Health Care Reform Ad #2

[kcsorci]

@IssuesAndJustice WTH? Abortions are performed by Medical Doctors. Further, only 3% of Planned Parenthood's services are abortion RELATED. And if you actually believe that I'm going to plan a meet & greet with some anonymous poster on youtube who doesn't appear to value the lives of women merely because they have the biological capacity to become pregnant against their will, you are out of your bloody mind. If you're interested in debate using more than 500 characters maybe we could use a blog?

[LiveActionFilms]

"Abortions are performed by Medical Doctors"

--And many non-doctors in many states. Those are facts. It is pointless for me to debate with someone who doesn't accept facts.

if there was a debate it would be setup formally at a university. you can just dance around anything I say here but with an audience & videotape, you will not be compelled to say lies. I live in CA. UC Berkley may be a good campus. I can also find a respected pro-life group to debate u too.

[kcsorci]

@LiveActionFilms While it is arguable that advanced practice clinicians (including PA's, NP's & CNM's) are certainly qualified to perform first trimester abortions, the efforts to provide this care are blocked in many States by outdated laws, restrictive regulations, lack of clinical training opportunities, professional turf battles, etc. Despite studies done in '86, '04 & '06 whch found comparable rates of safety between physicians & PA's / NP's.

[kcsorci]

@LiveActionFilms Also, out of curiousity, why do you post under two names @IssuesAndJustice and also @LiveActionFilms?

I've not "dance[d] around" anything you've written... merely because you don't like my retorts does not mean they don't exist. I'm in NY so Berkley is probably not going to work for me.

PS why are you opposed to using the written word in order to make your point?

[kcsorci]

@IssuesAndJustice It is most definitely NOT a medical procedure (feel free to search any medical text!) What was banned by essentially allowing Legislatures NOT medical doctors to make our medical decisions, was a vague description which included the IDX procedure. Now, thanks to this ban, doctors are not able to perform the safest, most appropriate medical procedure NOT based on medical facts, but on ideology. & womens health suffers: research Tammy Watts, Viki Wilson, Becky Bruce, Becky Bruce

[IssuesAndJustice]

These are the facts:

Planned Parenthood doesn't believes that all living humans have the right to live.

They support partial-birth abortion

Planned Parenthood is the largest abortion group in the country

[kcsorci]

@IssuesAndJustice There is no such thing as "partial birth abortion." Further, Planned Parenthood supports whatever medical procedure a MEDICAL DOCTOR believes is the safest & most appropriate in any given situation. They do not support our legislatures making important, life-saving, medical decisions in lieu of Medical Doctors (particularly when these procedures can effect a woman's future fertility.) Lastly, it is an established fact that only 3% of PP's svs are abortion-related.

[IssuesAndJustice]

Planned Parenthood is pro-abortion. That is why they are pushing taxpayer funding of abortion so hard in this new health care bill that costs 1 trillion and does nothing to address health care system inefficiencies or costs.

[kcsorci]

@IssuesAndJustice Planned parenthood is "pro" whatever choice the pregnant woman makes. That is why they have prenatal programs (which special programs for teens) and programs for women who want to become pregnant, to make sure that they have the healthiest pregnancy/child-birthing experience. Despite your hyperbole, they've nothing to do with our current health-care crisis.

[IssuesAndJustice]

Of course Planned Parenthood is pro-abortion. Did you hear the testimony of former Planned Parenthood director Abby Johnson?

Why does Planned Parenthood advocate so hard for abortion to be introduced into other countries around the world?

What has Planned Parenthood does to stop forced abortions in China?

You should search:

Sexual Abuse of 13-Year-Old is No Problem to Indianapolis Planned Parenthood

[kcsorci]

@IssuesAndJustice Again, slower this time. Planned Parenthood. is. pro. whatever-the-pregnant-woman. decides. is. best. for. her. Period. 3% of Planned Parenthoods services are abortion services. Which means that 97% of services Planned Parenthood provides are reproductive & sexual health care services which are not abortion.

PS that's like researching the myriad of sexual abuse cases by the Catholic priesthood & then making the claim that the Catholic Church is pro-molestation of children

[IssuesAndJustice]

Planned Parenthood is against human rights. They don't believe that all living humans have the right to live.

They even support partial-birth abortion. That is a documented fact.

As for the 3% stat. Planned Parenthood is the LARGEST abortion group in the country. They did 305,000+ in the last year they reported.

If PP cared about sexual abuse reporting then why haven't they opened a national investigation or produced public numbers that show they are reporting properly?

[kcsorci]

@IssuesAndJustice Planned Parenthood supports human rights. They believe that all people are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. Further, it is fairly easy to research the stats to find that 97% of svs Planned Parenthood provides are reproductive & sexual health care services which are not abortion. Despite your hyperbole, only 3% of their svs are abortion related; that's the facts.

[IssuesAndJustice]

Why didn't you address any of my points but instead just repeated yourself?

[kcsorci]

@IssuesAndJustice You show me a valid point and I'll present a retort, eh? So far you have only spewed half-truths and misinformation and that has never been an effective way of making ones point, eh? Certainly you may choose to ignore the fact that PP does support human rights (that all people are born free & equal in dignity & rights) and that only 3% of PP svs are abortion related, but your denial of the facts will not make them any less factual.

[IssuesAndJustice]

Sure only 3% of services are abortion when you count giving out a single condom as a service. It is a deceptive way to look at the numbers. It is a fact that over 125,000,000 in revenue comes to Planned Parenthood directly from abortions. That is about 33% of service revenue and over 10% of overall revenue.

[Momsincharge]

Most Americans are for Health Care Reform. My Health Insurance provider is sponsoring telecasting High School Football games in my area. I can't figure out how that is contributing to my good health but I have no say in that.

Actually today we don't have many choices do we really?

[crseman]

Information which has objective reality..Look at an Ultrasound. There can't be disupute whether there is a child living within. Reality shows that the pre born child is a child. There can be no argument to oppose that. I have taken great care to write what I mean, children are children;whether in the womb or out. I have referenced my stats in previous posts. I could not be more on topic than to include all children when discussing children, including those who haven't reached a certain age.

[kcsorci]

An ultrasound? WTH? There is no dispute about what the stages of pregnancy are... it's basic biology, buddy. Children are children, zygotes are zygotes. So, what is your point, exactly? Clearly you are confused; perhaps you should visit the sites I've listed (including the NIH website & the US National Library of Medicine to find that my stats regarding cause(s) of death for children are unquestionably accurate. Nothing to dispute, dear. You ought to work on that whole "fact" thing.

[crseman]

Basic biology does nothing to dismiss my assertions. Children are children and zygotes are children. You, in your humaness were once a zygote. When discussing death rates of children, abortion trumps them all. That was my point.  There is nothing that can dispute that.

[kcsorci]

Oh, is that so? Please feel free to grace us with the biology text which claims that "zygotes are children," that should clear up this whole debate super fast, eh? And I'm telling you, any person can research the leading cause of death of children and find the answer: accidents. That happens to dispute your opinions quite well, actually.

[crseman]

But in fact children are zygotes and zygotes are children. Websters dictionary defines a child as "an unborn offspring". A human zygote carries the full compliment of DNA that makes that zygote a living human. Yes, that human is very different looking, and functioning than he or she will be a week later, or a day later or 9 months later. If the Zygote is not a human being then what is it, a blob?...that is of course an uneducated view,...a fish?

[crseman]

when is the last time you saw a woman give birth to a blue gill? The issue here is really about planned parenthood and the killing of very small, and beautiful human beings. Call them zygotes or fetuses or preborn babies, they are all human and therefore deserving of protection. The right to live supercedes another's "right" to

not be inconvenienced, or "right" to kill. Any statistics that deal w causes of death in CHILDREN should and ought to include the preborn children. If the stats

[crseman]

If the stats do not include the preborn, then whoever is compiling the stats does NOT understand basic reproductive biology, and if they do understand it but choose to disregard preborn children because they are not worthy of any regard, then that person lacks a sense of what justice and morality really are. How sad for that person. 1.2 million deaths per year in "our" abortion clinics! The last 3 entries are from the spouse (physician) of crseman. Thank you kcs for the debate...peace be w/you.

[kcsorci]

That's rich, so the top leaders in health care & concerns in the world do not understand basic biology... but *you* do, eh? Perhaps you should call the Word Health Organization STAT and educate them with this empirical information which even the brightest scientists have missed. Wow, if I were you, I wouldn't just sit around trolling youtube with such a breakthrough, I'd be contacting the proper authorities post-haste, *Doctor*.

[crseman]

To Kcs, I'm sorry that you have to be sarcastic to state your opinion. This debate is not really very helpful because you come to it w a spirit of anger and hatred, as your many sarcastic comments reveal so clearly. My wife and I will pray for your conversion. Peace be with you.

[kcsorci]

Oh yes, because when you asked if women were giving birth to blue gills you weren't being sarcastic in the least. And last I checked sarcasm did not = anger and/or hatred; if it did, you would, in fact, be guilty of expressing both on several occasions during this debate. I will continue to pray for all people to have empathy, humility and love when discussing the lives any person (in this case, discussing the lives of these women and their families) only then will peace be possible. God Bless!

[kcsorci]

Listen man, if you do not even note the differences between species, how do you expect anyone to trust your judgment when it comes to any other topic? There is no "issue" here other than your emotive outbursts. Planned Parenthood has and will continue to provide necessary health-care services for women. I am particularly happy with their teen centered prenatal clinics; helping young women have a healthy pregnancy, labor/childbirth and healthy newborns! God Bless those people.

[kcsorci]

Check any medical dictionary & you will find that the zygote is the diploid cell formed by the union of two gametes. Merely because you have deluded yourself into believing that women have joyful toddlers frolicking about their insides does not compel rational people to agree.

psst... if the the gametes are from people you'd' have a human zygote, if the gametes were from some species of fish, you'd have a fish zygote. It's really very simple, not sure why you're so confused by this stuff

[smaakaker]

iI a zygote is "an unborn offspring" then what is a fetus? Are they the same? If they are, then why put different names on them?

[kcsorci]

@smaakaker A zygote is the cell formed by the union of two gametes (in people, it would be the human sperm & human ova) Why put different names on any other different thing? Why is a tree not an acorn? Why is a seed not a flower? Seems an odd question, eh?

[crseman]

how misleading that PP should show families with children. they are the leading cause of the death of children in this country, its time to bring to light what the health care plan really means, and call a spade a spade. do not allow more killing of pre born children and more damage to their mothers suffering through abortion. this is deception.

[kcsorci]

Actually, the leading cause of death of children are accidents (including drowning, fire, falls, poisoning and number 1: automobile.) Further, Planned Parenthood provides HIV testing, STD testing & treatment, pap tests, breast exams, fibroid care, pregnancy planning & fertility awareness education, birth control, pregnancy testing, emergency contraception, abortion services & referrals, prenatal care, childbirth classes, postpartum exams & care, adoption services & referrals, etc.

[crseman]

This will probably be a long posting;I want to be sure to clarify. First of all, I am specifically focusing on young children who are affected by abortion when reporting my statistics; not children of all ages. To do so would distort the true population of the group of children which are the focus of my post. I am specifically going to quote statistics affecting children age pre born to age 1 at first. That being said...The CDC tracks mortality rates. The latest table I could find from 2006.

[crseman]

continuing,..Looking directly to the CDC for automoblie accident statistics and expanding the age to include all those aged 14 and younger, the number from 2008 is 968. Remember, that is expanding the age group to age 14 and again not counting pre born children.

I will now cite two organizations that track abortions, the CDC and the alan guttmacher, by no means a prolife organization. The CDC tracks voluntary reporting and does not count the states of CA, LA, and NH.......

[crseman]

The number of abortions in 2005 is

820,151 (CDC) while Guttmacher reports 1.21million in the same year. CDC depends on voluntary self report, while Guttmacher gets statistics from abortionists themselves. There is simply no comparison. Nothing has killed more children than abortion, no matter how you slice it. That is a plain and simple fact that is researched and recorded. As far as the good programs that planned parenthood offers; you can't excuse evil for a few good deeds.

[crseman]

There are many county health clinics that offer women's health needs based on financial need at little or no cost, without using any money to kill babies. I have gathered my information directly from the Fed. government agency CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention), Allan Guttmacher site, and national right to life. Anyone wishing to check up on those statistics is most welcome. Now, we won't even go into the countless number of moms and dads that abortion has scarred forever.

[crseman]

Oops...Somehow One of my important postings didn't make it. Of children age under 1 not counting preborn, accidents including all those reasons cited by kcsorci account for 1,147 deaths. The total deaths for this age group is 28, 527 a year in 2006. Accidents are not the number one cause, but the 5th cause of death in this age group. This number represents children already born under the age of 1, not the pre born killed in the womb.

[kcsorci]

The fact (you know, information which has objective reality) is that no person (of any age) is killed whenever a woman opts to terminate her pregnancy. Certainly the human embryo or fetus is killed but nobody is disputing that. The person (you know, that mass which surrounds the uterus) is making the best, most responsible, moral choice for herself and her family. How you *feel* about abortion is irrelevant to these women. Period.

[kcsorci]

Please feel free to peruse the US National Library of Medicine & the National Institute of Health (updated 12/1/2008) and you will find that the information that I posted two days ago is absolutely accurate. When we are discussing the leading causes of death amongst children, lets at least stay on topic, shall we? IF you'd care to speak about abortion statistics, that's fabulous... just lets please not pretend those two subjects are even remotely the same.

[kcsorci]

Oh, I always thought that when speaking of children, one was actually speaking of "children" - perhaps you should take care to write what you mean next time, eh? Further, the stats I posted refer to "young children" so I'm not certain what you're taking issue with exactly. From birth through the first year of life, the top three causes of death are: SIDS, complications due to prematurity & genetic/developmental issues present at birth (this info comes from the National Institute of Health)