seem to like to use the derogatory term CUNT an awful lot when you disagree with someone, tells me you need to get some!!:D Stick to the topic at hand,since you called me cunt, I called you cunt in return. I was merely playing the Devil's Advocate to educate you that there are always two sides to a story,the world is not Black and White,nor is it Good or Bad,empires go to war for interests.
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
""calling me names like Commie Commie, show how immature you are""
Says the idiot who said to me earlier (and I quote):
"you stupid Brit-POP CUNT"
So let me get this straight, hailherrosner, calling me "Brit-POP CUNT" isn't immature but me calling you a "Commie" is immature??
Are you living in the real fucking world or not, kid?
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
How can ANYBODY possibly talk reason, sense and mature logic to a childish commie fuckwit like you?
Again, please fuck off and kill yourself you idiotic idealistic maroon.
Grow up and stop acting like a dopey college boy.
Oh wait....................
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 The British Empire is over mate , get over it, nobody gives a shit about self-righteous British Pricks anymore, your merely a U.S. puppet at best, like Justin Sullivan sings in New Model Army, your the 51st State of America, LOL. Anyhow I can't say it has been a pleasure talking to a biased one sided person whom only regurgitates the American or British point of view of history, hopefully I will find someone with an open mind to talk to, P.S. I'm no college boy, Grandpa!!!!
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
LOL, I never mentioned the 'British Empire'.
Nobody in Britain gives a damn about it anymore. We are all glad to be rid of it.
Love it that a Commie college boy in Canada thinks Brits in 2012 even 'think' about the 'British Empire'.
Haha you dopey cunt, you need to get a passport and travel and stop reading old reprints of Pravda. The average Brit today has no concept of 'Empire' any more than the average German has any concept of Nazism.
Still, a kid like you is too dumb.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 You make me laugh so hard with the "Commie College Boy in Canada" comment, even though I'm not communist, I'm a Liberal whom likes to think for themselves, not behave like an automaton propaganda robot like you!! Unlike you I like to look at both sides of the story, somewhere in the middle is the truth. What should I call you? Perhaps "Loyalist, Capitalist, British Prick, in the U.K.?" does that sound good to you? No? Oh,I forgot to mention, stop reading the London Rags,retard.
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
Commie Canadian College boy idiot. Please just fuck off and die.
Failing that, go get yourself a passport and travel.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
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LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
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@hailherrosner
By the way you dopey Commie college boy, GERMANY was 'finished' by early 1945. Didn't stop around ONE MILLION Germans from being killed in the first four months of 1945 when the allied armies invaded German territory.
If you don't think that AT LEAST the same number of Japanese would have died in a land invasion or conventional bombing of the Japanese mainland instead of dropping the A-bombs.......then you must be a fucking idiot.
150,000 plus died at Okinawa alone.
Ignoramus!
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
"" The British Empire is over mate , get over it, nobody gives a shit about self-righteous British Pricks anymore,""
And yet Queen Elizabeth II (presumably a 'self righteous British prick' in your mindset) is the head of state of YOUR country Canada and lots of people in Canada gave a shit when William and Kate visited Canada last year.
I bet that really burns your Commie heart doesn't it? You'd rather see statues of Stalin and Che Guevara all over Canada I suppose.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 Trust me when I tell you that most Canadians would rather do away with this monarchy non-sense, just like Australia wants to and become a Democratic Republic. The English debt would be paid off if the British government had the balls to abolish the monarchy and confiscate the ridiculous wealth they have accumulated, Britain would become a Debt free country. Monarchies are relics of times long passed, they serve no useful purpose other than a photo-op for Loyalist Fanatics, LOL!
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
Most Canadians are PRO the Monarchy. It isn't even an issue. Canadians LOVE being in the Commonwealth. The only exceptions are Quebecois and Commie Cunts like you.
And the Australian referendum SUPPORTED the Monarchy. The Australian public majority voted to keep the Monarchy.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
""Monarchies are relics of times long passed""
So is Communism. It doesn't work. Unlike Communism though, the Monarchy doesn't harm anybody and it actually brings money into the country.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
"" It has been proven that the U.S. could have taken the Jap mainland with minimum casualties,""
Hahaha, you stupid idiotic Commie cunt.
The Battle of Okinawa alone cost over 150,000 deaths and that was just an island and not even the Japanese homeland.
Minimum casualties? What comic books do YOU read then?
More Japanese people were killed taking Okinawa than at Hiroshima.
Oh and by the way the A-bombs stopped WW3 from happening.
Twat.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 You seem to be obsessed with the CUNT word, and COMMIE, perhaps you have a hard on for COMMIE RUSSIAN CUNTS,because your hard-up and haven't got ANY in a while,Commie Cunts can be fun to party with, let loose you uptight English Bastard. The reason why Germany invaded Poland in 1939 was because the Fucken Allies gave 1/5th of German territory to poland in 1919 in the treaty of Versailles, Danzig is a German city you Fucken TOOL,not Polish, so you see there is 2 sides to a story.
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
""You seem to be obsessed with the CUNT word, and COMMIE""
Yes because you ARE a cunt and a COMMIE. I'm describing YOU because that's what YOU are.
You need to get a passport, get out, travel and stop coming out with stupid idiotic nationalist stereotypes.
Notice I don't make any stereotypes about Canadians?
Uptight? LOL, clearly you've never been to an English pub or football game? Uptight? LMAO.
Get yourself a passport and TRAVEL you Commie cunt.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 No constructive criticism I see? Just a drunken footballer obsessed with the term "Commie Cunt", hahahaha, don't get in a brawl and hurt yourself in the pub Wanker, P.S. British Football Sucks, Deutschland Football Rules, when was the last time Britain won the world cup? Answer, I can't remember, I wasn't born yet, Haahaahaahaa!!!
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
"when was the last time Britain won the world cup?""
'Britain' doesn't compete in the 'World Cup you idiot. Don't you know anything?
Both Liverpool and Manchester United have been Champs of Europe in this last decade. When was the last time a German club was Champion of Europe?
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
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LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
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@hailherrosner
"No constructive criticism I see"
WTF? I gave you PLENTY of "constructive criticism".
I told you that 1 million Germans died from Jan to May '45 and that was after Germany was 'finished'.
I told you that over 150,000 Japanese died at Okinawa and that if there were no A-bombs then many more Japanese would have died in a conventional bombing campaign or an allied land invasion.
Then there are all the people who were saved while under brutal Japanese occupation all over Asia.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
See. I like Canada and I like Canadians. I don't go around making sweeping generalisation and insults about one country due to an individual You Tuber.
You, on the other hand, are a passportless prick who has never been anywhere and as soon as you engage in a foreign poster that you don't like you start ridiculing and insulting his entire country.
That is the hallmark of an untravelled cunt with idiotic prejudices and stereotypes about somewhere he has never been.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
""drunken footballer""
Way to go with an ancient English stereotype that is 20 years out of date.
You really haven't been outside Canada, have you, kid?
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 Listen Tommy,just drink your piss-warm beer and be off with you, go regurgitate your historical propaganda to someone whom gives a flying fuck, by the way CUNT I have been to England and France and Germany and Czechoslovakia,from my experience mainland Europeans are much nicer than Englishman,they don't swear like drunken sailors like the English Hooligans,and they're much nicer than Pricks like you,I would much rather talk to a German or Frenchman than some arrogant Englishman.
hailherrosner 2 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
You haven't been anywhere abroad. You don't even own a passport.
It's hilarious that when you thought I was an American you came out with all sorts of stereotypical anti American comments and that that you know I'm an Englishman you come out with all sorts of stereotypical anti English comments.
You are a typical kid who only ever connects with foreigners over the internet. You have NEVER been outside Canada and you have NEVER met an Englishman.EVER!
LaughingGravy31 2 weeks ago
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@hailherrosner
""piss-warm beer""
Haha, see I was right. You have never been here.
No 'piss warm' beer is ever served in English pubs. It doesn't exist. It's a false stereotype made up by some clown.
We don't even drink ale 'warm'. It's actually served just cooler than room temperature or slightly chilled.
Way to put your foot in it. What next, we all go around saying "pip pip cheerio my good man"?
You are fvcking hilariously stupid.
LaughingGravy31 2 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 Continued, even on vacation in Cuba I run into a-lot of Europeans, Germans, French and especially Englishman, I find that even on their vacations Englishman are usually very Vulgar and Rude and yes stereotypically Drunken most of the time, whereas Germans and French tend to be Happy Drunks, Englishman seem to be Loud and Angry Drunks, I can't figure out why?Maybe the all-inclusive resort was not giving them enough good liquor perhaps?Who the hell knows and who cares I stay away.
hailherrosner 2 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
Do you want me to make a stupid stereotype that Canadians are all boring fuckers who keep pet beavers at home in their log cabins while freezing to death in their year long winters and cry their eyes out whenever they are mistaken for Americans?
I wouldn't do that coz I know that isn't true. It's a bullshite stereotype and nobody who has ever met a Canadian or been to Canada would ever think they are like that.
You've never been to England and never met an Englishman.
FACT!
LaughingGravy31 2 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 OHHH, BBRRRR the Frigid English, it was so warm in here, but I guess an Englishman is in the room? Is that why you guys need to go to Cuba on vacation, to melt your Frigid self-righteous personalities? Question, why does an Englishman need at least 5 feet of space around them?, Answer, because if you get any closer or touch them you will Freeze to Death!! HAHAHA Question, what did one arrogant self-righteous Englishman say to his masseuse? Answer,don't touch me,I'm English!!
hailherrosner 2 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
You're pathetic.
When you thought I was American you were coming out with all sorts of anti American crap. Now I'm English you come out with all sorts of anti English crap.
The hilarious thing is that Americans and the English get on extremely well with Canadians and are Canada's closest allies and friends.
Too funny. America and England are CANADA'S CLOSEST ALLIES.
Enjoy 2012 when Canada celebrates the 200th anniversary of English success in the War of 1812.
LaughingGravy31 2 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 continued.... you Fucken Tool, General MacArthur's estimated between 105,000-125,000 casualties for the invasion of Japan, General Marshall estimated about 70,000 casualties for the Invasion of Japan, Admiral Ernest King (whom hated British Pricks such as yourself) estimated between 31,000 and 41,000 casualties in the first 30 days, only Admiral Leahy predicted around 268,000 casualties, so as you can see none of the General staff thought that over a million Americans would die!
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
Haha you fucking stupid idiot.
I didn't talk about just 'American' deaths you tit.
I talked about JAPANESE deaths. Why can't you grasp that simply concept?
More JAPANESE people would have died if the A-bombs weren't dropped.
Over 150,000 of them were killed during the battle of Okinawa alone.
1 million Germans died during the last few months of the war after Germany was 'finished'.
A land invasion or conventional bombing of Japan with no A-bombs dropped would be similar.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 Continued... You make me Laugh so hard with the GOOD GUYS and BAD GUYS bullshit, are you from TEXAS? Because you sound like a BRAINWASHED Cowboy, NEWSFLASH, there are no good guys or bad guys in war, war is hell, plain and simple, the sooner you get over your American flag waving Blinkers, the more you will realize that the U.S. is not a SAINT, far from it. Yeah, the good guys put Japanese Americans in concentration camps in WW2, sold their property without their consent, LOL!!
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
You stupid cunt. I'm an Englishman. I'm not American you dopey fucker.
The Nazi regime were the BAD guys. This isn't opinion. It's FACT.
Trying to purposely eradicate all the Jews in Europe was not a 'good' thing. It was a 'bad' thing, you absolutely idiotic fool. There is not even a debate about this out in the real world.
Nazis = bad.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
""Yeah, the good guys put Japanese Americans in concentration camps in WW2""
And the Nazis KILLED those in concentration camps and the Japanese STARVED and tortured their prisoners to death.
The Japanese BUTCHERED over 10 million Chinese from 1937, mostly civilians. Did you know that?
No bad guys and good guys? Get the fuck outta here and grow the fuck up, sonny. What are you, some dopey college kid with no real grasp of the world?
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 Let me illuminate your Idiotic mind, you stupid CUNT, the reason why Japan attacked the U.S., Pearl Harbour was because the U.S. imposed sanctions and froze Japanese assets in U.S., that's pretty much a declaration of war you stupid cunt, when you push someone into a corner their gonna strike back you Anglo-Saxon Prick, the Japs were a challenge to U.S. supremacy in the Pacific and Asia, the U.S. lost all rights to innocence when they passed sanctions to curtail Japanese power!!
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
LOL, except the Japanese didn't just attack and invade American territory. They also did the same to the CHINESE and the DUTCH etc etc.
The Japs brutalised Chinese civilians for as decade and that had nothing to do with the USA.
The Rape of Nanking was pure Japanese barbarity you stupid commie cunt.
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@LaughingGravy31 Your quote "except the Japanese didn't just attack and invade American territory. They also did the same to the Chinese" That's the whole point you stupid Brit-POP CUNT, what gives the U.S. the fucking right to get involved in matters between the Japs and the Chinese? Answer NOTHING, the U.S. and Britain like to stick their Holier Than Thou Noses in other peoples business when they feel that other EMPIRES (JAP) might be more powerful then their BRIT and U.S.A EMPIRES interests
hailherrosner 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
Just fuck off and die you stupid commie cunt.
Canada would be ashamed of you if they ever found out they were harbouring filthy commie scum like you.
Best for the world if you just kill yourself now .
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
@hailherrosner
"" Brit-POP CUNT""
Brit-POP?
No kiddy.
Led Zeppelin are my band.
What has YOUR commie crap ever given the world?
LaughingGravy31 3 weeks ago
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gotmituns 3 months ago
@haiherosner
If Britain had lost in 1940 or 1941 then the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic, the Mediterranean, North Africa and Middle East. Turkey would likely have joined the Axis and that would have been another area of advance for Barbarossa.
Without Britain, strategically the Soviet Union would have been finished and the Axis would have got bigger and more powerful.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 keep sniffing glue dude. lol,..As early as 1940' the German casualties at sea were particularly heavy, with the sinking of one of the Kriegsmarine's two heavy cruisers, two of its six light cruisers, 10 of its 20 destroyers and six U-boats. Pls explanin how the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic when they couldn't even control the english channel on a sunny calm day on holiday.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
@fluffy1931
Because the Royal Navy stopped them.
I said IF BRITAIN was out of the war/defeated.
Please pay attention.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 "If Britain had lost in 1940 or 1941 then the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic,.." Your quote from your post, dude. The German navy in Jun of 1940 lost half it's surface fleet and got 'cockblocked' in Norway. Without Britain Germany navy would still be a puny two pocket battleships, two heavy cruisers, six light cruisers, 20 destroyers, 57 operational u-boats. pls keep sniffing glue if you think with a force as tiny as this could control the Atlantic.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
@fluffy1931
So who WOULD have controlled the Atlantic then if Britain was out of it?
Without Britain the German U-boats alone could have controlled the Atlantic. They decimated British shipping as it was. The U-Boats sunk 11 million tons of British shipping. Germany would only have gotten stronger in the Atlantic if the Royal Navy were no longer a threat.
Then add the Italian navy and yep, the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic for sure without Britain in the war.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31lol,... how many stupid pills did you take today.
In Dec 1932, the Polish Cipher Bureau first broke Germany's military Enigma ciphers ( German Naval Code ) on July 25 1939, the Poles gave Enigma-decryption techniques and equipment to French and British military intelligence. Allied codebreakers from then on were able to decrypt german naval codes & messages before even the U-boat commanders recieved them and intercept german U-boats in the Atlantic.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
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@fluffy1931
LMAO, the Enigma code breakers didn't prevent 11 million tons of British shipping being sunk during WW2.
An Enigma code breaker sitting on his arse in Bletchley Park can't stop a German U-boat's torpedo you dopey fvcker.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@fluffy1931
The Axis LOST nearly 800 U-boats in total during WW2.
If Britain was out of the war in 1940/41 then they WOULDN'T have lost 800 U-boats.
Why don't YOU keep sniffing that glue of yours if you don't think the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic if not for Britain.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 hey dumbfuck Germany did not have 800 U-boats in 1940' or 1941' or anytime during ww2. The 800 lost U-boats was over the entire period of 1939-1945' ( six years ).
In begining of ww2 Germany had a grand total of just 56 U-boats, with only 46 of them operational.
German U-boats were used primarily against allied shipping convoys and never controled any of the Atlantic.
If Britain was out of the war in 1940/1941 the US Navy would still be the largest navy on the planet.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
@fluffy1931
You tool.
I'm not talking about 1940 or 1941. I said if Britain had been out of the war in by 1940 or 1941 then the Axis would have ended up controlling all of Europe, the Med, the Atlantic (at least the eastern portion of it) and strategically it would have been curtains for the Soviets.
Most likely other nations like Turkey would have joined the Axis.
You can't even comprehend what I'm arguing.
I'm talking about the FOLLOWING YEARS. Doh. The Axis would have grown stronger.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 what part of the following does your brain not process-
In begining of ww2 1939' Germany had a grand total of just 56 U-boats, with only 46 of them operational .
On top of that Germany by Jun 1940' already had lost half it's surface fleet in Norway.
With the German naval code and enigma cipher machine in allied hands by 1939' the german navys future operations specifically the U-boat communications would allow the allies to intercept U-boats.
In FOLLOWING YEARS.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
@fluffy1931
Who is talking about the 'beginning' of WW2?
What part of ""If Britain had lost in 1940 or 1941" aren't you comprehending? I'm talking about a scenarion where Britain loses and the Axis grow stronger.
If Britain had lost the war or been nullified as a threat in 1940/41 then the Axis would have GROWN in strength and ADDED to their naval capacity. There would be the Italian Navy as well.
The Axis would have DEFINITELY controlled the eastern Atlantic at least and ALL of the Med.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 lol,..ww2 started in 1939' dumbfuck with the German invasion of Poland. Nothing to do with Britain they didn't lift a finger. The Germans despite your senario still has puny navy a measly 56 u-boats only 46 of them are operational it's naval codes 'enigma' machine has already been handed over to the allies as early as 1939'( US & former U.K.Commonwealth).
lol,..Italian navy spent most of ww2 at anchor or sunk in port they had no radar, rarely went to sea.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
@fluffy1931
""lol,..ww2 started in 1939' dumbfuck with the German invasion of Poland. Nothing to do with Britain they didn't lift a finger.""
Really? The first U-boat sunk by the British was in September 1939, you ignorant tool.
There was a sea war going on right from September 1939.
It wasn't Britain's fault they didn't have a big enough or powerful enough army to deal with the Germans but at least they declared war on Germany and didn't ignore it or join them like most other countries.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@fluffy1931
""lol,..Italian navy spent most of ww2 at anchor or sunk in port they had no radar, rarely went to sea.""
Incorrect. In fact the Italian Navy played a part in the Battle of The Atlantic. The Regia Marina was based in Bordeaux and they even had submarines employed in the Atlantic (over 30 submarines), sinking over 100 allied ships, totalling half a million tons.
You really are ignorant, aren't you?
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31" Incorrect. In fact the Italian Navy played a part in the Battle of The Atlantic. The Regia Marina was based in Bordeaux and they even had submarines employed in the Atlantic (over 30 submarines), sinking over 100 allied ships, totalling half a million tons."
lol,.. The US alone in 1943' produced approx. eleven and half million tons of shipping. ( 11,448,360 tons )
fluffy1931 2 months ago
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@fluffy1931
""lol,.. The US alone in 1943' produced approx. eleven and half million tons of shipping.""
And had to fight a war against Japan in the Pacific and couldn't have done much in the eastern Atlantic without the Royal Navy.
The AXIS would have controlled the eastern Atlantic at least without Great Britain still in the war and there wouldn't have been much the Americans could have done in the eastern Atlantic and certainly nothing in the Med or North Africa.Britain's role was crucial.
LaughingGravy31 1 month ago
@fluffy1931
You never explained to me how a code breaker sitting on his arse in Bletchley Park can managed to stop a German U-boat torpedo some 1,000 miles away. Please tell me how this is possible.
And please tell me how the Germans managed to sink 11 million tons of British shipping, despite these 'code breakers'???
Code breakers? Code breakers? They didn't even know the Battle of The Bulge was going to happen. LOL.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 lol, German U-boats in the Atlantic recieved encrypted instructions & directions by wireless communications at sea from europe regarding the route of allied convoys. The allies intercepted these encrypted instructions through a captured enigma machine & codebooks - all this was run through Bletchley Park & the decoded messages (intelligence) was called ( Ultra ) allied convoys at sea could be re-directed away from likely u-boat locations & routes.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
@fluffy1931
The Enigma code breakers did NOT stop German U-boats from sinking allied ships. What part of that can't you grasp?
And what point are you trying to make anyway? We are talking about a scenario where Britain is out of the war or defeated.
Can't you grasp that concept?
WW2 was ultimately won in part because Britain was not defeated and was still in the fight.
If Britain had lost in 1940/41 then WW2 would likely have ended very differently. This is the point I am making.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 again, dumbfuck. Enigma ( naval ) type allowed the majority of allied shipping to be redirected away from german u-boats. The german U-boats sunk too little tonnage despite your fantasy.
Production figures are not that easy to find but a few one
Canada : produced 354 cargo ships of 10000 tons.
USA: in 1943 alone produced: 11448360 tons of ships.
USA : from 1939-1945: 33993230 tons of ships.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
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@fluffy1931
The Germans sunk 14 million tons of shipping during WW2.
The Enigma code breakers did NOT stop the Germans from sinking 14 million tons of shipping and almost 4,000 vessels.
LOL.
LaughingGravy31 1 month ago
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@fluffy1931
""despite your fantasy""
What 'fantasy'?
It's not a 'fantasy' to state that if Britain was out of the war by 1940/41 then the Axis would have grown stronger and would have dominated the Med, North Africa/Middle East and the eastern Atlantic.
It's fvcking clear logic, you idiot.
No Britain = a STRONGER Axis.
With Britain out of the war the USA could have done fvck all alone from 3,000 miles away. The Soviets would likely have lost.
Doh!
LaughingGravy31 1 month ago
@fluffy1931 Do you have any idea how an enigma machine works? The rotors are changed every day. yes, the Allies had captured enigma machines, but once the germans suspected the breach, they went to a 4 rotor system and bletchley park fell silent for a period of months in 1943. The keys are only good for so long, after that, you cant break the code anymore.
akulaknight 1 month ago
@akulaknight lol,. longest "darkness" period German Navy's Enigma machine, which could not be deciphered for 4 years btwn 1937-1941.
..,and yes those new Enigma (TRITON), upgraded Enigma machines
On Oct 30,1942 crewmen from HMS Petard salvaged Enigma material from a foundering U-559. This material allowed the codebreakers to break TRITON - a feat credited to Alan Turing. By Dec1942, Enigma decrypts were again disclosing U-patrol positions, and shipping losses declined dramatically once more.
fluffy1931 1 month ago
@akulaknight Feb 2 1942, the Kriegsmarine (German Navy) suddenly introduced a new version of the Enigma machine. The M4 used exclusively by the U-Boot division of the German Navy had 4 wheels instead of the usual 3.
fluffy1931 1 month ago
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@fluffy1931
You still can't comprehend my point, can you?
I'm talking about scenario with Britain/The Royal Navy not being in the war. Can't you grasp that simple concept?
LaughingGravy31 1 month ago
@LaughingGravy31 the german U-boats enjoyed 2 periods of success.
During the second happy time, Axis submarines sank 609 ships totaling 3.1 million tons for the loss of only 22 U-boats. This was roughly one quarter of all shipping sunk by U-boats during the entire Second World War.
Between Sept'42 and May 1945 some 43,526 allied ships ploughed the North Atlantic shipping lanes. The U-Boats sent some 272 to a watery grave. That left 99.4% afloat and reaching their destinations intact.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
@fluffy1931
You didn't even know the Italian Regia Marina had over 30 subs in the Atlantic, did you?
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@LaughingGravy31 lol,..google 'Battle of Taranto' Regia Marina 'pwnd' by ww1 era biplanes.
fluffy1931 2 months ago
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@fluffy1931
""With the German naval code and enigma cipher machine in allied hands by 1939' the german navys future operations specifically the U-boat communications would allow the allies to intercept U-boats.""
Haha, the Germans were able to sink ELEVEN MILLION TONS of British shipping despite the Enigma code breakers. The code breakers did NOT stop the Germans from sinking nearly 4,000 British vessels.
Did they?
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
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@fluffy1931
And by the way, with no Britain in the war, what the fvck could the US navy had done in the Atlantic? Not very much, especially in the eastern part of the Atlantic.
The Axis would have controlled that.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
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"" If Britain was out of the war in 1940/1941 the US Navy would still be the largest navy on the planet.""
Th US had to fight a war in the Pacific against Japan you idiot.
The is no way the US Navy could have done much in the Atlantic without the Royal Navy and while fighting a massive sea war in the Pacific.
Without the British, the Axis would have controlled the Atlantic, at least the eastern Atlantic and ALL of the Med.
Axis planes would also have had a free run from the continent.
LaughingGravy31 2 months ago
@haiherosner Exactly opposite was true! "On 14 December, Franz Halder and Günther von Kluge finally gave permission for a limited withdrawal to the west of the Oka river, without Hitler's approval". Hitler interfered only on Dec 20 when danger of encirclement passed.
"Despite the Soviets' best efforts, the Luftwaffe had contributed enormously to the survival of Army Group Center. Between the 17 December and 22 December the Luftwaffe destroyed 299 motor vehicles and 23 tanks.
ssmusic214 5 months ago
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@haiherosner
""by 1943 Russians were irritated by allies, when will you attack?""
And what were the Soviets doing in 1940 and early 1941? Being friends with Hitler and drinking vodka with him.
What did Soviet Union offer during the Battle of Britain and the Blitz? A big fat NOTHING. The Soviets were smiling and laughing when it looked that Nazi Germany was about to invade Britain.
LaughingGravy31 4 months ago
TIGER II AND MAUS TANK FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
huzaifah971 5 months ago
I still don't trust Germans...I never will...
SoCalDualSport 5 months ago
@SoCalDualSport Gimme at least one reason? U r weird...
PowderOnTop 5 months ago
@PowderOnTop They are the same people. Watch them.
SoCalDualSport 5 months ago
@SoCalDualSport
Do we scare you? We will rise again, hahaha.
MisterKillerkopf 5 months ago
@MisterKillerkopf aaaahhhhhh krauts!
SoCalDualSport 5 months ago
@SoCalDualSport Did you ever meet a german? Don't think so - then you'll get that they're definetely NOT the same...
PowderOnTop 5 months ago
@PowderOnTop Yes, I have met germans before. Quit tryin to sell me on germans. I don't like them. Get over it. I also don't like midgets.
SoCalDualSport 5 months ago
@SoCalDualSport I feel sorry for your sad, boring n frustrating life... Have nice day.
PowderOnTop 5 months ago
@PowderOnTop I haven't offended you, have I? Are you a midget german?
SoCalDualSport 5 months ago
@SoCalDualSport Nope - learned my lesson. For sure i'll not try to argue with ignorant people again.. my bad!
PowderOnTop 5 months ago
I always wanted to know how a so heavy thing could do a flip
Outchwork 5 months ago
in germany production of tanks were turned over to private manufactures in the usa tanks were produced in automotive factories. the complex design of most german tanks was also a drawback as was the time to produce just one tiger tank 300,000 man hours for just one tiger.german tanks were great machines.but the germans should have stuck to a simple design and produce in large numbers the pz 4 was a balanced tank that would be my first choice
crystalandjoel123 6 months ago
@crystalandjoel123
they mass produced panzer IV between 1943/44 the panzer IV chassis were mass produced and it was used for dozens of designs.
Panzer IV was the backbone of panzer divisions
In 1943 3000 panzer IV and 1768 PANTHERS and 1335 TIGERS were produced in germany.
The chassis of panzer IV were used to JAGDPANZER IV,NASHORN(tank destroyer), STUG IV assault gun, HUMMEL and BRUMMBAR were 150mm howitzer(self propelled gun).
More than 10500 panzer IV chassis were built during war
MrBobe9 6 months ago
@gtk4158a
Why must people talk about something they have no idea ??????? -.-
MultiTobaK 6 months ago
@gtk4158a stupid dumbhead, allied tanks were just as expensive, the germans were lonely, and forced to produce differant stuff (fighters vessels AA guns other tanks) if they were capeble they wouldve produced them in thousands, what an entire countrys economy couldnt afford a tank? IS2's were more expensive and they got massively fielded, why? russia is a big country that kills its massive poopulace for money and production. get it?
dividednation44 7 months ago
@dividednation44 Nonsense! stupid dumbhead are YOU!
Shermans $33,500, T-34 135,000 rubles IS-2 230000 Rubles, Panther 117,100 Reichmarks. Tiger I-II 250,800 - 800,000 RM Allied tanks were incomparably cheaper and easier to produce.
"Germany never approached the efficiency of Allied manufacturing during World War II.[17]"
ssmusic214 6 months ago
@ssmusic214 yeah but why germany made them in smaller numbers? because they had a poor economy and they were on their own, the T34 was historys 2nd most produced tank because russia is a gigantic rich country you idiot it depends on the country not the tanks price thats called common sense btw even the luftwaffe was small despite not-so-expensive planes were produced why? as i said earlier germany is a lonely small country not a big, rich one. USE YOUR BRAIN.
dividednation44 6 months ago
@dividednation44 Brainless Idiot without a clue! USSR was broke and starving for most of it's history! 50 000 T-34s were produced because it was SIMPLE DESIGN easy to produce.
And Germans produced so little because Hitler was totally incompetent amateur obsessed with creating futuristic "super weapons", who wasted his country scarce resourced on expensive useless toys: Tigers, Me-262, Me-163, V-2, Bismark, Tirpitz......
ssmusic214 6 months ago
@ssmusic214
tigers useless? i´d say they were cost effective from time to time :p
olentattimies 6 months ago
@olentattimies No they weren't. It took 350 000 man hours to produce a single Tiger. Less than 1800 Tigers and King Tigers were produced. Many never made it to battlefield due to huge mechanical and logistical problems. 99% WWII of fighting men never got to see a Tiger. Their effect in overall war effort was negligible.
ssmusic214 6 months ago
@ssmusic214
what could have they done then ?
no light tank could compete with t-34
olentattimies 6 months ago
@olentattimies Panther could and did. Stukas armed with 37mm cannons destroyed more T-34s than Tigers. So did StuG III and IV.
However on the big picture there was NOTHING Germany could do to outproduce USA, UK and USSR combined.
ssmusic214 6 months ago
@ssmusic214
but panthers could easily get destroyed by flanking t-34´s and possibly even shermans
and panthers had more problems with their treads than tigers, that wasnt very good thing in russia
olentattimies 6 months ago
@olentattimies Tigers were heavily depended on the terrain and the ground. They performed well only in the South of Russia. 1st use of Tigers ever was near Leningrad in 1942. Total disaster! All got stuck in the mud and lost. 1 captured in working condition. Germans never used Tigers in the Northern Parts of Russia again.
ssmusic214 6 months ago
On the Porche turret germany had fast firing artillery!!!
They had added an 101mm gun, which could fire 4 rounds in 3.05 sec's...
And it whas possible to use emergency power called NOT-MACHT,
and it made it possible to drive 10min long with a speed of 70km/h (((43mile/h)))
But it came to late, because germany was affraid that the allies would discover this,
cause then the allies would have put it on theyr tanks to!!!!!
Weibkoln 7 months ago
@Weibkoln 101mm gun, which could fire 4 rounds in 3.05 sec's... ??????
How is it physically possible?
The barrel would melt! No gun it the world can dissipate such amount of heat!
ssmusic214 7 months ago
@ssmusic214
It really could...
They used some kind of new explosive, (((some kind of gas))), & and there whas somekind of foam to kill the vlames.... They also used it on rocketfighters,..
btw... I dont really know how they called the explosive's nor gun...
but they really could!!!
Weibkoln 7 months ago
@ssmusic214
You know, FOAM almost the same as which firefighters use!!!!!
Weibkoln 7 months ago
@ssmusic214
btw...they managed it to make metal which could resist intense heat...
ask the USA...
after the war the allies gettered all the vintages from germany...
also this metal, they were not imidiatly using this, because there was something in the metal which the USA used as explosive... so they first thought that it was a trick!!!
Weibkoln 7 months ago