Fry and Hitchens Discussion 7/10 (Sound Fixed)

[044orange044]

I've wanted to see a video of this debate since I started listening but now I REALLY want one.

I'd just love to see Stephen's face when Christopher calls him "Sweetie"!

[Thayer79]

God... Erhem! I do not want to sound like a conspiracy theorist, BUT... if major democratic nations create hate speech laws to protect religions, then how are we to dissent religious take over of politics!!! Will we be doomed to theocracies? Or will it be short lived once Christians soon realize they can't talk shit about Muslims anymore?

[rdtcpsso]

Sweetie! Gasp.

[RhondaH]

I love it when Christopher starts sharing his knowledge of history.  Most folks have no idea of the history of religions. It is fascinating.

[TomfromExeter]

"Sweetie!"

Lol

[ESPSAlita]

All of this is very interesting but I think something that Fry and Hitchens don't seem to be aware of, is how radical and violent the evangelical Christian tradition in America has become. They're not really that different from radical muslims these days. Just watch "Jesus Camp". It really opens your eyes.

[ScarletandCreme32]

I think both Hitchens and Fry are very aware of exactly how radical Christianity in America is. However, such Christian morons are not as dangerous to society as Islam is because they do not have control of weapons that have the ability to kill millions. Nor do (at least those in the US) they commit acts of genocide upon people of other faiths.

[MrSalamander7]

That's true in America, but Christianity is extremely dangerous as far as the world is concerned. I site Joseph Kony and his foot-soldiers as an example.

[GaiusIuliusTaberna]

@MrSalamander7 I have trouble thinking of a clearer case for foreign intervention than in the person of Joseph Kony. He wants to be Jesus, personally I think we should do him a favor by crucifying him.

[bersa888]

Anytime there's indoctrination of the (very) young, we should be prepared for what the future may bring because of that... not all are psychologically strong, intellectually equipped or simply lucky to overcome such dangerous brain-washing.

[davenuge]

I don't think Islam is anywhere near as dangerous to my society (UK) as Christianity is. I also think that Christianity has done a lot of the damage it will do already and that Islam will never grow powerful enough to really affect my society.

[plimbuff]

You're obviously not familiar with Hitchen's work.

[cockohoop69]

@ESPSAlita Trust me Hitch is more than aware

[joejjohnston]

On other videos he does mention them. but, what separates the usa from most other countries Christopher mentions is, the fact that the US government doesn't officially support or oppose any religion.

[RagdollPhysics]

and yet the unofficial endorsment of christianity in the government of the USA's nation under god is so much influential.

[infectingthecrypts]

@joejjohnston True, but every election year we have to listen to a thousand "i'm proud of my christian faith" speeches because everyone has to prove they're christian or at least of some faith. Atheism has a stigma associated with it that basically makes us as bad as violent felons in the public's eyes. Proo: a poll showed that people are likely to vote for someone who is otherwise qualified as long as they are religious. Hell, homosexuals ranked almost 30% higher than atheists.

[joejjohnston]

I agree but I don't think Homosexuality should affect someones voting decision. If anything, i'm less like ly to vote for a religious person as such a dogmatism could be dangerous.

[infectingthecrypts]

I wasn't implying that homosexuality should affect them, I was just saying that to show how the public has a bias against us. Gays aren't even allowed to have the same rights as straight people (and most of the public doesn't think they should) and they're more likely to get elected than an atheist!

And I definately agree on not voting for the religious people (for the most part). Give me someone who leaves the dogma at church, though, and I'd vote for him/her.

[GaiusIuliusTaberna]

@ESPSAlita That may be, but in America we still don't have an established national church or blasphemy law... so always remember it could be worse, we could be the UK.

As I understand it appeasement to islamo fascism and the status of being a Christian nation is almost ubiquitous in Europe. American secularists take our first amendment for granted in that regard I think.

[RagdollPhysics]

Maybe what you say about the UK could be regarded as true historically but the UK no longer has blasphemy laws, and the established church of England is little more than a powerless historical relic now kept for tradition/practicalities sake like the royal family, those practicalities being that it provides a mechanism for anyone regardless of belief the ceremonial use of a parish church.

I'm a little confused by your comments, what is 'islamofascism' and how are European states appeasing it?

[GaiusIuliusTaberna]

I was referring to the Racial and Religious Hatred Act 2006. The confusion of religion with race and the censorship of religious criticism seems to me to disregard the principles of free speech.

As for Islamo fascism I mean the imposition of Islamic law onto people against their will. The idea that its ok for Muslim fathers to flog their daughters for showing their ankles in public because its their cultural tradition. Multiculturalism should never devolve into cultural relativism.

[Tossphate]

@GaiusIuliusTaberna Your coment is an absolute gem, and brilliantly put.

[colourmegone]

@RagdollPhysics The UK blasphemy laws were only repealed in 2008. The law enforcing the payment of the tithe (10% of gross produce) by farmers was in force until 1936. The CoE is still represented in the House of Lords and the Queen ("Gawd bless 'er"), the titular head of state, is also head of the CoE. State religion hasn't disappeared but is in slow retreat, as is religion all over the secular world, even in the US.

[MrKippers22]

It's called the English language. Please don't confuse this with other types of English spoken outside of England.

[Winamplama]

What's so funny about "the devil's avocado", that they have to go on about it? Seemed like a really weak joke the first time Stephen mentioned it.

[wmdip]

''...the great american experiment...''

¡Im loving it!

[Millsy12008]

rise up fellow athiests, no longer should we stand the oppression of the believers and there sicafant simpathisers

[Anysound89]

you know you are fighting humanity - we are all poisoned and you will not live the day where there will be the slightest change

[soulbiscuit]

Sounds a lot like what the religionists say. "We are all poisoned"?! What does that even mean?

[Nades129]

Let the world heal on its own...

let them slaughter each other...

There is no purpose, no fate, no greater tomorrow.

Everything will turn out fine

[megamarsvin]

So the rational should grant the irrational the freedom to blow us all to bits? I don't think so. They are not 'slaughtering each other', they're slaughtering anyone they can get their hands on.

[Nades129]

I know. but sadly, i have a nihilistic view that it will all work out in the end...

just survive.

if it doesnt work out, well at least we gave it a try..

and if another dark age come, well time will grant us another enlightenment

[megamarsvin]

Agreed :)

[athlete117]

No, no, you can't allow that sort of attitude to get the best of you. There is a good fight. It's the fight for secular humanism, don't let anybody else come and force their illiterate, intolerant views on you. Intolerance of intolerance and having the balls to stand up and tell these people why they're absolutely out of order and that you don't care whether they take offence or not.

[Nades129]

sorry. Pessimism has the best of me. But yeah, ur right about secular humanism. But sadly I dont think I'm fit enough to play as one.

I need to learn more.

[martiangrundy]

Not quite anyone they can get their hands on.

Just anyone who doesn't agree with them regarding their beliefs, and that includes those who generally believe a very similar thing, just a slightly different flavour.

I must admit I have changed my mind in the past two or three years, I was much more layed back, but now I can see how things are heading, and I'm not overly chuffed.

We need to oppose religion in every way that it tries to impose itself.

[Slabbers]

Most interesting to me is the way that Fry, a formidable and well informed intellect, adapts to a debate he clear wasn't as well prepared for as Hitchens. His remarkably cogent and sensible responses stand as admirable statements by themselves, even as Hitchens continues to test them. Hats off to Fry, let's see what the next segment brings...

[Narbacular420]

Listen to the introduction in part 1, that explains it all. there are no opposing opinions in this dicussion.

[LuckyLukarse1981]

Wasn't the Koran initially dictated by the Archangel Gabriel? Then followed by submissions from the 'devil'?

Wonder if the old or new has any devil passages? Could be a good way to invent another form of christendom, by saying the parts all the libs have problems with were in fact the work of satan. Be kinda hip until you have to re-invent it in another few hundred years :-P

[Valygarx]

I never thought i would say this, but Stephen Fry actually lost this debate in my opinion.

[Bryanrobsonsliver]

I didn't think there was any competition

[steekg]

It seems far more like a mutual discussion than a debate on two opposing opinions.

[tiove]

exactly!?!

[hayeder]

there was no competition, there were few if any contrasting views between the two. Hitchens seems slightly pugnacious and Fry sounds meek. if that is what you meant.

[LuckyLukarse1981]

If Fry had been on one of his manic streaks, Hitchens would have got steam rolled, if they had had a decently varied opinion...

"I'm on your side Christopher"...

[denial101]

It isn't a debate

[martiangrundy]

No Absolutely!!!

there is too much common ground.

But how enjoyable to hear two intellectuals (bumlick, creep crawl, No, but they are)like this, just having a chat?

[bluenoserob]

it is a debate. it just happens to be between two people who hold not dissimilar points of view.

[numberonenobody]

discussion, not debate. a debate would imply there being 2 opposing views. A disscusion is just another word for conversation which is what this is

[RanpatMcMurphy]

@Valygarx Agreed.